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Forgive Or No Heaven

Matthew 6:14 and 15 addresses forgiveness. Will unforgiveness keep you from going to heaven if you have accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord? This is what our pastor teaches.

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 ---Clara_Woods on 8/18/15
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Clara, Isaiah 55:11 says

"'So shall My word be that goes forth
. . . from My mouth,
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing
. . . for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

To me, this means God's word shall do all that God Himself means by His word. So, His word shall result in the correction which Hebrews 12:4-11 says His children need tp seek.

So, if someone is unforgiving after trusting in Jesus (Ephesians 2:2), we can expect that God will correct the person, and the person will become perfected in God's love, as 1 John 4:17 says.
---Bill on 9/21/15


Trav, did you know that Jacob forgave Esau? And Esau forgave Jacob.
We also see Joseph forgave his brothers...
..Moses interceded for them ...them being his brothers.
---kathr4453 on 9/4/15

But, then that is the point. All three examples are "Brothers". Family. Esau was family. A twin. Scripture is about family. Family of Israel. Heb 8:8.

Esau is dealt with regardless.
Oba_1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them, and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau, for the LORD hath spoken it.
Rom_9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
---Trav on 9/4/15


Trav, did you know that Jacob forgave Esau? And Esau forgave Jacob. Even when Jesus was rejected and crucified by his own brothers, He said, Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

We also see Joseph forgave his brothers who tried to kill him and sold him int slavery.

When Israel sinned against God, Moses interceded for them ...them being his brothers.
---kathr4453 on 9/4/15


Amen Josef.

Love is the nature of GOD. Even love of everyone on earth.

John 3,16
---Samuelbb7 on 9/3/15


Trav on 9/3/15 That does not make them any less brothers, does not invalidate the verse, nor does it negate the believer's responsibility to love them. Even if you would consider them enemies rather than brothers or neighbors, in the words of Jesus "You have heard that it was said, you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven, for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." Mat 5:43-45
---Josef on 9/3/15




"He who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
---Josef on 9/2/15

"Brother" being the key in this.
Brother is found 354 times in scripture. Bad brothers like Esau are dealt with by GOD. Brothers are of a family. Family brothers can be the worst enemy of all.
Note this in Jeremiah's time. Reminds me of now even.
Jer 9:4 Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.
---Trav on 9/3/15


God is love, and expect no more from us than He is willing to give. "He who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. If someone says, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar, for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?" His expectation is for us as believers is to love our fellow man, and to forgive, as He, for christ sake, has forgiven us.
Jesus' prayer for those who nail Him to the cross was "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
---Josef on 9/2/15


Wow this reads like a lot of us agreeing on something.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/30/15

You're a good guy Sam. But, good guys on milk shouldn't grill steaks for men and women who need meat.
Luk_12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay, but
rather division:
Psa_139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
Psa_119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Therefore....
---Trav on 9/2/15


Wow this reads like a lot of us agreeing on something.

Praise the LORD.

GOD be with all of you.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/30/15


Will unforgiveness keep you from going to heaven if you have accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord?---Clara Woods on 8/18/15


Of course, how can you have Jesus in your heart, but not behave as HE ordered us to behave?

Forgiveness is of the will not of the emotions.

Mercy
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/15




Samuelbb7:

You said: But as Jesus said you cannot hate anyone and not forgive and be saved. So if you say you are saved and live in hate then your are lying to yourself.

Not only that, but Jesus also said that blasphemy against the Son would be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven, in this life or the next. Not even "eventually".
---StrongAxe on 8/25/15


Michael_e on 8/24/15 Amen, I stand in complete agreement.
---josef on 8/24/15


God suffered and died on the behalf of sinners, so all our sins are paid for, forgiven, and will never be imputed to us again (2 Cor 5:19-21 Rom 4:7-8)
No self sacrificial works, religious works, confessional works can forgive a single sin in your life.
Only by faith, in the finished work of Calvarys cross can we receive forgiveness and imputed righteousness by Gods grace.( Rom 4:5)
Col 1:14 we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins
Col 2:13 being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you ALL TRESPASSES,
Rom 6:7 our old man is crucified with himFor he that is dead is freed from sin.
After TRUE salvation, you do not live in sin.
---michael_e on 8/24/15


Yes Michael we have been forgiven. But some teach all sins present and future have been forgiven. Therefore they can live in sin and still be saved.

But as Jesus said you cannot hate anyone and not forgive and be saved. So if you say you are saved and live in hate then your are lying to yourself.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/24/15


To those who put their faith solely in the complete work of Christ, we have already been forgiven for Christs sake through his blood (Eph 4:32, Rom 3:24-25).
---michael_e on 8/23/15


Strong Ax

I see your point. I don't totally agree. But I can see why and how it can be misused.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/22/15


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Samuelbb7:

You said: Yes Strong Ax not that precise ritual. But the ritual does fit with the Bible statements on what to do to be saved.

So there is nothing wrong with the ritual as you call it.


I didn't say anything was wrong with it. It isn't I that consider it a ritual as such, but there are many evangelicals who say "do you accept Jesus as your personal savior?", using those exact words, and demand only one possible answer. As such, to them, it is a ritual, and to demand a ritual in order to assure salvation, one that the Bible does not command, is a dangerous thing.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


Yes Strong Ax not that precise ritual. But the ritual does fit with the Bible statements on what to do to be saved.

So there is nothing wrong with the ritual as you call it.

Good point Peter.

In the LORD's prayer Jesus said those who don't forgive will not be forgiven.

That should end the discussion.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/21/15


faithforfaith:

You wrote: The Jews were waiting for their MESSIAH (the Jewish word for SAVIOR) and they finally received their MESSIAH (in Isaiah 9:18 their "Prince of Peace").

Technically, Hebrew "moshiach" = Greek "christos" does not mean savior. It means "anointed". Prophets, priests and kings were typically invested into their offices by being anointed with oil. One might reasonably expect a divinely-appointed savior to also be anointed as a sign of legitimacy, so the word "messiah" is frequently used to mean "savior", but that is not what the word itself actually means.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


We do not ACTIVATE Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, the shedding of the lamb's blood simply HAS HAPPENED (on the cross, Jesus said "It is DONE").

The Jews were waiting for their MESSIAH (the Jewish word for SAVIOR) and they finally received their MESSIAH (in Isaiah 9:18 their "Prince of Peace").

In Hebrews1, scripture says that Jesus "made PURIFICATION for SIN"/the flesh.

We must realize that Isaiah 9:18 also says that the "Prince of Peace" will also bring the "Wonderful Counselor"/Holy Spirit for us to be counselled by (learn from). The Jews only accepted the "Prince of Peace"/Messiah (we SPIRIT-FILLED Jesus worshippers need to have a heavenly spirit of our own.
---faithforfaith on 8/20/15


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Rita_H:

You said: "NOWHERE does the Bible say to accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord."

I cannot imagine Heaven being filled with people who rejected the one who died in our place.


Nevertheless, the Bible never prescribes the specific ritual of "accept Jesus as your personal savior", as many protestant churches do.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/15


John and Cluny, yes. It is possible to forgive (which we must do) but still be hurt.

The Bible does not guarantee that forgiving will heal the hurt - only that we must forgive even if we still hurt.

We must not say 'I cannot forgive because I still feel hurt' - the Christian solution is first to consciously forgive, in your mind, and then slowly, you will feel better - but usually that is slowly, and after you forgive!
---Peter on 8/20/15


Cluny said, Almost right.

Forgiveness is a decision not feelings/emotion.

A person can forgive,yet, have hurt emotions, but truly forgiven.
---john9346 on 8/18/15


\\The answer is no because if someone has truly repented and placed their faith in Christ they will not harvor unforgiveness.\\

Almost right.

Sometimes, the best we can do with forgiveness at first is to make an act of the will to forgive, and pray that our emotions and memory will catch up with what we know should be true.

And as been said here, forgiveness is like an onion. You peel and peel, and cry and cry--and then there's another layer.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/15


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Jesus DOES NOT need to be "ACCEPTED" by a person for His sacrifice on the cross to be effective.
"known by the name WORD OF GOD".
Revelation was for THE JEWS.

THE JEWS had to formally "ACCEPT" Jesus (they were told to do so). We have no need to formally confess love for Him in order for His deeds to be effective.
---faithforfaith on 8/18/15


Clara you asked, "Will unforgiveness keep you from going to heaven if you have accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord?"

The answer is no because if someone has truly repented and placed their faith in Christ they will not harvor unforgiveness.

Also, the context of this chapter is Jesus is rebuking those whose interests are fixed on doing outward expressions.

Remember, this was before Jesus had gone to the cross.

Thanks for asking this question good question...
---john9346 on 8/18/15


We ask that we be 'forgiven our sins as we forgive those who sin against us' The two seem to go together.

"NOWHERE does the Bible say to accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord."

I cannot imagine Heaven being filled with people who rejected the one who died in our place.

HE died to save us from the punishment due to us for our sins. That makes Him our Saviour. Jesus refers to Himself as the Lord. The opposite of accepting is rejecting.
---Rita_H on 8/18/15


Act 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Philemon 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

2Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Peter3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Just take these together and you will see why we can say believe or Accept as your Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/18/15


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Scripture also points out that MAN'S "forgiveness" is meaningless and impractical (having no heavenly/spiritual effect or justice).

It is your own personal choice whether or not you really do WANT to assign justice to it (your spirit).


Rev 18:6 Render to her as she herself has rendered, and repay her double for her deeds, mix a double draught for her in the cup she mixed.

Jesus's views expressed in scripture were FOR/TO THE JEWS....they were spoken 2,000 years ago to the people who were alive at the time. I wasn't in the crowd at the time...WERE YOU?. Could you shake Jesus's hand? (or were you not one of those spoken to?).
---faithforfaith on 8/18/15


Your pastor is teaching what Jesus said.

BTW, NOWHERE does the Bible say to "accept Jesus as Savior and Lord."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/15


One who has truly received Jesus as Lord will submit to His Spirit and unforgiveness will not be an issue.
---Josef on 8/18/15


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