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Did David Go To Heaven

David had many concubines. Can he live in willful sin and go to Heaven when 1 Cor.6:9 tells of those who will not and reflects the example of David? The question is really what's acceptable repentance? The Bible says we can't live in willful sin and we can fall from Grace.

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 ---anthony on 7/5/15
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If you have a willing heart and you ask forgiveness from the Lord you will be forgiven. But you have to be trying to live a good Christian Life everyday. you can't go around committing sins knowing how wrong it is figuring you can just ask forgiveness and it will be alright.It's different if you are sincere and mess up. but doing something a sin just because you can is not having a willing heart. now don't get me wrong God forgives but he also judges so when you're standing before him you need to be very sure you can explain why you should enter the kingdom of heaven
---Lee on 5/19/16


"The question is really what's acceptable repentance?"

An empowered turn "from darkness to light, from the power of Satan unto God." From to darkness of the world unto the light found only in the Son. From the kingdom of this world to the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ.
---Josef on 7/26/15


Perhaps it's because God doesn't hate it as much as society does?
---StrongAxe on 7/23/15

In GOD's example, we see GOD married to all of Israel. Jer 3:14.
Composed of 12 different individual trees, 13 in Ephraim and Manasseh counted as one. All considered one family one wife.
Even while being counted as one wife, it would be divided into two parts in individuality.
He divorced/put away the The Northern House of Ten "wall" of separation in that Judah/Benjamin was not divorced at that time.
Jer_3:8 I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
---Trav on 7/23/15


anthony:

You asked: Now I'm wondering about Genesis 2:24 One man, one woman, and how is it that God seemingly condones polygamy as in the verses given prior in this blog?

There are several places where "one man one woman" is good, but none where "one man two women" is bad. Many patriarchs had multiple wives, but were not condemned by prophets who condemned other sins. Paul said bishops should be "men of one wife", which would not be necessary if ALL Christian men should be "of one wife".

Monogamy was common among Jews 2000 years ago and Christians later, but you won't find commandments to that effect in the Bible. Perhaps it's because God doesn't hate it as much as society does?
---StrongAxe on 7/23/15


StrongAxe, I've received some good input to my question. Now I'm wondering about Genesis 2:24 One man, one woman, and how is it that God seemingly condones polygamy as in the verses given prior in this blog?
---anthony on 7/22/15




anthony:

As you said, we must accept it all, so they apply the way they seem to apply - i.e. we must avoid doing those things that are mentioned, or else risk eternal peril.

We must also accept other scriptures. God forgives sin, so even people who do any of these things can be forgiven.

Finally, these verses are in the future tense, which means we can't use them alone to retroactively judge those who went before. Note that many of the things mentioned here were already illegal under the Law, so the Law could judge those who did them. David was judged for Bathsheba, and later forgiven.
---StrongAxe on 7/11/15


\\So to the root of my question initially, how do these verses and Galatians 5:19-21 apply to David, also to me, and everyone?\\

Those verses do not apply to David and his official marriages and concubines.

You may not like the answer you're getting but there it is.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/11/15


StongAxe, Okay even though 1 Cor 6:9,10 doesn't mention David, we must take the whole of Scripture as Perfect with no contradictions. So to the root of my question initially, how do these verses and Galatians 5:19-21 apply to David, also to me, and everyone?
---anthony on 7/11/15


Anthony
Shhh...my wife doesn't know about my concubines (LOL)

Seriously though, when you come to believe something you have read in the Bible is the Truth, make sure that Truth is not in conflict with other biblical writers. If it is, it is not the Truth.

For instance, read (Romans 2:5-6). Many churches do not read or teach this passage. Why? It's because it conflicts with what they have come to believe about "Works" and "Salvation".
---David on 7/11/15


anthony:

You asked: David had many concubines. Can he live in willful sin and go to Heaven when 1 Cor.6:9 tells of those who will not and reflects the example of David?

1 Co 6:9 does not mention David or concubinage. Concubinage was a lesser, but accepted, form of marriage. In modern societies, we have three common use (church, civil, and common law marriages), and Mormons have a fourth (temple marriage). Hebrew (like German) does not have words "husband" and "wife", "man" and "woman" are used.

While prophets railed against sins of David and others, none complained about polygamy or concubinage (except Solomon, and that was due to his worshiping his wives' gods).
---StrongAxe on 7/10/15




anthony, common sense should tell you that you cannot apply a Biblical precept to someone who died before the precept was given.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/10/15


cluny I'm not valuing your opinion due to spite. I wish you the best. I'd like to not go back and forth.
---anthony on 7/9/15


\\Unfortunately you're making my point.Again, it's not about my being right or wrong, it's about humbly trying to learn God's Word.
---anthony on 7/9/15\\

Sounds to me more likely that you're trying to teach it, and are getting very upset that nobody's agreeing with you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/9/15


What does 1 Cor. 6:9 and Galatians 5:19-21 mean?
---anthony on 7/9/15


Gal 5:19-21 These are the behaviors and habits of folks who do not obey the Spirit of God. They are seeking and doing what their flesh wants to do, common to almost all humans, which is the opposite of what God wants them to do.

1Cor 6:9-10 These specified behaviors will not be accepted as worthy of inheriting Heaven. Those who continually practice these behaviors are rejected by God.
---aservant on 7/9/15


Okay everyone, this is getting away from my original question. I'm not sure yet how to begin a new blog so let me ask this as it was mentioned in part of my original question: What does 1 Cor. 6:9 and Galatians 5:19-21 mean?
---anthony on 7/9/15


micha, It does matter what a person does or doesn't do. It is how they determine their own fate. If we obey GOD, then, through HIS Son, we enter Heaven. If we disobey GOD, and reject HIS Statutes and HIS Son, and choose sin, we perish in Hell.

GOD tells each of us to CHOOSE. To make a choice. To choose Life instead of Death (Eternal Damnation).

DEUTERONOMY 30:19
---Gordon on 7/9/15


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---anthony on 7/8/15

I think you are a serious seeker.

- Yes, David went to Heaven. Man after God's own heart. Acts 13:22, 1Kg 15:3, 15:5
- Did not live in willful sin - 1Kg 15:5. No sin by being married.
- Good deeds don't get you in heaven. Bad deeds don't keep you out - Read all of Rom 9. God has the final decision - Jn 6:44.
- Acceptable repentance = repentance unto life - Acts 11:18, 2Cor 7:10
- Fall from Grace results from rejection of Jesus as your "path" to Heaven - Gal 5:2
---aservant on 7/9/15


---anthony on 7/8/15

I think you are a serious seeker.

- Yes, David went to Heaven. Man after God's own heart. Acts 13:22, 1Kg 15:3, 15:5
- Did not live in willful sin - 1Kg 15:5. No sin by being married.
- Good deeds don't get you in heaven. Bad deeds don't keep you out - Read all of Rom 9. God has the final decision - Jn 6:44.
- Acceptable repentance = repentance unto life - Acts 11:18, 2Cor 7:10
- Fall from Grace results from rejection of Jesus as your path to Heaven - Gal 5:2

In these blogs, iron sharpens iron. The hammer slams into the hot metal, reshaping the metal. Not a gentle process. Please don't get offended. Confrontation is normal, and you will learn.
---aservant on 7/9/15


micha3944:

You said: Concerning polygamy: a man can only leave his parents once.

If this argument can be used to forbid polygamy, it must also be used to forbid re-marriage after widowhood, which Paul himself commanded for young widows - so it doesn't work.
---StrongAxe on 7/9/15


It is not about what David did or didn't do: It is about Who God is and His relationship to David.
It is God Who decides by His standard. Since no one can meet His standard, how can we, as imperfect humans, decide the fate of another?
Some verses come to mind?
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Concerning polygamy: a man can only leave his parents once, it's hard to cling to just one partner, and the 2 shall be 1 gets very confusing otherwise.
Gen 2:24, Mark 10:8, Eph 5:31-32
---micha9344 on 7/9/15


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Unfortunately you're making my point.Again, it's not about my being right or wrong, it's about humbly trying to learn God's Word.
---anthony on 7/9/15


\\it seems there's too much discouragement here with almost everyone trying to convince me of why I'm wrong.\\

Maybe you really ARE wrong, anthony.

Did that occur to you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/8/15


anthony:

You said: it seems there's too much discouragement here with almost everyone trying to convince me of why I'm wrong. I just needed insight for myself and to help others.

If I have been doing that, I'm sorry, that was not my intention.

Unfortunately, there are many people who claim to be bible-believing Christians who believe many things the Bible never teaches (which is fine, but shaky), but also believe that those things ARE taught in the Bible (which is incorrect, and therefore theologically dangerous).

What I do is to point out things the Bible says (by quoting chapter and verse), or things that it never says. By learning what the Bible actually says and doesn't say, we can better understand it.
---StrongAxe on 7/8/15


. . .it seems there's too much discouragement here . . .
---anthony on 7/8/15


No one here is trying to discourage you. Many of God's men were polygamists - Abraham, Moses, David and none of them were rebuked or punished by God for having too many wives.

You don't want to tell others the wrong thing. That would not help you or them. We are trying to correct you so you can be help by using the truth. Monogamous marriage is the ideal, but Spiritually, polygamous marriage is still marriage, and not fornication. Here is a polygamous example of marriage involving God.

See Is 54:5, 62:4-5 God describes His relationship with each of us as Marriage.
---aservant on 7/8/15


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I just ran across this site less than a week ago. Rather than be encouraged, as we're to help each other, it seems there's too much discouragement here with almost everyone trying to convince me of why I'm wrong. I just needed insight for myself and to help others.
---anthony on 7/8/15


anthony:

concubines are sinning.

Please cite chapter and verse where the BIBLE says so.

How can you defend this?

I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying that the Bible nowhere condemns it - two different things.

God said to have one partner.

Nowhere does he say "have ONLY one partner". A man with 0 wives and 1 concubine has only one partner (satisfying this), while a man with 2 wives and 0 concubines has two partners (which you don't seem concerned about). So you aren't arguing about concubinage, but polygamy. Besides, most patriarchs had multiple wives and God never complained about them (except Solomon, and that was because they turned him to other gods).
---StrongAxe on 7/8/15


I'm, at this point, believing that GOD allowed for kings to have many wives and concubines.

When the Prophet Nathan rebuked king David, by GOD's direction, never once was David convicted for having more than one wife and for having concubines.

Instead, GOD said HE had given king David very much, and if he'd wanted more, all David had to do was ask. That, instead, he stole the wife of one of his soldiers, and in turn had him killed.

Yes, David's in Heaven, for he had repented of his sin(s), as shown in his PSALM 51.
---Gordon on 7/8/15


David had many concubines. Can he live in willful sin and go to Heaven . . .
---anthony on 7/5/15

David was rebuked about another's wife, not his own wives or concubines. God gave him even more wives.

2 Sam 12:8 (GW) I gave you your master Saul's house and his wives. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if this weren't enough, I would have given you even more.
---aservant on 7/8/15


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\\ God said to have one partner. This is clear.
\\

Give book, chapter, and verse, please.

Many men in the OT had more than one wife. There was nothing forbidding it.

Furthermore concubines had a recognized, legal, and respectable status, even if inferior to a wife.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/8/15


Anthony,
Though bible "characters" are an example, it is dangerous to build up elaborate doctrines from inference.

Also, 1Corinthians 6:9 says nothing about who will go to heaven. Paul said they will not INHERIT the Kingdom of God.

Do you know what inheritance is? See Colossians 3:23-24
---James_L on 7/8/15


/The Bible says we can't live in willful sin and we can fall from Grace./

I have to disagree with this statement. See Romans 7:15. Also see 1 cor 6:12. Sin has 2 meanings in the Bible. There is sin the action and sin the identity. As a christian sin (action) is what your flesh does against God because we are weak and feable minded. Sin the identity dies when we accept Christ and take on the life of Christ who lives through us, grace.
---Scott1 on 7/8/15


Strong X ..?
Sin is sin and concubines are sinning. How can you defend this? God said to have one partner. This is clear.
---anthony on 7/7/15


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Anthony:

You said: Verses are ask for about concubines and sin: Genesis 2:24 and Mark 10:7

Genesis 2:24: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Mark 10:7: For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife

These mention nothing about concubines nor sin.

If God says "Do X", and never says "Do Y" nor "Don't do Y", you can't automatically assume "Don't do Y". If so, we shouldn't use the internet or drive cars, because God never specifically commanded them.
---StrongAxe on 7/7/15


I'm trying to help prisoners that have sincere questions. So it is very important to be able to answer such questions.
Biblical characters are our examples to live by so we should learn from them as intended.
---anthony on 7/7/15


Only God knows who has been forgiven and who has not. We have all sinned and WE must all, regularly, confess our own sins. God knows if our confessions are sincere or if we are 'play-acting'. He will not be fooled in the way that a priest, or friends, might be.

We, as individuals, need to ensure that WE are right with God and leave the rest to HIM.

It is pointless to question the salvation of biblical characters.
---Rita_H on 7/7/15


Verses are ask for about concubines and sin: Genesis 2:24 and Mark 10:7
---anthony on 7/7/15


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The only sin he committed written in the Bible that I can remember (Glenn, sorry I don't have a Bible with me to give chapter and verse. but you can name them if you have them.) is when he counted his Soldiers and the whole affair Bathsheba and killing of her husband.

He asked for forgiveness.
The famous Psalm 51

Having all those concubines wasn't a sin.
The problem was the women having a chance to turn the Kings from God to idols.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/6/15


I appreciate the two insights by Cluny and Kricket, but my confusion is from the concubines,not wives and you're right on the reasons for the actions but it doesn't make it acceptable unto God.So is David in ongoing sin?
Kricket I understand your comments, but didn't they apply in the O.T. also? Thanks for the posts.
---anthony on 7/6/15


anthony:

Show me where, in scripture (in particular, the Old Testament) that concubinage is considered sin.

The word "concubine" comes from the Latin "concubinium". In Rome, "connubium" was the form of marriage permitted to Roman citizens. "concubinium" was a lesser (but also legally recognized) form of marriage permitted to non-citizens who were not allowed the legal rights of connubium. Other societies, before and since, have also recognized different levels of marriage.
---StrongAxe on 7/6/15


Social conventions of these time meant that treaties and alliances were sealed by kings and other potentates marrying into each others families.

This is one reason why the title "queen" was reserved for the mother of the king.

Don't forget that polygamy was tolerated in the OT. Jacob and Elkanah are among others that had two wives. Even Hagar was considered Abraham's wife in the NT.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 7/6/15


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The scriptures you are referring to about willful sin and falling from grace is in rejecting Jesus Christ sacrifice as sufficient in washing ALL your sins away so then you have done it willfully and there is no more sacrifice for your sins and if you believe you have to add works to be saved you have fallen from grace.
---Kricket on 7/6/15


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