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Finish It Here April 2015

Finish It Here April 2015

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Kath you ask "And why do you think Jesus suffering automatically means that sin was possible?" Already asked and answered.
---Warwick on 4/13/15


Warwick, we know scripture tells us it was Eve who was deceived, and that was because as some interpret, that Eve was the weaker vessel. But to say that Jesus was the weaker vessel and compare Him to Eve, again is not scriptural. Satan never challenged Adam, and we see Adam sinned willfully, and not out of temptation.

Adam was the head of all humanity, therefore in Adam all die. And IN CHRIST, will all be made alive. But that New Life Warwick is also a life not of this world. I believe this link of truth is missing from your building blocks.
---kathr4453 on 4/14/15


Warwick, The SON of man is The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. And why do you think Jesus suffering automatically means that sin was possible? That is your straw man creation that YOU are having a hard time trying to grasp. God Being in the form of a man who could suffer and die, does not prove in any way that His FORM, capable of suffering and dying was also capable of sin. Angels have no flesh, CORRECT, nor suffer in any form of the flesh, CORRECT, yet sinned and rebelled against God. So this peculiar idea you have that only flesh can sin is not scriptural. Jesus endured suffering FOR us! to be an example FOR us? Not some test to see if He would sin. 1Peter 4:1. Just because Jesus died for us, still does not prove Jesus could sin.
---kathr453 on 4/13/15


Matthew 4:5-7

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.


Don't you just LOVE Jesus answer here? Which one of US could answer satan back with that one???
---kathr4453 on 4/13/15


Kath, again I ask you to answer my questions. When you do so I will be happy to continue this fascinating dialogue.

Who was born of Mary? Was it eternal God who is Spirit, not flesh. Or was it Man who is flesh?

Why do you think Jesus was called both Son of God (therefore God) and Son of Man (therefore man)?

Hebrews 2:18 "For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

If Jesus could not sin, as you claim, why then did He suffer when being tempted?

BTW where have I said "the ONLY DIFFERENCE, Between Adam and Jesus was that Adam sinned and Jesus did not?"
---Warwick on 4/13/15




Warwick, you stated earlier the ONLY DIFFERENCE, Between Adam and Jesus was that Adam sinned and Jesus did not. Do you honestly believe this was the ONLY difference between them? So are you saying ADAM was also God incarnate in the flesh? I can go on here and name probably over 100 differences between Adam and Jesus. The first Adam was earthly, the Last Adam was heavenly. The first Adam was CREATED, the Last Adam was not. And just with the start of these two glaring differences we also have Jesus saying those who eat my flesh and drink my blood will I raise up in the last day. Could Adam ever make such promise ? Or would that be blasphemy???? yet Jesus could and it it not blasphemy. Jesus while in His flesh said I AM THE RESURRECTION.
---kathr4453 on 4/13/15


Warwick, did Jesus do battle without even one the following? Since He came full of Grace and TRUTH, as we see He rebuked with TRUTH....

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness,

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace,

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: (and the WORD was made flesh.)
---kathr4453 on 4/13/15


Kath, no matter what you write I do respond to topics raised and do answer questions. You don't as the record shows.

Please re-ask any question of yours which you say I have not answered and I will answer.

Now please answer mine:

Who was born of Mary? Was it eternal God who is Spirit, not flesh. Or was it Man who is flesh?

Why do you think Jesus was called both Son of God (therefore God) and Son of Man (therefore man)?

Hebrews 2:18 "For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

If Jesus could not sin, as you claim, why then did He suffer when being tempted?
---Warwick on 4/13/15


Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Well, this verse DID answer one question....the Son of man IS LORD. AND I thoroughly answered why Jesus suffered. The problem is Warwick, because you have spent your whole life on proving 24 hour days, you have been left behind so to say. 1st Peter 4... Another concerning the sufferings of Christ and how it relates to us. YET we all know Jesus didn't suffer in the flesh so He could cease to sin. But I have some idea you have no Idea what " the fellowship of His sufferings" is about in the first place. Phil 3. OR Phil 2... keeping this mind in you that was also In Christ Jesus... Without that understanding Warwick, you will never understand anything.
---kathr4453 on 4/12/15


Warwick, Is pretending you aren't getting answers from us a game you all have been taught to play...EVADING OUR ANSWERS, AND QUESTIONS? I do believe it is Warwick, as you have not responded to any of my answers, but ask the exact questions again and again. Either there is a blindfold over your eyes, or you are just playing games. And this you have been doing for years and years here.

The Son of man IS LORD..... even of the Sabbath. So what part of LORD don't you get? or does the name LORD hold a different definition for you.
---kathr4453 on 4/12/15




Colossians 2:9

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And here is my final answer Warwick. What verse can you show where Jesus only possessed 1/2 the fullness of God and 1/2 the fullness of man. This is what you are saying...correct? But scripture disagrees with you.
---kathr453 on 4/12/15


Kath, your style is to be evasive. Quite common here. You fail to answer questions, ignore Scriptures quoted and roll on to what you think is your next good point.

Again I ask:

Who was born of Mary? Was it eternal God who is Spirit, not flesh. Or was it Man who is flesh?

Why do you think Jesus was called both Son of God (therefore God) and Son of Man (therefore man)?

Hebrews 2:18 "For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

If Jesus could not sin, as you claim, why then did He suffer when being tempted?
---Warwick on 4/12/15


James 1:13?.......for God cannot be tempted with evil, ......

Warwick, just because satan may have thought Jesus was weakened by His incarnation, doesn't make it so. Satan still knew Jesus, who is God, outranked him before His incarnation. Even the demons obeyed Jesus and knew who He was while Jesus was in the flesh. The greatest of all Jesus sufferings was not the 40 days, but the cross. BOTH proved the POWER of GOD. Neither in the wilderness or the cross, was God or the Holy Spirit biting their nails. The OT foretold of Jesus resurrection, of which would not be possible had or could have Jesus sinned. The SON of Man is a TITLE Warwick, and in no way even suggests the possibility of sin.
---kathr4453 on 4/12/15


Matthew 12:8

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Again Warwick, you need to do more studying.
---kathr4453 on 4/12/15


Kath let me ask you two pertinent questions:

Who was born of Mary? Was it eternal God who is Spirit, not flesh. Or was it Man who is flesh?

Why do you think Jesus was called both Son of God (therefore God) and Son of Man (therefore man)?
---Warwick on 4/12/15


Warwick, we see even Job suffered, but yet did not sin.

When you say "Jesus the man" are you saying He was not also God while on earth? while on earth Jesus was both fully God and fully man, unlike anyone before or after. So to put Him as equal to Adam before Adam fell, as you must be doing is not scriptural. Jesus was not formed out of the dust of the earth.

You have a peculiar view of who Jesus is. And you forget Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. Adam 1 could never do that. You believe the WORD MADE FLESH, would actually what...curse God, bow to Satan????

His suffering was for our sake, the captain of our faith made perfect through suffering. Just another spiritual point you fail to grasp.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/15


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And just to remind you Warwick, Adam 1 did not SUFFER any temptation to sin. There was no suffering involved with Adams sin! who was fully man. So your idea that suffering leads to temptation to sin is not even founded in Adam 1's sin. Eve didn't suffer either when she was tempted. Hebrews 2 clearly say Jesus came to deliver us from death that Adam 1 brought on man...it doesn't say " SO THAT HE WOULD TRY HIS DARINGNESS to deliver us from death.
---kathr453 on 4/11/15


Cluny, please do not hold back, just tell me what I am!
---Warwick on 4/11/15


\\Don't worry about my Spiritual discernment it works fine. I have easily discerned what you are!
---Warwick on 4/10/15
\\

But apparently you've not discerned what you yourself are.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/15


Warwick:

You posted your question on several blogs. I answered in another one. Excuse me for not repeating myself in all of them. Why are you SO OBSESSED with this issue? It's almost as if you think that one's salvation rests on believing the way you do.

I answer as a mathematician, basing my answer on information available, and not making assumptions or taking things for granted that aren't there. You obviously have a more flexible standard of truth.
---StrongAxe on 4/10/15


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Kath, Jesus the man was capable of sin, as Scripture shows (read it again) because it says He resisted temptation. If He was incapable of sin, sin would therefore be no temptation to him, but Ephesians 2:18 says He suffered when tempted. Therefore He could sin, but didn't. Once again if this is not so Paul has written falsehood. Has he?

Of course Jesus did not have a sin nature, and I explained why yesterday. It appears you don't read, or understand what I have written. Maybe I am just too spiritually deep for you?

1 John 2:1 shows that those born of God can sin. If they can't as you claim then John has written a falsehood. Has he?

Did I say Jesus was born of God, as we are?
---Warwick on 4/11/15


Warwick, concerning 1 John, you failed to read the whole of what I said, and try to create a straw man argument on your inability to read. I do not believe Jesus who is God was ever born of God the way we are. SCRIPTURE makes this statement about us, who is merely man, still having a sin nature. I said, HOW MUCH MORE, Jesus being GOD cannot sin.

Just because The WORD was made flesh for the suffering of death, He did not inherit a sin nature as you and I do. Sin comes from the heart, not the epidermis. I stand by God's word, again whether you understand it or not. Like I said, I only point out what GOD said. Scripture does not contradict itself, however our ignorance to understand spiritual things will contradict God.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/15


Hebrews 4:10

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


It appears some here are trying to compare apples to oranges. Here is a puzzle.

Read Hebrews 4 again, and again specifically looking at the verse pointing to creation. To enter His REST, means salvation. NOW does this mean that people can only be saved on the 7th day of each week? OR does it mean that any day any time any week any minute, day or night one can ENTER HIS REST.

This has NOTHING to do with Keeping the sabbath. Also note in Genesis there is no evening and morning mentioned. Interesting isn't it.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/15


The 7th day is the only day we see in Genesis creation that does not say, and the EVENING AND THE MORNING WERE THE 7th DAY.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
---kathr453 on 4/10/15


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Kath you quoted 1 John 3:9 KJV "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin,. and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." This does appear to say they cannot sin, as you say.

Unless John contradicted himself you have a problem because 1 John 2:1 makes it clear that those born of God can sin. The answer lies in the underlying Greek of 1 John 3:9 which says those born of God do not continue to practice sin.

So there is no contradiction as John wants that we would not sin as a practice (as we did before salvation) but that if we do slip and sin we have an advocate in Jesus Christ! And praise God for that.
---Warwick on 4/10/15


Kath, like StrongAxe you attempt to avoid answering any question which challenges your nonBiblical beliefs.

You say God had not worked since finishing Creation. But He obviously has. Otherwise who brought the plagues upon the Egyptians? Who killed the firstborn male of man and animals? Who created the manna for them to eat in the desert? Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?

That you will not answer this shows you have no answer which doesn't destroy your fable.

Don't worry about my Spiritual discernment it works fine. I have easily discerned what you are!
---Warwick on 4/10/15


John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
-God seemed to be still working in Jesus' day(notice the definition by context).
-Maybe a clue would be the past tense usage in Gen 2:2 - ended, rested.
-God finished what He has started, rested, then moved on.
-He is still working today.
Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Psa 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.
Hab 1:5, Act 13:41
---micha9344 on 4/10/15


Certainly God rested from His creating, for 1 day, as it was finished. But as anyone can see He continued working,...

---Warwick on 4/10/15

Warwick, it appears you have a problem rightly dividing spiritual discernment. Just because you cannot reconcile scripture with scripture, does not mean others can't. It just means YOU can't. You need to go to The Lord in humble prayer and ask HIM these questions you are having issues comprehending. You can't discern between the literal and spiritual. ENTERING HIS REST, is the spiritual realm of God who has no beginning or end of DAYS. We have been created IN Christ unto good works that He has before ordained that we should walk in. Yet these works we walk in are not creating anything.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/15


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Kath, I have never called Jesus a liar. Simply bizarre!

Again I ask "who provided the manna and the quail His people ate in the desert, who held back the sea for them to pass through, who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? You said they ate Jesus in the desert and I am irrational?"

You ducked the question, selecting only quail, to avoid a real answer! The questions was: Who brought the quail for His people to eat?

Certainly God rested from His creating, for 1 day, as it was finished. But as anyone can see He continued working, as Jesus says, John 5:17. But of course you ignore this.

You also ignore "1 John 3:9? What about 1 John 2:1?" Why? Because it contradicts your view.
---Warwick on 4/10/15


Hebrews 4:10

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. DID IS PAST TENSE pointing to the 7th day.


Warwick, I believe the real issue here is the natural mind does not understand spiritual things. Here in this verse, the sabbath day and keeping of it is not the issue, Entering His rest, and ceasing from works is.

God from the very beginning of creation, as we see Hebrews 4 also speak of is pointing to the finished works of Christ and SALVATION through FAITH in the finished works of Christ, just as is explained in Hebrews 3-4.

The problem is with your lack of understanding of these scriptures.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/15


1 Corinthians 10:4

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Warwick, you may also scoff that Jesus was that water they drank in the wilderness. But tell us, how many ROCKS have you seen follow you around and give forth water?

And you scoff and call irrational that Jesus was also the Manna? Has Manna EVER fallen from heaven since, or before?
---kathr453 on 4/10/15


Warwick, Jesus in John 6 said HE WAS that bread that came down from heaven. So again you call Jesus a liar. And weren't quails created in the first 6 days of creation? God Himself said he rested from all his works that He had done, and Hebrews 3-4 explain we are to enter HIS rest! again you simply fail to grasp the spiritual depth of HIS Meaning, not yours. Now I have answered these questions over 100 + times over the last 11 years on CN. Warwick, Show where Paul,or any of the Apostles even once made 24 hr days the most important doctrine? I believe the Preaching of the CROSS is the most important, and that includes ENTERING HIS REST. IT IS FINISHED Warwick, and no works of any of your labor can add to or ensure your salvation.
---kathr4453 on 4/9/15


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Kath I have answered all your points, and your questions. But you ignore what I write and moved onto something else. And you have not answered my questions.

However you believe I have not answered one of your questions. Please pose it and I shall do my irrational best.

As to one of my questions you avoided: The foundation for your false belief rests (no pun intended) upon your claim God that has been at rest since finishing His Creation. So I asked, quite a few times: who provided the manna and the quail His people ate in the desert, who held back the sea for them to pass through, who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? You said they ate Jesus in the desert and I am irrational?

Answer the question please.
---Warwick on 4/9/15


Warwick, each of your posts are becoming more and more irrational, making no sense whatsoever. I asked you a question, you have avoided over and over, but chose to hide behind your own irrational smoke screen to avoid. I have stated nothing, because "kathr said so". I have only quoted scripture because GOD said so. Grow up Warwick. You've made ridiculous accusations that I don't believe in Adams sin, or resurrection......because somehow I believe God rested on the 7th day from all his works? Are you really serious here? Please tell us you are not.
---kathr4453 on 4/9/15


Kath, nonsense!

Genesis 1:3-5 God created light bringing about daytime and night-time, evening and morning, day one-first ever day but it wasn't Kath says so ! Maybe He just imagined He did it, or was tired and not up to it?

Then we read "There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day." Lo and behold God had finally managed it and a 24hr day appeared! Because Kath says so.

But confusingly (if you are correct) in Exodus 20:8-11 God said His people must work 6-days and rest the 7th because He created in 6-days and rested the 7th day. But this makes no sense at all because (if you are correct) He didn't create in 6-days at all.
---Warwick on 4/9/15


Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Warwick, THIS is what I said, and THIS is what I believe. O, I get it, you didn't know this verse was in scripture correct. YOU forgot this one? Only verse 3 you remember? This particular verse says nothing about sanctifying it, or using it as some example for Moses under the Law. According to you, this verse is some mistake accidentally added to the original transcripts or some nonsense ..right? We see EACH reverse says something specific. THIS one says not only did He END His work, but rested from all this works He had made. Is God STILL creating universes Warwick, with more humans?
---kathr4453 on 4/9/15


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Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours, and their works do follow them.

Here is a verse Warwick you should really meditate on. Don't trouble yourself with commentaries to find the meaning. remember, those who first received this letter needed no commentary to explain this. Since you've decided you are superior to anyone in understanding, meditate first, and then ask others what GOD has revealed to them about this verse.

Yet we see one glaring truth here, that this is about man. If you can't grasp this concerning man, what makes you think YOU can grasp REST concerning GOD?????
---kathr453 on 4/9/15


2 Peter 3:5-7

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


Warwick, what do these verses mean to you. Possibly that before the flood, a day was not as it is today? Only after the flood is a day as you define 24 hrs even mentioned. Not before.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/15


\\Answer the question: "Please tell me what time period other than one earth-rotation 24hr day has a period of daylight and a period of darkness, and an evening and a morning?\\

Well, according to two places in the Bible, a day with God has about 365,000 evenings and mornings--at least.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/8/15


Kath, your beginning claim was that God hasn't worked since day 6 of creation. This is incorrect as Jesus tells us-John 5:17. Your foundation is wrong therefore your belief is wrong. Read about false foundations- Matthew 7:26.

1 Corinthians 15:21-23, and Romans 5:12-21 show the only foundation for the gospel, why Jesus came to die and rise again is because of Adam's sin. If we do not believe that Adam, in real, history sinned why believe Jesus rose again physically? Because Scripture says so? If we don't take Genesis 1 as written why take Genesis 3 etc. as written?

Relevantly Romans 1:20 says that God can be clearly seen and understood by His Creation.

1 John 3:9? What about 1 John 2:1?
---Warwick on 4/8/15


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It appears Genesis says God DIVIDED the light from darkness before any sun was even mentioned, much less the earth rotating around the sun creating 24 hour days or the source that we today have as the source of light. So Warwick, you are saying the earth was orbiting SOMETHING???? before the sun causing 24 hour days that brought about light and darkness as it rotated...OR AS SCRIPTURE STATES, GOD DIVIDED THE LIGHT FROM THE DARKNESS. he divided the waters from the waters on the second. And the second day was the firmament created called heaven where our stars moon and sun were put into place, but not until the 4th day. There again an evening and a morining without the sun. So there is NO proof of any 24 hr days until the 4 th day.
---katnr4453 on 4/8/15


StrongAxe, you duck and weave knowing you cannot answer my simple question because an honest answer would utterly destroy your story. You call yourself Strong but when put to a little test you show yourself weak.

Answer the question: "Please tell me what time period other than one earth-rotation 24hr day has a period of daylight and a period of darkness, and an evening and a morning?"

---Warwick on 4/8/15


Warwick, Faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR, and the evidence of things not seen. This evidence of things not seen has nothing to do with the first creation, but the NEW creation! Of which we have been given spiritual eyes to see..because God HAS revealed them to us through the SPIRIT, not a telescope or geological finds here on earth. We are NOW seated with Christ in HEAVENLY places IN CHRIST. my CAPS are to emphasize, not shout. You're not GROWING UP INTO HIM, as long as you remain obsessed with a 24 hour earthly day. Satan has you chasing your tail. Whether 7 24 hour days or not, is not a prerogative as we are now members of the NEW creation, where ALL is LIGHT and every day is the Sabbath.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/15


Now get the picture that in the Garden (before sin) there was no death mourning, nor crying, nor pain. And that when Christ returns these conditions will again exist as these things of the curse will be no more, see Revelation 21:4. Warwick

Warwick, I honestly don't think you understand that Christ was made a curse for us. It's not just some idea that the curse has lifted. You simply don't grasp what being "IN Christ " means, or that Jesus is head of the New Creation where all things are gathered together IN HIM. Ephesians 2. And IN HIM there is no sin. Never was, never will be, and never even a possibility that Jesus could sin, like you stated on another post. If you don't get this ...you just don't get it at all.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/15


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1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Now Warwick, THIS verse concerns us today! those who are Born Again, and IN Christ. Totally opposite of Adam and Eve. AND if this verse says that "we" cannot sin, being less than God, how much more Jesus who IS God, whether in flesh or in spirit.
---kathr453 on 4/8/15


Kath, the Greek word translated 'restore, restoration, restitution' (depending upon version of the Bible you read) is 'apokatastases' (Acts 3:21) which has a number of meanings depending upon context, and they are 'complete restoration, reestablishment, restitution.' (Bullinger: Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek NT p.643.

Now get the picture that in the Garden (before sin) there was no death mourning, nor crying, nor pain. And that when Christ returns these conditions will again exist as these things of the curse will be no more, see Revelation 21:4.
---Warwick on 4/7/15


Marc:

You asked: Question: What advantage does that have over the orthodox, traditional one in which God worked 6 24-hr ones?

I have no clue. I can't read God's mind. Can you? There are many things God has done that make no logical sense either. Do we dispute those? (e.g. wiping out all creatures just to kill men, rather than sending a plague to kill men only. Creating woman out of man's rib, rather than the same way he created females of other species. Jesus having to heal a blind man twice, because only once didn't quite do it, etc.


Warwick:

As I keep pointing out, without ANY way to measure time, a 100 hour day is just as meaningful as a 24 hour day. You just ASSUME it is 24 hours.
---StrongAxe on 4/7/15


Marc, it is so sad to see a Christian fight so passionately against taking God at His word. He flatly refuses to answer my question which, if answered honestly, will show the unreasonableness of his contention. Nonetheless he continues on with his indefensible fable.

Further to your point consider the Bible says Jesus rose from the dead! Some Christians say He never rose physically, only spiritually. These are intelligent people.

Also consider Adultery, a very popular sport. The Bible forbids it but what does that mean? Maybe we can do it helps the woman we are sleeping with? Maybe it's ok if we keep our eyes closed, or if we are overseas? Why not? BTW do you think infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?
---Warwick on 4/8/15


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Kath, don't vent your spleen on Warwick. You should have a go at Basil who stated,

And there was evening and there was morning:
one day. And the evening and the morning were one
day. Why does Scripture say one day the first day?
Before speaking to us of the second, the third, and
the fourth days, would it not have been more natural
to call that one the first which began the series? If it
therefore says one day, it is from a wish to determine
the measure of day and night, and to combine the time
that they contain. Now twenty-four hours fill up the
space of one day we mean of a day and of a night"

Saint Basil the Great supported the Nicene Creed and opposed the heresies of Arianism.
---Marc on 4/8/15


StrongAxe, five times I asked you the following question, over a week or so: "Please tell me what time period other than one earth-rotation 24hr day has a period of daylight and a period of darkness, and an evening and a morning?"

And you, after all that time, and all that brain-strain came up with "100 hours would work equally well, with no yardstick." This is silly, and only shows how desperate you are to avoid the truth. You would have us believe that 100 hours is composed of "a (1) period of daylight and a (1) period of darkness, and an (1) evening and a (1) morning?"

Answer the question.
---Warwick on 4/7/15


So StrongAxe, let's say that each "day" of the first three weren't 24 hrs long but 6 zillion, gozillion, heptillion hrs long. Let's just say that and really believe it. Let's further believe that the following 4 days are normal 24 hr ones.

Question: What advantage does that have over the orthodox, traditional one in which God worked 6 24-hr ones?
---Marc on 4/7/15


Marc:

You said: Genesis DEFINES a day as an evening and morning.

Precisely. NOT "24 hours".
It also doesn't define "evening" and "morning". We NOW tie these to positions of the sun - meaningless when there is no sun.

I'm claiming that it's debatable whether murder applies in all circumstances because the Bible DOESN'T say that it does

"Don't murder" means "Don't murder" under ANY circumstances. This is elementary Logic 101 and basic use of the English language. You MIGHT discuss just what "murder" means, but you can't say it's ever permissible.


Warwick:

100 hours would work equally well, with no yardstick.
---StrongAxe on 4/7/15


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The CORRECT definition of restore

restore

bring back (a previous right, practice, custom, or situation), reinstate.
synonyms: reinstate, bring back, reinstitute, reimpose, reinstall, reestablish
"the aim to restore democracy"
antonyms: abolish
return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position.
repair or renovate (a building, work of art, vehicle, etc.) so as to return it to its original condition.
"the building has been lovingly restored"
synonyms: repair, fix, mend, refurbish, recondition, rehabilitate, rebuild, reconstruct, remodel, overhaul, redevelop, renovate,
---kathr4453 on 4/7/15


Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,


Here is a most interesting verse. Study it carefully, and meditate on it carefully. Firstly GENERATIONS does not mean a 24 hour day or even 7 24 hour days. But WITH this sentence says IN THE DAY that The Lord made the earth and the heavens. Not in the DAYS.

I assure you Warwick will spew this or that again here at me, but Warwick wants to believe GENERATIONS here actually means "7 24 hour days".

When you are dealing with someone so closed minded and refuse to listen to others, it's evident they are not here to debate, but to brainwash.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/15


Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,


Here is a most interesting verse. Study it carefully, and meditate on it carefully. Firstly GENERATIONS does not mean a 24 hour day or even 7 24 hour days. But WITH this sentence says IN THE DAY that The Lord made the earth and the heavens. Not in the DAYS.

I assure you Warwick will spew this or that again here at me, but Warwick wants to believe GENERATIONS here actually means "7 24 hour days".

When you are dealing with someone so closed minded and refuse to listen to others, it's evident they are not here to debate, but to brainwash.
---kathr453 on 4/7/15


StrongAxe wrote: "You can't just add exceptions. I didn't say God didn't create this or that in a day. It's just debatable as to what "day" ACTUALLY means during the first three day."

Genesis DEFINES a day as an evening and morning. There's nothing debatable about that. You're claiming that there is an exception, that it could mean something else. Of course, you don't give an argument, you just assert it.

Quid pro quo: I'm claiming that it's debatable whether murder applies in all circumstances because the Bible DOESN'T say that it does (and it doesn't ACTUALLY give you a definition in all circumstances) so therefore it's possible that if the chick is hot you can kill her bloke.

Stop the special pleading!
---Marc on 4/6/15


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Whatever way you look at it, it means whatever God does it is perfect. God's perfect creation was corrupted by Adam's sin but will be restored to perfection in heaven.


---Warwick on 4/6/15


You said you did not say this? Ok so what is your other definition of restored mean?
---kathr4453 on 4/6/15


StrongAxe, as the record shows I answer questions and will be very pleased to answer yours, but there is a procedure: I ask a question then you answer it. Then you can ask a question and I will answer it. Too simples!

The question again:
Again "Please tell me what time period other than one earth-rotation 24hr day has a period of daylight and a period of darkness, and an evening and a morning?"
---Warwick on 4/6/15


Marc:

These are false equivalences. You can't just add exceptions. I didn't say God didn't create this or that in a day. It's just debatable as to what "day" ACTUALLY means during the first three day.


Warwick:

If you are so absolutely convinced that "day" must necessarily mean 24 hours, that it's "obvious" from the context, why do are you continuously obsessed with embellishing the Word of God by adding "24 hour" to "day" whenever you quote Genesis 1. God didn't seem to feel the need to do so. Why do you?
---StrongAxe on 4/6/15


Kath, your modus operandi is to bring up some point which you believe undermines your opponent's belief. Then when shown you in fact have no point, no sound argument, do you accept that? No, having no sound argument you simply move on. It is common practice here.

Revelation 21:23 has an interesting message for those who insist the light created in Genesis 1:3 could not have illuminated the world, beginning the 24hr day cycle, on day 1. It is clear from 21:23 that the Lamb, our Creator and Saviour Jesus will be the light of heaven. No sun will be necessary! And they think He could not have illuminated the world! Such faith!

Who said that the old earth would be restored? Not me!
---Warwick on 4/6/15


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Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, ...

...but something so NEW, not even a sun moon or 24 hr day will be necessary.
Can the NEW be understood without the old? No!
---kathr4453 on 4/6/15

You've probably capped the poser down under, pursuit of arguing for the adversary's cause. He likes dwelling in Genesis where it is a little shadowy an speculation can percolate. He will not speculate in this Revelation city. He shouldn't by the Rev 22:19 warning.
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
---Trav on 4/6/15


Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


We know in the New Heaven and earth, there will be no 24 hour days with light and darkness. And as Haz27 also,pointed out, Jesus being the Light of the world here today is also a fact now revealed. God is light and in Him is no darkness. The New heaven and earth is not a RESTORED old, but something so NEW, not even a sun moon or 24 hr day will be necessary. Not even a seventh day for all will have entered His rest. Can the NEW be understood without the old? No!
---kathr4453 on 4/6/15


Kath , John and Paul are speaking spiritually however the passages you quoted make no sense unless day and night have their normal literal meanings, to be applied to those situations. The NT often uses literal plus application, which does not rule out the literal e.g. Jesus calls Himself a "door" (John 10:7) but we do not imagine He has hinges and a handle! He (just like your quotes say) is using the literal to illustrate the spiritual. He is the "door" which leads people from a place of unforgiveness to a place of forgiveness.

However the original point is Genesis 1:5 which is a daytime, night time evening and morning day which only describes a 24hr day.
---Warwick on 4/5/15


StrongAxe: "It MAY have been 24 hours. We don't know. Scripture doesn't say, one way or other"

1. "You shall not murder", except if the guy's married to a really hot babe, Scripture doesn't say, one way or other.

2. "You shall not bear false witness", unless the dude's a wanker because Scripture doesn't say, one way or other.

3. "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman", unless you really love the guy and want to spend the rest of your lives together because Scripture doesn't say, one way or other.

Yep, StrongAxe, 6 days can't be 6 days because the Scripture is silent on its meaning!
---Marc on 4/5/15


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Warwick. There is also the more important spiritual parallel to the physical view of the likes of Gen 1:5.

Note 1Thess 5:5 and see how it fits with the spiritual message of Gen 1:5.
1Thess 5:5 ye are all children of the light, and children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of the darkness.

Note also the spiritual parralel of Gen 1:3 (LET THERE BE LIGHT...) confirmed by John 12:46 I AM COME A LIGHT into the world, that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darkness (see also John 1:4, 3:19).

We see both the physical and spiritual parralel in Genesis. The spiritual message in Genesis is consistent with the likes of John 1:1-5, etc.
---Haz27 on 4/4/15


And 'night' is used with 'day' 52 times and it always indicates an ordinary day.
---Warwick on 4/4/15

No, it doesn't always indicate an ordinary day.

When we become so literal and use words like always, not only do we lose credibility! but fail to see the deeper spiritual meaning of concepts in scripture.

John 9:4I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Romans 13:12The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

1 Thessalonians 5:5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/15


micha9344 wrote: "...shows that the laws of physics were in operation as well."

With God there are no laws of physics. The laws of physics are man's invention. To man, a planet takes millions of years to develop. With God all it takes is his thought and he speaks it into existance. You surely may know God, but deny his power, eh?
---Steveng on 4/5/15


Cluny, the various meanings of 'day' has been discussed here for years-where were you?

Day has 3 meanings:

1) The time of daylight from sunrise to sunset, Genesis 1:14, 3:8, 8:22.

2) A general expression for 'time' without specific limits Genesis 2:4, Psalm 102:3.

3) A 24hr period, Genesis 1:5, where day is accompanied by a number. .

So where does your day fit in? "Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day...." This is definition number 2 used as we would-'in my father's day' i.e. when he was alive. It has no number with it.

But how about Genesis 1:5, the contentious one? It is accompanied by a number as are the following 5 days of creation therefore 24hr days.
---Warwick on 4/4/15


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Note that 'day' is used with a number in Genesis 1 e.g. 1:5,8,13 etc.
It is used as a singular or plural with a number 410 times outside of Genesis 1 and it always means an ordinary day.
'Evening' and 'morning' are used together without 'day' 38 times outside Genesis 1 and it always indicates an ordinary day.
'Evening' or 'morning' are used 23 times each with 'day' outside Genesis 1 and it always means an ordinary day.
And 'night' is used with 'day' 52 times and it always indicates an ordinary day.
---Warwick on 4/4/15


The "days before the sun" canard was no problem to Church Fathers and Reformers. e.g. St Basil the Great (4th century) had no problem, when he described the first three creation days in Hexaemeron:

"However, the sun and the moon did not yet exist, in order that those who live in ignorance of God may not consider the sun as the origin and the father of light, or as the maker of all that grows out of the earth. That is why there was a fourth day, and then God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven."
---Warwick on 4/4/15


Steveng, I understand it to be God's setting up the definition of a normal day.
1 evening, 1 morning.
This happened first on day 1, when God made light, and separated it from the darkness. Calling them day (one of the other definitions by context) and night respectively. This also shows that the laws of physics were in operation as well.
---micha9344 on 4/3/15


The passage alludes to GOD's marriage Law..
---Trav on 3/27/15

However, the passage was written to pagan Romans, such as I was,...
---Mark_Eaton on 3/30/15

As a pagan you were not under Israels law.
Only Israel had the law, promises, covenants. Only Israel was punished for her adultery's and mixed among the pagans/heathens.
This marriage and divorce law was to Israel speaking to divorced Israel the Nth House of Ten and Judah. See all the Prophets, Red letter language of Christ. Disregarding scripture or Israel does not make it null or make a 13th gate in the wall.
Zec_8:13 it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel, so will I save you, ...
---Trav on 4/2/15


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God's prophets and God's only prophetic organisation?
1. God changed his mind about birthdays after 1940.
2. God changed his mind about whether Christ died on a cross (check out the Watchtower magazine's logo pre-1931).
3. God changed his mind about blood (including cow fertilisers for your garden), transplants, then changed his mind back again...and again...and again...(as more "light"(?) came upon the subject, or some such get-out-of-jail excuse was invented)
4. God changed his mind about black men's skins becoming white ("There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant" The Golden Age, July 24, 1929, p. 702)
---Marc on 4/2/15


What is the meaning of the phrase, "the evening and the morning is the first day."
---Steveng on 4/1/15


\\ So, if what we end up with in Genesis 4 is a 24 hour day, it's safe to conclude that is by God's design then & prior to G4,\\

Therefore, the Day of the Lord, referred to many times in the Bible, is only 24 hours long.

And when the Savior said, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day," was only 24 hours long, too.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/1/15


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