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Divorced Christian Wedding

Should a Christian florist, baker, or wedding planner give services to divorced Christians planning on remarrying?

If so, why?

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 ---Cluny on 2/24/15
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It's just business.
---Mike on 5/18/15


Thank you for answering Carla, I do feel a lot better now, I misunderstood your post.
---Mary on 3/15/15


...now things have changed' we are living under the new testament law.
---anita on 3/10/15

Agreeing with you Anita in the change of the placement of the laws. As per scripture.

Heb_8:10 ...covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb_10:16 ...covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
Jer_31:33 ...saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
---Trav on 3/12/15


Please read exactly what I did say and not what you are implying I am supposed to have said. No woman is a harlot unless she either sells her body or commits adultery, or serves many gods.

If you serve adulterous relationships in terms of known brethren you need to read why God said he will judge them, and if you care to read further you will know if you invite someone to choose evil you will be responsible for that souls life. read Matthew 19 and ask yourself why the disciples question if so be the case pertaining to Christ's definition "...it is better NOT TO MARRY..." !
---Carla on 3/11/15


bretheren God had his own way of doing things before king jesus , came to die for us. now things have changed' we are living under the new testament law.
---anita on 3/10/15




Carla, are you implying every divorced woman is a harlot?! What about the men?! You know nothing about my prior marriages consisting of verbal emotional, sexual and physical abuse towards me, who are you to judge me or any other divorced woman? Not to be rude but this really got to me and I hope you answer, thank you.
---Mary on 3/9/15


The point exactly permission commanded what is the difference ? God is god therefore just because he permits a particular situation does that mean it is permitted for every man to marry a harlot?
---Carla on 3/9/15


Worth repeating:

"Should a Christian florist, baker, or wedding planner give services to divorced Christians planning on remarrying?" Yes
"If so, why?" Business is business. We are instructed to "judge nothing before the time." To "judge righteous judgement", the only righteous judgement is the judgement of self. Therefore concerning others we are to "Judge not, that [we] be not judged." The Lord "will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts:"
---josef on 2/26/15
---Chria9396 on 3/9/15


Carla:

You wrote: The Most High also permitted Hosea to marry a Harlot does that mean every man should marry a prostitute ????

Actually, it wasn't that God permitted Hosea to marry a harlot. God commanded him to marry a harlot, to prove a point. This is a big difference.
---StrongAxe on 3/8/15


The Most High also permitted Hosea to marry a Harlot does that mean every man should marry a prostitute ????

Know what advice to give and why, instead of cherry picking to suit your own ideology. God is God what door he opens, he opens and what doors he shuts he SHUT's. Therefore if the Most High permitted that King Solomon had 7OO Concubines is he not God ? wisdom is free if you ask for it !
---Carla on 3/8/15




1stcliff:

You asked: The Provincial authorities informed the parties that they were not legally married and would have to be re-married by someone who is licensed! How would this be handled theologically ??

If you look at marriage in the Bible, it has always been a civil matter between two parties. It was never a matter that involved government officials (or even clergymen). Churches getting involved in marriages happened much later, and governments later still. I would think that they are married in the eyes of God, just not in the eyes of the Queen.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/15


\\The Provincial authorities informed the parties that they were not legally married and would have to be re-married by someone who is licensed! How would this be handled theologically ??
---1stcliff on 3/6/15\\

For Orthodox, the Sacrament of Matrimony must be administered to the couple by an Orthodox priest. (This is one big difference between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.)

If an Orthodox couple (or even if one is Orthodox and the other not) are married in a civil or other non-Orthodox ceremony, the Orthodox marriage service must be performed for restoration to full communion.

The state of non-Orthodox couples is of no interest to the Church until and unless they embrace Orthodoxy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/15


Cluny, The other two were also "sisters".
A fellow in our town performed several marriages over the past few months until it was discovered that he was not licensed to do so !
The Provincial authorities informed the parties that they were not legally married and would have to be re-married by someone who is licensed! How would this be handled theologically ??
---1stcliff on 3/6/15


\\Strong Axe, Actually it "became" illegal (the law came afterwards) to marry sisters,but God would have known this and stopped it before Jacob married actually four sisters, who produced the 12 tribes that figured into prophecy !\\

Jacob did not marry four sisters.

He married only two, and as well begot children on their servants.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/6/15


1stcliff:

You said: but God would have known this and stopped it before Jacob married actually four sisters

I don't get your point. Are you saying that if it was illegal, God would have intervened? If so, since he didn't intervene, it wasn't illegal.

Also, the whole point of the Law was to tell people to avoid certain behaviors. If God would always intervene to stop wrong behavior, we wouldn't need laws, since God would take care to make sure none of them would be broken.

Unfortunately, God rarely intervenes before the fact (Pharaoh attempting to marry Sarah being one notable exception), but rather, condemns after the fact.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/15


Strong Axe, Actually it "became" illegal (the law came afterwards) to marry sisters,but God would have known this and stopped it before Jacob married actually four sisters, who produced the 12 tribes that figured into prophecy !
But Solomon said "Some things are just too wonderful to understand" !
---1stcliff on 3/6/15


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1stcliff:

You said: BTW it was illegal for Jacob to marry "sisters".

Illegal? By what law? The Law had not yet been given. While there were certain universally recognized laws (e.g. don't kill, don't steal), the minutiae of who you could and couldn't marry weren't necessarily part of that, at least not to the level of detail that was spelled out later in Leviticus.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/15


Cluny, God did not make an issue of Solomon Having sexual relations with 700 wives and 300 concubines.
The issue was that these foreign wives would turn him aside to pagan gods. Which it did!
BTW it was illegal for Jacob to marry "sisters".
But the 12 tribes of Israel grew from this union.
---1stcliff on 3/5/15


How does the Orthodox Church define apostasy?
---learner2 on 3/5/15


\\Doesn't the Orthodox Church permit divorce under certain circumstances?
---learner2 on 3/5\\

In Orthodoxy there are only three canonical grounds for divorce and remarriage: adultery, apostasy, and the moral equivalent of death (which includes such things as abandonment, disappearance, and lifetime imprisonment).

However, such a remarriage by either party presents a bar to ordination for the man.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/15


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Doesn't the Orthodox Church permit divorce under certain circumstances?
---learner2 on 3/5/15


\\Women had very little say in who they married!\\

Frequently, men did not, either, viz--Jacob and Leah.

In those days most marriages were arranged.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/15


Cluny, Consider this, Hebrew society was a male oriented situation, women were bought and sold like chattel .
Jacob worked for Laban 7 years to buy Rachel, Laban pulled a swicheroo and Jacob ended up with Leah, the older sister.Jacob worked another 7 years and finally got Rachel.
Women had very little say in who they married!
Jesus never added the words (Mat.19) "a woman who divorces her husband and marries another, commits adultery"...Why?
---1stcliff on 3/5/15


\\Cluny, The words of Jesus ,"I say unto you" was a clarifying Of the "ambiguous law" that existed.\\

So, when JEsus said "but I say unto you" in this context, he was declaring that remarriage after divorce was adultery and clarifying it.

When He said, "You have heard it said, 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,' BUT I SAY UNTO YOU...." in which He clarified that we were NOT to seek vengeance or even compensatory damages.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/15


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Cliff are you sure you do not have Judaism mixed up with Greek and Roman history?

Women in Israel had rights could own property and were considered individuals. A male who committed adultery or raped a women would be executed according to Mosaic law.

Now dis the leaders always follow the Bible? No.

But when they did women were respected and the whole nation of Israel mourned when Miriam died.


Exodus 15:20

And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

It is false understandings like this that makes people think GOD is against women. Take time to read the Bible. Read Proverbs 31.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/4/15


Cluny, The words of Jesus ,"I say unto you" was a clarifying Of the "ambiguous law" that existed.
The husband was seldom accused of adultery as she was considered his "property".promiscuous males were winked at.
If a woman was accused of adultery she went through a hodge-podge of drinking a potion including dirt off the tabernacle floor ! (Num.5.11-30)
Jesus simply put the law "bluntly" as it was supposed to be!
Jews today do not heed Jesus' explanation so marriage and divorce is more like a business deal !
---1stcliff on 3/4/15


Close. Jesus went around redefining the way the laws was wrongly interpreted by the traditions and wishes of men.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/4/15


John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
---micha9344 on 3/4/15


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\\Was this His style,walking around coming up with new commandments as He went?
---1stcliff on 3/4/15\\

Just what do you think the words, "But **I** say unto you...." mean?

And don't forget, Jesus is God Incarnate.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/15


Remember Rom 13:8-10

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We are free in Christ from living in sin which is transgression of the laws. Read Romans 3:31,

1John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/4/15


Cluny, So Jesus ,who freed us from the law, was making new ones?
Are not the ten commandments, ten laws?
You said "I'm not quoting the law, I'm quoting Jesus"
If you quote Jesus who was expounding the law ,what's the difference?
Unless you think Jesus,at that moment,came up with a new commandment off the top of His head!

Was this His style,walking around coming up with new commandments as He went?
---1stcliff on 3/4/15


\\Cluny, So, Is this a "law" or a principle !
A "commandment" is a rigid law !
---1stcliff on 3/3/\\

I don't recall Jesus saying that those who taught others to ignore the "least of His PRINCIPLES" would be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

The word He used in this context is "commandments".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/3/15


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Cluny, So, Is this a "law" or a principle !
A "commandment" is a rigid law !
---1stcliff on 3/3/15


No, 1stCliff, I'm NOT quoting the Law.

I'm quoting JESUS.

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Note the phrase, "I say unto you...."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/3/15


Cluny, You're not quoting the law?
Jesus was explaining the "law" of marriage and divorce as it was under Hebrew law.
Before His death all the Jews, including Him,
were under that law.!
Are we still under the OT law?
Do you pick and choose which laws to obey and which to discard? By who's authority ? Rom.6.14 "For sin shall not be your master,because you are not under law, but under grace".
---1stcliff on 3/3/15


Cliff GOD's laws of right and wrong were not done away with. You say all the laws of the OT were done away with. Does that include these two.

Deuternomy 11:13
And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

Lev 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

So Cliff the two laws you sight are done away with. So site your sources. I will give you Romans 3:31 the law is established.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/15


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But I'm not quoting the Law, 1stCliff.

I'm quoting Jesus.

Or does that matter to you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/2/15


Cluny, Dispute this if you will, When Jesus spoke those words (Mat19.9) He was living under rigid Jewish law defining the then law of marriage and divorce, right?
When Christ was nailed to the cross He nailed the laws there with Him, He freed us from the "law".
Christian law is this "Love God with your whole heart,mind and strength,and love your neighbor as yourself"
If the law of marriage and divorce survived His death ,then "all" the laws still apply !
We are under "grace" not law !
---1stcliff on 3/2/15


As a matter of fact, the virgins were tarrying for the Bridegroom. You have it backwards.
But does it follow he was marrying all of them?

Try again.
---Cluny on 2/27/15


You might
"try again" and "tarry" over this one.

Mat_25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Would he marry all of them? Find an OT prophet...ask them.
Amo_9:9 For, lo, I will command, I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Eze_16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.
---Trav on 3/3/15


Cluny, Love is what drew me to Christ. To sentence me to a lonely life of bachelorhood for a mistake I made at 18 is certainly not "loving "
We are not under "law" but grace, you're making this sound like a law cast in stone !
"Though your sins be as scarlet, they will be white as snow"
Is my sin "scarlet"?
No I do not have a guilty conscience, Christ has set me free !
Are you a "Pharisee"? The "law" was always their argument !
---1stcliff on 3/2/15


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\\Even if it did do you know that granting us a fresh start (annulment) is not "His will"?\\

Where does it say that granting an annulment in His will in Christ's words on marriage.

I'm hearing the howl of a pricked conscience.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/2/15


'Should a male couple separate if they are Christians?' I say yes because God says that, once we are saved, we should sin no more. This is what He said to the woman taken in adultery. To sin no more they should live separately as the temptations would be too great to stay together I believe and temptation should not be put in their path.
---Rita_H on 3/2/15


Cluny, John 14.14 does not include the words "according to my will" .
Even if it did do you know that granting us a fresh start (annulment) is not "His will"?
My wife was locked in an abusive marriage that would have ended in her becoming clinically depressed and possible suicide !
When I said "I do"(18 years of age) I had no clue she was mentally deranged !
What would you have done ?
---1stcliff on 3/2/15


\\Jesus said "Whatever" you ask in My name, I will do"\\

IF we ask what is according to His will.

He's not a celestial Santa Claus to give us what we wish upon demand.

But getting back to what I'm really wondering about, should a male couple married according to the laws of the state separate if they are Christians?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/2/15


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It is God who gave the requirements for marriage. It is also God who gave the requirements for divorce. Divorce is allowed and in some cases there is no bondage after one occurs.
Men put restrictions where God never did!
---Elder on 3/2/15


Cluny, I just did...Jn.14.14
---1stcliff on 3/2/15


BTW, where did the secular courts receive jurisdiction over an entirely spiritual matter, which is what marriage is?

Can you give BCV for that, please?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/2/15


\\God has forgiven (annulled) our former bad marriages.
Jesus said "Whatever" you ask in My name, I will do"
The court awarded us a divorce ,which is tantamount to annullment of a previous marriage.\\

Please give book, chapter, and verse that support your contention.

BTW, divorce and annulment mean different things at law. One is not tantamount to another.

At this point, you're merely fooling yourself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/1/15


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Cluny, You're not getting the point of forgiveness!
God has forgiven (annulled) our former bad marriages.
Jesus said "Whatever" you ask in My name, I will do"
The court awarded us a divorce ,which is tantamount to annullment of a previous marriage.
Do you think God expects one to be "locked" into an abusive marriage ?
We now have a marriage built on love and mutual respect and love of Christ,our Lord !
Thankfully God is more benevolent than these self righteous finger pointers !
---1stcliff on 3/1/15


\\Cluny, What's the point of forgiveness if it's continually held against you ?\\

Does not forgiveness require forsaking the sin for which you were forgiven?

Let me put it this way. If a same-gender couple asked forgiveness from God, would you expect them to separate?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/28/15


Cluny, What's the point of forgiveness if it's continually held against you ?
Anyway we're not about to change after 26 years,my wife is handicapped and I'm her caregiver,if God wants to punish us, so be it !
---1stcliff on 2/28/15


\\So divorced couples (2nd marriage) who have been forgiven have no fear of being rejected by G\\

Does forgiveness mean you can continue living in a relationship that Jesus called adultery?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/28/15


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The only sin that can't be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, right?
So divorced couples (2nd marriage) who have been forgiven have no fear of being rejected by God!
My wife and I , both divorced, have been married for 26 years...you're suggesting we're in trouble ???
---1stcliff on 2/28/15


Polygamy and adultery are not the same thing. Adultery is when you have relations with another man's wife, not when you have more than one wife.
---Jed on 2/28/15


1stcliff:

The prohibition against adultery was first in the Old Testament. The penalty for it was death by stoning. Yet most of the patriarchs and kings had multiple wives, with no punishment, and no criticism by prophets of God. David WAS criticized for Bathsheba - not because she was a multiple wife, but because he committed adultery with her while her former husband was Uriah was alive, and he had Uriah killed to cover it up. Solomon WAS criticized for multiple wives - not because they were many of them, but because they led him to worship other gods. The polygamy itself was never criticized.
---StrongAxe on 2/27/15


\\See a Bridegroom tarrying for 10 virgins.\\

As a matter of fact, the virgins were tarrying for the Bridegroom. You have it backwards.

But does it follow he was marrying all of them?

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/27/15


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Polygamy was something that God tolerated, like slavery.

NOWHERE in the Bible is either described as good.
---Cluny on 2/26/15

Matter of perspective.
GOD and ours.
See a Bridegroom tarrying for 10 virgins.
Mat_25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

See GOD promising to remarry adulterous Israel. Who are the Ten Virgins.
Hos_2:19 I will betroth thee unto me for ever, yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, in judgment, in lovingkindness, in mercies.
Hos 2:16
Same Ten Virgins are free from first marriage covenant by death of Christ.
GOD doesn't break his own laws...or promises.
---Trav on 2/27/15


\\Many of the OT Saints had more than one living wife or concubine that God did not fault them for....why now the "change"?
---1stcliff on 2/26/15\\

Polygamy was something that God tolerated, like slavery.

NOWHERE in the Bible is either described as good.

And Jesus, Who is God, said several things about remarrying after divorce, calling such liasons adultery.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/26/15


"Should a Christian florist, baker, or wedding planner give services to divorced Christians planning on remarrying?" Yes
"If so, why?" Business is business. We are instructed to "judge nothing before the time." To "judge righteous judgement", the only righteous judgement is the judgement of self. Therefore concerning others we are to "Judge not, that [we] be not judged." The Lord "will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts:"
---josef on 2/26/15


Strong Axe, So multiple wives is not adultery? Is that what you're saying ?
---1stcliff on 2/27/15


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1stcliff:

You asked: Many of the OT Saints had more than one living wife or concubine that God did not fault them for....why now the "change"?,

Having multiple wives is not the same as divorcing one and marrying another.
---StrongAxe on 2/26/15


Florist, bakers and wedding planners should give the same services to divorced Christians as they do non Christians, supposing they are still allowed in the church.
---michael_e on 2/26/15


Cluny, God says He does not change.
Many of the OT Saints had more than one living wife or concubine that God did not fault them for....why now the "change"?
---1stcliff on 2/26/15


\\The one who is remarrying: did he/she decide to divorce? The sermon on the mount only faults the one who one who decides, not the other one\\

Christ made it plain that BOTH those involved in getting married when one is divorced are living in adultery.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/26/15


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Majoring on the minors. Provide the services. No harm, no foul.
---Press_On on 2/26/15


There is an important question left out in the question.

The one who is remarrying: did he/she decide to divorce? The sermon on the mount only faults the one who one who decides, not the other one
---Paul on 2/25/15


\\what you're suggesting, would amount to a boycott.\\

Businesses are boycotted, NOT clients or customers, 1stCliff.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/25/15


...1stCliff, should these services be provided for a male or female wedding?
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/25/15


HUH, THAT'S A QUEER COMMENT?!!!



Can you clarify? What do you mean Cluny?
---Leon on 2/25/15


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Cluny, I would not try to force my personal interpretation of scripture on someone else, what you're suggesting, would amount to a boycott. !
---1stcliff on 2/25/15


1stcliff:

I think the point that Cluny is trying to make is that it is hypocritical for such service providers to balk, on religious grounds, at providing such services to same-sex couples (something Jesus never spoke about), while not batting an eyelash at providing them to divorced couples (something Jesus DID speak about).
---StrongAxe on 2/25/15


So, 1stCliff, should these services be provided for a male or female wedding?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/25/15


Absolutely true Cliff! Why would a florist, baker or wedding planner know the details to a couple's past life anyway? To think so is just plain looney. :)
---Leon on 2/25/15


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Cluny, It serves no useful purpose to snub these couples,
God will judge them, not the florist or the baker etc..
---1stcliff on 2/25/15


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