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Is Mary A Co-Redemptrix

According to some on these blogs, the Roman Catholic Church looks at Mary as co-redemptrix. Is she?

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 4/27/15
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Richard: "The belief that the soul lives on out side the body is a view that is held by many Christians"

So? Many Christians hold to false beliefs. Otherwise, we would all agree. The point is that the Bible does not agree with them on this point, and I choose to believe the Bible rather than the opinions of men.

Man is not an immortal, conscious entity that can live without a body. Immortality comes at the resurrection concurrent with the second coming (at the last day).

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.


---jerry6593 on 5/6/15


Tray, lets stick to the subject and not jump around.
I explained why Mary is called queen of Heaven because Jesus is the King of Heaven.
Someone else claimed Bathsheba was never a queen. I used Scripture to show when she became a queen solely because her son became king.
Be a man and accept I proved my validity.

Darlene, our verses are no different than those of King James translation from each other. But the meaning are the same. But, there are difference in the number of books of our Bible in the Old Testament only.
But, history has shown that the first edition of King James had 73 books. 2nd edition dropped 7 books to 66 books.
Rememeber Martin Luther was a Catholic Priest. He owned a 73 book bible.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/5/15


micha, Jesus never said that only God knew the time of His return.

He said only the FATHER knew the time of His return.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/15


Nicole_Lacey wrote: "Either you accept Scripture or not.

Scripture supports my validity, because I read the WHOLE BIBLE."

The bible says not to make any statues, catholics do. The bible says not to repeat your prayers as the heathen do, catholics do. The bible says Mary is dead, but catholics continue to pray to her and other dead people. The bible says man is blessed, but the catholics bless animals and objects. The bible says to use the Word of God as its own reference, the catholics use catechism to interpret scripture.
---Steveng on 5/5/15


Again, we Catholic don't make this stuff up.
Either you accept Scripture or not.
Scripture supports my validity, because I read the WHOLE BIBLE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/5/15

Your validity, the more so your universal church, is still in question.
No one prayed to Bathsheba.
Christ did not instruct anyone to pray to Mary.
You can never validate praying to her or to dead Saint whoever, because it is not authorized in scripture. Rather the opposite is.

You claim you read your bible but, you are not seeing or hearing what is in it.
If you were you'd know that in over 500 scriptures about praying they are all to GOD.

Your church lately is a nest of pedophiles that your Pope protects.
---Trav on 5/5/15




Jerry - Pagan - Spiritualism - The belief that the soul lives on out side the body is a view that is held by many christians,

Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it,

Ezekiel 18:20 - { Soul that sinneth die }

1 John 3,9

Keep reading - Ezekiel - 18:21 - he shall not die - Ezekiel - 18:22 - he shall live - Ezekiel 18:23 - return from his ways and live - and again John 11:26,

1 Timothy 6:16 - haven't work on that verse, ( But saved man gets immortality, a new creature in Christ comes to mind )

Then we have - Enoch - Genesis 5:24 - Elijah - 2 Kings 2:1 ------>

Psalm 30:3
---RichardC on 5/5/15


Nicole Lacey just a respectful reminder the Catholic Bible has some verses the other bibles don't have and the Catholic Bible in the past has left out verses they didn't want their people to read. Example the King James Bible and other similar Bibles speak of Jesus's brother's and sister's and the Catholic Bible I read left it out. That causes your knowledge of the Bible to be different from ours. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/5/15


Nowhere in scripture is Bathsheba associated with the title "queen", unlike Esther, ...
"That is scripture" is a false statement. How can we believe the validity of any of your other statements concerning the "queen of heaven"?---micha9344

Sorry, but ignoring Scripture will not make it go away.

1 King 2:19
.... the king (Solomon) arose to meet her (Bathsheba), BOWED before her and sat on his THRONE. Then he had a THRONE set for the King's mother and she sat on his right.

Sorry, but thrones are only for Kings and Queen.

Again, we Catholic don't make this stuff up.
Either you accept Scripture or not.

Scripture supports my validity, because I read the WHOLE BIBLE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/5/15


//God's power isn't the same as the Holy Spirit.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/2/15//

The Holy Spirit is God. God is Spirit and those who worship Him must do so in Spirit and Truth.---donna9393 on 5/4/15

Read Luke 1 again.
"Holy Spirit will come upon you and the Power of the Most High will overshadow you" These are the Angel's words not mine.

Holy Spirit is stated as a Noun.
Power of the Most will overshadow you.
Power is used as Verb. Action
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/5/15


Cluny if created isn't the proper word to use then give me one that you think is correct. I never said Mary was a surrogate,of course Jesus was given DNA from Mary. Whatever you want to call it of course God's power joined Mary's flesh and formed Jesus,the Word of God,in the womb,a complete human being of flesh and blood. What God did was a miracle no matter how you look at it or define it and frankly that is really what matters. God BLess
---Darlene_1 on 5/5/15




\\ I am talking about Jesus a flesh and blood human being was created\\

The Logos took His human nature from the Virgin Mary in the incarnation. That's the only way He could be descended from Abraham and Adam, as the Gospels say.

It wasn't a specially created body and a surrogate rent-a-womb arrangement.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/15


Perhaps?
---Steveng on 5/4/15

Yes, perhaps. And your point?

I am not one of those people who believe we will know everything when we get in the Lord's presence. All our questions will not be answered and we will not have all knowledge.

If we had all knowledge, we would be God. And we are not God.

So in my mind, there is no perhaps.

Jesus now definitely knows the day He is going to return to Earth.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/5/15


Nicole Lacey perhaps you haven't been on here long enough to have seen where I have stated many times that Jesus is the Word of God made flesh and also I have quoted several times the Bible verse John 1:1 where it says The Word was made flesh. Furthermore I also have given the verse where it says God,the Word(Jesus),and the Holy Spirit are one. When you see parts of verses or something paraphrased it is because of the limit on length of each of our entries by CNet,you may notice I put dashes where I have to leave part of the verse out. I've never denied that Jesus is the Word,son,of God but he is the flesh man not the Spirit God. God took His Word to be the flesh as human because without the shedding of blood there is no sacrifice. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/5/15


Cluny I know you mean Jesus as the Word was already God from the very beginning but I am talking about Jesus a flesh and blood human being was created. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/4/15


John 9:11 - He answered and said, A { Man that is called Jesus) made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight,

Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and Hour { Knoweth no Man, } no,not the angels in heaven, But my Father only
---RichardC on 5/4/15


Cluny said: But Rome actually sits on NINE hills.

Wikipedia has an article about the "Seven Hills of Rome". It mentions: Aventine,, Caelian Capitoline, Esquiline, Paatine, Quirinal, Viminal. It also mentions Vatican, Pincian, Janiculum that are not counted, which makes 10 hills.


Trav said: You 2 guys (?) "blindly" shoveling to camo a centuries old mark, make you and the ancient mark more pertinent.

It took me a long time to decipher what this means. Camo, as in camouflage? "camouflage" can be used as a noun, adjective, or verb, but "camo" can only be used as a noun or adjective.
---StrongAxe on 5/5/15


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Richardc: "Jerry - Think your dealing with two subjects , One the Spirit the other the physical body, Spirit alive, The body is dead or sleeping"

Your theory aligns well with pagan spiritualism, but not at all with the Bible. You should start with basics to define what a soul is:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

The soul IS the complete person - not the spirit or breath of life. Souls are not immortal:

1Ti 6:16 [God] Who only hath immortality

Souls can die:

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.


---jerry6593 on 5/5/15


Mark_Eaton wrote: "Perhaps He does, now."

Perhaps?
---Steveng on 5/4/15


Nicole_Lacey wrote: "Jesus does whatever His Father wanted Him to do and know."

You're just guessing, but the bible expressly says God only knows the time of the end not the angels, not the Son.
---Steveng on 5/4/15


Cluny Thank you for your input but Jesus had to be created for it was the power of God that overshadowed Mary and Jesus was called the child of the Holy Spirit. There was nothing physical to have a child who was formed in the Fallopian Tubes of woman as they usually are when male and female gametes meet to make the embryo. Jesus was formed in the Womb according to the verse in the Bible therefore it makes sense that God joined Mary's physical by a miracle of creation to make the Spiritual God/Holy Spirit to be the Father of Jesus. If you have Bible verses to give to prove I am wrong they are more than welcome. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/4/15


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But Rome actually sits on NINE hills.
---Cluny on 5/1/15

Ha. Officially Rome says they don't.
Thanks..."Seven Hills worth".
You 2 guys (?) "blindly" shoveling to camo a centuries old mark, make you and the ancient mark more pertinent.
Even today rome proudly advertises and recognizes only the ancient seven hills they reside on.
Deceiving only yourselves, you've made your bed.
Scarlet "Sheep"? Only in your pen.
May be the same church you guys had here in Isa.
Isa 57:3 But draw near...
Isa 57:4 ... are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
---Trav on 5/4/15


//God's power isn't the same as the Holy Spirit.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/2/15//

The Holy Spirit is God. God is Spirit and those who worship Him must do so in Spirit and Truth.
---donna9393 on 5/4/15


Trav,
If you don't believe Jesus is King of Heaven, please state He isn't.
Quit spinning. Come out with it, Man.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/4/15

Scripture doesn't spin. King of heaven is a term not used of Christ or by Christ.
You cannot explain why you guys appeal to Mary, or dead saint whoever's, when Christ is the only intercessor to GOD.
It's notable that scripture says he is King over Israel...all Israel. King of Kings, Lord of Lords over this earth.
Mat_22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
Mat_22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Catholicism is a cult and their monks spin doctrines.
---Trav on 5/4/15


So, if Jesus is God, why doesn't he know the time of the end?
---Steveng on 5/3/15

Perhaps He does, now.

Col. 2:7 "but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men"

Perhaps this knowledge He emptied from Himself before He came to Earth and when reunited with the Father, took back?

Seems to me that Jesus is a smart cookie and He knew people would ask Him about the end times. Jesus did not want to lie therefore He removed it from His knowledge.

So at that time it was asked and answered, the Son did not know.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/4/15


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Jerry - Think your dealing with two subjects , One the Spirit the other the physical body, Spirit alive, The body is dead or sleeping - Spirit and new body united on last day, - Refer 1 corinthians 15:44 ------------>

Romans 8:10 - And if Christ be in you, The body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is life because of righteousness, also refer Matthew 22:32

Act 2:34 - Refer to Matthew 22:34 - He said unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying ---------->
---RichardC on 5/4/15


/You know that Solomon's Mother became Queen when King David died. That is Scripture.\-Nicole_Lacey on 5/4/15
1Ki 2:10-12 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. And the days that David reigned over Israel [were] forty years: seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem. Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father, and his kingdom was established greatly.
-Nowhere in scripture is Bathsheba associated with the title "queen", unlike Esther, Vashti, Candice, and the queen of Sheba.
"That is scripture" is a false statement. How can we believe the validity of any of your other statements concerning the "queen of heaven"? (Jer 44)
---micha9344 on 5/4/15


It is said that God only knows the time of the end, not the angels not the Son. So, if Jesus is God, why doesn't he know the time of the end? ---Steveng on 5/3/15

For the same reason when he was born and hungry he cried waiting for Mary to breast feed Him.
As a baby He could have baked bread and ate fish if He wanted.

But He came to do God His Father's Will.

Which was to be a baby before being a Man.

Remember Adam and Eve never were babies.

Jesus does whatever His Father wanted Him to do and know.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/4/15


Trav, everything you said about Catholics came out of thin air.

I explained why Mary is Queen of Heaven because Jesus is King of Heaven.

You know that Solomon's Mother became Queen when King David died. That is Scripture.

If you don't believe Jesus is King of Heaven, please state He isn't.

Quit spinning. Come out with it, Man.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/4/15


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/It is said that God only knows the time of the end, not the angels not the Son. So, if Jesus is God, why doesn't he know the time of the end?\-Steveng on 5/3/15
Birth: Phi 2:6-7 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Life: John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself, but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Resurrection: Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
-Jesus never said that he will never know. While He was in mortality, He said He didn't know.
---micha9344 on 5/4/15


Yes Jesus is GOD. But he is also a man. That it is why it is called the Incarnation.

GOD in human flesh. So in the flesh he did not know everything. But he could see what was in the hearts of men.

1John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world.

2John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Rock of Ages cleft for me.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/4/15


Yup, do you know why Mary is queen of heaven?
...Catholic...thin air.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/1/15

Roman universal thin air having no scriptural witnesses by Prophet, Christ or Apostle.
Not the first time a Queen of heaven was "idolized"... or punished.

Jer_44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven,,...
Jer_44:25...Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows....

Jer 44:29 this shall be a sign unto you, saith the LORD, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil:
---Trav on 5/4/15


\\That belief denies the supernatural ability of God to create Jesus by His power.\\

But Jesus is not created.

This is the heresy of Arius.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/4/15


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Richardc:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


It is not yet "the last day".


---jerry6593 on 5/4/15


Correct Darlene! God doesn't have relations with humans including Mary.
You are correct when you said God can do everything.
Including only using Mary's DNA.
"Holy Spirit will come upon you and the Power of the Most High will overshadow you" These are the Angel's words not mine.

I meant you left words out when stating your case.
Many love to pick and choose verses without finishing the exact words used.
Jesus has only one set of DNA period. But He is still God.

You say God can do everything but you seem to have trouble believing Jesus is still God during the 9 months He was in Mary's womb??
Why?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/3/15


It is said that God only knows the time of the end, not the angels not the Son. So, if Jesus is God, why doesn't he know the time of the end?
---Steveng on 5/3/15


Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die : but The dead know not any thing,( neither have they any more reward,) for the memory of them is forgotten,

Matthew 5:12 - Rejoice and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heaven ------->

2 Corinthians 5:6 - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord,

John 11:26 - And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die, Believest thou this ?

Luke 23:24 - And Jesus said unto him, verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise,
---RichardC on 5/3/15


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Nicole Lacey With all respect for your right to your beliefs I must disagree. I never said I was Trinity therefore I don't understand why you brought that up. I do not change words in the Bible,not now,not ever. God never had relations with Mary like a man does and never supplied DNA as a human man does. God is a Spirit not flesh like man. That belief denies the supernatural ability of God to create Jesus by His power. Numbers 23:19 God is not a man---. Men can have no seed or offspring without a woman. God could do anything,anyway He wants to. The Holy Spirit has exactly the same kind of power God does because that power comes from God and is God and without God there is no power. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/3/15


Mary is dead!


Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.



---jerry6593 on 5/3/15


Strong Axe If I remember right Hell isn't a place of eternal torment so the Jews didn't need to have that concept in their teaching. It is the Lake of Fire and Brimstone which is the Eternal Torment as given in Revelations. Thanks for the information,yes I've heard the thing about Sheol before but it doesn't change me accepting there is a hell. The reason I think there is hell is because the wicked will be thrown into it for punishment. The dead have no knowledge in the grave therefore it couldn't be punishment for the wicked because the righteous die and are buried too. Psalms 9:16,17 show plainly people are sent to hell for punishment. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/2/15


Darlene, do you believe in the Trinity? Why? Isn't in Scripture. Common sense. But you are not allowed to change words in the bible to support your argument.
God's power isn't the same as the Holy Spirit.
Gabriel explains how she will conceive a son without relations with a man.
He states "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you....the Son of God..." Not the son of Joseph.
God needs a body to give DNA to Jesus without a 2nd body. No man. Genesis 3:15 Either your bible says seed or offspring. Only men give seeds or offspring. Not with a this woman. Which Jesus calls her=woman John 2:4 & 19:26th
Mary is the woman in Genesis. Jesus is the Seed or Offspring.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/2/15


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After looking at the storm that this particular blog question has raised, I have to say that:

1. A devotion to Mary does not in any way interfere with the love and worship that we have for Jesus.

2. I have a devotion to Mary, and it has led me closer to Christ, not farther away.

3. The only reason that Catholics and Orthodox have any devotion to Mary at all is that she was the mother of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/2/15


"Yes. So do Lutherans and Presbyterians."

I know A LOT of Presbytrians, including many of their ministers and none teach this.
---Rita_H on 5/1/15


Martin Luther: "She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."

Jean Chauvin (aka John Calvin): "Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God."

Ulrich Zwingli: "The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/15


Darlene_1:

You said: Strong Axe here are the verses which show the Old Testament does say evil doers are sent to hell. Psalms 9:16,17

The Hebrew word translated here (and elsewhere in the Old Testament) as "hell" is "sheol", which literally mean "grave". This jibes with "the wages of sin is death". Ancient Judaism had no concept of a place of eternal torment.
---StrongAxe on 5/1/15


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To those who think Mary is the Mother of God, Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that He should lie:neither the son of man,that he should repent:--. God is a Spirit,Mary Couldn't give birth to God the Spirit and Jesus was God's Word made flesh,not God the Spirit made flesh. God gave Jesus all power in heaven and in earth,if Jesus was God the Spirit he would not had to be given all the power he would already have it. God's power hovered over Mary and formed Jesus,God would not have formed himself too for the world needed a flesh and blood sacrifice for the sins of mankind not a Spirit. Mary as the Mother of God is a denominational teaching or error. If there's a verse to prove me wrong in the Bible then give it please. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/1/15


\\Do YOU believe that also?\\

Yes. So do Lutherans and Presbyterians, Chauvin even taught the perpetual virginity of Mary.

And what's more, so does the Bible, as I pointed out to you.

The real question is why don't YOU believe this, Rita. (Note I'm saying NOTHING about Marian devotion here. It will be a fruitless topic of discussion.)

Mother of God/Theotokos has to do with Who JESUS is and the union of His Divine and Human natures in one Person. Only secondarily is it about Mary.

As I said, I don't intend to discuss such doctrines here, other than to assert the Virgin's Son is fully God and Man, and as God He experienced everything we do, including human birth, through His human nature.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/15


R.C.s do actually believe that Mary is now Queen of Heaven interceding for those who pray to her BECAUSE (to them) she IS the mother of God. Do YOU believe that also? ---Rita_H on 5/1/15

Yup, do you know why Mary is queen of heaven? Because Jesus is King of Heaven. Look in the Old Testament. The Queen of Israel was the mother of the king, not the wife.
As Solomon's mother status changed when David the King died. She became the Queen of Israel. The King had too many wives.
So compare, if Jesus is King what is His Mother's title?
QUEEN.
You know we Catholic don't come up with these things from thin air.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/1/15


she's (Mary) not all knowing, not sovereign, doesn't have all power like God Our Father and Jesus His Son..."Why do you pray to Mary when you can go directly to God who has the power to answer your prayer?"--donna9393

Mary isn't a God. So Jesus has to TELL Mary our request.---Nicole_Lacey on 4/30/15

What part of Mary is not God did you not understand??????
Tell me where did I said she is all knowing?

That's the problem. You put words into our mouths.
Please tell me where in the CCC does it say Mary is a God?? It doesn't.

You can go directly to God.
I answered you, so please return the favor.
Why do you ask your Preachers and others on this website to pray for you?
Please answer that question.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/1/15


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Cluny "It means that her Son is truly God and Man in one Person. Mary gave birth to a PERSON, not merely a human body." I was brought up an Anglican living very close to a R.C. family. THEY definitely believed that Mary was the mother of God - period. every R.C. I have met since then believed the same.

I know exactly what you mean by what you say but many R.C.s do actually believe that Mary is now Queen of Heaven interceding for those who pray to her BECAUSE (to them) she IS the mother of God. Do YOU believe that also?

I think the bible would make it clear to all of us if that were so AND IT DOES NOT.
---Rita_H on 5/1/15


Cluny, I see, but I don't mind redirecting people who are truly misguided.

Rita, if you can't say Mary is the mother of God, than you can't say Jesus is God.

Do you have any sons? If yes, are you a boy or a girl?
Having a boy doesn't make you are a boy. You are still a girl.
The same for Mary. Giving birth to God does not mean she is a God.
You are the mother of the boy. And she is the mother of God.

If everyone is dead, how did the witch called on Samuel for King Saul?

Jesus Himself said, He is the God of the living not the dead. According to Jesus, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still living.

So is everyone claiming Jesus is wrong and you are correct in saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are dead??.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/1/15


Strong Axe here are the verses which show the Old Testament does say evil doers are sent to hell. Psalms 9:16,17 The Lord is known by the judgement which he executes,the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.17 The wicked shall be turned into hell and all nations that forget God. These verses prove the wicked are sent to hell and by God's own Word a necromancer and one who talks to the dead are evildoers/wicked therefore according to the Word in the OT they are sent to hell for it. Whether killed on earth for the offense or dead naturally they will be judged and condemned to hell.God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/1/15


Nicole,...If you think that scripture teaches us otherwise please quote those scriptures.
3. No-one here hates Mary but we obey scripture which tells us not to contact the dead.
Read Darlene's answer very carefully, she is absolutely correct.
---Rita_H on 5/1/15

1.Deuteronomy 18:9-12... There shall not be found among you -- or a necromancer,or one who inquires of the dead--.
2. Mary is dead,... it's a dangerous practice.
3. The Bible tells us the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ... God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 4/30/15

Wow, wow.
Best two Post on the subject...ever. Thank you for supporting with scripture. It testified...to those who see and hear scriptures. May you be blessed.
---Trav on 5/1/15


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\\ Mary was the mother of the earthly body of Christ, not the mother of God.\\

Rita, Mother of God or Theotokos never meant that Mary was the progenetrix of the Deity.

It means that her Son is truly God and Man in one Person. Mary gave birth to a PERSON, not merely a human body.

The Scripture in Luke 1 supports that Mary is Mother of God. St. Elizabeth, full of the Holy Spirit, exclaims, "What is this to me, that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?" (v. 47). And who is the Lord but God?

To say that Mary merely gave birth to a human body is to fall into the heresy of Nestorius.

Nicole--see why I don't discuss Marian Doctrine here?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/15


Darelen Rita

Great answers.

The dead are asleep in the grave until the resurrection.

Many in the RCC do pray to Mary. The Rosary is a prayer in which Mary is included. In fact some see her as the primary person to pray to.

Popes have dedicated countries and churches to her.

Rock of Ages cleft for me.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/1/15


...Let me put it another way. Jews simply never used the words "saved," "salvation," ...
Nicole--What is the point of discussing Marian doctrines on these blogs,...
---Cluny on 4/30/15

Judean Christ did. He didn't say to call on his "momma".
Luk_19:9 Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Act_13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

You've made a c-luny "climb" ladder but, it's collapsed under you. Ahhhhhhhhhhh
---Trav on 5/1/15


\\Cluny, your response is confusing to me. I've got childlike faith so please forgive me for not understanding the first part of your response.\\

What is it that you don't understand, Donna? (There's a difference between childlike and childish.)

Let me put it another way. Jews simply never used the words "saved," "salvation," and "savior" in the way Christians do.

Nicole--What is the point of discussing Marian doctrines on these blogs, when too many of the participants don't even believe that the Virgin's Son is God Incarnate?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/15


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Darlene_1:

You said: To inquire of a dead person is go to hell

To be precise, nothing in the Old Testament prescribes hell for any offense. The one specifically recorded incident of this particular offense (Saul and the witch of Endor) merely earned Saul the death penalty.
---StrongAxe on 4/30/15


Nicole, you are misguided and mis-taught. Mary was the mother of the earthly body of Christ, not the mother of God. She was born a human being and died as one and will remain in her grave until Judgement Day. If you think that scripture teaches us otherwise please quote those scriptures. No-one here hates Mary but we obey scripture which tells us not to contact the dead.

Read Darlene's answer very carefully, she is absolutely correct.
---Rita_H on 5/1/15


Deuteronomy 18:9-12, I'll only share this part: There shall not be found among you -- or a necromancer,or one who inquires of the dead--. Mary is dead,no where have I ever seen that she arose or is alive,if you have a Bible verse to that effect please share it. To inquire of a dead person is go to hell,therefore praying to Mary,a dead woman,is in vain,there is no knowledge in the grave,and it's a dangerous practice. The Bible tells us the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ,that's why we are to pray in Jesus name. It is sad how human beings complicate and add to the things of God. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 4/30/15


Cluny, your response is confusing to me. I've got childlike faith so please forgive me for not understanding the first part of your response.

Nicole...no one is hating on Mary. I was raised Catholic and I used to pray to her...she's not all knowing, not sovereign, doesn't have all power like God Our Father and Jesus His Son and Holy Spirit does.

They are the only ones who know everything, see everything, hears every prayer. Mary doesn't have those powers. I got saved in the 1980's because someone said to me, "Why do you pray to Mary when you can go directly to God who has the power to answer your prayer?" That made sense to me so I tried it and He answered me!
---donna9393 on 4/30/15


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Christ is risen!
Cluny

Truly, He is risen!

You are correct about the English origin.
But Latin will improve ones English and grammar.
As you can tell I know what know very little Latin.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/30/15


Bill, I guess you don't have many Catholic friends.

If you can ask your Preacher to pray for you, why are you claiming we can't ask the Mother of God to pray for us?
Is your Preacher more in touch with Jesus than his own Mother?
Mary isn't a God. So Jesus has to TELL Mary our request.

Why did Jesus ordered the healed Leper to see a Priest after He just healed him?
Or why did Jesus wait for Mary to tell Him the wedding couple ran out of wine?
Are you suggesting Jesus didn't know about the wine until Mary told Him? Of course not.
Mary's last written words were "...do whatever He tells you." John 2:5
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/30/15


No Donna, you are not mistaken. Plus keep reading past that verse. She also said ALL generations will call me Blessed.

All means this generation as well.
Why are people hating on Mary?
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/30/15


\\Or am I missing something?
---donna9393 on 4/30/15\\

Yes, you are.

In Jewish thought at the time (and still today) one is saved and redeemed by being part of the saved and redeemed people, not because one made a decision to invite YHVH into one's heart and accept Him as one's personal savior.

It had nothing to do with being saved from sin and its consequences, but rather from the evil Gentiles. To say otherwise is to project fairly modern Evangelical Christian views back 2000 and more years.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/15


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Didn't Mary, in her prayer say, My soul rejoices in God my Savior? So she acknowledge she needed a Savior too, right? Or am I missing something?
---donna9393 on 4/30/15


Let me point out that this is not and never has been the teaching of the Orthodox Church.

And since we don't change anything (parishes have split over whether to change a light bulb), it will never be.

(Of course, when you're not going to change anything, nobody has to be infallible.)

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/15


\\But our Apostle Paul did not say this.\\

He didn't say to have invitation hymns, altar calls, or revivals, either.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/15


Ones claiming to be Roman Catholic say she is making intercession for us and we need to seek her to pray for us.

But our Apostle Paul did not say this. Also John, while he saw Heaven during the vision of Revelation, does not report that he saw Mary on the throne with Jesus.

But Paul says Jesus Himself "makes intercession for us," in Romans 8:37. So, we now have our Groom Jesus praying for us . . . according to His faith!!!

I do not remember any Catholic ever telling me that Jesus is making intercession for us. The only attention has been to intercession by Mary.
---Bill on 4/30/15


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/Mary was the chosen vessel by God in the which He is to come to earth & live among mankind.\-Lawrence on 4/29/15
-So was Rahab, Ruth, Tamar, and Bathsheba.
-Eve, the mother of all, could also be called the mother of God, since Jesus would be part of the "all."
Noah's wife, whom scripture did not name, is also in there.
---micha9344 on 4/30/15


Ones claiming to be Roman Catholic say she is making intercession for us and we need to seek her to pray for us.

But our Apostle Paul did not say this. Also John, while he saw Heaven during the vision of Revelation, does not report that he saw Mary on the throne with Jesus.

But Paul says Jesus Himself "makes intercession for us," in Romans 8:34. So, we now have our Groom Jesus praying for us . . . according to His faith!!!

I do not remember any Catholic ever telling me that Jesus is making intercession for us. The only attention has been to intercession by Mary.
---Bill on 4/30/15


It's a deceiving redemptrick of the devil no doubt he saying Mary is. There are those that believe she is, or they wouldn't use their formality hand jesters, when they come across a pict or figure.

Mary was the chosen vessel by God in the which He is to come to earth & live among mankind.
---Lawrence on 4/29/15


1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one mediator between God and men, The man Christ Jesus ,

Luke 1:28 - And an angel came unto her and said , Hail thou that art highly favored , the Lord is with thee: Blessed art thou among women ,

Romans 4:7 - Saying blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and who sins are covered.

Roman 3:23 - For all have sin, and come short of the glory of God,

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him,
---RichardC on 4/29/15


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On the contrary, Cluny. Mary is considered co-redemptrix according to the Catechism (and other catholic documents).

Mary is inseparably linked with the saving work of her Son. (Pg. 332, # 1172)

Taken up to heaven Mary did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation... (Pg. 274-275, #969)


Catholics (and other denominations) believe that Mary is still living and in heaven. Altars and temples are built for her. Catholics believe that she answers prayers and pray to her. And her apparitions throughout the world doesn't help. Mary is dead.
---Steveng on 4/28/15


She is indirectly, having given birth to the Redeemer.
---learner2 on 4/28/15


The real question should be if the RCC really looks upon Mary as co-redemptrix.

The answer is no, the RCC does not.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/15


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