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How should Christians react to the US Government using taxpayer money to fund the slaughter and sale of infant body parts?

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 ---jerry6593 on 7/31/15
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\\Cluny: "I know that EGW got a big surprise"

And just how do you KNOW, O prescient one? From your pagan Greek spook theology?\\

Because I'm a Christian and read the Bible.

How was Lazarus (and others) able to come back from the dead at Jesus's command, were there nothing conscious that survived physical death?

But if the "dead know nothing," it means that since you know nothing, you are dead.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/22/15


StrongAxe: Sorry about the confusion, I thought you would make the connection about the apparition of Samuel and the quoted scripture:

"neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."



Cluny: "I know that EGW got a big surprise"

And just how do you KNOW, O prescient one? From your pagan Greek spook theology?



---jerry6593 on 8/22/15


I know that EGW got a big surprise when she died and found out there was no such thing as soul sleep.

So will you.

I sincerely hope that her and your other surprises will be pleasant ones.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/21/15


jerry6593:

You said: You do believe the Bible, don't you?

Yes. What is your point? Could you be more specific (i.e. why did you quote those verses?)
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


StrongAxe: Have you ever read the following?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

You do believe the Bible, don't you?


---jerry6593 on 8/21/15




Cluny you are taking this verse out of context.

Jesus is the midst of a discussion on the Resurrections. He is discussing the Resurrection and how it will happen. With those who believe the dead stat dead. Instead of speaking of a the dead being alive. He argues for their resurrection.


Mat 22:29-31

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying

Then comes the verse you quote Cluny.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/15


\\Why pray to a dead person?
---Samuelbb7 on 8/19/15\\

In mentioning the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Jesus said that God is the God of the LIVING.

Therefore, A, I, and J are still alive.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/20/15


Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the witch conjured up anything.
It was Samuel that was brought up for 2 reasons.
-The Bible says it was Samuel.
1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul...
1Sa 28:16 Then said Samuel...
-Samuel's prophecy came true.
1Sa 28:19 ...to morrow [shalt] thou and thy sons [be] with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
1Sa 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.
-He was not a demon.
---micha9344 on 8/20/15


jerry6593

You said: The conjuring of the apparition of Samuel by the Witch of Endor was, like modern conjuring, an appearance by a demon impersonating Samuel.

1 Samuel 28:12: And when the woman saw Samuel...
14: ... And Saul perceived that it was Samuel
15: And Samuel said to Saul...
16: Then said Samuel...
17-19: (prophecy of Saul's destruction).

"Samuel", not "image of Samuel" or "demon impersonating Samuel". She was surprised, because she was not expecting to ACTUALLY conjure him up (unlike usual charlatanry). Samuel was angry, and prophesied what would happen. A demon would lie, but Samuel did not. It would have said "You will win", then rejoice when he didn't.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/15


StrongAxe: The conjuring of the apparition of Samuel by the Witch of Endor was, like modern conjuring, an appearance by a demon impersonating Samuel.


---jerry6593 on 8/20/15




Nicole_Lacey

I have said to friends please pray for my daughter a number of times. I never prayed to them or bowed down to them. Nor did I believe they had special merits that could remove people from purgatory by their works.
On RCC sites the word latria used to honor God alone. Dulia to honor saints. To honor the Virgin Mary, hyperdulia.

These are above the honor due a Earthly Queen or Judge. They are a form of worship as the Rosary is a repetitive prayer to Mary.

These words were created to show it was not worship because it looks like worship, sounds like worship and acts like worship. Many Hispanics in my area say they worship Mary. Because they apparently didn't get the memo.

Why pray to a dead person?
---Samuelbb7 on 8/19/15


Cluny:

Jesus was resurrected (and is hence alive), hence no necromancy there.


Rita_H:

You said: Spiritualists do this but it is Satan they summon unknowingly. We are warned not to do it. The dead are still dead until Judgement Day.

Not always. Look at Saul commanding the Witch of Endor to summon Samuel. To her amazement, she actually suceeded, and Samuel was not pleased.

Praying to Jesus is not remotely akin to necromancy. It is the line of communication He gave to us. Apart from Jesus all other dead people are still in their graves.

I was not talking about Jesus. I meant praying to saints (i.e. dead people).
---StrongAxe on 8/19/15


Necromancy is a form of magic involving communication with the deceased, either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily, for the purpose of divination, etc. etc. (Wikipaedia).

Spiritualists do this but it is Satan they summon unknowingly. We are warned not to do it. The dead are still dead until Judgement Day.

Praying to Jesus is not remotely akin to necromancy. It is the line of communication He gave to us. Apart from Jesus all other dead people are still in their graves.
---Rita_H on 8/19/15


\\On the other hand, holding a conversation with someone who is in heaven (i.e. dead) is, technically, necromancy.\\

Is Jesus in heaven?

Is He physically present to you?

Do you hold conversations with Him in prayer?

Careful how you answer my questions. You may be charging yourself with necromancy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/15


StrongAxe: "This uses the same logic as the Muslim claim that Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were actually Muslims."

Not so! The Muslims, like many Christians, do not keep the Seventh-day Sabbath or look for the advent of Jesus.



---jerry6593 on 8/19/15


cluny: "Please say when Christians began worshipping on Sunday and why. Bet you can't."

After the deaths of ALL the apostles, that's when. Thus, no Sunday keeper can (by definition) be Orthodox.


---jerry6593 on 8/19/15


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Strongaxe, I was pointing out Samuel's statement. Which many here repeat the same line over and over and over. Stop it!



Yes, because that person is physically present, and it is possible to hold a conversations with him. On the other hand, holding a conversation with someone who is in heaven (i.e. dead) is, technically, necromancy. And we know how well that worked for Saul.

YOU ALL HAVE A CHOICE. CHOOSE A the reasoning Strongaxe gave, or CHOOSE B below:

I only need and pray to the Father in the name of Christ. ---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/15

PLEASE NOTE THE WORD 'ONLY'.

QUIT IT. REMOVE THAT WORD FROM YOUR Sentence or you are just LYING to yourself.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/18/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: I know at one point in your life you have either asked someone to pray for you or someone asked you to pray for them.

Yes, because that person is physically present, and it is possible to hold a conversations with him. On the other hand, holding a conversation with someone who is in heaven (i.e. dead) is, technically, necromancy. And we know how well that worked for Saul.


jerry6593:

You said: SDA's on the other hand have existed continually since the Creation, keeping the Seventh-day Sabbath and looking forward to the advent of Jesus.

This uses the same logic as the Muslim claim that Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were actually Muslims.
---StrongAxe on 8/18/15


I only need and pray to the Father in the name of Christ. --Samuelbb7

I know at one point in your life you have either asked someone to pray for you or someone asked you to pray for them.

Why didn't you tell them to pray to God themselves and NOT ask ANYONE to pray for them?

You have rules for others, BUT refuse to follow them yourselves.

People in England bow to the Queen all the time.
Are they worshipping her or just showing respect?
People stand when the Judge enters the room.
Are they worshipping the Judge or showing respect?

Give CCC# stating where the RCC TELLS us to worship Mary or any Saint.
Guess what?
You won't be able to do so because She NEVER TOLD US TO WORSHIP ANYONE BUT GOD!
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/17/15


\\They certainly did not teach transubstantiation or theistic evolution. Apostates brought such heresy into the church.
\\

Please tell me the name of the first apostate who brought Transubstantiation (and the Orthodox have never committed ourselves to this explanation of how the Bread becomes the Body) into the Church.

Give the date as well.

Please say when Christians began worshipping on Sunday and why.

Bet you can't.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/15


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The other images were for beauty none were for worship.

When I was Roman Catholic I saw people bowing down to images every time I was in the church. I know many who bow to the images of Mary and pray to her every day. Many have her image in front of their house. They place gifts to the images.

I read in the Newspaper about an image of Jesus found floating in the Rio Grande. It became a shrine where people knelt and prayed.

Are there not places where people climb on their knees and other pilgrimages to earn the favor of the saints.

I only need and pray to the Father in the name of Christ.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/15


Cluny: "We existed since the days of Christ and the Apostles. The SDA didn't come into existence until the middle of the 19th century."

No you didn't. Christ and the Apostles never taught that Sunday was God's day of rest, or that people have immortality prior to the resurrection at Jesus' return. They certainly did not teach transubstantiation or theistic evolution. Apostates brought such heresy into the church.

SDA's on the other hand have existed continually since the Creation, keeping the Seventh-day Sabbath and looking forward to the advent of Jesus. We are the remnant church of Revelation:
Rev 12:17 ... the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
---jerry6593 on 8/17/15


"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God, and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

So, we need to seek our own correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 > and make intercession for "all who are in authority" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4 > and

"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

So, don't get tangled with wrong ones who are trying to use this to make themselves look good, by comparison (2 Corinthians 10:12).
---Bill_and_Jan on 8/16/15


No Jed, that's now going to bring people back to the original topic.

Look at the other blogs. They ALWAYS change after 10 postings.

To bring us back you must speak of the topic again in a fresher clever way.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/16/15


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Wow. Thanks guys for hijacking a thread about an actual important topic for your petty religious quibbling. Way to go.
---Jed on 8/16/15


Samuel, since no doctrine of the RCC TEACHES anyone to bow to imagines, your point is ridiculous.

Also, since GOD told Moses to build 2 images your other point is baseless.

Lastly, what part of 'whatever'(whatsoever) in Matthew 16 do you not understand that gives the CHURCH with the KEYS OF HEAVEN to make Dogmas on earth?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/16/15


\\They didn't bow down to them. Nor pray to them\\

Do you salute the flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance?

Besides, not all the images were behind the veil.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/15


The images were behind curtains that couldn't be seen.

They didn't bow down to them. Nor pray to them. They and we today go to go directly in prayer.

The High Priest stood as the representative of GOD.

Today our Representative is Jesus Christ our High Priest. No one can take his place.

Heb 4:14-16

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need
---Samuelbb7 on 8/16/15


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Samuel BB said, "No Monk Brendan not donatism. I am not talking about their baptism or sacraments.

But their teachings. If they are teaching heresy then you cannot trust their teachings."


Granted, I would not have trusted Pope Leo X for anything. He said, "Since God has given us the papacy, let us enjoy it".

As a whole, however, their sacraments are part of their teaching. The Holy Spirit is invoked in every Sacrament! Are you saying you don't trust God? Heaven forbid!

God is in control. If He is not, and if (as you imply) God can be hijacked by an evil man, then anything--even the Bible itself cannot be trusted, and we are lost in our faith.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/15/15


\\The idea that the laying on of hands makes a person sacred no matter how evil they live is false.\\

It is the OFFICE that is sacred.

St, Paul himself said that he held this treasure in "earthen vessel"--to put it politely, stink pots.

\\The use of iconography and images in worship cannot be traced back to the Jewish founders of Christianity.\\

Except that God commanded images to be made for the Tabernacle and Temple.

Happy Dormition.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/15/15


No Monk Brendan not donatism. I am not talking about their baptism or sacraments.

But their teachings. If they are teaching heresy then you cannot trust their teachings.

The idea that the laying on of hands makes a person sacred no matter how evil they live is false.

A person no matter who if living in sin cannot be trusted to be a representative of GOD. There are many Televangelists who I don't trust to tell the truth. Nor do I trust many popes. Some were good men and I even read some of their stuff.

But my final authority on what is truth is the Bible. My watch word of truth is "It is written". I trust Jesus above everyone on earth dead or alive.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/15/15


Monk Brendan, Cluny and Nicole.

The Bishops who founded your church can indeed be traced back.

not all your doctrines can be traced to the Apostles.

The use of iconography and images in worship cannot be traced back to the Jewish founders of Christianity. It cannot be reconciled with the commandment to not bow to grave images.

Leaders of the Church cannot live in sin and still be the leaders. For over 900 years each church said the other were teaching heresy. Even today some of the others teaching is still considered heresy. Unless the Orthodox plan to recognize the Pope is alone the Vicar of Christ. So on that alone one has to be wrong.

Since one is wrong then you cannot trust their doctrines.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/15/15


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Samuel BB said, "So all the Bishops ... were heretical. So does that mean they were no long apostolic? Since they taught heresy?..."

Samuel, God is in control. The Mystery of laying on of hands confers grace. It doesn't matter if the bishop is deep in sin (of any sort--including heresy), the grace is supplied by God, and not the bishop.

You are sunk in heresy yourself. If you question the Mysteries (Sacraments) because a particular priest or bishop is evil, then you have fallen into Donatism

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/14/15


\\Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. \\

You are not so confused you think this means "remnant church", do you?

And you never answered my question giving at least one "man-made" practice of Orthodoxy and the name of the man who invented it and when.

That's because you can't.

But you sure can spout your half-dozen verses, can't you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/13/15


Since Pope taught Heresy is the RCC no longer an Apostolic church.---Samuelbb7 on 8/12/15

1. The RCC NEVER stop teaching about heresy.

2. To be an Apostolic Church is done by LAYING of the hands.

When the laying of the hands chain link is broken then it's isn't Apostolic Church.

The Orthodox is an Apostolic Church because they can link their Priests and Bishops back to Peter and the other Apostles.
As when Moses placed his hands on Joshua and the Apostles continued in Acts.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/13/15


\\After all they teach that the Bible is wrong and they are right. Which I understand to be heresy.\\

Wrong again.

In the Orthodox Church, the worship is offered as is pleasing to God and the pure word of God is preached without fear or favor.

We existed since the days of Christ and the Apostles. The SDA didn't come into existence until the middle of the 19th century.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/13/15


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cluny: "remnant church (a phrase the Bible itself never uses)?


Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


---jerry6593 on 8/13/15


So all the Bishops and many priests of that area were heretical. So does that mean they were no long apostolic? Since they taught heresy?

Since Pope taught Heresy is the RCC no longer an Apostolic church.

Also since Apostolic churches can teach heresy. How do you know that the Orthodox are not teaching Heresy?

After all they teach that the Bible is wrong and they are right. Which I understand to be heresy.

Amazing Grace how sweet the sound.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/12/15


\\Did you know that your pal cluny thinks that only Orthodox will go to heaven -\\

Wrong again, as in everything else you say about me, jerry.

Doesn't it bother you to tell lies and slander about others? Or do you think the commandment from the Decalogue, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor," doesn't apply today?

BTW, does the SDA still insist that candidates for its baptism say that they believe the SDA is the true remnant church (a phrase the Bible itself never uses)?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/12/15


\\My point stands they were iconoclastic.\\

And my point stands that they were heretical on several other things, too.

Finally, Elvira was NEVER counted as an Ecumenical Council, the first of which (after the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15) was held in 325.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/15


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Nicole: Glad that you enjoyed my humor. Not everyone here does. Did you know that your pal cluny thinks that only Orthodox will go to heaven - so you are out. I don't agree. I think many Catholics will be in heaven.


---jerry6593 on 8/12/15


I just said it was a council of Bishops. As called in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

"Held early in the fourth century .... It was, so far as we know, the first council held in Spain, and was attended by nineteen bishops from all parts of the Peninsula.... Some copies of its Acts contain a date which corresponds with the year 324 of our reckoning, by some writers the council has accordingly been assigned to that year.,... The principal bishop attending the council was the famous Hosius of Cordova. Twenty-six priests are also recorded as sitting with the bishops. Its eighty-one canons were, however, subscribed only by the bishops."

Monk Brendan you seem less upset then Cluny.

My point stands they were iconoclastic.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/11/15


\\So Cluny the RCC teaches this soul destroying doctrine and all who accept the Nicene creed do so also?\\

If you knew as much about church history as you claim, Samuel, you would know that FILIOQUE was added to the Creed in the West.

The original form of the Nicene Creed as declared by the Councils did NOT have this word.

And without this unauthorized addition do Orthodoxy and the other Eastern Churches receive it.

NOBODY recognizes Elvira as being an ecumenical council.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/15


Samuel BB said, "Filioque Latin for "and (from) the Son",...

So Cluny the RCC teaches this ...doctrine and all who accept the Nicene creed do so also?"


As an Eastern Catholic, I must put in my two cents. Filioque is an innovation of the Roman Catholic Church. Eastern Catholics, like their Orthodox brothers, do not use it.

However, this is not the separation that you might believe. Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI both recited the Creed without filioque publicly.

Let's try to put things like that behind us--the Catholic Churches and the Orthodox Churches are moving closer together, instead of farther apart.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/11/15


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Filioque Latin for "and (from) the Son", It has been the subject of great controversy between Eastern and Western churches.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,who proceeds from the Father and the Son,who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified.

So Cluny the RCC teaches this soul destroying doctrine and all who accept the Nicene creed do so also?

This seems to contradict your points about how close Orthodoxy and the RCC are today.

Yes it was a smaller council or synod. But it was still a gathering of Church leaders under a bishop
---Samuelbb7 on 8/11/15


\\There use sprang up among gentile believers and was denounced by Spanish Synod of Elvira). around 350 along with other sins\\

The Synod of Elvira approved the soul destroying heresy of Filioque, too.

In any case, nobody considers it to be an ecumenical council, and hence has no authority.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/10/15


Notice that jerry did not actually answer my question, but instead tried playing the martyr card.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/10/15


Nicolaitan:..---jerry6593 on 8/10/15

That's a good one!
You gave me a good laugh.
Thanks.

But, the question was directed to Micha because she or he ATTACKED ME without knowing the situation.

No one was addressing Micha, but he or she is the one with a lot of time on her or his hands.

Yes, I am a PROUD CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN.

AGAIN, GOOD ONE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/10/15


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Nicolaitan: Since you are a newbe here, you are not aware of the years of insults I have endured from cluny (his cat's name). His reputation is well known on CN.

You apparently have a lot of free time on your hands in which to dig up and manufacture attacks on others here. I have tried to explain my position and logic on various subjects, but you don't seem to be able to understand them, preferring instead to twist and distort them into a personal affront that I never intended. You are a Christian aren't you?


---jerry6593 on 8/10/15


One man made rituals is the bowing down to statues, relics and icons. That is a pagan custom. See Iconoclasm.

Exodus 20:4,5

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

Yes it is called a lessor form of worship. But our worship is to go to GOD alone.

There use sprang up among gentile believers and was denounced by Spanish Synod of Elvira). around 350 along with other sins.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/10/15


Jerry, please do answer Cluny.

Micha, are you reading any of Jerry's posting?

Notice how insulting Jerry is to Cluny?

That is why I said you were messes when you addressed me ONLY when I was answering Jerry's question TO ME.

He asked why I was insulting him after he lambasted me with insults FIRST!

I answered him as I was shocked how he was complaining of being bruised with his similar insults.

Any reviews of Jerry's past postings as you did me, Micha?

Or are you a Sexist yourself?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/9/15


BTW, jerry, should you manage to list any, or even just one, of our "man-made rituals," be sure to give the name of the man (or men) who invented it/them and when.

Otherwise, you're just using scatter-gun attacks and slander.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/15


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jerry, there's a saying. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought foolish than open it and remove all doubt.

\\You obey your leadership in many silly, man-made rituals and pagan customs. \\

Please name one of our man-made rituals or pagan customs. Bet you can't

\\You support a political party that murders children, chops them up and sells off their body parts.\\

Wrong again! I'm a registered Republican!k

And to remind you, I was named as a defendant in a $39 million lawsuit for merely PRAYING SILENTLY across the street from the abortuaries.

Question: If the SDA church is people, why do you have leadership that approves of pre-natal child killiing?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/15


cluny: "You're a member of a church that approves of killing preborn babies"

No, I'm not. The church is the people - not the leadership. The vast majority of SDA's disapprove of abortion.

You obey your leadership in many silly, man-made rituals and pagan customs. You support a political party that murders children, chops them up and sells off their body parts.

You believe salvation by denomination. I don't.


---jerry6593 on 8/9/15


Does the SDA still believe and teach that the US government with its wicked Sunday blue laws that force people to work on Saturday is the False Prophet of Rev. 13?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/7/15


Happy Transfiguration!---Clunyon 8/6/15

I bet you only 5 people know about this feast.

When Tradition is threw out, all knowledge is lost as well.
They don't about Liturgy and it's Calendar to celebrate certain feast days.

Happy Feast day to you,
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/6/15


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I haven't weighed in on this for two reasons. First, I am a celibate man, and I am not in the position to influence any woman to change her heart--save by prayer.

Second, a couple of the participants have been throwing stones at each other.

Really, gentlemen, do you not know that we are all schismatics? That we are all apostate? That all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God? Behave yourselves!

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/6/15


\\We don't approve of it. We recognize and accept it as a law of this country. \\

Then why do you have guidelines about when abortion may be performed.

Here's the only Orthodox guideline: Don't do it. You'll be cut off from the Eucharist.

BTW, wasn't it in an SDA hospital that an infant received a baboon heart sometime in the last 30 or so years?

Happy Transfiguration!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/6/15


You're a member of a church that approves of killing preborn babies and says that Satan will be the sinbearer, but MY church is apostate?
Cluny

We don't approve of it. We recognize and accept it as a law of this country.

Jesus is our Sin Bearer. The devil is made to pay in hell for leading humans into sin.

How much of the Day of Atonement in the Sanctuary have you studied Cluny.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/6/15


I was going to simply answer the question by saying that Christians should be outraged. But then I was reminded that it is far more accurate to say that Christians ARE outraged. And that's the truth. Every single Christian is outraged by abortion.
---Jed on 8/6/15


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\\And why are you a member of an apostate church?\\

LEt's see.

You're a member of a church that approves of killing preborn babies and says that Satan will be the sinbearer, but MY church is apostate?

Happy Transfiguration!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/6/15


clunity: "But that's not what was being discussed."

Yes it is! Read MY blog question.

And why are you a member of an apostate church?



---jerry6593 on 8/6/15


One way birth control pill causes abortion is by making the womb lining unattachable.

So on the 7th day when the formed complete fetus tries to connect to the womb it can't and dies. That is one form of abortion the pill causes.

Another is that it makes the womb lining so TOXIC it kills the fetus after it manages to attach itself to the womb.

The birth control pill companies have all kinds of ways of preventing a delivery of a baby.

Note the words 'BIRTH CONTROL' is used not 'CONCEIVABLE CONTROL pill'

Rita, words are very powerful.

Please study the 2 phrases above.

People SADLY think birth control pills means not being about to conceive.

No, it is in the word. It means not to give BIRTH.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/4/15


\\The ISSUE of taxpayer-funded abortion clinics trafficking I harvested baby parts did NOT occur in Bible times. Grow up, will you?\\

But that's not what was being discussed.

Why did you change the subject?

And why are you a member of a pro-abortion church?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/4/15


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Thanks Rita, but I am not confused. I am a nurse.
That's why people NEED to READ THE FINE PRINT.
The morning after pill is CLEAR.
The Birth control pill also states it can CAUSE an abortion as well.

Please find someone who takes the pill and ask for the paper inside.
It also states it can cause cancer.
That is the evil cleverness of satan. NO ONE reads the fine print.
Many Protestant couples are shock when they listen to a Catholic talking about birth control pills.

The RCC isn't trying to make people have lots of babies.
We have NATURAL plan parenting. IT WORKS without any pills.
Not the rhythm method either.

Please just read the fine print. It's all there, but no one reads it. Please read it.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/4/15


Nicole, I think that you are confusing the birth 'control' pill with the 'morning after' pill. The first prevents conception from occurring, the second ensures that, if conception has occurred, it will be expelled (aborted). Some people call it the 'abortion' pill.

There is a world of difference between the two - maybe not to the R.C.C. but most people do realise that they are quite different.

Sadly many people are completely happy to have physical abhortions - even at a stage when the baby is completely recognisable as a baby.
---Rita_H on 8/4/15


clunity: "Wrong again, as in everything you say about Church history. Doesn't it bother you to pop off about things you clearly know nothing about, jerry?"

The ISSUE of taxpayer-funded abortion clinics trafficking I harvested baby parts did NOT occur in Bible times. Grow up, will you?


---jerry6593 on 8/4/15


Cluny is correct. Abortion has been around before Jesus was born.
That's why the RCC as well was and still is against abortion since the beginning.

Pope Paul VI explained again in his HUMANAE VITAE: Human life.

Abortion starts in Birth controls.
Read the package information.
Fine print. It states it can cause aboration and cancer.

Women pop those pill not knowing it is harming their bodies as well.

Ever notice a pill stays on the market for 2 years.
Then you see Lawyers asking women to sue the pill company for the next 2 years.

Then another pill comes along for the same game.

Wake up America! Esp you Ladies.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/3/15


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\\Neither was abortion. So what?\\

Wrong again, as in everything you say about Church history. Doesn't it bother you to pop off about things you clearly know nothing about, jerry?

As a matter of fact, abortion WAS an issue and commonly practiced in ancient times.

That's why there are Orthodox canons (church law) condemning abortions, and excluding both the woman who has one and those who perform them from Communion until their deathbeds.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/3/15


Cluny: "Evolution was not an issue 2000 years ago."

Neither was abortion. So what?


"Furthermore, there is more to evolution than Darwinianism, but I don't expect you to understand the difference."

Why not? I was steeped in Evolution in college, even studying Historical Geology. What's to understand about Evolution beside "God is a liar and modern academics have the truth"? If only you would distrust them as much as you do God, you might shift your paradigm. I did.


---jerry6593 on 8/3/15


Jesus said, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

The word "dead" is often expressed as something having no influence over us as christians (to be dead to the law (Romans 7:4), to be dead to sin (Romans 6:11)). Since we are living in the end days, we cannot change what is about to happen. We as christians can only pray (communicate as two friends communicate) to God our concerns.
---Steveng on 8/2/15


\\I suspect that the founders of your denomination were not pro-Evolution, yet here you are.\\

Evolution was not an issue 2000 years ago.

Furthermore, there is more to evolution than Darwinianism, but I don't expect you to understand the difference.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/2/15


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Cluny: I am on the same page with you on this issue. The fact that there are some liberal idiots in my Church that have corrupted our "official" website with this pro-choice nonsense does not alter the fact that the preponderance of opinion in our church as well as the position of our founders is decidedly pro-life. I suspect that the founders of your denomination were not pro-Evolution, yet here you are.


---jerry6593 on 8/2/15


BTW, jerry, if you consider yourself a Christian, how can you be a member of a church that has "guidelines" for abortion--in other words, is pro-choice?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/15


If you watch the news, you will see how Christians are reacting.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/15


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