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Third Temple Belief

Does a false belief in a "THIRD TEMPLE", blind Christians to actual End Times events that are happening today?

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 ---Lutherist on 8/11/15
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Lutherist, Yes we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, built up together called the CHURCH, taken from both Jew and Gentile. However, I am one who also believes in the return of Christ to earth where Jesus Christ will reign for 1000 years, as was foretold and is in scripture ...scripture I pointed out to you that has NOT yet been fulfilled.

And Yes when Jesus comes to restore the Kingdom to Israel, He won't be ruling from Rome, but Jerusalem, and will take the Throne of David, exactly as scripture says. Now use your head...why would any throne in heaven be names after David? That's right, that throne will be here. Will it need to be rebuilt? You say the Pope/ Popes occupies/occupied it now/ then? Did David ruled from Rome?
---kathr4453 on 8/21/15


Cluny read the verse.

Revelation 11:2
But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not, for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Holy City under foot not temple.

Rev 11:19

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

In the Ark of His Testament lies the Ten Commandments.

The Temple is in heaven and the Ten Commandments are in it.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/21/15


Lutherist:

You wrote: I couldn't have been any clearer that there is not now nor will there ever be a Third Jewish Temple.

So you claim, but there is no scripture that actually says this. You just infer it from several indirect references, as do those who infer that there WILL be a third temple.

Do you not know that YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD

So where are your altar, your inner court, and your outer court? When has your outer court been trampled by the Gentiles, or when will it be?
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


\\I couldn't have been any clearer that there is not now nor will there ever be a Third Jewish Temple.\\

If it makes you feel good and superior to think that, why you just go on right ahead.

Won't bother me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/21/15


/In "Revelation", "His" (God's) temple and the Ark of His covenant is in Heaven ( Verse 19).\-Lutherist on 8/19/15
/Do you not know that YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD (1Corinthians 3:16)\-Lutherist on 8/20/15
Since these verses are true, you are either confusing them or misinterpreting them.
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.
-So where is this holy city, encompassing the temple of God, that the Gentiles going to trample underfoot(Rev 11:2)?
---micha9344 on 8/21/15




Cluny and kathr4453,

You really do have trouble with the English Language don't you?

I couldn't have been any clearer that there is not now nor will there ever be a Third Jewish Temple.

Do you not know that YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD (1Corinthians 3:16) "...for the temple of God is holy, WHICH YOU ARE. (1Corinthians 3:17) Or do you not know that YOUR BODY IS THE TERMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (1Corinthians 6:19) FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD" (2Corinthians 6:16)
---Lutherist on 8/20/15


\\In "Revelation", "His" (God's) temple and the Ark of His covenant is in Heaven ( Verse 19).
---Lutherist on 8/19/15\\

How are Gentiles trampling underfoot the heavenly Temple? That's what Rev. 11 says will happen.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/20/15


Lutherist:

You said: Are you seriously suggesting that something as vital to dispensational believers as a literal "Third Temple", would be left out of Bible prophecy and God's WORD???

No. If you read what I said, I was just saying that your previous message was a logical fallacy (i.e. the conclusion does not follow from the premises, not that the conclusion is wrong).

"Carrots are orange. Therefore, Abraham Lincoln is dead" is a logical fallacy, even though it is true.

Also, Rev. 11:1-2 measures parts of the temple. Do our hearts have altars, inner courts, and outer courts? This is too specific to be virtual.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/15


Lutherist, so far I have seen your inconsistencies from the beginning of this blog. Firstly you say the Temple spoken of is a "spiritual temple", AND THEN YOU point to the Popes Throne AS that spiritual Temple. No where in scripture does Paul or anyone refer to the earthly church as a TEMPLE. If perhaps you look around, TEMPLES are those places where those of the JEWISH faith gather to worship. No where in scripture in the NT were NT Churches called TEMPLES. Gentiles gathered at the Temples in Acts, but that was a temporary thing. And No POPE ever took over a TEMPLE, nor is the Vatican called A TEMPLE..or THE TEMPLE.
---kathr4453 on 8/20/15


Revelation 11

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not, for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months..

This could not possibly be heaven. To say there are "Gentiles" in the outer court in heaven is BAZAAR, unless of course you are a Mormon who use "Gentile" in a derogatory way. NOPE this is what Zechariah 12-14 also depict......a LITERAL war on earth when the Nations come against Israel in Jerusalem....NOT ROME.
---kathr4453 on 8/20/15




Malachi 3:1-2

3 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

This could not be heaven. Isn't Jesus COMING HERE ??? And what prophecy Lutherist says He's coming to the Vatican and calls THAT His Temple? NOWHERE!
---kathr453 on 8/20/15


Dispensationalism Came about in the 1900's under John Darby. It is in generally supported by Baptists and the Dallas Theological Seminary.

It divides the Bible into dispensations instead of Covenants. It places walls between the dispensationalists that are not found in Covenant theology.

I found no proof of this complex system of Bible understandings.

agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/15


Cluny,

You really don't like to read your Bible do you? Where is all this activity in and around the Third Temple in the book of Revelation??

I already responded to (Re 11:1-2). It's used by desperate Third Temple believers.

However, since there aren't ANY legitimate Third Temple verses anywhere in the Bible, these verses most likely refer to the invisible and spiritual Temple of Christ's Church (Eph 2:21), and that these verses are describing the separation of the tares (professing Believers) from the wheat (True Believers) before the ingathering (Rapture) at the last (7th) trumpet blast (verse 15).

In "Revelation", "His" (God's) temple and the Ark of His covenant is in Heaven ( Verse 19).
---Lutherist on 8/19/15


\\Are you seriously suggesting that something as vital to dispensational believers as a literal "Third Temple", would be left out of Bible prophecy and God's WORD???\\

I'm not a dispensationalist.

And you've not answered my question about the Reformers and paedobaptism by pouring.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/15


You surely do hate being disagreed with, don't you Lutherist?

\\PLEASE... enlighten us all as to where these passages in Revelation are that speak about all of this activity in and around the Third Temple in JERUSALEM???\\

For one, there is the verse where John is told to take a rod and measure the Temple.

Since this prophecy was given AFTER the Temple was destroyed, it must refer to something in the future.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/15


For most things StrongAx that would work.

But the people who say there will be a third temple are saying this is a prophecy of what will happen.

But for there to be a prophecy of what will happen then there has to be words that point to that event.

Many people say Jesus will never return. But there are many prophecies that say He will.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/19/15


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StrongAxe,

Are you seriously suggesting that something as vital to dispensational believers as a literal "Third Temple", would be left out of Bible prophecy and God's WORD???

Seriously!!!
---Lutherist on 8/19/15


Lutherist:

You said: The Third Temple will NEVER be built! This has been proven by the fact NO ONE has been able to contribute a single verse that actually predicts a Third Temple.

This is a logical fallacy. Absense of evidence may suggest absence of something, especially if one would otherwise expect evidence, but it never PROVES it. For example, replace "third temple" with "internet" (or almost any other modern contrivance) in the above sentence to see why it fails:

The internet will NEVER be built! This has been proven by the fact NO ONE has been able to contribute a single verse that actually predicts an internet.
---StrongAxe on 8/19/15


Cluny,

For someone who claims to have been a Christian for 50 years, your arrogant ignorance is truly amazing.

You constantly pontificate and attack people with ridiculous and fallacious statements as if they are well settled Biblical fact.

For instance, YOU said...

"...To repeat what I said earlier, Revelation talks about some events that will take place in and around the Jerusalem Temple. This obviously requires a THIRD temple, as Revelation was written after the destruction of Jerusalem..."

PLEASE... enlighten us all as to where these passages in Revelation are that speak about all of this activity in and around the Third Temple in JERUSALEM???

I have paper and pencil ready
---Lutherist on 8/19/15


\\ the Berean Jews demanded Biblical proof before they would believe Pauls teachings. \\

And that's why we don't believe YOUR teachings, Lutherist.

You've given NO Biblical proof of anything you've said about the 7 seals.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/15


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\\ALL of the reformers believed that the Roman Pope was "Antichrist".\\

And who made their mouths prayerbooks?

For what it's worth, ALL of the reformers also believed in infant baptism by pouring, too.

Do you agree with them on that?

Why not?

If they are wrong on the second, why are they not wrong on the first?

Besides, YOU were the one who brought up the Pope.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/15


Lutherist, NEVER SAY NEVER. Depending on one's view of the Rapture, 1000 year reign of Christ, the Kingdom restored to Israel all have legitimate views of Revelation. Does Israel want to build another Temple? They have as we speak everything to rebuild. I believe they do. Was it possible before 1948? NO. Is it possible today in our time? YES. Therefore we have MORE light today than ever. Many of those teachings, as yours is, came before Israel became a nation....which I'm sure their darkened minds could not believe possible. The fact that Israel is a Nation today, I'm sure someone before 1948 said to that as well...NEVER. But it happened....according to Prophecy....Isaiah 14:1-2.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/15


I believe the first 5 SEALS are already open, and Christians are completely blind to obvious prophecy fulfillment TODAY.
---Lutherist on 8/18/15

I think you are presumptuous in your statement.

Many Christians believe the first five seals are open today and many do not.

Just like many think that the scroll contains the deed to the Earth and many do not.

This is reading into the Bible in an attempt to understand where we are today in reference to the prophesy. Your sense of urgency convinces me of this.

All we need to do as Believers today is to love. Love God, love others, and surrender to Him daily.

BTW, what I find most interesting in The Revelation is what are contained in the Seven Thunders?
---Mark_Eaton on 8/18/15


The point of my blog question has been proven to be correct.

The Third Temple will NEVER be built! This has been proven by the fact NO ONE has been able to contribute a single verse that actually predicts a Third Temple.

Unlike YOU, who blindly stick to what you have been taught, the Berean Jews demanded Biblical proof before they would believe Pauls teachings. They searched the Scriptures for themselves, to make sure that what Paul taught was really true. Paul wasnt offended. In fact, he called them noble-minded.

You are not noble-minded, because you will not search the Scriptures to prove that what you believe is true.

You would have been among those who enthusiastically joined the Spanish Inquisition.
---Lutherist on 8/18/15


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\\NO ONE has contributed a single verse that predicts a Third Temple.\\

Wrong.

To repeat what I said earlier, Revelation talks about some events that will take place in and around the Jerusalem Temple.

This obviously requires a THIRD temple, as Revelation was written after the destruction of Jerusalem.

And YOU have not said what makes someone a REAL pope. Remember when you point your finger as others, you have three of your own fingers pointing back at yourself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/15


Samuelbb7,

PLEASE!! Restore sanity and focus to whats left of this discussion!

The POINT of this blog question was to have a discussion about the possibility that the popular belief in a coming Third Temple might be wrong, and that waiting for one to be built, could cause Christians to miss the prophetical events that are unfolding right now.

The Third Temple will NEVER be built! There are no verses that proclaim it to be re-built. NONE!! This has been proven by the fact that for the exception of Monk Brendan on 8/14/15, NO ONE has contributed a single verse that predicts a Third Temple.

I believe the first 5 SEALS are already open, and Christians are completely blind to obvious prophecy fulfillment TODAY.
---Lutherist on 8/18/15


\\Cluny,

I GIVE UP!!!

A closed mind is an impossible nut to crack. You are NOT willing to actually discuss ANYTHING!\\

In other words, you have no idea what makes a "real pope" or just who your "most Christian scholars" are.

BTW, I've been a Christian for over 50 years. Do you think you have something different to say I've not heard before?

I think you're more upset that I don't roll over and admit you're right than over anything else.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/15


Lutherist said, "I have gathered my sources over DECADES of study... You go to a GOOGLE search... REALLY!!"

Lutherist, I am a Catholic, and I can tell you that your sources simply don't deal with the facts. Peter was the first Pope. He was first bishop of Antioch, then God called him to Rome, where he was the first bishop there. The Bishop of Rome has been Pope since the Church started.

Now Gregory--which one? There have been 16 since the first who began his papacy in 590 and died in 604. There have also been two anti-Popes named Gregory

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/18/15


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Pope was sometimes used for a number of Bishops.

The Roman Catholic church pope came to claim preeminence over the other popes. Saying he alone had the keys of Saint Peter.

But this and other doctrines took time to form.

There are are in the RCC history antipopes for there were times when two or more people claimed to be popes at the same time. Each one calling the other false.

So why are all these Apostolic churches in disagreement after all these centuries. Why do they have different doctrines if they are the only ones correct?

Protestants have different doctrines because many follow the teachings of men and not the Bible. Could the same be said for all churches?
---Samuelbb7 on 8/18/15


Cluny,

I GIVE UP!!!

A closed mind is an impossible nut to crack. You are NOT willing to actually discuss ANYTHING!

You are a "Nit-picker" who NEVER has anything positive to contribute.

I have gathered my sources over DECADES of study... You go to a GOOGLE search... REALLY!!

By, By Now!
---Lutherist on 8/18/15


lutherist, just what do your scholars say it takes to be a REAL pope?

FWIW, I searched "Who was the first real pope" and got 18 different answers. NONE of them was Gregory i. (One even listed Constantine, who was never Bishop of Rome.)

Finally, I have a verse by verse commentary on Revelation written in the 500's, and it gives a way different interpretation of the seven seals than your "most Christian scholars."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/15


Cluny,

After this, I'm done with Pope talk. ALL of the reformers believed that the Roman Pope was "Antichrist".

Gregory I was considered the first Pope, because he was the first to consolidate power in Rome. Ecumenical Councils were attended by representatives of both East and West.

However, Pope Innocent III was the first pope to claim to be the Vicar of Christ and Infallibility. This Pope was a real king of a real empire. The Holy Roman Empire was a consolidation of many European countries. Therefore, this Pope commanded a real multi-national army that fought real wars of real territorial conquest.

Pope Innocent III was the first pope to truly earn the title "Antichrist".
---Lutherist on 8/18/15


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\\ According to most Christian scholars, the first real pope was Gregory I who ruled from 590-604 AD. Seal 1 has been open for 1,424 years.

Today, the Pope has no military power. \\

Bishops of Rome before Gregory 1 (who was a bastion of sound Christology) were called "pope", too.

And Gregory had no army.

Neither, for that matter, did Pope Leo I who likewise had no army, but faced down Attilla the Hun.

And just who are these "most Christian scholars"? Sounds to me like you have your mind already made up.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/15


\\According to most Christian scholars, the first real pope was Gregory I who ruled from 590-604 AD.\\

And what in particular makes him the first 'real' pope?

Be specific.

Bishops of Rome (and Alexandria, for that matter) were called "pope" for centuries before Gregory I.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/15


Hi Cluny,

Sorry, I could only get so much info into 125 words.

According to most Christian scholars, the first real pope was Gregory I who ruled from 590-604 AD. Seal 1 has been open for 1,424 years.

Today, the Pope has no military power. When the final Antichrist takes his place as the leader of a united apostate Christian Church, he will have no army to command. Therefore, it is interesting to note that the rider on the White Horse of Seal 1 has a Bow, but no arrows!
---Lutherist on 8/17/15


Open your eyes and see today's world as a whole. Everything happening today is on a global basis: the economy, money, wars, plagues, terror, travel, knowledge, you name it.

Before the 1900s, everything listed above were local, today it's global. People can travel to any part of the world within a few hours. Knowledge can travel to any part of the world within seconds.

Satan knows he has only a short time left as the god of this world and is wreaking havoc like no time in history - especially against the Jews and christians. In fact, he is to destroy all of God's creation.
---Steveng on 8/17/15


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\\SEAL 1, the revealing of the throne of Antichrist, was opened with the first real Pope in 590 A\\

And who do you say was the first real Pope?

Were all the bishops of Rome before him false popes?

And how about the Patriarch of Alexandria, who also is called Pope.

You seem to think that Western Europe was the center of Christianity, thus ignoring all the Eastern Pre-Reformation Churches.

This, btw, is the same mistake the Adventist interpretation of Bible Prophecy makes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/15


SEAL 1, the revealing of the throne of Antichrist, was opened with the first real Pope in 590 AD.

SEAL 2, the revealing of the great sword of Islam in 690AD, with Islam's first anti-Christian Jihad.

SEAL 3, the revealing of Gods first direct judgment against an apostate Christendom, was the Great European Famine of 1314, just before the beginning of Jihad II.

SEAL 4, the revealing of Gods second judgment against apostate Christendom was the Black Death plague of 1347 AD.

SEAL 5, reveals the loving heart of God toward the faithful who have been martyred. Even now, today, martyrdom by beheading has become the horrific fate for thousands of Christians around the world.

SEAL 6, has not been opened.
---Lutherist on 8/17/15


\\I must be ready to meet Jesus every day.\\

My sentiments exactly, Samuel.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/15


This could be the last days of this present system. Jesus Christ could come soon.

At the same time I could die today.

I must be ready to meet Jesus every day. I must be prepared to see him when I rise from the grave every day.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/15


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Cluny:

You said: Our currency is printed by the United States Bureau of Printing and Engraving, not by the Federal Reserve.

Whether they do the printing themselves, or direct someone else do to it, the result is the same. In David's day, there was the saying, "Saul has killed his thousands, and David his tens of thousands". They didn't kill those by their own hands, but rather their armies did it in their names. The results were the same.
---StrongAxe on 8/16/15


\\the Federal Reserve finally stops printing trillions of worthless paper dollars, the entire world's economy will collapse?\\

Our currency is printed by the United States Bureau of Printing and Engraving, not by the Federal Reserve.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/15


Lutherist said, "Is ANYONE willing to seriously discuss the possibility that we are in the last years of this planet?"

I agree with Cluny on this. We have been in the Last Days since around 29 A.D. But I am willing to listen, if you can tell me where you got the idea.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/16/15


\\Just because the end of the world hasnt happened yet, doesnt mean that we are not those who will see it end.\\

Doesn't mean we are, either.

\\Is ANYONE willing to seriously discuss the possibility that we are in the last years of this planet? \\

I've already mentioned that we've been in the "last days" since 29 AD (or so).

\\Or, are you all completely blind to the fact that this Pope is constantly preaching blasphemy like... God will save even those who do not trust in Christ, \\

God said through Jeremiah, "If with all your hearts you truly seek Me, you shall surely find me." God will save whomsoever He wishes, but such are STILL saved by Christ.


Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/15


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Steveng,

The only relevant passages that you sited were in Ezekiel, and (Ezk 40:1-43:27) was what you were looking for.

However,

The Wall of Partition that separated Jews from Gentiles is missing from Ezekiels temple. So Is...

The Court of Women
The Laver
The Golden Lamp Stand
The Table of Showbread
The Golden Altar of Incense
The Veil
The Ark of the Covenant
The Alter of Sacrifice

Without these essential temple elements, it is simply impossible to refer to this as a Third Temple.

Ezekiel is clearly describing Pauls Spiritual temple, Christ's Church. Please open your eyes to the judgments that are already being poured out. The Third Temple will never be built.
---Lutherist on 8/16/15


Just because the end of the world hasnt happened yet, doesnt mean that we are not those who will see it end.

Is ANYONE willing to seriously discuss the possibility that we are in the last years of this planet?

Or, are you all completely blind to the fact that this Pope is constantly preaching blasphemy like... God will save even those who do not trust in Christ, that this president has completely separated Israel from us and the entire world and has given Iran, the most extreme Islamic enemy of Israel and the non-Muslim world, a path to nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles, or that when the Federal Reserve finally stops printing trillions of worthless paper dollars, the entire world's economy will collapse?
---Lutherist on 8/16/15


The second temple was built after the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity. The third temple is to be built upon the return of the Jews from all over the world.

Daniel 12:10
Matthew 24:15
Revelation 11:1-2 (how can one measure spiritual things?)
Revelation 15:8
Ezekiel 40:1-47:23
Daniel 9:24-27
Daniel 11:31
Amos 9:11
Jeremiah 30:1-31:40
Ezekiel 43:1-27
Deuteronomy 30:3
2 Corinthians 6:1-18
2 Thessalonians 2:1-17

Many denominational "christians" will not recognize that we are living in the end days.

What temple is Christ going to reign from during his thousand years?
---Steveng on 8/16/15


\\Write a message at one end, roll it up and place a wax seal at the end of the message and press the paper together. Then write another message, roll up and place another wax seal, and so on.\\

And do you have any evidence that ancient scrolls were sealed in the midst like thing?

Don't forget that writing materials were so expensive that the old writing would be scraped off and the papyrus, vellum, or whatever would be reused.

Sealing a document in the middle is to ask it to rip.

Happy Dormition.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/15/15


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//I believe this to be true.//

That doesn't make it so.

One could also ask, "Does a belief that this is the End Times blind Christians to a walk they ought to have with God?" For example, are they looking for an outward (horizontal) appearance rather than a God focused (vertical) focus?
---Rod4Him on 8/15/15


Lutherist, I can imagine all down through history, for instance when the various plagues killed hit and one specifically killed nearly 1/3 of the world population, those folks probably believed the same. If I lived then I sure would have. Or when Hitler terrorized the world....so many also believed he was the beast, especially his persecution and murder of the Jews. Many very grounded Christians lost their faith because the Lord didn't come. I agree things are leading up to all that will happen, and when it does it will be over in 7 years, and the worse part will only be for 3 1/2 years. So tell us exactly what date it began, and we can count the days from there to see if we are REALLY in this specific time?
---kathr4453 on 8/16/15


I believe that the seven Seals are already opening.

Imagine a long piece of paper. Write a message at one end, roll it up and place a wax seal at the end of the message and press the paper together. Then write another message, roll up and place another wax seal, and so on.

Gods final judgments are all contained within these sealed messages.

When each seal is opened, John was given a vision of its impact on the world. The seventh seal contains both the Trumpet and Bowl judgments.

Once a seal is opened, it remains open during the breaking of the rest of the Seals. Now imagine that we are missing the apocalyptic opening of these SEALS, because we are not yet looking for them.

I believe this to be true.
---Lutherist on 8/15/15


Lutherist said, "My intent for the Blog question was simply to have a discussion about the possibility that the popular belief in a coming Third Temple might be wrong, and that waiting for one to be built, could cause Christians to miss the prophetical events that are unfolding right now."

It sounds as if you still have your mind made up. Why worry about such things now? Rather, let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. Heb 1-:25-25

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/15/15


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I believe because so many believe we are in END TIMES now, they are the ones being deceived. Just as Judas believed Jesus was to take the throne then and overthrow Roman Rule, the reason he betrayed Jesus in the first place, shows if one does not rightly divide the word of truth, one may find themselves on the wrong side of truth. Judas was also called the man of perdition. Refer to John 6 for a deeper insight. Even then many believed and followed Jesus, but walked away...because they too got it wrong, comparing them to Judas. Did they betray Jesus as Judas did? Actually YES they did IF you understand the whole chapter. They TOO wanted to make Him KING....read the beginning and WHY Jesus went to the other side of the lake to get away.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/15


Lutherist:

I was also raised Roman Catholic. Although I don't think they taught me that Protestants were going to hell, it was more like "their souls are in jeopardy" - as in you COULD be saved if you were Protestant, but much less likely.

I totally agree that focusing on any one specific belief (especially a minor one), whether it is on the Third Temple, or the Rapture, or any other pet theory, can be dangerous, because if that one non-essential belief happens to be incorrect, and one pins one's entire faith on it, it's like building a house on quicksand. Focusing on anything too closely makes it harder to see things that aren't the object of the focus.
---StrongAxe on 8/15/15


Lutherist, Many during Hiltler's time also believe it was THE END, but we see that didn't happen. Also other places as in Daniel have not come to pass.....where many believe it had in 70ad. If it had, the 1260 days would have come to pass as well, and the 1000 year reign would be over, and the New Heaven and earth would be now.
Although times are tough, it is not yet END TIMES as described in Revelation to the T. The whole world has not yet witnessed SEEN the death and resurrection of the two witnesses for instance. Only in OUR TIME could such a thing be possible. Because the Bible never talks about the WWW, Internet or satellite to make that possible, many in the prior days before this technology believed it meant something else.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/15


StrongAxe, Cluny,

You are RIGHT! I phrased the Blog question poorly. And my statement, "before the Reformation, when INDEED the Roman Church was the ONLY Christian Church", was also poorly phrased. I do not believe that. It reflected the fact that when I was raised as a Roman Catholic, it was still being taught that the Roman Church was the ONLY true Church, and that everyone else was going to Hell.

My intent for the Blog question was simply to have a discussion about the possibility that the popular belief in a coming Third Temple might be wrong, and that waiting for one to be built, could cause Christians to miss the prophetical events that are unfolding right now.

Sorry for the confusion!
---Lutherist on 8/15/15


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Monk Brendan,

(Re 11:1-2) are VERY interesting verses. It is indeed widely believed that these verses may be proof or a literal Third Temple that will be built in Jerusalem during the Tribulation period.

However, there are also Bible scholars who believe that verses 1-2 refer to the invisible and spiritual Temple of Christ's Church (Eph 2:21), and that these verses are describing the separation of the tares (professing Believers) from the wheat (True Believers) before the ingathering (Rapture) at the last (7th) trumpet blast.

It is interesting to note that after the 7th Trumpet (verse 15), "His" (God's) temple and the Ark of His covenant is in Heaven ( Verse 19).

Good verse selection for further discussion!
---Lutherist on 8/15/15


The temple of Revelation is stated directly in Revelations.

Revelations 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Hebrews says Jesus Christ is our High Priest. He is in the Temple in heaven.

This is the temple the earthly one is based on.

Hebrews 8:2
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Pray about this.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/15/15


\\ I am still waiting for ANY verse or verses that PROVE a coming THIRD TEMPLE. PERSONAL OPINION doesn't count!
\\

Since Revelation was written AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, the book says that some events will take place in and around a future earthly temple (which has to be a THIRD temple), which, as I've already said, will become the Temple of Antichrist.

Of course, I'm looking for Jesus Christ, myself.

To Him be glory.
---Cluny on 8/14/15


Lutherist, here is Scripture to back up the belief in the third temple:(Rev 11:1-2) I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court, do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles.

Read on to vs 6 in the same chapter

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/14/15


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Lutherist:

You said: I am still waiting for ANY verse or verses that PROVE a coming THIRD TEMPLE. PERSONAL OPINION doesn't count!

How about elemenary logic? Your assertion that something (e.g. belief in the third temple) is false requires proof too. You can't just claim it's false without proof. Why don't YOU provide proof that this belief is false first, before demanding that others prove the opposite?

There are many things that are true that the Bible never talks about (e.g. the internet). Why do you post on this blog, as the bible never says it exists?
---StrongAxe on 8/13/15


Lutherist, the verses you put here in Corinthians is not talking about an earthly throne. The CHURCH as in the NT, where Christ is the head is not on earth, but in Heaven. We are seated with Christ in HEAVENLY places IN CHRIST. Therefore your suggesting someone else can sit on THIS Spiritual Throne, other than Christ who already occupies, just is not true. Pope Innocence can sit on the Pot and call that his throne too, but again, it's an earthly location, not a heavenly one.
---kathr4453 on 8/13/15


\\You wrote... "Most rulers rule while sitting on their thrones." Pope Innocent III ruled before the Reformation, when INDEED the Roman Church was the ONLY Christian Church.
\\

Except, of course, for the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Coptic Church, the Armenian Apostolic Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East and all the others.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/13/15


StrongAxe,

You just PROVED my point!

You wrote... "Most rulers rule while sitting on their thrones." Pope Innocent III ruled before the Reformation, when INDEED the Roman Church was the ONLY Christian Church.

This Pope took his seat in the TEMPLE OF GOD (1Cor 3:16-17)(1Cor 6:19)(2Cor 6:16) as Christ's holy equal and arrogantly took Christ's place as HEAD of the entire Christian Church.

I am still waiting for ANY verse or verses that PROVE a coming THIRD TEMPLE. PERSONAL OPINION doesn't count!
---Lutherist on 8/13/15


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Lutherist wrote:

The question itself is improperly formed and begs the answer. "Does the false belief in (anything) blind (anyone)?" would always be answered "yes". (like "have you stopped beating your wife?" assumes that the one asked beats his wife, and both "yes" or "no" answers confirm this.).

It presumes that the belief in the third temple is false. Those who believe in it will insist that it is NOT false, and that NOT believing in the third temple causes blindness.

... and ruled while SITTING ON HIS THRONE until 1216 AD.

Most rulers rule while sitting on their thrones.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

This says nothing against a third temple.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/15


3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Lutherist, please reread these verses. Where the Pope sits is NOT called the Temple of God, anymore than where the head of the Mormon Church sitting in his temple is called the Temple of God. Man made temples are not the Temple of God, and the RCC never call their throne the Temple of God. Man made thrones are also not Spiritual.
---kathr4453 on 8/13/15


Not everything on youtube is true. Yes a small group may want this but it is not a plan.

Churches are often called temples today. Saint Peter's is often viewed as one of the most holy places on earth.

2Thessalonians 2:3,4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This man opposes the law of GOD. The word "as" could mean like he was sitting in the temple and many not mean actually sitting in a third temple.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/13/15


There may be a third temple or not. The first temple was a tent in the wilderness so it would not take much effort for human hands of today to build another one but if there is one set up it won't be the pope sitting in it.

Satan is much more clever and sly then to give the world what they anticipate. While he has the eyes of God's people diverted and consumed with the goings on of the pope, the evil one is setting up his scheme elsewhere and few will be aware just as in the days of Noah when the flood came and swept them all away. Matt 24:14-15, Matt 24:35-44.

---barb on 8/13/15


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Lutherist, the verse reads sitting in, not among, or in the midst of.
---Josef on 8/12/15


Kathr4453,

Jesus, John, and Paul warned that false Christs would come.

The apostle John, taught that there would be many of these false Christs, and that they would stand in opposition to Christ as the one and only head of the Church. Therefore, John calls them Antichrist.

The rise of the Roman papacy took place over many centuries. However, Pope Innocent III fit this description of the Antichrist EXACTLY. He came to power in 1198 AD, and ruled while SITTING ON HIS THRONE until 1216 AD.

He was the first pope to arrogantly claim the title of Vicar of Christ, which means, Supreme Sovereign over the Church of Christ.

However, every pope who came after has taken the blasphemous title Vicar of Christ.
---Lutherist on 8/12/15


Lutherist, sorry to disagree. There is no way the man of perdition can even think of sitting in a spiritual temple. Since satan is not omnipresent, omniscient and what ever that other omni is, makes it impossible for this to be some spiritual temple he sits in. He can't even get IN or even get that close to sitting in a spiritual temple deceiving anyone. WE are built up a spiritual temple, Christ the Corner stone. You are saying Satan can find his way in, acting like GOD, and deceive many through the Body of Christ? NUTS TO THAT!
---kathr4453 on 8/12/15


There is absolutely no proof for a Third Jewish Temple in (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

Paul is describing the coming APOSTASY of Christ's Church. The son of perdition who claims to be Gods equal, is the leader of the apostasy.

There is no third Temple here. Paul only uses the term Temple of God in reference to individual Christians, or the entirety of Christs Church.

Do you not know that YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD (1Corinthians 3:16) "...for the temple of God is holy, WHICH YOU ARE. (1Corinthians 3:17) Or do you not know that YOUR BODY IS THE TERMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (1Corinthians 6:19) FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD" (2Corinthians 6:16)

The temple that Paul is referring to, is a SPIRITUAL TEMPLE!
---Lutherist on 8/12/15


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'If' a "THIRD TEMPLE" is "a false belief" what "temple of God" does these verses reference? "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." It certainly can not be in reference to his body, or the temple currently standing in Jerusalem.
---Josef on 8/12/15


The Jews of Jesus's time were to told about a third temple to be built (we are not Jews nor ever should be).

In Israel today, the Jews are making plans for a third temple and a red heifer worthy of sacrifice.


On youtube, see the video....

Prophecy Update! Red Heifers and The Third Temple of sacrifice.

IT'S FOR THE JEWS!.
---faithforfaith on 8/12/15


Cluny,

You are right, the "Last Days' started with the first coming of Christ (He 1:2) and ends with the new heavens and the new earth (Re 21:1-7)

"End Times" is not a Biblical term, it's a common term used to describe the last days of this planet.

Christians have been taught that a re-built Third Temple is the most important sign of Christ's return. However, it is actually the most tragic of End Times teachings.

Christians waiting for a Third Temple are left in a theological stupor, missing current prophetic fulfillment in the world, while waiting for something to happen that will never happen.

There is absolutely NO Scriptural evidence for a Third Jewish Temple.
---Lutherist on 8/12/15


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