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Nation Of Israel

I am curious to hear/discuss opinions about the current Nation of Israel and Jewish people in general.
What do you think about it/them?

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 ---Rod4Him on 5/16/15
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StrongAxe, it's Tractate Sanhedrin 52b.
---learner2 on 6/15/15


learner2:

You said: you will find that Talmudic law as harsh as Sharia law. For Gentiles, only one witness and one judge are necessary to convict, and the punishment for any crime, no matter how minor, is death by decapitation.

Can you cite any specfic Talmudic passages that require only one witness or death for minor crimes involving Gentiles are? Both directly contradict scripture mandates (i.e. specific penalties for specific crimes, and strangers living among Jews are subject to the same laws).

Also, even if Jews had their own law within their own jurisdiction, they made no attempt to enforce this on thers OUTSIDE their jurisdiction (compare with Muslims who try to enforce sharia on the entire world).
---StrongAxe on 6/14/15


If you study carefully, you will find that Talmudic law as harsh as Sharia law. For Gentiles, only one witness and one judge are necessary to convict, and the punishment for any crime, no matter how minor, is death by decapitation.

But for Jews, two or three witnesses are required and there must be at least three judges. And capital punishment is limited to a very few crimes
---learner2 on 6/12/15


The Israelis are usually better behaved than many of their neighbors. And while their society is influenced by the concepts taught in the Torah, they have their full share of miscreants. There are plenty of Christians in the Holy Land who could tell you personal stories of being discriminated against as well. In my opinion, the pro Israeli screeching giant revolving propaganda machine, served by spin doctors and starry eyed apologists, annoys me. Those people who truly trust in the Lord to save them, Jew or Gentile, will spend eternity in His blessed presence. The damned will spend unending time with their own Daddy the Devil. Mark 16:15-16, Act 10:34-35, Romans 1:13-?.
---Glenn on 6/10/15


You still haven't explained why priests from the tribe of Levi - the Pharisees that provided Jesus's main opposition - were those HE personally called Jews. Was Jesus sloppy too?
---StrongAxe on 6/2/15

Think in the manner the scripture treats these two houses.

There were two houses. House of Israel and the House of Judah.
Like Cluny mentions Levites joined the House of Judah. The would fall under the collective house title when appropriate.

The "Lost Sheep" House of Israel included ten tribes. Yet they are still properly called the "House of Israel".
---Trav on 6/10/15




\\ You still haven't explained why priests from the tribe of Levi - the Pharisees that provided Jesus's main opposition - \\

FWIW, the Pharisees tended to be the rabbis. The Cohenim--Levitcal Priests--were mostly Saducees.

Oddly enough, the Saducees considered themselves purists about what texts were inspired.

But this is as long story and too complex for these blogs. Books have been written on this subject.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/9/15


Trav:

You said: This is not your fault StrongAxe. I was your mindset too. It is what we have been taught by sloppy, blind, non called of GOD teachers, preachers.

You still haven't explained why priests from the tribe of Levi - the Pharisees that provided Jesus's main opposition - were those HE personally called Jews. Was Jesus sloppy too?
---StrongAxe on 6/2/15


... they were all collectively known as Jews.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/15

This is not your fault StrongAxe. I was your mindset too. It is what we have been taught by sloppy, blind, non called of GOD teachers, preachers.
I even had your attitude, I set out to prove the arrogant man pointing to scripture, that he was wrong, wrong, wrong. (I wish I could wash his feet right now)
Scripture witness, upon witness took over speaking to me instead of him.
You call the 11/12ths what you like. Obviously finding what is lost is not your cup-o-tea. Luk_22:30...judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Act_26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, ...
Jas_1:1 James, ...to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
---Trav on 6/2/15


Trav:

You said: You, StrongAxe stated " from every jewish tribe".
I said there is only one Judean tribe. Judah.
Your statement reflects the modern false teaching/doctrines...that Judah equals all Israel.


2000 years ago, after the return from exile, most (but not all) of those who returned were from the southern kingdom. Nevertheless, there is almost no mention of all the other tribes in the New Testament - they were all collectively known as Jews.

Jesus frequently railed against the Jews, but who were they? They weren't the common people (except when incited by Pharisees, before Pilate. They were Pharisees, some of whom were levites and priests (from the tribe of Levi), yet still called Jews.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/15


Trav:
...144,000 witnesses, from every Jewish tribe

...if your contention is that Jews are Judah only, but are universally evil, how do you explain Rev 7:5?
---StrongAxe on 5/28/15

You, StrongAxe stated " from every jewish tribe".

I said there is only one Judean tribe. Judah.

Your statement reflects the modern false teaching/doctrines...that Judah equals all Israel.

Where did I say universally evil? I didn't. They are for the most part actively Anti-Christ. Non believers in Christ.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_2:18 ... even now are there many antichrists, whereby we know ....
---Trav on 5/29/15




Jews and Israelis are just groups among many groups of people. They should be evaluated according to their merits and faults like anyone else. They are no more good or evil than others.
---learner2 on 5/28/15


Trav:

I said: And where did I ever say otherwise?
Earlier, I said: How about the 144,000 witnesses, from every Jewish tribe
You said: There was only one, Judah.

I was merely referring to Rev. 7:4-8, in particular, Rev 7:5: Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.

Are you disputing Revelation? Because it mentions all of those tribes, not only Judah. But even so, if your contention is that Jews are Judah only, but are universally evil, how do you explain Rev 7:5? If you're trying to get at something else, what am I missing?

you must be human like the rest of us.

On this we can both agree.
---StrongAxe on 5/28/15


And where did I ever say otherwise?
---StrongAxe on 5/28/15

StrongAxe you posted: How about the 144,000 witnesses, from every Jewish tribe,.

There was only one, Judah.
When you roll a stone it rolls back on you sometimes.
In regards to as how far you want to take "irregardless" (which is a word, found in dictionary's for a century now)it was appropriate for your level of understanding. Being a double negative it negated two of your non points at the time and seen ironically, fits nicely. Interesting how insightful your are on communication rules yet fail to communicate properly so many times. Sigh, you must be human like the rest of us.

Pro_26:27 ... he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him.
---Trav on 5/28/15


Trav:

You said: You are sifting gnats again.

It was a "by the way", not my main point.

Proper word for the application I used it in.

"Irregardless" is never proper, regardless of how often George W. Bush used it. "regardless" is the proper word with the same meaning.

Sifting others...can you sift your own scriptural error in your 144,000 statement above?

No. Please enlighten me.

Judah is one of 12 brothers. Each brother recognized by their own name. They are never collectively called "Judah".

And where did I ever say otherwise?
---StrongAxe on 5/28/15


Trav but that He only came for the lost tribes is negated by the Great Commission. True He started only to first bring all Judah to him. But he sent his Apostles to the world.

See Peter and his vision. Think of Jonah.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

True the covenant is made with Israel and Judah which is why he started the work with them. But now all are invited in just as Gentiles could become Jews in the Old Testament so now they can also in the new.

Read Ephesians. Psalm 117.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/28/15


Trav
Would you please clarify about the house of Judah...
---Samuelbb7 on 5/28/15

Christ's doctrine is specific and simple to those who embrace truth.
From his one House of Israel (wife) consisting of 12 there was a division/split. The Northern House of Israel consisting of "Ten" and the Southern House of "Judah" of two.
Christ came for his own tribe, "Judah" but, they would have him not. Joh_1:11 He came unto his own,...
Refused he commanded the Apostles to seek the "Lost Sheep" Ten of the Northern House.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to...
Mat_15:24... I am not sent but unto...
Heb_8:8...a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 5/28/15


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Trav:
How about the 144,000 witnesses, from every Jewish tribe,...
---StrongAxe on 5/28/15

You are sifting gnats again. Proper word for the application I used it in.
Sifting others...can you sift your own scriptural error in your 144,000 statement above?
Judah is one of 12 brothers. Each brother recognized by their own name.
They are never collectively called "Judah".
Rev_7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev_7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Etc.
---Trav on 5/28/15


Trav:

You said: Irregardless of Wiki or heritage...the real or imposter House of Judah, is still Anti-Christ after 2015 years.

(BTW, "regardless" is a word, while "irregardless" is not.)

Revelations confirms there are Judean imposters known by GOD.

How about the 144,000 witnesses, from every Jewish tribe, also mentioned in Revelation? Are they impostors too?
---StrongAxe on 5/28/15


Trav I am missing some key points about your doctrines. You refer to points I know nothing about. Would you please clarify about the house of Judah and the foundation.

Also please of the 12 million people murdered in concentration camps by Hitler. How many were Jews?

On Christ the solid rock I stand.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/28/15


Trav:
In fact, modern genetic analyses shows commonality among genes in Sephardi, Askenazi, and middle-eastern Jews.
---StrongAxe on 5/27/15

Irregardless of Wiki or heritage...the real or imposter House of Judah, is still Anti-Christ after 2015 years.
The largest scriptural mark of all. Whether they are Babylonian converts, Sephardi, Askenazi, Esau or whoever.
Revelations confirms there are Judean imposters known by GOD.
At the least some can be aware of the fact they exist.
The blind confusion taught by most denom's today, is that the non-believing House of Judah, who is 1/12th of Israel represents both houses of Israel.
---Trav on 5/27/15


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...Wikipedia has an article on him which is not flattering.
I missed where you responded ....Gentiles becoming Jews...---Samuelbb7 on 5/26/15

You miss most things scriptural Sam.
Rev_2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Ha, I can find more about Wikipedia that is not flattering about Wikipedia. Wikipedia also has foundational information about your "Cult" doctrines.
---Trav on 5/27/15


Trav:

You said: I posted a reliable source on 21st.
The 13th Tribe, book of research done by "jewish" Arthur Koestler.


I mentioned this too, although for some mysterious reason, all the posts I made on the weekend seem to have gone into a black hole, even though the system said they were being held for approval.

His theory has been largely discredited. In fact, modern genetic analyses shows commonality among genes in Sephardi, Askenazi, and middle-eastern Jews (although this doesn't totally rule his theory out).
---StrongAxe on 5/27/15


Yes Trav and Wikipedia has an article on him which is not flattering.

Psa 117:1,2

O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

I missed where you responded to the Many Bible verses from the Old Testament about Gentiles becoming Jews and being loved and called by GOD.

Did you forget about Jonah?

I could have just missed your response.

Do I need to re-post the verses?

Jesus loves the little Children all the children of the world.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/26/15


Trav you do not quote a source.
I will give you one. From Wikipedia ...
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/15

I posted a reliable source on 21st.
The 13th Tribe, book of research done by "jewish" Arthur Koestler.
Sam, you can't be trusted to post "all" witnesses of truth in scripture.
Therefore any scriptural pointing, is for "the sheep" who will recognize the "shepherd."
Deu_10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Deu_14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth
---Trav on 5/26/15


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Trav you do not quote a source. I will give you one. From Wikipedia and you will find it many other places.

"A modern theory, that the core of Ashkenazi Jewry emerged from a hypothetical Khazarian Jewish diaspora, is now viewed with scepticism by most scholars,"

Easy to find with plenty of backup.

I first heard this from a KKK member.

In the Bible it is plain the Jews were always a mixed people for many who were not Jewish by birth joined them and became part of them in Exodus. They were allowed to join. Exodus 12:38.

The Gospel is for all nations. Matthew 28.

Question Hitler murdered 12 million people in the Concentration camps. How many were considered Jewish?
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/15


Dear Trav.
I have had to oppose your false khazars teaching before.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/15

Sam, you don't know what you uphold or oppose. You only make wonderful opportunity for posting truths people rarely hear. Some will research and save a "sheep".
It was a claiming Judean author that researched the Khazars. History is history.
Wearing rose colored glasses only makes the world red to you. Not to everyone.
Irregardless. Revelations posted is scripture.
There were imposters in Judah in Christ time, now an in the end.
Some will discern, some hopefully for you. You are a good guy. Annoyingly circular, but Good. I'd fish with you and Jerry too. (When he can bait his own hook)
---Trav on 5/22/15


Dear Trav.

I have had to oppose your false khazars teaching before. It and the other lies spread by Nazis, and Klan people is a teaching that I have had to research because of their hatred of Jews.

They lie and spread their lies based on some history and ignorance of people who do not know history.

Mat 28:19,20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Remember Peter in the vision. No man is unclean.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/15


Trav, what proof do you have you are a Jew?
---kathr4453 on 5/21/15

I have none, never made the claim. If i am fine, if not it doesn't change their specific scriptures.
Other than you, few ever mention Israel.
When either House of Israel is mentioned, a quiet avoidance is seen. Even open animosity at their scriptures. Vague scripture conflicts erupt against overwhelming scripture of Israel's.
Ironically, it's possible for many on here or out there to be "Israel", lost sheep.
GOD "scattered" them. No one looks for them. I've tested/proofed the scriptures "truth" here and in most denoms.
Eze_34:6...scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek
---Trav on 5/22/15


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Trav, what proof do you have you are a Jew? Have you taken a DNA Test? Are you 100% pure blooded Jew. And tell us what tribe you belong to?
---kathr4453 on 5/21/15


I agree with you Samuel.
---Rod4Him on 5/21/15

I don't agree with you Samuel.
Neither does "Israels" scripture witness upon witness for either of you.

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Were it possible to prove Judean by heritage, still found anti-Christ typically.

Rom_11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but...
---Trav on 5/21/15


\\Cluny, I'm sure you have heard of and read even some of the 20 some books of Avro Manhattan, who was the world leading author concerning the Vatican's POLITICS and a best seller concerning Pope Pius's politics during WWII and Hitler. \\

Have you read them? I googled his name, and the second hit was Chick tracts quoting him. He also wrote science fiction, so consider the source.

And have you read THE MYTH OF HITLER'S POPE by Rabbi David Dalin?

The massacre of Jews by the Crusaders was done DESPITE the teaching of the Catholic church and in direct defiance of the pope's orders.

The pastor of the last SBC I attended was an adulterer. Does this mean the SBC supports adultery?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/21/15


I know we are told by the Word of God to pray for the peace of Jerusalem,that tells me God wants peace for the Jews living there,therefore they must be important to God. Also aren't the Christians grafted in where the lost tribe is missing? It so sad the President has turned on Israel when America had a close relationship with them for so long and the American people don't have power anymore,their opinions mean nothing,and they can't change it,if they can I don't know how. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/21/15


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I agree with you Samuel.
---Rod4Him on 5/21/15


...Unfortunately antisemtism is again on the rise...
There is only one race.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/21/15

Anti semites? Your false poser jews are the worst anti semites of all! At war with all their neighbors.
What you can't know is, 85-90% of modern poser jews are descendants of Khazars, a people north of Turkey. Converting to Judaism in the 8th century fleeing Khazaria. 13th Tribe, book by jewish researcher Arthur Koestler.
Not just anti-christ 1/12th Israel, but, posers who aren't even Israel at all!
Honor your Bible sometime. All Israel is the race GOD loved.
Deu_10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
---Trav on 5/21/15


Without the Jewish people we would not have the Bible. They are people like the rest of us. Many are good some are bad. Others are a little of both. Many have been Great Scientist and the world is a better place for them.

The United States needs to stand with Modern Israel but not be blind to their mistakes.

Unfortunately antisemtism is again on the rise in Europe and even here in the U.S.

There is only one race. The human race. We are to love all other humans.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/21/15


THANK YOU STRONGAXE.
Perhaps you have never heard of Lutheran minister Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was hanged because he dared criticize the Nazi persecution of the Jews? Hiding Jews in your attic is one thing, but dying for them is an even greater sacrifice.--StrongAxe on 5/21/15

Yes, I have. You are correct. No love greater than one lying down his life for another- Jesus

Many Priests and Nuns in up to 100,000 at least DIED for hiding Jews in their attics.
That is the reasons the Pope had to force them to opened up their convent.
Many died freely, but some just because they obeyed the Pope.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer wasn't ordered by his LEADER.
Neither was St Edith Stein or St Maximillian who died with courage.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/21/15


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//I don't lean Catholic, I am Catholic.//

Nicole, when I write I try to address the public at large who read these blogs, trying not to be personal. People who question thoughts/topics here can research and find out from historical facts what is correct and what is slanted one way or another.

As I said before, I have lived in Israel for five years, and the perception among Jews is that "Christians-Catholic" have been antisemitic, not so with Protestants. Historically, 2000ish years, the Catholics have not been kind to Jews.

Perhaps some Jewish folk reading this can give their opinion from their point of view.

In this blog I am curious of opinions about the current Nation of Israel and the Jewish people.
---Rod4Him on 5/20/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: Tell me the names of non Catholics Leaders that helped the Jews instead of being silent.

Perhaps you have never heard of Lutheran minister Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was hanged because he dared criticize the Nazi persecution of the Jews? Hiding Jews in your attic is one thing, but dying for them is an even greater sacrifice.
---StrongAxe on 5/21/15


Cluny, I'm sure you have heard of and read even some of the 20 some books of Avro Manhattan, who was the world leading author concerning the Vatican's POLITICS and a best seller concerning Pope Pius's politics during WWII and Hitler.

Also Cluny, to sit here and play dumb not knowing about the Rhineland massacre surely has people wondering if you really don't know this part of history or just CHOOSE to believe through RCC whitewashing. Just pull up on your search engine. You can have your pick of resources. And don't say just because it's on the web it's a lie. If that doesn't meet with your approval, go to any LIBRARY and research THE RHINELAND MASSACURE. It's as well known to historians as the American Civil War.
---kathr4453 on 5/21/15


What's scary is comparing the crusades to Islam issues today. And justifying. George W. Bush made that mistake of comparison and came under criticism. People who don't know history will buy into that which I believe will be the mindset of those as we repeat history leading up to the Great Tribulation where AGAIN this last Armageddon will also take place over Jerusalem. Will the Pope and the RCC again be involved? Is the RCC again involved in the POLITICS of Israel? YES.

Seeing Pope John Paul was friends with Arafat the terrorist, AND the Jews is no different than Pope Pius being friends with Hitler, and the Jews showing duplicity. Jesus made clear that WE cannot be friends with the world and follow Christ. So how can these Popes?
---kathr4453 on 5/21/15


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\\So Nicole, were YOU there?\\

Were you there, kathr? NO.

\\Cluny, there is RCC whitewashed history and REAL HISTORY. I believe the REAL HISTORY.\\

I'm glad you read real history, kathr. This will include primary sources in languages other than English.

Can you please give these sources you have read that support what you say about the Crusades (and the Pope condemned slaughters of Jews) or Pope Pius XII an the Nazis?

Titles and authors, please.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/15


Kathr, please read if you truly want to know the truth about RCC and the Jews during WWII

'The good Samaritan, Jewish prise for Pope Pius XII'
Dimitri Cavalli. You might be suprise.

If you love Jewish people as I why are fussing. We both love the Jewish people.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/20/15


If the Jewish Community thank the Pope because they WERE THERE, and you were NOT.

---Nicole_Lacey on 5/20/15

So Nicole, were YOU there? NO. So what is your point. Jews all over the world thanked many people and many countries. You make it sound like Pope Pius saved Jews all by himself. Many CHRISTIANS not Catholic also risked their lives, and many died hiding and protecting Jews. But much more has come to light about Pope Pius since WWII after his death through his records now revealing and by his own handwriting he was anti_semitic. One day Nicole, at the great white throne judgement we will all know the facts as every thought and action and inaction will be judged by God.
---kathr4453 on 5/20/15


Rod4Him, I don't lean Catholic, I am Catholic.
History is fact and unchangable. Jews were deported from Holland and killed after the Pope's homily.

Please answer my question.
Tell me the names of non Catholics Leaders that helped the Jews instead of being silent.

No one can give me a name because there wasn't any other leader but POPE PIUS XXII.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/20/15


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\\St. Ignatius we think since so many of his writing were written after he died know one is totally sure of which he actually wrote. \\

That's a new one.

I've heard of Ps(eudo) Dionysius and Ps Macarius, but never Ps Ignatius.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/15


//When he spoke publicly the Nazis killed more Jews.//

I like to believe that. Where's your support?

I am glad to see that those who seem to lean Catholic want history rewritten or revealed that being antisemetic is\was evil.
---Rod4Him on 5/20/15


Kathr, please research the words 'Jews all over the world praising Pope Pius XXII at his FUNERAL. 1958

If the Jewish Community thank the Pope because they WERE THERE, and you were NOT.

Take Cluny's advice and inform yourself.

Again, give me another LEADER who did more and 1/8th of Pope Pius XXII
NAME, NO SPIN.

Rod4Him, No sir. Pope Pius FORCED convents to open their door after they refused his order due to fear.

When he spoke publicly the Nazis killed more Jews. So, he knew to be silent in the MEDIA ONLY to save Jewish lives
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/20/15


//...they slaughtered all the inhabitants that they could find (men, women, children, newborns).//

To be fair they killed "all," Christians also.
---Rod4Him on 5/20/15


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Cluny, there is RCC whitewashed history and REAL HISTORY. I believe the REAL HISTORY.---kathr4453 on 5/20/15

I bet you get your REAL HISTORY from the History Channel.

Samuel, you are doing the same thing President Obama is doing. Blaming the Christians for all the killings the Muslims are doing.

Even today people can only bring up Timothy McVeigh from 1994 when they want to compare Christians and Muslims as BOTH being dangerous.

Even though McVeigh stated he wasn't Christian, people still point their finger at him when asked which Christian in killing in Jesus' Name.

If they are changing the present event now, you know they are lying about the past.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/20/15


Their slogan: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed as the first Crusade passed through. Some Jewish writers refer to these events as the "first holocaust." Once the army reached Jerusalem and broke through the city walls, they slaughtered all the inhabitants that they could find (men, women, children, newborns). After locating about 6,000 Jews holed up in the synagogue, they set the building on fire, the Jews were burned alive.

Cluny, there is RCC whitewashed history and REAL HISTORY. I believe the REAL HISTORY.
---kathr4453 on 5/20/15


Cluny

I have been researching a little more about how the church treated and spoke on the Christ killers as they called the Jews.

St. Ignatius we think since so many of his writing were written after he died know one is totally sure of which he actually wrote. Spoke of his hatred of Jews and all things Jewish.

The killing of millions of Jews by the Romans was considered a just vengeance by GOD and the pagan Romans who did it were in fact for Jesus as they murdered and enslaved over a million Jews. How this was such a wonderful act of GOD.

I just bought a book on the history of Persecution of the Jews by the church.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/20/15


\\ It was the RCC wanting to take over Jerusalem, and murdering Jews all along the way.\\

Wrong again, as in everything you say about Church history, kathr.

First off, the Popes condemned the killing of Jews by the Crusaders.

Secondly, the mahometans were doing the same thing to Christians in the Holy Land that Isis and Al Quaeda are doing now.

One who tries to inform others ought to be first informed herself, right?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/15


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Pope Pious during WWII, he maintained a public neutral position concerning sides in the war. He discreetly helped the oppressed, good for him, it could have been worst. However, he could have taken a public stand against Nazi Germany.

The animosity between the Catholics and the Jews seems to stem from the Catholics belief that they "replaced" the Jews (the God killers) expressed by John Chrysostom in his 8 homilies against the Jews.
---Rod4Him on 5/20/15


Cluny, I'm sure in comparison to the Jewish organizations in the U.S. at that time. How many were there at that time? And how much influence did they have on our own government at that time? I hate to say it, but the U.S. was, ( in comparison to other countries around the world) pretty lame. We turned away and sent back a ship load, who all ended up in a concentration camp. China saved more Jews than the U.S. The article I asked Nicole to search is quite awesome. Pope Pius is on the list along with others. No one is questioning what he did do, but many do question what he didn't do and why.
---kathr4453 on 5/20/15


\\ Sorry, but the jury is still out on Pope Pious during WWII. \\

It was well known that Pius XII (to use his proper spelling) was supporting and hiding Jews during WW2. After the founding of the State of Israel, the Prime Minister said that the Vatican had saved more Jews than all the American jewish organizations.

The Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zwolle even was baptized with the name Eugenio, Pius's baptismal name.

It was only when the play THE DEPUTY, Communist propaganda, was produced that the black legend began in the '60's.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/15


"Individuals and groups assisting Jews during the Holocaust"

Nicole, please type the above in your search engine.

Sorry, but the jury is still out on Pope Pious during WWII. Let's just leave it there.
---kathr4453 on 5/19/15


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No it wasn't Cluny. It was the RCC wanting to take over Jerusalem, and murdering Jews all along the way. One of the crusades was sending children there.
---kathr4453 on 5/19/15


Trav and Kathr who isn't speaking to me can be mad all you want. Your angry doesn't change HISTORY.

Individual Priests and Nuns under direct orders from Pope Pius XXII.

Now, just shut me up by telling me the NAMES of other religious leaders who give a DIRECTED order to other people to hid Jews and make FAKE documents to escape the Nazis during 1938 to 1945 (WWII).

Bahhh is somewhat beneath you Trav. You impressed me on another blog. So, I know if there is another leader you will give me the name.
Kathr will just keep spinning and tell me she isn't going to debate me anymore after finding no name.
BTW, I believe the Concordat was signed in 1929 and for another reason.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/19/15


\\You forget the Crusades dear. \\

You forget the purpose of the Crusades, dear.

They were the Western Christian response to mahometan jihadistaism.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/15


//No other Christian, religion, Country did more for the Jews than the RCC.//

The Jews don't believe that.

I've lived in Jerusalem for over five years, and one of the first things I learned here was that "Christian" has a bad connotation to Jews because of the RCC and Eastern Othodox and Hitler/Luther. That is changing with Evangelicals supporting Zionism/Jews.

Too many stories to tell here, but one neighbor, a Jew in the apt above me, his forefathers came here because of the Inquisition. Try telling him that...just saying.
---Rod4Him on 5/19/15


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Nicole, the Pope may be typed with the gentile Pharaoh of Egypt who took Joseph in and through "that " Pharaoh Israel was blessed. But don't forget, 400 years later a new Pharoah arose and did not remember Joseph, and abused Israel.

Maybe individual Priests helped the Jews during WWII, but not all, and certainly not all Popes, before WWII or after. You forget the Crusades dear. Please don't whitewash the RCC with me. To type a "gentile" Pope with Joseph is blasphemy. The Jews will never bow down and repent to any Pope, as Joseph's brothers did to him, that was foretold Joseph in his dream RE: the 11 stars,moon, and sun...Genesis. Nor will they to your imaginary interpretation of Rev 12 of Mary being the Woman.
---kathr4453 on 5/19/15


No... religion,...did more for the Jews than the RCC.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/18/15

Bahhh. Most anything you say rcc...is easily, immediately found not true.
Vatican signed a Concordat with Nazi Germany, making it the first nation to recognize the Nazi state and giving it and Hitler much needed prestige, the Church did not condemn anti-Jewish laws in Germany, Italy, France and elsewhere,...therefore provided tacit approval of them, the Church continued to provide succor to the soldiers, policemen and SS troops who were murdering Jews by the thousands every day, rcc's never enjoined the faithful to refrain from murdering Jews. The Vatican helped spirit wanted Nazis out of Europe after the war.
---Trav on 5/19/15


//Not yet//

Based on what?...it sounds like your opinion is based on a dispensational interpretation of that verse. What happens if God does another "comma/mystery," assuming the comma exists?

In addition, that verse says, "a partial hardening." I have a friend who has his doctorate in dispensations, and he believes that what is happening is leading up to the "until."

BTW, I believe the dispensation view point is attuned to putting on rose colored glasses to look at flowers...just saying. Thanks for your opinion.
---Rod4Him on 5/19/15


//is what is happening now a start of those prophecies?//
Not yet (Rom 11:25)
---michael_e on 5/18/15


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Kathr, Pope is in the line of Peter has vicar of Christ, since he has the keys to the Kingdom.
Both Jesus and Joesph were sold for silver by his own kins man both. Both stripped and taken away for there home. Gentile Egypt when Jesus was child.

Nevertheless, the brothers needed Joesph to save them from dying of hunger.
St. John XXII knew that we SAVE approx 2 millions Jews during WWII. Hidding them in our convents and Priest homes.
Taught them Christian faith so when tested by the Nazis they would pass. Also we produce fake Baptism cert.

No other Christian, religion, Country did more for the Jews than the RCC.-JEWISH statements at Pope Pius XII
Thats why the Pope said I am Joesph whom you don't recognize.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/18/15


I think God will save them all.
---learner2 on 5/16/15

Of both houses it appears...

Eze_39:25 ...and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name,
Eze 37:16 ...for all the house of Israel his companions:
Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, and they shall become one in thine hand.
Eze 37:22 I will make them one nation ...they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Rom_11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,...
---Trav on 5/18/15


I heard St. Pope John XXIII told the leader of Israel at the time, "I am Joseph your brother whom you do not recognize."
Telling Israel that we Christians are here to help them.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/17/15

Joseph is a TYPE OF CHRIST, where his own brethren ..the Jews, rejected and killed. For the POPE to claim he is Joseph is borderline blasphemy. When Israel sees Jesus return, and sees the nail prints in His hands, they will morn, recognizing HIM. Zechariah 12-14. Just as Joseph was rejected and left for dead by His brothers, who we see recognized Joseph, and mourned.
---kathr4453 on 5/18/15


My personal opinion is that, of all other religions in the world, we who are Christians are closer to Jews than we are to any 'religious' group on the earth. However, they are unsaved. Jesus came to save them and they need to hear the message that Christians have to offer for them to be saved. If they die unsaved they will not dwell for eternity with their Creator. God has laid upon us the duty/privilege of leading them to the Lord.

I don't, personally, know any Jews at all, although there is a synagogue about 8 miles away. Your question prompts me to think and pray about them more and to enlarge my knowledge of how 'they' see God. I've been rather lazy in my study of them and must rectify that.
---Rita_H on 5/18/15


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Israel is a fighter and will fight to the end.
God is always concerned about His first Born and it's land promised to Israel.

I heard St. Pope John XXIII told the leader of Israel at the time, "I am Joseph your brother whom you do not recognize."
Telling Israel that we Christians are here to help them.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/17/15


The current state of Israel is worsening every day. More and more countries, including the United States, will rise up against Israel and divide it. A second "holocaust" is comming not only of jews, but also of christians. Satan has only a short time left and is wreaking havoc thoughout the world as terror has gripped all four corners.

Israel becoming a state in 1948 is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Therefore, God still has his mind set on the chosen people.

All Israel shall be saved: as it is written, though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved who believe in Jesus.
---Steveng on 5/17/15


Happy Jerusalem Day from Jerusalem.

//God will reestablish his purpose with Israel,fulfilling the prophecies concerning the nation God created..//

Is what is happening now a start of those prophecies?

BTW, God has always been a God of Grace and Mercy.

//I do believe Cluny has a point, but there are two issues here. One, the LAND, and one the people.//

I agree. However, is God presently dealing with Jews, and is God still presently concerned with the land?
---Rod4Him on 5/17/15


The way to reconcile specific prophesies given to and about Israel with the period of prophetic silence is to recognize the period of grace revealed to Paul (Gal 1:11-12, Titus 1:3).
According to prophecy, salvation was coming from the nation to whom salvation was given (John 4:22, Isaiah 46:13).
Today, salvation is offered to all men through Jesus Christ.
God has not given up Israel, but has counted them in unbelief so he could have mercy upon all, offering free justification in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 3:24).
In the future,(Rom 11:25) God will reestablish his purpose with Israel,fulfilling the prophecies concerning the nation God created, but not until his purpose in the mystery church is complete.
---michael_e on 5/16/15


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I do believe Cluny has a point, but there are two issues here. One, the LAND, and one the people. Isaiah 14 we see God has promised
to bring them back to the Land, and I believe we are seeing this happening in our lifetime. We also know through prophecy, Zechariah 12-14, really bad stuff will happen in this part of the world. And it does not say Learner2 that God is goi g to save ALL OF THEM. actually only 1/3 of them. This is the ONLY LAND in the whole world that belongs exclusively to God, for a purpose, for a reason, where Christ Himself will reign for 1000 years. But before that it will get UGLY. DO NOT BE THE ONES...NATIONS DESCRIBED IN ZECHARIAH 12.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/15


The modern state of Israel is full of Jews who, if they lived anywhere else, would be called "lost."

However some Christians, especially dispensationalist ones, think that residence on that particular patch of real estate gives them special spiritual standing with God.

No dice.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/16/15


I think God will save them all.
---learner2 on 5/16/15


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