Explain Hebrews 12:4
...2 - A leader savior of a particular group - ( Sheep I would think ? )
---RichardC on 3/18/15
Hey Rich, we've been taught, i was taught that Judah/jews equal all Israel.
Its not correct. Judah was Christ's own that he come to first but, they would have him not. The "lost Sheep" are the Northern House of Israel. When one discovers them in prophecy and in the N.Testament covenant all scripture starts making sense.
False replacement doctrines we are taught today have no prophets verifying them...anywhere.
Christ doesn't and the Apostles honor both prophets and Christ. Our Denom's in ignorance do not.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 3/18/15|
Isaiah 53:6 - All we like sheep have gone astray : we turned every one to his
own way: and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all,
1 Peter 1:11 - Searching what, or what manner of time the spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified before hand the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow,
( Messiah )
1 - The promise deliver of the Jewish nation in the Hebrew bible,
2 - A leader savior of a particular group - ( Sheep I would think ? )
---RichardC on 3/18/15|
Hebrews 12: 2 Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of OUR faith ( as WE identify with Him in death and resurrection life) He was willing to die a shameful death on the cross because of the joy he knew would be his afterwards, and now he sits in the place of honor by the throne of God. Also parallels Philippians 2 when Paul said..."keeping this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus" ...br>
3 If you want to keep from becoming -----4 After all, you have never yet struggled against sin and temptation until you sweat great drops of blood.
..I am Crucified with Christ.....NO OT scripture revealed this "mystery of OUR identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life." This IS the Mystery michael_e.
---kathr4453 on 3/16/15|
Michael_e, sad is your understanding of the Mystery you believe consists of only Gentiles now saved. God told Abraham in the OT Gentiles would be saved. No HIDDEN mystery here. Colossians 1 clearly tell us WHAT the Mystery is....CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY. If you understood GLORY, and sharing His glory, never promised to OT, then you would understand we share His GLORY, because we first shared His DEATH. The Mystery is our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life, making us a NEW creature! never promised to Adam and Eve or any OT Saints. His BODY, that is us, the CHURCH is made up of ONLY those who have chosen to be crucified with Christ...and raised up WITH HIM a New creature, who alone will share HIS glory. John 17.
---kathr453 on 3/16/15|
I treat the Hebrew epistles, just as the OT. As there is no Church language as the boC or Paul's Gospel.
Hebrews 12:4 I believe its speaking of the sweat drops of blood that came on His brow as He was approaching the work of the cross
---michael_e on 3/16/15|
I have no dogmatic position on this. But I thnk of Jesus in Gethsemane who resisted the call for him to not follow GOD until he sweat drops of blood.
It can also refer to those who were martyred for their faith for resting to give into sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/15/15|
I don't think you can take one single verse here re: verse 4 and come to any truthful deep conclusion of what the author was saying. I believe you need to read the WHOLE chapter. Just like you really can't intelligently understand Hebrews 10 unless you read the WHOLE chapter.
---kathr4453 on 3/14/15|
I think he means that Satanic people do shed the blood of people who stand against sin, and the people who got this message had not yet so resisted sin.
This includes how in us we say no to sinful things and we pray effectively against Satan's kingdom. And our example fights, effectively, more than any words we say :)
And the ones getting this message were staying comfortable with religious Jewish stuff, so they could fit in, maybe.
Now, ones can use psychiatry to excuse sin in our personalities. We need to call whatever in us that is not gentle and humble sin, and pray against it.
---com7fy8 on 3/14/15|
"What does this verse mean? Hebrews 12:4"
It means that no matter what we have gone through, or what we may go through, Jesus has gone through worst, and the believer should consider that, and look to Him "the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame. Lest [we] become weary and discouraged in [our] souls", and grow "weary in well doing."
---joseph on 3/13/15|
Hebrews 12 from verse 1 is about our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. HE IS the author and finisher of our faith in this identification. God scourges every son to become partakers of His Holiness. If you are without scourging, you simply are not a son. Through this time of scourging, we are being conformed to His death, our faith endures, as we look to Jesus who is designing our sufferings and knows exactly what each individual needs to bring us forth as Gold. 1st Peter 4. Peter, Paul, John, James ALL give encouraging scriptures as well as Hebrews concerning our faith and the rewards of endurance through the fellowship of His sufferings...Phil 3, Count it all JOY....James 1..John 6, to eat my flesh and drink my blood.
---kathr4453 on 3/12/15|
This is a summary statement from Ch 11 and Ch 12:1,2. That you also can be like the great heroes of faith in Ch 11 and the greatest hero Jesus. At this time persecution was growing against the church, this is a reminder that like Jesus he to suffered at the hands of evil doers, but he stayed true to his calling even to the point of death.
---Scott1 on 3/12/15|