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Forgiven Of Our Sins

Do you believe we are forgiven of our sins, the moment we believe in Jesus Christ, as in (John 3:16), or do you believe we must confess our sins, to be forgiven of sin, as in (1 John 1:9)?

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 ---David on 7/30/15
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Seriously Michael_e???? I believe it's better for all we stick to scripture and not mans lack of understanding it. Even Jesus death buriel and resurrection....YES, 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 is through the Blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT.

Hebrews 13:20-21

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Right here michael_e, even Christian JEWS believe in the death buried and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the Blood of the CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/15

It sounds to me these Christian JEWS understood Jesus DEATH and resurrection better than you do Michael_e.

Hebrews 9:15-17

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.. CALLED...ETERNAL INHERITANCE. as opposed to Earthly Blessings.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/15

Paul teaching here to GENTILES....

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, . THE MYSTERY....that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood:
this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

So where is the Part Paul tells them this is for Earthly Israel only?
---kathr453 on 8/12/15

When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it's speaking of the covenants given to Gods chosen nation. No one today in the dispensation of Grace partakes of the covenants made between Israel and God.
Heb 8:7 first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. (Deut 5:2 Heb 8:13, 12:24, Jere 31:31)
Knowing covenants were given to Israel and Judah Paul wrote (Rom 9:4) concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,
During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive benefits of the redemptive work of Christ on the cross outside of any covenants. By Gods grace we receive eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation.
In the boC there is neither Jew nor Gentile. (Rom 11:32)
---michael_e on 8/11/15

Galatians 3:17

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Actually Samuel,, the Covenant that was conformed before, was not and did not have anything to do with the Law given to Moses, not did it have to do with Israel. Whatever Abraham obeyed, it had nothing to do with the LAW. Abraham believed and obeyed God. One had to do with Isaac, which no law ever required one to sacrifice their son. It's called the obedience of faith. The LAW of FAITH.
---kathr4454 on 8/11/15

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive benefits of the redemptive work of Christ on the cross outside of any covenants. By Gods grace we receive eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation.
Instead of covenant terms of redemption, believers today are of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God (Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10).
Following Paul as he "followed Christ" believing "Christ and him crucified, Paul's gospel believing in the death burial and resurrection (1 Cor 15:1-4) is the answer.
---michael_e on 8/11/15

I believe that repentance and asking for forgiveness go hand in hand. Repenting is not just 'feeling sorry'.

I could bump into someone in the street and cause them to drop what they were carrying and I'd say "I am so sorry". That is not the kind of 'feeling sorry' I mean when we have deliberately sinned.
---Rita_H on 8/11/15

I believe that we are forgiven those sins of which we have repented and are still aware of consciously.--Rita_H on 7/31/15

Do you believe you can repent, without asking God to forgive you of your sins?
---David on 8/11/15

Galatians 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Her we have your JUSTIFICATION, Michael_e. And we also have FAITH, not Law.

Please answer the question Michael_e.......WHAT BOGUS GOSPEL was Paul teaching these poor Gentiles in Galatia? YOU SAY it was NOT the Gospel according to the Mystery????? So now we have a 3rd Gospel?
Or do we just have a michael_e totally confused as to the true meaning of the Mystery, which is CHRIST IN YOU...the SPIRIT of the life of Christ in you..clearly defined in Colossians 1:24-27.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/15

Great points Kathyr. The New Covenant is the everlasting covenant as given to Abraham a Gentile.

But one point GOD had his laws back then and while Abraham broke them a number of times GOD still said of him.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The saved follow GOD's laws.

---Samuelbb7 on 8/11/15

Only according to the mystery of Christ does salvation come without a covenant.

---michael_e on 8/10/15

This statement couldn't be farther from the truth. The EVERLASTING COVENANT was made between Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit before the foundation of the world. Jesus was raised from the dead through the blood of the "everlasting covenant. The covenant with Abraham was the "everlasting" Covenant. <
THE BEREANS searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying was true. What scriptures do you suppose those were michael_e? Galatians clearly shows us salvation is based on the Abrahamic Covenant AKA the everlasting covenant. Based solely on FAITH, stated in Genesis 3:15, demonstrated by Abel.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/15

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament, (AKA COVENANT,) not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Michael_e, I have backed up truth with scripture YOU DENY. Testament and Covenant are used interchangeably.


You don't even believe Paul....tooooo funny!
---kathr4453 on 8/10/15

1 Jn 1:9 is directed to the nation of Israel The twelve apostles of Israels kingdom ministry were able to preach their message of the king and the kingdom before Christ died and resurrected.
Paul received instructions revealed by the resurrected Lord. 2 Tim 2:8 Rom 16:25
Paul preached present salvation according to the mystery.
Only according to the mystery of Christ does salvation come without a covenant.
According to the mystery Paul speaks of salvation without the law being offered freely to all men.
The mystery of Christ is how salvation comes to all without Israel, without covenants, and without law. This hidden wisdom of God in Christ Jesus was kept secret since the world began, but now made known to all nations .
---michael_e on 8/10/15


I think maybe the confusion is the biblical definition of sin and what unbiblical definition of sin.

first, there is a difference between killing and murdering.

Yes, the act of murder is sin,however, if you murdered your neighbor and repented you are a saint, but if you murdered your neighbor and ran to avoid justice to justify your actions then you are a sinner on your way to hell.

You see for those who are truly saved the practice does not define them unlike the sinner because they continue in there actions/sin.
---john9346 on 8/9/15

Romans 8:11-13

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify( PUT TO DEATH ) the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Paul,said I DIE DAILY. How? We cannot die to self by self. Enough of Selfies! The above verses tell us HOW this MYSTERY is at work in us, via THE CROSS. You have to be JOINED to Christ the PERSON by YOU identifying with Him in death and resurrection life.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/15

Ephesians 5: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.. And Peter clearly states " being partakers of His divine nature", which can only be possible by being JOINED together with Him. Romans 7 again make this known. The Jews must die to the Law to be JOINED to another, Jesus Christ.

Only VIA "THE CROSS" can you be JOINED together with Christ, making up THE CHURCH aka The BOC. The BOC Is not joined to "the Blood" we are joined to THE PERSON. This is THE MYSTERY....CHRIST IN YOU.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/15

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David, the moment we believe in Jesus will be followed with the understanding of WHY He died. What we learn soon after that depends on the teaching we have. To truly repent needs our understanding of Christ having suffered in OUR place and that HE took OUR punishment. Once we understand all that we 'desire' to repent and thank Him for doing that for us PERSONALLY. That is usually the point when true repentance comes.

Repentance comes with sorrow at the thought of what Jesus suffered for US.

Without the understanding of what Christ went through FOR US we are more likely to repeat our sins. His agony should never be far from our thoughts, especially when we feel tempted to sin.
---Rita_H on 8/9/15

Later the ascended Lord revealed the mystery of the cross to Paul and offered free justification to all men on the merits of his blood on the cross.
---michael_e on 8/7/15.

JUSTIFICATION by faith was NEVER a mystery. Even Abel's sacrifice pointed to Jesus blood, where he was justified by faith. Hebrews 11 will explain. BUT Colossians 1 says nothing about that being the MYSTERY. CHRIST IN YOU is the Mystery. .
"Christ in you" is being baptized into His death and raised a New Creature. TWO entirely different matters. Romans 6-8, Galatians 2:20 and Philippians 3, IS the Mystery at work. and you will see Romans 6-8 and Philippians, Galatians, never once say "the Blood", but points to THE PERSON OF CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/15

Any doctrine, whether Hyper-D, Calvinism, RCC, yes even SDA that leave out the now revealed MYSTERY of Christ in you, and God's work in you of Conforming you to His Image, through the fellowship of His sufferings, is nothing more than a bogus doctrine of CHEAP GRACE no matter how you look at it. Our sanctification is in "the person" of Christ, not Law, as Galatians 2:20-21 so clearly state. Yet it seems this MYSTERY still remains a MYSTERY to so many, who Yes, believe in the Blood, but not the Person of Christ IN YOU. And EATING Him every Mass won't do it either. It's the Spirit of the Life of Christ IN YOU, not the physical pieces of flesh. The LAW too cannot conform you to His death....ONLY submission to THE CROSS CAN.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/15

That's not what Jesus said. (But I've noticed that what Jesus actually said frequently means little on these blogs.) ---Cluny on 8/7/15

Sad, isn't it? Jesus died to bring us the Truth, and many churches have turned what was meant to be the foundation of faith, into a mere garnish on the epistles of Paul.

Can you imagine how enraged Paul would be if he were to discover, how through his epistles, these churches have him complicit in their blasphemy?
---David on 8/9/15

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Interesting Kathyr. I found no disagreements with your last four points. I believe you have a different view on what you mean then I by some words. But I will commend your points and agree with you. You have stated so much truth that I will not lessen your points by nitpicking.

GOD bless and keep you.

---Samuelbb7 on 8/9/15

What you don't understand michael_e, is that Paul clearly breaks down the ABOVE ( CHURCH) and BELOW ( earthly Israel) He does it wonderfully through showing us the difference between Isaac and Ishmael. Something HIDDEN, now revealed. Isaac who was laid on the alter to be sacrificed....all pointed to Jesus death and resurrection. As Isaac was, so are we. Romans 4 will also explain this to you. And so does James! faith without OBEDIENCE of faith is dead. Obedience to the CROSS. And just because the 12 didn't grasp the cross until AFTER Jesus rose from the dead, doesn't mean they didn't understand it at all. They walked with the risen Christ 40 days before He ascended. And you thing all they did was play Go Fish?
---kathr4453 on 8/8/15

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Great verse here. Kingdom Law or the Mosaec Law no one could be justified. The very first JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH, right in Genesis. Abel. Was Abraham JUSTIFIED? Absolutely. And Abraham knew NOTHING about Kingdom Law or even the Law of Moses. Oh but how could Abraham, our father have been Justified when nowhere was any CROSS or Jesus blood spoken of. EXPLAIN PLEASE.

Does Paul teach Gentiles in Galatians that those who are of the faith of Abraham blessed with faithful Abraham, and are Abraham 's seed and HEIRS ACCORDING TO PROMISE? Or was Paul teaching the wrong Gospel to Gentiles in Galatia?
---kathr4453 on 8/8/15

Michael_e, do you understand the meaning of "the preaching of the cross?" Again in Philippians 3 Paul tells us....that I may KNOW Him, and the fellowship OF HIS SUFFERING, and the power of His resurrection, BEING MADE CONFORMABLE TO HIS DEATH". It's The very HEART of the preaching of the CROSS. The Holy Spirit through Peter testifies to this SAME SUFFERING, that ONLY comes via THE CROSS, not via any Kingdom. And the PROMISE to those who share in His sufferings, and the GLORY that is to follow, is the Gospel according to the Mystery, and not any earthly kingdom doctrine found anywhere. Only those CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, can share in the fellowship of His sufferings. Earthly Israel is not required to be CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/15

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Michael_e, it's evident YOU have never experienced the reality of the power of the Cross. It's also evident you also ignore what Paul teaches in Romans 6-8. How many times is BLOOD even stated in Romans 6-8?

You accuse the others also of not preaching the BLOOD? Peter tells us as well we were bought with the precious BLOOD of Christ. The CHURCH, the BOC was purchased with His BLOOD. John preached the BLOOD as well. Is Christ's blood divided? If John and Peter preach the BLOOD, they TOO are preaching the BLOOD of the CROSS. and so is the author of Hebrews.

Your posts continually contradict yourself over and over. And you never address these verses I post. Why, because YOU can't. because you don't understand them.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/15

Acts 20:28 and 1 Peter 1:18-20 again say the same thing, the CHURCH purchased with His Blood, Peter says The same thing.

Michael_e, Paul was not taught something NEW, but only HIDDEN. And what was HIDDEN is now revealed. Paul endlessly quotes from the OT. And if you let the Holy Spirit show you, you will see in the OT, everything having to do with the OT Law of SACRIFICE, pointed to Jesus Christ and HIS death and HIS BLOOD. Hebrews clearly teaches this ....especially Hebrews 10.
Hebrews 12 talk about the CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN. That's the BOC.
But you do need to be Born Again to be a member of the CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN. You said you are NOT Born Again. That's why you are blind.
---kathr453 on 8/8/15

The gospel is found in what Paul calls the preaching of the cross (1 Cor 1:18, 1Cor 15:1-4)).
Surprisingly the 12 walking with Jesus for years, were ignorant of the cross, ( Luke 18:34)
Not only ignorant, but afraid to ask( Mark 9:32)
Yet they had preached for years (Matt 10:1-6)
Understanding the preaching of the cross was revealed first to Paul eliminates confusion.
The disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom and put their faith in Jesus as the Son of God and their king. ( Matt 16).
Later the ascended Lord revealed the mystery of the cross to Paul and offered free justification to all men on the merits of his blood on the cross.
Peter writing to the remnant points to Paul, not James or John (2 Peter 3:15)
---michael_e on 8/7/15

The battle against sin doesn't always mean we are committing that sin but also means we are resisting that sin.--john9346 on 8/7/15

What I'm trying to understand about those who believe sin is not sin, unless it becomes habitual, is How many times do you believe someone has to break the Law, before it is considered habitual?

For example, lets say I get mad and kill my next door neighbor. How many of my neighbors can I kill before God calls murder a sin?

---David on 8/8/15

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1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto "his kingdom" and glory.
( His Kingdom here is the exact same Kingdom Peter speaks of in 2 Peter 1. )
2 Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
---kathr4453 on 8/8/15

Those who understand the BOC know we are the CALLED. Paul again compliments Peter in one of the verses I posted.....PAUL says, those who suffer with Him will also be GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH HIM.

This IS the Mystery, Christ IN YOU, the fellowship of His SUFFERINGS, which Peter again in 1 Peter 4 also speaks of CONCERNING SIN, and how one OVERCOMES SIN. This is the doctrine of THE CROSS, not the Law or even earthly Israel's earthly Kingdom Law.

BUT one must have the indwelling Holy Spirit who brings us to "all" truth.

Michael_e, once you let go of the teachings of MAN, the Lord will open your eyes.......IF you truly desire THE TRUTH. No LIE od of the TRUTH.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/15

\\Sin isn't sin until it is action/practice\\

That's not what Jesus said. (But I've noticed that what Jesus actually said frequently means little on these blogs.)

Jesus actually said that the DESIRE to commit a sin is the same as doing it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/7/15

2 Peter1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
The BOC is the ones CALLED TO GLORY. Colossians 1. The Mystery is Christ in you, THE HOPE OF GLORY.
The Mystery...for the OBEDIENCE Of FAITH.

Earthly Israel is not CALLED TO GLORY, but will only see HIS Glory.

May want to STUDY the definition of GLORY Michael_e.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/15

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Colossians 1:26-27 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

No one should ever be confused about THE MYSTERY. Paul clearly tells us what the MYSTERY IS right here. The ONLY way Christ can be IN YOU is to be Born Again, where we possess the Spirit of the LIFE of Christ IN US. This was NEVER promised to earthly Israel. We will be GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH HIM, partakers of HIS divine nature through His precious PROMISES, according to GRACE, not LAW.
This MYSTERY was first revealed in the 17th chapter of John.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/15


Sin isn't sin until it is action/practice.

if the individual overcomes smoking, they have overcame that sin.

The battle against sin doesn't always mean we are committing that sin but also means we are resisting that sin.

Remember, sin is a continuous love and practice of that which God forbids.
---john9346 on 8/7/15

James, Peter, John and Jude written to the remnant of Israel
The mystery revealed to Paul regarding salvation is the gospel of Christ, (1Cor 15:1-4)justification by grace through faith in Christ as our propitiation (Rom 3:20-26, 15:16, Eph 6:19).
The most important thing to learn in discerning Gods will is to rightly identify and divide the mystery of Christ from what was spoken to the prophets of Israel concerning Christ.
What God had spoken of by the mouth of His prophets since the world began(taught by the 12) is not what God kept secret since the world began(taught by Paul) (Acts 3:21 vs. Rom 16:25). Mixing mystery with the prophecy to Israel leads to confusion.
---michael_e on 8/7/15

Will the person who overcame smoking struggle with another sin, yes, but if they are truly saved they will overcome again and again victory will be theirs...--john9346 on 8/6/15

Overcome again and again?
I'm confused here as to what you believe you have overcome. If your battle is against sin and you continue to sin, what have you overcome exactly?
---David on 8/7/15

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Jesus died not only for our sin, but the sin of the whole world. Does that mean we now see no evidence of sin? There is a difference between SIN and SINS.

But we have Paul's testimony in Romans 7 concerning his own struggle with sin. Does Paul say, hay...don't worry about it folks? NO, but rather gives a SOLUTION to the problem beginning Romans 6 through Romans 8. How does he say the body of sin is destroyed, not washed( two different issues).
We are justified By His Blood, and saved by His life....again two different entities. The BLOOD does not destroy the body of sin in you. ..Romans 6-8 PAUL DETAILS THE GOSPEL OF GRACE ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY. . michael_e always seems to leave out.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/15

True Monk Brendan. I have been an Elder at the side of a sick person and we prayed for them and their forgiveness.

But I am not sick. I go to my High Priest Jesus and confess my sins to him. Then pray for his forgiveness which I know he is happy to do.

1John 2:1,2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

---Samuelbb7 on 8/7/15

Nobody has mentioned James 5 in this discussion, as it speaks of confession, too.

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well, the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

Therefore, we are told to confess our sins in order to continue cooperating with Christ and gaining our salvation.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/6/15


According to the Biblical Definition of sin 1 John 3:1-9.

Sin is a habitual practice like a smoker if that person continues smoking with know willingness to repent that is a sinner.

If the same person a smoker repents that is a saint.

repent means a complete transformation of being.

Will the person who overcame smoking struggle with another sin yes, but if they are truly saved they will overcome again and again victory will be theirs...
---john9346 on 8/6/15

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Col. 1:13-14 the Father "... HATH delivered ...HATH translated us ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins ...." forgiveness of sins is something "we HAVE".
Col 2:12-13 says we ARE, made alive in Christ, and have been forgiven all our sins.
Our sins having been forgiven stands in contrast with trying to live under Mosaic Law
In Christ's earthly ministry (under Law), He told the disciples in Matt 6:14-15, "For IF ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
If we believe Paul's gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4), all our sins have been forgiven.
---michael_e on 8/6/15

Not every habit is sin.---john9346

That's true.
But I wasn't using smoking as an example of sin, I was using it as an example, of a habit.

A believer who denies their sin is a habit, sin which continue from childhood until death, is much like a smoker saying, their smoking is not a habit.

In (John 8:34) Jesus said, "Everyone who sins is a slave of sin." You have a particular sin in your life, a sin you are trying to quit, but you can't.
It's because you are a slave to sin. And you will continue to be it's slave as long as you continue to deny this truth.

---David on 8/6/15

To those who are Born from Above, born Again, begotten of the Father, = SONS, thereby becoming joint heirs with Christ, you will see ALL the NT writers using these words, including Paul. PAUL says in Galatians...." Those BORN OF THE SPIRIT" is just another way of saying all of the above. Hyper= michael_e states the BOC is NOT Born Again, born from above, and is exclusively to the 12 tribes. YET Paul in Romans 6-8 specifically tell is IN DETAIL what it is to be Born again and HOW one is Born again. This mystery of Christ in you ..THE SPIRIT OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST IN YOU, is what being BORN AGAIN MEANS.

It's amazing how BLIND hyper-D's are, DENYING THEIR OWN SALVATION EXPERIENCE thereby denying Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/6/15

Michael_e, You specifically said Jews do need to confess but Gentiles do not? You claim 1 st John is written to Jewish Christians but not the BOC. So are you saying Jewish Christians who ALSO have found forgivness through the Blood have a different set of rules than Gentiles who have found forgivness through the blood? OR are you saying Jews are not part of the BOC?
Only the BOC has passed from death to Life (1st John) through Jesus Christ and being crucified with Him and raised up a New Creature. Earthly Israel has not. 1st John is not to Earthly Israel. You accuse John of Preaching an accursed Gospel which he wrote after Paul died, not during the early part of claim was another Gospel. ...of which it was not.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/15

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Ist John does NOT say, if you confess you sin, THEN you will be forgiven. It says if we confess our sin He is faithful and Just to forgive our sin. WHY is He faithful,and Just to do so? BECAUSE it was through HIS finished work that He CAN do so. No we don't confess to be forgiven, we confess to be CLEANSED...two entirely different matters. If you are in Adultry my Christian friend, you are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP WITH THE LORD. We still have free will, and we can still use our free will to DISOBEY. And if left unchecked, you can SHIPWRECK YOUR FAITH and your walk, so says Paul. The Blood does wash away our sin, but DOES NOT wash away our sin nature. Only the CROSS can do that.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/15


Not every habit is sin.

Biblical Definition of sin

The word is Hamartano it means

to be without a share in
to miss the mark
to err, be mistaken
to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin

Sin is a continuous practice against God's Law.
---john9346 on 8/5/15

Sin is sin and should never be taken ightly (Eph 5:6). Grace doesn't take it lightly because it requires the blood of Christ to pay for our sins.
Why we need not ask God to forgive is that he already has forgiven us. The work is complete. Our conversation to God should be belief and gratitude that he has forgiven us through Christs blood. (Col 1:14)
Asking God to do something he has already done shows lack of faith in his finished work. The response should be thank you. God has already forgiven those who trust the gospel of Christ.( Eph 4:32)
God offers forgiveness, we accept or reject. This is the gospel that saves. This is the ministry of reconciliation. ( 2 Cor 5:19)
---michael_e on 8/5/15

Those who continually confess sins for forgiveness are confessing an inability to rightly divide the ministry the 12 from that of Paul. ---michael_e

Do you also believe Paul was unable to rightly divide it too?
(Romans 1:16)
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
---David on 8/5/15

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Those who continually confess sins for forgiveness are confessing an inability to rightly divide the ministry the 12 from that of Paul.
---michael_e on 8/4/15

Is God double minded the Jews I will be this way, and to Gentiles, I will be that way? Since WE are no longer seen in the flesh in God's eyes, and since one needs to read ALL of 1 John to know that there is this category : children KNOW their sin is forgiven, young men have OVERCOME the evil one and Fathers have KNOWN God from the beginning. Paul calls himself a FATHER. NO OT or ministry to the Jews exclusively say a Jew is an overcomer either, where the Church or Gentile is not. And to be taught such nonsense is a great disservice to the Body of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/15

If we say we have no sin we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The problem is one not being able to discern our POSITION from our POSSESSION. If we are warned to walk in the Spirit SO THAT we do not yield to the flesh, knowing scripture teaches "we can" quench the Spirit, I would be very Leary of anyone teaching you otherwise. This idea that "Love is never having to say your sorry " or admitting YOU FAILED, will NEVER experience what it is to OVERCOME. Because to OVERCOME takes years of OUR FAILURES and our acknowledgement of OUR FAILURES and His chastisement to be partakers of HIS Holiness which leads one to be an overcomer. If you don't KNOW this, your religion is all in your head and not in your daily walk.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/15

The MYSTERY Paul clearly defines in Colossians 1 is CHRIST IN YOU. Paul also tells us we are SONS and HEIRS. Now go back and read 1 st John, and highlight every verse that says SONS and IN HIM, and HE IN YOU. Now some want to teach that there are two totally different entities IN HIM. Yet Ephesians clearly tells us that wall has been broken down and the ONLY ONES IN HIM are the NEW CREATURE, the NEW Creation...the MYSTERY.

Hyper- dispensationalism is a lie from hell not only causing division in the BODY, but teaches division in the BODY.
---kathr453 on 8/5/15

Often overlooked is John writes to the remnant of Israel, describing the law of forgiveness as Lev 26:40-41 and 2 Chron 6:24-30 for that nation.
Many believe they are Israel and follow Peters priesthood and Johns confessional, This undermines the understanding of forgiveness in the dispensation of grace.
Confessions appeals to a covenant promise, not to the finished cross work. If the work is truly finished, why do we need to continually confess for forgiveness?
Those who place faith in the complete cross work, have been forgiven for Christs sake through his blood (Eph 4:32, Rom 3:24-25).
Those who continually confess sins for forgiveness are confessing an inability to rightly divide the ministry the 12 from that of Paul.
---michael_e on 8/4/15

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Strong's applicable definition of sin as used in 1Jo 3:9 is "to miss the mark" [of the high calling of God in Christ] " and so not share in prize". The prize being the salvation of the Father, through the atoning sacrifice of His Son. Which is why for the believer, in Christ, there is no sin. Father made Jesus to be 'sin', as transgressing the law, although He never sinned, so that the believer "might be made the righteousness of God, cleansed from all unrighteousness, in Him". Therefore those renewed and regenerated in their thinking from above, through the indwelling presence of His Spirit, [born of God], subsequently does not sin, and is in fact incapable of 'sinning', or missing His mark.
---joseph on 8/4/15

Yes still smoking even 8 would still be a habit.

Dictionary definition.

1.An action done on a regular basis.
2.An action performed repeatedly and automatically, usually without awareness.

If you hate and refuse to forgive someone that would be a habit.

So it is not the number of times. But whether you live in sin consistently.

Or is living in love your consistent state and occasionally you mess up.

That is the difference between being a Christian and pretending.

We are to die daily to selfishness.

---Samuelbb7 on 8/4/15

"How many sins constitutes a habit? And where are these guidelines?
Excellent question to those who attempt to translate "sin" in 1jo 3:9 as "habitual sin".
---joseph on 8/4/15

Don't pull the verse apart to suit your beliefs.--Nicole_Lacey on 8/3/15

You believe you are saved, why do you believe you are saved? Did you do anything to bring this about?

Remember, 1 John 1:9 says if remember the definition of sin which is a Habitual Practice-john9346

How many sins constitutes a habit? And where are these guidelines?

If I use to smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, but claim I have beat the habit and now only smoke eight cigarettes day, would you still call that a habit?
---David on 8/4/15

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Asking someone to forgive you for your sin puts the responsibility on them, where apologizing for your actions puts the responsibility on you. I believe we are to take responsibility for our sin, admit to it, and repent from it. We KNOW we will be forgiven if we do this, so to ask for forgivness is in a way suggesting you might not be forgiven, showing lack of faith. When we CONFESS OUR SIN, we are not asking for forgivness, but apologizing for our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness. Just as Peters feet needed to be CLEANSED, so do we daily So that HIS LIGHT can shine BRIGHT through us. We have a purpose in this life. To be a LIGHT.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/15

David, please start reading from Matthew 24:1.
Don't pull the verse apart to suit your beliefs.

In your logic, you will never believe Jesus when He returns because of v4-5
"See that on one deceives you. For many will come in my name, saying 'I am the Messiah,' and they will deceive many...

So, how are you to know when the true Messiah comes AGAIN?

Reading and studying the WHOLE Bible in it's true meaning.

Chapter 24 is speaking about the horrible days yet to come. When it comes the days will be shortened. Elect means saved.

V24 great as to decieve, if that were possible, even the elect.

So that is proof that some are Saved before the end.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/3/15

Why would you need to ask for forgiveness for your sins after your conversion, if they have already been forgiven when you come to believe in Jesus Christ?

Because sanctification begins after justification.

Remember, 1 John 1:9 says if remember the definition of sin which is a Habitual Practice.

etting saved
---john9346 on 8/3/15

1 John 1:9 is referring to after conversion in daily living.
---john9346 on 8/2/15

Why would you need to ask for forgiveness for your sins after your conversion, if they have already been forgiven when you come to believe in Jesus Christ?
---David on 8/3/15

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Good points David, Strong Ax.

We should keep our accounts short is how one preacher used to say. When we sin we need to repent asap.

When people say they are saved depending on their theology they mean one of two things.

1. I am in a relationship with my GOD and I am saved.

2. I am once saved always saved and cannot be lost no matter if I am in a relationship with GOD or not.

---Samuelbb7 on 8/3/15

If he doesn't, then anyone who doesn't remember every single sin he has ever committed, and repents of it, is going to hell. Do you believe that?--StrongAxe

In the Lords Prayer, when Jesus taught us how to confess our sins, he said to ask God to forgive us of our trespasses. Jesus did not teach us in this prayer, to go through and list each individual sin we have committed, as done under the Levite Priesthood.

This confession covers all sins committed before the prayer, but not those one will commit in the future as some have been taught to believe. The proof of this is evident in the extreme sensitivity to sin felt after this confession.
---David on 8/3/15


You said: Do you believe God forgives us of sin, when forgiveness is not asked for?

If he doesn't, then anyone who doesn't remember every single sin he has ever committed, and repents of it, is going to hell. Do you believe that? If so, then most of us are doomed (especially those who are old and whose memories start to fail them).
---StrongAxe on 8/2/15

Surely you don't think it is impossible to sin after being Saved?---Nicole_Lacey on 8/1/15

I don't believe anyone living has been saved.
If you have been saved, why would Jesus have said what he did in (Matthew 24:22)?

(Matthew 24:22)
And unless those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elects sake, those days shall be shortened.
---David on 8/2/15

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I John 1:9 for years ( most of Christendom still do) used this verse for believers committing sin. But, actually, this is a salvation verse for Jewish Kingdom believers John is writing too.
James, Peter and John all write to Jews. Gal 2, Paul writing about the Jerusalem counsel (Acts 15)which was some years after Pentecost.
The problem is Law-keeping Kingdom believers were still trying to convince Pauls Gentile believers, under his Gospel of Grace, that they had to practice circumcision and the keeping of Law and Commandments. (Acts 15:1-5) At this Jerusalem counsel, it was agreed that Paul and Barnabas would be apostles of the Gentiles and the 12 would minister to Israel.
---michael_e on 8/2/15

"Do you believe we are forgiven of our sins, the moment we believe in Jesus Christ,"

Yes, from the very moment God by sovereign grace elects someone all sin is forgiven see Jeremiah 31:34, Acts 3:19, Isaiah 43:25, Ephesians 2:8-9, and Romans 5:1.

1 John 1:9 is referring to after conversion in daily living.

good question David.
---john9346 on 8/2/15

I do not believe that if we refuse to ask for forgiveness that GOD will forgive us.

Being unrepentant is a sign that your hearts is far from GOD and you do not love him.

---Samuelbb7 on 8/2/15

It is possible to confess a sin without actually repenting and asking for forgiveness....--Rita_H

Do you believe God forgives us of sin, when forgiveness is not asked for?
---David on 8/2/15

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Yes, but what about the sin you commit a minute after you confess Jesus as Lord and Savior?
That sin is the one that will send you to hell if you refuse to ask forgiveness.

Surely you don't think it is impossible to sin after being Saved?
David, just look at yourself.
Better, look at your name sake.

David's sin was forgiving after he confess to Nathan.
The son born to him died because of his sin AFTER HE CONFESSED THE SIN.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/1/15

David I feel that confession and repentance go hand in hand. We know that we sinned, we confess (sometimes to an individual against whom we sinned and sometimes to God) and then repent (if we are truly sorry for those sins.

It is possible to confess a sin without actually repenting and asking for forgiveness but we'll never have true peace until we 'do the job properly'.

We are far less likely to commit the same sin again when we've gone through all that and sincerely realise what our sin did to others (and God).
---Rita_H on 8/1/15

I believe that we are forgiven those sins of which we have repented and are still aware of consciously. --Rita_H on 7/31/15

Do you believe confession of sin is a part of repentance?

When we come to Jesus we ask forgiveness and turn to him.--Samuelbb7 on 7/31/15

How can it be both? Isn't forgiveness of sin required to be saved? How could you be saved before you confessed your sin, if the forgiveness of sin is needed to be saved?

---David on 8/1/15

David like I said, I acknowledged that I was a sinner in need of salvation when I acknowledged Jesus as Lord and Savior. I also acknowledge that Jesus took that sin upon Himself and freed me from it. As it is written:
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. Isa 43:25
To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him, Dan 9:9
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Luk 1:77
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations. Luk 24:47
Behold the Lamb of God, [who took] away the sin of the world. Jhn 1:29
---josef on 7/31/15

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What I take away from your answer, is you have never confessed your sin before God. Am I reading your post correctly?

If I am, why do you believe God said in (1 John 1:9) he will forgive us of confessed sin?
---David on 7/31/15

I believe that we are forgiven those sins of which we have repented and are still aware of consciously. There are many sins we will have committed long ago for which we never repented but we cannot ask Him to forgive them now (individually)if we have forgotten them ourselves but we can ask Him to forgive those we cannot remember. If there are sins from our past (which we can name) and which still trouble us then we need to ask NOW for them to be forgiven and then we can put them behind us.
---Rita_H on 7/31/15


When we come to Jesus we ask forgiveness and turn to him.

As we walk in life we stumble and fall. We then turn and repent and ask forgiveness again.

Which is why being a Christian is like being married. Think about it.

---Samuelbb7 on 7/31/15

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