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Ban Divorce

On the day of the SCOTUS ruling, people carried signs that said, "Every child deserves a mother and a father."

Isn't this a good justification to ban divorce, especially if people with the signs really believed it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

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 ---Cluny on 7/5/15
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Nicole, you are obviously using a very new-aged, loose translation of the Bible. I have noticed this before when you posted other scriptures. I would suggest that you get yourself an accurate word for word translation from the original text to English. All accurate translations of Matthew 1:18 say engaged, promised, or betrothed (which means engaged). They were not yet married.
---Jed on 12/7/15


Jed:

A divorce is the dissolution of a marriage contract. A betrothal/engagement was also a legal contract, of sufficient weight that sleeping with an engaged woman was adultery and worthy of death (whereas with an unmarried woman, the man was merely obliged to marry her). So, to dissolve an engagement, a divorce would have been required.

When the Bible uses "put away" and "divorce", they are mostly either used together or interchangeably. Putting a woman away REQUIRED a bill of divorcement - there was no legal way to do one without the other.

In our society, "getting married" and "getting a marriage license" are different, but one requires the other, so they are treated as equivalent.
---StrongAxe on 12/8/15


In any scripture I can think of where the term "put away" is used, it can not justly nor logically mean divorce. Thoughts?--Jed on 12/7/15

In my Bible, Matthew 1:18b-19
...When His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found with child through the Holy Spirit. Joseph her husband, (Betrothed is the same as Marriage in the Jewish faith as a contract. One has to divorce in order to break the contract.) since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame decided to DIVORCE her quietly.

Please write out how your Bible has these verses.
I am only curious.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/7/15


StrongAxe, I would like to go back to the original discussion you and I were having earlier about the meaning of "put away". As I was reading up on the Christmas story, it occurred to me that when Joseph heard of Mary's pregnancy, his first thought was to put her away in secret. That would be contradictory if "put away" really means divorce, since Joseph and Mary weren't even yet married at this time. This is another example where "put away" could only mean just that: "put away", as in to separate, to leave, to abandon, etc. In any scripture I can think of where the term "put away" is used, it can not justly nor logically mean divorce. Thoughts?
---Jed on 12/7/15


Yes StrongAxe, but why don't you give Jed a Man to Man talk about judging others instead?

Everyone always goes off topic on CN

As for President Obama' blog posted by Leon: Leon has no right to ask others to be nice if he doesn't show kindness first.

Jed and Leon believe they are above others on CN.

They can cut others with their tongues, but cry like a baby when someone returns the same language.

When I said you are not helping I didn't mean you couldn't jump in.

Sorry, that is exactly how it appeared.

I mean you are not literally helping him.

It isn't about marriage.
It's about judging others. As Christians shouldn't Matthew 7:1-2
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/5/15




Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: StrongAxe, you are not helping Jed. It is between him and I.

When two or more people who call themselves Christians are having a cat fight on a blog (especially when it's totally unrelated to the blog topic), it's a matter of concern to everyone here. Similarly, on the "Planned Parenthood Colorado" and "President Obama's Next Job" blogs.
---StrongAxe on 12/5/15


..spent most of this entire thread tooting your own horn. Bragging about how many times you pray, how many days a week you go to mass, how you gave up---Jed

No bragging. You claim I am a Christian by name only.
So since you DON'T KNOW MY HEART AS JESUS DOES.

I needed to know what or how a REAL Christian worship Jesus?

So, I am telling you how I worship Jesus, and in what I am lacking in since I am only a Christian in name only.

Compare to me, HOW (detail)do you worship Jesus? Since you believe you are a True Christian and I am not.

Stop with the dating part, because dating isn't the mercy works placing me on either side of Jesus. According to Jesus. With the sheep or goats.

Matthew 7:2

---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/15


Nicole, you have spent most of this entire thread tooting your own horn. Bragging about how many times you pray, how many days a week you go to mass, how you gave up a love life... as if any of that stuff somehow makes you a Christian... really? You sound exactly like a Pharisee. You've done so much for God perhaps he should be thanking you? I like to focus attention on what Jesus has done for me. Anything I have done wanes small in comparrison. All your self righteous works are for nothing if your words are pointing other people away from godly living. You say it's okay for Christians to date Muslims. And that is simply wrong. I dont know what you going to mass 6 days a week has to do with any of that.
---Jed on 12/4/15


You're asking him to toot his own horn,..--StrongAxe

StrongAxe, you are not helping Jed. It is between him and I.

//Ahh. I think I get the picture. When you say that he is a "Muslim" and that you are a "Christian", you really mean that you were both secularists wearing the titles of Christian and Muslim. A true Christian or Muslim would not date outside of their faith. Islam and Christianity is completely incompatible.---Jed on 11/27/15

Judgment on me as being a Christian only by name.

So if am following Jesus as He requested, I am asking Jed if he is a true Christian he has to do more than me.
Since according to him I am a Christian by name only.

Matthew 7:2
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote to Jed: What do you do to prove you are just NOT a Christian by name.
It's seems you are since you give NO details.


In Matthew 25, Jesus describes the final judgment. Those he considers the good sheep are those who show compassion to others - NOT those who make a big show of doing so (elsewhere, "Have we not prophesied and done great works in your name?" "Go away from me - I never knew you!"). You're asking him to toot his own horn, which is something Jesus specifically told us NOT to do.
---StrongAxe on 12/3/15




Pharisee Jed, now you are copying my words. You are wasting the 125 word allowance on nonsense.

You carry on like a silly kid.

Just answer the question, or admit you are wrong in judging me as Jesus commanded in Matthew.

Now lets not go backwards.

We were off the topic of dating.

We are on the topic of 'judging', Remember?

Focus.

Lets finish your judgment.

Since you didn't accept giving pennies to the homeless.
I guess you value money more than Jesus. Jesus isn't worth it.

Okay, moving on.

How much of your time do you spend with Jesus daily?

Answer with numbers only.

Once you start speaking with words you go off topic.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/15


Nicole, where did you get the idea that I was mad? Your opinion means nothing to me. You're the one flying off the deep end with angry incoherent attacks. Honestly, I would not have expected such vitriol and hate out of a Nun. I had no idea you folks were such mean and viscous women. And where did you get the idea that I backed down on the dating issue? As I stated earlier, my stance does and will remain the same. Christians do not date Muslims.
---Jed on 12/3/15


Pharisee Jed, this is between you and I. No one else.

No one else judge me to be a Christian in name only but YOU.

//I am actually doing God's work out here in the real world among the lost...--Jed

Vague again. It is called 'Carrying your Cross Daily'. Don't be a cry baby.
What are you doing? Handing out pennies to homeless people?

At least you finally dropped the dating issue. We are making progress.

You are mad because you can't take the heat when your judgment is turned on you.

Stay on topic. Be specific.

What do you do to prove you are just NOT a Christian by name.
It's seems you are since you give NO details.

Stop trying to get other people to debate for you.

Be a Man.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/15


Lol Nicole. Wait, you don't actually think that any of that self righteous religious rituals actually make you a better Christian, do you? Jesus doesn't need your noise. While you are wasting time sitting in church six days a week beating on your chest and going through your rituals like the Pharisees in the comfort aaand seclusion of a church, I am actually doing God's work out here in the real world among the lost where I am subject to attacks of the world. I guess you think we should applaud you for all your prayers and time spent in church and on the internet.
---Jed on 12/3/15


I already answered your question several posts ago. And then pointed it out again in my next post.--Jed

No you didn't Pharisee Jed, because you would have re-posted it if you did instead of reposting YOUR OPINION.

Since you refuse to give up your love life for Jesus, lets move on.

Since I am a Christian only by name, let see how you compare with worship service to my worship service.

I go to Mass (Church) 6 days a week. Recollection (Retreat) Monthly. YOU?

Not counting daily Scripture reading or mediation.
Just like your Sunday and Wednesday night (If you go) Services is what I am speaking about.

Or do you just get up in your PJ's drinking coffee praising God in your own comfort zone?
Matthew 7:2
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/15


Jed:

You said: Marriage was God's idea. It's a very good thing.

Correct. If you read the creation accounts in Genesis, God created this and that, and in each case, he saw that it was good. What was the very first thing in the Bible that was NOT good? "It is not good that man should be alone".
---StrongAxe on 12/3/15


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Nichole, I already answered your question several posts ago. And then pointed it out again in my next post. I'm sorry if you missed both of those posts. You say you gave up your love life, yet you had previously said that you only had one real boyfriend in your life (the Muslim one) who left you and married your friend. What a love life you gave up! Like I said, it's easy to say you gave up something you never had. I too have given my love life over to Christ, by not dating outside of my faith.
---Jed on 12/2/15



If I gave up the marriage bed for Jesus and only a Christian by name what are you since you still have a love life?

---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/15


You sound very bitter about it. Did someone force you to do this? What makes you think you gave up marriage for Jesus? Marriage was God's idea. It's a very good thing. It's not something that anyone has to give up to be a Christian. It's very unfortunate if you bought into some unbiblical religious practice to please God, when He never required anyone to do that in the first place.
---Jed on 12/2/15


Wow Nichole, take a chill pill..I stand behind what I said. True Christians should not date outside of their faith.---Jed

That isn't the question. Avoiding the question is your way of CHANGING THE QUESTION.

My chill pill will be YOUR ANSWER! Be a Man and answer.

I don't care about your OPINION of dating non-Christians.
I want you to face your sin of Judging others when Jesus said not to judge. Matthew 7:1-2

If I gave up the marriage bed for Jesus and only a Christian by name what are you since you still have a love life?

FORGET about dating Muslims. You have some strange hatred.
Which is between you and God.

The question ISN'T about dating but JUDGING!

What have you gave up for Jesus?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/15


Wow Nichole, take a chill pill. You're flying off the deep end now. I am not going to say that true Christians should be dating Muslims. That is so wrong for obvious reasons. You obviously haven't submitted too much to God if you think that is okay. I stand behind what I said. True Christians should not date outside of their faith.
---Jed on 12/2/15


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Sorry Strongaxe, but you are missing the whole point.

Jed judged me against what Jesus instructed us in Matthew 7:1. In V 2 Jesus states the SAME MEASUREMENT will be placed on the one judging WRONGLY.

So, since Jed posted I was a Christian by NAME ONLY, and I proved I wasn't because I gave up the marriage bed for Jesus as in Matthew 19.

So, now Jed has to top that one. Because if he can't then he ISN'T even a Christian by NAME.

You shouldn't judge because you don't have all the FACTS.

Jed needs to learn that.

I still waiting Jed on your answer.
No hide behind Strongaxe.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote to Jed: I GAVE UP a love life, why didn't you?

After Jesus spoke about divorce, Matthew 19:10-11:
His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

Paul also said it was better to marry than to burn. Some are given the gift of being able to be endure lifelong celibacy. Most aren't. If they were, all Christian nations would be desolate within one generation.

In other words: It's coming right back at you BABY!

Jesus said to turn the other cheek. If someone dishes it out to you, just dishing it back lowers you to his level.
---StrongAxe on 12/2/15


Jed, you started this and now you are going to finish it!

You Judge me FIRST as only wearing the name Christian and I PROVED I didn't by telling you WHAT I did for Jesus.

//..I also submit to him my lifestyle, my social life, my love life, thoughts, opinions, and actions.---Jed//

Big deal! So is everyone on CN.
You want a prize?

I GAVE UP a love life, why didn't you?

Jesus isn't enough for you?

Now ANSWER THE QUESTION specifically!

This is what happens when you Judged me without JUST caused.

MATTHEW 7:2
For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the MEASURE with which you MEASURE will be MEASURED out to you.

In other words: It's coming right back at you BABY!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/15


Jed:

You said: Why would I do that when the Bible specifically tells me to judge right from wrong?

The Bible says both, and both are correct. They are not contradictory, but one must discern the area between them. We must judge things, butpeople at our own peril.

If someone commits a sin, we don't judge him. If someone teaches others to sin, we judge that teaching. If we are unsure whether to accept a teaching for ourselves, we must judge that teaching also.

Similarly, if people teach one thing but do another, we judge the hypocrisy of what they say. Jesus dined with prostitutes and thieves, but condemned Pharisees. Both were sinners, but the latter said they weren't.
---StrongAxe on 12/1/15


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Jed, are you still having trouble think what you have don for Jesus?---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/15


Apparently you missed my last post.

Just stop judging others.

Why would I do that when the Bible specifically tells me to judge right from wrong? Isn't that the purpose of these blogs? Why are you here?

Only Jesus knows my heart.

Try Matthew 7:16-20


You see this isn't want Jesus wants of us. Matthew 7:1-2

Ah yes. The favored verse of those looking to excuse their sinful lifestyle. "Judge not, lest you be judged".

Nichole, twist not scripture, lest you be like Satan.
---Jed on 12/1/15


Jed, are you still having trouble think what you have don for Jesus?

Well, start today.

Just stop judging others.

Only Jesus knows my heart.

I guess due to the lack of response on proving you are not wearing the Christian has now made you a Christian in name only.

You see this isn't want Jesus wants of us. Matthew 7:1-2
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/15


Nichole, I too left my family and have given everything to Jesus, although I didn't become a Muslim dating Nun. (???) Perhaps it is easier for folks that never had much to sacrifice. I did. But more importantly than material things, I also submit to him my lifestyle, my social life, my love life, thoughts, opinions, and actions. Why a Christian woman would date a Satanist, Buddhist, Muslim, or any other satanic false religion is beyond me. What fellowship has light with darkness? Do you do any scripture reading in the convent?
---Jed on 11/30/15


Jed, you accused me of being a Secularist just because I dated a Muslim. Stating I only wore the Christian name:

//that you are a "Christian", you really mean that you were both secularists wearing the titles of Christian and Muslim.---Jed 11/27/15//

I proved I FOLLOWED JESUS no matter what.
I don't just say I am a Christian. I did what Jesus said to the young rich man: sell everything and follow Him.

STOP avoiding the question.

I told you WHAT I gave up for Jesus.
What did you give up for Jesus proving you are NOT just WEARING the name 'Christian'?

That's why Jesus told us not to Judge!

It get's you into trouble!

Please ANSWER the question above.
WHAT DID YOU GIVE UP FOR JESUS?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/15


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There is a saying: Those are accuse someone of something is guilty of the very same thing they accused the other. ---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/15


Who says that? That's doesn't even make sense.

Or are you a Secularist wearing Christian in name?


Well, I don't date Muslims, or anyone outside of my faith for that matter, including liberals posing as Christians. So...
---Jed on 11/28/15


you really mean that you were both secularists wearing the titles of Christian and Muslim. A true Christian or Muslim would not date outside of their faith.---Jed on 11/27/15

4 years later on Dec 3, 1997, I sold EVERYTHING, LEFT Father, Mother, Brother and Sister for Jesus Christ!
I became a Religious (Nun) for Jesus.

I came home on Jan 15, 2004 due to Illness, and forced out by my Doctor at that.

There is a saying: Those are accuse someone of something is guilty of the very same thing they accused the other.

So Jed, tell me:

What did you gave up for Jesus?

Or are you a Secularist wearing Christian in name?

Matthew 7:1-2
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/15


Amen Jed, I agree with what you wrote on 11/27/15.

When I was growing up, there were many who had a crush on me but I wouldn't date them because they weren't Christian.

The one I settled for, some say is homely, but she has.been good to and for me.

I will die for her!!!!
---Rob on 11/28/15



You do know there are all kinds of Muslims?
Just like there are all kinds of Christians...

I explained to him that there are Thousands of different Christians who states Jesus is Lord.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/15


Ahh. I think I get the picture. When you say that he is a "Muslim" and that you are a "Christian", you really mean that you were both secularists wearing the titles of Christian and Muslim. A true Christian or Muslim would not date outside of their faith. Islam and Christianity is completely incompatible.
---Jed on 11/27/15


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I'm surprised that a Muslim would date or marry a Christian since the Christians are their bona fide enemies---Ruthanna

Every non-Muslims are bona fide enemies to the extreme Muslims.

You do know there are all kinds of Muslims?
Just like there are all kinds of Christians.

My boyfriend didn't know about Protestants until he came to America. He was surprised.
He thought all Christians were either Catholics and Orthodox.

He know about the disagreements between us, but shock to know the whole lot of Christians called Protestants.

I explained to him that there are Thousands of different Christians who states Jesus is Lord.

Trust me, many Muslims will date a lady and ask later about their religion.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/15


Sorry. That was meant for a different blog discussion. Ooops. :/
---Ruthanna on 11/26/15


Personally, I'm surprised that a Muslim would date or marry a Christian since the Christians are their bona fide enemies according to the Koran per testimony of converted ex-Muslims.
---Ruthanna on 11/26/15


Jed and Micha, you both speak about unequally yoke as if you never ever the WHOLE Bible before.

//2Co 6:14-17 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:---micha

Did you skip the 1st letter Paul wrote to the Corinthians?

I don't know about you all, but I first read the NT in order starting with the Gospels.

1Cor 7:12-13
...If any brother has a wife who is an UNBELIEVER (Muslims included) and she is willing to go on living with him,

{odd it's not the Christian choice, but only if the Non Christian's wishes to continue the marriage}

he should NOT DIVORCE HER, and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever....

In my circle of life, one first DATES a person before marrying them.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/15


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Jed:

You wrote: That KJV is your problem. I recommend you put away that KJV and start reading a more accurate translation.

That is why I had already asked: Which translation would you recommend?

The American Standard Version is the most accurate Bible translation to date.

KJV and ASV are almost identical on these two verses except the last "divorce" changes to "put away". I looked at the original Greek, and the word matches the "put away" in v. 31, but I'm not really a Greek scholar. I would have to also compare it with Greek translations of the OT to see how those passages are rendered. I don't have the time to do that right now, but maybe tomorrow.
---StrongAxe on 11/24/15


StrongAxe, That KJV is your problem. I recommend you put away that KJV and start reading a more accurate translation. The KJV has been proven to have numerous translation errors. There are two places that I know of right off hand in the KJV that incorrectly say "Jesus" when the scriptures are referencing Joshua (Moses' successor). The American Standard Version is the most accurate Bible translation to date.
---Jed on 11/24/15


Jed:

I wrote: Jesus, in Matthew 5:32 SPECIFICALLY FORBIDS it. How is this not a contradiction?

You wrote: No, he forbids putting away. YOU apparently are either using an inaccurate translation, or you are misinterpreting "put away" as divorce.

Which translation would you recommend?

KJV Matthew 5:31-32
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

You keep nitpicking verse 31, but you ignore the end of verse 32.
---StrongAxe on 11/23/15


...When I began actually reading the scriptures, I realized...---Jed on 11/21/15


Understanding "put away" and "divorce" from GOD's perspective becomes more understandable looking at these verses. He married North House of Israel...and "put her away" and "divorced" her.
This North House could only be remarried/widowed if the "Husband" died.
Isa_50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away?...
Jer_3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
---Trav on 11/23/15


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Jed, maybe YOU are the one in error by your misinterpreting "put away" to NOT mean divorce.

Ever think of that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 11/21/15


Yes, I have thought of that. In fact, most of my life I was taught and believed incorrectly as you do, that "put away" and divorce were the same thing. When I began actually reading the scriptures, I realized that those scriptures make no logical sense and are hopelessly redundant if that is the case. But when you read those scriptures with the understanding that "put away" is not divorce, but rather is just what it sounds like... put away, then those scriptures all make perfect logical and moral sense.
---Jed on 11/21/15


\\YOU apparently are either using an inaccurate translation, or you are misinterpreting "put away" as divorce.\\

Jed, maybe YOU are the one in error by your misinterpreting "put away" to NOT mean divorce.

Ever think of that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/15


Jesus, in Matthew 5:32 SPECIFICALLY FORBIDS it. How is this not a contradiction?

No, he forbids putting away. YOU apparently are either using an inaccurate translation, or you are misinterpreting "put away" as divorce.

If put away means divorce, then Matthew 5:31 is redundant and makes no sense. "Whoever shall divorce his wife, let him give her a divorce"???? That makes no sense. But "Whoever shall send away his wife, let him give her a divorce", THAT makes sense. And "every one that putteth away (abandons) his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away (separated) committeth adultery" THAT makes sense.
---Jed on 11/20/15


Jed:

You said: Jesus neither forbade divorce nor remarriage after divorce.

Jesus said: whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery

OK. He didn't forbid it. He just said it was adultery (which was already implicitly forbidden).

Jesus doesn't contradict this at all!

Moses, in Deutronomy 24:2, SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS a divorced woman to re-marry, while Jesus, in Matthew 5:32 SPECIFICALLY FORBIDS it. How is this not a contradiction?

Also, can you find any scriptures where putting a woman away does is different than divorcing her?
---StrongAxe on 11/20/15


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Jed, you seem to be changing Jesus' Words.

Jesus does not allow Divorce for either the husband or wife.

He even said, no one is to separate what God put together which is Marriage.

Living apart is acceptable for safety reasons, but you are still MARRIED.

Divorce granted by Moses was stopped.
Moses is the one who allowed Divorce so she could marry another without it being adultery.
Jesus stopped that.

Jesus is saying the man still have to support the woman even if they are living apart because they are married.

Please break now Matthew 19 sentence by sentence backing your belief of what Jesus is saying, because I don't see how you came to your conclusion.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/15


Putting away always means divorce. Otherwise, anyone who puts away but does not divorce is violating the Law.

EXACTLY! Moses forbid separation without divorce. The reason for this rule was to allow the wife a way out to remarry without committing adultery, rather than be bound to man who has abandoned her. Jesus doesn't contradict this at all! He takes it to the next level by saying not only should the man give his wife a divorce if he puts her away, but he is also responsible if he abandons her and she commits adultery! By giving her a divorce, it allows her to remarry without committing adultery. That makes perfect sense! If put away means divorce, the scriptures are redundant and make no sense at all!
---Jed on 11/20/15


The problem is that many denominations, especially catholics, misinterpret "put away" which is separation, to mean divorce.--Jed on 11/18/15


No Catholics do NOT believe in Divorce. Protestants believe in Divorce.

Separation means exactly what it states.

Live apart, keeping apart from your Spouse.

Separation is not Divorce.

Jesus TOOK AWAY the Divorce system set up by Moses.
Matthew 19.
Jesus couldn't be clearer.

NO Divorce!

Now Annulment means the marriage is invalid which means the marriage NEVER TOOK place. Not Divorce but Invalid.

Like if a Doctor has been practicing medicine for 20 years until the Authorities realized he was NEVER licensed in the first place.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/15


Jed:

Deutronomy 24:1-3, quoted in Matthew 5:31:
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Putting away always means divorce. Otherwise, anyone who puts away but does not divorce is violating the Law.

5:32:
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

But Moses PERMITTED marriage to a divorced woman. Otherwise, the prohibition in Leviticus 21:14 from priests marrying a divorced women makes no sense, since it would already apply to everyone, and would not need to be re-stated.
---StrongAxe on 11/19/15


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StrongAxe, which scripture are you referring to, so that I may help you to understand it. It is unlikely that Jesus was contradicting Moses, since God Himself gave the law to Moses. Usually when Jesus says something like "Moses said this... But I tell you this...", he is not contradicting the position, but rather strengthening it by raising the standard to a more extreme level. Like "Moses said to do such and such, but I say you should do such and such times two!" I suspect that is the case in the verse you are referring to. Not that Jesus was contradicting Moses, but driving the point home by raising the standard even more.
---Jed on 11/19/15


Jed:

You said: Jesus neither forbade divorce nor remarriage after divorce. He forbade remarriage without a divorce during separation (putting away) . He also forbade separation (putting away) without divorce, because it causes adultery.

This was discussed earlier, on another blog. If you assume "putting away" does not mean "divorce", you reach a contradiction in several cases. For example, here, Jesus says "Moses said... But I say...", saying his teaching is DIFFERENT than that of Moses. However, according to Moses, remarriage before divorce WAS ALREADY adultery, so Jesus's teaching would have been be no different.
---StrongAxe on 11/18/15


Jesus neither forbade divorce nor remarriage after divorce. He forbade remarriage without a divorce during separation (putting away) . He also forbade separation (putting away) without divorce, because it causes adultery. The problem is that many denominations, especially catholics, misenterpret "put away" which is separation, to mean divorce. But the Bible has a word for divorce, and that word is "DIVORCE". When you read those scriptures with the understanding that "putting away" is sexual separation, then those verses make perfect sense.
---Jed on 11/18/15


Jesus forbade remarriage after divorce, but he did NOT forbid divorce. Paul also permitted divorce from an unbelieving spouse who was OK with it.---StrongAxe

Yes Jesus did forbade divorce! MATTHEW 19.

Jesus DOESN'T even use the word Divorce. The Pharisee used the word divorce as allowed by Moses.

Jesus told them NO!.

Jesus states invalid marriage.

Which means it never occurred.

Jesus and Paul states if a woman or man marries a DIVORCE person it is adultery.

You can only have an adultery offense if one party is STILL MARRIED.

Cite Scripture from the NT from both Jesus and Paul saying Divorce is okay.
Using the word Divorce.

I swear some of you all are making up Scripture.

---Nicole_Lacey on 11/18/15


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Separation and Divorce isn't the same thing.

Separation is ALLOWED in the RCC for Safety.

Divorce isn't.


Jesus forbade remarriage after divorce, but he did NOT forbid divorce. Paul also permitted divorce from an unbelieving spouse who was OK with it.

Just stay away from your spouse. But you can NOT marry another person while your spouse is ALIVE.

I didn't say otherwise.
---StrongAxe on 11/17/15


Stroneaxe, you are still missing the point.

Separation and Divorce isn't the same thing.

Separation is ALLOWED in the RCC for Safety.

Divorce isn't.

The Separated Parties will just have to live apart and CAN NOT be allowed to remarry another person just because of any abuse.

Just stay away from your spouse. But you can NOT marry another person while your spouse is ALIVE.

The RCC is following Jesus' Command in Matthew 19:6

So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, NO HUMAN BEING MUST SEPARATE.

Only human beings in the RCC.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/17/15


Nicole_Lacey, if your husband was sleeping with every woman he came in contact with do you really believe that the scriptures teach that you have no right to divorce? To use your own words, "Too Bad, Too Sad!!!". Is that really what you and the RCC teach?

Let me say, "If that's what the RCC teaches we will just have to agree to disagree."

If I have misstated your belief please correct me.
---trey on 11/17/15


Nicole_Lacey:

Since you first addressed me with my post and used the Pastor as an example without a name.

I was speaking generically. I had heard of incidents like this in the past, but I can't recall any specific instances.

I am curious to know which Pastor has been charged with co-murder for telling a woman to stay with her abusive husband?

Husbands that beat their wives to death usually do so in anger - manslaughter not murder. Unless a pastor planned for her to die, it might be wrongful death, or manslaughter (depraved indifference) but not murder,

They in turn lie and say their Pastor told them to stay to SAVE FACE.

True, but easily checked by asking the pastor.
---StrongAxe on 11/17/15


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I made it very clear that I was talking about pastors giving bad advice, NOT you (unless you're a pastor who gives bad advice, and I'm pretty sure you're not either of those).---StrongAxe on 11/16/15

Thank you for clarifying it because I didn't see it so clear.
Since you first addressed me with my post and used the Pastor as an example without a name.

Thank you for making sure I understood your post.

I am curious to know which Pastor has been charged with co-murder for telling a woman to stay with her abusive husband?

Some women refuse to LEAVE even though EVERYONE advises her to Leave.
They in turn lie and say their Pastor told them to stay to SAVE FACE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/17/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: That is the lie and distortion. You answered as if I WAS SAYING SHE HAD to STAY and take the abuse. Which I didn't.

I didn't say that. What I said was: There have been cases where woman in that position saught advice from their pastors, who told them they would be sinning if they left, so they stayed with their husbands, who eventually ended up killing them. These women were definitely NOT better off for staying!

I made it very clear that I was talking about pastors giving bad advice, NOT you (unless you're a pastor who gives bad advice, and I'm pretty sure you're not either of those).
---StrongAxe on 11/16/15


Have I lied? Be specific.---StrongAxe

I Wrote this:
Now, if the spouse is harming you then you get a separation. But, you are not free to remarry.---Nicole_Lacey on 7/6/15

You wrote this:
..if a husband is constantly beating and abusing his wife, she will NOT be better staying with him...so they stayed with their husbands, who eventually ended up killing them. These women were definitely NOT better off for staying! God hates divorce, but he hates murder even more.--StrongAxe on 11/14/15

What part of 'leaving' do you not understanding?
How can a husband KILL someone who has left already?

That is the lie and distortion. You answered as if I WAS SAYING SHE HAD to STAY and take the abuse.
Which I didn't.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/16/15


Jed:

You said: As sad and unforunate it is that many children grow up in broken homes with only one parent (as I did), the confusion of forcing a child.to grow up with two same gender parents is even worse. Whereas single parent households are unfortunate, confusing a child like this is along the levels of abuse.

Considering that children don't really understand the relationships between adults, how is (say) a child growing up with two parents of the same gender different (to that child's perception) from growing up with a widowed mother and her live-in aunt (i.e. her mother's sister)? Or a mother an grandmother? Those are also two caretakers of the same gender. How would these be less confusing?
---StrongAxe on 11/16/15


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As sad and unforunate it is that many children grow up in broken homes with only one parent (as I did), the confusion of forcing a child.to grow up with two same gender parents is even worse. Whereas single parent households are unfortunate, confusing a child like this is along the levels of abuse.
---Jed on 11/16/15


Nicole_Lacey:

Can you illuminate, specifically, how I distorted your statement?

The 125-word limit requires severe editing of posts, so frequently one must omit important things (and due to the prohibition against posting multiple messages, one can't split a post in half and post it in two pieces). It's almost as bad as twitter.

Separation means LEAVING THE HUSBAND. BTW women abuse as well.
Why can't you debate honestly?


Yes, but less frequently. And how am I being dishonest? Please be specific.

A beating Husband isn't grounds for Divorce. LEAVE THE MAN!
God also hates those who lies.


Have I lied? Be specific.
---StrongAxe on 11/16/15


Now, if the spouse is harming you then you get a separation.
But, you are not free to remarry. ---Nicole_Lacey on 7/6/15

for example, if a husband is constantly beating and abusing his wife, she will NOT be better staying with him....so they stayed with their husbands, who eventually ended up killing them. These women were definitely NOT better off for staying!
God hates divorce, but he hates murder even more.---StrongAxe on 11/14/15

Why did you leave the above statement out of your post when you DISTORTED my statement????

Separation means LEAVING THE HUSBAND. BTW women abuse as well.
Why can't you debate honestly?

A beating Husband isn't grounds for Divorce. LEAVE THE MAN!
God also hates those who lies.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/15/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: Just because you want someone different is too bad too sad.
You will get over it and at the end be happier you didn't leave.


While that may be true, it's not always true. For example, if a husband is constantly beating and abusing his wife, she will NOT be better staying with him. There have been cases where woman in that position saught advice from their pastors, who told them they would be sinning if they left, so they stayed with their husbands, who eventually ended up killing them. These women were definitely NOT better off for staying!

God hates divorce, but he hates murder even more.
---StrongAxe on 11/14/15


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Better the government not recognize any marriage. The government should only recognize parenthood. Most marriages are unholy unions that never should occur. Women are not virgins before they marry and not virgins for the husband. There is adultery, fornication, and being unequally yoked, and none are true to scripture. Better the government not recognize any marriage.
---yon6878 on 11/13/15


"Isn't this a good justification to ban divorce?" No.
However I would consider it good justification for a ban on remarriage. Every child has a mother and a father, whether they take responsibility or not. "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1Ti 5:8
Providing, and parenting, in every sense of the word, is the responsibility of both parents, whether they are together or not. Together is better, but separately is not bad.
---josef on 7/27/15


If a Christian husband cheats on his wife and, eventually, marries the 'other woman' he's committed at least 2 sins - the cheating and the remarriage. The church might then say "Ah but he has repented so God has forgiven him" but where does this leave the wife? If she remarries later will she be told that the remarriage was sinful and that she must repent. This is a minefield and very unbalanced. Male and female can be reversed around for the purpose of this dilemma as we know that some women cheat also.
---Rita_H on 7/26/15


The Bible bans divorce, in the case of two Christians >

"Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife." (1 Corinthians 7:10-11)

Children of God can be expected to get our Father's correction > Hebrews 12:6-11 > so, if they get into a problem and break up, it is "likely" each will then get into prayer and in God's love they will see how they each have been wrong and need to reconcile. Or else, either one who refuses will not be able to have real love with anyone else, if he or she disobeys our Father's love.
---Bill on 7/6/15


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We don't grant divorces in the Catholic Church because of Matthew 19:1-12

Now, if the spouse is harming you then you get a separation.
But, you are not free to remarry.

People in the West do not take marriage serious, but treat it like a costly dating session.

Just because you want someone different is too bad too sad.
You will get over it and at the end be happier you didn't leave.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/6/15


'So do husbands'
That goes without saying.
---Rita_H on 7/6/15


Kricket said, "Well the ruling is wrong but to say Christians should not get married now is also wrong and this scripture comes to mind.1 Timothy 4:1-3"

He didn't say Christians should not get married. He was talking about re-marriage after divorce.

Ideally,every child should have a father and a mother. However, in some cases, that is not an option. Some parents get divorced and re-married multiple times. Banning re-marriage would act as a deterrent to some of the divorce traffic going through the courts today.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 7/6/15


\\wives deserve to live in a family setting where they are not being beaten\\

So do husbands.

My father left me to the care of a woman he felt was capable of murder and who physically and verbally and emotionally abused me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/6/15


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Yes every child does deserve a mother and a father but wives deserve to live in a family setting where they are not being beaten and children, in an ideal world, should have TWO parents who love them and would never harm them or abandon them.

How would banning divorce make bad parents into good ones?
---Rita_H on 7/6/15


Well the ruling is wrong but to say Christians should not get married now is also wrong and this scripture comes to mind.1 Timothy 4:1-3
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
---Kricket on 7/6/15


Try banning hardness of heart first Cluny.
---Leon on 7/6/15


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