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Visit To Cornelius House

Does Peter's sheet vision, given in regard to his visit to the Gentile Cornelius, actually condone the eating of abominable scavenger animals?

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 ---jerry6593 on 7/31/15
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Jerry THIS is religious bigotry. Who do you think is thought of here when reading these verses ?

1 Timothy 4:2-4

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
---kathr4453 on 8/22/15


Jerry, WHY would God use something you say is STILL unclean and use it as an analogy to point to Gentiles? It appears through many other scriptures it refers to both being made clean.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. Because YOU have a weaker faith Jerry, it's only evil TO YOU.

Colossians 2.....let NO MAN judge you in MEAT, or of a SABBATH etc.
Those still under the LAW of Moses are more inclined to sit in judgement of others, condemning others who are now under NO COMDEMNATION. What does that tell you?
---kathr4453 on 8/22/15


Michael: Your statements are self-contradictory. The context of these chapters are about religious bigotry - not license to eat disgusting animals. If you contend that the vision was literal, then you will have some real problems with other biblical symbolism.


---jerry6593 on 8/21/15


Genesis 9:3

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Samuel, no such commands were given to Noah.

This can also be backed up in Romans 5....between Adam and Moses there was no LAW. Yet death still reigned.

I'm sure Noah didn't eat poison ivy either. That isn't good for you either. Yet no LAW had to make that known. Maybe just common sense played a part.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/15


/Of the unclean there were only two each. So eating one would have wiped out those animals.\-Samuelbb7 on 8/20/15
The misunderstandings of Noah's account.
1. That only 2 or 7 of each kind got off the ark.
2. That the unclean animals were not to be eaten.
3. What Noah was to eat before and after the flood.
-Man was to eat vegetation before the flood and Noah walked with God (Gen 1:29,6:9).
-Man could eat anything after the flood (Gen 9:3).
-The unclean were decided before man could eat all(Gen 7:2)(notice only beasts).
-The animals were in the ark over a year(Gen 7:11, 8:14).
-Unknown how many out (Gen 8:19).
-The clean were used for sacrifice (Gen 8:20).
The "eating to extinction" excuse is a fallacy.
---micha9344 on 8/21/15




Your Problem Micha is that we look at what unclean stands for beyond the Ceremonial meaning. Which is indeed done away with.

We look at the rule to use proper sanitation, wash hands before eating, control diseases and that leads us to realize these are laws to help us live healthier lives.

Do you put in your car brands of oil that the dealer say not to put in?

Then why would you put in your mouth that which GOD our make said was not good. He pointed it out to Noah. Noah was not Jewish.

Genesis 7:2,8

Of the unclean there were only two each. So eating one would have wiped out those animals.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/15


/You do understand that Peter's sheet vision was not about food, don't you?\
Not directly, even though there was food in the vision.
/The chapter is about his upcoming meeting with Cornelius...\
Yes
/Neither time did Peter proclaim his freedom to eat the forbidden.\
Why would he talk about food when it was about men?
The vision was about God's sovereignty to reveal His commands according to the people involved. We don't build arks because God commanded Noah to.
God was showing what His commands were for the believer, in which God had cleansed the unclean.
This applied to men as well, as the chapter shows.
Paul verified that meats were clean directly, as well as Jesus indirectly, but SDA doctrine must deny this.
---micha9344 on 8/20/15


Michael: You do understand that Peter's sheet vision was not about food, don't you? The chapter is about his upcoming meeting with Cornelius, a Gentile, and his summary statement was:

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, but God hath shewed me that I should not call any MAN common or unclean.

The subject of relationship with Gentiles was stressed again when Peter retold this story in Acts 11. Neither time did Peter proclaim his freedom to eat the forbidden. Such action would surely have caused a recorded uproar.



---jerry6593 on 8/20/15


Genesis 7:5

5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.


And so did Abraham and so many others. COMMAND and COMMANDMENTS. Is Genesis 7:5 talking about the commandments contained in ordinances known as the Law of Moses? NO. Romans 5 make very clear from Adam to Moses there was no LAW.

So please oh please STOP insisting every time you hear the word law, commandments etc, that it is the Law under Moses whether 10 or 613.

Today God has COMMANDED everyone to repent, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/15


Those who are in heaven will never sin. They will live in perfect love. Loving GOD and loving others will not allow us to sin or break the Commandments. Romans 13:8-10

I don't get your argument in the face of these and all scripture.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/18/15

Samuel, in heaven there will be no need for commandments. It's not a matter of not breaking them, or the idea that LOVE will restrain us from breaking them....they simply won't apply to the NEW CREATURE or the New Neaven and Earth. SIN will not even enter into heaven, nor a sin nature that must be restrained.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/15




Samuel, concerning your last comment, .......we see applies to us today before we are in the New Heaven and Earth.


2 Corinthians 5:13-15

13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us, because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
---kathr453 on 8/19/15


1 Corinthians 14:37

37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Interestingly, when Paul wrote this he was in this whole chapter and all the chapters prior to this was about order in the church, speaking in tongues, one awesome chapter on love, but no 10 commandments, nor was Paul even talking about the 10 commandments. We see Abraham obeyed commandments statutes etc, long before the Law of Moses was written. From Adam to Moses sin was not imputed because there was no law..Romans 5. SOOOOOO Samuel, again, LAW Commandments etc do not ALWAYS mean the 10 written in stone.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/15


Keeping the Commandments of GOD is a joyous thing to do.

1John 5:2-4
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Those who are in heaven will never sin. They will live in perfect love. Loving GOD and loving others will not allow us to sin or break the Commandments. Romans 13:8-10

I don't get your argument in the face of these and all scripture.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/18/15


I guess it would make sense that those who believe Isaiah 66 and Zechariah 14 are heaven, and what they think life will be like in heaven, that they would believe we will be under the LAW and commandments for all eternity, and that breaking those commandments result in punishment. Sadly for those who believe such things it appears God has never revealed to them what He has in store for us. 1 Cor 2.

Now those who know the NT can go to 1 Corinthians 15 and see YES HE MUST reign until all enemies are under His feet....and THEN the End when the kingdom will be delivered "UP" to the Father, that GOD will be all in all.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/15


The Gospel according to the MYSTERY kept hidden, but now revealed is not the earthly Kingdom reign for 1000 years, and that earthly kingdom was never kept hidden. Peter understood well about THAT kingdom when He asked the Lord before He ascended...." WILL YOU AT THIS TIME RESTORE THE KINGDOM TO ISRAEL. Jesus answered, ONLY the Father KNOWS when that time will be. that time will be only AFTER THE MYSTERY OF GOD is COMPLETE....Revelation 10:7. The Gospel according to the MYSTERY is the CHURCH, a heavenly entity, not an earthly one.
Without this understanding you will never "rightly divide" the Word of Truth.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/15


Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

In Heaven we shall meet on Sabbath.


---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/15

Samuel, firstly there will be NO FLESH in heaven. Isaiah 66 along with Zechariah 14 are talking about the exact same time. Look at Zechariah 14, where it says, if Egypt come not up, God is going to,cut off their water.....

This is the EARTHLY reign Samuel....not Heaven. In Heaven there will be no sun or moon. Please rightly divide the Word of God.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/15


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Zechariah 14:17-19

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain, there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Will heaven have heathens AND punishment? NEVER NEVER NEVER.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/15


\\In Heaven we shall meet on Sabbath. \\

How can we, since there's no sun and therefore we won't know what day of the week it is?

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/15


/Does Peter's sheet vision...actually condone the eating of abominable scavenger animals?\-jerry6593 on 7/31/15
It did up until the 19th century, when a dillisioned ex-Millerite false prophetess bumped her head.
/And the voice came again to him the second time, What God hath cleansed, call not thou common. The use of them is accordingly indifferent to us. For not what entereth into the mouth defileth the man, but the vain opinion respecting uncleanness\-Clement of Alexandria 2nd c.
/God showeth manifestly, as in a picture, that the legal difference between the clean and unclean is abolished\/He(Paul-Rom 14:14) says that he knew, and was fully convinced, that all meats are pure, in order to remove all doubts.\-John Calvin 16th c.
---micha9344 on 8/17/15


Yes the law still points to Jesus. Not did but present tense.

The term law is used for the law of GOD. Which is based on love. To be opposed to the law of GOD. You have to be opposed to love.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

In Heaven we shall meet on Sabbath.

Read Hebrews 4.

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Do you believe GOD did away with this law. Read Romans 13, James
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/15


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cluny: "But is the God of your fathers the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit revealed in the NT?"

Of course He is! We don't worship the Sun God or the Moon God sitting in a monstrance.


---jerry6593 on 8/17/15


Jerry and Samuel, unfortunately you see the word LAW and walla, you presume to say it exclusively means the Law of MOSES. This is where we differ. The LAW pointed to Christ where now we have the PROPHETS.

When we are Born Again, we now become eternal beings. All that remains is our glorified bodies. Our NEW MAN today will be the very same through out eternity. Will ANOTHER heart be given again after that? I say no. Therefore since we won't have a mother and father in heaven, we won't have need for that one or any other commandments for that matter including any sabbath. We are SPIRITUAL now as we speak. Because you all do not believe the soul is ETERNAL, you have a faulty understanding of this whole matter.
---kathr4453 on 8/16/15


\\Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
---jerry6593 on 8/16/15\\

But is the God of your fathers the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit revealed in the NT?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/15


Kathr: You continue to miss the point. Paul's mention of the New Covenant Heb 8:10 is an exact quote from the Old Testament in Jer 31:33, wherein God says He will place MY Law in their hearts. It was the same Law as in the Old Covenant, the one that HE wrote HIMSELF. It was stored in the Ark of the Covenant which was secreted away in Jeremiah's time to prevent capture by the Babylonians. Only the location of the Law was changed - not the content.

Even Paul, whom you credit with abolishing the Law, nonetheless adhered to it, as:

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
---jerry6593 on 8/16/15


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Kathyr

James 2:11,12
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Notice James says these laws from the Ten Commandments are part of the law of liberty.

Also in Romans 13:8-10 it points out love leads to obeying the Ten Commandments.

The First four of the Ten commandments show we love GOD above all else.

Love was the basis of the Old Testament laws.

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/16/15


Jerry I posted at least 3 posts as to what LAW I obey. 2 Corinthians 3 does not say the Law of Moses written in our heart is changing us from Glory to Glory. So what LAW then could it be talking about? Well, I posted more scripture to back up . The LAW of the Spirit of the Life of Christ. The LAW of FAITH. The LAW of Liberty and the Law of LOVE. These produce FRUIT. The FRUIT of the SPIRIT. The 10 commandments do not produce anything but DEATH. If our flesh has been crucified with Christ, the end result is FRUIT. You must die to the law to be married to another, Jesus Crrist so that we ban bear FRUIT. The FRUIT of the Spirit is the evidence of our obedience. Obedience that we have crucified the flesh. Galatians 5.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/15


Galatians 5:22-24

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts..

Jerry, this is what you have missed out on. This is where you have fallen short. These attributes are not our flesh. Even the flesh can't produce the fruit of the Spirit. As long as you stay focused on your FLESH, keeping it in check with the LAW, you are still then IN THE FLESH and NOT in the Spirit. Those still in the FLESH are not Christ's. Read Romans 8. GOD said so.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/15


Katty: OK, lets not play games. The Ten Commandments, God's handwritten Law, does not mention meat because it's not about meat. It's about obedience born out of love.

But then again, Peter's sheet vision was not about meat either. It was about religious bigotry - a subject many here are well acquainted with.

Now it's your turn. Exactly what law do you think God writes on the heart in the New Covenant? (Hint: it's not license to eat scavenger carcasses).


---jerry6593 on 8/15/15


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It's a very simple question Jerry. You made the statement the 10 are written in the heart. Which one of the 10 has to do with meat?

Are you capable of answering this? OR are YOU going to continue to play games here?

Just answer this question Jerry.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/15


Kathyr I wish people knew the Ten Commandments. But most church members cannot name them. When I taught my niece her catechism they dropped one out of the list and took the tenth and divided into two.

You are right it is what we do that is the most important. Matthew 5 is all about what we do. We don't just not kill we love and help. We don't just not commit adultery we thing and do righteously. This is true for all the laws of GOD. We are not just not do something we are to be active in helping going and doing.

I believe in all the Bible and study and teach on all of it. So yes I follow Philippians and Colossians.

Colossians 3:23
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men,

Amen.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/15/15


Romans 12:1.. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God..

No one needs a transformed mind to know the 10 commandments. But you DO need the mind of Christ to KNOW the will of God. Paul KNEW right in Philippians 3. So while some ARE following HIS WILL, having nothing to do with meat or washing hands, the rest can continue on with the beggerly and elementary things as taste not touch not, TOTALLY MISSING the mark or the perfect WILL OF GOD.
---kathr4454 on 8/15/15


Samuel: Well stated!


Kathr: "The issue and question was about meat."

That's the problem Kat, the context of the chapter containing Peter's vision was religious bigotry toward Gentiles. But you want to have your salvation and eat your bacon too. So you change it to mean license to eat critters.

Let me ask you a question. What is God's Law? I know that you consider yourself under the New Covenant. So what is God's Law that is written on the heart in the New Covenant? All 638 statutes as you and cluny claim are inseparable? I say that it is the 10 written by God Himself. What say you?

Please stop fooling around and answer.


---jerry6593 on 8/15/15


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Jerry and Samuel, please READ these verses VERY CAREFULLY. The LAW was never kept secret but now revealed. The LAW is not of FAITH, so says SCRIPTURE. THIS was made manifest by the Scriptures and PROPHETS. The Law is not Prophecy. But the SECRET is no longer HIDDEN. You will find your answer in Philippians 3 and Colossians 2and 3.

Romans 16:25-26

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
---kathr453 on 8/15/15


This blog has really gotten off coarse. The issue and question was about meat. Then it became about washing your hands...of which none of the above are even mentioned in the Sermon on the Mount.

And what exactly do you believe the LAW of Liberty is about? 2 Corinthians 3 tell us we are being changed from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord. This was not even addressed in the Sermon on the Mount. We are not being CHANGED by commands of THOU SHALL NOT.

NOT doing something is not the same as DOING something. Only those who DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER. Romans 12: 1-2 tell us what you must DO first to even KNOW the will of God. We already KNOW what the 10 commandments say, so this WILL of God is something MORE.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/15


Great lets us look at the Sermon on the Mount.

First there are those who are blessed.

Then it speaks of those whose lives show Christ and follow him.

Christ says he fulfills the law so it is not destroyed.

Those who uphold them are great those who don't are least.

The the sixth Commandment against murder is broadened to include anger.

The seventh of the Ten Commandments is broadened or made more spiritual to thinking about adultery.

Tell the truth. Ninth Commandment.

Paul repeats all of the last six. So on what basis do you thing the first four are done away with?
---Samuelbb7 on 8/14/15


Jerry, please stop evading my question to you by asking another question. WHERE is MEAT, which is what this blog is initially about, in the 10 you claim are written in our heart?

OR was that one written on parchment and nailed to the cross...being taken out of the way?

Please stop fooling around and answer.

And by the way, it's God who initially, and thereafter refer to the 10 commandments as statutes and ordinances.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/15


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Romans 8:2-4

2 For THE LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Jerry , here is my answer, the Law written in my heart is the LAW of the Spirit of the life of Christ......again reiterated in Galatians 2:20-21. This is the "LAW" I obey. Since the LAW of Moses is not of FAITH, and WE obey the LAW of FAITH, why do you judge AND DISOBEY what God has commanded through the NEW Covenant?
---kathr4453 on 8/14/15


\\So what is God's Law that is written on the heart in the New Covenant?\\

Try the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount.

\\ All 638 statutes as you and cluny claim are inseparable? \\

IT's 613. Please get things straight.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/14/15


kathr: You and cluny seem to be arguing from a position of how much disobedience you can get away with. Many, but not all, of God's ordinances were temporary in nature and were fulfilled in the New Testament. The Levitical sacrificial system, for example, was a prophecy of the cross, and once fulfilled, no longer has meaning.

Let me ask you a question. What is God's Law? I know that you consider yourself under the New Covenant. So what is God's Law that is written on the heart in the New Covenant? All 638 statutes as you and cluny claim are inseparable? I say that it is the 10 written by God Himself. What say you?


---jerry6593 on 8/14/15


\\1Co 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.\\

And the SDA admits they pick and choose which of God's commandments they keep.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/13/15


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Jerry, when the 10 commandments were first introduced in the OT, they were still called the statutes and ordinances. I will reword so there is no misunderstanding. No OT scripture makes any such statement of dividing the 10 in stone from those you claim are written on parchment, but many times over call all of them Statutes and ordinances.

You did not answer my question either.....so now please answer. Which one of the 10 address MEAT? If that one was written on Parchment as you suggest, that IT WAS DONE AWAY WITH, NAILED TO THE CROSS. Correct? ......according to YOUR division?
---kathr4453 on 8/13/15


kathr: "In the OT even the 10 commandments were never called commandments"

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

---jerry6593 on 8/13/15


Deut 5:1 The Ten commandments are called "My statures and all My ordinances"
Ezekiel 20:19-21 The weekly Sabbath is called "My statures and all My ordinances"
Mal 4:4 Book closes with a call to keep "statutes and ordinances" which obviously include the 10 commandments because it would be unthinkable for such a doxology to leave them out completely!
Lev 19:1-37 The Ten commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called "My statures and all My ordinances"
---kathr4453 on 8/13/15


Deuteronomy 4:13
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Also Deuteronomy 10:4 and Exodus 34:28

1Co 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Ten are based on the two greatest commandments as Moses, the Jewish lawyer and Jesus stated.

Mark 12:30,31, Luke 10:27, Deuteronomy 6:5, and leviticus 19:18
---Samuelbb7 on 8/13/15


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Jerry, concerning your last comments here.....can you give specific scripture to back this up? In the OT even the 10 commandments were never called commandments, but actually statutes and ordinances. And what scripture states those written on parchment were those that were AGAINST US AND were the ones nailed to the cross? Are you saying letting the land rest every 7 years was AGAINST US, and that was nailed to the cross? Which of the 10 address MEAT now written in our heart? Or did you just make all of this up without actually thinking it through?
---kathr4453 on 8/12/15


cluny: I see that after years of having this explained to you, you still pretend not to get it.

Commandments of God vs. Handwriting of Ordinances:

God's Commandments (Ten in number) were written in stone by the finger of God Himself, and placed INSIDE the Ark of the Covenant. They are eternal and are written on our hearts in the New Covenant.

The Handwriting of Ordinances were written by Moses on parchment and placed OUTSIDE the Ark. Some were temporary in nature since they addressed the sacrificial system. These were nailed to the cross.

You can't nail stone.

---jerry6593 on 8/12/15


Cluny where have I stated a judgement of you? I speak against false teachings only.

Good Questions Kathyr.

A standard Christian doctrine is that the Ten Commandments are Moral statues and for all Christians.

Read Romans 3:31

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

If a law is about the temple or for the government it doesn't apply to us.

If a law is about being loving it applies to us. Romans 13:8-10

Laws that are about health such as washing your hands before eating are good health rules.

That is it. Read Psalm 1 and 119.

Follow Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/10/15


Samuel, how do you decide which "statutes and ordinances". ( that is what they are actually referred to in the OT) are not for you today? The reason I ask, is because those in your church ...as in all churches actually, have different ideas as to what is for today and what isn't. Tithing is a big one all denominations have different opinions about, and even those within all denominations.

Many defer to Paul teaching we give from the Heart, and it's according to our own conscience, or how we are lead by the Spirit, and not by the letter.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/15


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\\Also are you supposed to judge me for keeping Sabbath? Read the passage.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/9/15\\

Not at all.

So don't judge me for attending Divine LIturgy on Sunday.

\\Cluny you say the Sabbath Commandment from the Ten Commandment is not for us today.\\

I think you're confusing me with yourself when you said that some of God's commandments (of the 613) are not for today.

Here are your exact words: **We also recognize that many of the Old Testament Commandments are not for us today.**

Please do not blame me for what you say yourself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/15


Col 2:16,17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Study how Passover and Yom Kippor and other sabbaths were about the coming of Christ and judgement day.

The Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is a Memorial of Creation. It says so in the Commandment and Genesis. Also in Hebrews 4.

Until recently all agreed the church is to keep Sabbath. Many made it Sunday.

Pope John PaulII and Francis call Sunday a Sabbath.

My point is the Bible says's it is the seventh day not the first.



Also are you supposed to judge me for keeping Sabbath? Read the passage.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/9/15


Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


Again Michael_e you fail to see the IN HIM and He IN YOU.

We are justified by His Blood, but SAVED from the wrath to come by HIS LIFE. our Justification is our LEGAL standing before God. Our sanctification is through HIS BODY. We are sanctified through THE BODY OF CHRIST. You continually leave out the PERSON of Christ. HE is head of the Body, and we being in THE BODY, yes HIS BODY, we are complete IN HIM. We are members of HIS BODY, not members of His Blood. We are flesh of His flesh and bone of His Bone. Not blood of His blood.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/15


Paul says Sabbath days were a shadow future things.(Col 2:17).
many are deceived that their church-going, tithing, or good behavior keeps them in the body of Christ.
About this Paul strongly writes that Christ blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us.(Col 2:16)
It was on the merits of Christs shed blood on your behalf that you are saved from Gods wrath. Circumcision, baptism, nor ordinances can add one ounce more to what Christ has already accomplished for you.
What will make you complete and finish the work of salvation is the shed blood of Christ on your behalf. Put your faith in this and nothing else and you will be complete in Christ (Romans 4:5)
---michael_e on 8/8/15


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Cluny you say the Sabbath Commandment from the Ten Commandment is not for us today. You also don't read the Commandment to not make graven images and bow down to them the same way we do.

So you teach most of them are done away with.

We recognize that the New Covenant is not exactly the same as the Old. We recognize we are not the nation of Israel or have a sanctuary. So those rules don't apply to us.But all the Ten Commandments do.

So that makes your letter hard to understand.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/6/15


cluny: "But there are 613 commandments."

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Once again you show your ignorance of the Bible.



---jerry6593 on 8/6/15


\\Cluny you follow nine of the Ten Commandments.

We follow all ten. We also recognize that many of the Old Testament Commandments are not for us today. \\

But there are 613 commandments.

On what basis do you decided that some of God's commandments "are not for us today"?

Jesus said we should live by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of God. You say we should live by only some of them.

Who is right: you or Jesus?

Glory to Jesus Christ!!
---Cluny on 8/5/15


The lady was baptized into the church and was grateful that the pastor showed kindness and tact Jerry.

Cluny you follow nine of the Ten Commandments.

We follow all ten. We also recognize that many of the Old Testament Commandments are not for us today. But others are and some are modified because we have plumbing.

So do you disobey the laws of the Old Testament by never washing your hands and not bathing? Or do teach that lying is okay?

Of course not. So why make such a charge against us? When we recognize that modern plumbing achieves the objective of getting rid of waste?

How does your charge show that we should not follow all of the Ten Commandments?

Please explain your logic.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/4/15


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\\Haha Cluny. No we use the sewer system.\\

In other words, the SDA picks and chooses which of God's commandments it will observe, instead of keeping the WHOLE law.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/4/15


Jews advanagment in Medical and Science is due to OBEYING God no matter what.

They didn't understand 90% of His rules.

But they obey them anyway.

Washing their hands.
Now the CDC has been telling us for at least 40 years how important it is to wash our hands.

The Jews were covered, not because they knew tiny germs was their hands.
They were covered because they OBEY GOD.

Jesus set up a Church before siting on the right side of God His Father.
Follow the Church as His demands not as you understand.

God is mysterious.
Obey now and find out why later.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/3/15


Samuel: I disagree with you and your deceased pastor friend. Agreeing to eat what God has forbidden is not a small thing. Look what happened to Eve. She also rationalized that "the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise"(Gen3:6). She obeyed Satan rather than God, and sin was the result.

If we can't obey God in a small thing like "no thanks on the pork and here's why", how then can we obey in the big things like the Ten Commandments? And what lesson was the pork lady left with? Are ALL of God's commands optional?


---jerry6593 on 8/4/15


Haha Cluny. No we use the sewer system.

Micha9344 I am sorry, I don't understand your point.

Yes Kathr I am not supposed to judge you. Do you judge me? The way some answers are worded here, some do judge me.

I know that some SDA who go overboard and judge others. For them and my church I apologize.

A pastor who is asleep in the Lord now. Told me how he was giving Bible studies to this lady. She surprised him by cooking Pork Chops for him. To not offend her he ate it. It was the first and only meat he ate in his entire life. He told this because some in the church were going overboard. To show the reason we don't eat meat is for health. Not salvation.

Do you eat meat on Fridays?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/3/15


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Samuel, yes there are many wise things said in the OT, I believe because of the times they lived in as well. One such law was to totally burn down a dwelling if it had mildew inside. TODAY this is not necessary. BUT if someone wants to burn down their house, ( hoping they own it outright) they are free to do so, as others are free not to. Isn't all of this according to one's own conscience before God? Same with meats one believes they are forbidden to eat. RELIGION wants to dictate one's conscience before God. Faith and a personal relationship with the Lord is not RELIGION. Christianity is not a RELIGION, but a person. This is why we JUDGE NOT.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/15


/Wash your hands before eating...All these laws in the Pentateuch help us to live healthfully.\
Mark 7:3,7 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash [their] hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders....Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
/I have asked atheists how did the Jews get so advanced medical knowledge above all the other people in the world. They have not been able to answer me.\-Samuelbb7 on 8/3/15
Wrong premises lead to wrong conclusions and nullify related questions.
---micha9344 on 8/3/15


\\ispose of waste properly.\\

Does the SDA obey the Biblical command to go outside the city with a shovel to bury your business?

Thanks for the information about poisonous birds.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/3/15


Cluny Wikipedia poisonous birds and animals.

Pitohui
Blue-capped ifrita
Little shrikethrush

Good point Kathyr We are not to be judging people .

Correct dart frogs were not in Israel. But other animals were. The laws of clean and unclean deal with points about health. Wash your hands before eating. Bath regularly. Dispose of waste properly. When to quarantine people. All these laws in the Pentateuch help us to live healthfully.

Many of these were not shown to be correct until the 20th century. I have asked atheists how did the Jews get so advanced medical knowledge above all the other people in the world. They have not been able to answer me.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/3/15


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Kathr: "Jerry's question in reference to the above vision is after the cross, where it doesn't matter what a Jew thinks, but what GOD THINKS."

I agree that God's opinion is the only one that counts. But consider that Peter (a Jew), long after the cross confessed that he had NEVER eaten anything unclean. So if the cross had somehow annulled God's prohibition against unclean meat, Peter didn't get the message.


---jerry6593 on 8/3/15


Samuel, what birds are poisonous to the touch?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/2/15


What God has cleansed included food
Acts 10
Jesus told Peter "kill and eat"
Peter said he had never EATEN anything unclean
Jesus said "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision
---michael_e on 8/2/15


Samuel, my answer was in reference to how Jerry "today" feels about certain foods. The vision of the sheet Is AFTER Jesus died on the cross for ALL mankind. The Jews were also told not to judge in regards to MEAT either. If Jerry still wants to judge what people eat, he also "in comparison" is judging people he believes are less than desirable to be saved, as the Jews WERE, AND as Peter was also Judgemental towards abominable scavenger GENTILES, until God showed Peter how wrong he was. Paul,also openly rebuked Peter in Galatia for being hypotrical towards Gentiles when Jews were around. Jerry's question in reference to the above vision is after the cross, where it doesn't matter what a Jew thinks, but what GOD THINKS.
---kathr4453 on 8/1/15


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Just like many today think of Black, brown, white, Jew, and Muslim people today. There are many people who consider others to be abominable. ///

That has nothing to do with the question.

//Would you eat a Poisonous Dart frog? Also some birds are known to be poisonous to touch or eat. Would you eat them? ///

Are you saying Gentiles DID and lived? Can you prove this? Did God actually show these in the vision?

The FDA has given guidelines on healthy eating. They have a lot in common on the guidelines given by GOD. ////

Where does God address dart frogs?


Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/1/15
---kathr4453 on 8/1/15


Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Here is a very confusing and much debated verse, given to Noah. Does verse 4 mean canibalism? I believe it does, showing the RCC has misrepresented Jesus words. We also see before the LAW, no other divisions are given as to what one presumes to be abominable or not.

Beef I presume you eat.....but MAN caused mad cow disease. Viruses get into chickens we now see, also a clean animal. Monsanto ( man) is destroying veg and fruit. our water is becoming polluted, and Bushmeat was never a first choice, but a necessity. NOW WHAT?
---kathr453 on 8/1/15


No, just stick to the Gospels and listen to Jesus. Did He say nothing entering the body causes the soul to sin.

Jesus is supreme over the Apostles.

They follow Him, not the other way around.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/1/15


"Does Peter's sheet vision, given in regard to his visit to the Gentile Cornelius, actually condone the eating of abominable scavenger animals?" No.
The visions addressed Peter's prejudice. Prejudices he had formed based on what he thought the Father advocated and condoned concerning the gentile.
---Josef on 8/1/15


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I don't understand what you are trying to say Kathyr.

The Jews thought of all non-jews as abominable.

Just like many today think of Black, brown, white, Jew, and Muslim people today. There are many people who consider others to be abominable.

Christians are to love all people we are all one race descendants of Adam and Eve. GOD loves us all and died for all of us. But that is not the way of many in this world.

Would you eat a Poisonous Dart frog? Also some birds are known to be poisonous to touch or eat. Would you eat them?

The FDA has given guidelines on healthy eating. They have a lot in common on the guidelines given by GOD.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/1/15


Not unless in comparison there is such a thing as abominable scavenger people.
---kathr4453 on 7/31/15


But many things became abominable after the fall of man.

Leviticus 11:41
And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination, it shall not be eaten.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Peter didn't know he was supposed to eat that which GOD had declared not fit for food.

He stated it was people that were okay.

Acts 10:28
And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 7/31/15


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