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What Is The Trinity

Why are some Christians Trinity deniers?

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 ---jerry6593 on 5/29/15
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Darlene_1:

I was speaking specifically of Oneness Pentecostals (e.g. the United Pentecostal Church), as I've had a little bit of experience with those kinds of groups in the past. If you ever see any posts by lawrence on any of these blogs, he seems like a broken-record extremist limit of this position, claiming that trinitarian belief comes from the pit of hell (i.e. he identifies it with the harlot Babylon in Revelation). Most Oneness Pentecostals I have met are nowhere near that extreme, but they do seem to insist Trinitarian belief is incorrect.

There are, of course, other permutations of beliefs held by other groups (e.g. the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but that Jesus isn't.)
---StrongAxe on 6/11/15


You obviously do not "get it"
Jesus actually died (no pretense here) His Father resurrected Him.
If they are one and the same person (trinity) God/Christ would have died !

---1st_cliff on 6/11/15



Jn 10:18(CEV) No one takes my life from me. I give it up willingly! I have the power to give it up and the power to receive it back again, just as my Father commanded me to do.

Jn 2:19 . . . Destroy this temple, and in three days I (Jesus) will raise it up. .

Father commanded Jesus to resurrect Himself. Jesus does resurrection - Jn 6:44.
---aservant on 6/12/15


PART 2

Cliff,

"Jesus realising everything was now completed said (fulfilling the saying of scripture), "I am thirsty." There was a bowl of sour wine standing there. So they soaked a sponge in the wine, put it on a spear, and pushed it up towards his mouth. When Jesus had taken it, he cried, "It is finished!" His head fell forward, and he died. (John 19:28ff)
---Marc on 6/12/15


Has anyone seen Lawrence? I open a blog on his favorite subject (to keep him from hijacking others), and he doesn't even show. How rude!

But, as irony would have it, this one has been hijacked for the "did Christ really die" discussion.


Cliff: Consider that if Christ did not die (really and completely - the second death), then the wages for our sins are not paid, and we are without hope of salvation. How can such doctrine be compatible with Christianity?



---jerry6593 on 6/12/15


That all that was needed to free us from Adamic sin is/was 175 lbs of flesh ???
You obviously do not "get it"
Jesus actually died (no pretense here) His Father resurrected Him.
If they are one and the same person (trinity) God/Christ would have died !

Eccl.9.5 "the dead know nothing."
Psl.146.4 "On that very day his thought do perish"

So, at what point in time did Jesus' thoughts perish and He knew nothing ???
---1st_cliff on 6/11/15




Strong Axe I'm sorry but I'm not making an issue of it only letting you know that what you said lumping all oneness together wasn't a fact. The way you put it the second way is totally new to me and not the way I see it,I believe the Bible as it's given,Hear oh Israel the Lord our God is one Deuteronomy 6:4. God is all in all and without Him we are nothing . That conceived in Mary was of the Holy Spirit,God is Christs Father,His Word is Made flesh the man Jesus therefore God is the Father ,He is the Word/Jesus,and He is the Holy Ghost. Very complex yet very simple. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 6/11/15


PART 1

Cliff the answer:

"We're writing to you about something which has always existed yet which we ourselves actually saw and heard: something which we had an opportunity to observe closely and even to hold in our hands, and yet, as we know now, was something of the very Word of life himself! For it was life which appeared before us: we saw it, eye-witnesses of it, and are now writing to you about it. It was the very life of all ages, the life that always existed with the Father, which actually became visible in person to us mortals. We repeat, we really saw and heard what we are now writing to you about. We want you to be with us in this - in this fellowship with the Father, and Jesus Christ his Son." (1 John 1:1-3)
---Marc on 6/11/15


Darlene_1:

You said: Just for information sake not all oneness deny the Trinity.

As far as I am aware, Oneness people all believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, just at Trinitarians do. They just have a slightly different view of their equality.

Trinitarians believe "Father is God. Son is God. Holy Spirit is God. Father is not Son. Son is not Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is not Father".

Oneness people believe "Father is God. Son is God. Holy Spirit is God. Father is Son. Son is Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is Father".

In my opinion, it's largely a matter of choking on gnats to make a huge issue of it.
---StrongAxe on 6/11/15


\\I would like to see a trinity believer show how an "immortal" God can die !!!
---1st_cliff on 6/11/15\\

Now you know why the early Christian writers said that in the Incarnation, God borrowed death, something foreign to His own nature, to save us from it.

The Orthodox Holy Week services will explain this in detail. Look them up. It cannot be summarized in 125 words.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/11/15


aservant:

Oneness people deny trinity. They believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They just

think they are one and the same.

---StrongAxe on 6/11/15


Oneness people essentially believe that Jesus is the only God, and the Father and Holy Spirit are personas of Jesus. See Wikipedia (Oneness Pentecostalism).

In effect, they are asserting the Spiritual Author of the Bible is lying - 2Tim

3:16. Their problem: Jesus does not lie - 1Sa 15:29, Titus 1:2, Heb 6:18.

To believe as they do, would invalidate every conversation Jesus had with our Father.
---aservant on 6/11/15




I would like to see a trinity believer show how an "immortal" God can die !!!
---1st_cliff on 6/11/15


God never died. His "wetsuit" (human body) died. As men need a wetsuit to operate immersed in the ocean, spirits need a flesh body to operate immersed in the earth.

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who makes alive . . .

Jesus sent His Spirit to our Father - Luk 23:46, that His flesh could die. When His Spirit reentered His dead flesh, He came alive again.

It is not possible that God could ever die. He IS Spirit - Jn 4:24.
---aservant on 6/11/15


I would like to see a trinity believer show how an "immortal" God can die !!!
---1st_cliff on 6/11/15


Mary's name is not mentioned in either genealogy.
---learner2 on 6/11/15


Strong Axe Just for information sake not all oneness deny the Trinity. There may be a few that do but its not a set rule. I was raised going to a oneness church with my Grandparents and learned about God there just as I did Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Maybe some of us don't see Trinity as most do. I believe in the Father,Word/Son,and Holy Ghost and these three are one just as Jesus said. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 6/11/15


Learner2, you claim scripture is mistaken???? Or are you saying Joseph had two different father's? Which is it? Luke is Mary's geanology through her father's line, and Matthew is Joseph's through his father's line. All geanology in scripture is stated through the father's line. if you study, and research, you will also find those who do know scripture will tell you the same thing.
For all we know Mary's father's name may have been Joseph too. Can you prove it wasn't?
---kathr4453 on 6/11/15


Nicole_Lacey:

StrongAxe in other words you don't have chapter and verse.

125 word limit forces brevity.
Rev. 5:5: ... the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book...

So stop with this 'only Scripture' because I proved you as well using Tradition.

Scripture supercedes tradition. If scripture says something, it matters not what tradition says.


aservant:

Oneness people deny trinity. They believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They just think they are one and the same.


(Moderator: Why is it that when the site goes down, like on Memorial Day or last week, it says posts will be approved later, but they all disappear?)
---StrongAxe on 6/11/15


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Why are some Christians Trinity deniers?

All who believe they are Christian, are not.

Rom 8:9 . . . if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ONLY those having the Spirit residing in their human bodies are saved.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Men are always accusing God (Jesus) of lying. Sin deceives.

Rom 3:4 . . . let God be true, but every man a liar. . .
---aservant on 6/10/15


Both genealogies are Joseph's. They say so. They just do not match.
---learner2 on 6/10/15


God could use any woman because the Jewish connection is linked by Joseph. As the other women married to a Jewish Man.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/2/15

Mary gave Jesus his LITERAL Jewish DNA. Joseph was not His biological father. God is, yet God is not Jewish. There are two geanologies ..one in Matthew and one in Luke. both are different. One is Mary's and one is Joseph's.
Mary is of the Line of David as well, also Elizabeth's literal cousin, who was from the tribe of Levi. Those from Judah certainly can be cousins with those from Levi. The Bible says Jesus is of the SEED of David, of the SEED of Abraham. So in fact Mary HAD to be of Jewish descent, since Joseph's seed was not used. Mary is of the seed of David.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/15


Trinitarians are nut cases, and snake handlers are nut cases. Seems like anybody is a nut case who disagrees.
---learner2 on 6/10/15


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Correct Cluny and thank you for the good point.

On Christ the Solid rock I stand.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/10/15


2/2 1John 5:6-9 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Also, 1Corinthians 12:3(4-6)-28, 2Corinthians 13:14.
---Glenn on 6/10/15


1/2 1st_cliff: There have been hundreds of verses (as mentioned in past blogs) concerning one, two, or the three members of the Trinity. That would be quite a few straws to grasp. One could build a fine raft and float a whole doctrine on it. Rather than addressing many of those comments, you seem to fixate on 1John 5 which is not "obviously spurious", as there are quite a few opinions pro and con. Though Arianists used to love this verse as they would misinterpret "these three are one". The verses in question follow minus the Comma Johanneum. And you will notice mention of all three persons.
---Glenn on 6/10/15


Snake handling as part of religious services began in the Pentecostal churches of Appalachia, in all it killed 71 people.
The snake handlers got cute and by not feeding or watering the snakes they become weak and not likely to bite !making it look like God's protection !
I certainly would not trust these nut cases!
---1st_cliff on 6/10/15


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\\The end of Mark 16 advocates the drinking of poison ( like Jimmy Jones' kool aid)and handling poisonous snakes\\

No, it doesn't.

IT promises protection.

I could give you examples that have come down, but you probably think that history is bunk.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/10/15


1 Cliff Actually it's the peoples fault they died for trying God,the Bible doesn't say you won't die if you inflict snakes or poison on yourself on purpose. To me the verse is just telling us God will take care of us no matter what happens to us. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 6/10/15


MODS: I note that there have been no entries posted after 6/2/2015 and before 6/9/2015. All of my posts during that time are missing.

What happened?


---jerry6593 on 6/10/15


Cluny, Downright dangerous!
The end of Mark 16 advocates the drinking of poison ( like Jimmy Jones' kool aid)and handling poisonous snakes !Many have died from believing these verses !
---1st_cliff on 6/10/15


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//1John 5.7 is not in early manuscripts//
Can you provide an "early manuscript"
---michael_e on 6/9/15


If we removed everything from the Bible that some considered spurious, or copyists' errors, or doublets, or scribal glosses, or were otherwise questionable, we wouldn't have much of a Bible left.

The so called "earliest mss" date from the time of the Christological controversies and could have been doctored by heretics.

Among other passages in the NT not in the earliest mss are John 8 (the woman taken in adultery) and the end of Mark.

Do you consider themselves inauthentic and spurious, too, Cliff?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/9/15


Michael e, Your comment is typical of those grasping at straws to support trinity.
1John 5.7 is not in early manuscripts and is obviously spurious!
Nice try !
---1st_cliff on 6/2/15


StrongAxe in other words you don't have chapter and verse.

As I, you are going by?
Say it! TRADITION.

So stop with this 'only Scripture' because I proved you as well using Tradition.
God could use any woman because the Jewish connection is linked by Joseph. As the other women married to a Jewish Man.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/2/15


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Mary:

You said: I don't get what people argue about here: the Bible makes it plain there's God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. So what's the problem?!

Yet scriptures always say "The Father", never "God the Father", "The Son of God", never "God the Son", and "The Spirit of God", never "God the Holy Spirit". Why do we change this?


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: Give Chapter and Verse that states Mary is a Jew, PLEASE?

Jesus was the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, which he could not be, had his mother not been Jewish.

We know she is Jewish by TRADITION ONLY!

I guess this applies to every Jew in the Bible too?
---StrongAxe on 6/2/15


The problem Mary is that even when the Bible is specific people still want to disagree.

Jesus also said His Body is true food and His Blood is true drink. People still claim Jesus wasn't serious but only speaking in symbolic terms.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/2/15


In almost every epistle Paul writes he addresses God our Father (Phil 1:2). He calls Jesus God and Saviour Titus 2:13. Paul says the Lord is the Spirit 2 Cor 3:17.
All three persons are called God, every attribute that describes God can be used to describe the Father, Son, and the Spirit. All three distinct persons represent a separate record of testimony. Yet, the three are the one and only God.
Heresies are born about God when all scripture isn't considered. Heresies about what God is doing are born when all scripture isn't rightly divided. All scripture is profitable for doctrine, but not all doctrine is for our participation.
We serve one God of three persons. There's no clearer statement describing the triune God than 1 John 5:7.
---michael_e on 6/2/15


I don't get what people argue about here: the Bible makes it plain there's God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. So what's the problem?!
---Mary on 6/2/15


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...if these so-called biblical notions cannot be substantiated by scripture, they should be rejected.
---James_L on 6/1/15

Wisdom James.

I'll never forget the guy that said, "would you go against the Prophets?"
Not considering, many do. Those that are willing to do this, give us an insight to this individual.
The examples are given of those that were against GOD's spokepersons.
Notable that it was typically a multitude or a power in office against an individual Prophet. (GOD sends one, men form many)
One should consider every time a personal/denominational doctrine/belief is given that they can not list "all" the clearly specific witnesses to back up their doctrine.
---Trav on 6/2/15


StrongAxe, Mary is Jewish! RCC always knew she is Jewish because of Tradition.

You are the claiming if it isn't stated in the Bible you won't accept it as truth.

I am showing you how you are following TRADITION as the RCC.

Tamar, Ruth and Rahab are in the same list as Mary. We know the other 3 were NOT JEWISH due to the Bible.

Follow your own rule: Only Scripture

Give Chapter and Verse that states Mary is a Jew, PLEASE?

I can follow Tradition, but you can't.

We know she is Jewish by TRADITION ONLY!

So, if you believe Mary is a Jew without Scripture then you HAVE to say Mary is the Mother of God because Scripture states JESUS IS GOD.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/2/15


..homoousion or some such word and evangelicals swallowed it hook line and sinker !(circa 325 AD)
---1st_cliff on 5/31/15

Please explain your understanding of God to us.

My understanding of God starts with Jesus. Jesus told us that "No one knows the Father except the Son" and only Jesus referred to God as "My Father".

Jesus told us "I and The Father are One". One in relationship. Jesus told us that The Father was in Him and He was in The Father. Jesus also told us that "The Father dwells in Me".
---Mark_Eaton on 6/2/15


and their relation (Perichoresis).
---Glenn on 6/2/15

Thank you.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".

The word "with" is the Greek word "pros" which means near by, towards, face to face.

Jesus as the pre-Incarnate Logos was face to face with The Father from all Eternity. Their relation was so close that Jesus described it as One.

I love the word Perichoresis. Jesus, His Father, and the Holy Spirit in a union so close that it can only be descried as being One but in that relationship they still retain their individuality.

This is the holiness of God. Their uniqueness of relationship.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/2/15


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None are!
God is Triune! In order to worship Him, a Christian has to understand who He is. Two of the subjects that the Holy Spirit teaches believers are the nature of the Supreme Being (theology), and their relation (Perichoresis). To resist the Holy Spirit is an Act 7:51 sort of thing to do.
Matthew 7:21,13:3-23, John 7:17, 14:16-27, 1Corinthian 2:9-16, 2Peter 3:16.
---Glenn on 6/2/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: No were in the Bible is Mary listed as a Jew.
We know she is Jewish by TRADITION!


So what was she? Catholic? Buddhist? Did she suddenly convert to one of these before giving birth to Jesus? If so, why would she? You can assume any wild theory you want, but it's just pulling speculation out of thin air.

People are generally assumed to be part of the prevailing religion in the area they are in (Jewish in Judea, etc.) unless there is a good reason to think otherwise, and when that is the case, scripture specifically mentions it (e.g. Ruth).
---StrongAxe on 6/2/15


Samuel makes an astute observation on one front. Scripture teaches that Jesus is equal with God. But scripture also teaches that He is subservient to God, doing not His own will but that of the
James_L

That he was subservient because he was GOD and man. As a man he was subservient to his father.

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Revelations 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Jesus is the creator. He is GOD.

Jesus came to show the truth.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/1/15


\\Show me in the scriptures these technical terms.\\
---James L



They are right after the ones that say "personal Savior" and "accept Christ."
---Cluny on 6/1/15



Exactamundo. And if these so-called biblical notions cannot be substantiated by scripture, they should be rejected

We don't have to resort to fabrication of truth through doctrinal imposition.

Scripture does well enough standing alone
---James_L on 6/1/15


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No Strongeaxe, the Bible link Jesus back to Abraham through Joseph not Mary.
It only tells you Mary is his Joseph's Wife.
As Ruth, Tamar, and Rahab are named as WIVES. We know they were Jewish.
No were in the Bible is Mary listed as a Jew.
We know she is Jewish by TRADITION!

That's the problem when you only wish to follow 'only Scripture', it gets you into trouble.

You use it when you fits your beliefs, but refuse to allow others to bend the rules.

SHOW ME WHERE IT STATES IN THE BIBLE THAT MARY IS A JEW?

If you can't find it quess what?
You are following TRADITION that she is a JEW.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/1/15


People have struggled with the NATURE of Jesus, ever since He began to reveal Himself as the Anointed One, Son of David, Son of God, et al

The issue of Trinity hangs on a misunderstanding of the above realities.


Samuel makes an astute observation on one front. Scripture teaches that Jesus is equal with God. But scripture also teaches that He is subservient to God, doing not His own will but that of the Father


Cliff is also off the mark, thinking of Son from a Greek mindset.
---James_L on 6/1/15


Cliff, OK, if you think you're smart and we're stupid, so be it. You're welcome to your opinion.
---learner2 on 6/1/15


Samuelbb/learner, I come on strong because I can't believe intelligent people swallow that nonsense!
From the time of Adam to the advent of Christ nothing was even hinted at a "triune God.
The Levitical and Aaronic priesthood were never taught this right to the Rabbis of Jesus' day.
Deut.6.4. sealed it !
Ask your local Rabbi if the Jews ever believed in a triune God or was it taught in the Talmud/Tora ,Mishnah or Gammara !
NO ! This doctrine was invented in the Constantine era !
Arius was murdered by Trinitarians to shut him up !
---1st_cliff on 6/1/15


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Cliff, my issue is not whether you believe in the Trinity or not. I can understand disbelief. It is how you presented your views...
---learner2 on 6/1/15


Nicole Lacey, what is the point in mentioning Mary to people who don't even believe in the real Jesus?
---Cluny on 5/31/15

You're the real deal alright.
You've never once used his real name.
You've notably failed converting any of us to your "cult".
Why do you continue to be "yoked" with us, unbelievers of your "cult"?
You're obviously not a "Shepherd" since sheep are not your post mission.
Your not a teacher since you've taught us nothing.
Not a preacher, you've preached any gospel of your "real" Jesus.
Adversary is a fit. In sarkasmos.
Psa_74:10 O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall ...
Isa_50:8 He is near that justifieth...
---Trav on 6/1/15


\\That's just a lazy excuse. Show me in the scriptures these technical terms.\\

They are right after the ones that say "personal Savior" and "accept Christ."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/1/15


Thank you StrongAx.

1stCliff Believers in the Trinity are forced to do so because the Bible keeps telling us they are equal.

Matthew 28:19 is a start.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

We are adopted and created but Jesus was neither. John 1:18 Read john 5. 2 Peter 1:17

1John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2John 1:3
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

2John 1:9
---Samuelbb7 on 6/1/15


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Nicole_Lacey:

You said: Scripture also doesn't tell you Mary is a Jew either.

Actually, since Jesus's lineage is traced back from both Mary and Joseph backwards all the way to Judah, Abraham, and Adam, it does.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/15


learner 2, Partly !
Why not stick to scripture?
Jesus asked His disciples "Who do you say I am"?
Thomas said "You're almighty God " ...No he didn't
James said " I think you're part of a triune godhead"...No he didn't
Andrew said " I believe you're homoousious" ...NO NO NO.
Peter said "You are the Christ (anointed) SON of the living God"
For this answer Jesus commended Peter...which is also my answer , but according to Cluny neither Peter or I know the "real Jesus "
---1st_cliff on 6/1/15


Nicole Lacey, what is the point in mentioning Mary to people who don't even believe in the real Jesus?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/31/15


"back in 451 A.D...."
---Monk

Yup, which is after Augustine's "On the Trinity" in 415.

After the church went west do we get this notion of "technical term"


"Jesus has two natures--human and divine. "Nature" here has a technical meaning"
---Monk


That's just a lazy excuse. Show me in the scriptures these technical terms.


And believe me, I'm not advocating Arianism.

Have you read my comments on the Athanasian Creed?
---James_L on 5/31/15


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James and Cliff, you poor souls. You need God to prove everything to you both. God is God and you are not.

Scripture also doesn't tell you Mary is a Jew either.
Common Sense for those who have them tells them Jesus is God and Mary is a Jew who is the one chosen by God to be His mother.

So, If you can't say Mary is the mother of God then you can't say Jesus is God.

He never gave up his Divinity.

Monk explained His Natures well.

A Veteran once told me Common Sense isn't too Common.

How true.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/31/15


Cliff's implication seems to be that those who believe in the Trinity are stupid, as opposed to him, who is smart. Do I have that right, Cliff?
---learner2 on 5/31/15


Jerry, You opened a Pandora's box with this subject.
This has got to be the dumbest doctrine ever invented by man!
Psl 110.1 "Sit at my right hand " Now there's a stretch of the imagination, God sit at His own right hand??? Yep, that's what it says.
God is the great creator, not the master magician ,or illusionist.
There was no word in scripture to support "trinity" so the masterminds made one up..homoousion or some such word and evangelicals swallowed it hook line and sinker !(circa 325 AD)
---1st_cliff on 5/31/15


James said, "...You're using "Nature" in the wrong context. It's not divine and human, it's spirit and flesh.
His divine nature is Spirit
His human nature is flesh.
Anything other than that, and you'll have a Jesus who has 2 souls."


James, back in 451 A.D., this was all argued in the Council of Chalcedon. Jesus has two natures--human and divine. "Nature" here has a technical meaning. Just as God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have a divine nature, mind, and will, Jesus also has a human nature, mind and will, just like you. Jesus retained His divine nature, and united it with His human nature when He was born of Mary.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 5/31/15


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Because the refuse to believe the Bible and follow Jesus.

That want GOD to be someone they can understand. They want to be different.

Many of my church leaders started out mistaken. But the Holy Spirit lead them to the truth after much Bible study.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/31/15


Lawrence in at church.
---learner2 on 5/31/15


I opened this blog for Lawrence - to keep him from hijacking other blogs.

Where is he?



---jerry6593 on 5/31/15


Those who believe in the pagan trinity just don't "get it".
When Jesus prayed to His Father He was not talking to himself! What nonsense!
When Jesus was baptized His Father said "This is my Son of whom I am well pleased"
(He was pleased with Himself?)
Wake up !
---1st_cliff on 5/31/15


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"we call Mary The Mother of God."
---Nicole_Lacey

Scripture doesn't
---James_L on 5/30/15

Nothing speaks like the facts.
In this case, what is not said (authorized or commanded)that speaks loudest.

Quite amazing really, this need to pray to Mary, or the saints, icons, rather than the clearest statements of Christ.
Joh_5:43 I am come in my Father's name, ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
---Trav on 5/31/15


Jesus has 2 natures human and Divine....
He is fully Man and fully Divine."
---Nicole_Lacey

You think He has a divine body and human spirit?

Hint:
You're using "Nature" in the wrong context. It's not divine and human, it's spirit and flesh.

His divine nature is Spirit

His human nature is flesh.

Anything other than that, and you'll have a Jesus who has 2 souls



"we call Mary The Mother of God."
---Nicole_Lacey

Scripture doesn't
---James_L on 5/30/15


Well, the Bible says Jesus is God's "Son". A son has the same nature as his father. Mankind is more than one person. This does not mean there are many mankinds. So, if someone says God being more than one Person means there are many "gods", this can be making things up.

But why? God is personal . . . Father and Son and Holy Spirit. These are Persons of family caring and sharing love. But a number of people are not personal in this so very intimate love. So, they can get tied up, instead, with arguing and trying to show who is the greatest.

But "God is love" (1 John 4:8 & 16), and They want us to join in Their family sharing. But we need to personally submit to God so He corrects us into such loving.
---Bill on 5/30/15


James, you can have 1 egg but 3 parts. You can divide the egg. Shell, yoke, white part.
But all together it is one egg.

No one can prove to you as you wish. Only God can give you FAITH.
But Matthew 28 should be enough for you.
Jesus instructed them to baptized in the name of 3 Persons.
In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Making all 3 equal.
One God 3 Persons.
Just like our beliefs in Jesus confuses Muslims.
Jesus has 2 natures human and Divine. Not half of each.
He is fully Man and fully Divine.
He NEVER gave up His Divinity.
That's why we call Mary The Mother of God. Jesus as a baby is still God.

Just Trust.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/30/15


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Most people do not understand the trinity even among Evangelicals.
---john9346 on 5/29/15


Not all "Trinity" deniers can be grouped together.

If you want today's version, the "3 Coeternal" Trinity, I reject that one too.

But if you want Athanasius' version, which states there are NOT 3 Eternals, but ONE Eternal, scripture supports that.

In doctrinal jargon, it all hangs on your definition of "Person"

Scripture never once says "One God in 3 Persons", so the "3 persons" crowd needs to define "Person"

If you have 3 Eternals, you have a false god
---James_L on 5/29/15


\\People deny the Trinity because they have serious doubts about it, quite often in good faith. I will let God be the judge as to their beliefs.
---learner2 on 5/29/15\\

Frequently what such people deny is a total misunderstanding that is NOT the Doctrine of the Trinity that the Church actually believes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/30/15


People deny the Trinity because they have serious doubts about it, quite often in good faith. I will let God be the judge as to their beliefs.
---learner2 on 5/29/15


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Now, why did James White, one of the founders of the SDA deny the Trinity? He and other early leaders were Arians.

Cluny

Yes they were until lead by the writings of E.G.White to accept that they were wrong.

That the trinity was not only Biblical but a true basic teaching. They went to the Bible and argued for over ten years until they came to agreement that the Bible does teach the Trinity.

We have defended and used our experience since then to support this Truth.

Nicole you are correct. They refuse to let GOD be incomprehensible to us poor mortals.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/29/15


I believe people who can not understand the doctrine of the Trinity refuse to accept the mystery.
They have to know. They refuse to trust Jesus.

I don't have to understand Jesus' commands to obey or believe in them.

The same concept of Jesus stating He is TRUE FOOD and TRUE DRINK in John ch 6.

They are a group I call "God, convince me first before I believe you.'
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/29/15


Those who deny the Trinity are NOT Christians because they do not believe in the real Jesus, but a counterfeit christ.

How's that for a slogan?

Now, why did James White, one of the founders of the SDA deny the Trinity? He and other early leaders were Arians.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 5/29/15


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