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Mary No Physical Death

From where, IN THE BIBLE, do Roman Catholics take their belief that Mary did not have a physical death?

Please just state WHERE (because I really want to know) and don't start any more arguments here please.

If you have no answer then don't answer.

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Ruben asked, "Is the context on Rev 5 Jesus? Is he the Male son who will rule the nation with a iron scepter?"
I think you mean verse 5 and yes it is Jesus because he was Jewish/Israel.

Ruben said, "Ok, but yet Paul tells us that " The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth""

in verse 15, the object is the church to receive Paul's Instructions.
---john9346 on 8/27/15


\\Mary was not to be praised.\\

The last verses of Ecclesiastes say, "A woman who fears the Lord shall be praised."

Do you deny that the Virgin Mary feared the Lord?

\\ Jesus only said she was blessed among women.\\

Actually, that was Elizabeth, inspired by the Holy Spirit, who said that. Also the Angel Gabriel.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/27/15


Nicole Lacey With all respect to you,I must say don't blame Non Catholics for what Muslims believe. If anyone knows about the prayer to Mary they might be led to believe that,--Darlene_1 on 8/27/15

Do you see how quickly you responded after I REPEATED John's statement:

This teaching of the worship of mary has led muslims to believe the Christian Trinity is the Father, the Son, and Mary...See sura 5:72-77 and 116.
following prayer is idolatry: Holy Mary, help those in need, give strength to the weak, comfort the sorrowful,...--john9346 on 8/25/15

Darlene, where were you on the 25th?

Please address him, I only restated his statement.

So, it was okay when he BLAMED CATHOLICS, but oh nooooo, not Protestants?????
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/27/15


\\In the Scriptures, there is no distinction between latria and dulia.---john9346 on 8/24/1\\

Actually, there is in Greek. And it's made by Jesus Himself.

"You shall WORSHIP (proskyneo) the Lord your God, and Him only you shall SERVE (latrevo)."

But in His advice to take the lowest place at parties, He said, "Then you shall have WORSHIP (proskynesis) from those who sit at meat with you."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/27/15


Nowhere!
The early Roman Congregations were quite free of Pagan mythology. But, in the fourth century, a parallel synchronistic "Church" arose that admixed various false beliefs with the true. Mary's story was blended with those virgin and child narratives that went back to Babylon, Mary / Semir-mis and T-mm-z / -ll-t / N-nl-l. Although these themselves may have been corruptions of anecdotes that went back to Noah's time (my opinion). And so, Mary now was, and could do, whatever these false and fabulous maidens could do.
---Glenn on 8/27/15




Nicole_Lacey:

You said: You see, because of Protestants like you, John9346 states Mulsims believe Mary is part of the Trinity.
Catholic NEVER said that, but Protestants SAY IT OFTEN.

Now Protestants are confusing Muslims.


I have never heard any Protestants who actually believe Catholics think Mary is part of the Trinity, although many note that many Catholics revere her as much (or even more than) Jesus. The majority of Catholic churches I knew as a child were named "Our Lady of This" or "Our Lady of That".

Islam originated in the 7th century, almost a millenium before there were any Protestants, and says Christians worship Father, Mother, and Son. Where do you think they got that idea?
---StrongAxe on 8/27/15


Nicole Lacey With all respect to you,I must say don't blame Non Catholics for what Muslims believe. If anyone knows about the prayer to Mary they might be led to believe that, Hail Mary mother of God pray for me. That alone can be misleading therefore don't blame Protestants for what some religious group believes. Now days it's easy to see most religious groups on TV. I frankly don't think anything Christians say would have any effect on Muslim beliefs,they hate Christians therefore don't believe they know what they are talking about,that they are all talk with no basis God Bless.
---Darlene_1 on 8/27/15


People, I don't think our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ needs to be protected from His mother.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/27/15


The Catholic religion was created by men. It came along between 3-400 years AD. Mary was not to be praised. Jesus only said she was blessed among women.She is not God and she had to be saved like any of us. The bible does not speak of her other then that. People in the catholic religion have been lied to since it`s beginnings.
---Lenny on 8/27/15


Nicole said, "I said Catholics DO NOT Believe Praying and Worshipping are interchangeable words."

There are no distinctions between latria and dulia in Scripture.


Muslems know and understand to pray to someone is to worship them.

It is what they call the sin of shirk.

following is latria and dulia:


My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.
---john9346 on 8/27/15




Steven G said, "I was alter boy and a few other things until I was excomunicated from the catholic church - at eight years old"

How can an eight year old boy get excommunicated from the RC church?

Only a bishop can excommunicate anyone. A priest may withhold the Eucharist for a time--to give the sinner a time to reflect and repent--but even that is rare.

So, without going into details (we don't need the details of sins) please tell us the basic reason why you feel you were excommunicated.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/27/15


ms Nicole. In reply to your comments here, you claimed that prayer..you recite over and over "Hail Mary" etc etc is now NOT praying to Mary? When questioned about the prayer, your reply....well Mary is who reveals Jesus--kathr4453

I never DENIED praying to Mary. I said Catholics DO NOT Believe Praying and Worshipping are interchangeable words.
Do you understand?

When I say the Hail Marys, I am mediating on the Life of Jesus. You only hear and Judge what you don't know.
That's why Jesus said DON'T JUDGE.

You see, because of Protestants like you, John9346 states Mulsims believe Mary is part of the Trinity.
Catholic NEVER said that, but Protestants SAY IT OFTEN.

Now Protestants are confusing Muslims.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/26/15


-john9346* Ruben asked, "What?? Who gave birth to Jesus? Mary or Israel?"

the context of rev 12 is speaking of Israel see verse 17 it gives you your answer.

Is the context on Rev 5 Jesus? Is he the Male son who will rule the nation with a iron scepter?

-john9346 *Ruben you asked, "He did not say ( I write which is the pillar and foundation of the truth, did he?)"

The subject of verse 15 is proper behavior not the church.

how did Paul say he instructed them he clearly stated, ""I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God,."

Ok, but yet Paul tells us that " The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth "
---Ruben on 8/27/15


Steveng:

You wrote: I was alter boy and a few other things until I was excomunicated from the catholic church - at eight years old. I lived in Porter Ranch in Chicago, an italian community. The neighbors shunned our family when they found out what happened and we were forced to move out of the neighborhood. Boy, was my mad at me for eight years thereafter until she kicked me out of the house at sixteen giving me a one way plane ticket to Los Angeles. A long story, but I won't bore you.

No wonder you have an axe to grind against the Catholic church.
---StrongAxe on 8/26/15


Ruben asked, "What?? Who gave birth to Jesus? Mary or Israel?"

the context of rev 12 is speaking of Israel see verse 17 it gives you your answer.

Ruben you asked, "He did not say ( I write which is the pillar and foundation of the truth, did he?)"

The subject of verse 15 is proper behavior not the church.

how did Paul say he instructed them he clearly stated, ""I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God,."
---john9346 on 8/26/15


Yes Elisabeth knew Mary was special. But she is not the Mediator. JESUS is.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is our High Priest. Hebrews 4:14-16

Hebrews 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,...

So why do you have to go to Mary to get to Jesus?

Revelation 12. The Woman had a crown of 12 stars. Then flees into the wilderness where Satan tries to drown her but the earth saves her.

This is symbolic of all the people of GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/25/15


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Monk_Brendan wrote: "So, not Roman Catholic per se. BTW, have you ever actually read a Catholic catechism?"

I was alter boy and a few other things until I was excomunicated from the catholic church - at eight years old. I lived in Porter Ranch in Chicago, an italian community. The neighbors shunned our family when they found out what happened and we were forced to move out of the neighborhood. Boy, was my mad at me for eight years thereafter until she kicked me out of the house at sixteen giving me a one way plane ticket to Los Angeles. A long story, but I won't bore you.
---Steveng on 8/25/15


Galatians 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

We know Paul was not with child. And we know Paul like the whole Body of Christ is, is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Mary is now IN Christ, just as we who are saved are. Mary DIED like all who are flesh and blood. If you believe Mary did not die, then she can't be IN CHRIST. THEN you are saying she is either an angel, OR part of the God Head. Which either is blasphemy. To say Mary is the Temple or tabernacle is to say we are in Mary, and not IN CHRIST. Again BLASPHEMY.
---kathr4453 on 8/26/15


john9346* Ruben
Was not Jesus and Mary a Jew?

What?? Who gave birth to Jesus? Mary or Israel??

john9346 *Remember book of rev is symbolism.

There is a scripture verse somewhere that says a woman gave birth to a son, who will rule all nation and was taken up to his throne..just saying!

john9346* He appealed to Written Scripture.

John, listen to Pauls words :

"Which is the Church, the pillar and foundation of the truth."

He did not say ( I write which is the pillar and foundation of the truth, did he?)

Paul appeal to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition!
---Ruben on 8/26/15


MARY IS DEAD! She can't hear your prayers.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANY THING, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.


---jerry6593 on 8/26/15


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"Mary is NOT part of the Trinity Nicole."
Thanks Kathr...


This teaching of the worship of mary has led muslims to believe the Christian Trinity is the Father, the Son, and Mary.

See sura 5:72-77 and 116.

following prayer is idolatry:

Holy Mary,
help those in need,
give strength to the weak,
comfort the sorrowful,
pray for God's people,
assist the clergy,
intercede for religious.
Mary all who seek your help
experience your unfailing protection.
Amen.
---john9346 on 8/25/15


ms Nicole. In reply to your comments here, you claimed that prayer..you recite over and over "Hail Mary" etc etc is now NOT praying to Mary? When questioned about the prayer, your reply....well Mary is who reveals Jesus........

No dear lady, the Holy Spirit who illuminates the WORD OF GOD reveals Jesus. HOW you might ask? Ans: by the conviction of SIN, just as scripture tells us.
---kathr4453 on 8/25/15


It's Jesus who shows us the Father. No one can come to the Father except through His Son. The Holy Spirit is who reveals Jesus to us. Mary is NOT part of the Trinity Nicole.--kathr4453 on 8/25/15

My friend, as you can see I DID NOT SAY SHE WAS PART OF THE TRINITY YOU DID.

But, I will give you Scripture as you asked.

"where it's Mary who shows us Jesus?"- Kathr

Luke 1:39-56
"Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! [43] But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? [44] As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

It is a sin to LIE on others.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/15


Ruben you asked, "Are u saying Israel gave birth to Jesus and not Mary?"
Was not Jesus and Mary a Jew?

Remember book of rev is symbolism.

"What Paul did not do was to say that scripture is the pillar and foundation of truth??

Ruben, listen to Paul's Words, ""I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God,."

He appealed to Written Scripture.
---john9346 on 8/25/15


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john9346* Ruben Rev 12 is speaking of Israel and rev 11 is referring to the 2 witnesses.

Are u saying Israel gave birth to Jesus and not Mary?

Rev 12:5 " She gave birth to a son, a male son, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."

Is this male son Jesus, Y or N?


john9346* which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth."

Ruben, tell me what did paul do so people would know how they are to conduct themselves in the church which is the pillar and support of the truth??"

What Paul did not do was to say that scripture is the pillar and foundation of truth??
---Ruben on 8/25/15


Even as you wrote it out you can see you are asking Mary to SHOW YOU JESUS.

---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/15

Please show us any scripture Nicole where it's Mary who shows us Jesus? It's Jesus who shows us the Father. No one can come to the Father except through His Son. The Holy Spirit is who reveals Jesus to us. Mary is NOT part of the Trinity Nicole. And if you insist no one can see Jesus except Mary reveal Him.....you are saying she is part of the Godhead. That's BLASPHEMY.
---kathr4453 on 8/25/15


Sorry. I was quoting the Dictionary. I was giving you the meaning of the words. Which is why I placed the word Dictionary in front.

1Th 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/25/15


"In our 73 book Bible or your 66 book Bible there isn't any words 'latria or dulia' in the first place."

Ex 20:5 worship (latria) serve (dulia) no distinction also Gal 4: slaves (dulia)

"Just as when I ask a mother can I please see her baby."

Nicole, listen to Jesus's Words to you,

"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son." "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it." John 14:13-14.
---john9346 on 8/25/15


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Samuel, please do better on citing your sources.

The act of venerating or the state of being venerated.
& #8203,Profound reverence, respect or awe.
Religious zeal, idolatry or devotion.---Samuelbb7 on 8/24/15

There isn't a # 8203 in the CCC. What are you quoting?
Nothing from the Catholic Church for sure.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/15


FWIW, I checked the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and looked up Assumption of the Virgin.

It quotes the Orthodox hymn (also used by Byzantine Catholics) which says in so many words that she did suffer physical death.

Any questions?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/24/15


1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and One mediator between God and men , the man Jesus Christ,
---Richardc on 8/24/15


And I've heard in said from the pulpit that unless you walked down the aisle to the invitation hymn (nowhere in scripture), you couldn't be saved.

Now you see why I'm Orthodox. Cluny

No I don't. I just see why you would not be a member of that church.

Thank you John.

Dictionary
veneration

The act of venerating or the state of being venerated.
& #8203,Profound reverence, respect or awe.
Religious zeal, idolatry or devotion.

I have seen it used as a synonym for worshiping.

When veneration looks and sounds like worshiping. How can you say they are different?
---Samuelbb7 on 8/24/15


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In the Scriptures, there is no distinction between latria and dulia.---john9346 on 8/24/15

In our 73 book Bible or your 66 book Bible there isn't any words 'latria or dulia' in the first place.

So how can you states there isn't a distinction?????

Please give chapter or verse with the words latria or dulia?

I never seen it before.

Read slowly the prayer you so wrote out.

Even as you wrote it out you can see you are asking Mary to SHOW YOU JESUS.

Just as when I ask a mother can I please see her baby.
I don't want to see her face, but her baby.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/15


Nicole you said, "Prayer isn't a form of worship to Catholics as Protestant see it."

In the Scriptures, there is no distinction between latria and dulia.

following prayer is idolatry:


Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
---john9346 on 8/24/15


Prayer is dulia a lower form of worship. Hyperdulia is the higher from given to Mary and Latria is the highest form of veneration or worship given to GOD.---Samuelbb7

YOU have to FIRST understand what you are reading before teaching someone else.
Nice try ADDING worship after veneration.

You are not telling the truth.
Give CCC# that states Dulia means worship.
Stop at veneration please.

Dulia:
1. (Roman Catholic Church) the veneration accorded to saints in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Churches, as contrasted with hyperdulia and latria

2. (Eastern Church (Greek & Russian Orthodox)) the veneration accorded to saints in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Churches, as contrasted with hyperdulia and latria
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/15


"After all, I just remembered that Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments, and I will send you a Book that everyone can interpret for himself, so you will all know the same truth."
Cluny, actually Jesus points back to what had all ready been written when he said "keep my words:" see John 14:23.

Cluny, in John 5:39, what did Jesus say testified of him was it a church or the Scriptures tell me??


There are interpretations and disagreements in rcc and orthodox as well thank God for the reformation (a rediscovery of truth)
---john9346 on 8/24/15


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\\Peter called to the people to be baptized. That is an altar call. \\

No, it isn't.

And I've heard in said from the pulpit that unless you walked down the aisle to the invitation hymn (nowhere in scripture), you couldn't be saved.

Now you see why I'm Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/24/15


Altar calls are not repugnant to Scripture. Peter called to the people to be baptized. That is an altar call.

Yes Mary physically carried Jesus. She was filled with the HOLY SPIRIT. When we are filled with the HOLY SPIRIT we are also the temple of GOD. So yes Mary and and us are temples.

I taught my niece her RCC catechism and have read it more then once.

Prayer is dulia a lower form of worship. Hyperdulia is the higher from given to Mary and Latria is the highest form of veneration or worship given to GOD.

So demigods and then GOD.

Psalms 29:2
Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name, worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

When Jesus taught us to pray. He picked only one.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/24/15


You're right, john.

After all, I just remembered that Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments, and I will send you a Book that everyone can interpret for himself, so you will all know the same truth."

Point taken?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/23/15


Steven G said, "Maybe not in scripture, but that is not the book the catholics teach from. ... The RCC uses catecism ... These books "explain" the bible using the denominations interpretations. This, they believe, gets around the verses that say "thou shalt not add or take away from is this book (supposedly the bible)."

Catechism is defined as a text summarizing the basic principles of a Christian denomination, usually in question-and-answer form.

So, not Roman Catholic per se. BTW, have you ever actually read a Catholic catechism? If not, then you do not know what you are talking about.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/23/15


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Prayer isn't a form of worship to Catholics as Protestant see it.

It is a FORM of Communication as used in the Old English.

As for Mary being the Temple of God: Hello??

Jesus was in her body for 9 months.

How is it that when Paul calls our bodies Temples of Holy Spirit you all accept it.

But nooooooo, Mary can't be the Temple of God???

The Lady carried God PHYSICALLY, but the word temple is DENIED to her? Who makes these rules?

We carry Jesus spiritually, so the word can be used for you and I, but not Mary. NOPE!

You all are so confusing to me.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/23/15


Cluny you said, "Which the Bible itself does not say anywhere."
Have you not read 2 Timothy 3:16-17, 1 Cor 4:6, and John 5:39-40??

Ruben Rev 12 is speaking of Israel and rev 11 is referring to the 2 witnesses.


"in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth."

Ruben, tell me what did paul do so people would know how they are to conduct themselves in the church which is the pillar and support of the truth??"
---john9346 on 8/23/15


Brendan, I've attended liturgy at St. Anne's Melkite Catholic Church in North Hollywood. It was done very beautifully.
---learner2 on 8/23/15


\\Quite so, and I have no intention of doing so seeing that I did not mention 'invitation hymns or altar calls'\\

Indeed, because you cannot, since you know they are traditions and precepts of men, fond things vainly invented, founded upon NO warrant of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/23/15


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Monk_Brendan wrote: "There is no teaching or Scripture that would even come close to worship of Mary."

Maybe not in scripture, but that is not the book the catholics teach from. Denominational churches teach their own doctrines not in accordance to the scriptures. The RCC uses catecism and the mormons use The Book of Mormon. These books "explain" the bible using the denominations interpretations. This, they believe, gets around the verses that say "thou shalt not add or take away from is this book (supposedly the bible).
---Steveng on 8/23/15


Learner 2 said, "Nicole, it may be that Brendan is an Old Catholic, not in communion with the pope."

No, dear soul, I am not. I am a Melkite Catholic Monastic. The Melkites are in Communion with Rome, but not under Rome. Although I myself am not from the Middle East, the Melkites and their sister church the Antiochian Orthodox are the descendents of the original Christians that lived in Palestine, Lebanon and the surrounding area.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/22/15


The assumption of Mary is just that - an "assumption". She is asleep in the grave. Only a select few have been given immortality. The rest of us must wait until the resurrection at Jesus second coming.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


---jerry6593 on 8/23/15


Nicole, there are Old Catholic monks, Anglican Monks, Coptic Monks, Armenian Apostolic monks, Malankara monks, etc.
---learner2 on 8/22/15


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john9346 * Ruben, this dogma is not 2000 years old, but soon be 65 years old.

John Rev 12 speaks about a women cloth with the sun, twelve stars on her heard and the moon under her feet and she about to give birth to a male-child who will rule the nation with a iron scepter. We know who the son is!

Another example of a biblical "assumption" is that of the two witnesses in Revelation, 11:11-12

john9346* Ruben, my faith is in The Scriptures (the bible) alone which is the only infallible rule of faith and practice.

Paul says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth( 1 Tim 3:15)

Where does Jesus tell the apostles to write everything down?
---Ruben on 8/22/15


"I noticed you did not actually answer the question, Rita, though I answered yours, and pointed out that the very question is based on a false assumption."

Quite so, and I have no intention of doing so seeing that I did not mention 'invitation hymns or altar calls'. Please pose that question to someone who did mention them.
---Rita_H on 8/22/15


Learner2, If Monk is a true Monk, he either is an Orthodox or Catholic Monk. From the past postings he seems to claim to be Roman Catholic with a Religious Order under Pope Francis.

I truly believe you are trying to be helpful Monk, but you are making things worse.

Praying is the only thing Protestants have since they threw out Temple Worship.
They do not follow Christ last Command before His death of Remembering Him in the breaking of the Bread.

Praying is communication.
Read Old English history.
We Catholics can't help it if you all confuse the word Prayer for Worship.

Christ's Body only came from Mary, so she is the Temple of Christ.
But, that Temple/Body is in Heaven now.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/22/15


\\This is what is known as hijacking someone else's question to score points. Shame on you.\\

I noticed you did not actually answer the question, Rita, though I answered yours, and pointed out that the very question is based on a false assumption.

Of course, one could just as well ask from where IN THE BIBLE do Roman Catholics come up with the multiplication table or American history.

In case it means anything to you, Orthodox believe that the Virgin did suffer physical death.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/22/15


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'Now, from WEHRE IN THE BIBLE do you get the practice of invitation hymns or altar calls?'

This is what is known as hijacking someone else's question to score points. Shame on you.

The second paragraph of my question, obviously, went unnoticed.
---Rita_H on 8/22/15


Cluny: "Which the Bible itself does not say anywhere."

Oh you silly kitty, you forgot again, didn't you?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

This means YOU!


---jerry6593 on 8/22/15


Cluny I have shown you many times and you have read the Bible verses which states the Bible is the final authority even above prophets.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

2Timothy 3,16 Jesus use of it is written. Acts 17:11,Matthew 15:9 I have more.

Yes many find no problem with Mary being the Queen of Heaven and a coredmeptix.

But the Bible does have a problem with this.

Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Mary is a blessed women and deserves respect. She is a sinner who needed to be saved. There is no such thing as the immaculate conception. Read Romans 3.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/22/15


Learner 2 said, " No one is excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church for believing that Mary is Co-redemptrix."

True. The Roman Church will not excommunicate anyone on thoughts and beliefs, as long as they are not publicly teaching what is against the teaching of the RC Church

"And many churches are dedicated to Mary, e,g., Assumption, Immaculate Conception..."

But those are churches dedicated to Mary, and not "Temples of Mary." There is no teaching or Scripture that would even come close to worship of Mary.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/22/15


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Nicole, it may be that Brendan is an Old Catholic, not in communion with the pope.
---learner2 on 8/21/15


Monk_Brendan wrote: "The teaching of the Catholic Churches is that Mary died, that her soul left her body, and that her body was taken up to heaven."

No one has gone to heaven and, as Martha said, I will see my brother at the resurrection of the last day.

Monk_Brendan wrote: "Nobody prays to Mary. We ask her to pray to God, as we do. There are no Temples of Mary"

You really need to get out of the house once in a while and learn about what is happening in the world concerning the catholics. All throughout the world people pray to Mary for blessings. They rub the statue of Mary for good luck. And they do have temples of Mary.

Mary is dead/asleep until the last day.
---Steveng on 8/21/15


\\Ruben, my faith is in The Scriptures (the bible) alone which is the only infallible rule of faith and practice.
---john9346 on 8/21/15\\

Which the Bible itself does not say anywhere.

And I'm still waiting for Rita to show me from where, IN THE BIBLE does her church have invitation hymns and altar calls.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/21/15


Monk, REALLY?

"Theres another well-known Catholic who also calls the Mother of Jesus the Co-Redemptrix: His name is Pope John Paul II. He has done so on six occasions during his post Vatican II pontificate.

What does the Co-Redemptrix title mean? From the Catholic perspective, it refers to Marys unique human participation with Jesus (and entirely subordinate to her divine Son) in the historic work of saving humanity from sin. Jesus is the only Redeemer, in the sense that he alone as the one divine mediator between God and man could redeem or buy back the human family from the bonds of Satan and sin. But God willed that the Mother of Jesus participate in this redemptive process like no other creature." Dr. Mark Miravalle
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/21/15


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No one is excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church for believing that Mary is Co-redemptrix. And there is a strong movement within the Church to dogmatize that belief. And many churches are dedicated to Mary, e,g., Assumption, Immaculate Conception...
---learner2 on 8/21/15


Steven G said, "The RCC believes that Mary did NOT died. The catholics, even the pope, pray to Mary for the forgiveness of sins and for blessings. They believe that she is the co-redemptrix - playing a role in the redemption of man. They pray repeated prayers to Mary and the other saints. .... Temples of Mary are built throughout the world."

The teaching of the Catholic Churches is that Mary died, that her soul left her body, and that her body was taken up to heaven.

While some say that she is co-redemptrix, that is also not teach teaching of the Catholic Churches. Nobody prays to Mary. We ask her to pray to God, as we do. There are no Temples of Mary

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/21/15


Rita, the problem you have is that you are asking a question following your own belief system.

It's like asking why do Muslims go to Services on Fridays and not on Saturdays or Sundays?
You may go to Services on Sunday or Saturdays, but why would you think Muslims have to go on those days?

Do you understand?

RCC do NOT believe Scriptures only. You believe that.

So, if I told you that it is a Dogma pronounced by Pope Pius VII would You accept the answer?

Munificentissimus Deus, Pope Pius XII, 1950

His Scripture basis were:
Genesis 3:15
1 Corinthians 15:54
Psalms 8:6

Authority: Matthew 16:13-19
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/21/15


"And it has not change at all."

Ruben, this dogma is not 2000 years old, but soon be 65 years old.

"He also says the Trinity does not either..."

Ruben, my faith is in The Scriptures (the bible) alone which is the only infallible rule of faith and practice.
---john9346 on 8/21/15


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Cluny wrote: An even better question, Rita, is from where do you get the idea that Roman Catholics believe that the Virgin Mary did not die physically?
The Apostolic Constitution MUNIFENTCISSIMUS DEUS makes it clear that she did.


Rita_H wrote: It is not an idea, it has been said directly to me by many Roman Catholics since I was about 8 years of age and up to the present time (a total of more than 6 decades).

This was also my experience when I was growing up. All I can say is, if the Catholic church does not teach the assumption of living Mary, or praying to icons, etc. etc. then all the clergy and official teachers who taught me and others were doing it wrong.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


\\Could you provide the context as well as the work so this quotation can be read?\\

I pulled it from everyone's favorite wiki (can't be more specific than that, rules here won't let me).

Luther's last sermon had a similar theme, which he preached on 15 August.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/21/15


Cluny you wrote, "For what it's worth, the Reformers believed in the Assumption of the Virgin after her death. For example, Heinrich Bullinger said, "For this reason we believe that the Virgin Mary, Begetter of God, the most pure bed and temple of the Holy Spirit, that is, her most holy body, was carried to heaven by angels.""

Could you provide the context as well as the work so this quotation can be read?
---john9346 on 8/20/15


I believe that Jesus is GOD incarnate but I don't follow Marian teachings. So Cluny that is not an excuse.

I don't which reformers believed in the resurrection of Mary.

But in many ways by their teaching many make the resurrection not important and unnecessary. So why argue for it?

Mary is dead. I can agree with that.

Thank you John very good point.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/15


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'An even better question, Rita, is from where do you get the idea that Roman Catholics believe that the Virgin Mary did not die physically?'

It is not an idea, it has been said directly to me by many Roman Catholics since I was about 8 years of age and up to the present time (a total of more than 6 decades).

I don't play guessing games or make things up.
---Rita_H on 8/20/15


Mary is dead.

The RCC believes that Mary did NOT died. The catholics, even the pope, pray to Mary for the forgiveness of sins and for blessings. They believe that she is the co-redemptrix - playing a role in the redemption of man. They pray repeated prayers to Mary and the other saints. They have and sell statues of these saints for people to rub for blessings. Temples of Mary are built throughout the world.

Even Martha said I know that he (her brother) shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
---Steveng on 8/20/15


\\Everyone who's died is still dead.
---learner2 on 8/20/15\\

Does this include Lazarus, the son of the widow of Nain, the daughter of the Synagogue leader, and various others whom Jesus raised from the dead, as well as Eutyches and Lydia who were raised from the dead by the Apostles?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/20/15


john9346* This is a good question because the answer contradicts the rcc that all there dogmas have never changed in 2000 years.

And it has not change at all.

john9346* the rcc does out of context use Revelations 12, Luke 1, but here is what pope john paul 2 said about this:

"the New Testament does not explictly affirm Marys Assumption," (General Audience, #3, Pope John Paul II,

He also says the Trinity does not either...
---Ruben on 8/20/15


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"Everyone who's died is still dead." And will be until the resurrection.
---Josef on 8/20/15


Rita H there is no where in the Bible that it says that Mary didn't have a physical death. After many years of Bible reading/study and taking it in college I give you my answer with confidence it is the truth. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 8/20/15


Everyone who's died is still dead.
---learner2 on 8/20/15


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