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Tithing Before The Law

Was collecting a tithe instituted before the Law was written?

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 ---aservant on 6/21/15
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//The language in v. 28 was used to show how money should be included as "increase" in tithing.//

aservant, I reread 28 trying to understand how you may read that. I think I see..28:"..all the tithe of thine increase the same year, .." Apparently you read that as "thine [money] increase."

However, the Hebrew clearly says, "...tenth of your yield.."

The context is produce, not money.
---Rod4Him on 7/8/15


---Rod4Him on 7/8/15

What you said is true, but still does not alter the fact that the language of v. 28 does not support the notion that tithing is only in effect where crops and animals are one's increase.

Doesn't alter the fact that Scripture in Numbers does not support the notion the one must tithe only on crops and animals. There is no language that supports an exception when the farmer sold animals or crops that says, the gold, silver, or coin you received from the sale is exempt from the tithe.

God gives you 50,000 bushels, you sell 30,000 bushels, yet you expect to tithe on only the 20,000 bushels, but not the money received.

The language doesn't support that notion.
---aservant on 7/8/15


Neither before the law, nor now *1. However, being charitable is consistent with having a new nature *2.
Note: Abraham gave the standard Middle-Eastern 10% war-booty kickback, Genesis 14:20, Hebrews 7:4.
*1 Acts 15:5-10, Galatians 4:1-5:12, Hebrews 7:12, 18, 8:6-7.
*2 Deuteronomy 15:7-11, Romans 12:8, 2Corinthians 9:7, Galatians 2:10, 1Timothy 5:16-18, 1Peter 4:9, 1John 3:17.
---Glenn on 7/8/15


//...tithing included only crops and animals, which the language of v. 28 does not support, and shows that tithing is not limited to crops and animals.//

However, in this context produce is converted to silver/money and then converted back to produce. This was for the person who lived far from the place "where He chooses to establish His name,..."
In addition, the person was to "You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires, and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household."

Every third year was produce for the Levites, alien, orphan and the widow.
---Rod4Him on 7/8/15


You are the one that used Deut. 14:28 to support the idea of a general tithe. So, do you admit that you used a portion of a sentence in a verse out of context?
---Rod4Him on 7/7/15


Not true. It was well within context. I was responding to a question about seed. The language in v. 28 was used to show how money should be included as "increase" in tithing. The questioner seems to believe that tithing included only crops and animals, which the language of v. 28 does not support, and shows that tithing is not limited to crops and animals.

Scripture from Numbers further support tithing is not limited to crops and animals, and that normal tithes are for Levites, not the poor.
---aservant on 7/7/15




//There was a regular tithe and a special 3 year tithe, which was collected for a different purpose.//

You are the one that used Deut. 14:28 to support the idea of a general tithe. So, do you admit that you used a portion of a sentence in a verse out of context?

To have a fruitful discussion, it is helpful to take one passage at a time in context and discuss it.
---Rod4Him on 7/7/15


---Rod4Him on 7/6/15

There was a regular tithe and a special 3 year tithe, which was collected for a different purpose. Why there is tithing does not change.

That was Dt, below is Lev.

Num 18:26 (GW) "Speak to the Levites and say to them: You will take one-tenth of the Israelites' income which I'm giving you as your property. When you do, you must contribute one-tenth of that income as your contribution to the LORD.

Num 18:26 (ISV) Tell the descendants of Levi that when they receive tithes from the Israelis the tithes that I've given you from them as an inheritance, you are to offer a tenth of it as a raised offering for the LORD.
---aservant on 7/7/15


//v. 28 specifies "all the tithe of thine increase",...//

In the beginning of that verse and sentence it says, "[28]At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year,..//

"At the end of three years.."
In addition it was for the Levites and (vs 29 says), "..the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow,.."
Furthermore, the people were suppose "to eat" some of the tithes as a big feast. (The Baptists will like that...a big potluck, using "tithes")

To pick and choose portions of Scripture to try to prove that a tithe is appropriate for a church for today is disingenuous, especially from those verses.
---Rod4Him on 7/6/15


Aservant
If God accepted money as a Tithe, why did God give the instruction given in (Deuteronomy 14:22-27), to the traveler?
---David on 7/6/15


First, God is speaking to his people - v. 1, who are not living in a city.

v. 22 re seed
v. 23 re animals
v. 28 specifies "all the tithe of thine increase", which includes money (i.e., gold, silver, coin). It is reasonable that a farmer might sell crops or animals for money, and have to tithe on that increase.

None if this gets around Heb 7:8 (MKJV) And here men who die receive tithes, but there he receives them . . . (from increase given to God's people)

God does not lie.
---aservant on 7/6/15


Aservant
If God accepted money as a Tithe, why did God give the instruction given in (Deuteronomy 14:22-27), to the traveler?
---David on 7/6/15




I was never a farmer or rancher, so I'd never have been obligated to tithe under any circumstances.
---learner2 on 7/5/15


Thanks David, along the same line, the OT tithe supported the government system and religious system...that is irrelevant today. To suggest that a "Church" needs 10 percent seems ludicrous.

However, if one goes to church, they ought to give something to support it. People buy tickets to see movies after all.
---Rod4Him on 7/5/15


---David on 7/5/15

The emphasis was on what what sacrificed, 1/10th (tithe) not on what was was received. The command was not "make sure the high priest gets 1%." The command was to "sacrifice a tenth (of your increase)".

Our concern is to obey. God's concern is how and to whom it is distributed. IOW, perform as you are commanded.

There was never a command to sacrifice 1%.

Scripture says the High Priest is currently receiving tithes, not currently receiving 1%. God could have written, "give to the High Priest a tenth of a tenth." But He Authored in Heb 7:8 - the High Priest is receiving a tenth.
---aservant on 7/5/15


Aservant
Let me try to explain that a little clearer.

If I make $3000 a week, My tithe (10%) would be $300.

Of the $300 I tithe to the Levites, as their inheritance, they pay God 10% of that $300, as their tithe. The amount paid to God, that amount after the Levites got their share from my tithe, is only $30.

And if you want to believe the tithe is relevant in the New Testament, that $30 would be all I am required to pay.
Being that is only 1% of my income, it would no longer be a tithe.
---David on 7/5/15


Jesus doesn't receive tithes.
---learner2 on 7/4/15


Jesus does not receive tithes.
---micha9344 on 7/4/15


Now you are calling Scripture a lie. And by extension, you are calling The Father (the Author) a liar. No Spirit inhabited Christian would dare to do that. He is the Truth. This action proves you have no real understanding, or fear of God.

2Sam 7:28 . . . thou art that God, and thy words be true
Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God . . .
Jer 42:5 . . . The LORD be a true and faithful witness . . .
Rom 3:4 . . . let God be true, but every man a liar . . .
---aservant on 7/4/15


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/Jesus sacrificed His life. You are expected to just sacrifice "increase".\-aservant on 7/3/15
/I surrender one tenth
I surrender one tenth
One tenth to thee, my blessed savior
I surrender one tenth.\
-StrongAxe on 6/26/15
Mark 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
/Jesus paid one tenth,
A tithe to Him I owe,
Sin had partly left a stain.
...\-Not
---micha9344 on 7/4/15


. . . and only 1% of the tithe went into Gods storehouse, wouldn't that amount be all we are required to pay . . . ?
---David on 7/4/15


Read Num 18. Levites received tithes from God's people. High Priest received tithes from the Levites = 1% of what God's People tithed - v 26. "for ever" - v 23-24 = no expiration.

So God wanted the church workers paid back then, but He does not want them to be paid today? Better be sure you are right.

Heb 7:8 (MKJV) And here men who die receives tithes (1/10, not 1/100), but there he receives them . . .

receives = present tense. God wrote this, not me.

No one paid 1 %.
---aservant on 7/4/15


Aservant
The Tithe was paid for two reasons. One for the Levite inheritance, and two, to fill Gods storehouse.

Now when each tribe paid their tithe, how much of that 10% was given to God? Wasn't God only given a tenth of that 10%? A tenth of 10%, is only one percent!

Now since the Levites no longer receive their inheritance, and only 1% of the tithe went into Gods storehouse, wouldn't that amount be all we are required to pay if we were under this law?
---David on 7/4/15


A required tithe doesn't change the heart or the action. (Mat 23:23, Gal 4:9, Rom 8:3)
The tithe given to Levites was because they had no land inheritance (Numbers 18:21).
One tithe even allowed you to stay home and spend it on what you desired (Deut 14:26).
Law tithing requirements were greater than 10 percent
Deut 14:28 is one example of the tithe on the increase every 3 years that was above the regular Levitical tithe.
tithing obligates the doer to the entire law Gal 5:3, James 2:10
The tithe was required Giving today is not of necessity (2 Cor 9:7). This is an important distinction between generosity and obligation.
Law tithing represents ignorance or negligence of Christs cross (Gal 3:13, 1 Cor 1:17, Gal 2:21).
---michael_e on 7/4/15


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Freely giving to God is not the issue.
Tithing is.
You still have yet to justify Jesus receiving tithes based on 1 misinterpreted verse(Heb 7:8).
Jesus does not receive tithes.
Tithes went to the Levites for food and to be distributed among the poor and widows for food, from both Israel and the Levites.
Ours is the freewill offering, given freely, through the guidance of the HS, for the service of His people and for His glory.
It is not restricted to a trivial 10%, nor is it compulsory.
The widow did not pay tithes, she gave freely.
The early believers sold what they had and gave freely.
There is no commands nor examples of believers tithing.
Those who believe that tithing is a command have money as another master.
---micha9344 on 7/4/15


- 2 of 2 -

If Father concludes that many of you love money more than you love Him, He will likely have a Jealous reaction - Ex 34:14. He can bring your love back to Him by removing the "competition". If you are sure about not tithing, He will probably start reducing your income and give it to another who will tithe to Him. It is His money.

Truly, I am amazed at this non-tithing attitude since it is the "Savior" receiving them. Why would He receive tithes if they are not required? He was tortured and killed for you. Worshiping Father with tithes is for you, not Him.

Jesus sacrificed His life. You are expected to just sacrifice "increase".
---aservant on 7/3/15


Money is temporal, the treasures in heaven are not.
Giving of one's possessions freely and not out of compulsion is much better than 10%.
---micha9344 on 7/2/15


Perhaps God will respect your conclusions more than He respects His own.

Obedience regarding God's money is the Spiritual treasure laid up in Heaven.

Worship with the tithe is another Spiritual Treasure

Sacrifice that serves the interests of God, and fearing God are other Spiritual treasures.

Spiritual treasures cannot be touched by human hands.
---aservant on 7/3/15


In context & rightly divided:
2 Chr 31:5 ...gave in abundance the firstfruits of corn, new wine and oil and honey, and of all the increase of the field...they brought in abundantly the tithe of all things.
-Crops & Cattle
Lev 27:2 ...When any one devoteth anything by a vow, the persons shall be for Jehovah according to thy valuation.
Lev 27:15 ...his house...of thy valuation...
Lev 27:19 ...the field...of thy valuation...
Num 18:16 (first-born)
-None of these were the tithe.
Honestly, don't you think we would read your references?
So the answer is: They didn't.
/I have said to you all that my Master wanted me to say...I have no need to talk with you further about tithing.\-aservant on 6/30/15
You sure?
---micha9344 on 7/3/15


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servant, as you wish.,
---learner2 on 7/3/15


- 1 of 2 -

If you want to convince us tithing is a part of the New covenant, show us in the Gospels of Jesus Christ, the one who brought forth the New covenant.
---David on 7/3/15


My Master does not expect me to convince anyone - Eze 3:17-21. He does expect those who have been told to "rightly divide" His Word. He does demand to be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth. Spirit and Truth are in His Word, which you have been given.

Jesus speaking about tithes in the NT, and receiving tithes to worship the Father with should be an enough proof, since tithing was established (by Abraham's example) before the Law was given.
---aservant on 7/3/15


servant, what you are saying is that you have a conscience. Most people do.
---learner2 on 7/2/15


Conscience normally is within the framework, or on the edges of right or wrong. A check in one's Spirit is seldom about right or wrong.

For example, I may think it is a good idea to spend the day praying with the Lord. He might stop me from praying after an hour and send me to visit Mr. Jones.
---aservant on 7/3/15


2 Chr 31:5 (Brenton) . .
2 Chr 31:5 (Darby) . .
Lev 27:15
Lev 27:19
Num 18:16 --aservant on 7/2/15


Aservant
And yet, you can not give us a single command to Tithe from the New Testament. That alone should tell you, if it was an important part of worship, Jesus would have given us the command to tithe.

Through Moses, God gave the command to tithe, but that command did not come through Jesus Christ. (John 1:17) If you want to convince us tithing is a part of the New covenant, show us in the Gospels of Jesus Christ, the one who brought forth the New covenant.
---David on 7/3/15


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servant, what you are saying is that you have a conscience. Most people do.
---learner2 on 7/2/15


If tithing to the Levites was only crops and cattle, how did the merchants and laborers, who received moneys for their goods and services, tithe?
---micha9344 on 7/1/15


2 Chr 31:5 (Brenton) . . . tithes of everything abundantly.

2 Chr 31:5 (Darby) . . . they brought in abundantly the tithe of all things.

They also received money.
Lev 27:15
Lev 27:19
Num 18:16 And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.
---aservant on 7/2/15


Do you keep all the Laws of Moses, or just those of your own choosing?
---David on 7/2/15


Rom 8:2 the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

One good thing about the Spirit dwelling inside me is that, whenever I am about to do something that God does not want me to do, He will put a check in my spirit (i.e., similar to that sense of needing to be cautious so you don't proceed).
---aservant on 7/2/15


/trifle with God over whether you will comply with His temporal requirements\
Tithing is not His temporal requirement for Christians, just as building an ark nor circumcision.
/Mal 3:8-10\
So many use these passages out of context to erroneously try to place guilt on those that know the truth.
They have been addressed, yet are still being misused.
/justify not tithing is just utter foolishness.\
Letting the Word of God shape one's doctrine rather than being indoctrinated by the teachings of man is not foolishness.
/Better to lay up treasure in Heaven before you die.\
Money is temporal, the treasures in heaven are not.
Giving of one's possessions freely and not out of compulsion is much better than 10%.
---micha9344 on 7/2/15


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- 4 of 4 -

---David on 7/1/15

Without the Blood offering of Jesus, we would not be able to approach God's throne in person to offer Spiritual sacrifices - praise, thanksgiving, etc.

It is sheer foolishness to trifle with God over whether you will comply with His temporal requirements or not, since going to Heaven is on the line. He thinks it is incredibly stupid that one robs Him. Mal 3:8-10

To me, all these "reasons" to justify not tithing is just utter foolishness. You are going to leave your money in the sandbox when you die anyway. Better to lay up treasure in Heaven before you die.
---aservant on 7/2/15


If tithing to the Levites was only crops and cattle, how did the merchants and laborers, who received moneys for their goods and services, tithe?
---micha9344 on 7/1/15


- 3 of 4 -

What is misunderstood here is that part of any covenant with God includes sharing your increase with Him as visual, public evidence of your honoring what God requires in His covenant relationship with you.

The point of Jesus' death was as a Blood offering to God from the Gentiles. Without that offering, you would have no covenant with God. So if you are not complying with the covenant requirements, does one really think that will put them in good stead with God, especially since He is the one who is choosing who goes to heaven with Him?
---aservant on 7/1/15


Tithe = 1/10--aservant

Aservant
Are we under the Law of Moses, or are we under the Law of Christ? Under which covenant was the Law of Tithing enacted, the Law of Moses, or the Law of Christ?

Do you keep all the Laws of Moses, or just those of your own choosing?



---David on 7/2/15


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- 2 of 4 -

---David on 7/1/15

Levites were given as a gift to the High Priest, specifically to do the labor required when making sacrifices and offerings to God. They were the church workers of that time, paid in tithes. God said that formula was to last forever. Num 18.

Doesn't God know that there will be a point when "increase" is not crops and animals, and that the church workers will not be from the tribe of Levi? Still, he instituted the tithe forever. Don't churches still need workers today to process the tithes and offerings that leaders offer to Jesus, and to clean and orgainze the worship materials, music, and instruments?
---aservant on 7/1/15


---David on 7/1/15

Tithe = 1/10

Priests make offerings to God on our behalf because we are too sinful to make any temporal sacrifice and offering directly to God, which is why Jesus (High Priest) makes those sacrifices and offerings on our behalf today.

OT sacrifices no longer cleanses our sin, (Jesus the Lamb offering does) but much of the behavioral and ceremonial law is in effect, which has been mistaught as the entire law is void. Yet, no one tries to void the 10 Commandments.

Jesus is making those offerings to God precisely because of the requirements of the law. Mt 5:18
---aservant on 7/1/15


He doesn't need the money, the church workers need it for their wages, yet he terms the tithe and offerings as His. Mal 3:8-10 --aservant

Aservant
You show me all these scriptures, but not one of says God commands us to give 10% of our income to "Church workers".
If I am wrong, show me one scripture in the New Covenant.
---David on 7/1/15


. . . you don't have to do anything, to be the Lords servant . . .
---David on 6/30/15


1Pet 2:5 - Male female, Spirit inhabited believers, are the Spiritual house (The Church). We are the holy priesthood. We offer up spiritual sacrifices:

1. the sacrifice of faith. Phil. 2:17 "
2. the sacrifice of righteousness. Deu. 33:19
3. the sacrifice of a broken spirit. Psa 51:17
4. the sacrifice of thanksgiving. Psa 107:22
5. the sacrifice of praise. Psa 54:6, Heb 13:15
6. the sacrifice of doing good. Heb. 13:16
7. the sacrifice of communicating to the needs of others. Heb. 13:16, Phil 4:14, 1 Tim 6:18

1Pet 2:9 Please read this
---aservant on 6/30/15


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Aservant
Do you give money to all church denominations . . .
Only to smaller non-denominations that rightly divide the Word of God.

I ask this, because I would love to give to the Lords servants . . . They call service to God, W-O-R-K-S.
---David on 6/30/15


Most don't perform service to God as He prescribes in 1Pt 2:7-25, where we are told to do good works v12 = works of faith (Spiritual offerings). Since it's God's money, you can always ask Him which church He wants you to give your tithes and offerings to.

He doesn't need the money, the church workers need it for their wages, yet he terms the tithe and offerings as His. Mal 3:8-10
---aservant on 6/30/15


Thou shall not bear false witness. I give freely of the possessions with which God has entrusted me.
---micha9344 on 6/29/15


When you stop exercising prerogative and do as commanded, then you will tithe on your increase and stop diverting the inheritance of the church workers.

I have said to you all that my Master wanted me to say. You can talk to Him now, or not. I have no need to talk with you further about tithing.
---aservant on 6/30/15


.... you still want to withhold God's money from His servants that He told you to give it to, i.e., you've determined they need no income for their work.--aservant on 6/29/15

Aservant
Do you give money to all church denominations, or just to the doctrine, you believe to be the Truth?

I ask this, because I would love to give to the Lords servants, but I find many doctrines teach you don't have to do anything, to be the Lords servant. They call service to God, W-O-R-K-S.

I believe God will save his servants, and servants must serve, or they can not call themselves a servant.
---David on 6/30/15


It is up to every individual how they interpret passages of scripture to help them decide how and why they use their tithe in various way. We are answerable to God and I feel that this ("Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the LORD Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it") is what God told me to do. The modern equivalent of the storehouse, I believe, is the church we attend.

If others choose to disagree that is O.K. God knows the heart and He sees all.
---Rita_H on 6/29/15


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/Jesus is currently receiving tithes\
-You are unable to justify this statement without your mishandling of Heb 7:8. Scripture verifies scripture. There must be other verses that tell us this, right?
/You could convert your income so you could tithe crops and animals\
-Wrong. The Levitical tithe was on crops and cattle grown. Now for certain offerings, a specific animal may be needed, and could be bought.
/God provides food, water, air, income, etc. for you.\
-When is the last time you tithed your food, water, or air?
/you still want to withhold God's money from His servants...they need no income for their work.\
Thou shall not bear false witness. I give freely of the possessions with which God has entrusted me.
---micha9344 on 6/29/15


---micha9344 on 6/29/15

None of your "logic" changes this: Jesus is currently receiving tithes, and worshiping the Father with them.

You could convert your income so you could tithe crops and animals, so you would offer something to worship the Father with. But you won't. You don't want to tithe at all.

God provides food, water, air, income, etc. for you. Jesus took a horrific beating and crucifixion for you, and you still want to withhold God's money from His servants that He told you to give it to, i.e., you've determined they need no income for their work.

Mt 12:37 . . . and by thy words thou shalt be condemned
---aservant on 6/29/15


Institute(verb)
1. to set up, establish, organize:
2. to inaugurate, initiate, start:
3. to set in operation:
4. to bring into use or practice:
5. to establish in an office or position.
6. Ecclesiastical. to assign to or invest with a spiritual charge, as of a parish.
None of these happened before God through Moses "instituted" the Levitical tithing of crops and cattle in Lev 27.
No matter how many here use general verses to try to bind Christians under Levitical law, the fact remains that our giving is freewill and of the Spirit, not compulsory, nor required.
/He can tell you what to do with His money...\-aservant on 6/28/15
Luke 20:25
Luke 16:13
---micha9344 on 6/29/15


God never told me to tithe money to a church.
---learner2 on 6/29/15


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Yes, it belongs to God, not any church..
---learner2 on 6/28/15


And because the money and you belong to God, He can tell you what to do with His money, e.g., tithes and offerings, and with your (i.e., His) life.
---aservant on 6/28/15


- 2 -

Lev 25:23 The land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants.

Hag 2:8 The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the Lord Almighty.

1 Cor 6:19-20 You are not your own, you were bought at a price.

Dt 8:18 Remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth.

This is a primary reason he expects tithes. We are tenants.
---aservant on 6/28/15


Yes, it belongs to God, not any church..
---learner2 on 6/28/15


- 1 -

This doesn't mean we can't serve God with our money . . .
---David on 6/26/15


Maybe this explains this heavy resistance to tithing. Respectfully, none of the money is yours. God owns you, your money, your land, your children, everything in and on the earth does God own.

Ps 24:1 (CEV) The earth and everything on it belong to the LORD. The world and its people belong to him.
Ps 24:1 (BBE) The earth is the Lord's, with all its wealth, the world and all the people living in it.
---aservant on 6/28/15


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If all Christians tithed to their churches, their churches would have more money than they could ever use and would be ultimately corrupted by it.
---learner2 on 6/27/15


Strongaxe
There are many false teachings, like "Tithing" in the church, which God will prove false to folks, if only those folks are willing to listen to God.

I tell folks, take 10% of your money and give it to your church, and the next week, take 10% of your money and buy as many $25 gift certificates at WalMart your 10% will buy.

Then take the gift cards and give them to folks who need food, or clothing. Those folks God puts into your mind to give. And when these acts fill them with Joy, a joy they do not receive by paying a Tithe, and when God blesses their lives as he hasn't in their past, then they will learn the Truth.

I use gift cards, because folks will accept it when seen as a gift.
---David on 6/27/15


David:

You said: This doesn't mean we can't serve God with our money. The question is, "How can we, serve God with our money?" Jesus gives us the answer in (Matthew 25:33-46). And notice the reward!

I once heard someone on the radio who had a good sarcastic answer to those who insist that tithing is still for today. He asked them to remember if they used to sing the famous hymn:

I surrender one tenth
I surrender one tenth
One tenth to thee, my blessed savior
I surrender one tenth.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/15


The difference is that we no longer have a high priest on earth who needs our financial support, nor do we even have a levitical priesthood....--StrongAxe

Exactly! The Tithe under the Law, was the Levite inheritance (Numbers 18:24). And since we no longer have a Levitical priesthood, and our High Priest is in Heaven, there is no reason to pay a Tithe.

This doesn't mean we can't serve God with our money. The question is, "How can we, serve God with our money?" Jesus gives us the answer in (Matthew 25:33-46). And notice the reward!
---David on 6/26/15


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David:

You said: Since God used the example of Abraham to establish the New Testament, isn't it conceivable, God also used his example to establish the Law? I believe Abrahams Tithe to Melchizedek, is a good illustration of this.

The difference is that we no longer have a high priest on earth who needs our financial support, nor do we even have a levitical priesthood who is forbidden to inherit property, and instead required to rely on our financial support.
---StrongAxe on 6/25/15


I can surmise that if they did not tithe it was because God gave them no unction.-aservant

Maybe because there was no priest to tithe to?--StrongAxe


Aservant & Strongaxe
Both good answers.
Notice, the life Abraham lived for God, is used as an example in the New Testament. In many ways, the life Abraham lived, a life not being under the Law, in Part, was used to establish the New Testament.

Since God used the example of Abraham to establish the New Testament, isn't it conceivable, God also used his example to establish the Law? I believe Abrahams Tithe to Melchizedek, is a good illustration of this.
---David on 6/25/15


micha9344:

You said: SA, I think you were counting lifespans rather than ages at their son's birth.
According to my calculations, Abram and Shem lived together on Earth about 150 years.


Oops! I was very careful to make a distinction between the years before patriarchs begat the next ones, and how long they lived afterwards (except for Shem, where the part after was what mattered). Unfortunately, when I was copying the numbers into a calculator, I copied both sets by mistake. This explains why half the numbers were around 30 and half were in the hundreds! Corrected, I come up with 290, giving a 210 year overlap.

So, it IS possible Melchizedek was Shem. Wikipedia article on Melchizedek has a lot to say about him.
---StrongAxe on 6/24/15


Aservant
Interesting observation, but can you explain why Isaac and Jacob didn't tithe, before tithing became the Law?
No. Just because Scripture does not state they tithed, does not mean they did not.
---David on 6/24/15

I can surmise that if they did not tithe it was because God gave them no unction. Perhaps Mechisedek was unavailable when they were grown. But, I don't know that they did or did not tithe.
---aservant on 6/24/15


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/12..26: (Counting the generations, Abram was born at least 1858 years later).\-StrongAxe on 6/23/15
SA, I think you were counting lifespans rather than ages at their son's birth.
According to my calculations, Abram and Shem lived together on Earth about 150 years.
Shem died in 502AF(after the flood)
Abraham was born in 352AF and died in 527AF
Abram's father, Terah and Noah were on the Earth together 128 years.
It is possible that Melchizedek could be Shem, but there is nothing substantiating this claim.
This theory would make Hebrews false.
---micha9344 on 6/24/15


StrongAxe, I would ask you to check again. Shem was indeed still alive.
---learner2 on 6/24/15


David:

You said: Interesting observation, but can you explain why Isaac and Jacob didn't tithe, before tithing became the Law?

Maybe because there was no priest to tithe to? Melchizedek is only ever encountered once. If he were still around, there would have been no need for a levitical priesthood later.
---StrongAxe on 6/24/15


learner2:

You wrote: StrongAxe, you're right. It wasn't Seth. I mean to say Shem.

Genesis 11:10: ... Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
12..26: (Counting the generations, Abram was born at least 1858 years later).

Again, if Shem was dead more than 1358 years when Abram was born, how could he stand before Abraham as Melchizedek?
---StrongAxe on 6/23/15


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Abraham tithed at God's unction. Because it later became Written Law, that shows = it was always God's Law, but not yet written--aservant on 6/22/15

Aservant
Interesting observation, but can you explain why Isaac and Jacob didn't tithe, before tithing became the Law?
---David on 6/24/15


Melchizedek had no parents as aservant wrote, but he isn't Jesus. But like Psalms 110 states.
Remember Melchizedek as high priest offered bread and wine.
Genesis 14:18
Only one Person used bread and wine as a blessing and a high Priest: JESUS CHRIST.

No one knows who Melchizedek is or where he came from.
Just like the Jewish people didn't know where Jesus came from. Mark 6:1-3
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/23/15


StrongAxe, you're right. It wasn't Seth. I mean to say Shem.
---learner2 on 6/23/15


learner2:

You said: Melchizedek was Seth.

Considering that Seth lived and died before Noah's flood, and Melchizedek lived afterwards and had no end, how can they possibly be the same person?

Seth lived 105 years. His 5th-generation descendent Methuselah lived 969 years and wasn't on the Ark (it looks like he died in the same year as the flood), so even if each of the children was begotten as early as age of 15, it means Seth was over 900 years in the grave before the flood happened.
---StrongAxe on 6/23/15


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Melchizedek is not Jesus.
---Cluny on 6/22/15


Heb 7:1 . . . Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God . . .
Heb 7:2 . . . King of righteousness, . . . King of peace,
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, (describes His Spirit: can't describe His flesh) but made like unto the Son of God, (was patterned after the real High Priest, Jesus) abideth a priest continually.

Same Spirit = same Spiritual person
---aservant on 6/22/15


Melchizedek was Seth.
---learner2 on 6/22/15


Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils (Hebrews 7:4), of what he earned, not a tenth of his possessions. The other 90% was given back to the owners. It wasn't required of Abraham to continuslly tithe, just that one time. But was there "tithing" before Abraham? Could you consider sacrafices a tithe? Did Cain and Able tithe? As for the New Testament, it does not require tithing but free will giving what one gives from the heart.
---Steveng on 6/22/15


\\The passage is about Melchizedek (Jesus) receiving tithes (before the Law was written). \\

Melchizedek is not Jesus.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/22/15


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From: Helping the Poor

. . . so the Law of Tithing did not yet exist.

. . . you use (Hebrews 8:3), to show we are to pay a Tithe to Jesus Christ, by showing us he is ordained to offer us Gifts?
---David on 6/21/15


Abraham tithed at God's unction. Because it later became Written Law, that shows = it was always God's Law, but not yet written, just like the 10 Commandments were not yet written. You have rules (laws) in your house that are not written.

Heb 8:3 Jesus is now the High Priest who must have something to offer and worship the Father with = our tithes and offerings.

No point in having a High Priest if he is not making offerings.
---aservant on 6/22/15


From: Helping the Poor

What Bible version do you use?
---Glenn on 6/21/15


Primarily KJV. The passage is about Melchizedek (Jesus) receiving tithes (before the Law was written). Heb 7:18 does not apply. Num 18 shows the tithe is by ordinance forever, presumably because there will be church workers ("Levites") forever.

(KJV) Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes, but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

(CEV), (EMTV), (JUB), (ERV) and other versions seem to be in agreement.

The 10 commandments are a function of the Law, but the tithe was before the Law and was not born of the Law.
---aservant on 6/22/15


Tithes were collected, but since there was no law about it, they were not mandatory.
---learner2 on 6/21/15


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