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When Are They Beheaded

In (Revelation 20:13) it says, "Those Beheaded" for the name of Christ, will be in the thousand year reign.
Many folks believe they are saved and will also be in the 1000 year reign. My question is, When do they lose their heads?

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 ---David on 8/14/15
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Lutherist:

You wrote: I didn't claim that John wrote in Aramaic... Catholic and Protestant historians all agree that he did!!

Really? All the ones I have encountered said he wrote in Greek. Again, could you cite at least some of your "all" above, and explain why you think they are the majority?

I could at least prove to you that my position on Islam does indeed have a solid foundation.

As I said, I agree with you. Just not necessarily on this one very specific piece of evidence.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/15


How can you expect to trust any group with historical knowledge, when their religion teaches them to hold actions of those who went before them in contempt? You see this now with groups like ISIS demolishing cities and especially temples and churches, effectively erasing history.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/15

I totally agree!

Lutherist, so you are saying we are discussing YOUR personal opinions? What make your personal opinions any more important than the Muslins? Scripture teaches scripture. And your personal opinions have nothing to do with scripture.
---kathr4453 on 8/25/15


StoneAxe and Cluny,

Cluny,
There is obviously no thinking brain in you head. I didn't claim that John wrote in Aramaic... Catholic and Protestant historians all agree that he did!!

Also how could the masses understand John's words read to them in Greek, if they didn't speak Greek??

Also... A personal opinion on an interpretation of prophecy, doesn't ADD or TAKE AWAY anything!!

StoneAxe,

If I could show you all of the Biblical and historical evidence that I have, I could at least prove to you that my position on Islam does indeed have a solid foundation. Unfortunately, limited to 125 words per post, makes that type of discussion impossible.

God Bless!
---Lutherist on 8/25/15


\\It's my understanding that Muslims insist Revelation was first written in Aramic.\\

And what do mahometans know?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/25/15


kathr4454:

You wrote: It's my understanding that Muslims insist Revelation was first written in Aramic.

Of course, Muslims are such experts about Christian history (e.g. Abraham sacrificed Ishmael not Isaac. Jesus escaped crucifixion when someone else died in his place. His disciples lied about it. Jesus is not God. Apostles twisted and distorted the teachings of Christ, so only Muhammed, 600 years later, could correct the errors., etc.).

How can you expect to trust any group with historical knowledge, when their religion teaches them to hold actions of those who went before them in contempt? You see this now with groups like ISIS demolishing cities and especially temples and churches, effectively erasing history.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/15




It's my understanding that Muslims insist Revelation was first written in Aramic. If John wanted his letter read to,the illiterate masses....whoever they were, it would have been written in Greek. What about the rest of John's letters? Are you insisting they too were written in Aramic? All this is speculation in order to ADD TO OR TAKE AWAY FROM, ....A serious warning.
SEEING Lutherist has already taken away from and added to Revelation by saying the first resurrection has already passed, Paul warns in Thesselonians about this very thing is for the purpose of overthrowing the faith of many. BEWARE of false teachers.
---kathr4454 on 8/25/15


Lutherist:

You wrote: The name of the last empire is... "Mohammedanism". Its number may be the year the Koran was presented as a holy Book ... "666" AD.

You are so adamantly sure about this, despite the fact that the evidence for it, although it exists, is somewhat flimsy. It is dangerous to make such specific predictions about biblical prophecy, based on current-event knowledge. I remember back in the 80s many were sure the Mark was UPC bar codes, and in the 00s many are sure it's RFID chips. 10 years from now it will be something else.

I agree that Islam is very dangerous, and needs to be watched, and may indeed be what you say. But to affirm it dogmatically at this point is unwise.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/15


StrongAxe,

John intended his Aramaic scrolls to be read aloud to the illiterate masses.

The symbol John wrote may indeed be "666", but it has nothing to do with the Antichrists he spoke of. Read (Re 13:11-18) carefully, and you will see that this number somehow represents the "Beast out of the Sea".

The "Beast out of the Earth" forces the world to swear allegiance to this monstrous last world empire that has a man's NAME and a NUMBER.

Here is where wisdom is required.

The name of the last empire is... "Mohammedanism". Its number may be the year the Koran was presented as a holy Book ... "666" AD.
---Lutherist on 8/24/15


Lutherist:

You wrote: This was commonly taught by Catholic historians.

And all the Protestant ones I have encountered as well. Can you cite any that say otherwise?

John's audience did not have Greek as their first and best spoken or written language.

What was his audience? The New Testament was written in Greek specifically to reach a much larger audience than Aramaic would ever have done. The earliest church was in Jerusalem, but it quickly spread all over the Roman Empire, most of whom had never even heard of Aramaic. Revelation was written decades after the events in Acts.
---StrongAxe on 8/24/15


StrongAxe,

This was commonly taught by Catholic historians.

Latin, Greek, and Hebrew were the dominant written languages, but most people were illiterate.

John wrote his Gospel in Aramaic. John himself was fluent in Aramaic. John's audience did not have Greek as their first and best spoken or written language.

Johns writings were read to his audience. He chose Aramaic because it was the most common spoken language for his audience.

Another reason John wrote in Aramaic is that his Gospel has long discourses of Jesus speaking. Since Jesus taught in Aramaic, John was more likely to write long passages of Jesus' own words in Aramaic. Aramaic was the best fit for this type of writing.
---Lutherist on 8/24/15




Lutherist:

You wrote: Since he wrote in Aramaic not Greek.

How do you know that? While Aramaic was the common language during Jesus's time, Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean basin, as English is of the world now. Anyone who wanted his words widely read would write in Greek. Especially by 96AD, by which time Titus had already destroyed Jerusalem, and the Jews were scattered.

why there was so much confusion in the minds of the early translators.

Jehovah's Witnesses justify using "Jehovah" in the NT by quoting early manuscripts that show "pipi" instead of Lord, which they claim is due to Greek scribes attempting to transcribe the Tetragrammaton.
---StrongAxe on 8/24/15


Kathryn
No, there have been others who have suffered death, have been killed for their faith in Jesus Christ, who will also be in the 1000 year reign. (My Apologies for forgetting these folks)

But this is the only way, for those who do not go through the Great Tribulation, to be in that reign.

They are mentioned in (Revelation 6:9-11)
9...I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held
11....And white robes were given unto every one of them, and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants and also their brethren, who were to be killed as they were, should be fulfilled
---David on 8/24/15


Revelation 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man, and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I don't see symbols in scripture here. Six hundred is spelled out, three score, ( a score is 20 years) and six.

So now what? All that unregenerate MAN can ever measure up to is a six. Man was created in the sixth day. However The New Creature in Christ is a perfect SEVEN. Could this be the WISDOM needed to understand? THOSE alone who have WISDOM have the Wisdom of Christ ..who has been made unto us WISDOM.

Wisdom tells me also that verse was meant to be spelled out....."Three score"
---kathr4453 on 8/24/15


The Mountain Meadows Massacure, September 11, 1857. The Mormons fit the bill too Lutherist. The statue of Cain offering wheat, stood as their ikon until someone pointed out that God REJECTED CAIN's offering. Then they removed it. And all that stood/stands for is unregenerate man. In a funny way, all these conspiracy theories are somewhat on the right track. Could all these earthly unregenerate religions be the MOUNTAINS Satan sits upon. Well, God certainly does not. What could connect them as becoming one here on earth. "Mary" could connect Islam with the RCC. With lying signs and wonders, maybe the Mormons will buy into that too. The Medona and son do go all the way back to Nimrod.... as most false religions do.
---kathr4453 on 8/24/15


Hi StrongAxe,

I watched both videos again. I think both videos were trying to prove something that simply can't be proven. We will never know what image John actually put on the scroll. Since he wrote in Aramaic not Greek.

My interest was in a discussion as to why there was so much confusion in the minds of the early translators. Aramaic was easily translated into Greek, especially numbers.

What was it about the "MARK" that caused it to be translated as both 616 and 666. The oldest, Papyrus 115, clearly reads 616.

I believe that it was a symbol and not numbers. And that it somehow applies to Islam and Mohammed. But since John's original scroll is gone, we'll never know for sure.
---Lutherist on 8/23/15


But there's no such thing as a literal earthly millennium.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/23/15

Are you saying you don't take Revelation literally, OR are you saying it just won't be on earth? So now Heaven will be counting days, months and years, and will only last 1000 years?
---kathr4453 on 8/23/15


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\\I'm not saying only those beheaded will be in the 1000 year reign. I'm saying only those who go through the tribulation period, and refuse to worship the Beast, will be in the 1000 year reign.

There are many followers of Christ who have died, believing they will be in the 1000 year Reign with Christ. Since they did not go through the Great Tribulation, they will not be in the Reign of Christ.
\\

But there's no such thing as a literal earthly millennium.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/23/15


2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

David, do you believe the ONLY ones who will SUFFER are those during the Great Tribulation? Not so. Paul said, " That I Amy KNOW HIM and the fellowship of His suffering". The SUFFERING Church will reign with Christ. Those who suffer with Him will be glorified together with Him.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/15


Lutherist:

My mistake. I looked on Youtube for "islam = mark of the beast" rather than on Google for "youtube islam = mark of the beast".

Your video is 8 minutes long, and presents several points, which the video I mentioned (fifth from the top, if you do the Youtube search above) debunks. That video is 24 minutes long. It addresses the similarity between "allah" and "xi", but questions why it is rotated and not only that, mirror-imaged. The bar above the xi is common Greek notation for letters used as numbers. He addresses this, and why "number" cannot be translated as "myriad", and many other issues in his video. PLEASE watch it, and then we can talk further.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/15


I'm confused. First Lutherist says on another blog, the BEAST AKA anti_Christ was the Pope, and now it's Islam? "Anti_Christ" does not mean against Christ as some may think, but the word means an anti TYPE. I can't imagine Islam fitting that description.

Or are you saying the RCC Pope, The anti-Type will force people to Follow Islam with some type of Islamic marking? AND the world is going to be so deceived that it will fall for it ? For some reason I just can't see that happening.
Lutherist, there will be no anti-Christ AND Beast. But the Beast will be the anti_Christ who will sit in a temple as though he were God, and people will actually believe that is IS Christ who has returned. Do you understand THAT PART?
---kathr4453 on 8/23/15


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Maybe some foundation needs to be here for Lutherist. Remember Jesus saying.." IF anyone says...here is the Christ or there is the Christ DON'T believe it." WHY, because scripture tells us when the REAL Christ returns to earth, He won't be sneaking in unannounced. HOWEVER, when you look at the unsaved world, they will follow Tom Cruse anywhere...if you catch my drift. The BEAST will somehow try to unite all on the earth "with lying signs and wonders to worship him as though he were Christ Himself returned to earth?" His first task is to bring PEACE, and will for 31/2 years. Christ TOO will bring peace on earth, and THIS is where people will be deceived in believing he IS The Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/15


Those who were martyred from 689AD-1683AD (1,000 years), came to life and ruled with Christ, IN HEAVEN. (Revelation 6:9-11) (Revelation 20:4)

---Lutherist on 8/21/15

Seriously Lutherist? You say the FIRST resurrection has already happened? There won't be another FIRST resurrection. Talk about really being OFF THE MARK here. since YOU are not part of the FIRST resurrection where does that leave you? Facing the second death?
---kathr453 on 8/23/15


David, please go back and read it again.....it ALSO SAYS, and those for the Word of God. SOOOO it is not EXCLUSIVELY for those beheaded.--kathr4453 on 8/22/15

Kathryn
I believe you may have misunderstand the point I'm trying to make.

I'm not saying only those beheaded will be in the 1000 year reign. I'm saying only those who go through the tribulation period, and refuse to worship the Beast, will be in the 1000 year reign.

There are many followers of Christ who have died, believing they will be in the 1000 year Reign with Christ. Since they did not go through the Great Tribulation, they will not be in the Reign of Christ.

If they shall be saved, they will be in the second resurrection.
---David on 8/23/15


StrongAxe,

I say again PLEASE go to a Google search, and type in these words EXACTLY...( You Tube Islam = Mark of the Beast ) And click on the video that says... Islam = Mark of the Beast

Then let's talk
---Lutherist on 8/22/15


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\\By the way Muslims are taught that Christian means Roman Catholic and so all Christians were crusaders. \\

That's why the Copts (native Christians of Egypt) and Syriac Christians (some of whom are in communion with the Pope and some of whom are not) are called "crusaders" by the mahometans in those countries.

**The beheadings will be done by Guillotines.**

Please provide PROOF, Gordon. Saying the same thing over and over again does not prove it. (Did you know that paper cutters are sometimes called "guillotines"?)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/22/15


Lutherist:

You wrote: StrongAxe, DID YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE VIDEO I SUGGESTED, or did you look for the one you wanted, the stupid one that debunked it.

You didn't specify a specific video. You suggested looking on youtube for a name. I looked for that exact name, and many videos came up. I wasn't sure which video to watch, but I saw one that had the exact image of the three characters you said earlier, so I watched that. I had no pre-conceptions. It happened to address the points you brought up, and explained why they didn't work. Did you watch it?

And as I said earlier, I agree that Islam does fit many of the Biblical warnings of the Revelation, just not that particular one.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/15


David, please go back and read it again.....it ALSO SAYS, and those for the Word of God. SOOOO it is not EXCLUSIVELY for those beheaded.

Paul was beheaded.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/15


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, AND for the word of God, AND which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/15


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Lutherist
There are many folks with convincing theories, but if they go against what's written in the Bible, they are wrong.
---David on 8/22/15


When Constantinople fell the Sultan gave freedom to Christians and Jews. He invited them to live in his new capitol.

Yes in different times in history and different leaders they did murder all Christians. But in the Koran Muhammed said not to murder Jews or Christians. They could murder monks and some other leaders though.

Been awhile since I read the Koran so I should look up the passage.

By the way Muslims are taught that Christian means Roman Catholic and so all Christians were crusaders.

The First Crusade had Christians fleeing since the Crusaders under Peter the Hermit murdered more Christians then Muslims.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/22/15


Learner 2, True. Some people believe that an Islamic leader must be the Anti-Christ, partly on account of Revelation 20:4 that prophesies of future beheadings.

MEANING that they "most certainly must be done by the Islamic sword".

That's why I mentioned earlier about the GUILLOTINES stored up in the States of Montana and Georgia (Google it.)

The beheadings will be done by Guillotines.

And, the Adventists are close to the truth about the Bestial Mark (they believe that the day of Sunday is the Mark itself).

But, it's Sunday Law that will be put in effect.
It will be the worship day assigned to worship the Anti-Christ.
The Bestial Mark will be "distributed" at these Sunday Churches.
---Gordon on 8/22/15


\\I can't help you open your minds if your first response is always to
dismiss anything and everything that doesn't fit into your little box\\

I see you're projecting again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/22/15


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Lutherist
A very interesting history lesson, but there are many errors in your summation, according to what's written in the Bible.
For starters, everything Jesus said in (Matthew 24) has already taken place according to you.

We must also take into account (Revelation 7:4-8), since this passage states the 144,000 are marked before the 1000 year reign begins (Revelation 7:14).

Why are the 144,000 marked? To protect them from the wrath that God will deliver to the remaining inhabitants of the Earth. (Revelation 9:4) & (Revelation 7:3)
---David on 8/21/15


Cluny, StrongAxe,

I can't help you open your minds if your first response is always to
dismiss anything and everything that doesn't fit into your little box.

StrongAxe, DID YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE VIDEO I SUGGESTED, or did you look for the one you wanted, the stupid one that debunked it.

I am disappointed. The one I suggested was very enlightening and ACURATE. I looked up many other sources for the images, and the video I suggested was completely accurate. I was hoping for much more from you.

Cluny, your response is EXACTLY what I expected. An ignorant response to something you haven't seen.

God bless you all!
---Lutherist on 8/21/15


\\When you examine the pictures of the actual manuscripts, then we could have a good conversation.\\

And whence did you get these actual manuscripts, Lutherist?

I realize, of course, that EVERYTHING on the internet is true.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/21/15


Lutherist, I think you are mistaken. Why is it that so many Christian and Jewish communities preferred to live under the Muslim caliphate rather than under the Byzantine emperor during the early Middle Ages?
---learner2 on 8/21/15


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Lutherist:

You said: When you examine the pictures of the actual manuscripts, then we could have a good conversation.
PLEASE Google... YouTube Islam = Mark of the Beast
THEN we can talk about it.


I did what you suggested, and the first video that looked on point (i.e. actually showed the characters in question) was "Walid Shoebat's Mark of the Beast Theory Debunked - Islamic Antichrist Debunked - Chris White ". This totally refutes the "Arabic writing in Revelation" theory.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


History Lesson,

Mohammed's army swept through the Middle East beheading everyone who would not convert. By 689AD Christianity was virtually eradicated from the Middle East.

Then Islam attacked Spain, and France. Islam's advance ended at the battle of Tours in 732AD.

Islam then turned on Eastern Europe. Constantinople quickly fell and for over 200 years the Turks rampaged their way through Eastern Europe.

In the decisive Battle of Vienna on September 11 in 1683, the Turks were defeated.

Those who were martyred from 689AD-1683AD (1,000 years), came to life and ruled with Christ, IN HEAVEN. (Revelation 6:9-11) (Revelation 20:4)

But it isn't over. The final Jihad began on September 11, 2001.
---Lutherist on 8/21/15


Gordon believes the antichrist will institute Noahide law, which requires the beheading of any gentile for even the most minor infraction.
---learner2 on 8/21/15


StrongAxe,

When you examine the pictures of the actual manuscripts, then we could have a good conversation.

PLEASE Google... YouTube Islam = Mark of the Beast

THEN we can talk about it.
---Lutherist on 8/21/15


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Mark
Should we discount a verse just because it disagrees with what we believe, as you have with (Revelation 20:40-5)?

You say you believe in two resurrections, both are clearly mentioned in (Revelation 20:4-5).
The first, according to the passage, can not happen before the tribulation, because the beheadings happen, during the tribulation...And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands.

The 2nd resurrection in verse 5...But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

Pre-Trib Resurrection?
---David on 8/21/15


Lutherist:

I agree that there is much evidence that Islam is related to the Beast (e.g. Mecca stands on 7 hills, Muslims behead Christians, "he who hates me loves death", etc.). I was not questioning the validity of your claims, just the logic you use to reach them.

e.g. His depiction of what he saw could very easily be Arabic symbols.

They could just as well have been emoticons. You don't know. You can't develop a theory that contradicts what the Bible actually says unless you have some pretty ironclad evidence. Otherwise, it is merely a dubious conjecture. And, as I pointed out, the Arabic for what you said doesn't remotely resemble the Greek letters for 666.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


\\My point about there not being a BCV for every detail of End-Times occurrences is there are going to be things happening today, in these End-Times, which were not directly prophesied about in the Scriptures. \\

In other words, you have no proof that guillotines will be used during the tribulation to kill Christians.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/20/15


StrongAxe, and anyone else who is interested a real discussion,

A picture is worth a thousand words. StrongAxe, if you are really interested... go to Youtube and enter ( Islam = The Mark of the Beast )
---Lutherist on 8/20/15


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No offense, Monk. But, you contending my statement about there not being a BCV for every detail about modern occurrences has nothing to do with your point about the existence of modern means of Evangelizing.

My point about there not being a BCV for every detail of End-Times occurrences is there are going to be things happening today, in these End-Times, which were not directly prophesied about in the Scriptures.

And, I mean DETAILS, not just basic foundational statements or mentionings of End-Times events, for those do exist in the Holy Canon Scriptures
---Gordon on 8/20/15


Mark Eaton said, " I do believe in a Pre-Millennial Second Coming of Jesus and a Millennial Reign of Jesus. And I expect to take part in that Millennial Reign of Jesus."

My sister in law believes in a Pre-Trib Rapture too. She also believes that her personal feces are not odiferous. Besides that, she is a good lady that has treated my brother well 40 years or so. So I put up with her quirks.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/20/15


Unfortunately, due to the 125-word posting limitations on this site, quoting more than one verse leaves little space to actually say anything else...
---StrongAxe on 8/19/15

My point was that we should not make doctrinal cases on the reading of one verse.

We must use Scripture to understand Scripture and when we see something in only one verse, perhaps we do not really understand what is says and means.

Such is case with Rev. 20:4. David's understanding of that verse led him to say that only those beheaded during the Tribulation would enter into the Millennium. Yet there are many other verses that seem to contradict David's understanding.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/20/15


I came to know him as I sat alone, reading through his Gospels.... who do you believe will be saved in this resurrection?
---David on 8/20/15

First, let me say that I think it is dangerous if you ONLY read and study alone. You need to interact, converse, and discuss Scripture with other Believers as we do here. Remember, Iron sharpens Iron and you need to be involved the community of Believers so that doctrinal errors do not occur in your understanding.

Next, I believe the holy and righteous will be resurrected on the first resurrection. We are told that the dead in Christ will rise first and that the saints who are alive will follow next. Unbelievers are not mentioned here.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/20/15


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Cluny,

Once again you have proven to be the most closed-minded person on this Blog Site.

Simply for the purpose of discussion, I suggested that there is in Christian circles the discussion of perhaps what John put down on paper was not Greek letters (numbers).

If you actually read your Bible once in a while, you would know that John was not told to write "Numbers". John was told to write what he "SAW". His depiction of what he saw could very easily be Arabic symbols.

Since Islam is clearly the "Great Sword" of Seal 2, this possibility has merit for at least a polite discussion.

Also... There's no "Device" that could write these symbols on a piece of cloth?? Really!!
---Lutherist on 8/19/15


Lutherist:

You said: the symbols interpreted as 666 may not actually be Greek letters, but Arabic symbols. Read from right to left, these Arabic symbols are translated as "In the name of Allah".

Can you cite any sources that support this theory? I've never heard it before.

First, Arabic writing did not evolve until several centuries A.D. Second, "Bismillah" is written as "BSM'LLH", 7 letters, not 3. Third, none of the three Greek letters for "666" (chi xi digamma) bear any resemblance to these.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/15


Unfortunately for us, Jesus did not think with a Western mind and did not provide answers in a linear manner. Jesus provided answers to the three questions in a Eastern circular manner.--Mark_Eaton on 8/19/15


Mark
I was completely ignorant about Jesus Christ before he became my Lord. I came to know him as I sat alone, reading through his Gospels. If Jesus taught as you believe, I would still be ignorant of him.

With that said, Let me ask you a question without use of the Bible.
You say you believe in a Pre-Millennial Second Coming of Jesus Christ, who do you believe will be saved in this resurrection?
---David on 8/20/15


\\For those who have studied the manuscripts (Re 20:4), the symbols interpreted as 666 may not actually be Greek letters, but Arabic symbols. Read from right to left, these Arabic symbols are translated as "In the name of Allah".\\

Except for the fact that they are the Greek alphabetical numerals, and not the Hindu-Arabic numbers (which did not come into Graeco-Roman lands until centuries after the writing of Revelation), you are right.

]]First, Devout followers of Mohammed and Allah wear this exact symbol as a headband .....

...converts to Islam were often required to wear this symbol of loyalty to Islam.
]]

Right again, except there's no such device as you describe.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/15


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For those who have studied the manuscripts (Re 20:4), the symbols interpreted as 666 may not actually be Greek letters, but Arabic symbols. Read from right to left, these Arabic symbols are translated as "In the name of Allah".

This is interesting for three reasons.

First, Devout followers of Mohammed and Allah wear this exact symbol as a headband and as a wristband on their right hand (See pictures of Islamic terrorist groups).

Second, During the first and second Jihad against Christendom, converts to Islam were often required to wear this symbol of loyalty to Islam.

Thirdly, Those who refused this mark and were martyred, were killed during this 1,000 year period (590-1683). See (Re 6:9-11)
---Lutherist on 8/19/15


\\Cluny, Just pray to GOD, with all seriousness and sincerity, and ask if what I'm saying is true or not.\\

I did. He told me you were wrong.

Don't just simply take my word for it without seeking GOD's Guidance.

\\People, both within and without the Church are going to shocked about what has been constructed behind-the-scenes to set up and prepare things for the coming Anti-Christ.\\

Don't worry. Your tinfoil hat will keep you out of FEMA concentration camps.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/15


Gordon said, "Expecting a BCV for every single detail in everyday, modern life occurrences is a cop-out."

No, that is not true. While the Bible doesn't talk about computers or telephones, You can still see God providing for us to be able to spread the Gospel to every place in the world. (Mat 28:19-20) "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/19/15


Mark_Eaton:

You wrote: I choose not to use one verse to understand a concept.

Unfortunately, due to the 125-word posting limitations on this site, quoting more than one verse leaves little space to actually say anything else, so it's frequently necessary to look up the context of a verse oneself.


Gordon:

You said: It will be by GUILLOTINES.

The Bible never says this. Only beheading. There are other ways of beheading, and you can see a growing trend in recent years with extremist Muslim groups, like ISIS, which is spreading like a cancer, even metastasizing to other areas.
---StrongAxe on 8/19/15


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Cluny, Just pray to GOD, with all seriousness and sincerity, and ask if what I'm saying is true or not.

Don't just simply take my word for it without seeking GOD's Guidance.

But, do some Googling for yourself.

People, both within and without the Church are going to shocked about what has been constructed behind-the-scenes to set up and prepare things for the coming Anti-Christ.

And all Hell is about to break loose in America and abroad Globally.
---Gordon on 8/19/15


Do you believe the Lord is talking about his second coming or do you believe he is referring to the second resurrection?
---David on 8/19/15

Part of Matt. 24 is the response of Jesus to three questions:

Matt 24:3 "...Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age".

Unfortunately for us, Jesus did not think with a Western mind and did not provide answers in a linear manner. Jesus provided answers to the three questions in a Eastern circular manner.

So the sequence of events is not linear (A follows B because B appears in verse 5 and A appears in verse 6) and Jesus left it up to us to figure out which answer goes with which question.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/19/15


I do believe in a Pre-Millennial Second Coming of Jesus and a Millennial Reign of Jesus. And I expect to take part in that Millennial Reign of Jesus.---Mark_Eaton

Mark
There are a great many beliefs I truly hope to understand, and I appreciate your thoughts on this subject.

With that said, Do you believe the Lord is talking about his second coming in (Matthew 24)? Or do you believe he is referring to the second resurrection?
---David on 8/19/15


Let me ask you another question. During the pretrip rapture, don't the dead also come back to life in this resurrection?
---David on 8/18/15

I am unsure if there is a Pre-Tribulation rapture. There are many theories, and have been since Jesus left the Earth. I do see the Church (BOC) depicted in Revelation 7 as the Great Multitude. Whenever that scene in Rev. 7 takes place is whenever the church leaves Earth.

I do believe in a Pre-Millennial Second Coming of Jesus and a Millennial Reign of Jesus. And I expect to take part in that Millennial Reign of Jesus.

Also, in Rev 20:4, the second set of words "I saw" are italicized, meaning they were not in the original text. Changes the understanding of the verse.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/18/15


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\\Cluny, You're going to have to do some serious research on this if you're not going to believe what I stated below.

Expecting a BCV for every single detail in everyday, modern life occurrences is a cop-out.\\

In other words, you have no proof that people will be executed by guillotines during the ascendancy of Antichrist.

In case you've not heard, mahometan jihadistas are already beheading Christians--WITHOUT guillotines.

In any case, Gordon, just WHY should I believe you at all? Please give me a reason.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/15


I choose not to use one verse to understand a concept. - Mark Eaton

Mark
Fair Enough. And Good point about the two resurrections .

Let me ask you another question. During the pretrip rapture, don't the dead also come back to life in this ressuection?
---David on 8/18/15


Cluny, You're going to have to do some serious research on this if you're not going to believe what I stated below.

Expecting a BCV for every single detail in everyday, modern life occurrences is a cop-out.

You need to get in Prayer with GOD that HE give you Understanding about what I said and about these End-Times.

The pieces will fall into place if you will DIG and RESEARCH.

GOD will not spoonfeed us forever.
---Gordon on 8/18/15


(Revelation 20:4) says the folks in the 1000 year reign, are folks who do not get the Mark of the Beast.
---David on 8/18/15

I choose not to use one verse to understand a concept.

Luke 14:14 mentions the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29 mentions the resurrection of life and the resurrection of condemnation.

Dan 12:1-3 also mentions that some shall awake to life and some to shame and contempt.

We seem to see a theme emerging. Two different resurrections, one of life and one of death. We see this also in Revelation Chapter 20.

Rev 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.

Rev 20:14 "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/18/15


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\\It will be by GUILLOTINES.\\

Give BCV where the Bible says guillotines.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/15


Perhaps your theory should also address these Scriptures?--Mark_Eaton on 8/17/15

Mark
It's not a theory, it's a logical conclusion. And I hope you will see the logic in it too, by answering this one question.

(Revelation 20:4) says the folks in the 1000 year reign, are folks who do not get the Mark of the Beast.
Is this Mark given before the Great Tribulation, or is it given during the Great Tribulation?

(Revelation 20:4) I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
---David on 8/18/15


Why do folks who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, believe they will take part in the 1,000 year reign?
---David on 8/16/15

It is because of Scripture like these. Perhaps your theory should also address these Scriptures?

2 Tim 2:12 "If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us"

Rev 3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"

Matt 25:21 "His lord said to him, Well done, good and faithful servant, you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord"
---Mark_Eaton on 8/17/15


I don't believe that only those who are beheaded will reign with Jesus for a thousand years.--barb on 8/16/15

Barb
Nor do I, for the same reason you give.
I believe the 1000 Year reign, is the reward God gives to only those, who go through this Tribulation period.

Why?

Because it's a time of testing no generation has ever had to endure. And this is why Jesus called it, a "Great Tribulation". It will be a time when the faith of the believer will be stretched to the very limit.

If one understands the reason for this reward, perhaps they will stop believing in a Pre- Tribulation rapture, which teaches they will be in the 1000 year reign, without having to go thought this period.
---David on 8/17/15


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David, I think most people believe what they want. I believed the pre-tribulation rapture until I saw it did not agree with what Jesus taught. Matt 24:30, Rev. 1:7. Every eye shall see Him.

I don't believe that only those who are beheaded will reign with Jesus for a thousand years. I believe that those redeemed from the earth in Rev 14 will first testify and preach during the 7 trumpets and that thru them a great multitude will be saved. Jesus says that anyone who endures to the end will be saved. Matt 24:13, Rev 15:1-4.

The 7 trumpets are trumpets of warning and give everyone a chance to repent by heeding the 3 angels messages. The 7 plagues are judgements for those who refuse to repent. Rev 15:5-8, Rev. 16:9.
---barb on 8/16/15


There will be those who are beheaded for Christ's name sake and there are those who will endure unto the end.

Anyone who dies in the name of the Lord, who does not denounce the Lord's name, will live, be written in the Book of Life.
---Steveng on 8/16/15


The beheadings will definitely happen during the reign of the Anti-Christ.

Some could happen before that.

It won't be Muslims, so much if at all.

It will be by GUILLOTINES.

Guillotines are stored up across the Planet.

Some are stored in America.

In the States of Montana and Georgia.

Maybe in another one, but, definitely in the two mentioned above.
---Gordon on 8/16/15


It seems that the beheadings are during the reign of the beast and during the time of the three messages. Those beheaded refuse to take the mark of the beast or the number of his name. ---barb on 8/15/15

Barb
Why do folks who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, believe they will take part in the 1,000 year reign, when the bible clearly says, it will be those beheaded during the Great Tribulation period, who take part in the 1,000 Reign?

They seem to be unknowingly, putting the cart before the horse.
---David on 8/16/15


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Sorry, I used up my quota of words before I finished my thought.

John has just seen the effect of the mark of the beast on the world and then the vision of the three angel's message. It seems that the beheadings are during the reign of the beast and during the time of the three messages. Those beheaded refuse to take the mark of the beast or the number of his name. After that John sees the Son of Man reaping the earth.
---barb on 8/15/15


Rev 20:4 "And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them, and I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their forehead or hands and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years".

Rev. 14:12-13 "Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from Heaven saying unto me, Write blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth. Yea says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours and their works do follow them".
---barb on 8/14/15


Maybe it's from the Day of Pentecost.

I think that the Book of Revelation is, among other things, an allegory of the spiritual combat (unseen warfare) in the life of a Christian.

And one of this book's messages is no matter how bad things look, God is still in control.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/14/15


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