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Finish It Here March 2015

FINISH IT HERE MARCH 2015

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 ---Leon on 3/3/15
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'I believe [JW] numbers are increasing in Africa'- Marc.

I'll take that as a retraction of your previous comments that JW's have "tossed out blacks". Given most in Africa are black, your ridiculous lies can be easily exposed.

I have access to original copies of Zions Watchtower of 1902 and the alleged quote you make from a 1902 Watchtower (greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasianis[sic](?)) cannot be found.

It must be concluded that you are once again spinning trinitarian internet lies about JW's as you normally do. It appears you're beginning to view your predilection to lying as a virtue!
---David8318 on 3/12/15


'what's the problem?'- Mary.

Mary, please show me where your mantra "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit" or "3 in 1" is found in the Bible?

Sadly, the problem is you know everything about the manmade trinity dogma and nothing of what the Bible teaches.
---David8318 on 3/12/15


'regarding dead... babies'- learner2.

Your disturbing alegations against JW's is fuelled by blind ignorance and bigotry. The Awake you cite does not support your disturbed view of JW's.

The article is the complete oposite. It reports the devastation caused by blood transfusions on hemophiliac's, and the dangers of factor 8 despite repeated warnings from the Centre For Disease control. The article highlights that alternative non-blood therapies are safer for hemophiliacs but are being ignored for financial reasons.

Its exacrly the type of bigotry you display learner2, which put the lives of children at risk because 1. you ignore God's view of blood, and 2. you are bkind to alternative non-blood medical management.
---David8318 on 3/11/15


"Right and Wrong"-StrongAxe

I guess you've left me no choice but to say that you are "right" because anything short of that would be "wrong" and that wouldn't be right would it?
---scott on 3/11/15


scott:

You asked: Are you then, not doing the same thing?

No. I am not taking theological positions based on my interpretations of scripture and declaring them right and everyone else's wrong. I am not claiming prophetic status. I leave such judgments to others. What I DO do here mostly is to point out things like "the Bible says this" or "the Bible never says that" - things that are easily independently verifiable. All else is merely fallible human opinion.
---StrongAxe on 3/11/15




Apology accepted Mark_Eaton. I too have been acidic towards your comments & ask your forgiveness. Pray for me & I'll pray for you. May the Lord forgive, deliver, keep & heal us both! Peace!!! :)
---Leon on 3/11/15


No one, in their right mind, is interested in your foolishness.
---Leon on 3/11/15

You are right. The tenth step wisdom teaches me that when I am disturbed, for whatever reason, there is something wrong with me. This conversation has greatly disturbed me. I have prayed for understanding and I have waited for clarity. This is what I know:

I spoke harshly to you. I spoke rudely to you, even condescendingly. I did not respect you, did not show you love and kindness, and did not treat you as I would want to be treated. I was wrong and I have wronged you.

I am sorry and apologize for my behavior. With God's help I will not speak or treat you or anyone else with the harshness, rudeness, or condescension I have treated you.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/11/15


Mark E, I read your comments and I did not find anything wrong with what you wrote. Maybe Leon just thought everyone was trying to make him look bad. His opinion was already made up no matter what anyone wrote. Leon gets upset when people tell him the truth. I know some here want to throw stones, but not everyone.
---Luke on 3/11/15


Mark..._E: The Punch n Judy, split personality (Luke), hand puppet show you've got going here is farcical ~ smh. Give it a rest! No one, in their right mind, is interested in your foolishness.
---Leon on 3/11/15


"Having it right" StrongAxe

But surely the irony of your argument is not lost on you.

You see that you are arguing that JWs are wrong for simply saying that they are "right" and opposing views (in specific theological cases) are wrong...right?

Are you then, not doing the same thing? If your position is that JWs are wrong for saying that others are wrong...are you not equally "wrong" for criticizing anyone...including JWs? Are you not saying that JWs are wrong? Are you not saying that I am wrong?

Am I right? Can I get an amen?
---scott on 3/11/15


scott:

You said: Every denomination and their members, to a large degree, think that they "have it right." Otherwise, why remain affiliated?

Yes, but there is a big difference between "we have it right" and "we have it right and everyone else has it wrong". Furthermore, there's a big difference between believing you're right and declaring to everyone else that you're right and they're wrong.

I don't come on here and say "I'm right and others are wrong". Most of my posts are "The Bible says this" or "it doesn't say that", which are easily objectively verified independent from me. All else is opinion and fallible.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/15




Mark E, I read your comments and I did not find anything wrong with what you wrote. Maybe Leon just thought everyone was trying to make him look bad. His opinion was already made up no matter what anyone wrote. Leon gets upset when people tell him the truth. I know some here want to throw stones, but not everyone.
---Luke on 3/11/15


Scott, with typical JW design, meanders away from examining whether JWS are God's only appointed organisation and into politics. Scott quotes from three uber left-wing publications, the BBC, The Guardian and Counterpunch, each of which has clearly demonstrated an iniquitous hatred of Jews.

Scott, forbidden to be involved in politics, nevertheless, brimming with hypocritical confidence, will do anything to save his beloved Brooklyn masters from embarrassment, including becoming anti-Semitic.

"All Israel will be saved." (Romans 11:26)
---Marc on 3/10/15


"We have it right"- StrongAxe

A silly argument if there ever was one.

Every denomination and their members, to a large degree, think that they "have it right." Otherwise, why remain affiliated?

Even you who boasts an allegiance to no one, questioning the reliability of some parts of the Bible, believe that you have it right. Otherwise, why do you argue, even criticize others for having a different view than yours?

You believe your "truth" is more accurate than mine, Marc believes his views are "the truth", etc.

The Bible is the only guide for what is "true." That's the Litmus test. Hebrews 4:12
---scott on 3/10/15


David, regarding dead JW babies, see the May 22, 1994 issue of "Awake." It describes it better than I ever could.
---learner2 on 3/10/15


David, I have not attempted an answer before as it is a trick question based upon your warped definition of words contained within. I (many times) asked you a short series of questions to define your beliefs upon the issue, before answering your question, but you repeatedly refused to answer, and still have not answered. When you do so I will happily answer your question. But you won't as honest answers would reveal your deceit.

Your nonsense regarding Pro Veritate backfired as we all now know they are a reclusive secretive organisation. Experience shows such organisations have a pre-ordained agenda and will not enter into any conversation on any issue they raise.
---Warwick on 3/10/15


Warwick, perhaps you could first answer the question I've asked you many times before now. Unanswered by you because you do not want to admit your occultist C & MA roots.

Your founding member A Simpson wrote: "There is, in the deepest centre of the soul, a chamber of peace where God dwells, and where, if we will only enter in and hush every other sound, we can hear His still, small voice"

I'm sure you will be able to show us scripture which tells us God "dwells in the soul" and that if we "hush every sound we can hear Gods voice". Won't you?
---David8318 on 3/10/15


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'But it's NOT the Kingdom of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ'- Cluny.

Where does the Bible say: "the Kingdom of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ"? Cluny is preaching a false gospel based on an un-orthodox pagan trinitarian agenda.

Jesus said to "preach the good news of the Kingdom" (Mt.4:23, 24:14). That Kingdom is described at Revelation 11:15.

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." (NIV)
---David8318 on 3/10/15


Please review your comments regarding the subject. I view them as condescending.
---Leon on 3/10/15

Can I get some assistance from everyone on this blog?

I do not think my comments to Leon, my comments on my family tree, my comments about the President, or my comments about my African-American friends experiences were condescending to Leon. Leon thinks they were and I would like to understand why. I have asked Leon and he is reluctant to explain.

I welcome everyone's opinions and feedback.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/10/15


David, I believe numbers are increasing in Africa. As The Watchtower said, "Our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is MEEK and TEACHABLE, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (Feb. 1, 1952)

But you misunderstood my argument. Has God's only appointed organisation tossed out that Blacks are inferior to whites because "The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian...and this was evidently forced by circumstances under divine control." (ZWT, July 15, 1902)?
---Marc on 3/10/15


Mark_E: Please review your comments regarding the subject. I view them as condescending. If you don't see them as such, well, we'll just have to give it to the Lord in prayer.
---Leon on 3/10/15
---Leon on 3/10/15


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I view them as condescending. ---Leon on 3/10/15

Please explain.

I am sincerely wanting to know how I have spoken to you in a condescending way, or am haughty or puffed up.

I thought I was merely stating facts about myself, about my experiences, and about my family.

If I have been demeaning to you, I want to make it right.

Please help me understand.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/10/15


100 years ago vs. today- Christian Zionist Marc (3)


"Parallels have also been drawn between aspects of South Africa's apartheid regime and certain Israeli policies toward the Palestinians, which are seen as manifestations of racism in Zionist thinking." Zionism, Wikipedia [129][130][131]

129- UN envoy hits Israel 'apartheid' (BBC, Feb. 23, 2007)

130- It's time to rethink Zionism (The Guardian, Feb. 17, 2009)

131- Zionism as a Racist Ideology, by Kathleen and Bill Christinson (Counterpunch, November 8/9, 2003)
---scott on 3/10/15


scott:

You said: Every individual (and JWs believe every organization) should adjust their views if further Bible study, research, etc., sheds light on a previously incorrect one. That's humility.

Very well put. However, this is diametrically opposed to the view "We have it right, and everyone else has it wrong", especially when today's "right" is proven wrong a decade later - which is how the JWs have been operating continuously since the beginning.

Christian Zionist, Pat Robertson,

Pat Robertson's utterances get crazier as he gets older, and nobody elected him spokesman for Christian Zionism.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/15


\\On the contrary. JW's are an international organisation, preaching the "good news of the kingdom" in all nations.
\\

But it's NOT the Kingdom of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ you preach, to Whom be glory.
---Cluny on 3/10/15


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'you've already tossed them out'- Marc.

On the contrary. JW's are an international organisation, preaching the "good news of the kingdom" in all nations.

In Africa for example, Jehovah's Witnesses are experiencing tremendous growth. Kingdom Halls cannot be built quick enough to accomodate the numbers flocking into Jehovah's organisation.

For example, Zambia has 170,000 active JW's with a 5% increase over last year. Ghana also had a 5% increase with 120,000 active witnesses. The same is repeated in many other African countries.

This puts to bed Marc's fallacious lie that JW's have tossed out blacks. Marc is bereft of proper sensible arguments and must now resort to lies. What a weak minded individual!
---David8318 on 3/10/15


Mark_E: Please review your comments regarding the subject. I view them as condescending. If you don't see them as such, well, we'll just have to give it to the Lord in prayer.
---Leon on 3/10/15


100 years ago vs. today- Christian Zionist Marc (1)

A key factor in my leaving the Baptist Church to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses was, ironically, what Marc posts from 100 years ago vs. today.

Every individual (and JWs believe every organization) should adjust their views if further Bible study, research, etc., sheds light on a previously incorrect one. That's humility.

If I were Marc, I'd be more concerned with what his Christian Zionist spokesmen say today in light of God's word and the principles found therein.

"If he [Hugo Chavez] thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it." Christian Zionist, Pat Robertson, 8/22/2005
---scott on 3/10/15


You say I insulted you, yet you don't seem concerned over the fact you've severely insulted me.
---Leon on 3/6/15

Please show where I have severely insulted you.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/10/15


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100 years ago vs. today- Christian Zionist Marc (2)


Christian Zionist Hagee preached:

"And they the hunters should hunt them,' that will be the Jews. 'From every mountain and from every hill and from out of the holes of the rocks.' If that doesn't describe what Hitler did in the holocaust you can't see that."

"God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter..."

Christian Zionist leader, John Hagee, "Battle For Jerusalem", 1:08 mark of his sermon
---scott on 3/10/15


David believes JWs are God's prophets, yet now admits they get prophecies wrong.

"When we think of THE CROSS, too, we believe it was of no light weight...THE CROSS...must have been at least twelve to fourteen feet long, and the CROSS-BEAM must have been at least 5 feet...we would think THE CROSS must have weighed from 150 to 200 pounds." (ZWTR, 15 April 1913, p. 5221.)

David, is this another UNINSPIRED proclamation that the JWs eventually found to be false?

What's next: blood, vaccination, birthdays, transplants, blacks? Oh, forgot, you've already tossed them out!
---Marc on 3/9/15


David, apparently you blame the actions of the WW1 leaders upon their Trinitarianism. Now unless you are making a spurious argument (surely not) you will be able to point out to us which Trinitarian Scriptures guided them into this behaviour, won't you?
---Warwick on 3/10/15


'Orthodox would insist that it's the Catholics that split from them'- Strongaxe.

I know you are only rushing to the defense of your mate Cluny, but you're sacrificing truth on the altar of misplaced friendship.

Are you saying the papacy started in 1054AD? That Catholics are Orthodox Christians with a pope?

I think you'll find when you look at history objectively without your friendship with Cluny to influence you, the papacy of the Catholic church dates back to the Roman era. Catholics believe the pope decends from Peter! Orthodoxy has never had a papacy and split with the RCC circa.1054AD for many reasons, one being their displike of the papacy.
---David8318 on 3/10/15


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'dead babies'- learner2.

What babies learner2? Where have JW's caused the death of babies through none use of blood transfusions? Where is your evidence!? This is a lyibg hysterical rant!

Take a look at the W.H.O. report for subsahara Africa, where 25million people have been infected by AIDS/HIV. They report that 10% of these people were infected by the misuse of blood, many during pregnancy. Thats the lives of 2.5million men, women and children destroyed by the misuse of blood.

JW's use the best medicine for their families. The gold standard is non-blood medical management which many medical facilities will offer as a default position (Acts 15:28).
---David8318 on 3/10/15


\\When people zealously sit under wrong religious teaching, after a while that wrong doctrine will appear to be normative & all else is erroneous.\\

Like you, Leon?

**Cluny's is a Catholic without a pope who doesn't know the difference between a prophet and one who is an inspired prophet.
---David8318 on 3/9/15**

Another name for "unspired prophet" is FALSE prophet.

That's what JWs are.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/10/15


I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with trinitarianism. There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit--3 in 1. So what's the problem?
---Mary on 3/9/15


It's a matter of mental programming Mary. When people zealously sit under wrong religious teaching, after a while that wrong doctrine will appear to be normative & all else is erroneous. So, even though in the Bible the Godhead refers to "US" plural, persons who've been brainwashed to believe otherwise will reject & refuse to acknowledge the truth even though it's staring them eye-ball-to-eye-ball in the face.
---Leon on 3/9/15


David8318:

You said: JW's are not inspired prophets, so what! I'd rather get dates wrong than be a bloodguilty trinitarian!

This is a logical fallacy, because belief in trinitarianism has nothing to do with pacifism. The Amish and Mennonites are strict pacifists AND trinitarians.

Cluny's is a Catholic without a pope who doesn't know the difference between a prophet and one who is an inspired prophet.

The Old Testament gave clear instructions on how one deals with un-inspired prophets (i.e. ones who prophecy things that are incorrect). They are not to be listened to, and they are to be stoned to death.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/15


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David, your Tu Quoque arguments are just silly. But if you want to go down that road, then let's talk about all the dead babies who were not allowed blood transfusion by their Jehovah's Witness parents. When religious doctrine becomes more important then the lives of children, that religion has become bankrupt.
---learner2 on 3/9/15


'a pinch of salt?'- Marc.

Well mankind hasn't benefited from your brand of false religion. Let me see, what has been the legacy of your religion of trinitarianism.

Oh yes, while JW's were busy examining the scriptures around 1914, you trinitarians were handing out guns and bullets in readiness for the first world war! If anyone had been in any trinitarian religious organisation in the years around 1914 their life expecancy would have been reduced to a few months! How pathetic you sound petifogging over JW's examining the scriptures around 1914 when your trinitarian leaders were scheming war and death!

JW's are not inspired prophets, so what! I'd rather get dates wrong than be a bloodguilty trinitarian!
---David8318 on 3/9/15


I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with trinitarianism. There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit--3 in 1. So what's the problem?
---Mary on 3/9/15


'an invention of the 19th century'- Luke.

And trinitarianism is an invention of the 4th century. So by your reckoning, trinitarianism also has no credibility.

You could go back further with the trinity dogma although you will end up in pagan Egypt.

During the 19th century, the trinity dogma was one of the first apostate teachings of Christendom that JW's identified as anti-Biblical and antichrist.
---David8318 on 3/9/15


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Strongaxe, you believe Christians are without a temple? Really... how sad! Comparing the pope to a temple is laughable but is an argument from error, or fallacious equivocation. But I don't believe Christians are without a temple.

Who split from who is irrelevant. The fact is the orthodox church wanted to carry on with the same belief system as the RCC but without the papacy which was in existence long before the schism of 1054AD. I believe history is at odds with those who think the RCC split from the orthodox church. I cannot find any "orthodox church" prior to 1054AD. Can you?

Cluny's is a Catholic without a pope who doesn't know the difference between a prophet and one who is an inspired prophet.
---David8318 on 3/9/15


David,

1. "Does Jehovah have a prophet to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?...they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses." (WT, 4/1/72)

2. "That the deliverance of the saints must take place BEFORE 1914 is manifest...Just how long BEFORE 1914 the last living members will be glorified" (pre 1914 edition, p. 228)

Vs

"That the deliverance of the saints must take place VERY SOON AFTER 1914 is manifest...Just how long AFTER 1914 the last living members will be glorified" (1923 edition, p. 228)

David, inspired or non-inspired? Which one is what?
---Marc on 3/9/15


\\Cluny says he is "orthodox", but in reality he is a Catholic without a pope.

You could just as well say "Christians are Jewish without a temple".
---StrongAxe on 3/9/15
\\

Since Protestantism was hatched from the egg that Rome laid, it is more accurate to say that Protestants are Catholics who for an infallible pope substitute their infallible individual selves.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/9/15


Marc, "NON-INSPIRED prophet" is an oxymoron as the Holman Bible Dictionary makes clear Prophecy or Prophets concerns the "Reception and declaration of a word from the Lord through a direct prompting of the Holy Spirit and the human instrument thereof."

However considering the countless numbers of false prophecies given by the WTS the fact that they are uninspired is obvious.

I suppose that by the rejection of the personhood of the Holy Spirit they have willingly cut themselves off from any possibility of inspiration from God.
---Warwick on 3/9/15


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David8318:

You said: "Orthodoxy" is Catholicism in a different guise but without a pope

The Orthodox would insist that it's the Catholics that split from them, and not the other way around. When there's a split, each side can claim to be the legitimate heirs of those who went before.

Cluny says he is "orthodox", but in reality he is a Catholic without a pope.

You could just as well say "Christians are Jewish without a temple".
---StrongAxe on 3/9/15


Strongaxe- you've obviously not heard of the East-West Schism, often termed the Great Schism. This was when the orthodox church was invented. They didn't want to be governed by the pope and so split from Catholicism around 1054AD. However they still took RCC teachings with them. "Orthodoxy" is Catholicism in a different guise but without a pope

Cluny says he is "orthodox", but in reality he is a Catholic without a pope.
---David8318 on 3/9/15


\\Reasoning on the Scriptures of 1986 stated JW's do not claim to be inspired prophets, \\

Good reason not to listen to them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/9/15


Just like Mormonism and Christian Science, The Watchtower Society is an invention of the 19th century and cannot trace its roots any further back than that. So historically it has no credibility.
---learner2 on 3/8/15


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David, as a NON-INSPIRED prophet of Jehovah, when you claim something as God's only prophetic organisation on earth, should we only take it with a pinch of salt? After all, you've claimed various things about 1874, 1878, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, which were clearly wrong, so does that mean that these false predictions PROVE you are NOT INSPIRED prophets of God?

So, if you pre-1930 odd publications carried the cross on their front covers but now don't, how do we know which is correct? Is it the NON-INSPIRED prophetic utterance of pre-1930 which is wrong or is it the present NON-INSPIRED one? After all, if you are NON-INSPIRED prophets of God, how do we know when you are accurately prophesying for God, albeit in a NON-INSPIRED mode?
---Marc on 3/8/15


David8318:

You wrote: ... Cluny (a Catholic without a pope) ...
and: But clueless Cluny wouldn't be able to understand the difference.

Orthodoxy is not Catholic. It is somewhat disingenuous to accuse someone else of being clueless about the subtleties of what your religion teaches, while being similarly clueless about very fundamental things in his religion.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/15


David, Charles Russell wrote a book called "Studies in the Scriptures" by his own words all J. Witness are in darkness. In the Watchtower of Sep. 15, 1910, he said, people do not see the plan of God by simply studying the Bible. He said, if anyone lays the "Scriptures studies" aside, his book, in ten years the person goes into darkness. He also said,
"on the other hand, if he the person, merely read the "Scripture Studies" with their references and had not read a page of the Bible as such, he would be in the light at the end of two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures"
by your presidents opinion, all of you are in darkness because the book is no longer in circulation.
---Luke on 3/9/15


David when a person speaks of the another is a derisive and insulting tone. They are not showing love. Also when you make the statment that the Orthodox are popeless. You show you do not understand the church.

Please say your words in a kind Christian manner. GOD loves all of us here. So should we love each other.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/9/15


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'Glory to Jesus Christ!'- who unorthodox Cluny (a Catholic without a pope) doesn't believe. Neither does Cluny understand what prophet means.

The Greek pro-phetes means "a speaker out", or a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. Thus by definition anyone can be a prophet by 'speaking out' for God. JW's believe (and they're allowed to) that they as a group act as a prophet. This is what the Watchtower of 1972 discussed.

Reasoning on the Scriptures of 1986 stated JW's do not claim to be inspired prophets, which is completely different to what was discussed in the Watchtower of 1972. But clueless Cluny wouldn't be able to understand the difference.
---David8318 on 3/8/15


In the March 1972 issue of WATCHTOWER, the lead article "They Shall Know that a Prophet Was among Them" says that JWs are prophets.

In their 1986 book REASONING TOGETHER FROM THE SCRIPTURES, they say that JWs are NOT prophets.

Question: When did the Watchtower Organization lie? In 1972 or 1986?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/8/15


JWs: God's prophets and God's only prophetic organisation?

1. God changed his mind about birthdays after 1940.

2. Changed his mind whether Christ died on a cross (check out the Watchtower magazine's logo pre-1931).

3. God changed his mind about blood (including cow fertilisers for your garden), transplants, vaccinations, then changed his mind back again...and again...and again...(as more light came upon the subject, or some such get-out-of-jail excuse was invented)

4. God changed his mind about black men's skins becoming white ("There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant." The Golden Age, July 24, 1929, p. 702)

To be continued.
---Marc on 3/7/15


Mark_E: I said I was finished & truly was, but, for your sake I feel it's necessary to comment to your recent statements in hopes we can reconcile our difference amicably.

I'm genuinely sorry your feelings are hurt & you feel insulted. Perhaps you really don't realize how condescending you've been in our recent interchanges of views. You say I insulted you, yet you don't seem concerned over the fact you've severely insulted me. Why is that? Is it because you have a false sense of superiority over me & other African-Americans? It certainly seems that way.

So, if you want to be "honest" I'm always open to meaningful & beneficial dialogue between equal human beings, minus any delusions of grandeur.
---Leon on 3/6/15


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David 8318-1 wrote "Are you now saying you don't hear God's voice audibly in the head or from the sky?" By which he infers I did once claim to hear Gods voice audibly but am now claiming I never said that.

But then David8318-2 wrote Where have I said you hear God's voice audibly? Bizarre even for you!

Pro Veritate cannot be contacted and you claim "Most if not all trinitarian groups are "reclusive, secretive" groups." What Anglicans, Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Church of God, Methodists, Assemblies of God, C & MA...cannot be contacted? Bizarre plus!

Where have I distanced myself from the beliefs of the C & MA?
---Warwick on 3/6/15


What a pseudo Christlike thing to say
---Leon on 3/5/15

Why do you continue to make up things that I do not say? Did I ever say that I am "more American than you" anywhere in any of my posts? My family tree was never meant to insult you. I gave my family tree to show you that my family has been in this country for so long that we have no memory of any country but the USA. Why would we want to remember Britain when we have lived here for nearly half a millennia?

Do you want to have an honest and open conversation? A conversation without insult, hurt feelings, and false witness? I am willing.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/6/15


What does pseudo christlike mean?
---learner2 on 3/5/15


"We have purposely forgotten where we came from." ?!!!

"...I related their experiences here because no African-American publically will do so."
?!!!
...---Mark_Eaton on 3/5/15

"...likely longer than your family." Does that mean you're probably more American than me? INCREDIBLE!:) What a pseudo Christlike thing to say Mark_E! That really "invalidated" the sincerity your last paragraph.

Oooookay, I'm finished! :/
---Leon on 3/5/15


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HUH? You need a check up from the neck up!
---Leon on 3/5/15

I gave my family tree as proof that my family has been here in the US for 400 years and likely longer than your family. We do not hyphenate anything (British-American) and we consider ourselves Americans. We have purposely forgotten where we came from.

I am no expert. I have close friends who feel safe to share their innermost feelings. I related their experiences here because no African-American publically will do so.

It is only when we as Believers in Christ are open about who we are, what we struggle with, and why we cannot love our neighbors will we be different from the world, and the world will pay attention to our message.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/5/15


"...[I'm] an American more than...anything else.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/5/15


Mark_E: Really?! That would mean you're an aboriginal American. They (Native Americans) were already in the Americas long before the European (viking, Spaniards, Portuguese, British, etc.) "ALIEN" INVASION.

I didn't ask for your family tree. It sounds like you're trying to justify something. What?! I only asked your ethnicity.

Bottom line: You're a British American who has some token "Black" friends who gave you ALL the secrets of being "Black" in America. So, you think I (an African-American) don't get it (can't relate)? Yet, you're an authority...? HUH? You need a check up from the neck up! :D
---Leon on 3/5/15


\\I really didn't expect you to be forthright in your reply. You're a dishonest rascal who lacks integrity\\

You seem to get very upset and bitter when you don't get the answers you expect or want.

Why is that, Leon?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/15


You're a dishonest rascal who lacks integrity.
---Leon on 3/4/15

I must also state that I have not found Cluny to be dishonest or lacking integrity.

I also believe it is me whom you are angry at but you are deflecting it towards Cluny.

I can give you my ethnicity if you like. My ancestor is Francis Eaton who made the journey from England to America in 1620. My direct line to him is thru his son Benjamin, Benjamin Jr. Benjamin III, and Benjamin IV. My family fought in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars, on the Union side. My family has held the same tract of land since 1840.

Therefore, I am an American more than I am anything else.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/5/15


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\\Cluny: I really didn't expect you to be forthright in your reply. You're a dishonest rascal who lacks integrity. One wouldn't expect that from someone who claims Jesus to be the Christ..\\

Are you saying that you to NOT think that Jesus is the Christ, Leon?

Just who do you think IS the Christ?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/15


Are not all value judgments and characterizations of other people opinions rather than facts, unless they come direct from God?
---learner2 on 3/4/15


No attacks Sam. Just statements of facts!

John the Baptist referred to the religious leaders as a brood of vipers, i.e., "a bunch of snakes". (Matt. 23:33)

Jesus referred to Herod as a fox, i.e., "a little dog". (Lk. 13:32)

Just statements of facts Sam!!!
---Leon on 3/4/15


What is integrity?
---learner2 on 3/4/15


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Leon I have never found Cluny to be dishonest. We do not agree but he has talked and acted like a gentlemen in our correspondence.

We should never use personal attacks no matter what.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/4/15


\\Cut the deceptive doublespeak & ludicrous statements Cluny. You're either Irish or Franco-American. What is your ethnicity?
---Leon on 3/3/15\\

As far as I can tell, my ancestors came from Africa through Britain.

Why does it matter to you?

And why did you assume that "Cluny", a French name, was Irish?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/15


Cluny: I really didn't expect you to be forthright in your reply. You're a dishonest rascal who lacks integrity. One wouldn't expect that from someone who claims Jesus to be the Christ...

Nevermind, I'm finished!
---Leon on 3/4/15


Leon Hi Brother,just for fun, I looked up white and black as colors and was surprised to find out actually Black isn't considered as a color and White is a color. That really surprised me. I am so fair colored that I use ivory shaded face powder in spite of the fact I am also American Indian. I am just like a mongrel dog made of up of many different ethnic groups. Irish,Scots,German,French,Black Dutch,English,and American Indian,but no matter a persons skin color or what were their ancestors or where they were from,they still have the basic need to be accepted for who they are,and not be judged. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 3/4/15


\\Cut the deceptive doublespeak & ludicrous statements Cluny. You're either Irish or Franco-American. What is your ethnicity?
---Leon on 3/3/15\\

As far as I can tell, my ancestors came from Africa through Britain.

Why does it matter to you?

And why did you assume that "Cluny", a French name, was Irish?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/15


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historically, one ethnic group, in particular, has thought of their "color" as being far superior to the vast color array of other ethnic groups. THAT'S RACIST!!!

---Leon on 3/3/15


Lumping people together into "groups" just because they share the same skin color is racist, Leon.

I hope you do realize that racism is not a "white" thing. Today, black on white racism is more prevalent.
---Jed on 3/4/15



Cut the deceptive doublespeak & ludicrous statements Cluny. You're either Irish or Franco-American. What is your ethnicity?

---Leon on 3/3/15


Why can't someone just be American? Why do people have to try to divide and separate by race or ethnic background. That is what race baiters. True, non-racist Americans take pride only in being American. And seek to bring unity between all people by sharing core American values.
---Jed on 3/4/15


Cut the deceptive doublespeak & ludicrous statements Cluny. You're either Irish or Franco-American. What is your ethnicity?
---Leon on 3/3/15


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