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Ten Commadments Binding

Did the founders of most Protestant religions consider the Ten Commandments as binding on Christians or not?

Join Our Free Penpals and Take The Ten Commandments Bible Quiz
 ---jerry6593 on 3/6/15
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The thing David is that we never know who is reading but, not posting.
GOD's scripture witnessing other scripture will find Sheep. Sometimes it is the unbelievers posts that make an opportunity for scripture witnessing scripture possible.-Trav on 3/17/15


Trav
Thanks for the reminding me.
---David on 3/18/15


barb: "Were the commandments of God nailed to the cross"

NO! The Commandments of God were written on stone tablets and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, while the "Handwriting of Ordinances" (Moses' writings) were written on parchment and placed outside the Ark. It is this "Handwriting of Ordinances" that was nailed to the cross (Col 2:14) - NOT the Ten Commandment Law of God. This handwriting contained the Levitical ceremonial law which was fulfilled by Christ's sacrifice, and thus no longer in effect. But "Thou shalt not kill", "Remember the Sabbath Day", etc. are still binding.

It is impossible to nail through stone.


---jerry6593 on 3/18/15


Haz Legalist goats. Didn't help those in need. Matthew 25. James agrees. Christians help others.

The Phariesses thought works saved them.

The Bible teaches Grace and love causes us to obey GOD. We are to not live in sin.


Rom 13:8,9
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Ephesians 6:2

Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)
---Samuelbb7 on 3/18/15


Note also that Whatever the law says IT SAYS TO THOSE UNDER IT Rom 3:19.
Christians are NOT under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24, Gal 5:18).

Your claim that the law is binding upon Christians contradicts scripture.
---Haz27 on 3/7/15

Haz you posted clearest to the point scriptures on the subject. Only Israel...both Nth and Sth Houses had the law. Both falling under the curse of it.
Again it is found in Hebrews 8:10.
That it is written to the exact same people...only on their hearts and minds this time. It could be one of the clearest marks of who is Israel at this time and who isn't.
Heb 10 does not say..."and" Judah. Which seems accurate, as they did recognize or receive their own messiah.
---Trav on 3/17/15


Samuel.
The works in James 2 is the works of believing on Jesus (John 6:29), as I already shared on CN before. Christians let our light (Christ in us) shine (Matt 5) preaching the gospel to the lost, that is the spiritually hungry who lack Christ our spiritual food (1Cor 10:4), and the spiritually naked who lack the robes of righteousness (Isa 61:10).

Legalists (goats) fail these good works. They preach works of the law, instead of Christ. God says we cannot mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6
---Haz27 on 3/17/15




Trav...
The depth of mans denial of the Truth, is much deeper than I ever thought.
I really thought I could bring him around,...I really did.
---David on 3/17/15

You can't. I can't. What GOD doesn't draw to the truth cannot be coaxed.
But, Christ through scripture can.
The thing David is that we never know who is reading but, not posting.
GOD's scripture witnessing other scripture will find Sheep. Sometimes it is the unbelievers posts that make an opportunity for scripture witnessing scripture possible.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
---Trav on 3/17/15


The law, as a means to attain righteousness, has definitely been done away,... Haz27

True the law is not a way to righteouness. Yes our faith is accounted to us as righteoness. I and my church agree. Was Abrahan saved by Fatih or works? Read Galations and James then reconcile them.


Romans 13:9

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Because we are saved we are to not break these five of the Ten Commandments. True it does not mention any of the first five of the Ten Commandments.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/17/15


Does it matter what the founders of the protestant religions consider? Who are we told to follow, the founders or Jesus? Jesus said that the commandments would not pass away until Heaven and Earth passed away. So if someone else tells us that they have passed away or are about to pass away, we had best look to Jesus for the evidence. Jesus told us that to enter into eternal life we must keep the commandments so if someone else tells us all we have to do is believe (believe what?) and have faith we best look to Jesus for the truth. Were the commandments of God nailed to the cross or is there evidence in the book of Revelation to the contrary?
---barb on 3/17/15


A people claiming to be Christian who will not acknowledge the written testament of the New Covenant?-Trav

Trav
I showed Warwick a foundational error in his doctrine on the other blog. He admitted, confession of sin was required to for the forgiveness of sin (I John 1:9), and yet he still believes he doesn't need to do anything, to be saved.

I failed to open his eyes, but he sure opened mine!!
According to his doctrine, a man does not need the forgiveness of sin to be saved. The depth of mans denial of the Truth, is much deeper than I ever thought.

I really thought I could bring him around,...I really did.
---David on 3/17/15


Samuel. Rom 13:9 does NOT say "keep the law", as you claimed. Instead it says love fulfills the law. And note how the Sabbath is NOT listed in Rom 13:9 nor in 1John 3:23 which lists Christ's 2 commandments.

You claim the law is not done away with. But your claim contradicts scripture, 2Cor 3:7-11, Rom 10:4, Rom 8:2, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18.

The law, as a means to attain righteousness, has definitely been done away, as God Himself says so often. Under the NT our faith is now counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

Where SDA go wrong is that they preach condemnation under the law, claiming that one is unrighteous unless they "keep" the law (which means perfectly, James 2:10) or to some ambiguous minimum standard.
---Haz27 on 3/16/15




(1Cor 11:32)
If the commandments are not binding, why does the Lord chasten us when we break them?
---David on 3/15/15

Who are the "we" that is chastened. Who is judged?
I see on the news whole countries that are not chastened in mind or heart.
Laws are only binding on who they are given too. In either Testament. The Laws were given to one people...but, it offends many or most now that it is stated that they are given to the same again. A people claiming to be Christian who will not acknowledge the written testament of the New Covenant? Would we conclude they are taught falsely, misled? Fearful? Blind, lazy, babes, tares. Preacher teachers the same, and additionally merchandisers or wolves.
Heb 8:10
---Trav on 3/16/15


Christians establish the law as we agree the law is good, just and holy, Rom 7:12, Haz

the above is true ...Paul in Romans 13:9 says we keep the law because that is what love does? Samuelbb7

That was my answer.I agreed with you.

To restate in another way to establish the law is to know it is the rule of what is sin.

Love God and love neighbor are direct quotes from the law of Moses. Deut. 6:5, 10:12, 11:13 and more. Leviticus 19:18 as a Jewish lawyer said to Jesus. Luke 10:25-28.

They are established from the law or in effect and not done away with. But they do not save. Jesus saves.

Strongax If I do not love my neighbor and therefore obey the law then I am lying and lost.IJohn.


Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/16/15


Samuelbb7:

You asked: Where is it written disobey the law?

There is a difference between not being bound by the law, and disobeying it. For example, if you love your neighbor, you will ALREADY refrain from robbing him, killing him, etc. and no longer need to be explicitly told to avoid those things.
---StrongAxe on 3/15/15


Samuel. Again you're not answering my question. Explain what it means to "establish the law".

Why is the law "DONE AWAY" with (2Cor 3:7-11)?
Because the ministry of the Spirit is much more glorious. Christians are under a better covenant, Heb 8:6. BUT under the law (ministry of death) you will only be found guilty and condemned, Rom 3:19, James 2:10.

And what are the 2 commandments under this better new covenant?
1: BELIEVE ON JESUS.
2: LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
Note the Sabbath is not listed. You should not even judge Christians not doing the Sabbath, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ, Col 2:17.

So again, what do you think "establish the law" means?
---Haz27 on 3/16/15


If we obey "love your neighbor as yourself", we no longer need to be told "don't kill", "don't steal", etc. because we will ALREADY refrain from these things.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
True enough, but is it not sin which keeps us from sharing in the Eternal inheritance? (John 8:34-35).

And what is sin?
(1 John 3:4) Whosoever commits sin transgress also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.

If it is sin which condemns us, and sin is the transgression of the Law, wouldn't you say the Law is still binding?
---David on 3/16/15


Christians establish the law as we agree the law is good, just and holy, Rom 7:12, Haz

Since the above is true why is it done away with especially since Paul in Romans 13:9 says we keep the law because that is what love does?

Where is it written disobey the law?

Is Jesus not GOD? Did not GOD give the Ten Commandments? Why did Jesus say:
Mark 2:27

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Why does Jesus talk about how to observe the Sabbath? The Gospels were written to the church were they not?

Which of the other Ten Commandments is to be followed by disobeying it?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/15/15


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Explain Romans 3:31---Samuel

I had asked you this but you did not answer. Please explain "establish" the law.

Christians establish the law as we agree the law is good, just and holy, Rom 7:12, and that we deserved death. We thus sought God's mercy, and by His grace we're saved.

Regarding Matt 5:17, Jesus fulfilled the law for us, Rom 8:4 & 10:4.

Christians are NO LONGER UNDER the schoolmaster, Gal 3:25.
In Christ we're under the new ministry of the Spirit. And Christ's 2 commandments are believe on Jesus and love one another. And love fulfills the law. And when we believe on Jesus we actually believe God, John 12:44, thus rejecting false gods. Note also Sabbath is not one of Christ's commands.
---Haz27 on 3/15/15


Michaele You start out so well then fall into the law gone trap. Please answer David's question.

Explain
Romans 3:31

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Haz by the Grace of GOD I am a saint. By nature and birth I am a sinner.

Why do you say Romans 3:31 is a lie? Or why you say Jesus lied in Matthew 5:17.

How can we be sinners who need to be saved if the Schoolmaster that tells we are sinners is gone? Galation 3:24.

Read the whole chapter. We are not saved by law. But we are not to break the law either. Unless you tell me that having others gods is not a sin? In fact for nine of the Ten Commandments you teach to break them is a sin. Correct?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/15/15


David:

You asked: If the commandments are not binding, why does the Lord chasten us when we break them?

If we obey "love your neighbor as yourself", we no longer need to be told "don't kill", "don't steal", etc. because we will ALREADY refrain from these things. If we kill or steal, we are breaking one of Jesus's two greatest commandments, and should be chastened for that, without needing to be chastened for breaking the Ten Commandments.
---StrongAxe on 3/15/15


(1 Corinthians 11:32)
But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


If the commandments are not binding, why does the Lord chasten us when we break them?
---David on 3/15/15


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we are sinners----Samuel

Christians are righteous saints, and NOT sinners. Note 1Pet 4:18
if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2 different groups described above.
Group 1: Righteous, saved
Group 2: Sinner, ungodly.
We see these 2 groups also described as sheep v's goats, wheat v's tares.

Samuel you identify with group 2. Why? Because SDA doctrine holds to the ministry of condemnation/ death (written and engraved in stone, the 10c), which was DONE AWAY,( 2Cor 3:7-11) and replaced by the much more glorious ministry of righteousness/ the Spirit.
---Haz27 on 3/14/15


Law exposes sin. Sin deserves death, that means you lose at the judgment. (Gal 3:10)
If God had given one commandment you couldn't keep it just as your father. (Rom 5:12).
(Mat 22:37) Have you kept this with every breath youve taken? If you break one you are guilty of all (James 2:10). We have all broken one (Rom 3:10)
But the cross was revealed to Paul who explained the mystery of Christ. (Eph 2:15 (Rom 3:22)
Putting your faith in Gods grace provided in the perfect blood of Jesus Christ, you are not under even one commandment to bind you to sin.
You are delivered from your sinful body, law, and wrath of God by payment of the perfect blood of Christ!
It's not commandments that save but Gods grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9)
---michael_e on 3/14/15


Good point Jerry.

In order to keep a day Holy you have to be Holy? True or false?

To be Holy we must be made Holy by the Power of GOD for nothing we can do will make us Holy.
True or False?

Our works can make nothing Holy since we are sinners. True of False.

Our Salvation is based on accepting JESUS CHRIST as our LORD and Savior.

Luke Strong Ax If you think I am lying about what we teach and believe. Then go to our official website and read our 28 fundamental beliefs. Or ask Jerry if I am lying.

But please quit saying we believe things we do not. That is making false accusations which are a sin.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/14/15


I see that the discussion has moved off topic. The short answer is Yes, the founders of all major Christian denominations agreed that the Ten Commandments were still binding on all mankind - not just the Jews. Even the Catholics believe this (although "they think to change times and laws").

It was Jesus who wrote the 10C on Mt. Sinai. He also spoke the 10C to ~3-4 million Israelites (no Jews yet) and Gentiles (remember that the "mixed multitude" was also in attendance). The Sabbath Commandment was understood and enforced BEFORE they reached Sinai (manna).

Sin is defined by the 10C. Christianity is not a license to sin, but a covenant of the heart to keep from it by the power of Christ.

---jerry6593 on 3/14/15


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We are sinners and cannot be holy. So the only way to keep Sabbath Holy is for GOD to make us Holy. ...Samuell

You claim you're a sinner. Now note above you say sinners cannot be holy.

SDA preach condemnation to Christians who do not keep Sabbath. They're saying that we're not holy.

That thief on the cross got it easy. He believed on Jesus (John 3:16) calling him "Lord", and was saved. That's the simplicity in Christ.

But SDA preach a complicated gospel where salvation depends also upon whether we observe the Sabbath the right way.

2Cor 11:3 I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST.
---Haz27 on 3/13/15


Samuelbb7:

God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai. Surely he intended for the Jews to keep them, yes? So if they could be expected to keep "Thou shalt not kill", why shouldn't they be expected to keep "Remember the sabbath to keep it holy"?
---StrongAxe on 3/13/15


Samuel, you sure like to make things up that was never said by me. Now you say,
"Luke. You are saying by Human effort a person can be Holy in the sight of GOD. That is legalism."

I never spoke about anyone making Saturday Sabbath holy. I said anyone can keep Saturday Sabbath. You said only those born of the Spirit can keep the Sabbath. I said you were wrong. Strongaxe said you were wrong. Now you know why.
You speak and say things never said by someone else. If you speak the truth, the truth will make you free.
---Luke on 3/13/15


No. I am saying what the Bible says.


Exodus 20:8

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Do you disagree that a person has to be Holy to do something Holy?

Many can rest and do rules on any day. That does not mean they are keeping a day holy. As far as they are concerned they may think so. But Holiness comes from GOD alone. We are sinners and cannot be holy.

So the only way to keep Sabbath Holy is for GOD to make us Holy.

I pray that I have explained it properly this time.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/13/15


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Samuelbb7:

You said: To keep Sabbath you have to be Holy. To be Holy you have to be filled with the Holy Spirit and Born Again.

Conservative and orthodox Jews keep the Sabbath, probably more scrupulously than most Christians. Are you trying to tell us that you believe that Jews are filled with the spirit and born again?
---StrongAxe on 3/13/15


Josef you wrote truth. We are to love others and so do right. Romans 13:8-14

Luke. You are saying by Human effort a person can be Holy in the sight of GOD. That is legalism. No one can be Holy in the sight of GOD unless they are cleansed by the blood of Christ and have been Born Again.

You lie about what we teach about hell. Please look up or ask what we teach. A person who is lost is resurrected in the Second Resurrection. They face Judgement before Jesus on the Great White Throne. Then they are cast into the lake of fire until they have suffered for their sins and then die. So each is punished justly.

Not all being tortured in the same hell fire for all eternity with no difference made for what each did.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/13/15


I have no idea what the founders of religions thought about this, however Jerry "now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. [Therefore] "sin shall not have dominion over [the believer], for [the believer is] not under law but under grace." Refs. Rom 3:19>Gal 5:18>Rom 6:14
---Josef on 3/13/15


Samuel, you now say,

"To keep Sabbath you have to be Holy. To be Holy you have to be filled with the Holy Spirit and Born Again."

You are completely wrong. Anyone by their own works can keep Saturday Sabbath. You do not have to be born of the Spirit to keep the Sabbath. You say they have to be born again but that is not true.
Also, we are saved by grace through faith so that we do not wind up in hell, or what you call the lake of fire.
You are teaching Jehovah Witness doctrine.
That everyone gets the same punishment, death. But you will suffer for your crimes against God. In death there is no punishment. suffering is punishment. Dead people do not suffer.
---Luke on 3/13/15


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I was not lying because you said, Born of the Spirit is to be save, what we call "Salvation" so you do believe exactly as I said, and it was not lie.
Luke

This sentance doesn't make sense. I say you have to be Born Again. You say beign Born Again means salvation. The you say I do not believe in being saved.

Let me try this again. We must be Born Again by faith through Grace.

Can you understand that?

Yes Jesus is the only one w/o sin. Which is why he had to die to save us. Nothing we can do can save us. We promote Grace but not alone to save us from hell. But to save us from living in sin.

To keep Sabbath you have to be Holy. To be Holy you have to be filled with the Holy Spirit and Born Again.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/12/15


Samuel, you promote the Ten Commandments only because of Saturday Sabbath. If it was about sinning against God, everyone does. There is not one person in this whole world that is without sin. Only Jesus was and is without sin.
SDA's are not without sin. You think if you keep one Commandment keeps you clean, but it doesn't.
You should promote the grace of God. And how every true Christian should be doing. When we witness to others, we mention first their sins against God and that the only way out of hell is through faith in Jesus Christ.
What do you tell others when you witness? That if they keep the Saturday Sabbath, that it confirms they are saved, but it confirms nothing. Anyone can keep Saturday Sabbath if they want.
---Luke on 3/12/15


Samuel, you say I lied, but with your answer, you make my point, it was no lie,
" I do not believe that keeping the law saves me. You keep lying and saying I believe that and that keeping Sabbath saves me which is not possible." then you continue with:
" To keep Sabbath you have to be Born again by the power of the Holy Spirit which is what is necssary to keep any of the laws of GOD."

I was not lying because you said,
"To keep the Sabbath you have to be born of the Holy Spirit which is necessary to keep any of the laws of God"
Born of the Spirit is to be save, what we call "Salvation" so you do believe exactly as I said, and it was not lie.
---Luke on 3/12/15


Samuelbb7, where you contradict yourself is in claiming salvation by grace, but then determining righteousness by deeds of the law.

You even suggested that Tit 1:16 the works are deeds of the law.
And this in spite of the fact that Jesus said our works are to believe on him, John 6:29.

Note Rom 13:9 that the Sabbath is not even listed.

Christ's 2 commandments are to believe on him and love one another. No Sabbath listed here either.

Note also that love forgives 7x70. Yet SDA doctrine claims God's love is limited and if we disobey the law beyond some ambiguous minimum standard of obedience, then we're lost.

SDA doctrine is clearly error and a lukewarm mix of works of the law, and grace.
---Haz27 on 3/11/15


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You can't exactly accept what the early Europeans did with the bible, If we listen to every wind of doctrine you would be most confused. It was not given to them to preach the gospel they used it to kill, steal and destroy nation's of people in the name of the ten commandments and now they are breaking practically every single one and teaching everyone to remove the bible from every hospital, school and public place. Then persecuting you from teaching others to keep them, a demonstration as soon as some of you question my answer O.o
---Carla on 3/11/15


Thank you Michael great point.

Yes Luke I admit I am a sinner and only the Grace of my Lord Jesus Christ through his death on the cross saves me. Which is what makes your accusation false and a lie.

So you are saying I am lying. I do not believe that keeping the law saves me. You keep lying and saying I believe that and that keeping Sabbath saves me which is not possible. To keep Sabbath you have to be Born again by the power of the Holy Spirit which is what is necssary to keep any of the laws of GOD.

Since what you say I believe is a lie. You are not attacking what I believe.

I saw my sin which is why I like Christian in Pilgrims Progress had to go to the cross to be forgiven.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/11/15


We are saved because we believe Jesus is the Son of God,that He died on the cross,was buried,and arose and as the only begotten of God He sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven. We aren't saved by keeping the Laws of the Old Testament because we are under a new Covenant the first waxed old and was done away with. Also we don't keep the Law because we are saved but rather because we love the Lord God Almighty and follow the Gospel of Christ. We should never put our faith in denominational doctrine believing it can get us to heaven because only can we get there if we walk in the Spirit. Jesus said be holy as I am holy,do it and we've got an inside track and are on our way to the promised land. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 3/11/15


"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Samuel, you are included in the mix. All human beings are sinners. But when Jesus saves you, there is no longer any condemnation to those who are in Christ.

"Legalisits believe they are saved by keeping the law. SDA teach we keep the law because we are saved. Read James."

Legalisit is what you are, you believe you are save by keeping the law just because you do Saturday Sabbath. But you are a sinner even if you keep the Saturday Sabbath.
We are not attacking you, but what you believe. You need to come into the light to see your sin.
---Luke on 3/11/15


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Rom 3:31
When we love our neighbor, as a believer, of course, then we fulfill the Law." We don't cast it out. Can you love someone and break any of those commandments against him? It's impossible. And so love is the fulfilling of the Law.
Roms 13:10 "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: (if you love your neighbor you can't do him dirty, if love is operating as much as lieth in us we'll let God take care of it.) therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
So, we as members of the boC Have fulfilled the "Thou shalt nots"
---michael_e on 3/11/15


Well I seem to be getting a lot of condemnation and attacks. Please point out to me where I have been attacking you?

No one has tried to explain Romans 3:31. Nor 1John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Legalisits believe they are saved by keeping the law. SDA teach we keep the law because we are saved. Read James.

Jesus will is that believing leads to doing. John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Loving others leads to obeying the law. Romans 13:9

Read Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

This is what we teach.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/11/15


many who call themselves Christians are, in fact, legalists---StrongAxe

True.

Jesus referred to your point in Matt 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES THE WILL of My Father in heaven

What's God's will?
John 6:40
this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM may have everlasting life

The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
We cannot even mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6.

Sadly, legalists reject Christ when they preach works of the law.
By their works (of the law) they deny God, Tit 1:16.
---Haz27 on 3/11/15


Strongaxe, I believe that when Haz mentioned Christians, he was referring to true Christians born of the Spirit. Many here call themselves Christians, but you can almost feel the hate they have for others.
True Christian are no long under the law, they are under grace. SDA's are very concern for the law because of Saturday Sabbath.
They want everyone to obey the law concerning that particular day, otherwise that person is breaking the law. But they don't care about the other laws, because they all break them. Everyone is a sinner.
If it wasn't for Jesus who died for our sins, we would be heading to hell, and yet they do not believe in people been punish in hell. To them everyone gets the same judgment, death.
---Luke on 3/11/15


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Haz27:

You wrote: It's legalists who hate. They preach condemnation for failure to obey the law.
Christians however, love others, preaching and showing the same grace to others as they received from God.


Unfortunately, many who call themselves Christians are, in fact, legalists.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/15


Christians are to follow Jesus. Not live in sin and hatred of others---Samuelbb7

It's legalists who hate. They preach condemnation for failure to obey the law.
Christians however, love others, preaching and showing the same grace to others as they received from God.

And yes, Christians are commandment keepers. And what are the two commandments?
See 1John 3:23
1:Believe in Jesus
2:Love one another

BTW, I was asking you to explain what you think it means to "establish the law". Legalists always bring up this verse and I'm simply asking what you think it means?
---Haz27 on 3/10/15


Haz27 Paul said Jesus established the law. I had nothing to do with that.

I am not a legalist. Salvation is by Grace not works. But those who do not follow GOD are not saved. That does not mean they are perfect but they love others and so keep the law of GOD.

IJohn 2. Romans 13, John 14.

Show your points by giving scripture. Christians in the above are called Commandment keepers.

Christians are to follow Jesus. Not live in sin and hatred of others.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/10/15


(Romans 2:14-15)
14 For when the (Nations,Ethnos), who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, they, not having the law, are a law unto themselves,

15 which shows the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts between accusing and excusing one another.
---David on 3/10/15

Am sure you are right. Notice that this verse in Romans verifys the New Covenant and exposes the hand of man. Also 8:10 does not say: "and Judah". It is the Nth House of Israel...which is the Ethnos/nations in Romans.
Heb 8:10 ... house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: ...
---Trav on 3/10/15


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The heart they are written on is what I consider.-Trav

(Romans 2:14-15)
14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, they, not having the law, are a law unto themselves,

15 which shows the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts between accusing and excusing one another.


Trav
Have you ever noticed how it pains the heart when you are bothered by your conscience?
This is what I believe God means, when he says he will write it on our hearts.
---David on 3/10/15


If they were binding, when God wrote them in stone for the children of Abraham, wouldn't they be binding, when God writes them on your heart?
Think about it.
---David on 3/8/15

The heart they are written on is what I consider. This is where they will or will not be found.

Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 3/9/15


"People who don't think that Satan has been defeated don't believe in Jesus' work on the cross. They are Manichaens, and not Christians."

You are correct. The power of the devil was death. Because of him death came to man. But Jesus defeated death with His resurrection, and now all those who are now born of the Spirit they too will one day resurrect. His death on the cross followed by His resurrection now gives life to all those who are called by God, the called out ones who truly make up what is called the true Church of Christ.
---Luke on 3/9/15


Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law--Samuelbb7

How do you plan to establish the law?
By the PERFECT obedience it requires?

BTW, since you and other legalists here preach the law then have you sinned even ONCE since receiving Christ?

If so then you are a servant of sin (John 8:34) and of the devil (1John 3:8).

Only PAST sin was remitted at the cross, Rom 3:25.

BUT for those who believe on Jesus, we cannot be charged with sin (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1).

Whilst both legalists and Christians are imperfect in behavior, the Christians are covered by Christ with his righteousness/holiness/sinlessness.
---Haz27 on 3/9/15


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Good point Cluny.

All the Bible comes from the Jews. We follow a Jewish Messiah. If you reject the Ten Commandments for being given to Israel. Then you need to reject the whole Bible.


2Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
---Samuelbb7 on 3/9/15


\\God gave Israel the laws on stone to see with the eyes because man's heart has grown cold and could not know what God has written on their hearts.\\

If they were written upon stone to be seen with the eyes, why were they kept hidden in the reliquary known as the Ark of the Covenant where nobody could ever see them, Steveng?

Or has your worldly denominational "church" dealt with this issue yet?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/8/15


Lutherist wrote: "God only gave Israel the "TEN COMMANDMENTS"."

God gave Israel the laws on stone to see with the eyes because man's heart has grown cold and could not know what God has written on their hearts.

God chose Israel to bring the laws of God to the world. Of course, they thought it was only for them and disobeyed God's command. Remember the story of Jonah preaching in Ninevah?

"Thou shalt no murder" was in the hearts of man in the beginning. If the laws only existed at the time when Moses gave the tablets then Cain should be vindicated by murdering Able.
---Steveng on 3/8/15


To be under the law means to try to save yourself and depend on the law to save you.

In Grace we are supposed to not sin.
Steven, Rita, Jerry, and David. Great points.

1John 2:1,2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The law is established.
Romans 3:31

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It defines sin.
1John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/8/15


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People who don't think that Satan has been defeated don't believe in Jesus' work on the cross. They are Manichaens, and not Christians.
---learner2 on 3/8/15


Cluny,

God only gave Israel the "TEN COMMANDMENTS". God's LAW is only the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Israel's so-called holy men wrote the rest.

"This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me, TEACHING AS DOCTRINE THE PRECEPTS OF MEN." (Mt 15:8-9)
---Lutherist on 3/8/15


learner2 wrote: "Satan has been defeated. He can't rob you of any gift God has given you."

Take a very good look around you and tell me Satan has been defeated. Satan is still the god of this world today. Since he has only a short time left he will exponentially wreck havoc throughout the world to try to destroy God's creation. Of course, he won't in the end. Christians must endure unto the end.
---Steveng on 3/7/15


The two commandments given by Jesus incorporate the ten given by God to Moses. It is impossible to keep those two if we break any of the the ten.

When we break any of God's laws we KNOW that we have done so because our conscience ensures that we know that. We are obligated to put right our wrongs and, if we do not, we are out of tune with God and will have no real peace.
---Rita_H on 3/8/15


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Cluny: "But there is MORE to the Law than the Decalogue."

Yes, there are other laws, but they are not the subject of discussion here. Try to keep up.



---jerry6593 on 3/8/15


The Protestant churches I have attended don't really seem to know, if the commandments are binding or not.

They preach "We are not under the Law", and at the same time, fight for the Ten commandments in the courts.
If the Law has no value, why do they fight for them?

Are they still binding?
If they were binding, when God wrote them in stone for the children of Abraham, wouldn't they be binding, when God writes them on your heart?

Think about it.
---David on 3/8/15


\\Sauelbb7 is correct. ALL of the Reformers believed that all Christians are bound by the Law (the Ten Commandments).\\

But there is MORE to the Law than the Decalogue.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/15


the Ten Commandments are binding on all Christians---Samualbb7

micha9344 has quoted relevant scriptures that you should note.

Note also that Whatever the law says IT SAYS TO THOSE UNDER IT Rom 3:19.
Christians are NOT under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24, Gal 5:18).

Your claim that the law is binding upon Christians contradicts scripture.
---Haz27 on 3/7/15


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Sauelbb7 is correct. ALL of the Reformers believed that all Christians are bound by the Law (the Ten Commandments). However, only Martin Luther understood exactly what the Apostle Paul meant.

Luther said that there are three ways in which the Law is abused. First, by self-righteous hypocrites who believe that can actually keep the Law. Secondly, by those who claim that they are exempt from the Law. Thirdly, by those who do not understand that the Law is meant to crush us with its impossible demands, and then drive us to our knees and to the grace and mercy in Christ.

When the Law is properly understood and used, its value to save cannot be underestimated. It will bring every sinner to Christ every time.
---Lutherist on 3/7/15


These are the verses which speak of loving God and man Matthew 22:37-41. This verse tells the far reaching importance of those previous verses which are Commandments, KJV 22:40, On these two commandments hang all the law of the prophets. As I said all the Ten commandments are wrapped up in the Law of Love and Christ nailed the hand writing of Ordinances which were against us to the cross with Him. No matter how important the founders and leaders of Denominations were,even though educated, their word is no better than anyone elses and not as good as those led by the Holy Ghost for we are told by God's Word the Holy Ghost will be our teacher.God Bless
---Darlene1 on 3/7/15


Satan has been defeated. He can't rob you of any gift God has given you.
---learner2 on 3/7/15


Satan has had over 2,000 years to infiltrate and divide christiandom up into a whole lot more that 60,000 different worldwide denominations each having there own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Is Christ divided?

The true church of God is not of this world. the true church of God is not built with human hands. The true church of God does not have wealth, no huge bureaucracy, no billions tied up in real estate and bank accounts and no money to maintain these assets. All denominational churches are also nothing more than government owned businesses.

Today's christians need to get back to basics - what they taught in the bible not from a denominational "church."
---Steveng on 3/7/15


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learner2, you are correct about all three brothers. They were at one time all Reformers. The Ten Commandments were given so that we could see our sins against God. The Holy Spirit then convicts the sinner of his sin against God and causes them to repent and come to Christ, the reason they are always binding. If there was no Ten Commandments no one could see their sin against God. Once a believer comes to Christ through repentance, he is no longer a slave to the law, but a slave to Christ.
Many still want to be slaves to the law through ignorance of why the law was given in the first place. A person needs to be born again of the Spirit in order to understand the Old Testament and why the law was given.
---Luke on 3/7/15


You got that right learner.

But they all agreed on the Ten Commandments which makes it an important point.

These men who are highly respected and still considered some of the greatest if not the Greatest Bible teachers in history agree on something. Do you not think it is so easy to understand and so plain that it is true?


Rom 13:8,9

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment,...

Do you know the Ten Commandments?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/7/15


Wesley, Luther and Calvin do not speak with authority. They did not agree with each other about many things.
---learner2 on 3/6/15


True these committed Christians believed that the Bible states the Ten Commandments are binding on all Christians.

They have many Bible verses to show this. John Wesley, Martin Luther and Calvin all wrote sermons stating this. In fact we use their arguments to support our position. We did add some new ones. But mostly we look to those who came before us for wisdom.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/6/15


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Even though the Ten Commandments were never to the Gentiles,all the Books of the Old Testament are there as our teacher that we may learn God's ways,His will, and His desire for His people and how we New Testament Christians should behave and live.The Ten Commandments still are obeyed when we live by the Law of Love for they are all wrapped up in our love for God and man. Learning the Ten Commandments give us the guide to desired living. When we love God with all our heart,mind,soul, and strength and our neighbor as ourself then we live the Ten Commandments.
---Darlene_1 on 3/6/15


-If they were of Christ. they would believe this:
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers...
-What is the purpose of the law then?
Gal 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
-The nineteenth century ex-Millerite false prophetess got it all wrong, as did the Pharisees in Jesus' day.
2Co 3:6
---micha9344 on 3/6/15


Whatever the founders of Protestant denominations believed, those were their opinions.
---learner2 on 3/6/15


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