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Creation Flood True

Is the Bible correct about the fiat Creation and the worldwide flood of Noah or not?

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 ---jerry6593 on 3/6/15
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...Christ was the master teacher, he must have taught salvation without works in the Gospels. Where did he teach it?
---David on 3/13/15

Good reply David. The ultimate test. Should be foundational in the churches but, isn't.
Mat 18:23 ... likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his "servants".
Mat_25:15 ...gave five talents, ... to every man according to his several ability, and straightway took his journey.

Verse below in the middle of Matt 18 the answers, instructions and warnings from Christ:
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Mat_15:24
Mat_10:6
Jer_50:6
Joh_21:15
Joh_21:16
Joh_21:17
Joh_10:26 But ye believe ...
---Trav on 3/13/15


Anyone who does not believe the Bible's account of fiat creation and the global flood of Noah does not believe Jesus or His Apostles.
---jerry6593 on 3/13/15

But, I don't believe your interpretation of either. There are more witnesses against you than for you.

I'm sad you take this starving denom stance...and rejoice that through the Christ the Prophets and the Apostles i've found my peace.
Seldom if ever have I noted you referring to the Prophets. Never have I seen you post or scripturally seek for a sheep. A stated goal, command, appeal and teaching of Christ. Live what you are preaching Jerry. I like you and your blind faith but don't see your condemnations witnessed scripturally.
---Trav on 3/13/15


James does not say we are saved by our works but that the works we do are proof that we are already saved by faith. --Warwick

Warwick
No,... James does not say that, your doctrine says it.
Paul says we are saved by Grace through faith. And everyone who has read James, knows,... James clearly taught faith without works is worthless.

Can you buy a car, with money from a Monopoly game? No,.. and why not? Because it too, has no value.
If you can not buy a car with monopoly money, how can you be saved by Grace, through faith, if it has no value?

Since Christ was the master teacher, he must have taught salvation without works in the Gospels. Where did he teach it?
---David on 3/13/15


Let's face it. Anyone who does not believe the Bible's account of fiat creation and the global flood of Noah does not believe Jesus or His Apostles. Therefore, they can never be considered Orthodox!



---jerry6593 on 3/13/15


Cluny, the truth of the matter is that you cannot refute that which I wrote about Hebrew grammar. Your gobble gobble nonsense perfectly illustrates that.

Now you can prove me wrong by at least attempting to refute my comments.
---Warwick on 3/12/15




David, I think we have flogged this to death.

James does not say we are saved by our works but that the works we do are proof that we are already saved by faith. This is in line with Ephesians 2:10."For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." We are new creations via the work of Jesus and now saved we have good works to do. This is what James says.

If we could save ourselves by works there Jesus died in vain.

Again see 2 Timothy 1:9 we were saved "not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace."
---Warwick on 3/12/15


We cannot be justified by any works. We are to work because JESUS has called us and we have been Born Again by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But works go along and follow. They do not earn anything.


Luke 17:10

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/12/15


\\Cluny actually "Oogle obble glooble globble oogle globble gloo" means I don't have a clue so I will write nonsense to hide my ignorance.
---Warwick on 3/12/15\\

I agree that you don't have a clue, and so you write nonsense in a helpless attempt to hide your ignorance.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/12/15


"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:28. --Warwick on 3/12/15

Warwick
You got it!! That's the difference. In (Romans 3:28) he is talking about works of the Law of Moses, and in (Romans 2:13) he is speaking about the works of the Law of Christ.

The reason a man can not be justified by the works of the law of Moses, is because man can not keep the Law of Moses (James 2:10). But,...through keeping the Law of Christ, you can please God! (John 14:21).

So when Paul says a man can not be justified by works, he was referring to the works of the Law of Moses, not good works, the Law of Christ.
---David on 3/12/15


Trav et al,
Thus the three sons of Noah could not have ... populated the whole earth.
---Marc on 3/10/15

You declared yourself my enemy last year?
Joh_8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Gal_4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man = (aw-dawm' H119, ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person)

whom I have created from the face of the earth = ad-aw-maw'
H119, soil (from its general redness): - country, earth, ground, husband [-man] (-ry), land)
---Trav on 3/12/15




Cluny actually "Oogle obble glooble globble oogle globble gloo" means I don't have a clue so I will write nonsense to hide my ignorance.
---Warwick on 3/12/15


David, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast," Ephesians 2:8, 9.
"He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time," 2 Timothy 1:9.
"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:28.

We are saved by faith, which was given to us by God.

James (2:22) says Abraham's faith was made complete by what he then did.
---Warwick on 3/12/15


Learner, you are right my life is hard. Today I took a pleasant drive through exotic surroundings with a friend, in my exciting car, then a wonderful ferry trip to a beautiful spot, had a swim in the ocean, then an excellent lunch, out door at a very pleasant restaurant, after meeting 2 more friends. Then off to see some of my grandchildren before coming home. I agree this is hard, but someone has to do it!

And then tomorrow...

I quoted McCarthy did I? Only because the saying is so apt.
---Warwick on 3/12/15


James is saying that it is easy to say you have faith but your good works (coming after salvation) are proof that your faith is alive and active.-Warwick

Warwick
James says we are justified by our works, and you say, our faith by works comes after salvation. Help me understand how you are reading James.
Does this mean you believe justification comes after salvation?

If so, this is where we disagree, for I believe we must to be justified to be saved.
---David on 3/12/15


\\You are a BiblioSceptic regarding certain Scriptural topics,..\\

Et reliqua.

There's a line from CSL's PILGRIM'S REGRESS that says what you said in much fewer words.

"Oogle obble glooble globble oogle globble gloo."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/11/15


Learner, Trav et al,

"So he destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: man, cattle, creeping thing and bird. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him survived....Shem, Ham and Japeth...these three were the sons of Noah, and from these the WHOLE earth was populated."

Tell me: If it wasn't a universal flood, then there were other survivors and these others had children too. Thus the three sons of Noah could not have been the ones who populated the whole earth.

Please explain.
---Marc on 3/10/15


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StrongAxe, are you saying we cannot tell what is parable (a story designed to teach spiritual truth) and what is historical narrative? To make it easy parables are called parables e.g. Matthew 13:3, 34, 35, Mark 3:23, 4:33.

To understand serious literature requires considerable understanding of literary principles. You dont have to be particularly smart you just need to know some principles. Psalms are full of literary devices including hyperbole, poetry (which does not mean they are not literal truth), metaphor and so on but we understand. And of course we have the Holy Spirit.

We can also look at what Scriptures Jesus and the apostles quoted from or alluded to. This shows they took Scripture as sober historical fact.
---Warwick on 3/10/15


Warwick, I'm not surprised that you are quoting Senator Joe McCarthy. He's saw a Communist behind every bush! I hope you can be happy on your own someday without trying to depend on others' opinions to match yours. It's makes life too hard for you.
---learner2 on 3/10/15


Cluny for one who engages in the put-down you are somewhat precious in shouting 'slander.'

You are a BiblioSceptic regarding certain Scriptural topics, such as the Flood. You ignored the historical narrative style of the Flood epic, preferring to supply an irrelevant quote which you somehow think contradicts the historicity of the Flood narrative. However experts in Hebrew grammar * say the Flood epic has the typical Hebrew verb pattern qatal (perfect) and consecutives wayyiqtols, of historical Hebrew narrative. This is the grammatical (historical narrative style) all the way from Genesis 1:1 to the end of the book in chapter 50.

* Juon P. and Muraoka T., A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew : part 3: Syntax, p.390.
---Warwick on 3/11/15


You are right, those who say they have faith but have no following good works are not justified.-Warwick

Warwick
On 3/9 you told Strongaxe,
"We are not in any way saved by our inherent goodness or works."
But in (Romans 2:13) Paul taught a man is justified by his works. And in (James 2:24), James teaches the same.

Now I am well aware, Paul also taught a man is not justified by his works.
But the question, Why did Paul teach both?

Why did Paul teach a man can't be justified by keeping the Law, but he can be justified by his good works?
The answer to this riddle, is in the question.






---David on 3/11/15


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Learner, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it is most likely a duck. Likewise you promote ideas long promoted by those referred to as liberals. Looks like a duck to me!

Liberals do not start as full-blown liberals but begin with the rejection of various Scriptures. Your writing off most of Scripture as "commentary" puts you well down the road to liberalism.
---Warwick on 3/10/15


David, what is your point about Billy Graham and James, I don't follow.

According to Hebrews ch.11, that chapter which praises people of great faith, Abraham is commended again and again for his faith in God and his obedience to him. The faith came first. James is saying that it is easy to say you have faith but your good works (coming after salvation) are proof that your faith is alive and active. Therefore Abraham's faith was indeed proved by his good works, which followed.

"Abraham believed God" this is faith.

You are right, those who say they have faith but have no following good works are not justified.
---Warwick on 3/10/15


StrongAxe, as regards Matthew 25 there we see Jesus upon His throne in heaven at judgement. Those on his right are called "righteous" and none is made righteous by good works apart from faith. Romans 3:26 God "the one who justifies the man who has faith in Jesus." There is no way to righteousness by works.

This is what James spoke about when he said I will show you my faith by what I do. That the already saved will have lives of service and good works if their faith is real and living.
---Warwick on 3/10/15


Warwick:

You said: "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," 2 Timothy 3:16.

Note that this scripture doesn't mention "literal or factually accurate". In fact, there are many things that AREN'T factual at all (e.g. parables) that are nevertheless useful for teaching, reproof, correction, and training.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/15


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Warwick, please don't label me, it is demeaning. I do not put labels on you. It is for me to worry about and not you, what I should expect when I stand before the Lord. Please look at your own life and see if there is any room for improvement. I will take care of my side of the street, and you can take care of yours. God be with you.
---learner2 on 3/10/15


Learner, we are saved by faith, and that in Christ, and His word. Will you stand before Jesus, not as a person ignorant of the whole of Scripture, and tell Him the rest of His word is commentary? Don't expect a good result!

That you call the rest of His word commentary shows you may have read the whole of the Bible (I doubt it) but you do not understand it. "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," 2 Timothy 3:16. But to you it is but "commentary."

Typical of the liberals who have passed through these pages you ignore Scripture preferring your own nonScriptural ideas.
---Warwick on 3/10/15


\\Cluny you say your faith is in Jesus, but apparently not in His word\\

People believed in Jesus before ONE WORD of the Gospels was ever written.

And where did I say I did not believe in His word? Prove your slander.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/10/15


Trav, your authority "science"...
---Warwick on 3/9/15

Ha. Math and Historical Facts from GOD are free unadulterated witnesses. Belonging to every seeker of Truth and freedom from men's unwitnessed and contorted teachings. To your chagrin. Peacefully scripture confirms further the math and science of Genesis. While your carefully massaged doctrines of men create atheist of generations past and children present and future. Ohhh, your work and marks are revealed scripturally. I'm blessed and honored revealing them. If you were ignorantly unaware, an allowance could be hoped for.
Mar_7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
---Trav on 3/10/15


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Warwick:

You said: It is not about theology but faith.

Yet in Matthew 25, when Jesus is speaking to the sheep, they are genuinely surprised at being saved - this indicates that they at least include people who did good works, but didn't necessarily have faith (or at least were totally unaware of Matthew 25).
---StrongAxe on 3/9/15


Warwick, you are absolutely right. Salvation has nothing to do with good works, and that includes studying creationism. We are saved by the death and resurrection of Jesus. I believe that and you believe that. All the rest is commentary. So we can disagree, and both be perfectly saved.
---learner2 on 3/9/15


Cluny you say your faith is in Jesus, but apparently not in His word. Nowhere will you find Him saying only part of it is to be taken as historical truth.

In rejecting the truth of the Flood epic, that it can be taken as an historical record, you are rejecting Jesus. How will you explain this to Him when you stand before Him in judgement! You cannot say that others did not tell you it is truth.
---Warwick on 3/10/15


StrongAxe, salvation is based upon faith. We are not in any way saved by our inherent goodness or works.-Warwick

Warwick
So you believe Billy Graham is right, and the disciple James was wrong? I think Billy will make a poor witness when you kneel before God on judgment day.

(James 2:21-24)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God.
24 Ye see then how by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
---David on 3/10/15


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Learner, I trust we Christians do look after those who need our assistance, but that is not what saves us. James makes it clear that we are not saved by our good works but good works are that which the already saved must do.
---Warwick on 3/9/15


God will ask if we fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited prisoners. Have we done that?
---learner2 on 3/9/15


Actually, learner, the books of the Torah are identified in Hebrew by their opening words.

"First Book of Moses" and the others were also added by the LXX translators.

And my faith is in Jesus Christ, not a theory about the Bible, much less the Flood.

Glory to Him!
---Cluny on 3/9/15


Trav, your authority "science" has not proved the Flood was not world-wide. However Scripture shows it was world-wide. And you need to consider that the "science" to which you bend the knee does not accept, miracles, virgin birth, or the resurrection of the dead, nor that man is sinful from birth. What strange bed-fellows you have!
---Warwick on 3/9/15


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StrongAxe, salvation is based upon faith. We are not in any way saved by our inherent goodness or works. For example Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God,"

Person X standing before Jesus is clothed in faithlessness.

It is not about theology but faith. Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible." verse 6 "without faith it is impossible to please God."
---Warwick on 3/9/15


Cluny, I knew that. Those books are traditionally called the books of Moses. But that does not prove that Moses wrote them. He was just a main character.
---learner2 on 3/9/15


I believe part of the reason scientist have so much trouble is they do not and cannot recognize that a Global flood occurred.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/6/15

What is ironic is that the Bible doesn't change the facts. Men do. Hebrew wording and science testify it was not Global. Mens doctrines create a Global fable that Science cannot agree with. Science could/would readily agree with truth. Men have trouble with scriptural truth. Truth is not popular nor will it ever be.
Cluny made the best point no one would/could touch. Were men all over the "Globe"? Then why would a Global flood be needed in the beginning.
Notable that their ocean mixed saline flood didn't drown the Egyptians, Chinese and other civilizations.
---Trav on 3/9/15


\\Learner: Open the NKJ version to the first page of Torah. On top you will see written, "The First Book of Moses Called GENESIS".
\\

But it's not called "Genesis" in Hebrew.

Did you know that?

This was the Greek name given it in the LXX, translated c. 200 BC.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/9/15


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Warwick:

You said: Imagine this scenario: person x stands before the Lord at judgement and the Lord says "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work"

I prefer to imagine the scenario that Jesus ACTUALLY talked about in Matthew 25, where he judges between the righteous and the wicked, not according to their theology, or their religious knowledge, but rather based solely on their acts of compassion towards others.
---StrongAxe on 3/8/15


Warwick, now you're being evasive. You seem to know the questions that will be asked at the judgment. Where do you get this information?
---learner2 on 3/8/15


Cluny: So, do you read Hebrew, yes or no?


Learner: Open the NKJ version to the first page of Torah. On top you will see written, "The First Book of Moses Called GENESIS".

Furthermore, Luke writes, "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in ALL the Scriptures the things concerning himself."
---Marc on 3/8/15


Learner: It's time to live up to your name. The Bible records that Jesus not only wrote with His own finger that He created the heaven and the earth in six days, but that He also spoke these words in the presence of millions of Hebrews and Gentiles. After His incarnation, He confirmed that these words would endure as long as heaven and earth remain.

So you have a choice to make. Will you learn from the Master Teacher, or will you continue to only believe atheist college professors?

Your salvation is not relevant here. It is God's honor that is in question.


---jerry6593 on 3/9/15


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Learner, Cluny's answer is evasive as he does not address the subject, but introduces an irrelevancy.

BTW you asked if "everyone who questions the Genesis Deluge goes to hell or not." It is not about questioning but whether we are/are not prepared to accept the Bible as God's Truth. Imagine this scenario: person x stands before the Lord at judgement and the Lord says "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work" (2 Tim 3:16,17) and I gave over 3 chapters to describe the Flood but you would not believe me!

Learner, where do you imagine person x would now stand?
---Warwick on 3/8/15


Learner, the Lord knows what we think, even before we think it! He therefore knows what reason we have for refusing to take any of His Scripture as written-as how He and the apostles took it. He uniquely knows that people who refuse to believe such as 6-day creation, and the world-wide Flood do not refuse for Biblical reasons. He knows they have accepted long-ages/evolution and are reinterpreting Scripture through man's ideas. They cannot therefore accept 6-day creation or the world-wide Flood as this would contradict their nonBiblical beliefs.

There is little faith here and Scripture tells us "For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" Romans 14:23. And as you must know it is by faith alone that we are saved.
---Warwick on 3/8/15


Cluny the words of Jesus "For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man..stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming" Matthew 24:37-39.

Jesus talks of an historical event and one coming. Or is His coming also not a real event?
---Warwick on 3/8/15


learner2:

You said: No one has answered my question as to whether everyone who questions the Genesis Deluge goes to hell or not.

If you look at all the scriptures that say what one needs to be saved, they constantly mention faith in God, faith in Jesus, etc., but none of them mention belief in any specific incidents (such a global flood), or even a totally literal interpretation of scripture.
---StrongAxe on 3/8/15


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Steven, do you really believe that salvation is a matter of chance, as you say?
---learner2 on 3/8/15


learner2, to answer your question:

The only way to heaven and/or eternal life is "love" (as in the verb form), that is "true love."

After a person has truly repented, gotten baptised with water, and recieved the Holy Spirit only then will the everything written in the bible becomes reality. Besides, christians and others have a right to question whatever is in the bible or even God himself. Job, as well as other godly people in the bible, asked a lot of questions.

Even people who don't believe in Jesus will have a chance at eternal life as the bible says.
---Steveng on 3/8/15


\\But Cluny, you don't read Hebrew!\\

How do you know I don't?

I have understood "all flesh" to mean human beings.

How far had human beings and other living creatures spread from the Garden of Eden by the time of the Flood?

Do you know?

Prove your knowledge.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/8/15


Cluny au contraire the Bible is a book of history as anyone who has read it should know. If fact it is its historicity which sets it apart from other sacred texts. Holman writes "Biblical history is the written register of time-past, present, and future."

When you say the Bible is not historical you are saying that Jesus did not die and rise again, in real time. Maybe you consider it just a 'spiritual' event and not something which happened physically, in a specific place and on a specific date.

As to science, when the Bible speaks in such terms it is accurate.

In reality you have exposed your faithless attitude to Scripture. Your authority is not God and His word but mans fallible, changing beliefs.
---Warwick on 3/8/15


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Why do you Moses wrote anything about the flood?
---learner2 on 3/8/15


Cluny: "But is this what the original[sic?] Hebrew is saying?"

But Cluny, you don't read Hebrew! So stick to English.

No hang on: Cluny doesn't even appreciate plain English! For when Moses wrote "ALL flesh", "destroy from under heaven ALL flesh", "EVERYTHING on the earth", "under the WHOLE heaven", "ALL flesh died and EVERY man" "destroyed ALL living things", "These three were the sons of Noah and from these the WHOLE earth was populated", Cluny reckons "all" means 'some' and "everything" means 'NOT everything".

Folks, we're in the presence of a genius!
---Marc on 3/8/15


No one has answered my question as to whether everyone who questions the Genesis Deluge goes to hell or not.
---learner2 on 3/8/15


\\Cluny, you have vast worldly knowledge that you denpend on to interpret spiritual things, but don't trust your worldly interpretations, trust the Holy Spirit to give you the knowledge.\\

I do trust the Holy Spirit, and He tells me you don't know what you are talking about.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/8/15


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\\ Irrelevant to the topic \\

I feel it's quite germane.

The Bible is NOT a book of history or science as we understand those disciplines today, nor was it intended to be.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/8/15


Cluny, you quoted "The Bible does not tell us how the heavens go, but how to go to Heaven."' Irrelevant to the topic (world-wide flood) and contradicted by Scripture, as God's word contains 3 chapters of minute physical details:

Why the flood occurred.
How the ark was to be constructed, including dimensions, even the type of wood.
What animals needed to be aboard.
Of days and months.
Of where the flood-waters came from.
The depth to which "all the high mountains under the entire heavens" were covered by water.
Of the process for leaving the ark.
Of why the animals were on board and so on.
Detail upon detail of how things go.

You just refuse to believe Scripture.
---Warwick on 3/7/15


Cluny wrote: "But is this in fact what the original Hebrew is saying?"

Cluny, you have vast worldly knowledge that you denpend on to interpret spiritual things, but don't trust your worldly interpretations, trust the Holy Spirit to give you the knowledge.
---Steveng on 3/7/15


Warwick, how is it evasive?
---learner2 on 3/7/15


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Those whose authority is man, and his changing beliefs, will never be convinced, by Scripture to believe in a world-wide flood because it contradicts man's humanistic 'religion' of long-ages/evolution.

Those whose authority is God, read His word and believe He meant the whole earth.

Genesis 7:19 "And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all (Hebrew 'kol') the high mountains under the whole ('kol') heaven were covered."

The singular use of 'kol' can refer to less than 'all of all' but the double use means all in totality. However a even a single 'kol' can mean everything "Whatever is under the whole ('kol')heaven is mine said the Lord Job 41:11, certainly meaning everything on earth.
---Warwick on 3/7/15


"The end of ALL flesh has come before me, I will destroy them with the earth."
"I am bringing the flood to destroy from under heaven ALL flesh in which is the breath of life, and EVERYTHING that is on the earth shall die."
"And ALL the high hills under the WHOLE heaven were covered"
"And ALL flesh died and EVERY man."
"So he destroyed ALL living things"
"The waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh."
"These three were the sons of Noah and from these the WHOLE earth was populated."

Cluny: Will he respond, avoid or divide and "conquer" my argument?
---Marc on 3/8/15


the Genesis account should not be compared with scientific theories and hypotheses

I have found these scientific theories, are the greatest argument I have for the Bibles version of creation. For one to believe in the scientific theories, one has to suspend all logical thinking.

And when you show folks how illogical each theory actually is, it makes the Bible version of events that much more logical.
---David on 3/8/15


Learner two you wondered how Cluny would respond to me. Now you have it: with his usual evasion.
---Warwick on 3/7/15


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\\If the bible says that the entire earth was covered including fifteen cubits above the mountains of the earth, then I believe it.\\

But is this in fact what the original Hebrew is saying?

"Eretz" can mean land or region, as well.

The Bible says nothing about what was going on in China or the Western Hemisphere as far as I can tell.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/15


Does everyone who questions the Genesis Deluge go to hell?
---learner2 on 3/7/15


If the bible says it, it's true and I believe it.
---shira4368 on 3/6/15


And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth, and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered. Genesis 7:19,20

If the bible says that the entire earth was covered including fifteen cubits above the mountains of the earth, then I believe it.
---Steveng on 3/7/15


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Cluny: Are you suggesting that we should trust in your speculations rather than in the Word of God? How do your views square with the orthodoxy of the Apostles?


Glory to the Creator Jesus Christ!


---jerry6593 on 3/7/15


"I will destroy man from the face of the earth, both man and beast."
"The end of ALL flesh has come before me, I will destroy them with the earth."
"I am bringing the flood to destroy from under heaven ALL flesh in which is the breath of life, and EVERYTHING that is on the earth shall die."
"And ALL the high hills under the WHOLE heaven were covered"
"And ALL flesh died and EVERY man."
"So he destroyed ALL living things"
"The waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh."
"These three were the sons of Noah and from these the WHOLE earth was populated."

Yep, Cluny, sounds local to me.
---Marc on 3/7/15


\\Cluny, how will you respond to Warwick's logically irreproachable argument?
---learner2 on 3/6/15
\\

A wiser man than I said, "The Bible does not tell us how the heavens go, but how to go to Heaven."

The actual physics of how God's eternal "Let there be ..." became manifested in space and time is something we will not understand in this life, and in the next will have other things to interest us, such as God Himself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/15


Cluny, how will you respond to Warwick's logically irreproachable argument?
---learner2 on 3/6/15


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Good points. Not total agreement.

I believe part of the reason scientist have so much trouble is they do not and cannot recognize that a Global flood occurred. This would mess with their calculations and understanding leading them done an incorrect path.

But still I mostly agree and appreciate the points.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/6/15


Cluny, well put.
---learner2 on 3/6/15


Cluny you are correct Genesis should never be compared with scientific theories and hypotheses as the latter are constantly changing works of fallible man. Conversely Genesis is God's word, His accurate, unchanging history for man and the basis for the gospel.

Jesus and the apostles quoted from or alluded too the first 11 books of Genesis no less than 107 times, and always as sober historical truth. Are they wrong on this? Then why are they right elsewhere?

That the flood was a local event is the belief (contradicted by Scripture) of those who will not accept Gods word as written, preferring man's changing theories and hypotheses.

How can you say Glory to Jesus Christ while disbelieving His truth? Hypocrisy.
---Warwick on 3/6/15


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