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Once Saved Always Saved

How does the teaching of Once Saved Always Saved make sense after reading the words of 2 Peter 2: 20 - 21.

Please discuss using further scriptures if you have any.

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Amen amen Kathr4453

You have just agreed with what I have been saying. Thank you.

I apologize since I apparently said in the wrong way. But since you are saying what I believe and am trying to say you cannot disagree with your own words and the words of scripture.

So no matter how much a person may say they are saved unless they live in love they are not saved.

The Way of the Cross leads home says an old Song.


1John 2:1-3

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
---Samuelbb7 on 4/2/15


1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Samuel, I think these verses speak for themselves. There is not one single verse we are to HATE anyone, whether they are saved or lost. We are even to LOVE our enemies. So how can one do this??? it's CHRIST IN US, living through us. Those with out Christ in them are in darkness, even as we speak.
---kathr4453 on 4/2/15


1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

All lost are in darkness.


1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
---kathr4453 on 4/1/15


I cannot walk up to a person and say they are lost. That would be judging a person.

Based on Scripture I can say that a person who does not forgive others till they die are lost. That is a catgeory of persons not an individual. I say that because of what Jesus, James and John say. So if I say those who hate and do not forgive are lost that is just agreeing with scripture.

So Kathr a person who hates others is lost and was never saved. But they show they are lost by their actions such as the Klan member.

So any person who says they are saved yet lives in hatred and sin could be lying to you and themselves.

Which means that the saved as shown in Matthew 25 activily love and care for others.

Jesus is risen.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/1/15


Samuel, you will always find those like you describe, re KKK, who claim to be saved. Just because one claims to be saved doesn't make it so. If one is not saved...ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, then they are simply not saved, no matter what they say. So to let those impostors ROB the truth of scripture only show ones lack of discernment in the truth. Obviously many are deceived themselves who will one day say..Lord Lord haven't we this or that, and The Lord will say...I " NEVER" KNEW YOU.. NEVER here means what it means. But in case one needs definition, it means NEVER. If one can be saved and lost, and saved and lost, the word NEVER would not be appropriate. And the word KNEW YOU means more than a casual introduction.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/15




Do you agree...are they saved?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/31/15

How many times must I say this, that God is the judge, not I. It matters not to me what others do, only what I do. I am not to compare myself to others, I compare myself to Jesus and let Jesus judge His servants.

This is where we differ. Grace enables me to live in freedom, not within rules.

Col 2:20-21 "Therefore,if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, (as though living in the world) do you subject yourselves to regulations - Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle"

Jesus did not come to make us right, He came to save us. The unsaved are not wrong, just lost.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/15


Actions show relationships.

Love results in obedience. Which both James and First John emphasizes.

True we are not to judge others. But that does not mean we cannot say this is wrong and you should not do that.

I had a discussion with a member of the KKK. He claimed to be a Born Again Christians who was once saved always saved. It did not matter what he did.

Do you agree?

Also you did not answer my question. If a person refuses to forgive are they saved?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/31/15


Once we are saved, we are saved forever. The bible tells us what is wrong and right. Religion does not do that. The bible is our roadmap for life. If we read it and follow the right road, we won't run into trouble. (As far as right and wrong).
---shira4368 on 3/30/15


If a person never forgives another and refuses to forgive them their whole life. Are they saved?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/27/15

Why do you want to judge conduct and not relationship? Jesus commandments to us were (loosely translated) "You must be born again", "Love God" and "Love others" .

Yet, it is religion that wants definitions of right & wrong, good & bad, saved & unsaved. Jesus told us not to judge each other, yet that is exactly what the Pharisees did and what we Christians today do. We have become "fruit inspectors" but we are still judges of conduct.

Why don't we really love one another, become intimately involved, and assist each other with our relationship to God?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/30/15


The passage alludes to GOD's marriage Law..
---Trav on 3/27/15

However, the passage was written to pagan Romans, such as I was, who were still under judgment to the law before Jesus came.

But now Jesus has came, died and risen, and I have been united with Him in death by the new birth and baptism. As a result, I have been freed from the bondage and judgment of the law.

I can be now wedded to Jesus and He to me.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/30/15




mark e/ kathr: "Why do so many here live before the cross?"

Do you think that God loves us more than those before the cross? Do you think that He values obedience less now --------Do you think that He changed the rules for us? ------
--jerry6593 on 3/22/15

Yes He did take away the OLD to bring in the NEW. The OLD only covered sin for one year, for the blood of bulls and goats could NEVER take away sin. Year after hear after year they were REMINDED of their sin. TODAY, under the NEW, are sin is washed away forever. There is no more remembrance of sin. Today we are sanctified through the BODY of Christ once and for all. "It's finished" Jerry and there is nothing you can add to it. The law is NOT of faith.
---kathr4453 on 3/29/15


However, what about the subject of this blog and your question "So if a person refuses to forgive another person and hates them are they saved"? Can we be saved even if we sin or break the commandments?

I must loudly shout YES.
---Mark_Eaton

I believe I asked this question wrong. Because you have a point about can we be saved.

If a person never forgives another and refuses to forgive them their whole life. Are they saved?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/27/15


The passage describes a woman being freed from marriage by death and relates to us being freed from our marriage to the Law by the death of Jesus and our being buried with Christ.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/24/15

So you are Israel now? Only Israel (all) had the Law. You may actually be in reality, as no one can prove/knows concretely where any of the 10-12 are.
The passage alludes to GOD's marriage Law, the lawful putting away/divorce of Israel. Jer_3:8 ... Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce,
By death of Christ...Free for Remarriage: See Hos_2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever, Matt 10/15 Lost Sheep,Ten Virgins, New Covenant Heb 8:8-10, etc,etc,etc.
---Trav on 3/27/15


\\Brendan: "Where have you seen me write in Latin?"

I haven't. I was responding to your having defended Cluny's use of it.

---jerry6593 on 3/27/15\\

And where have I written in Latin, jerry?

Please give the exact quote.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/27/15


Brendan: "Where have you seen me write in Latin?"

I haven't. I was responding to your having defended Cluny's use of it.

---jerry6593 on 3/27/15


For instance this discussion on the law. It seems we agreed all along...
---Samuelbb7 on 3/25/15

Yes, I think we did. And I must confess that I previously thought you believed "Right living will produce right believing", which I believe is bondage to the Law and contrary to grace.

However, what about the subject of this blog and your question "So if a person refuses to forgive another person and hates them are they saved"? Can we be saved even if we sin or break the commandments?

I must loudly shout YES.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/26/15


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Jerry said, "Brendan: News Flash....

We are no longer in the Dark Ages! Most of us don't read Latin, so why would you write in it?"


Where have you seen me write in Latin? Not on this blog!

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/25/15


My understanding is this: right believing is always followed by right living. If I understand and believe in God's love, grace, and mercy to me, then I will live according to the dictates of Scripture.
---Mark_Eaton

Well I agree 100% with this teaching. Also I agree with your understanding of Romans 13:8-10

I do not always say the same thing in the same way you do. But I believe we have agreed a number of times. Sometimes I think that is because we say it differently.

We disagree on some things but we should be able to discuss those.

For instance this discussion on the law. It seems we agreed all along. Since our understandingis on that Loveing produces right living.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/25/15


Rom 13:8-10 Please read this passage again like I have been saying....
---Samuelbb7 on 3/25/15

"for he who loves another has fulfilled the law" and "therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law".

Did I miss anything?

I am not claiming that you teach being saved by the Law. However, I do think that if you and I read the same passage of Scripture we would come up with two different understandings.

My understanding is this: right believing is always followed by right living. If I understand and believe in God's love, grace, and mercy to me, then I will live according to the dictates of Scripture.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/25/15


Mark eaton

Our love results in living. If I say I love my wife and yet spend no time with her and treat her badly. No matter what I say. My actions show I am lying.

Yes it is love that fuels what I do for GOD and others. Correct because of love I want His purposes and not my own. Which the law tells me what those purposes are and what He wants.

I have said this many times. You keep ignoring what I am saying.

Since I am using your own words and agreeing with what you are saying maybe this time you will understand.


Rom 13:8-10 Please read this passage again like I have been saying.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/25/15


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\\ Most of us don't read Latin, so why would you write in it?\\

jerry, please tell me what Latin term I've used.

Most words in English of spiritual or theological significance come from Latin (spiritual, for example) or Greek (theological).

Even the "Bible to which you constantly appeal is a Greek word.

The Rapture before the Millennium spent in heaven (an SDA) doctrine comes from 2 Latin words.

Even the book of Acts and Revelation in the NT are Latin words. So is the book of Numbers in the NT.

Does the SDA Church have an official hymnal? Even that word comes from Latin.

In other words, jerry, get the plank out of your own eye first.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/25/15


Chuck Swindall teaches That those who don't live for him are not saved...
---Samuelbb7 on 3/25/15

The issue is not how I live, but how I love. The Christian life is about relationship with God and who we are in Christ, and not about what we do. What we do is only a reflection of how much we love God and trust in what He has said of us.

Look at it this way, if you are married, you serve your wife and her needs out of the love you feel for her, not out of the obligation of being married to her. It is love that fuels the way you treat her.

The Christian life is the same. The greatest commandment is meant to instill in us the love for God so that we want relationship with Him and will want His purposes and not our own.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/25/15


Markeaton
I have Grace you are the one who keep insisting on telling me I teach saved by law. Which you wrong for you do not believe what I write.

Chuck Swindall teaches that a person who is saved lives for the Lord JESUS CHRIST. That those who don't live for him are not saved. This is close to what we teach. It is called Lordship Salvation by some.

So if a person refuses to forgive another person and hates them are they saved?

Luke. I believe in the everlasting punishment of death. Just as the Bible says. I do not believe in everlasting torturing punishing.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/25/15


Samuel, you did not answer me, do you believe in the words of Jesus or not? Which really means, do you believe in Jesus? That is the question. It is not about Sodom and Gomorrah, it is about whether the punishment is everlasting or not? You say it is not, Jesus said it was everlasting, so who is lying? Think real hard before you answer.
---Luke on 3/25/15


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Brendan: News Flash....

We are no longer in the Dark Ages! Most of us don't read Latin, so why would you write in it?


---jerry6593 on 3/25/15


Jerry said, "Speaking of word games, why does your pseudo-Orthodox cult always use Latin words for spiritual concepts, when English is more universally understood?"

Oh really? English as a language was not formalized, and put to use before Shakespeare. That's late 16th Century.

However Latin (and Greek) have been around since before Jesus was born in the flesh, and the doctrines that the Latin/Greek words define sometime just cannot be put into English words easily.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/24/15


Explain why you say these verse are lies.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/24/15

I never have said that any verse is a lie. I do not say that the Law has been removed or done away with. The Law still exists.

However, Grace is built on top of the Law. The New covenant is built on top of the Old. Grace would not matter without the knowledge of sin.

Think of it as layers, like layers of a cake. God laid the first layer that being Christ. Then another layer called law and another layer called grace.

Do you want forgiveness or condemnation? Do you want life or death? Do you want grace or law?

I want grace, forgiveness, and life. You can keep the law, condemnation, and death.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/24/15


Mark_Eaton

You ignore many scriptures.

Yes we are married to Christ. So I agree with what the passage you quoted says.

But you disagree with
Romans 3:31

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Rom 7:6,7,22

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet...

Read Romans 8,13:8-11

Read Fist John. Explain why you say these verse are lies.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/24/15


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Didn't you read what I wrote about Grace and law?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/23/15

Yes, but didn't you read what God wrote about Grace and the Law?

Rom 7: 4 "Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another - to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God"

The passage describes a woman being freed from marriage by death and relates to us being freed from our marriage to the Law by the death of Jesus and our being buried with Christ.

For the Christian there is no Grace and Law. There is only Grace.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/24/15


You cannot believe that a person who lives by grace will not go out and live like the devil.
Mark_Eaton
I believe that a person who lives by grace will not live like the devil.

Didn't you read what I wrote about Grace and law?

I have meet people who believe once saved always and live very Christian lives. I have meet others who live for the devil.

I have never meet a person who supports the law live in outward sin. But some have been judgmental like you.

I love Grace and teach it. I oppose lawlessness.


1Timothy 1:8

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully,


Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 3:31
---Samuelbb7 on 3/23/15


Eternal security depends on (2 Tim 2:15)
Under covenants, salvation from enemies isn't finished: (Luke 1:68-70, Acts 3:19)
Salvation comes in the last time. (1Pet 1:4,9,13, Rom. 11:27, Rev 12:10)
Enduring to the end (Heb 9:28, Luke 21:19, Mark 13:13, Mat 24:13)

Since we are under grace, our present salvation isn't tied to possessions, but is spiritually imputed
Preaching of the cross says salvation is complete: (Col 2:10)
We have the atonement now, not waiting for the day of atonement (Rom 5:11)
Your sins have already been forgiven (Eph 4:32, Col 2:13)
The work has already been done, and you have already been saved (1 Cor 1:18)
Out Apostle makes it plain in Rom. 8
---michael_e on 3/23/15


Does a person who is saved live in sin, by hating their neighbor and disobeying God and saying I am saved to live like a lost person?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/20/15

This is exactly why I say you do not teach grace. You are afraid of it. You cannot believe that a person who lives by grace will not go out and live like the devil.

In my experience, once a person begins to understand and live by grace, they sin less than people who attempt to live by and satisfy the Law.

Did Paul the Apostle go out and willfully sin? He is the one who told us (by the HS) that all things are lawful and that we have been called to liberty. Was he wrong?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/23/15


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"Grace saves, law instructs. Grace redeems, law is a guide. Grace gives power, law is a mirror. Law tells us we are sinners. Grace makes us Saints." ---Samuelbb7 on 3/20/15 Amen, and again, Amen. Well said
---joseph on 3/22/15


mark e & kathr: "Why do so many here live before the cross?"

Do you think that God loves us more than those before the cross? Do you think that He values obedience less now than then? Is there something special about us? Do you think that He changed the rules for us? That He changed His mind? The Bible says the He NEVER changes. Don't you realize that the sanctuary in the OT was but a copy of the temple in heaven, and that the Ten Commandments was a part of both. They are still there in heaven.



---jerry6593 on 3/22/15


Grace saves law instructs. Grace redeems law is a guide. Grace gives power law is a mirror. Law tells us we are sinners. Grace makes us Saints.

The law cannot save, redeem or give power.

Markeaton

Does a person who is saved live in sin, by hating their neighbor and disobeying God and saying I am saved to live like a lost person?


Matthew 1:21

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Are we to be overcomers or defeated by sin?

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/20/15


I love Grace. I preach and teach it. I just don't believe we are meant to live in sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/19/15

Yet you teach people to follow the Law. Which is it? Grace or Law.

Rom 6:15 " What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means"

We are not taught correctly about grace. When we live in grace we experientially know that God loves us, God accepts us, that God's love is not swayed by our sin, and that God will not abandon us. We no longer try to satisfy some requirement we think God wants, we want to please Him because of how much He loves us.

Grace is a totally different mindset.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/20/15


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Christians live under the same laws of the OT. Remember, ALL scripture is for christian's edification. The NT mentions all of the laws in the OT/NT that we are to obey if we Love God (Matthew 19:18, Mark 7:21, Romans 1:29, Galatians 5:21, 1 Peter 4:15). The difference between the OT and the NT is that the laws were of a physical nature in the OT, but of a spiritual nature in the NT. For example, He who hates his brother in his heart is a murderer. (1 John 3:15.
---Steveng on 3/19/15


Very few really understand the meaning of GRACE. GRACE is being baptized into His death and raised a NEW creature. It doesn't mean God just looks the other way once we are saved, but that our old man is continually being CRUCIFIED with Christ. Romans 6-8 Always carrying about in our body the DYING of Christ SO THAT THE LIFE OF CHRIST IS MADE MANIFEST. So when I sing Amazing GRACE, it truly is a amazing How The Lord works in each of our lives HIS life through us. It goes beyond and above keeping any commandments. The commandments keep you earthly bound....GRACE takes you heavenly bound, and is preparing you for heaven. 2 Peter 1 through GRACE we become partakers of HIS divine nature through His precious promises, not law keeping.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/15


I love Grace. I preach and teach it. I just don't believe we are meant to live in sin.

GOD called me from being an agnostic to be a believer in Christ. I love to Sing Amazing Grace becuse it save me the wretch lost in sin.

I simply teach that we are to love others and that results in not just keeping the Ten Commandments Romans 14:23-26 but we help others.

We spread the gospel help the poor work to teach. I teach Special needs children. Why because I love them.

Some who teach grace alone teach also that sin is fine and no problem. Like one young man said if I became a mass murderer it would not matter because He couldn't be lost.

A mass murdered is lost for they do not love your neighbor. First John 2.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/19/15


Why do so many here live before the cross?
---kathr4453 on 3/18/15

I must agree.

We are under grace not Law. We are under a new covenant with better promises. One promise being that we are now righteous because of the blood and death of Jesus. Another promise, God does not remember our sin. Not sins, but sin meaning the whole body of our sin, past, present, and future. Another promise, we have liberty to rest in the grace of God.

This is the essence of the new covenant, that it is built on Jesus and He cannot fail. All we need to do is have faith and rest IN CHRIST. Stop striving. Stop attempting to keep the Law. Accept the grace Jesus died to bring you.

I have found that Law keepers are afraid of grace.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/19/15


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Cluny but you say destroy does not mean destroy and death does not mean death.

Why? Are not the meanings of words important?


Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil,


Rev 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/19/15


cluny: "Distinguishing between "punishment" and "punishing" is merely a word game--a technique of most cults."

And which one do you prefer, cluny?

Speaking of word games, why does your pseudo-Orthodox cult always use Latin words for spiritual concepts, when English is more universally understood?


---jerry6593 on 3/19/15


Agreed Jerry and Rita

Why do so many here live before the cross? The BETTER TESTAMENT sealed in His Blood is AFTER the Cross only to those who have DIED TO SIN, by sharing in His death, being circumcised with the circumcision of Christ....Colossians 2.
kathr4453

We are to die to sin. Which means we do not live in sin we avoid and fight against sin in our lives. Those who do this are saved.

A Christian lives in love. Sinners who think of themselves as Christian live in sin thinking it is okay to do so.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/18/15


\\ So which idea actuall follow the Bible?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/14/15\\

On this matter, NOT the SDA's.

Distinguishing between "punishment" and "punishing" is merely a word game--a technique of most cults.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/18/15


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Thank you Jerry, that is why I asked the question. The two seem to be a massive contradiction.
---Rita_H on 3/18/15


Trav - Sheep are always reflective entire nation of Israel ?
John 10:16 - And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: ... there shall be one fold, ...
---RichardC on 3/17/15

RichardC, on eSword, find Sheep 179 times. Sifts out quickly. Psa_74:1, Psa_78:52, Psa_79:13, Psa_95:7, Psa_100:3, etc,etc.

Next identifying who is, "this fold". Two folds, Nth house of Israel and Judah the Sth House. Ephraim and Manasseh one could say was another fold.
Your scripture given above tells us they will become, "one fold".
So scripture should, Prophet and Apostle and it does. Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31 or two Sticks of Eze 37:16 thru 28. Beauty and Bands Zec 11:7 and 14.
---Trav on 3/18/15


Hebrews 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a SURETY of a better testament.

It may help to find all scripture using the word SURETY, as well as looking up the definition, to get a deeper understanding of who Jesus is in your life. The BETTER TESTAMENT, surpasses the old beyond words.

Just as someone who consigns a loan for you. If you default, the consigner is the SURETY for that loan. Jesus paid our sin debt IN FULL, therefore you can NEVER DEFAULT.

Why do so many here live before the cross? The BETTER TESTAMENT sealed in His Blood is AFTER the Cross only to those who have DIED TO SIN, by sharing in His death, being circumcised with the circumcision of Christ....Colossians 2.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/15


Rita: "Once Saved Always Saved" doesn't make sense anywhere in the Bible. It is a "license-to-sin" ploy used by those who refuse to keep God's simple Ten Commandment Law.



---jerry6593 on 3/18/15


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Trav - Sheep are always reflective entire nation of Israel ?

John 10:16 - And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them I must bring and they shall hear my voice: and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd ,

( Now some have this as the Gentiles - Would this not then lean to both. Gentiles and Jews being referred as Israelite ( Jew ) , Refer - Romans 2:28 -29 ) ?
---RichardC on 3/17/15


Agreed Steveng.

Trav I am not sure if you are agreeing or just saying the meaning of the virgins that I posted is wrong. But your post does not seem to be about the topic. It is also confusing.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/17/15


In the following verses the foolish, and goats think they are saved and call GOD lord.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/16/15

Well, understand the thought but, there are notable differences between tares, sheep, goats and virgins.
The allegory would not be given specifically as such if there were not.
The tares are unbelievers.
Virgins are the Nth house of Israel.
Sheep are always reflective of the entire nation of Israel in scripture if you research the word.
Psa_78:52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
Eze_34:6 My sheep wandered ... my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, none did search or seek after them.
(Few do today)
---Trav on 3/17/15


God is a loving and just God.

At the first resurrection those in Christ shall rise and be saved, not seeing a second death.

At the second resurrection, God will judge those according to their works. Blesses are those that rise in the first resurrection.

Would a loving God put people in "hell" to suffer eternally?

Many verses are written warning believers about backsliding - and in the end days many shall fall away from the faith. One cannot fall away unless he had faith to begin with.
---Steveng on 3/16/15


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Children of the wicked one. Where do you see that they believe they are saved? TRAV.

In the following verses the foolish, and goats think they are saved and call GOD lord. But they do not follow him.

Mat 25:11,12

Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.


Mat 25:44

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/16/15


Then there are tares. Those who believe they are saved but yet do not love others or truly love GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/15/15

They are sown by the enemy. Children of the wicked one. Where do you see that they believe they are saved?

Mat_13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat_13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mat_13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be in the end of this world.
---Trav on 3/16/15


One a Christain always a Christain. Positionally, we have changed: Rom 6:6, 2 Cor 5:17, Eph 4:24 Our condition reverses and changes, but our position is kept by Christ 2 Tim 1:12 Our judgment is rewards, not salvation (a present position): 2Tim 1:12,1Cor 3:14 As a member of a body, our relationship is not something that can be broken
---michael_e on 3/16/15


Josef and com7fy78 I think both of you are correct.

But you are looking at the same coin from two diffrent sides.

Some may say they follow Jesus when they never surrender their hearts to him to be changed into those who strive to be like Jesus.

In the Church there are wheat children of GOD who love and follow Him increasng in love and faith which leads to works as they grow in Christ.

Then there are tares. Those who believe they are saved but yet do not love others or truly love GOD.

Thank you for your points.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/15/15


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1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him: he cannot sin, because he is born of God,

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not:but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not,

Thessalonians 3:3 - But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Romans 8:10 - And if Christ be in you, the Body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness,

Roman 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace,
---RichardC on 3/15/15


Samuel, correction to my previous post. I wrote "all one has to do to be lost, is to willfully and blatantly refuse the Father's prompting to believe...
That should have read all one has to do to remain lost, is to willfully and blatantly refuse the Father's prompting to believe in and acknowledge Jesus as Lord of salvation.... I know someone is thinking, why would anyone refuse Father's prompting? My answer would be they are "of [their] father the devil, and [their] will is to do [their] fathers desires." There are two groups of people on this earth "the children of the kingdom" and "the children of the wicked [one]".
---josef on 3/14/15


It says "if" this happens. Isaiah 55:11 guarantees that God's word "shall accomplish what I please", the LORD says. And I understand this scripture is meant to help make sure this does not happen.

And God's word says, "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) If you are "joined" to Jesus and "one spirit with Him", I offer this union will change your nature so you can not leave Him. But there will be more and more correction > Hebrews 12:6-11 > this correction is included in all that God's word is guaranteed to accomplish in us who are saved.

Also Philippians 1:6, 1 John 2:19.
---com7fy78 on 3/14/15


Good point Cluny.


Matthew 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Being kept alive and tortured is a continous punishing.


Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Punishment is death by fire. Not everlasting torture.


Jde 1:7

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Are these cities still burning? So which idea actuall follow the Bible?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/14/15


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David,

Not only are you incapable of researching your (God's only earthly prophetic) organisation's publications, prompting you to call me a liar in the process, you flounder even understanding plain English when I explain my comment about "tossing Blacks out". Further to my point, I asked "Has God's only appointed organisation tossed out that Blacks are inferior to whites". You call me a liar, once again. Really?!

Please read Zion's Watch Tower, VOL. XXIII. JULY 15, 1902. No. 14., pp. 215-216, which is EASILY located on-line.

Now, what were you saying, David?
---Marc on 3/14/15


Our security should be in Christ, Who is eternal, and not in our own acts of faith.

Note that those whom the King says, "Depart from me, ye cursed," never had their faith questioned. They even called the King "Lord."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/14/15


Samuel, concerning this blog of once saved always saved, it is pretty simple. Either a person has faith in Christ or he doesn't. Either he believes in the promises of God or he doesn't. Either he is saved or he is not. He cannot be saved many times, only one time.
Concerning hell or the lake of fire, Jesus Christ said it was everlasting punishment.
"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
Matthew 25:41.
Do you believe in Jesus or not?
---Luke on 3/14/15


"But does that mean a person cannot choose to be lost? No.
All one has to do to be lost, is to willfully and blatantly refuse the Father's prompting to believe in and acknowledge Jesus as Lord of salvation after receiving the knowledge of that truth. The truth is Jesus saves, and He has said "All those who the Father gives me will come to me. Him who comes to me I will in no way throw out." Salvation is of the LORD. A man cannot gain or lose salvation by anything he does or does not do. Father's children are [spiritually] "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Jhn 1:13
Other refs. Eph. 2:1,5-9>Rom 5:6,8,10>Jhn 6:63>Rom 3:24>Rom 11:6>Tit 3:56:28,29>Rom 4:16
---josef on 3/14/15


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Some are saved from the commandments doctrines of men vomit.

Turn to The way of Righteousness, The Acts Church of The Living God which are few peoples. Mat.7 v 14.

Then there are some that get back under the influence of 2nd.Cor.11 v 14 vomit of enjoying sinning, commandments doctrines of men the 3 persons godhead Rev.17 vs 4 5 6, j witness, other, John 10 v 1, Which are many, Mat.7 v 13. It's their choice.

Glory to God The Father which Is & who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 3/13/15


Josef you wrote correct words.

But does that mean a person cannot choose to be lost?

How about a person who says they follow Jesus but who are all about themselves and do not care for others? Can a person who is prideful, unforgiving, despises others and helps no one be saved?

Now a point can be made they were never saved in the first place. But I have met people who despise the poor yet feel they as being rich are blessed of GOD and are saved.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/13/15


Luke you are switching the topic of this blog.

The Doctrine of Eternal hell teaches that all humans are cast into the Lake of Fire where they are horribly tortured forever. Including small children. Unless you change that doctrine according to your words you cannot believe in Hell.

We believe each is punished for what they did then die.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/13/15


Rita_H Jesus " is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Heb 7:25
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1Pe 1:5
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." Jhn 10:29
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jde 1:24,25
---josef on 3/12/15


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Samuel, God is just, and fair. We know everyone sins against God, some more then others. No matter how you analyze the concept of hell, or how it sounds to us that it is a place of cruel and unusual punishment. However we can take comfort in the concept of hell, because we can take it in full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. Cruelty in this sense is unjust. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right.
God is not going to kill anyone, they are there forever.
The world believes they just die. All the same punishment. But you are very wrong.
---Luke on 3/13/15


Hello Geraldine

This is a lot of scripture that shows each person will be punished only for what they did and not burn for all eternity in a lake of fire. They will die there.

I am glad Luke you agree that GOD punishes each justly. But the doctrine of Eternal Burning hell does not allow you to have that view. You must reject it to get the view you believe.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/12/15


Rita, 2 Peter 2:20,21 is referring to people who hear the gospel truth and know the way of salvation and then reject that truth, it is better that they had never heard about the gospel for knowing about the gospel and rejecting it is worse then if they never heard of it.
It is worse to know and reject then to have never known about the Lord.
In hell there is degrees of punishment. People are not punished the same. God is Just and would never punish someone for something they never did but punish them for something they did do, sin against God.
The passage is not about Once Saved always saved.
---Luke on 3/12/15


How does the teaching of Once Saved Always Saved make sense after reading the words of 2 Peter 2: 20 - 21.
---Rita_H on 3/11/15

I have used Luke 8, the Parable of the Sower to understand how belief, acceptance, faith, and salvation works in us.

As I have stated before, in Luke 8 Jesus describes four places (peoples hearts) where the seed of His gospel lands and in three of the four, the seed begins to grow. But only in one does the plant mature and eventually bear fruit. Passages talking about falling away describe the two places were the seeds do not mature.

We may not know which of the three other people are. But according to Romans 8:16-17, we can certainly know which of the three we ourselves are.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/12/15


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I believe the God I love will not allow any of the children he created, and loves, to be burned alive forever in a hell he created for them in advance. Each created child will have multiple chances to accept his offer(s) of eternal life, and without human reincarnation. Any other way makes human beings toy puppets in God's toy box, not beloved creations. I have no scripture reference, only my heart.
---Geraldine on 3/11/15


Once saved. always saved depends on right division.
Israel's enemies is not finished: Luk 1:68-70, Acts 3:19
Grace salvation is not tied to possessions, but is spiritually imputed
The preaching of the cross says salvation is already complete: Col 2:10
We have the atonement now, not waiting for the day of atonement - Rom 5:11
The difference between us, the boC, and Abraham is ours is past tense - Rom 4:19-25
Your sins have already been forgiven Eph 4:32, Col 2:13
The work has already been done, and you have already been saved 1 Cor 1:18 Impossible to Reverse
---michael_e on 3/11/15


There's a difference between once saved always saved and once PRAYED always saved.

But this is apparently too subtle for many people to grasp.

Even St. Paul talks about the salvation TO BE REVEALED.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/11/15


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