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Day Of The Lord

If "day" always means a 24 hour period, especially in Genesis 1, does this mean the Day of the Lord, spoken of throughout the Bible is itself only 24 hours?

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"I will die one day"- Warwick.

Is Warwick telling us he is going to die in 24 hours? Warwick keeps telling us "day means 24hrs when it is combined with a number".

Of course Warwick is telling us at some indefinite point in time, he will die (as we will all do). This is what David lamented when Saul was baying for his blood at 1 Sam.27:1. At some indefinite point in time, David believed Saul would kill him. The Hebrew for this indefinite point in time was 'echad yom', the same used at Genesis 1:5 ('first day').

Warwick's 24hr "rule" is obsolete. According to context, 'echad yom' is not arbitrarily a 24 hour period, as Warwick testifies above.
---David8318 on 2/24/15


Warwick said on 2/15/15: "day means 24hrs when it is combined with a number". Not so according to scriptures such as 1 Sam.27:1.

'And David said in his heart, I shall now perish one day ['echad yom': also Gen.1:5] by the hand of Saul' (KJV).

David did not expect to die in exactly 24 hours. David believed he may die at the hand of Saul any day from that point onward. Thus, according to context, 'echad yom' can cover an extended period of time. Even the Holman Bible renders 'echad yom' at 1 Sam.27:1 as "one of these days".

"Echad yom" ['one day': Gen.1:5 and 1Sam.27:1] is not arbitrarily a 24 hour day just because it is combined with a number!
---David8318 on 2/23/15


Warwick you are a good liar with much experience in promoting your brand of C & MA falsehoods.

The ProVeritate report does implicate your C & MA cult in occult practices of 'contemplative prayer' and other demonic, mystic practices such as 'journaling conversations' with "God".

You lie like your cult founding leader A Simpson, who made the false, unbiblical claims that "God dwells in the soul" and that "if we hush out every other sound, we can hear his still small voice".

You ask how does God communicate with JW's. It's called the Bible Warwick, something you need to start reading and stop following the words of Mr A Simpson and your occultist group the C & MA.
---David8318 on 2/22/15


Jerry6593, at least you now acknowledge your deliberate lying statement regarding day: "In Genesis, its a ~24 hour period".

You always knew you were lying. You always knew 'yom' does not always mean a 24 hour period in Genesis. Yet despite knowing you were lying, the insipid character you are means you have no compunction, and set out to deceive simply to promote your man made doctrines.

Where have I made the claim we are in a 1000yr Sabbath? Your lies know no bounds. You make falsehoods about God in insisting his 7th day of rest has ended when God has not yet declared it ended, and insist his days are 24 hours when there is no scripture to support your view!
---David8318 on 2/22/15


'Psalm 90:4 concerns God not man'- Warwick.

I know Warwick! Thats what I've been trying to tell you! Moses was wrting about Gods creative activity at Psalm 90. A 1000 years (to us) is "like a day" to God. Each creative period was "like a day" to God in that they had a beginning and an end but to man, they are immeasurable.

You fail to realise Ex.20:11 is instructing Israel how to structure their working week. They already knew how long a day was. They also knew Gods creative days were not the same length as mans. Moses knew a 1000 years is "like a day" to God.

Following you understanding of Ex.20:11 would mean the Israelites did not finish their first working day until after 1000 years had past!
---David8318 on 2/22/15




David, Psalm 90:4 concerns God not man. Moses did not say a thousand years in Gods sight are a day but "like a day." This corresponds to 2 Peter 3:8 where, to God a day is "like a thousand years" and a thousand years "like a day." Not a measure of time, but of eternality.

However Exodus ch. 20 is man-centred as is Genesis Ch.1, a record for man in man's terms. Or did God tell Himself not to commit adultery? Here God equates His 6-days of creation and 7th of rest with man's 6 days of work and his 7th of rest. If you are claiming the 7th day never ended then the Israelites haven't worked since then!
---Warwick on 2/21/15


David, as you repeatedly refuse to answer my questions regarding the Pro Veritate Report, and whether God speaks to man today.

You insinuated the Pro Veritate Report (which rightly denounced "contemplative prayer,") directed its comments at the C & MA church. You know the Report does no such thing, making you a serial liar.

You also refused to answer whether God speaks to man today. You claim your leaders speak on God's behalf therefore if man does not hear from God today they must be hearing from Satan! Now theres a good point.
---Warwick on 2/21/15


Samuel, you say: 'Then In Genesis 2 GOD blesses the Seventh day and makes it the Sabbath. Which Exodus says we are to keep'.

No, Ex.20:11 is not instructing Christians. Its an instruction to Israel. The Sabbath requirement was there among other things as a reminder for Israel of God's great sabbath resting.

The instruction for Christians regarding God's Sabbath resting is at Hebrews 4:9-10, 'So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His'.

Gods 7th day of rest "remains"... until God declares it finished as he did regarding the previous 6.
---David8318 on 2/22/15


David: I see that you have acknowledged your lies about my posts. But where did you get the ridiculous idea that we are in a 1000-year Sabbath? Certainly not from Scripture. That is the second time you have accused God of lying. (The first was when you claimed that His assertion of six days of creation is false.) Now you claim that His Commandment to keep the seventh day of the week holy is a lie. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you demean our Creator so?


---jerry6593 on 2/22/15


Jerry6593, you need to be reminded of the blog question posted by Cluny.

As above: If "day" always means a 24 hour period..." is the 'Day of the Lord' also 24 hours?

Is a Biblical "day" always 24 hours? You posted: "In Genesis, its a ~24 hour period". This is blatantly wrong and highly misleading given the use of "day" at Gen.2:4.

I replied to your falacious statement using my own words but also with the blog question in mind and replied you were making an erroneous statement that a Genesis "day" is always 24 hours.

If you didn't mean to imply "day" in Genesis is always 24 hours... then what did you mean!?
---David8318 on 2/21/15




Warwick writes: "God's word defines the 1st day of creation... describing the other 5 with the same formula"

The formula: God declared each day "good" and said "there came to be evening and... morning, a first, second, third (etc) day".

The elephant in the room which Warwick and other 24hour-day advoctes aviod is that the same formula has not been used for the "seventh day". Why not? Because God's 7th day of 'rest' has not yet ended.

That's why Paul in his day indicated God's "rest... remained" and encouraged Christians to 'enter that rest'- Heb.4:1-10. How could they if it ended 1000's years ago!?
---David8318 on 2/21/15


Genesis 1:13

And the evening and the morning were the third day.

So a evening and a morning were the third day. Just like today a period of dark followed by a period of light is a day. The phrase Evening and Morning kept being repeated to show each was a single day.

Then In Genesis 2 GOD blesses the Seventh day and makes it the Sabbath. Which Exodus says we are to keep.

Bud David you have to make it hundreds of years of darkness followed by hundreds of years of day to make it work. Then Humans would have to take off a 1,000 years to keep the Sabbath.

None of that works.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/21/15


Jerry you wrote: //Here are your exact words:

"You previously & erroneously claimed "day" in Genesis is ALWAYS 24 hours"
//

Yes jerry, as you say they are my words, not yours. I didn't say you used the word "always". I used the word "always" to describe your erroneous blanket statement regarding the use of the word 'day' ('yom'): "In Genesis, its a ~24 hour period".

You are wrong everytime because Gen.2:4 uses 'yom' to describe the whole of Gods creative activity, which was not a 24 hour period! Which ever way you twist and wriggle jerry, you are "always" wrong!

I think Abraham Lincoln had the likes of you in mind.
---David8318 on 2/21/15


Warwick, you wrote: 'If you want to say 6-days here [Exodus 20] is not six days as we live them today you have to make a Scriptural case for your contention...'.

Easy. Moses writing about creation at Psalm 90:4, "For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by".

Next, your post on "God heals unbelievers" thread (2/9/15): "Time was given to man (Genesis ch.1) who lives one day at a time, not to God who is eternal".

God is not teaching how long a day lasts at Ex.20:11. Israel knew as you know, "Time was given to man... not to God". Gods count of time is different to mans. I know that, you know that, so did Israel!
---David8318 on 2/21/15


David: //'I did not use the term "always"'- jerry6593.

I didn't say you did.//

Here are your exact words:

"You previously & erroneously claimed "day" in Genesis is ALWAYS 24 hours"

So, Davey Boy, were you lying then or are you lying now?

The fact of the matter is that your reasoning is vacuous. In fact Genesis does contain references to a day as a ~24 hr. period. God confirms this in Exo 20:11.

Abe Lincoln must have known someone like you when he wrote:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."-- Abraham Lincoln



---jerry6593 on 2/21/15


David, as Jerry has had to point out, he was discussing the meaning of day in Genesis 1 as it is Genesis 1:5 which defines one day "God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

if you claim "the first day" does not mean 24hr you need to submit Biblical and or grammatical proof. Otherwise -the first day, is just that the first ever time the earth completed one rotation in relation to a fixed light source. Just the way we have defined one day for millennia.
---Warwick on 2/20/15


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'I did not use the term "always"'- jerry6593.

I didn't say you did. You made a blanket statement regarding Genesis: "In all cases, the context defines the correct interpretation. In Genesis, its a ~24 hour period".

Your blanket statement, "In Genesis, its a ~24 hour period" is incorrect. Even if you belatedly meant "(in the context of Creation)", you're still wrong because of Gen.2:4!

So what you should have posted on 2/18/15 was: "In all cases, the context defines the correct interpretation. In Genesis (in the context of Creation), its [not] a ~24 hour period, [see Gen,2:4]".

Perhaps you should learn to write better comments!
---David8318 on 2/20/15


David, the bellowing from heaven is more likely WTS heavies commanding their slaves. BTW David you have also avoided explaining how God communicates with the WTS leaders. Don't be shy.

You brought up the socalled "ongoing" day without giving Biblical support for your view. I asked for this but as usual you ducked it.

Your 'evade the point' tactics are getting stale as we are talking primarily talking about the 6-days of creation however the 7th day Sabbath is of the same length(c24hrs) as Exodus 20:8-11 proves. However it is good to see that you now accept the ceration days are all c24hrs.

You wrote "The Israelites already knew their 'day' was 24 hours!' please tell me how they knew that if Adam didn't?
---Warwick on 2/20/15


'describing the other 5 with the same formula'- Warwick.

What about the 7th? All 6 creative days ended with the God declaring them as "good" and the expression 'evening, morning a 1st, 2nd 3rd... day' and so forth. This has not been said regarding the 7th day, meaning it is still ongoing. As the Bible says at Heb.4:9 there "remains" a sabbath resting for the people of God.

Unless Warwick has heard Gods voice bellowing from heaven stating 'there was evening and morning a 7th day', or heard voices in his head telling him the 7th day has ended?

You summed it up Warwick when you said: "Time was given to man (Genesis ch.1) who lives one day at a time, not to God who is eternal".
---David8318 on 2/20/15


David, you wrote "Neither do they hint God created man and woman in a 24 hour period!"

You are right. they don't, but God does, Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them..." If you want to say 6-days here is not six days as we live them today you have to make a Scriptural case for your contention or your idea is not based in Scripture.

However Matthew and Mark do say man was made at the "beginning" of the creation not after 42,000 years (as per WTS doctrine) which is more towards the end than the "beginning."
---Warwick on 2/20/15


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David: "You previously & erroneously claimed "day" in Genesis is always 24 hours"

That is an erroneous claim. I said that a day was ~24 hrs. in Genesis (in the context of Creation). I did not use the term "always". You need to read more carefully.

You, on the other hand, are calling God a liar in that you deny His handwritten evidence that he took 6 literal ~24 hr. days to create the heaven and the earth and commands us to keep the seventh literal ~24 hr. day holy. Again, maybe it's just your underdeveloped reading ability.



---jerry6593 on 2/20/15


When GOD gave the Ten Commandments He tied it in to the six days of creation.

If the days of creation were each thousands of years long. Then GOD lied in the Fourth Commandment. We also could not keep one day holy.

If a day is really 7,000 years long.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/20/15


David, you cannot deny God's word defines the 1st day of creation (Genesis 1:5), describing the other 5 with the same formula. The Holman Bible Dictionary says Genesis 1:5 defines 24hr day. Even the liberal (i.e. he does not Believe the Bible is from God) Professor of Hebrew James Barr of Oxford university says the writer/s of Genesis 1 meant it to be taken as 24hr days. The standard Hebrew lexicon says likewise.

Would anyone puzzle over your meaning if you said I am going away for 6-days? Your objection is artificial contradicted by Scripture, grammar, and logic.

You now agree there is nothing to support the WTS 7,000 year days doctrine! Likewise the millions/billions old earth. Timing is vital.
---Warwick on 2/19/15


StrongAxe, do you accept I don't use the term 6 solar days as you claimed?

Our days are c24hrs for that it the time our earth takes to complete one revolution in relation to a fixed light source. Do you say they weren't so in the past?

Ask again "Do you believe God could not, today, remove the sun and light the revolving earth with another light source continuing the 24hr day cycle?"

"Joshua's long day" is no ordinary day, that is why it is so described.

That Scripture says "the sun stood still' is the language of appearance. Today we say "sunrise" knowing it does not rise. God also knows the sun does not circle the earth.

Earth rotation speed measures our days.
---Warwick on 2/19/15


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David, you wrote "The Israelites already knew their "day" was 24 hours!' please tell me how they knew that if Adam didn't?
---Warwick on 2/19/15


'neither [Matthew or Mark?] even hints their creation was c42,000 after the beginning of creation '- Warwick.

Neither do they hint God created man and woman in a 24 hour period!

If each of the 6 creative days were 7000 years long (and there is nothing to say they were), then yes the first man and woman were created around 42000 years after the beginning of creation. But there is no reason to be dogmatic about how long the 6 creative days were, whether it took God 144 earth hours or 42000 earth years to create.

What is important is that it did happen, and that the 6 creative days reveal the order of events and what happened in each. Timing is not the issue.
---David8318 on 2/19/15


'God Himself wrote in stone that He took six literal ~24 hour days to create'- jerry6593.

Thats a load of old baloney! Exodus 20:11 does not say "24 hours"! Once again jerry you ignore context of Exodus 20. You and others are fixated about time. The Israelites already knew their "day" was 24 hours! God is telling them how to structure their woking week.

Charles Darwin has nothing to do with creation whether it took God 144 hours or eons of time.

You previously & erroneously claimed "day" in Genesis is always 24 hours, proved wrong by the use of "day" at Genesis 2:4 where "day" is used to sum up all the creative activity of God during the 6 creative days.
---David8318 on 2/19/15


Cliff, you have for years gone on an on about species. God did not create species, only "kinds." If you understood the difference you would stop mentioning "species", they didnt exist!

How many animals could Adam name in one minute is the question. If you understood Scripture, and the consequence of the curse you would know we are the end result of 6,000 years of this curse. We are riddled with curse related genetic diseases (c3,600) and are in all ways very inferior to Adam, physically and mentally. Even in my fallen state I could name many "kinds" of animals in a minute: dog, cat, cattle, elephant, horse, bird,...
---Warwick on 2/18/15


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Warwick:

Our days are 24 hours long, not because some cosmic 24-hour clock happens to say so, but because the relative position of the earth and sun say so. Earth's rotation speed is slowly changing, and so is the length of our days. Otherwise, "day" and "sun's position in the sky" would slowly slip out of sync. And you keep ignoring Joshua's Long Day. God stopped the sun in the sky so that the day would be longer. This SPECIFICALLY points to the sun being the measure of our current days, and NOT some independent 24-hour cosmic clockwork machinery.
---StrongAxe on 2/18/15


'Sure be interesting to see some evidence of their claims'- Trav.

I wouldn't hold your breath Trav. People such as Warwick are gullible enough to be led up the garden path by such cult leaders as A Simpson who make wild unscriptural claims such as being able to "hear Gods voice inside them if they hush out every other sound".

To weak minded ones like Warwick and Marc, the Bible is not enough for them or they can't understand it and they are easily led into occultism and demonism under a "Christian" camouflage in the form of mystic 'contemplative prayer' or 'soaking prayer'. They are wolves in sheeps clothing.

I can assure you we JW's are non-scary, friendly, Christian individuals.
---David8318 on 2/19/15


Let's get real! All this circumlocution and obfuscation over the length of a day in Genesis 1 is merely an attempt to justify your prophet Charles Darwin's claim that God's prophet Moses was wrong about the length of time it took God to create. God Himself wrote in stone that He took six literal ~24 hour days to create and commanded rest on the seventh (Exo 20:11). But you don't like that because it conflicts with Darwin and your pagan rest day.

There is no such thing as a solar day. The length is set by the earth's rotation - not the sun.

Man's taxonomy of "species" is not God's definition of "kinds". Thus arguments about naming them or cramming them all into the Ark are ridiculous.

---jerry6593 on 2/19/15


So Adam could not name all the species today in single day.

Correct. But did he name species or kinds. For instances all the different species of cows could be named cows. Wow it took so long to look and say cows!

Or look and say Birds.

People come up with way to say the Bible is wrong all the time by setting up their rules.

GOD is smarter then us. Try not to tell him how He has to do things.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/19/15


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'man was made at the beginning of his own creation [?]- Warwick.

'...at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female'- Mt.19:4 NIV.

Context Warwick, context! Jesus is not talking about the creation of himself or everything. Jesus is dicussing divorce and the benefits of sticking to ones marriage mate. Thus Matthew & Mark both agree with what Jesus is saying in that from their creation onward, (or from others marriage's) they should "stick together".

The issue at Matt.19:4 and Mark 10:16 is not when they were created, its what they should do after their creation- the principle being what Christians should do after their marriage.

You're not quite up to speed with Bible principles Warwick!?
---David8318 on 2/18/15


Warwick, There's no indication of any of the events of day 6 being performed at night,in the dark!
So we have 12 hours of daylight to accomplish the naming of 15,000 mammal species,9,000 birds etc.
At what time in the morning was Adam created?? 7 am 8 ??
we only have 720 minutes to finish everything on day 6 right ?
How many animals can you name in one minute?

A 24hr.day six is virtually impossible
---1stcliff on 2/18/15


Warwick, One more thing : There are 378 mammal species and 828 bird species known only in Australia, right?
If Adam spent only one minute naming these only, it would take all of the 720 daylight minutes. Do the math !
It's the simple things that confound the wise!
---1stcliff on 2/18/15


StrongAxe, you have made this comment many times. It was wrong when you first made it, and I have told you why. It is still wrong.

You are akin to Cluny who falsely said I believe day (yom) always means 24hr day. When pressed he admitted I had never said so.

I have never used "solar" day because God created light (not the sun-Genesis 1:3) which created day and night, evening and morning-"the first day." Is this verse wrong?

God left creating the sun until the fourth day to show it was just a thing, and not to be worshiped, see Ezekiel 8:16.

Do you believe God could not, today, remove the sun and light the revolving earth with another light source continuing the 24hr day cycle?
---Warwick on 2/18/15


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'In all cases, the context defines the correct interpretation. In Genesis, its a ~24 hour period'- jerry6593.

Really!? "Day", ['yom'] is 24 hours in all cases in Genesis?

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created , in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"- Ge.2:4.

Jerry bangs on about "context", but its precisely what jerry ignores!

"Let me be blunt. This is a stupid..." (jerry6593). Stupid isn't the word! Whose agenda are you operating by jerry?
---David8318 on 2/18/15


Trav:
As I keep pointing out to Warwick, it CAN'T mean "solar day", because during the first few of them, there was no sun in existence...
---StrongAxe on 2/18/15

The word "yom" itself can mean either.
He must defend his boasting of what he supposedly preached. His whole doctrine swings by his thin threads.
Would seemingly sacrifice his own tree for "other" mens translations.
If one argues with the prophets...
Luk_24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk_16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
---Trav on 2/18/15


Trav:

You said: There is no set rule regarding "yom" to be 24 hrs as you say. It can be long ages or our solar day.

As I keep pointing out to Warwick, it CAN'T mean "solar day", because during the first few of them, there was no sun in existence. He insists on 24-hour day, but the only reason we have 24 hour days is because the solar cycle is 24 hours long (and not even always that - see Joshua's long day).
---StrongAxe on 2/18/15


...It can mean a ~24 hour cycle of evening and morning, or it can refer to a past or future age ("...back in my day"). In all cases, the context defines the correct interpretation.
---jerry6593 on 2/18/15

Liked your choice of words, in Hebrew the "context" is unique in Genesis regarding the word day.
In Genesis usages of "yom" there is no prefix "the" in the original Genesis Hebrew. Hebrew reads "yom" third. Not on "the" or in "the" third Day. This Hebrew singular usage in Genesis is uniquely open to being long days.
There is no set rule regarding "yom" to be 24 hrs as you say. It can be long ages or our solar day.
---Trav on 2/18/15


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'lying is ok'- Warwick.

Like your cult founding leader, A Simpson who lied when he said:

'There is, in the deepest centre of the soul, a chamber of peace where God dwells...'

... or lied when he said:

'if we hush every other sound, we can hear His still, small voice' (A Simpson- The Holy Spirit, Or, Power From On High).

Nothing like what A Simpson spouts can be found in scripture. It isn't found because A Simpson & the C & MA promote the occult. The Bible is insufficient for your persuassion Warwick which is why you are drawn to lies & demonism.
---David8318 on 2/18/15


Samuel, thanks for your comments. It is hard work sometimes especially with the JW's who seem to think lying is ok. With them it is necessary to check every quote they give as the majority are false.
---Warwick on 2/17/15


'Do you claim God's voice is not heard today?'- Warwick.

You mean bellowing from heaven? No I don't! Or do you mean in the way your cult founding leader Mr Simpson claimed by "hushing every other sound" because "God dwells in the soul", no I don't! Unless you can show me which scripture Mr Simpson had in mind when he dreamed up the lie "God dwells in the soul" and if we "hush every sound we can hear his voice"!?

JW's do not practice your occult practices of "Contemplative prayer" or "journalling converstaions with God".

Our authority is the Bible. Something you have abandoned and replaced with un-Biblical occult practices initiated by your cult founder!
---David8318 on 2/18/15


Let me be blunt. This is a stupid blog question. The use of the English word "day" in the Bible follows the same rules of interpretation as it does in our everyday speech. It can mean a ~24 hour cycle of evening and morning, or it can refer to a past or future age ("...back in my day"). In all cases, the context defines the correct interpretation. In Genesis, its a ~24 hour period, the "day of the Lord" is an age to come. Why is that so hard to understand? Unless you have an agenda....


---jerry6593 on 2/18/15


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David, we can see from context that Matthew and Mark are reporting Jesus' comments regarding the same event. So Mark does not contradict Matthew and vice versa. Mark says man was made from the beginning of the creation, while Matthew says they were made at the beginning of the same creation. That in which we live.

You seriously want us to believe Jesus said man was made at the beginning of his own creation! Thats about as intelligent as saying he was born on his birthday!!

Neither writer says they were created at the beginning of their own creation as you hilariously claim. And neither even hints their creation was c42,000 after the beginning of creation as JWs teach.

Thanks for pointing out my typo.
---Warwick on 2/17/15


'you acknowledge Jesus (who was there) says man was made "at the beginning of creation."'- Warwick.

Yes, at the beginning of their creation. As Matthew stated: ''Haven't you read,' he replied, 'that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female' (Mt.19:4 NIV)

Their creation ("the beginning of creation" of man and woman- Mark 10:16)according to the Genesis account occured somewhere during the 6th creative day.

//Jesus said this... c 1,144,000 days later... [then] c1.4 million...//

1,144,000 or 1.4million, who knows what Warwick is talking about in his altered, unhinged state of mind? But certainly not what Jesus said!
---David8318 on 2/17/15


Scott, Amos and 2 Chronicles don't support your contention and are irrelevant to the issue. They do not contradict the fact that 'yom' (day) with a number means 24hrs. It did then and it does now.

Conversely Exodus 20:8-11 is relevant as the same language is used there as in Genesis 1. If the language of Exodus does not mean 24hr day then one of God's commandments is meaningless.

You have been caught plagiarizing the work of others, as if it were your words. And misrepresenting what such as Barclay, Fortman and Morenz et al have written. You are a predictable deceiver-normal for JW's. For instance consider David's attempt at deceit concerning the "Pro veritate report." You know he lied.
---Warwick on 2/17/15


... Marc and Warwick claim they can hear God whenever they feel! Where is this taught in scripture?
---David8318 on 2/17/15

Sure be interesting to see some evidence of their claims. Do anglican's claim to speak in tongues?
Warwick boasted recently about contributing to strangers in other country's rather than his own country's homeless children surrounding him.
He's a little confused but, feels good about himself. His son marc thinks his Dad will teach him how to handle you scary JW's.

1Ti_5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
---Trav on 2/17/15


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David, you refuse to answer my questions as that would expose your deceit.

Where does the Pro veritate report direct its comments to the C & MA church? You do not answer as you know you lied. You can prove me wrong by giving the reference.

Do you claim God's voice is not heard today?

If so then why does the WTS call itself "God's channel," Watchtower February 15, 1983, p.12. And that "[God] provides us with direction.." Watchtower, January 15, 1995, p. 28.

How does God Channel His instructions to the WTS? How does God provide the WTS with instruction?
---Warwick on 2/17/15


God explained to Ezekiel that he should not chastize Israel (Ezekiel 14, the "faithless ones" who were not serious about the TRUTH). God said "I will answer them MYSELF".

God did not COMMIT/perform a "lie", He simply ALLOWS those who aren't serious abot truth to DELUDE themselves into believing myths (such as Santa Claus, etc.).

Who ever said that "DAY" always refers to 24 hours?.

"DAY" can mean 1,000 years, 1 million years, etc..

Believing that "day" can only mean 24 hours is choosing to delude yourself (a self-imposed delusion that is VERY STRONG).

The strongest part of the "strong delusion" is believing that it is a FUTURE event.
---faithforfaith on 2/17/15


'David may ridicule people who claim God assists them'- Marc.

Unsurprisingly, Warwick's bed-fellow Marc has come to his aid. Perhaps Marc can speak for his occultist partner Warwick and show where in scripture do we find the teaching whereby:

'There is, in the deepest centre of the soul, a chamber of peace where God dwells... [and if we] hush every other sound, we can hear His still, small voice'- A Simpson (C & MA cult founder), The Holy Spirit, Or, Power From On High.

This isn't being assisted by God as Marc believes. Marc and Warwick claim they can hear God whenever they feel! Where is this taught in scripture? And where have JW's ever claimed God speaks directly to JW's?
---David8318 on 2/17/15


...But guaranteed, he will not let the facts get in the way of his wild assertions.
---scott on 2/17/15

It may get worse, his anglican authority's are reuniting with the Catholic's. Who tolerate a lot of things scripture doesn't. Be interesting to hear his defense of Pedophiles, Happy priest, Happy Bishops, bleeding eye statues, etc, etc.
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, sweet for bitter!
Isa 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Mat_7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, many there be which go in thereat:
---Trav on 2/17/15


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Warwick, Yes God called the light "day" (yom) and the darkness "night"(yah lil)
So creation was accomplished through the 12 hours of daylight, right ? (by your theory)
So Adam named all the species of animals and birds plus underwent surgery (to produce Eve) Plus became oriented with his own body and language and speaking to the creator etc. in 12 hours of daylight without a break...is this what you contend ?
---1stcliff on 2/17/15


Warwick, your current round of questions are as usual irrelevant. The issue was not whether God's voice had been heard by some in Bible times. The question you dodge was whether you hear God's voice as your cult founding leader A Simpson claimed.

You avoid answering by concocting a series of irrelevant questions to divert the issue away from exposing your occult practices. Practices initiated by A Simpson who made un-Biblical claims that have nothing to do with Christianity, but everything to do with the occult.

Your silence on these issues is for all to see. Your C & MA outfit is a trojan horse for occultism. You cover for 'ole Mr Satan, promoting demonism in a twisted form of "Christianity".
---David8318 on 2/17/15


Warwick's short memory-

Has Warwick already forgotten his blanket assertion that "Day means 24hrs when it is combined with a number either one, two...throughout the whole Bible..."?

Well, based on the translations of the NIV, NLT, ESV, NASB, KJV, Holman, ISV, NET, GWT, Jubilee Bible 2000, King James 2000 Bible, American King James Version, American Standard Version, Douay-Rheims Bible, Darby Bible, Webster's Bible Translation, World English Bible, Young's Literal Translation, commentaries by Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary, Pulpit Commentary, Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible, etc....

...he is wrong.

But guaranteed, he will not let the facts get in the way of his wild assertions.
---scott on 2/17/15


Cliff, I have answered your questions for years, to no avail. No matter how often I showed you wrong by Scripture, grammar or logic etc you acknowledge nothing. And you rarely answered mine.

The length of creation days: 'God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day' Genesis 1:5. There we have it, "day" (light) plus "night", (darkness) the two components of one 24hr day, components of nothing else. And just in case you missed it "evening" the beginning of night, and "morning" the end of the night and the beginning of the day leading to evening The 24hr day cycle.

Maybe not where you live!
---Warwick on 2/16/15


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Scott, research shows the NLT, ESV,NASB, Holman, NET, GW, ASV, Douay, Darby, ERV and the NWT have "days" at Amos 4:4.

2 Chronicles 21:19 puzzles commentators as 'two days' is strange in the light of vs. 15.."lingering disease." Two days is not "lingering." Kiel and Delitzsch have suggested "as a result of his chronic (lingering) intestinal illness, Jehorams bowels came out two days before he died" The LXX has "days."

This is irrelevant to creation day-length. However Exodus 20:8-11 is relevant to Genesis ch.1 as God says He created in 6-days, and using the same wording says they were to work 6-days. Do you say they had to work 6-years before having a 1-year Sabbath?
---Warwick on 2/16/15


David, you acknowledge Jesus (who was there) says man was made "at the beginning of creation." He uniquely knows when man was made so would not ( being The Truth) say man was made on day one. The explanation concerns 'creation' which does not refer to creation week but to 'the creation', that which was created, in which we live. Jesus said this c4,000 years after creation week or c 1,144,000 days later. Jesus obviously considers 6 days out of c1.4 million "at the beginning."

Conversely in your 7,000 year days nonsense you have man made 42,000 yrs after the beginning, so you say Jesus is wrong. I say you are wrong.
---Warwick on 2/16/15


Warwick does not like nor answer my questions.
Even in the mid east today a "day" is from sundown to sundown (not sundown to sun up) which does not fit the scripture "evening and morning "
God can accomplish anything but Adam was not superman!
There's not enough hours in day six to accomplish all that Adam did!
You imagine he was in a time bind with no rest ? why?
How long would it take to look over the animals and birds and come up with an appropriate name? Was he pushed for time ?
---1stcliff on 2/16/15


David, I am still waiting for an answer to my questions:


David, you wrote of the "Veritate report", and I have (a few times) asked you to show where the writer of this "report" applies it to the Christian and Missionary Alliance.

Your second repeatedly unanswered question is:

Do you claim God does not speak to man audibly?
Do you also claim God does not speak to man through His Son Jesus?
Do you also claim God does not speak to us also via our consciences?
Do you claim God does not speak to us through his word?
Do you further claim the Holy Spirit does not speak to man?
---Warwick on 2/16/15


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'the earth was already in existence before the creative days began'

There is no deception, only the usual anti-Bible rehtoric from mystic Warwick.

Genesis 1:1, 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth'. This precedes the events of the 6 creative days. Which day does Warwick believe the earth was created?

Warwick believes Adam and Eve were created in the 1st day (his misrepresentation of Jesus at Mark 10:6), that animals were created to live forever, and that Romans 5:12 applies to animals aswell as man!

Romans 5:12 refers to sin and death spreading to "all men", not all animals!

Unlike animals, only man was created in Gods image (1:26)- to live forever.
---David8318 on 2/16/15


I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions Warwick.

At the moment I'm happy to exopse your occult Christian & Missionary Alliance practices as expressed by your cult founder A Simpson:

'There is, in the deepest centre of the soul, a chamber of peace where God dwells (really! I thought God dwells in heaven! Where does the Bible say God dwells in "the soul"?)... [and if we] hush every other sound, we can hear His still, small voice'- A Simpson, The Holy Spirit, Or, Power From On High (Where does Bible say God's voice would be heard in this way?)

Where are the scriptural references for this Warwick/C & MA apostasy? There are none... its can be traced to occultism!
---David8318 on 2/16/15


David I am still waiting for you to answer my obviously too inconvenient questions.
---Warwick on 2/16/15


'Mark 10:6- Warwick.

'But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'- Mark 10:6 (NIV).

''Haven't you read,' he replied, 'that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'- Matt.19:4 (NIV).

Lets put Mark 10:6 into context which Warwick doesn't do and fails miserably.

Everyone knows Jesus was answering questions about divorce, not about when Adam was created. Matthew reports the same discussion.

Thus, Jesus in teaching the principle of 'togetherness', Jesus refers to the beginning of creation of man and woman, (the 6th day- Ge.1:31) not to the beginning of the creation of everything. From their creation, they were to "stick together".
---David8318 on 2/16/15


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...So do you, Trav.
---Cluny on 2/16/15

Say where. Say when. You mean one sided Israel as in including GOD's prophets? Sheep either argue with prophets or agree.
Deu_10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Zec_8:13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel, so will I save you, ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.

Never shown your side...Cluny.
---Trav on 2/16/15


'Mark 10:6... says man was made at the beginning of Creation'- Warwick.

Warwick ignores completely the Genesis account and decides instead to take Mark 10:6 out of context and misrepresent not only the Bible, but also Jesus Christ!

Is Warwick trying to tell us he believes Adam was created in the 1st day, when the Bible clearly states Adam was created during the 6th day?

So because Warwick simply does not know what Mark 10:6 is talking about, he has sin and death entering the world during the 1st day! Even before Adam was created during the 6th day!

Just what are the demonic voices in Warwick's head telling him?
---David8318 on 2/16/15


\\Some anglicans get frustrated when they can't sell one sided doctrines.\\

So do most Protestants and dispensationalists.

So do you, Trav.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/16/15


'Scripture says Adam lived 930 years 5:5. But JW doctrine says the 6th day... he died before the end of the 6th day! This means he died before he sinned so you have death in the world before sin'- Warwick.

Typical Warwick/C & MA bizarre logic and lies. How long the 6th day lasted is irrelevant. Adam was created during the 6th day as was Eve. As soon as Eve was created and the couple brought together, God declared the end of the 6th day and the beginning of the 7th (1:31).

Where have I or any JW literature stated Adam died during the 6th day? This is a lie. Adam did not sin during the 6th day. The Bible (and JW's) teach Adam sinned during the 7th day. Sin and death is a result of Adams doing, not Gods (Ro.5:12).
---David8318 on 2/16/15


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Hebrew reads differently than English. The word "the" is not in the Hebrew account as it reads:
Genesis 1:13
there was evening, and there was morning
yom third.
Hebrew unique numbering of Genesis yom actually supports that
creative yom are not
ordinary (24-hour) days.
There is no disagreement between GOD and "HIS" science laws.
The only disagreements are seen and are seen here on this site between doctrines of men vs scripture and or science.
Science when truthful includes the word "theory" when applicable.
Hebrew word for Third has several extensional meanings here: Ordinal from H7969, feminine a third (part), by extension a third (day, year or time), ...
---Trav on 2/16/15


"Day" means 24hrs when it is combined with a number either one, two etc...Twenty four hour days are shown this way throughout the whole Bible..." Warwick

Sure about that?

Then how do you explain that several times in the Old Testament Yom "combined with a number" is actually translated as, not day, but "year."

For example 2 Chronicles 21:19 says, "after the end of two years (yom - pl. yamim shenayim)...he died..."

Or in Amos 4:4 where we read: "bring in your...tithes after three years (yom - pl. yamim sheloshet)"?

In each case, yom "combined with a number" represents years, not days...and certainly not 24 hour days.
---scott on 2/16/15


\\Cluny I have never said that "day" always means 24 hours.\\

And where did I say that you did?

However, there are many posters on here that DO say that.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/16/15


...God does not live "one day at a time" in the same way as man (ie: 24hours). One day or a day with God does not arbitrarily equal 24 hours, especially with regard to creation as Moses testifies to at Psalm 90:4.
---David8318 on 2/15/15

Well said. Holman is not your GOD, or high priest it appears. Never mine either. Some anglicans get frustrated when they can't sell one sided doctrines.

The Hebrew word "Yom" does not agree with this "angli-can't". It can be used for a broad period of time or human days.
...For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. Psa 90:1-4
---Trav on 2/16/15


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Warwick I am finding it hard to add to your comments. Great job is all I have been able to come up with.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/16/15


Nicely put, David8318.
---Press_On on 2/16/15


David cont., and that the WTS has "no objection to credible scientific research that indicates the earth may be billions of years old." You contradict Jesus.

Further as animals were made on day five you would have us believe that none of them died during the whole of the following creation week i.e. 14,000 years in your story!

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive.
---Warwick on 2/16/15


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