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St Paul Save Some

"I became all things to all men that I might by all means save some." Why did St. Paul claim to be a savior?

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 ---Cluny on 4/25/15
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OK Trav,... 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius,... (KJV)---trey on 10/8/15

Place of birth, citizenship does not prove lineage/race.
We can determine somewhat with Cornelius described as "allophulos", compounded from "allos" or another of the same kind, phullos meaning kindred tribe AV.
He was devout(pious,reverent,godly)..fearing GOD. Careful and honoring O.T. Claims/prophets/prophecies knowing the the "ho theos" One True GOD. And Israelite...not Judean.
Think man...Israel is as the sands of the sea...Judah is 1/12th of the sand and the only ones you consider!! Wake up...Cornelius did 2,000 years ago. North House was cleansed of its Adultery by death of Christ.
---Trav on 10/9/15


Trav,...and Ishmael, a child of the flesh?
---trey on 10/8/15

I see what you have not...yet.
1. You are under the taught/learned indoctrination that Judah equals all Israel.
2. This doctrine appeals to you because you think you lord it over Judah. Gentile a Roman/Latin Vulgate word originating from "Ethnos" or Nations. It can be any race ethnos, but Paul's context is the "ethnos" of divorced Israel in Romans. "all Israel" Paul was sent to this "ethnos" who will recognize the gospel/good news. Being educated in Judaism he understands their loss and the Nth House opportunity.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
---Trav on 10/9/15


Trey, you need to understand something of Trav's beliefs when discussing a topic with him, especially the 12 tribes.
Jew is of Judah, residents including Levi and Benjamin.
Gentiles are the lost nation of Israel that was dispersed, the 10 northern tribes, mixed into the nations of the Earth.
Israel could mean the nation (10) or the family of Jacob (12 tribes)
It is these, that even though the Bible speaks of Italian, Greek, Egyptian, or otherwise, that are being found.
The Jews, though dispersed, maintained their nation through a remnant in Babylon.
Compare this with your definitions and ideas about these people groups and your discussion with Trav may go a little easier.
---micha9344 on 10/9/15


OK Trav, since we do not see eye to eye on who Israel is let us examine some other scriptures:

Ac 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, (KJV)
Do you believe that Cornelius, an Italian, was actually a lost Jew?

If he was one of Lost Israel then what was Peter's vision really about? Acts 10:11-15

If Cornelius was one of Lost Israel why did the disciples have such a dispute concerning the Gentiles not being circumcised in Acts 15?

Also, as a Jew, Cornelius would not have been allowed to serve as a Centurion in the Roman Legion.
---trey on 10/8/15


Trav,

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Do you understand that Paul is speaking of Isaac being the child of the promise and Ishmael, a child of the flesh?

Trav, do you understand this verse?
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
These Jews are not part of the Israel that Paul is speaking of in Rom 2:29. Their hearts were not circumcised.
---trey on 10/8/15




Paul tells us that "spiritual" Israel is made up of people who are Jews and Gentiles.

Rom 9:7 ... are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (KJV)
---trey on 10/7/15

"spiritual" Israel is not found in scripture and why you did not post it.
Lost Israel is in scripture. The Lost Sheep. Who Christ said he came for Matt 15:24. If GOD has found you perhaps you are and don't know it.
Judah is 1/12th of Israel. She is not the entire house.

In Isaac shall thy seed be called. This is your first clue.
Paul also said this:Rom_11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
---Trav on 10/8/15


Trav,
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: (KJV)

Paul tells us that "spiritual" Israel is made up of people who are Jews and Gentiles.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (KJV)

Abraham had two sons. One was a natural son, Ishmael. There was nothing supernatural about his birth. It did not matter that he was of Abraham's seed. Abraham's other son was Isaac. His birth was miraculous.

Isaac's birth is a picture of our spiritual birth. Every time one of God's children Jew or Gentile is born again it is a miracle.
---trey on 10/7/15


Trav, I understand why you believe what you believe based upon the scriptures you quoted.

If you are correct, then the scriptures were not written for me of non-Jewish ancestry, I am not included in the eternal covenant, and Christ did not die to me a Gentile. In other words, your interpretation of scriptures gives me no hope of eternity with my Lord.

If what I believe is true and naturally I am a Gentile but spiritually through the new birth I am a Jew then I was included in the eternal covenant, the scriptures were written for me, and Christ did die on the cross to pay the price for my sins and rose the third day for my justification and by his grace I will live with him in glory!
---trey on 10/7/15


Does it make sense to you that we Gentiles can also be Jews?
---trey on 10/6/15

Before I knew better.
Matt 10:6 and Matt 15:25.
Paul your commander/guide or Christ?
"gentile". It's origin is roman latin vulgate. Base is "ethno's", "nation", heathen, or people.
It can mean any group of common origin. Israel had common origin. A nation divided, 10/2 prophecied to be reunited.
Now Paul either is an outlaw or misunderstood by mistranslation / misunderstanding...of one word.
Note you are quoting Paul, not Christ, Apostles or Prophets. If the "ethnos" of the Nth House...who shared a common origin family tree, is understood, Pauls verses link with Christ and prophecies.
---Trav on 10/7/15


Trav, ...Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit,...
---trey on 10/6/15

To make a case lay out the prophecies by GOD through his Prophets.

Two below for the divorced nation, lost but being searched for by 12 Apostles and Christ.
These verses describes the covenant a circumcision of the heart mark you are referring too.
Jer_31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb_8:10 ... covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, ...
---Trav on 10/7/15




Trav, since you are on the subject of Israel, please note what Paul stated:

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: (KJV)

So it not all Israel are of Israel, the true Israel must be made up of jews and gentiles.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God. (KJV)

Here Paul defines Jews as those who have had a circumcision of the heart. Does God not circumcise the heart of Jews and Gentiles.

Does it make sense to you that we Gentiles can also be Jews?
---trey on 10/6/15


...why did God choose the Israelites to bring God's word to the world? Why did Jesus have to come to Earth? Why did Jesus chose twelve apostles...
---Steveng on 4/27/15

Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Luk_15:4 ...and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Exo_19:5... peculiar treasure unto me above all people:...
Deu_14:2...LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people....
Deu_26:18...LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, ...
Psa_135:4...LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, Israel for his peculiar treasure.
1Pe_2:9...holy nation, a peculiar people,... called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
---Trav on 10/6/15


There is more than just eternal salvation taught in the scriptures.
Ex 14:30 Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians, and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore. (KJV)
Mt 14:30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid, and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. (KJV)

Both verses are referring to a salvation here in time.

The Apostle Paul is not our eternal Savior, but if we follow his teaching we can be saved from many of the troubles of this life, the schemes of the devil, and the chastening hand of the Lord.

Hope that helps.
---trey on 10/5/15


Steven, you are right, but all that activity does not stem from the will of humans.
---learner2 on 4/28/15


Paul knew he wouldn't gain the whole world, but he knew belief in his gospel might save some
I Cor 9:23 "And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."
All Paul had on his heart, was to see lost people saved.
---michael_e on 4/28/15


learner2 wrote: My salvation does not depend on any human action, my own or anyone else's. It is completely God's doing."

If it's all God's doing, why did God choose the Israelites to bring God's word to the world? Why did Jesus have to come to Earth? Why did Jesus chose twelve apostles to preach the gospel, the (soon to come) Kingdom of God? Why are there preachers to carry on God's word? If it's all God's doing, why then have Jesus, the apostles, the teachers, the prophets been ordained? Who must do the baptising? Who will teach the newly born christian? The harvest is plenty, but the workers are few.
---Steveng on 4/27/15


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I tend to think that Paul, when using the word 'save', simply meant that he wanted to help them to become saved.

I've heard many people say "I was saved under the ministry of..." They were not saved by a specific minister but he was instrumental in them being saved. I feel that Paul meant that he hoped to be instrumental in some being saved by his preaching.

Any decent preacher would hope for the same I feel.
---Rita_H on 4/27/15


Jesus said to Paul He was sending Paul to "the Gentiles"
(Acts 26:17), "to open their eyes, to turn them from darkness to light,...
---Bill on 4/27/15

Act 26:17 (says) Delivering thee "from" the people, from the Gentiles,...
Called out of "Darkness" are a "Peculiar" people, Israel.
Exo_19:5... peculiar treasure unto me above all people:...
Deu_14:2...LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people....
Deu_26:18...LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, ...
Psa_135:4...LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, Israel for his peculiar treasure.
1Pe_2:9...holy nation, a peculiar people,... called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
---Trav on 4/27/15


This all things is "an under the sun" statement. He is not claiming to be THE savior. He is claiming to do all ideas, personality, objects, etc to display Christ. For example, Paul related the statue of the unknown god to God in Athens or ate like a Jew in Jewish circles or Gentile in Gentile circles. The idea here is of relationship.
---Scott1 on 4/27/15


Jesus said to Paul that He was sending Paul to "the Gentiles" (Acts 26:17), "to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me." (Acts 26:18) Paul did this in oneness with God doing this through him > 1 Corinthians 6:17, Galatians 2:20

And Paul commands us to also do this > 1 Corinthians 11:1.

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

. . . so we also are sharing with Jesus in us (Galatians 4:19), like this (c:
---Bill on 4/27/15


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My salvation does not depend on any human action, my own or anyone else's. It is completely God's doing.
---learner2 on 4/26/15


It is up to christians to save others from death.

It is up to christians to preach the gospel in order to save others. (1 Timothy 4:16) It is up to christians to bring the knowledge of Christ so they may be saved. (1 Timothy 2:4) It is the christian who converts a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multiple of the chritian's own sins. (James 5:19-20)
---Steveng on 4/25/15


"Why did St. Paul claim to be a savior?" Paul never claim to be "a savior" per se, he preached Christ and Him crucified in a way that was relatable and easily understood by whomever he was sharing the gospel message with, whatever their state of mind or being, that they might be turned from the darkness of the world to the light of Christ. Therefore the salvation that he was referring to is an enlightenment shared through him that could, if adhered to, rescue one who is in danger of destruction, by opening their minds to receiving the goodness of the Father which would lead them to repentance, that He might work through them to believe in the One sent as Savior, the Lord Jesus, The Christ.
---joseph on 4/25/15


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