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Is A Building A Church

Is attending a church building and giving our money what is described in the New Testament as church? Or has it drifted far from the original design? Is the building what Christ had in mind, or the individual person that is the temple of the Holy Spirit?

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 ---anthony on 8/13/15
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Dear Steveng

Many people suffer because of their choices. Others suffer because of other people's choices. Murderers make other people suffer. People who drive drunk make others suffer.

GOD had two choices to deal with the results of our choices or make us little robots with no choice. By giving us freedom of will humans choose suffering.

The question is what are we doing to relieve and help end suffering.

Many blame GOD for what is our own fault. They do not want to bear the responsibility of their own actions.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/26/15


Steveng you asked, "If a loving God is so powerful why does he allow people to suffer?"

If a loving God is so powerful why does he allow people to be successful?
---john9346 on 8/26/15


If a loving God is so powerful why does he allow people to suffer?
---Steveng on 8/25/15


The IRS will dictate what the church preaches in order to keep its non-profit status. It's already beginning in Canada and in Europe.---Steveng on 8/21/15

I believe you.
Just one thing.

The United States is the only Country with Free of Religion.

So, I am not surprised with those Countries.
They are all Socialist.

I believe they won't let you have a gun either.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/15


"The IRS will dictate what the church preaches in order to keep its non-profit Steveng you said, status."

You know interesting this past week I heard about many Christian Ministries are preparing for this because they have stated, "We will not bow."
---john9346 on 8/24/15




Steven, you've confirmed my point by saying God put restrictions on Satan. Satan is under God's control. God himself says he's the creator of evil (Isaiah 45:7).
---learner2 on 8/23/15


Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them saying,All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth,

Judges 9,15 - The God sent a evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem : and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech.
---Richardc on 8/23/15


learner2 wrote: "Satan does nothing independently of God's will."

On the contrary. Satan will do anything he wants. Look at what he did to Job and his family. The only restriction was that Job is not to be killed. Satan is the god of this world and will do everything he can to destroy God's creation. Today, Satan is wreaking havoc since he has only a short time left before God intervines.
---Steveng on 8/23/15


Satan does nothing independently of God's will.
---learner2 on 8/21/15


john9346 wrote: "...nonprofit means non-governmental support."

The IRS will dictate what the church preaches in order to keep its non-profit status. It's already beginning in Canada and in Europe. Many groups are demanding that the church don't preach certain doctine because it offends people. It seems like everyone is being offended in one way or another in todays world.
---Steveng on 8/21/15




Anthony,
"Is attending a church building and giving our money what is described in the New Testament as church?" No.
"Or has it drifted far from the original design? Is the building what Christ had in mind, or the individual person that is the temple of the Holy Spirit?"
For some it has drifted, except for the true Body of Christ, which is The Church. The Church, the Body, is not an individual either, but consists of individuals who are members of the Body, with Christ as head. However the words church and churches are used in reference to individual as well as multiple gatherings/groups of believers.

A few of many verses: Ep 1:22, Ep 5:23,25,27,29, Col1:18,24, Heb 12:23
---Chria9396 on 8/21/15


"Satan is the father of division."
Steveng, having different rituals/traditions is not division.

Can you tell me what do you think are the essentials of Christianity??

"As for being owned by the government: every denominational church (DC) is a nonprofit corporation."
Steveng, nonprofit means non-governmental support.

There are actually many denominations who don't care about tax exemption the SBC and many more to be exact.
---john9346 on 8/21/15


Steveng:

You wrote: Satan is the father of division. He has had over two thousand years to infiltrate and divide christiandom up into over sixty thousand different denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. ... Is Christ divided?

No, because even though different denominations differ in small things that rarely matter, they mostly agree in the major things that DO matter.

every denominational church (DC) is a nonprofit corporation.

You pay taxes. Does that make you owned by the government, because you give them money? Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Jesus said this, even though many think the second half is more important.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


Satan is the father of division. He has had over two thousand years to infiltrate and divide christiandom up into over sixty thousand different denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. And he did it most subtly. Is Christ divided?

As for being owned by the government: every denominational church (DC) is a nonprofit corporation. DCs will jump through hoops to keep their non-profit status even if they have to compromise God's word. They need the memberships to keep the money flowing to maintain their buildings, landscaping and other assets (both physical and paper).
---Steveng on 8/20/15


"All denominational "churches" are a product of Satan."
Steveng, explain how all Denominational Churches are a product of satan be specific with details??

"All denominational "churches" are owned by the government."
Can you be specific Explain how all denominational "churches" are owned by the government."??
---john9346 on 8/20/15


'Some' buildings are designated as 'a church' but true Christians are 'the Church' and don't, necessarily, need a building.

Many people, around the world, worship God without the need of a building and tithe faithfully for the upkeep of the 'work'.
---Rita_H on 8/20/15


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Samuelg:

You claimed: All denominational "churches" are a product of Satan.
All denominational "churches" are owned by the government.


(emphasis mine) Can you provide any concrete evidence of either statement above, especially the "all" parts? While it's quite easy to believe that some churches are corrupted by Satan, and that even some are own by governments (especially in some countries that have state churches), "all" seems to be quite a stretch.

It's curious how Jesus came down on certain groups (e.g. Nicolaitans) but never condemned denominational churches in general.

You didn't answer my question about where YOU tell new Christians to go.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/15


1 Corinthians 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you: but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

2 Timothy 4 :3 - For a time will come when will not endure sound doctrine: but after there own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears,
---Richardc on 8/19/15


The meaning of the word "church" today is completely different than it was in Jesus' time. Will Christ recognize the church upon his return?

Just by the way it's used today can attest to that: "I didn't see you in church today," "Our church has better [choose one: sound system, activities, pastor, more members, etc.]"

The true "church" of God are nothing more than the body of people, the christians.

All denominational "churches" are a product of Satan.

All denominational "churches" are owned by the government.

Christians in these denominational church are nothing more than counterfeit christians.
---Steveng on 8/19/15


Strong axe you said, "Some things are important. Many aren't. I'm sure Jesus doesn't particularly care whether you put strawberry jam or grape jelly on your toast."

StrongAxe, thanks for this statement...

Good point my friend...
---john9346 on 8/18/15


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Steveng:

You said: If a newly born christian asks what church should I attend what would you say? It doesn't matter? God forbid! There is only one true church and it's not made by the hands of man.

Some things are important. Many aren't. I'm sure Jesus doesn't particularly care whether you put strawberry jam or grape jelly on your toast.

Do you tell newly born christians "Don't go to church at sll"? How do they get Christian fellowship. If they meet regularly with other Christians, that would qualify as "a church", and even if they consider themselves independent, and not part of "established" denominations, without peer accountability, they form a denomination of 1.
---StrongAxe on 8/18/15


"Christians are to be like-minded not one view here and one view there. Is Christ divided?"

Steveng, in Christianity there are essentials and nonessentials.

essentials: justification by faith alone because of the grace of God alone in Christ alone with Scripture alone for the glory of God (the trinity) alone.

nonessentials would be rituals/traditions like denominational names.

All Christian Denominations are in total unity on the essentials if not they are not Christian.
---john9346 on 8/17/15


john9346 wrote: "Not sure why people always think different denominations are a bad thing."

Christians are to be like-minded not one view here and one view there. Is Christ divided?

If a newly born christian asks what church should I attend what would you say? It doesn't matter? God forbid! There is only one true church and it's not made by the hands of man.
---Steveng on 8/17/15


No, I don't think the building is what Christ had in mind.

We are the temple . . . right, honey?

Yes, we are . . . not only an "individual", but we are, together . . . "members of one another" (Romans 12:5, Ephesians 4:25).

So, it's not the building or the individual, but it's the one body of Christ >

"For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones." (Ephesians 5:30)

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

So, it is not about what to do with money, but how to love.
---Bill_and_Jan on 8/16/15


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"Satan has had over two thousnad years to divide christianity into over 60,000 different denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible."

Not sure why people always think different denominations are a bad thing.

There has always been different rituals, traditions, and methods in Scripture.
---john9346 on 8/16/15


Satan has had over two thousnad years to divide christianity into over 60,000 different denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Is Christ divided? The true church of God ARE the christians, period, not a building or denomination made with man's hands. Will Christ recognize the "church" upon his return? Denominational "churches" belong to the government and spend 80% of their revenue for the upkeep of their buildings.br>
The assembly of christians can be wherever two or more are gathered in Christ's name - a park, a cafe, on the street corner, or in one's home. It doesn't need to be a large crowd, just a few friends meeting daily.
---Steveng on 8/16/15


Yes Anthony, the meaning of the word has certainly drifted.

The word 'church', as used in the bible, refers to true believers in Christ. WE are 'the church'. Some buildings, which we call churches, will have true Christians within them plus many other people who enjoy attending Sunday services and might have done so since birth.

'A' church and 'the' church are not the same thing. We can be part of 'the true church' without ever having the opportunity of stepping inside a building called a church.
---Rita_H on 8/15/15


The people are the church, the building is just one of many meeting places. When we give money it should be to help support the ministry including light bills etc if we choose to attend there. however again the people are the church, the building is just a structure to meet in
---candice on 8/13/15


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Of course God had a building in mind. Not everyone can gather in one person's mind to worship God.
God wants us to worship Him together and alone.

For the group worship, there has to be a structure of some type.

Individual person is a temple of the Holy Spirit for the private worship.

Can't God demand both from us?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/13/15


The "church-house" (building) is not the "Church" (Body of Christ ~ Born Again Believers). It's a place where saved & unsaved alike congregate (saved to praise, worship & unsaved hopefully to receive salvation). Living, breathing, born again people make up the Church. Many people are in (come into) the church-house but not the Church.
---Leon on 8/13/15


Yes, God has always wanted church to be the gathering of believers together for edifying, community, and friendship. A known fact is people like to meet in buildings. Jesus meet people in synagoges and the temple to preach.
The OT temple is where God was able to link with the Israelites. Yes, the christian is now that link between God and man.
The false dichotomy is that the church building is now irrelevant compared to the individual. The church is still a main component for the spread of the gospel and the santification of believers. Accordingly the human people who are on staff should be given tithes and offerings as the fullfillment of there work. 1 Corinthians 9:9-12.
---Scott1 on 8/13/15


General lexicographical principle: Words can gain new meanings without losing old ones.

Sounds like again, you have your mind made up about what answer you want.

The Greek word "ecclesia" (whence "church") means a gathering or assembly. It's hard for one person to be an assembly.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/13/15


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The Church is the people that attend any particular building for the purpose of worshiping God. That definition has come down through the ages.

The building that may be called a church is just that, a building--hallowed for the things of God--but none the less a building. However, I have seen classrooms, gyms, auditoria, private homes, even a dental lab with an iconostasis also a Church--Matt 18:20 "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/13/15


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