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Was Paul A Jew

If Sunday were indeed the "Lord's Day", don't you think it odd that neither Paul nor any other Apostle made mention of anything special about Sunday, yet faithfully kept the 7th day Sabbath?

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 ---jerry6593 on 4/4/15
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Jerry, I really do wish you would read my posts and stop saying I say things I have never said. I NEVER SAID I KEEP SUNDAY. or that The sabbath was replaced with Sunday. If you go back and read, I specifically said Christians today do not KEEP either, and that SUNDAY is not my sabbath day. I SAID every day is HOLY. Why? Because the New Creature is positioned RIGHT NOW, in heavenly places IN CHRIST, where there is no Sunday through Saturday.

What is wrong with you? And another here who can't read and claims one says things never said. We are ABOVE AND FREE Jerry. Just like Paul tells us in Ephesians, Colossians, Galatians, Philippians, Romans. You are here below, still in bondage.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/15


Kathyr When we follow Jesus and love others we keep the law because of love. Not to be saved but because we are saved. Read Romans 6.

Rom 13:8-10

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

When you do not murder are you trying to save yourself by works? Also resting on Sabbath means not working.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/23/15


Jerry, if you can't read and understand what someone says and writes here, how can you understand what is written in scripture. If you twist our words, it only shows you also twist scripture. Please read more carefully, showing yourself an intelligent and honest debater. Only dishonest people, crooked politicians, yellow journalism, use such tactics.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/15


You DID say that you are capable of "keeping" Sunday holy...
---jerry6593 on 4/23/15

I will not follow you into this rabbit hole any more.

Prov. 26:4 "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him"

You can continue to submit yourself to the yoke of bondage that even the Apostles did not want the Gentiles to have placed on them (Acts 15:10).

Please, study grace. See that the death of Jesus has freed us from the bondage of sin and death and has made us Gods righteousness, to all who believe.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/23/15


Mark E & Kathr: Now you are arguing with yourselves. You DID say that you are capable of "keeping" Sunday holy, even though no one - not even God - ever made it holy. That means that you think YOU are capable of making something holy. Yes, Kathr, you DID claim personal holiness as justification for MAKING Sunday holy, and while I agree that it is only God who can make us holy, that does not empower us to turn a counterfeit Sabbath into a holy day.

Mark E: Your claim to "remember" and "keep" the Sabbath by forgetting it and remembering Sunday instead is a masterpiece of mental gymnastics. You & Katr suffer from cognitive dissonance.


---jerry6593 on 4/23/15




Galatians 3 begins, "Having begun in the SPIRIT, are you now being made perfect in the FLESH?" Paul says impossible. God isn't perfecting our flesh. Our flesh is CRUCIFIED. And very telling verses below. The whole of Galatians I see:

Spirit vs flesh
You are either one or the other. The LAW is for the flesh. Will always be in bondage. And we are warned against those who want to put us back into bondage.



22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/15


1 Peter 4:1

4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin,

This verse parallels Galatians 3...when Paul asked them.....have you suffered so much IN VAIN.

Those who prefer to be under LAW have made THE CROSS of no affect. Paul said so in Galatians, and said anyone preaching anything BUT the cross is ACCURSED. This ACCURSED Gospel has been around from the beginning of the church age, BUT we have been warned that it's affects NUNILIFY The Cross. ***Galatians 2:20-21***The PREACHING OF THE CROSS, is foolishness to those who are perishing.

Take warning folks.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/15


Galatians 4:21-25

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants, the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

OK Samuel, obviously you don't understand what Paul is teaching. But he says YOU desire to be in bondage. If this is your desire....oh well.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/15


Kathyr being poor I do not have servents. But I do not go and eat on Sabbath or make other people work on Sabbath.

Also you telling me that Jesus was wrong when He said the Sabbah was made for man.

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

If the whole Ten Commandments are just for Jews the all of then Christian Churches down through the ages have been wrong since I do not know of a church until recently who said that Christian do not have to follow the Ten Commandments. Paul mentions following five of them in Romans 13:9.

Is not the Bible written and to be used by the Church? 2tim3:16

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/15


Samuel.... WITHIN THY GATES. Do you know WHERE this place is? And you believe this applies to Gentiles or us today? How many menservants and maid servants do you have living within your gates? God also uses BORDERS in other verses where "gates" is said. Hummm, could this be directed to Israel, who was actually given borders in the promise land.

Now we have a verse stating Jesus suffered OUTSIDE THE GATE. So, there is a place outside the gate...correct?

Again, your verse is given to ISRAEL alone, under a THEOCRATIC government. The Sabbath was actually given after Israel left Egypt, and the Sabbath is a reminder of God delivering them from Egypt.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/15




The Problem MarkEaton is that the Sabbath day is set up by GOD. It is not the First day of the week which we call Sunday.

Deuternomy 5:12-14

Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates, that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

GOD saves us. So we should obey Him because He is LORD of our lives and has saved us.

Rock of Ages Cleft for me.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/15


Jerry, I have no explaining to do with something YOU twisted. I SAID we are Holy because HE IS HOLY, and that God sees us IN CHRIST, who is Holy.

So YOU EXPLAIN how you come up with a works salvation here? OR that I have some sort of power to make myself Holy. If perhaps YOU understood the POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION, Phil 3, you would not be making such an ignorant and accusatory statement.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/15


You have both suggested that you have the power to make yourselves (or a day) holy. ---jerry6593 on 4/22/15

Wow, you really invented that one.

First, I said that the Fourth Commandment is to REMEMBER the Sabbath (to keep it holy). I am not making it holy, I am remembering it. Remembering it is the commandment.

Second, God made it for me (Mark 2:27) and I choose to remember it on Sunday.

Third, because Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness (Rom 10:4), even remembering the law does not make me righteous.

Fourth, God created the Sabbath out of love for us. He wanted us to rest our bodies and our lands. (Exod. 23:10)
---Mark_Eaton on 4/22/15


Mark E & Kathr: I have stated that only God can make something (or someone) holy. You have both suggested that you have the power to make yourselves (or a day) holy. Since holiness (or sanctification) is the requirement for fitness for heaven, it would seem that you can make yourselves fit for heaven. This smacks of "salvation by works" rather than by faith (which you also claim). Please explain the apparent disparity.


---jerry6593 on 4/22/15


Thank you ...
Rom 11:7...
The Election refers to the Church.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/15

Thank you both. Rom 11:28 explains Rom 11:7. Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

All GOD's prophets are specific where Paul confused you.
Remember, two houses of Israel. Nth/Sth.
Isa_65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit, they shall not plant, and another eat: ...
Isa_45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, Israel mine elect,....
Isa_65:9 I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it,...
Rom_11:28... election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
---Trav on 4/21/15


Thank you Michaele good point.

Romans 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The Election refers to the Church.

The way of the Cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/15


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Church is Israel??
In Ephesains, the one Body (not 12 tribes) of Christ...
---michael_e on 4/21/15

You say Israel isn't...all former & present witnesses say they are.
Rom_11:26...all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,...
Act_26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes,...
Psa_111:9... redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: ...
Heb_8:8...I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Luk_22:30... judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jas_1:1...to the twelve tribes which are scattered
abroad, greeting.
Rev_21:12...the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Eze 37:19...make them one stick, they shall be one in mine hand.
---Trav on 4/21/15


The Church is Israel??

In Ephesains, the one Body (not 12 tribes) of Christ, the Church, is emphasized. The body, is the fulness of Christ (1:23)Paul says God is making one NEW man(Israel isn't hew) (2:15), reconciling Jews and Gentiles to Himself in one body (2:16) Christ is the Head and Savior of the Body (5:23), we are the members (5:30).
We read that, immediately upon conversion, we are blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies (1:3). Were told that Gods power in raising Christ from the dead and exalting Him far above all is now extended to us-ward who believe (1:19-21). Positionally, weve already been raised from the dead and seated in the heavenlies (2:6)
---michael_e on 4/21/15


The Church is Isreal today.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/20/15

Israel is Israel. Ironically you've spelled "is-real".
GOD's Prophets prophecy to Israel. The "Testament" of the "New Covenant" states Israel "and" Judah.
You cannot find your statement above in scripture. Israel and word Church are not found together in scripture.
Now being ignorant of truth is one thing ignoring Truth is another.
Sun, Moon, Stars, Night, Day...seen daily. You haven't measured the Heavens or the foundations of the earth yet either. Even though you try.
Jer_31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
---Trav on 4/20/15


Rev 5:9,10
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation,
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Church is Isreal today. The Sabbath if for His Church.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/20/15


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...holy as it relates to the Sabbath means set apart, separated, sanctified, unique, not the same, different..
4/19/15
... for all time the name and offspring of Israel will endure.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/16/15

Meanings as you posted set apart, separated, sanctified, unique, not the same, different.

Exo_19:6 ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Lev_19:2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.

Isa_62:12 they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
---Trav on 4/20/15


Note that the ground was made HOLY by God because of its association with Him.
---jerry6593 on 4/20/15

Is the definition of holy (to you) things that are associated with God or made holy by God? But are there other words for what holy means? I gave you several, you gave me none.

Heb. 10:10 (NIV) "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all".

What does holy mean in this verse? Associated with God?Other translations render the word holy as the word sanctified, or separated unto God by God.

About Lev. 10:1. If you made a box for your son and he decided to do something different that you intended with it, would you punish him for that?
---Mark_Eaton on 4/20/15


1 Thessalonians 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.


TODAY, we are Holy, because He is Holy. Jerry, if you could for once see yourself IN Christ who only through Christ has access into the Holy of Holies, anytime, any day, any minute and not just on Saturdays. God made a NEW Covenent, yet you are stuck on the OLD. In the OT no one had access into the Holy of Holies except the High Priest,and that to make sacrifice for sin. Jesus has entered once and for all, and the DOOR is wide open for all who come through Jesus Christ. God sees us IN Christ who is Holy. Our Holy LAND now is in heavenly places IN Christ.

You are on the wrong side of the cross.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/15


Mark E: "Please define what holy means and use it in a context."

Why don't we let the Bible do that.

Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is HOLY ground.

Note that the ground was made HOLY by God because of its association with Him. Neither Moses nor any other Bible character ever made anything Holy.

On the other hand, Nadab and Abihu died for the blasphemy of using "strange fire" for a holy purpose (Lev 10:1). It was blasphemous because they usurped the prerogative of God in attempting to make something Holy on their own. Perhaps you should heed their lesson.


---jerry6593 on 4/20/15


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Only God can make something holy...
---jerry6593 on 4/18/15

Please define what holy means and use it in a context.

I think we disagree on what holy means.

First, the fourth commandment is to "remember the Sabbath to keep it holy". How exactly do I keep it holy? How exactly is the Sabbath holy and what does holy mean in relationship to the Sabbath.

I believe holy as it relates to the Sabbath means set apart, separated, sanctified, unique, not the same, different.

I am to remember the day of rest and to keep it set apart from every other day. I am to make it different than every other day, to make it unique, separated for the Lord.

I believe I can still do this if my Sabbath is Sunday.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/15


Kathyr Here is the whole Hymn.

I must needs go home by the way of the cross,
Theres no other way but this,
I shall neer get sight of the Gates of Light,
If the way of the cross I miss. Refrain:
The way of the cross leads home,
The way of the cross leads home,
It is sweet to know, as I onward go,
The way of the cross leads home.

I must needs go on in the blood-sprinkled way,
The path that the Savior trod,
If I ever climb to the heights sublime,
Where the soul is at home with God.
Then I bid farewell to the way of the world,
To walk in it nevermore,
For my Lord says, Come, and I seek my home,
Where He waits at the open door.

Numbers 28 is talking about the first day of Passover.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/15


Leviticus 23:36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you, and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly, and ye shall do no servile work therein.


Jerry, did God break His own HOLY 7th day here?
---kathr4453 on 4/19/15


Numbers 6:8 All the days of his separation he is holy unto the Lord.

Be he Holy for He is Holy. AKA sanctified. We are sanctified through the body of Christ once for all. Could the FOR ALL mean all days?

Jerry. I can't believe you have put so much time into only one day a week being HOLY, and scoff at Mark_Eaton comment.

In the OT the priests were called to be HOLY unto the Lord. TODAY, those in Christ are HOLY, meaning separated unto the Lord. We are not separated unto The Lord one day a week, but EVERY DAY. Therefore Mark_Eaton CAN make everyday Holy, because IN Christ, he is Holy.

ALSO:
Numbers 28:18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation, ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:
---kathr453 on 4/19/15


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Mark E: "I can make the Sabbath any day I want and still remember it and still keep it holy"

Oh really? Are you God that you can make something holy? I don't think so. The Bible is replete with stories of people making their own gods (idols) and worshipping them. But the one, only, true, Creator God abhors this sort of false counterfeit religion.

Only God can make something holy, and to differentiate Himself from all the false gods, He points back to Creation where He established the 7-day week and the HOLY 7th-day Sabbath as a PERMANENT memorial of His creative power, and His claim to exclusivity in worship.




---jerry6593 on 4/18/15


I know what verse you are thinking of. But have you ever looked at it in the Context of the rest of Scripture. Or just pulled it out and decide to apply your understanding without context?

The way of the Cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/15


Samuel. Aren't you doing that with your words" the Way of the Cross leads home? Exactly what is your understanding of "THE WAY OF THE CROSS?" And secondly, where is HOME?

The WAY of the CROSS leads to death, even being crucified to the world and the world to us....leading HOME, which is seated with Christ in Heavenly places IN Christ, who is not keeping any sabbath. Also apply Galatians 2:20 and 21 to your understanding and context.
---kathr4453 on 4/18/15


Well Mark Eaton if you are following Jesus and God then you are to choose the day they gave you as the Sabbath.

True you can decide to follow your will which all humans can decide what they feel is right.

But Christians are to follow our Lord and Savior. We are supposed to follow GOD.

I know what verse you are thinking of. But have you ever looked at it in the Context of the rest of Scripture. Or just pulled it out and decide to apply your understanding without context?

The way of the Cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/15


The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/15

I have stated this before.

If the Sabbath was made for me, and you quoted a Scripture passage where Jesus says it was, I can make the Sabbath any day I want and still remember it and still keep it holy.

Therefore, I choose to make my Sabbath on Sunday.

Now, I have answered your blog question.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/17/15


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Mark Eaton you could also answer the original question instead of veering off into points to argue minutia.

You cannot prove your understanding is correct. But the fact that Jesus designated the Sabbath for all mankind and that Sunday is never designated as anything should make you think and pray.

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

The way of the cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/15


Now I could believe you or I could believe the Bible.
---jerry6593 on 4/16/15

Perhaps you should determine the meaning of the verse rather than seeing it contains the word Sabbath.

The passage contains an analogy. The words "Just as" in verse 22 tell us that something is going to be compared against something else.

And what are being compared? The name and offspring of Israel versus the new heaven and new Earth, the new moon, and the Sabbath.

Why the Sabbath? Frequency. Every week there is a Sabbath. Every month, there is a new moon. And the new heavens and new Earth for longevity.

So every week, every month, for all time the name and offspring of Israel will endure.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/16/15


Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. ////


Yes just as Zechariah 14 also states...ALL flesh! even those in Egypt. BUT will there actually be "an Egypt" in Heaven? Will there be flesh under RULE of a Rod of Iron, and consequences if disobeyed?

Well, like scripture says, in the New creation we are no longer FLESH. No one will be threatened of being smited....AKA death.
---kathr4453 on 4/16/15


Mark E: "Is. 66:22-23 does not talk about the Sabbath."

My Bible says:

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Now I could believe you or I could believe the Bible. I'll go with the Bible.



---jerry6593 on 4/16/15


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The name and offspring of Israel will endure forever, from new moon to new moon, from Sabbath to Sabbath.
---Mark_Eaton

Point of order. The Sabbath has to be forever if the jews are enduring forever. Since both are tied together.

The Way of the Cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/15/15


The 7th day Sabbath was observed from Creation, is still observed by many faithful today, and will be observed in eternity, as it is as eternal as its Creator.
---jerry6593 on 4/14/15

Is. 66:22-23 does not talk about the Sabbath.

The verses are talking about the name and the offspring of Israel. The subject of the verses is contained the phrase "So your offspring and your name will endure. And it shall be from..".

What you have said about the Sabbath enduring forever is not substantiated by these verses.

The name and offspring of Israel will endure forever, from new moon to new moon, from Sabbath to Sabbath.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/15/15


Zech 14: 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain, there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. SERIOUSLY??? HEATHENS in HEAVEN????

Jerry, Zech 14 parallels Isaiah. Does this sound like the NEW heaven and earth, where there will be no CURSE?
---kathr4453 on 4/15/15


Trav, are saying when the Greek 'Ioudaios' i.e 'Jews' is used it refers only the tribe of Judah?
---Warwick on 4/13/15

Per your post we'll search the subject like you don't know.
12 sons, Judah represents one son of thirteen including Ephraim & Manasseh.
Never, are the 13 sons collectively called Judah.
You acknowledged the covenant of the two houses.
GOD, Prophets, Christ, and the Apostles address Jacob/Israel offspring separately and as two groups. Northern Kingdom sometimes is called Ephraim. Ezekiel 37:16-19.
Why do you wage war with GOD's scriptural representatives?
It's either a mark of blind fidelity to your teaching or you are an enemy of GOD.
Preferred thought... you are just blind.
---Trav on 4/15/15


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Isa 58:13
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable, and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

I guess Isiah does not speak to us today.

The Way of the cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/15/15


... only those of Judah then Christ was a "stumbling block" to only the tribe of Judah,
... only those of the tribe of Judah were called by God.
---Warwick on 4/13/15

Judah...did not accept. Christ was their stumbling block even to this day 2015 years later.
Joh_1:11 He came unto his own, his own received him not. (Own family Judah)
Mat_10:36 ...foes shall be they of his own household.
Luk_4:24 ... No prophet is accepted in his own country.

All Israel is covenanted with GOD per the prophets. Christ as Shepherd seeker.
Divorced Nth House lost sheep, readily recognized Christ and accepted.
Mat_15:24 ... I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

GOD never fails.
---Trav on 4/15/15


/Cluny: "there will be no Sabbath observance." Does that mean that Isaiah is wrong while you and Kathr are right?\-jerry6593 on 4/15/15
No that means that SDA's continually misinterpret those passages based upon doctrine from a 19th century false prophetess.
JW's say that Christianity has got it wrong for 1700+ years and, in the 19th century, we have found the truth.
SDA's say that Christianity has got it wrong for 1700+ years and, in the 19th century, we have found the truth.
LDS's say that Christianity was incomplete for 1700+ years and, in the 19th century, we have found the complete truth.
Satan sure was active back then.
---micha9344 on 4/15/15


Cluny: "there will be no Sabbath observance."

Does that mean that Isaiah is wrong while you and Kathr are right?


---jerry6593 on 4/15/15


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Kathr is right.

Rev 21:23

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


Since there is neither sun nor moon in eternity--because the very word means "timeless"--there will be no Sabbath observance.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/14/15


kathr: "there is no sun or moon or days"

If you were to go to the Bible for your doctrine, you would find:

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

The 7th day Sabbath was observed from Creation, is still observed by many faithful today, and will be observed in eternity, as it is as eternal as its Creator. It is you who are out of step.
---jerry6593 on 4/14/15


Trav, are saying when the Greek 'Ioudaios' i.e 'Jews' is used it refers only the tribe of Judah?

1 Corinthians 1:23,24 "but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

If you say 'Ioudaios' means only those of Judah then Christ was a "stumbling block" to only the tribe of Judah, and only those of the tribe of Judah were called by God.

See also Romans 3:29 "Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also." Surely Jews here means those of the Jewish faith, not just those of Judah? Note He is God of the Gentiles also!
---Warwick on 4/13/15


Trav, again, in Esther 2:5 Mordecai was called both Jew and Benjaminite, not Judean. Is Scripture wrong?

And as I showed from Scripture in Mark 15:2 Pilate called Jesus a Jew and He agreed.
And in John 4:9 the Samaritan woman called Jesus a Jew.
And in John 4:22 Jesus says salvation is from the Jews.
From all three witnesses the Greek is 'Ioudaios' i.e. Jews.

This shows that those of the Jewish faith were then, as they are today, called Jews.

As for Hebrews 8::8 of course there were the two houses of Israel and of Judah, but the citizens of both are also called Jews in Scripture, see above for example.
---Warwick on 4/13/15


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One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
~Romans 14:5
---learner2 on 4/13/15


Trav, Esther 2:5: ...Mordecai, a Benjaminite,"
---Warwick on 4/12/15

Two Kingdom split, Benjamin joined the Sth House of Judah. Benjamin was of the Judeans.
Like you being an "Aussie", or Stalinist.
What does GOD call the Northern House?
Here are the New Covenant names.

Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel "and" with the house of Judah:
Hmmmm,"And" Judah.
There are over 142 names (marks) GOD calls the "collective)people besides their fathers proper names.
Not once does GOD or Christ call "all" Israel jews or Judeans.
---Trav on 4/13/15


Jerry, if you are following Jesus TODAY, Jesus is not resting on the 7th day of each week. So the truth is, you are not really FOLLOWING Jesus TODAY, or any day. We are no longer part of this world, with it's sun and moon. We right now are seated with Christ in Heavenly places IN Christ. If perchance you choose by FAITH to obey this truth, you will see UP HERE, there is no sun or moon or days, or evenings and mornings, just as Genesis 2:1 says, or rather doesn't say about an evening and morning.

As Samuel said..the way of the CROSS leads home. Come home Jerry.
---kathr4453 on 4/13/15


Trav,
...Israelites were corporately called 'Jews', as we still do today. ... If so on what authority?
---Warwick on 4/12/15

Authority of Truth. Corporately only by your blindness and fear of scripture pertaining to "All" Israel.
Why I call you a Poser (discovering somewhat, it is an adopted, fearful ignorance), about the Bible's subject people.
Christ was of the tribe of Judah. He was Judean. The slang corruption of his tribes name is "jew". 1st use in Bibles was in 18 century.
Benjamin joining Judah after the split of the two houses in Kings, see the prophetic beginning.
Work... un-poser yourself.
1Ki 11:30 Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
---Trav on 4/13/15


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kathr: "Why do SDA's worship on a day Jesus was still in the grave?"

Because we follow Jesus, and Jesus rested, even in death, on the 7th day Sabbath. Whom do you follow? Even His disciples STILL rested that day:

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment.


The example of Paul's lengthy sermon that you cited occurred on a Saturday night (that's when the 1st day of the week begins) and he went on a trip Sunday morning. Is that how your church does it?



---jerry6593 on 4/13/15


Trav, Esther 2:5: ".there was a Jew in Susa the citadel whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, son of Shimei, son of Kish, a Benjaminite," Mordecai was obviously not of the tribe of Judah but called a Jew. Why? Gill explains "Now in Shushan the palace was a certain Jew,.... Not one of the tribe of Judah, for he was afterwards called a Benjaminite, but was so called, because he was of the kingdom of Judah, which consisted of both tribes. Jarchi says, all that were carried captive with the kings of Judah were called Jews among the nations, though of another tribe:" Holman agrees.

The question for you is: Does Esther 2:5 call Mordecai a Jew- Yes or no?
---Warwick on 4/12/15


Trav, incorrect-'Jew' comes from Greek 'Ioudaios' which was in use to describe the inhabitants of Israel long before NT times. That it was still in use in NT times is proved by the three witnesses I gave.

Mark 15:2 'And Pilate asked him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" (i.e. Greek Ioudaios) And he answered him, "You have said so" i.e. yes.

John 4:9 "How is it that you, (Jesus) a Jew, (Ioudaios) ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?"

John 4:22 Jesus says "for salvation is from the Jews" again 'Ioudaios'

So the Israelites were corporately called 'Jews', as we still do today. Or do you claim 'Ioudaios' is not Greek for Jew? If so on what authority?
---Warwick on 4/12/15


Cluny: There you go again. Well you know that the Jewish Sabbath customs are not a part of the fourth Commandment. Please answer this question honestly:

If Sunday were indeed the "Lord's Day", don't you think it odd that neither Paul nor any other Apostle made mention of anything special about Sunday, yet faithfully kept the 7th day Sabbath?


---jerry6593 on 4/12/15


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John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued his speech until midnight.

Why do SDA's worship on a day Jesus was still in the grave?
---kathr4453 on 4/12/15


Going to the Synagogue is NOT considered part of Sabbath keeping by Jews.

Did you know that?

Sabbath keeping in Judaism involves abstaining from some 30 or more forbidden works.

Among these are lighting fires (explicitly forbidden in the Torah), which is why Orthodox Jews do not drive their cars on Shabbat.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/15


Jerry, those verses do not prove Paul faithfully kept the sabbath. If someone like Warwick comes to your church on your sabbath to preach, does not mean Warwick is keeping the sabbath. He says he does not Keep the sabbath. If an SDA preacher is invited to preach in a church on Sunday, in no,way says the SDA minister is Keeping Sunday. Romans 14 Paul says some esteem one day above the other, and and some esteem all days alike. Saying that shows Paul did not say one absolutely must esteem Saturday above the other days.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/15


Samuel, Wikipedia is not scripture, but written by MAN and can be altered and changed daily according to one's views. That is someone's interpretation of their belief, not scripture. Paul was a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin, who taught us GRACE like no other. Also teaching LAW and Grace do not mix, and you can find Paul's teaching on GRACE in Galatians absolutely tells us THE WAY OF THE LAW DOES NOT LEAD HOME.

AND Paul nor any Apostles ever taught Sunday replaced Saturday as a sabbath day.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/15


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kathr: "Paul did not faithfully KEEP the 7th day."


The Bible disagrees.

Act 17:2 And Paul, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH days reasoned with them out of the scriptures

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next SABBATH.

Act 13:44 And the next SABBATH day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
---jerry6593 on 4/11/15


Trav, ...So the Israelites were corporately called 'Jews', as we still do today.
---Warwick on 4/10/15
You do so in ignorance. Soon by choice.
Israelites were not or ever will be corporate jews or Judeans.
This is not in scripture...or even implied anywhere in scripture. The biggest blind spot in the Christian world. Yours more especially as you've posed as a preacher. Not knowing the subject being preached.
Ioudaios
From G2448 (in sense of G2455 as a country), (J)udaean, that is, belonging to Jehudah:

Yehshua... was of Judah...Judean.
Word "jew" wasn't used in scripture until the eighteenth century bibles started using it.
Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin...(a Benjamite) His own statement.
---Trav on 4/11/15


Correct Warwick thank you.

Kathr please go to wikipedia and read the History of the Lord's day. Which was considered the Christian Sabbath and still today is considered so.

The Fourth of the Ten Commandments sets forth the Sabbath as a day of meeting and rest.

Paul a Jew would have kept it just like he kept the ret of the Ten Commandments and told Christians to do.


Rom 13:9

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Way of the Cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/10/15


Paul did not faithfully KEEP the 7th day. Paul preached to unsaved Jews on the Sabbath, because that is the day the unsaved Jews KEPT and were all assembled at the temple. Yet we see, just as Jesus preached to the Jews who eventually killed Him, Paul was also persecuted and killed by these Jews he too was preaching to. Then Paul said, I will now go to the Gentiles.
Paul did not faithfully KEEP Sunday either, nor do Christians KEEP Sunday. The Sabbath will always be the 7th day, and was never MOVED to the 8th day. Sunday is not nor will ever be a sabbath day. This whole idea that it was moved is ridiculous. Doesn't Paul say everyday?
---kathr4453 on 4/10/15


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2Ki 16:5-6 Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome [him]. At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.
These verses are the first to use the word "Jew" and show just who the Jews are, inhabitants of Judah. Although specifically from the tribe of Judah, it was a by-word used by Assyrians and Babylonians pertaining to the nation of Judah, including the tribes of Benjamin and parts of Levi.
One was a Jew if they were exiled from Judah or of the remnant of Jacob which returned to Jerusalem.
---micha9344 on 4/10/15


Trav, Mark 15:2 'And Pilate asked him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" And he answered him, "You have said so" i.e. yes.

The word 'Jews' comes from the Greek 'Ioudaios' which in the intertestamental period came to be the word used of all Israelites in the Greek and Roman world.

John 4:9 addressing Jesus the woman says "How is it that you, a Jew, (Ioudaios) ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?"

John 4:22 Jesus says "for salvation is from the Jews" again Ioudaios.

So the Israelites were corporately called 'Jews', as we still do today.
---Warwick on 4/10/15


Of course Paul was a Jew, but that is not the subject of the blog question. The issue at hand is the substitution of a counterfeit holy day for the Bible Sabbath by apostates after the time of the apostles. If ever there was a non-Orthodox doctrine, this one is. To claim that the Apostles observed Sunday as "the Lord's Day" is to deny the Bible evidence to the contrary.


Mod: I don't appreciate your having used deceptive titles for my blog question. That is not a Christian practice.



---jerry6593 on 4/10/15


New Testament the word Jew is used for all of Israel.
Jhn 4:9
...woman of Samaria...
---Samuelbb7 on 4/9/15

Your statement is false, you just don't realize/see how much yet. This shared and taught misconception is widely found. Scripture as our witness will show this is false. When scripture points it out you are no longer ignorant. No excuses.
jew is slang...judean was original word.
Samaritan woman is Israel, per her statement. Christ recognized her, lost sheep being his search.
She states: Joh 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob,...
New covenant shows two houses:
Heb_8:8 ..."and" Judah
Mat_19:28, Luk_22:30, Act_26:7, Jas_1:1, 1Pe_1:1, Mat_9:36, Rev_21:12 and more as we look...
---Trav on 4/9/15


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In the New Testament the word Jew is used for all of Israel. You can go to any Bible search engine and type in a search for Jew in the New Testament and it is consistently applied to all of the people of Israel. Just as today people do not refer to the different tribes but to all the nation of Israel as Jews.


Jhn 4:9

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

The Way of the Cross leads home.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/9/15


Yes, Paul was a Jew. Remember, he was taught by Gamaliel, the eminent rabbi of the Pharisees.
---Monk_Brenda on 4/7/15

You can copy and paste scripture ... when you read your Bible online Brenda.
Just a suggestion.

Paul states that he is of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom_11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Accused of the jews:
Act 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Jesus wasn't a "jew" either. He was "Judean". Yes, there is a difference.
---Trav on 4/7/15


Yes, Paul was a Jew. Remember, he was taught by Gamaliel, the eminent rabbi of the Pharisees.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brenda on 4/7/15


yet faithfully kept the 7th day Sabbath?
---jerry6593 on 4/4/15

Paul circumcised Timothy but not Titus. Why did Paul not circumcise Titus, if Paul was such a diligent law keeper?

Because we are dead to the Law (Gal 2:19). We are alive to God but dead to the Law. The Law cannot make us righteous, cannot justify us, and can no longer remove our sin.

Paul also saw those who tried to force circumcision on Titus as False Brethren who wanted to eliminate their liberty in Christ and bring them back under bondage to the law.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/7/15


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God set a precedent that we take a day off for rest/worship.

I'm never sure why this is a cause of arguments. We have all been brought up in an era where the majority of Christian churches have an assembly to worship on a Sunday. There will always be people who cannot do that (for example the midwife who delivered my first child). I am so glad she did not say "Sorry I'm in Church".

I feel that if we have a genuine reason to set aside a different day of the week (sometimes or regularly) He will understand that.

He is ALWAYS available to us whenever we need to call upon Him and we can study His word any day we choose to do that.

I cannot believe that our choice of day to worship is a salvation issue.
---Rita_H on 4/6/15


"Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead."-Justin Martyr 110-165AD
Sunday, called the 1st day of the week in the Bible, was also the day Jesus appeared to His disciples upon His resurrection.
It is called the Lord's Day because of the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and has been since the 1st century AD.
One may check the various countries throughout Asia Minor and Europe to see what they name the 1st day of the week, that which we call Sunday.
A 19th century ex-Millerite false prophetess' indoctrination produces lies.
---micha9344 on 4/6/15


Was Paul A Jew?
---jerry6593 on 4/4/15

Paul was of Benjamin. Not a Judean or a slang/jew.
Judas was Judean.
The other Apostles represent the other tribes of Israel.

When the Northern Kingdom of Israel split. Ten of the tribes rejected Rehoboam and Davids dynasty (1 Kings 12:16), and Ahijahs prophecy was fulfilled.
Benjamin stayed with Judah.

Rom_11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

The northern kingdom is called Israel (or sometimes Ephraim) in Scripture, and the southern kingdom is called Judah.
God, in His mercy, has promised a reuniting of the northern and southern kingdoms.
---Trav on 4/6/15


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