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Is Sound Doctrine Important

Got Doctrine?
Is sound Dogma important, and if so - why?
Titus 1:9-11, chapter 2, James 3:13-18 vs. Colossians 2:20-23, 1Timothy 4:1-2, 2Timothy 4:3-4.

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Jesus answered them and said "My doctrine is not mine but His that sent me. If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it is of God or whether I speak of myself. He who speaks of himself seeks his own glory, but he who seeks His glory who sent him, the same is true and no unrighteousness is in him. Did not Moses give you the law and yet none of you keep it? Why do you go about to kill me?" John 7:16-19.

And after Paul has preached his gospel of grace, Jesus does not change His doctrine at all. Rev. 12:17, Rev. 14:12. Nor does His beloved apostle, 2nd John 8-11, 1st John 5:2-5.
---barb on 6/15/15


2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But we must have sound doctrine that applies in this dispensation. The doctrine given to Noah (Gen 6) would be unsound doctrine for us to follow today.
Likewise good doctrine of the law (Prov 4:2) would be unsound doctrine for us in the dispensation of Grace, though it was good doctrine in the dispensation of the Law.
There are those who deceive us with unsound doctrine that would place us back under the bondage of the law. Paul warns Timothy to beware of these teachers of the law (1 Tim 1:3)
Being entrusted with the dispensation of the Grace of God Paul teaches (Titus 1:9)
---michael_e on 6/14/15



Aservant, Jesus fulfilled the law by keeping it . . .

. . . why are we still here in this cesspool of sin . . .
---barb on 6/14/15


Jesus did not obey commandments to fulfill the Law. He LOVED the world to FULFILL the Law.

Rom 13:8 . . . he that LOVEth another hath FULFILLed the law.

Rom 13:10 . . . LOVE is the FULFILLing of the law.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is FULFILLed in one word, even in this, Thou shalt LOVE . . .


We're in the cesspool because we do not love. Love pours out. Men prime the pump.
---aservant on 6/15/15


Aservant, Jesus fulfilled the law by keeping it and we need to do the same. We also need to practice and abide in the words of God's Son so that we can learn the way of righteousness. 1st John 3:7.

If love is all we need, then why are we still here in this cesspool of sin going around and around? God needs a Kingdom on earth and He does not have one because everyone is so full of the words of Paul that they cannot hear the Word of God. If love, grace and faith could fill God's Kingdom up then God would have sent His Son back to reap and we would be out of here by now. Matt 6:33, John 18:36-37.
---barb on 6/14/15


Both are quoting Moses.

Deuteronomy 6:5 10:12 11:13

Deuternomy 30:6
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself, for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Love leads to obeying all of GOD's Commandments. read 1John.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/14/15




In Romans 13:8-10 Paul writes that the whole law is fulfilled by one commandment.
Jesus did not teach that in Matt 22:35-40 . . . I was showing the difference between Paul's writings and the teachings of Jesus.

. . . Our job is to keep the laws . . .
---barb on 6/13/15


There is no difference in the messages of our Master and Apostle Paul.

Rom 13:8 love another
Mt 22:37 love God
Mt 22:39 love neighbors

Both showed the Law is about loving others. Not loving another breaks the Law. Loving another (even one who is unlovable, like an enemy) fulfills the Law.

Jesus fulfilled every jot, every tittle by loving the world.
---aservant on 6/13/15


-3-

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Faith = imputed righteousness = innocent = God seeing/counting you as one who perfectly obeyed the Law.

God providing a Savior so that we could be imputed as though we perfectly obeyed the Law establishes the importance of the Law.
---aservant on 6/13/15


Barb in Romans 13 Paul is stressing the second great commandment. Love thy Neighbor. Romans 3:31 shows both are still in effect. People understand the law does not save us. We are saved by Grace, aservent. But we are saved to do right not live in sin. Romans 6.

Cluny but we are not left dung. We become new, born again babies in Jesus. We then are to grow in Christ.

It is called Sanctification. Some refer to it as Saintification. We become the Saints we are supposed to be.

The Law simply defines sin. Not save us.

On Christ the solid rock I stand.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/13/15


-2-

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified (innocent) in his sight . . .

Obeying the Law does not make one innocent. Faith = God (the Judge) seeing/counting you innocent.


Rom 3:28 . . . a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Faith, not obeying the Law = being innocent. Faith is a Spiritual action. Obedience is a flesh action -- can never be innocent.
---aservant on 6/13/15


David, I appreciate your kind words but instead of pointing directly to Jesus, Paul told us to follow him because he follows/imitates Jesus. Does that seem ok to you? It doesn't to me.

I would prefer the university professor to teach me if he indeed has the same knowledge and understanding that was taught by God's Son but Jesus chose the Holy Spirit to teach me thru His eyewitness disciples and for that I am eternally grateful.
---barb on 6/13/15




Cluny, good answer "all our nastiness is left untouched".

Jesus' righteousness is not imputed to cover up our filth. Matt 23:25-28, Rev. 22:11-14.
---barb on 6/13/15


Barb
Believe me, I understand your frustrations about Paul, but Paul is not the problem. It's those who make Paul the foundation of their faith, and not the Gospel of Christ.

Paul defers to the Lords Gospel many times in his letters, and he even warns men against becoming a follower of Paul (1 Corinthians 1 :12-15).

Why is Paul hard to understand? It's simply because he was an educated man, and taught accordingly.

If a Yale Law Professor and a Janitor had the same knowledge on a particular subject, and they tried to teach it to you, which one would most folks best understand?
The Janitor.
Why?
Because he speaks a simple language, a language everyone can understand.
---David on 6/13/15


Samuel, sorry if I didn't make my point clear to you. I'll try again. Both sides of the argument to keep the commandments or not can be proven thru Paul's writings and the evidence for that is clearly seen everyday.

In Romans 13:8-10 Paul writes that the whole law is fulfilled by one commandment.
Jesus did not teach that in Matt 22:35-40 where He stated that ALL the law and the prophets hang from two commandments. Here I was showing the difference between Paul's writings and the teachings of Jesus.

God established the commandments a long time ago. Our job is to keep the laws that He instituted.

---barb on 6/13/15


\\ When we true in Christ we are Born again and saved by the imputed righteousness of JESUS who died for us. \\

Imputed righteousness simply means that all our nastiness is left untouched.

In Luther's delicate phrase, a pile of dung is covered with snow. However, he neglected to say that the dung remains dung.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/15


When we true in Christ we are Born again and saved by the imputed righteousness of JESUS who died for us.

But we then die to self and live to Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. Imparted Righteousness. Romans 6.

At last when Jesus comes we are glorified and accepted into Heaven. Glorification.

Three steps.

All hail the power of Jesus name let angels prostrate fall.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/12/15


-1-

Seems to me that Paul talks in circles and has no knowledge in regard to the teaching of God's Son.
---barb on 6/12/15


Rom 4:20 . . . but was strong in faith, giving glory to God
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Faith in God's promise = God seeing/counting you as one who perfectly obeyed the Law = imputed obedience make you righteous in God's court.
---aservant on 6/12/15


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Barb you didn't explain. You made statement about Paul and asked questions.

ICorithians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

What is important according to Paul is to keep GOD's Commandments.

Rom 13:9,10
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul says love causes us to keep the Ten Commandments. See verse 8.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/12/15


Samuel, please allow me to have a go at Romans 3:31. The first thing I notice is that Paul does not say keep the commandments of God or abide in the teachings of Jesus Christ, instead he said to establish the law. Hasn't God already established the law? Isn't it our job to keep the law that God instituted?

So Paul says to establish the law. What law? The law that he said was fulfilled by one law in Rom 13:8? What about the first four commandments and the one that Jesus called the greatest? Seems to me that Paul talks in circles and has no knowledge in regard to the teaching of God's Son.
---barb on 6/12/15


In "time past"(Matt-John) was the earthly ministry of Christ to the nation of Israel. In Acts Israel falls and salvation goes to the Gentiles through Paul. "But now" (Rom-Phil) provide the doctrine for the present dispensation of grace. The "middle wall of partition" is down, Jew and Gentile equal. Paul's writings alone give us the doctrine, position, walk and destny, for todays church, the boC
---michael_e on 6/12/15


Thank you for the correction Cluny.

Some scriptures are hard to explain. But I only remember one person every trying to explain
Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Which as you point out is from Paul. I have answered many who say the laws is done away with based on Paul. I just do not get many who try to answer my point.

Trav I have tried to answer your scriptures. I don't remember you explaining why and on what basis by answers were incorrect.

On Christ the Solid Rock I stand all other ground is shifting sand.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/12/15


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I went humbly as a 40 year old child to preacher/teachers with scriptures that didn't unify with todays denom doctrines.
Scriptures that made them angry--Trav


Trav
Well brother, you are in good company. How many times did they want to kill Jesus, just because he asked them a scripture based question? He used these questions, to humble those who saw themselves as wise?

They thought Jesus did it to make fun of them, but in reality, he did it to open their closed minds. You can not teach anyone, who believes they are smarter than you are. But if you can open their minds, then they can be taught.

Seminaries are full of men with titles. Why do men need titles?
It's to say," I'm smarter than you are."
---David on 6/12/15


\\If a person cannot explain easily what Scripture means then they are in trouble. \\

But not all Scriptures can be easily explained.

St. Peter said there are some things in the writings of St. Paul that are difficult to understand.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/11/15


Glenn
But who gets to decides on what's, "Good doctrine"? Is it God, or is it a seminary?
---David on 6/11/15

Good point David. I call it "cemetary now instead of seminary.
I went humbly as a 40 year old child to preacher/teachers with scriptures that didn't unify with todays denom doctrines.
Scriptures that made them angry. Angry? Why would scripture make a preacher teacher angry? Because they had no answer to the scriptures.
Dumping these imposters and going to the "Only" master and teacher Christ and all his witnesses gave the answers.
Oh yes...other men pointed who "trav-elled" these verses before me.
Yes these witnesses held up... by the unified thousands.
---Trav on 6/11/15


Good doctrine is a type of vaccination against error --Glenn on 6/10/15

Glenn
But who gets to decides on what's, "Good doctrine"? Is it God, or is it a seminary?

Does school really make a man intelligent? Where did man come from, according to our Elementary schools? Do they teach man came from Adam and Eve? No, and this is elementary school, the very foundation of their education.

Now I ask you, how does a child become intelligent, when their education is founded on such ignorance?
---David on 6/11/15


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Trav, Goy and Ethnos - Gentilis was used...
---Glenn on 6/10/15

Partially correct. The North House of Israel, "put away", "divorced" put them in the "ethnos" category. These "ten" divorced were not sharing the "commonwealth" of a United 12 (13) tribed Israel. Who for the most part are the N.T. "ethnos", and "ethnos" spoken of by Paul. Paul's context clarifies saying,
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness "from Jacob":
Rom 11:27 For this is my "covenant unto them", when I shall take away "their sins".
---Trav on 6/11/15


Got Doctrine?
Is sound Dogma important, and if so - why?
Titus 1:9-11, chapter 2, James 3:13-18 vs. Colossians 2:20-23, 1Timothy 4:1-2, 2Timothy 4:3-4.

---Glenn on 5/21/15


As Creator and Savior, God has a right to expect certain behaviors from those He has saved from Hell. Because He is perfect, He wants His people to reflect Himself in Truth, Holiness, Love, Meekness, and Honor.

We who are called, elected, and chosen by God are servants to Him and "sacrifice" our human pleasures to conform our lives to do what pleases Him. We have been fashioned for this purpose, saved and awarded eternity in paradise as His Bride.
---aservant on 6/10/15


Trav 6/1, David 6/10, Samuelbb7 6/10.
Good doctrine is a type of vaccination against error *.
Trav, Goy and Ethnos - Gentilis was used when a verse referred to non Jews, and its employment in Vetus Latina precedes its misuse by the R.C.. Matthew 23:24.
David, please read the last four lines of my comment on 5/26. The writers of the Bible were educated. Though a few were also cross trained in the educational systems of other cultures.
Samuelbb7, Romans 3:31 is refering to the moral law, please see verses 20-21, 4:13-16, Galatians 2:21.
*Matthew 7:15-27, John 7:16-18, Act 17:11-12, Ephesians 2:20-22, 6:10-17, 2Timothy 3:16-17, 4:2, 2Peter 1:20-3:18.
---Glenn on 6/10/15


True Rita.

If a person cannot explain easily what Scripture means then they are in trouble.

One scripture I have posted many times is Roman 3:31. Yet many never try to tell me what it means. They ignore the scripture since it does not support their doctrine.

All scripture on a topic must be compared. You cannot just pick the ones you like.

Sadly today in many schools Ministers are taught the Bible is a man made book and not the word of GOD.

Here some proclaim their doctrines but do not back it up with scripture.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/10/15


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\\Man's own interpretations leave God out of it. Some denominations have their own agendas unfortunately.\\

Rita, when I was a Baptist (before I got saved), I was taught that every believer had the right to interpret Scripture for himself.

Of course, woe betide you if your interpretation was different from the majority of those around you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/10/15


David it all depends on where those who are teaching others acquired what they now 'know' and are passing on. Unless all theological colleges and bible schools adhere strictly to the teachings of the bible then some will come away with their qualifications/diplomas unfit to teach the bible correctly themselves and so the mistakes continue to be perpetuated.

There is too much "Ah well it might say that but it really means..........." Man's own interpretations leave God out of it. Some denominations have their own agendas unfortunately.
---Rita_H on 6/10/15


Where do men who go to preacher schools get their teachings? Do they come from God, or do they come from men?
---David on 6/10/15

Thousands of conflicting denominations verify what you posted. Men are wrong.
Christ even tells us to call no man "master or "father" yet all denominations want us to submit to their authority/doctrines to be a member.
Ha. I'm free of all "mans" denoms...
I thank YAHWEH for freeing me and any other.
Joh_13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

When preachers start wearing "terry cloth" neck ties and washing feet at the door they might be free themselves.
---Trav on 6/10/15


The anti-intellectualism boasted of here is really an excuse for these people's lack of education.-Marc on 5/23/15

Mark
This is why Jesus was given twelve uneducated men to spread his Gospel. It was so folks would know, the wise teachings which came from his disciples, came from God and not from men.

Where do men who go to preacher schools get their teachings? Do they come from God, or do they come from men?
If they come from God, who is one, why are there so many doctrines in opposition to each other?

Why was Paul, an educated man, chosen? It was for men like you, who believe intelligence only comes from men, who are educated by men.
---David on 6/10/15


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Gen 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands, every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
---micha9344 on 5/29/15

If you notice here in the same chapter a similar writing with a different spin on translating your word.

Gen 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these
were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Another example: Gen 25:23....Two "nations"(gentiles/goy/troop animals/flight of locusts: - heathen, people)...are in thy womb.
Gentile is just an unfortunate distraction from truth. All confusion given by jeromes latin vulgate / r.c.c.
---Trav on 6/1/15


What have you been smoking?
---Monk_Brendan on 5/30/15

Rolling and Smoking monks.
Goy is Hebrew. Goyim is Yiddish Hebrew.
Gentile is Latin. Origin, Latin Vulgate translation. In R.C.C. context it meant one who is not of Rome. Rome who thought she was Israel. Universalist Rome who accepts all races "buying" their citizenship. Universal pontiff. Originator of modern universalism. Most christians today don't even realize they embrace a mistranslated Roman doctrine.
Gen means a nation, and is equal to "ethnos", "gen-tilis" means of or belonging to other nations.
Gowy/goi/goy/goyim is Old Testament. Sometimes used of Israel. One understanding is being of the "same".
---Trav on 6/1/15


Jerry, please don't make up stuff.
Believe the Dogma or else?
Please finish the sentence.
What is the else?
Does the Swiss Guards come knocking at your door?

What is the uses of Doctrine if you don't make it a Dogma?
Then anyone can make up doctrine.

Dogma means the faithful believes because they trust Jesus' Words that He will not let the evil one mislead His Bride the Church.

Do you trust Jesus to care for His Bride?

When your mother told you to wash your hands before dinner it was because she knows you had germs on them.
She didn't what the germs going into your body.
You can trust and obey her because she wants the best for you.

No NEGATIVITY in either requests.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/31/15


I agree that sound doctrine is essential, but "dogma" is another matter. Dogma has a negative connotation that one must believe or else. That is Satan's form of government - not God's. (It is also Islam's.) God, on the other hand, allows us to believe or not - to sin or not - of our own free will. The consequences of our choices are another matter.


---jerry6593 on 5/31/15


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Trav said, "The word is a "latin" word. We'll start from there, since the word is not an original."

What have you been smoking? Goyim is a Yiddish word, and Yiddish is a bastardized form of German, which is a totally different language, with no roots in Latin at all.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 5/30/15


The "original" use of "Gentiles" was "Goyim" ...
---micha9344 on 5/29/15

I'll discuss this with you as much as you like next week.
The word is a "latin" word. We'll start from there, since the word is not an original.
Keeping in mind that for New Testament purposes, that North Israel being put away/ divorced among the "nations" of the world. At the same time being a race, "ethnos" of its own. GOD knows where all "Ten" of this house is, even if no others look for her.
Amo_9:9 For, lo, I will command, I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
---Trav on 5/29/15


/Gentiles, original usage meaning is "ethnos" referring to the North House of Israel.\-Trav on 5/28/15
Gen 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands, every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
-The "original" use of "Gentiles" was "Goyim" referring to the sons of Japheth, who inhabited the Mediterranean area.
In the NT, Greek and Gentile were used interchangeably, being either "Hellen" or "Ethnos."
Greece is part of the nations of Japheth.
---micha9344 on 5/29/15


I too have much peace accepting the words of Jesus and the Prophets.
Matthew 28...
---Samuelbb7 on 5/29/15

If you had peace you wouldn't search for cracks and angles. You must constantly subvert 100 scriptures to present one questionably vague.
Matt 28 doesn't support your universal doctrine.
Apostles won't/don't blatantly disobey GOD or Christ. Yet by light of scripture you do.
For instance.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:...
Matt 28:20...shows you immediately changing, and not observing Christ commands as per, Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
---Trav on 5/29/15


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I too have much peace accepting the words of Jesus and the Prophets.

Matthew 28. The Great Commission. Psalm 117,67 All Nations. Isiah 2:2

Haggai 2:7
And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

GOD bless and keep you.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/29/15


... New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah as is written in Hebrews and Isaiah.
Where I disagree is that Gentiles are not accepted into the Covenant.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/28/15

It is Hebrews and Jeremiah. You disagree with GOD's spokepersons not me.
Gentiles, original usage meaning is "ethnos" referring to the North House of Israel. The Lost Sheep of Matt 10:6 and 15:24. They are who is spoken of in the Covenant.
There is no reward for trying to re-create another gate.
You are looking for an angle not the sheep.
I have much peace, just accepting what GOD says through his spokespersons. Who happen to be his prophets and Son.
---Trav on 5/28/15


Yes Trav she wrote about a dream she had about her dead husband who she missed. It is part of her Biography and not inspired writing.

I too have stated many times and it is a basic doctrine of our church that the New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah as is written in Hebrews and Isaiah.

Where I disagree is that Gentiles are not accepted into the Covenant.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/28/15


Greetings,

This is a very good question.

Sound Doctrine is paramount in order to live as a Christian for these reasons:

1. Sound Doctrine defines truth from error and right from wrong.

2. Sound Doctrine creates the environment to learn and know the truth.

3. Sound Doctrine provides the foundation in defending the truth.

4. Sound Doctrine establishes identity.

5. Sound Doctrine makes firm our purpose including the past, the present, and the future.
---John9346 on 5/27/15


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Oops, the verse I meant to quote was from Matt 15 not John 15.
---barb on 5/27/15


Glenn, some of the disciples could read and write but I suspect few of them, if any, had the equivalent of two years of university. Jesus had to start from scratch and teach them all over again because the Scribes and the Pharisees were not teaching truth. John 15:1-9. Jesus called the teachers of Israel blind guides, broods of vipers etc. Please read Matt 23.
---barb on 5/27/15


Glenn, true, but with the help of the Holy Spirit. Paul said he was not taught this by man, but by revelation of the Holy Spirit.

The problem with head knowledge without the enlightening of the Holy Spirit is just words.
---kathr4453 on 5/27/15


\\...Doctrine of Seventh day Adventist ...\\
What do you bring from Obadiah or Esther to prove your SDA doctrines?
---Cluny on 5/27/15

e.g. white is his prophetess, conversing with her dead husband and others. (Retirement Years" p. 161 - 163.)
She seen Angels with Gold Cards to get in an out of Heavens Gates.
All verifiable by word search and much more on the Whiteestate site.
Unlike today in Sam's cult she did write of the "New Covenant to Israel around 200 times. Noticed when I researched her writings. Something Sam chokes on putting these scriptures into print.
Heb_8:8 ...I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 5/27/15


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\\Also many with the Apostolic
churches. \\

Samuel, by "Apostolic Churches" do you mean the pre-reformation churches that were started by the Apostles?

Or do you mean those who hold to the heresy of Sabellian Modalism, aka Oneness?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/27/15


\\Trav I have and continue to produce Evidence for the Doctrine of the Seventh day Adventist church from the entire Bible. \\

What do you bring from Obadiah or Esther to prove your SDA doctrines?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/27/15


Doctrine is important. But without a relation with Jesus it is just doctrine. Not part of a living relationship.

Trav I have and continue to produce Evidence for the Doctrine of the Seventh day Adventist church from the entire Bible.

But we enjoy the Majority of our Doctrines with Most Protestant churches. Also many with the Apostolic
churches.

Paul did teach in Accordance with all Scrptures unless you take his words out of context.

Jesus loves all the Children of the World.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/26/15


learner2 5/21..., kathr4453, barb 5/24:
learner2: 2Timothy 2:19, Hebrews 5:11-14, 6:1-2 seven principles, 1Peter 2:1-3.
kathr: In Philippians 3:7-8, The Apostle was referring to his lineage, his previous false Phariseeism (works righteousness), and perhaps all that he lost when he became a Believer. Paul though relied on his past theological training in order to write Romans and Hebrews.
barb: Please read Luke 6:39-40 as it concerns the roll(s) of teacher and student. Also, Jewish lads were obligated to memorize, read, copy from, and understand at minimum the Torah. The disciples had at least the equivalence of a two year university degree.
---Glenn on 5/26/15


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Which people here claim to have sound doctrine?
---learner2 on 5/22/15

All denominations say theirs is sound.
Are they sound with few scriptural witnesses?
Sound doctrine today is found in one safe place. Christ. It is his to give, and teach.
From Genesis to Revelations there are thousands of witnesses, that create a foundation and build ones "personal" internal and external structure.
If one starts with the New Covenant, Heb 8:8, witnesses compound back to Genesis or forward to Revelations.
Who then could/would possibly go against the prophets?
Who would go against Christ?
Those who cannot produce "all" O.T. or N.T. witnesses supporting one another...in their doctrines.
---Trav on 5/26/15


I became a Christian on the day that I understood, and accepted that Jesus died for ME personally and that the purpose of that was so that I would not be punished for my sins because HE has paid the price for me. It was HIS gift to ME and I thanked Him for doing that. From that point it was an ongoing learning process, through scripture reading, confession, listening to preachers and a whole lot more. I have learnt as much from lay-preachers as I have from ordained clergy. There are born-again Christians AND UNSAVED PEOPLE in our pulpits. Some will be unaware of the difference. Many people have been saved after listening to the testimony of a friend, neighbour, fellow passenger etc. The sound doctrine comes slowly, later.
---Rita_H on 5/26/15


A quick, emotional trip up to the altar is not enough! In order to Love God, you have to know Him to some extent. Salvation is a life-long process, called metanoia, which is a lifetime turning away from sin, and a constant cooperation with God, learning His will for your life.

With that in mind, the quick trip to the altar is not salvific if it is not backed up by sound doctrine in the first place.

When I got "saved," I had learned a lot of doctrine from my years in Catholic School. It was not a quick decision. It has been a life long cooperation and love affair with God.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 5/25/15


Sound doctrine is very important. Is it possible for anyone to be more intelligent than the Creator God who created him? God sent His Son into the world and gave Him all the dogma that men need to know. John 7:17-19, John 12:46-50.

God was not looking for intelligence when He sent His Son but for people with integrity and enough oil from the Holy Spirit to recognize and understand His words. John 10:25-30. He didn't find those people among the highly intelligent but chose mostly fishermen, some who could neither read nor write. Jesus chose His disciples while He was on earth and He ordained them to bring forth fruit. John 15:14-27. He prayed for those of us who would believe on Him thru the words of His disciples. John 17:20-26.
---barb on 5/24/15


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Marc, however Paul considered all of that DUNG for the excellency of KNOWING CHRIST. Philippians 3 is a must read. All that study was before his conversion. Anyone can have head knowledge. But head knowledge is not the same as the Knowledge and wisdom that is found IN CHRIST ALONE, who is made unto US wisdom and knowledge. THIS wisdom and knowledge is given only to those IN CHRIST, and comes directly from the HEAD who is Christ.
---kathr4453 on 5/24/15


The disparagement of academic study runs contrary to Paul's upholding of it. Paul stated, "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, and I was brought up and educated here in Jerusalem under Gamaliel."

Tarsus was an intellectual capital. It had universities and it was clear that Paul had been exposed to its teachings. After all, he freely quoted Aratus and Epimenides, even humorously embedding the latter's paradox into his Epistle to Titus (see 1:12).

The anti-intellectualism boasted of here is really an excuse for these people's lack of education.

Dogma is good, OK!
---Marc on 5/23/15


"Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you." (1 Timothy 4:16)

"Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily." (Colossians 1:28-29)

So, yes we need to speak and hear the things which can save us and others, like Paul means with Timothy.

And the purpose of sound doctrine is that every one of us may be presented "perfect in Christ Jesus", and we do this how God's working has us doing this.
---Bill on 5/23/15


Trav you don't fool me. I know you wouldn't send your kids to learn history from a 25 years old drop out smoking pot and playing video games all day in his parent's basement.

Nor would you let a hospital hire people without nurse's degrees to give you medication.

So if you demand some type of education for simple things why not for your soul?

Are you saying you think more of your body and mind than your SOUL?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/23/15


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That is all very well, but sound doctrine is the result of salvation, not its cause.
---learner2 on 5/23/15


It's probably worth pointing out that in a Christian context, dogma means revealed truth.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/23/15


Without sound doctrine Christianity is just another religious practice with empty tradition, and a meaningless list of rules. This is how most view it today.
On a foundation of sound doctrine Christianity is a life changing force steeped in truth. Paul calls it the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16). It is the preaching of Jesus Christ not motivational jargon mixed with a few clean jokes.
The Bible describes this condition as childlike being tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine (Eph 4:14).
A good place to start is 2 Tim 2:15. When Christianity progresses it will be a result of the sound doctrine produced by studying the Bible rightly divided.
---michael_e on 5/22/15


Is it our adherence to sound doctrine that saves us? That sounds like salvation by intellectual works.
---learner2 on 5/22/15


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...so I want those in the Church to know Theology to enrich my Soul.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/22/15

Sounds logical. Is logical in medicine.
But, isn't scripturally. Used to think similar. Going to those with degrees educated me. Educated me that all they had learned was the doctrine of the denom they honored. Most never even heard of the scriptures I was asking them humbly about.
Prophets didn't have degrees.
Apostles didn't have degrees. (Maybe one was educated, he tangles everyone up)
There is only one teacher. He brings all the proof. Even a dumb "Sheep" understands abundant food (witnesses) when he sees.

Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
---Trav on 5/22/15


Which people here claim to have sound doctrine?
---learner2 on 5/22/15


Dogmas are needed because there are so many people claiming to interpret the Bible in one fashion or another.
These people can't read Greek, Hebrew, Latin or even understand the English language.
But they run around saying the Holy Spirit explained the Scriptures to them so they are correct.

No, thank you.
Just as I want my Medical Doctor to have a degree in Medicine to prescribe medicine for my body, so I want those in the Church to know Theology to enrich my Soul.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/22/15


Sound doctrine/beliefs are important, but the condition of your heart and mind is what will determine whether you will have ETERNAL LIFE. What Jesus accomplished on the cross was DONE and finished 2,000 years ago (as we measure TIME, but this is no longer the age of TIME).

Jesus (the Prince of Peace from Isaiah 9:18) also brought us the "Wonderful Counselor"/Holy Spirit.

Many worshipers (including the Jews) have only accepted the "Prince of Peace" into their heart (but not GENUINELY into their mind because they don't LIVE according to THE DIVINE SPIRIT.).
---faithforfaith on 5/22/15


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So true Glenn.

Steveng Love in action is more important than sound doctrine. But it does often originate in sound doctrine. But some who don't have all their doctrine together can still walk in love.

It is important. For false doctrine is used to trick Christians. But Loving GOD and loving humans in words and actions is the greatest commandments.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/15


Yes, we need the right doctrine. But it is not sound unless we are living the love meaning of it.

For example, God is unconditionally loving and willing to forgive us of anything and everything. But this is our example, required of us, how our Father desires us to also love and forgive. So, plenty of doctrine is for our example of how to become, ourselves >

"Therefore be imitators of God as dear children." (Ephesians 5:1)

God is longsuffering with us and sinners, but this also is our example >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
---Bill on 5/22/15


Steveng is on the right track. Sound Dogma has to do primarily with right behavior.
---Rod4Him on 5/22/15


Yes, because II Thes and Rev say you can believe a lie and be damned.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/22/15


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learner2: It means uncorrupt instruction as compared to 2Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies...
Steveng: How would you then know what the loving thing to do is?
---Glenn on 5/21/15


The only sound doctrine is LOVE (as in the verb form). Unfortunately, today's christians don't know how to use it - save a few.
---Steveng on 5/21/15


What is Sound Doctrine?
---learner2 on 5/21/15


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