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Think You Are A Christian

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 ---Cluny on 4/22/15
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Jerry, Since you obey the fifth for example, can you prove God GAVE YOU land? Can you PROVE that EVERYONE in your family is still on this LAND? Christians TODAY are being driven off and even out of their countries. Is it BECAUSE they broke the 5th commandment?

TODAY Jerry, we live in a realm above and beyond the elementary instructions God gave Israel after He brought them out of Egypt. GOD IS LOVE and in Him is no darkness. When we walk IN LOVE, in US is no darkness. Why do you continually condemn the POWER of His LOVE? And the effect HIS LOVE through us has in being so much more than a preschool instruction guide? To be filled with the Fruit of the Spirit is aiming for a PHD. Against such there is no law.
---kathr4453 on 5/3/15


David, ...KEEP READING!
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 5/3/15


Jerry, You claim you keep the sabbath , yet posting immediately after the sun goes down on Saturday Night. I bet the whole of the sabbath you were obsessed with what you were going to say today. Your anger and accusations prove it, showing you were not REALLY resting were you? You were WORKING over and over in your mind what you were going to say, showing NO LOVE, again PROVING you do not know the Power of His Love through you, warning you...JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED.
If perhaps you ENTERED His REST, then you could actually give it a rest Jerry. Stop trying to be everyone conscience before God. Yours need to be purged with the Blood of Christ to SERVE the Living God, and let others SERVE HIM according to His will in THEIR LIFE.
---kathr4453 on 5/3/15


Kathr, All the land belongs to God because He created it. Whichever land you live in belongs to Him and He can give it or take it away. Satan may be the ruler of the world right now but not for long and when Michael stands up the whole world will shake and tremble and those that are wise shall shine forth as the brightness of the earth.

I would think carefully before I pick apart the commandments of God or attack His people who keep them and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
---barb on 5/3/15


I have been Baptized, and then I have not only given myself to Christ, but I have tried (these last 30+ years,) to cooperate with Him.

I have tried to keep close to the Sacraments, I pray daily, (and I am beginning to sound like the Pharisee in the story of the Publican and the Pharisee.)

In the end, though, it will be up to God's mercy, and I pray that the last words on my lips will be, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner."

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 4/22/15


In other words, Brendan, you don't know how to become saved?
---Jed on 5/3/15




Kathr: "Some actually believe we believe in disobeying the Law."

What are we supposed to think when you make such statements as:

"We are not under the Law."

"The 10 Commandments were for the Jews - not for Christians."

If you truly don't believe in DISobeying the Law (specifically, the 10 Commandments), then simply state that you DO indeed believe in OBEYING them. Otherwise, you appear mentally dysfunctional with cognitive dissonance.

Please answer one question. Exactly which is God's Law that He wrote on your heart in the new covenant? If you say "love" then your actions here disprove it.


---jerry6593 on 5/3/15


Some actually believe we believe in disobeying the Law.-kathr4453

Kathryn
I don't believe this, but I do believe folks listen too much to man's teachings, and not enough to Gods Holy Spirit.

I see believer's as members of my own family, and hope for each and everyone of them to be saved. But if they deny the Truth, taught to them through Gods Holy Spirit, salvation becomes impossible.

It amazes me teachers and believers live this life of sin, in secret. Nobody addresses it, though everyone in sin wants to know the answer, an answer the Holy Spirit confirms in their spirit. And they deny it, deny it because it goes against their religion.

Fact: If you do, what you do not want to do, YOU are a slave to sin!!!
---David on 5/3/15


1st Commandment
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

Let's take the 10 commandments one by one and really take a good look at.

Did God REALLY give this to Adam and Eve...REALLY?

This and these were first given to ISRAEL, and here is the proof. They were in bondage to Egypt for 400 years in a place where there were other gods.

Do,those Born Again even THINK about having other gods BEFORE HIM.....Oh Please.....we really have graduated from preschool.
---kathr4453 on 5/3/15


Here is the 5th commandment.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy Giveth thee.

What LAND are we talking about here? The Promise Land, the land they were on their way to possess?

Some believe God gave this to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Was THIS the Law they broke and were thrown out or off THE LAND? and what about TODAY? Does God guarantee LAND and a long life on some Land He gave you if you honor Your Father and Mother?

Please show facts and statistics. Who here was GIVEN LAND directly from God?
---kathr4453 on 5/3/15


Some actually believe we believe in disobeying the Law. Nonsense! For the Born Again Christian, our life goes beyond obeying the Law. For others, the Law is all they have. OT saints did not have the ability to walk and live in the spirit of the Life of Christ. THIS is New Covenant. The Law continually pointed to sin. They could not DIE TO SIN, but we're constantly reminded how imperfect they were. No one can keep the Law of Moses. So God sent Jesus Christ to now KEEP US, and to fulfill in us What the Law could never do. The Law has NO POWER whatsoever. Those who say they keep the law are doing so in their flesh. = WORKS OF THE FLESH. Those Born Again give all praise and Glory to God who Keeps us by HIS POWER in those raised up with Christ.
---kathr4453 on 5/2/15




Yes MarkE you missed that Loving GOD and loving others leads us to obey the Ten.

Rom 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Ephesians 6:2
Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)

So how would loving GOD lead you to take his name in vain, worship other gods, use images in the place of GOD? Or refuse to spend the time with Him that He asks?

Love would lead you to go above and beyond what is asked.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/2/15


Mark E: "Did I miss anything?"

You missed everything.

The laws of Moses, called "the handwriting of ordinances" were written on parchment and placed on the side of the ark of the covenant. These were "nailed to the cross". Conversely, the "Law of God" was written by Jesus Himself in stone and was placed inside the ark.

Some of the ordinances were temporary (such as sacrificial offerings), but the Ten Commandments - God's Law - are as eternal as God Himself. This is the "Law" that God writes on our heart in the New Covenant. Refusal to obey God's Law is rebellion against God.

God IS love. The keeping of His Commandments reveals His love in us.

---jerry6593 on 5/2/15


You only need to read on in Romans to get your answer.-Mark_Eaton

Mark
What about what God has written in your heart? Will you ignore that sin, that sin which God has shown you, shown you, so you will know you are still a slave of sin?

Brother, why do you think after these many long years of suffering, your sin is still there? Yes you have other sin in your life, but why has God allowed this one sin to be your master? (Romans 7:15)

It's because God is pointing out what you deny.
You deny the Truth, that Truth Jesus taught in (John 8:34). If you deny his Truth, do you not also deny Christ?
The sin will remain,... as long as you deny this Truth.
---David on 5/2/15


Many here teach that being under Christ's grace allows disobedience to His Law...br>---jerry6593 on 5/1/15

Because, you look to the LAW to define what a REAL Christian is.

Let's look at the law within the library (Bible) to see a pattern.

The Law of Moses being the 613 commandments contained in his five books.

By the time the book of Micah is written, the 613 commandments have been reduced to 3 (Micah 6:8)

Jesus further reduces the 3 commandments to 2 and adds one commandment of his own (Matt 22:40 & John 13:34)

Paul reduces all the commandments to one (Romans 13:10)

So love (God and our neighbors) is the fulfillment of all the commandments.

Did I miss anything?
---Mark_Eaton on 5/1/15


Good point Mark Eaton.

Cluny most cults say that you have to be part of their group alone.

Not the definition Donna gave.

But many who call themselves Christians would not understand her definition.

I have found that many people just go to church and think that makes them a Christian. Some do not see Jesus as their priest. But a man they talk to as their priest. See Hebrews 1john.

So like Jerry I like her definition.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/1/15


\\Cluny, really? Cult?

So Jesus isn't our King, Priest, Prophet and Teacher? hhhmmm I dunno know Cluny...that doesn't sound cultish to me. What is a JfW?
---donna9393 on 4/30/15\\

My point, donna, which you seem to have missed, is that cults, such as Jehovah's False Witnesses, say this identical thing that you did.

I'm not saying your words are cultish, but merely that your definition of a "true Christian" is claimed by cults, too.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/15


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You do not want to sin, do you? If you are not slaves of sin, why do you sin?
---David on 5/1/15

You only need to read on in Romans to get your answer.

Rom 7:22-23 "For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members"

The inner man is our new Spirit born of God, the outer members, our old flesh born of man. They wage war in us and it is our job as Believers every day to crucify the old man and live out the new Spirit.

I believe this is what is meant in Phil 2:12 by "work out your salvation".
---Mark_Eaton on 5/1/15


To just pull out verse 16 on it's own is twisting what Paul is saying out of context. -kathr4453

Kathryn
Verse 16 is in conclusion of the passage. And to prove that what I wrote is in context. I have a question for you and Mark.

My brother and sister
Let's deal not with My words or your words, but with that which God has clearly shown you in your own hearts.
You do not want to sin, do you?
If you are not slaves of sin, why do you sin?
---David on 5/1/15


Donna: I like your definition of a Christian. I would also add that Jesus is our Substitute (having fulfilled the debt owed by our sins) as well as our Example (the model by which our lives should be patterned). He is also our very best friend.

So I think we could summarize a Christian as one who loves Jesus, and Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). This reinforces your thesis that to be a Christian requires obedience to Christ. Many here teach that being under Christ's grace allows disobedience to His Law. Why would a REAL Christian disobey the God he loves?



---jerry6593 on 5/1/15


Cluny, really? Cult?

So Jesus isn't our King, Priest, Prophet and Teacher? hhhmmm I dunno know Cluny...that doesn't sound cultish to me. What is a JfW?
---donna9393 on 4/30/15


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Because I obey Jesus words especially in Matthew chapter 5 to 7.
John Ch 6.
But it all start With Baptism
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/30/15


A popular example of meaningless Christian-speaking is when someone describes following Jesus. Where exactly are we following him? And how?
When people followed Jesus in Matt-John, they walked (Mat 14:13). Mostly literal physical following, not spiritual following by faith. When Jesus said follow me He meant literally get up and travel with me. The most famous follow me was spoken to potential disciples. Matt 4:19
Jesus sent Paul to be the pattern of salvation to us that hereafter believe (1 Tim 1:16).
Paul never elevates himself above Christ when he bows to him and calls him preeminent (Eph 3:14, Col 1:18).
Following Pauls pattern and instructions requires glorifying God by Jesus Christ (Rom 16:27, Phil 2:11).
---michael_e on 4/30/15


\\What do you think of this definition? I like it.
---donna9393 on 4/30/15
\\

JfWs and most fringe cults say much the same thing.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/15


I found this definition of a TRUE Christian in a study bible I have: To center on Jesus Christ in this way-by obeying Him as our King, Trusting Him as our Priest and learning from Him as our prophet and teacher. In this way is the hallmark of true authentic Christianity. What do you think of this definition? I like it.
---donna9393 on 4/30/15


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Samuel, no verse says sin is alive or dead. When we die with Christ, our history in Adam 1 has ENDED. We are no longer seen after the flesh AKA sin.

David, you need to read all of Romans 6, not just one verse taken out of the context it was spoken.

Yield your members, as those alive from the dead.... A sinful man on his own who has not first been crucified with Christ cannot yield himself to righteousness. Never could and never can without Jesus Christ. Only the NEW creature can yield himself unto righteousness. If one could do that without Christ, there would be no need for Jesus Christ or His finished works on the cross. We are justified by His blood..AND SAVED BY HIS RISEN LIFE IN US. Christ IN YOU, the hope of GLORY.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/15


Romans 6:13-14

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God..

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

David, remember verse 13-14 come BEFORE verse 16. Paul gives a precise step by step instruction, beginning in verse 1. To just pull out verse 16 on it's own is twisting what Paul is saying out of context.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/15


Paul says we become the servants of whom we obey.
---David on 4/30/15

Romans 6 is preceded by Romans 5 and in it we find:

Rom 5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"

Rom 5:10 "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life"

Without Jesus, we have no peace with God and are Gods enemies. As enemies, we can still obey God but reconciliation (salvation) is not achieved by obedience only. We must have faith in Jesus as substitute for us to be born again (John 3:3). No other way reconciles us to God.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/30/15


Kathyr your verses don't say sin is alive. The Devil is alive. I agree with all but the last line of your last post. Do you believe once saved always saved?

David to obey we have to be Born Again. Then when filled with the Holy Spirit we can by the power of the Holy Spirit we can obey.

Rom 13:8,9

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
See Luke 17. Those who love Jesus obey Him.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/30/15


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(Romans 6:16) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Kathryn & Mark
Since we are born into sin, born as servants of sin, we are not born as servants of God. If we are not born as Gods servants, how do we become Gods servants?

In the above passage, Paul says we become the servants of whom we obey. Do you believe this, do you believe Paul, when he says we must obey God to become his servants?
---David on 4/30/15


Samuel, yes it is I the bible. Sin and death. In Adam all die. We inherited death. No one can be made alive apart from Jesus Christ and faith in Him. And no one is born ALIVE in Christ. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The OT saints looked forward to the Cross, Messiah, and we look back. It's been about faith from the beginning of time, when God covered Adam and Eve in animal skins,..when Able presented to God a sacrifice, when Job sacrificed for his children, and where OT sacrifices COVERED sin. All pointed to the finished work of Christ. Today we are more than just covered, today sin is taken away.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/15


Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/15


Sin is not alive. Sin is breaking the law of GOD, missing the mark.

We are to die to sin that we may live in righteousness.

We are not perfect but we have an advocate with the Father who can save us. 1John 2. See also chapter 3.

Original sin as a doctrine means we are born guilty of a sin we never committed.

I do not agree and do not find that in the Bible. We are born Peccable. But not guilty of sin.

Rock of Ages cleft for me.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/29/15


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David, I read Romans 6-8 differently. I believe it says " we die to sin" not sin dies. Sin can never die. We are born in sin, what is called "original sin", and our flesh is our enemy. . In Adam all DIE. In Christ we are made alive. Our sin was placed on Jesus, and He paid the full penalty for sin, which is death.

Paul says in Romans 7...oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from " THE BODY OF THIS DEATH". ANS....Jesus Christ. Then Chapter 8 explains we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit If we are Christ's.

Just remember, sin never dies...WE died to sin, when we died with Christ...I am Crucified with Christ. Also just as Romans 6:6 said.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/15


According to the above passage, Paul says our obedience to God puts sin to death. Do you believe this?
---David on 4/29/15

I do not agree and your understanding of the passage is somewhat flawed.

It is you who must die, you must die with Christ, so that you can be set free from sin.

Rom 6:7 "He who has died has been freed from sin"

It is only when we have been crucified with Christ together in salvation and baptism, that we are born again and this new birth has freedom from sin. Even though our sin was crucified on the cross of Jesus 2000 years ago, only when we die thru Jesus can we really appropriate its liberty from sin.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/29/15


What do you believe Romans 6:1-7 mean? -kathr4453

Kathryn
Sin must die, die so we can be set free, set free, so we can serve God (Romans 7:1-6).

(Romans 6:16-17) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Kathryn
According to the above passage, Paul says our obedience to God puts sin to death. Do you believe this?
---David on 4/29/15


David, read Romans 6.... It says shall we continue to SIN that Grace may abound...God forbid..DON'T YOU KNOW THAT AS MANY AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH. AKA being Crucified with Christ....and if you read the whole chapter, actually 6-8, you should see it.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/15


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Jdg 5:23 Curse ye Meroz, said the angel of the LORD, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof, because they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD against the mighty.

---jerry6593 on 4/28/15

Now that seems to also be a political comment, if one presumes America is the New Promise land and Americans are God's new chosen people.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/15


Romans 6:6

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

David, what do you believe Romans 6:1-7 mean?
---kathr4453 on 4/28/15


Jerry, thank you for your response. What do you think Jesus would say about what you wrote? Will God judge me on my patriotism, or is it just you who judge me?
---learner2 on 4/28/15


Actually if you re read Galatians 2:20-21 again, GRACE is the Crucified life.-kathr4453

Kathryn
In (Romans 6), Paul writes about being dead to sin. Do you believe being crucified with Christ and being dead to sin, are one and the same?
What do you believe Paul means by being "dead to sin"?
---David on 4/28/15


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\\Cluny, Of course they're in my bible, just not interpreted to suit my "ism" !
---1st_cliff on 4/27/15\\

To the contrary.

You DO interpret them to suit your ism.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/15


//
I think I am a Christian because I am not a Republican and I do not support war.

---learner2 on 4/27/15
//


Now there's a brilliant comment. "Salvation-by-Political-Party" What a concept! I suppose that you expect God to honor your membership in the anti-God party of baby murder and sexual perversion.

As for your anti-war stance, you don't deserve to live in a country where your freedom is defended by brave war fighters. Meroz was also anti war. Here's what God thought of him:

Jdg 5:23 Curse ye Meroz, said the angel of the LORD, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof, because they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD against the mighty.


---jerry6593 on 4/28/15


I think I am a Christian because I am not a Republican and I do not support war.
---learner2 on 4/27/15

You are a "Republican" and don't realize it. Unless of course you wouldn't say the pledge of allegiance.

In the second and its original form it reads:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the "Republic" for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

(I'm not sure a Christian should stand united with either party these days. We should control them...they are our servants out of control, especially the demoncrats)
---Trav on 4/28/15


1 Peter 4

4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin,

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Remember PETER who was with Jesus for how long ......said this. But let's reiterate again, this suffering is not self inflicted, and you can't bring it on yourself. ...IT's completely the work of the Holy Spirit IN YOU, conforming you to the image of Jesus Christ. There is no ISM about it.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/15


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2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:.

Cliff, good luck seeking the Kingdom of God. My Prayer is you are seeking the right Kingdom of God and not some Kingdom some ISM is teaching.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/15


Dear Learner2

A person is a Christian because they believe on the LORD Jesus Christ.

Act 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Those who believe follow Jesus and are Born Again. John 3.

They love Jesus.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/28/15


It was finally revealed to Paul how the blood of Jesus provided salvation freely for all men. Sscrifice, obedient are not required to receive salvation.
God teaches that the world and depraved humanity requires his grace, atonement, forgiveness, and redemption. However, no one understood how God could provide these things to ungodly people until the mystery of Christ was revealed to Paul, with his gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4 , Eph 3:2, 1 Cor 9:17)
---michael_e on 4/28/15


I think I am a Christian because I am not a Republican and I do not support war.
---learner2 on 4/27/15


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Cluny, Of course they're in my bible, just not interpreted to suit my "ism" !
---1st_cliff on 4/27/15


\\Jesus said "Seek first the KINGDOM " not dwelling on blood and guts !\\

Isaac Watts wrote, "Shall I be carried to the clouds on flow'ry beds of ease/while others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas?"

\\Can you imagine Jesus dwelling on His suffering ??\\

I don't have to imagine. It's all through His words in the Holy Gospels. "I, if I be lifted up..." and "Thus it behooved Christ to suffer" come immediately to mind.

Or are these verses not in your Bible?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/27/15


David, it has come to my attention that after Swaggarts downfall, the Lord took him into the understanding of the Cross.....something missing before in his life, which actually lead to his downfall. Had Swaggarts obeyed that we live a crucified life to the FLESH, it may be that Swaggarts FLESH would not have lead to his downfall. Actually if you re read Galatians 2:20-21 again, GRACE is the Crucified life. Paul Peter, James all teach GRACE and all tell you GRACE is the CROSS that also applies to our own life. Even John in first John says, you know you have passed from DEATH to LIFE if you love the brethren. Our life comes out of death, just as Romans 6 clearly tell us.
---kathr4453 on 4/27/15


So yes, suffering is a part of our life, as we too are a continuation of His hands and feet in this world. -kathr4453

Thank you Kathryn for your answer. I have listened to Jimmy Swaggart on occasion, and I have always wondered what he was talking about.

His teachings tend to forget the Gospel of Grace taught by Christ, and now I have a better understanding why.
To him the favor of God is God making his children suffer.

If someone has to deal with a lifetime of suffering to have a relationship with God, why would they even want to be in a relationship?
---David on 4/27/15


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1 Corinthians 11:1
11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Paul too followed Christ. Cliff, Paul,was not the only one who taught this. Peter also teaches this same doctrine. If you pulled up every verse in the NT as I suggested, you will see they all taught it, and are all in agreement with one another. So this is not exclusively Paul. Did not Jesus also tell us we would suffer for His sake?

This is what I find so interesting with what you are saying.....you all say those who,believe in the rapture do so because they want to escape suffering. As you see, we don't escape suffering. BUT on that note, if you happen to be here during the great tribulation, what makes you believe you will escape then?
---kathr4453 on 4/27/15


JESUS SAID...

John 15:18-19

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Paul,clearly reiterates this in Galatians....we are crucified to the world and the world to us. And Cliff, the Kingdom of God is not of this world. So you think you can seek it and still be IN IT? You can't.
---kathr4453 on 4/27/15


Kathr, Some of us are followers of Christ and some followers of Paul,
You cite Paul's word like it was "scripture"!
Jesus said I'm sending you the "comforter" and along comes Paul riding in on his horse to save the Christians like "Captain America"
His Pharisee/Christian combo is nonsense= IE "in the body, out of the body" etc...
Jesus said "Seek first the KINGDOM " not dwelling on blood and guts !
Can you imagine Jesus dwelling on His suffering ??
Some how people like this stuff paying as much as $15,000 for a seat to see the upcoming "ultimate fight" in Vegas !
---1st_cliff on 4/26/15


David, my own words could never surpass God's word. Galatians 2:20 Is the preaching of the cross, and if you read and meditate on the book of Galatians, you will see Paul preaches the CROSS. He's teaching the CROSS to those already saved by the cross, and brings us deeper into the doctrine of the Cross. The WHOLE of Galatians is I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, leading up to it from Chapter 1, and further explaining it to the very last words of his letter to the Galatians. Chapter 3, immediately after 2:20 Paul asks, have you suffered so much IN VAIN, now going back under law that nullify' the cross???? Just as his words in 2:21 also say. So yes, suffering is a part of our life, as we too are a continuation of His hands and feet in this world.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/15


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Romans 8:18

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

If Christianity is MORBID to some, and they avoid it at all cost, then I would have to ask how they KNOW they are a Christian? I would suggest one get a strongs and look up every NT scripture with the word suffering and see if it applies to your life. If it doesn't, I would suggest getting on your knees and asking if you are TRULY IN THE FAITH. Then throw away your Osteen books full of lies.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/15


THIS is the preaching of the Cross. -kathr4453 on 4/24/15

Kathryn
In your own words, what is "The preaching of the cross"?
---David on 4/26/15


14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The only TRUTH you are going to find today is right in scripture. Yes, to someone being taught prosperity etc, would find the real TRUTH in comparison, morbid. But for those who know the truth of scripture, the end of those who follow those lies will be morbid. Jesus in John 6 was also approached by the prosperity group. He told them the truth...those who eat me flesh and drink my blood I will raise up in the last days. They too thought what He asked was MORBID and they walked away. Oh, I'm sure they still practiced their religion....but will not be raised up to Live forever with Christ.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/15


I 1st cliff, I'm not talking about SELF INFLICTED suffering. yes there are those who do that sort of thing. The problem is, Satan will always take truth and twist and distort it, and get the result you seem to be displaying and feeling right now. that is unfortunate.....BUT it still doesn't change the truth. Those who SUFFER with Him will also be glorified together with Him. Clearly stated in Romans 8. It's the truth, and it's a fact. No one is forcing this on you. Free will allows you to pick up your cross and follow Him, OR NOT. No one is forcing it on you.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/15


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\\Kathr, It's like this, every "Good Friday" the churches put on this play acting of Jesus being led through the streets, being whipped etc,,,in the Philipines there are those that actually fasten themselves to crosses in dramatization!
\\

Orthodox don't.

So you're wrong when you say "every church" does this. (Should that surprise us?)

\\ Dwelling of death is not what the Kingdom is about !\\

St. Paul would disagree with you.

One time he said, "We preach Christ crucified." Another time he said, "I was determined to know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and Him crucified."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/24/15


Kathr, It's like this, every "Good Friday" the churches put on this play acting of Jesus being led through the streets, being whipped etc,,,in the Philipines there are those that actually fasten themselves to crosses in dramatization!
Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly! Dwelling of death is not what the Kingdom is about !
---1st_cliff on 4/24/15


2 Corinthians 4:10

10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

Actually Cliff, hundreds of NT scriptures say you are wrong and mislead. Do you see the word ALWAYS above? Well believe it. You cannot manifest the LIFE of Christ in you without FIRST recognizing and submitting to the first part. THIS is the preaching of the Cross. There is nothing morbid about it. The power of His resurrection life in you comes at a cost TO YOU. But it's so worth it, beyond words.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/15


Kathr, 'Preaching of the cross" Simply means understanding "why" Christ had to exchange His life for ours!
It's not necessary to dwell on the gory part of Him dying!
Like the Catholic icons of Jesus hanging on a cross with blood running down His body!
We all know He suffered greatly without dramatizing it so as to dwell on the "pain".
Being murdered is not without pain, Like the Jordanian pilot who was doused with gasoline and set on fire, Excruciating!
As with Jesus ,death came and ended the suffering !
---1st_cliff on 4/24/15


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Scriptural Terms of Salvation:
So simple.
Acknowledge you are sinner, for all have sinned and come
short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23).
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that He died for your sins, was buried and rose again (Rom. 4:5, I Cor. 15:3,4).
---michael_e on 4/23/15


Regardless of what I have or have not done, the Spirit tells me that I am:

Rom 8:16-17 "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, And if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together"
---Mark_Eaton on 4/23/15


Cluny **But NOBODY uses names like Fellowship of His Sufferings church or "Crucified Life assembly"**
Why do you dwell on the "morbid?" He's alive and well !
---1st_cliff on 4/23/15

Why do you think that is morbid? Just because He's alive, doesn't mean YOU ARE. But the Lord has shown us how you CAN BE, if you don't believe the preaching of the cross is foolishness. The preaching of the cross is more than Jesus death and resurrection, but involves YOUR identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life, so that YOU can also be ALIVE AND WELL.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/15


\\Why do you dwell on the "morbid?" He's alive and well !
---1st_cliff on 4/23\\

It's not morbid. Jesus made it clear that this is part of following Him.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/23/15


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Cluny **But NOBODY uses names like Fellowship of His Sufferings church or "Crucified Life assembly"**
Why do you dwell on the "morbid?" He's alive and well !
---1st_cliff on 4/23/15


\\Paul said, that I may KNOW Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His suffering, being made conformable to His death\\

Good point, kathr.

I've noticed that many independent churches (especially mega ones) use names like "House of Miracles" or "Abundant Life."

But NOBODY ever uses names like "Fellowship of His Sufferings Church" or "Crucified Life Assembly."

Why is that?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/23/15


I became a believer when I heard and accepted the Gospel of Grace.
The salvation message is made clear from God today, in Paul's Gospel, Spoken prayers, Israel's water rites, public confessions, church attendance, will not earn salvation. Salvation rests entirely on the cross work of Christ on your behalf as they have been confessed by the divine inspiration of Pauls epistles.

I Stopped trusting a display of confession and started solely trusting in the words of Gods grace towards me in Christ, the hope of glory (Rom 4:24-25, 1 Cor 15:1-4)
---michael_e on 4/22/15


Cluny
Have you noticed, nobody in the Bible called themselves Christians? Those who were doing the miracles of Christ were called Christians, but they did not call themselves Christians.

I believe the reason for this, is because to call oneself a Christian, one is saying they are like Christ. Though one may be born of God, there is only one Christ. For the same reason, I call myself a believer or a follower of Christ.

Many folks call themselves Christians, because today it has taken on a different meaning, today it means a follower of Christ. With me, it is more than just semantics. I called myself a Christian before I was born of God, but now, the Holy Spirit makes me feel uncomfortable giving myself the title.
---David on 4/23/15


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A better question would be, " How do you KNOW you are a Christian"? Many people may THINK they are a Christian. But what we THINK and what we KNOW are two different things.

Paul said, that I may KNOW Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His suffering, being made conformable to His death .......

Many actually think they are a Christian who have no clue what that verse means or has even entered into the reality of it's truths. It's when you have....YOU KNOW YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/15


I am a Christian because I have called upon and believe in the Lord JESUS CHRIST.

John 3:15,16
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I have been Born Again based on the promises of GOD.

Rock of Ages cleft for me let me hide myself in thee. Let the water and the blood from thy riven side above be of sin the double cure. Make me whole and make me pure.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/15


I have been Baptized, and then I have not only given myself to Christ, but I have tried (these last 30+ years,) to cooperate with Him.

I have tried to keep close to the Sacraments, I pray daily, (and I am beginning to sound like the Pharisee in the story of the Publican and the Pharisee.)

In the end, though, it will be up to God's mercy, and I pray that the last words on my lips will be, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner."

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 4/22/15


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