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September 23 The Tribulation

Is September the 23rd the start of the 7 year tribulation for the coming in of The New World Order?

Moderator - No

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Strongaxe you said, "Yet you seem unable to deal with one single chapter interpreting itself."

If passover is only for Jews, the law would have said that by the fact that strangers/foreigners partook establishes that it is not now reread verse 49.


To say Passover or atonement is only for Jews is to say Jesus is only for Israel.

Kathr you said, "So showing scripture that we are no longer under Law but under Grace is impossible for you to understand John?"

1 Cor 5, Gal 4, Col 2, ps 147 Exo 8 does not say the feasts have been abolished please read my friend...

church fathers Polycarp and Polycrate all understood 1 Cor 5:8 allowed the keeping of Passover
---john9346 on 9/10/15


\\Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.\\

The context of this verse concerns who is allowed to eat the Passover victim. ALL males who do must be circumcised.

Another place a similar verse is used is about what sacrificial animals can be offered. In other words, a Gentile cannot offer a frog or a turtle.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/10/15


john9346:

You said: Well what did verse 49 tell you?

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

I say again, for the third time, that this applies to foreigners who live in the land of Israel and under its jurisdiction, not foreigners everywhere else in the world.

Kathr seems unable to deal contextually with Scripture all over the map ... I wonder if Kathr is able to deal consistently contextually with a text of Scripture on this topic.

Yet you seem unable to deal with one single chapter interpreting itself.
---StrongAxe on 9/10/15


Its impossible to understand the Scriptures by using other Scriptures to contradict other Scriptures.

So showing scripture that we are no longer under Law but under Grace is impossible for you to understand John? You live in the OT John, I live in the New. The CHURCH IS NOT grafted into Israel. We are CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, and raised up a NEW CREATURES, not a RERacked Israelite.


I wonder if Kathr is able to deal consistently contextually with a text of Scripture on this topic.
---john9346 on 9/9/15


This TOPIC is discussing if one believes the 7 year Trib begins Sept 23, 2015. And what ...YOU are contextually with a text saying it does? Based on what John? John Hagee's interpretation of scripture?
---kathr4453 on 9/10/15


Strongaxe, I know you will understand this. But it will go right over John's head.

Exodus 8:25-27

25 And Pharaoh called for Moses and for Aaron, and said, Go ye, sacrifice to your God in the land.

26 And Moses said, It is not meet so to do, for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians to the Lord our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us?

27 We will go three days' journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the Lord our God, as he shall command us.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/15




Strongaxe you said, "Was there a separate law in Exo 12 for jews and stranger/foreigners??"

Well what did verse 49 tell you?

verses 43 and 45 had prerequisites "Circumcision."

Passover and Day of Atonement were in practice long before there was a Nation of Israel.
see Gen 22 and 3.


Kathr seems unable to deal contextually with Scripture all over the map Ps. Gal Cor, Col.

Its impossible to understand the Scriptures by using other Scriptures to contradict other Scriptures.

I wonder if Kathr is able to deal consistently contextually with a text of Scripture on this topic.
---john9346 on 9/9/15


john9346:

You said: Strongaxe in the verses we are discussing where does it state only the Jews are commanded to observe Passover??

God told Moses to speak to the children of Israel (i.e. to command them). He didn't tell Moses to speak to all nations. How can you command somebody to do something without actually telling them (i.e. commanding them) to do so? Was everybody in the world except Israel expected to read God's mind?

Was there a separate law in Exo 12 for jews and stranger/foreigners??

As I previously posted, in verses 43 and 45, yes.

"Allow Scripture to interprets Scriptures not your common sense my friend."

kathr4453 just did that.
---StrongAxe on 9/9/15


Trav thanks for meaning, but do you have understanding of discussion?

The meaning, "is of ones own race that is unknown, visiting, sojourning."

It says in context what I am saying, the feasts are for everyone even the stranger was commanded to keep them.

Kathr, in Col 2 in context Paul is protecting the ways in which the feasts are kept not abolishing them.

Don't forget Christians are grafted in to Israel not the other way around.

remember Passover was celebrated and kept before the law.

Samuel, you are right not a matter of salvation,however, certainly of sanctification.



The feast
---john9346 on 9/9/15


John, 1 Cor 5:8 is not telling anyone or commanding anyone to keep the Passover. psalms 147 shows clearly the judgements meaning the 10 commandments and statutes, meaning keeping the Feast days of the Tabernacle were NEVER given to the Gentiles. Sacrifice is one thing, but Passover began with God delivered ISRAEL out of Egypt. Now Christ is our Passover because we are IN CHRIST.

Just because you see feast ONCE in the NT does not mean the Church keeps any of these feast or Holy Days. The Lords supper is the Blood in the NEW Covenant. No special day is assigned to this we do in Remembrance of His death.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/15


StrongAxe wrote: ...God told Moses to speak to Israel (not the whole world). He did. See the difference?

All companies are based upon the leadership "rules" of God: one CEO, a couple of vice presidents, many managers, a whole lot more supervisors, etc. God instructed Israel to bring God's word to the world. Moses, being just one person, could not do it himself. So he taught the Israelites and the Israelites were to bring God's word to the world. The Israelites, thinking that God's word was only for them, failed to do God's instructions.
---Steveng on 9/9/15




In Exo 12:43-49 Num15:16 the law is for all Jew and Gentile.
If you read closely, both stranger and foreigner par took in Passover.
"Allow Scripture to interprets Scriptures not your common sense my friend."
---john9346 on 9/9/15

You might do well to follow your own advice. There a 6 different kinds of strangers in the Hebrew language. The one you reference is (ger/geyr)is of ones own race that is unknown, visiting, sojourning.
Regardless of this Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31 make the entire point in a very specific way.
One more thing possibly helpful to your understanding is,
jews/Judah are only 1/13th of Israel. Israel is never known collectively as "jews". Jews properly known as Judah/Judean.
---Trav on 9/9/15


Kathr you said, "This was strictly TO ISRAEL John."

Psalms 147 is a psalm of praise it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Passover was before the law.

Paul commanded all Jew and gentile in 1 Cor 5:8 to keep the Passover.

In Exo 12:43-49 and Numbers 15:16 the law is for all Jew and Gentile.
If you read closely, both stranger and foreigner par took in Passover.

Lev 23 the feasts belong to Yahweh (the Lord) not the Jews.

in church history, Christians also kept the feasts as well nonjewish.

"Allow Scripture to interprets Scriptures not your common sense my friend."

God bless,
---john9346 on 9/9/15


Colossians 2:16-17

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, ( Holydays meaning feast days,) or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.


This is what happened to those in Galatia when the LEGALISTS insisted the Gentiles needed to observe these DAYS, MONTHS and YEARS belonging to the LAW. Paul stayed to FORM CHRIST IN THEM AGAIN. Which is what "the BODY IS OF CHRIST" means.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/15


True the feasts belong to GOD not to anyone people.

But the feasts are prophetic. Since the points they made do not apply. We do not have to keep them. But if you want to nothing says you can't.

It is an individual's decision.

Anyone preparing for Sept. 23rd. I am not.

agpae
---Samuelbb7 on 9/9/15


Psalms 147: 19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.

Common sense here will tell you here, that without statutes and Judgements the feasts would make no sense.

This was strictly TO ISRAEL John.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/15


"Yes, but only the Jews are commanded to observe them, not anyone else."

Strongaxe in the verses we are discussing where does it state only the Jews are commanded to observe Passover??

Was there a separate law in Exo 12 for jews and stranger/foreigners??

Was Paul speaking to only Jews in 1 cor 5:8??
---john9346 on 9/8/15


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john9346:

You said: See Exo 12:43-49 and Numbers 15:16. There is no distinction of race. God makes clear in Lev 23 that the feasts belong to him not the Jews.

Yes, but only the Jews are commanded to observe them, not anyone else.
Exodus 12:43: ... There shall no stranger eat thereof:
12:45: A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.

Numbers 15:16: Yes. One law for the Jews and the strangers that live with them, i.e. foreigners in the land of Israel, not everywhere else.
---StrongAxe on 9/7/15


Kathr you said, "Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:8 was not instructing anyone to keep any OT feast."

1 Cor 5:8 "Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

Remember this holiday existed before Sinai.

Strongaxe you said, "And my point was that God commanded the Jews to observe them, but he didn't command the whole world to do so."

See Exo 12:43-49 and Numbers 15:16.

There is no distinction of race.

God makes clear in Lev 23 that the feasts belong to him not the Jews.
---john9346 on 9/7/15


//10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.//

Do Christians observe Sunday, Easter, Christmas, lent...?
...just saying
---Rod4Him on 9/7/15


Galatians 4:9-15

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:8 was not instructing anyone to keep any OT feast. Or was he saying these have carried over to the Church. Christ IS our Passover. Paul is addressing SIN in Cor 5:8, and addresses SIN ...read the whole letter, in reference to the Lord Supper. There is no specific DAY we are commanded to have the Lord Supper.
---kathr4453 on 9/7/15


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john9346:

You said: My point of discussion is the feast/holidays belong to God not the Jews.

And my point was that God commanded the Jews to observe them, but he didn't command the whole world to do so.
---StrongAxe on 9/6/15


StrongAxe you said, john9346: Lev. 23, Moses was instructed to speak to Israel, not the whole world."

My point of discussion is the feast/holidays belong to God not the Jews.

Even after the Resurrection of Christ the apostles taught and kept these days see 1 cor 5:8. as

The Christians after the apostles kept these Holy Days.

Strongaxe, just because something have the origin of a language it doesn't mean it is exclusive to that origin.



Lev 23:1-2 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
---john9346 on 9/6/15


What I find humorous about CERN is this huge trillion dollar machine that some say will open the portal to the abiss opening the earth to hell where all the demons etc are. Man tried to build a tower to God too. Is CERN the key to the bottomless pit where man holds the key?

It won't be surprising if some funny business goes on on Sept 23, re stock market, or an atom bomb underground setting off an earthquake, as we know it has in the past. Fear leads to mind control. But God has not given us the spirit of fear. God is in control, not man. Although ungodly man thinks he is.
---kathr4453 on 9/6/15


Steveng:

You wrote: Remember the story on Jonah?

Yes. God told Jonah to speak to Ninevah (not the whole world). He refused. In the passage I mentioned, God told Moses to speak to Israel (not the whole world). He did. See the difference?


Carla:

You wrote: The date is is significant to 'Cern' ... can't post the evidence as it involves using the internet to uncover the project

I googled it. It's mostly weird conspiracy theories (i.e. some evidence is speculative, but much is downright flimsy, of the same caliber as "It's been 20 years since the Falklands war, and 15 since Gorbachev dismantled the Soviet Union = 2015", which undermines the author's credibility.
---StrongAxe on 9/6/15


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Samuel, yep, The Four Blood Moons has been on the best sellers list. Their even making a movie from what I hear. It doesn't take a lot to research this to debunk it. Eclipses don't cause earthquakes and stars to fall or not give off their light. All these events are said to happen together. And his first three " blood moons" NOTHING HAPPENED. But Hagee needed to find something in Jewish history to try to prove his theory, which is lame considering his events happened 10 months to a year or more prior to these unique eclipses. And there are MORE Blood moons falling on Holy days than these where NOTHING HAPPENED. And no catastrophe happened on 12/12/12 either having to do with an eclipse.
---kathr4453 on 9/6/15


You are right Kathyr. One more false way to still up people to give so many of these men can make money selling books and getting others to give.

Many follow the teaching that if you give them money you will get rich.

We give to the Lord not men. Our money should spread the Gospel help the poor. Not help some preacher buy a second or third mansion.

On this Point. I was happy when Pope Francis stood for truth with the Bishop who spent millions on a mansion.

Pope Francis gained respect in my eyes for that stand.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/15


In regard to Sept 23rd or 24th, it will be interesting to see what these false teachers will then come up with when AGAIN, these dates they give do not come to pass. One sign of the end times we know is more and more false prophets will arise. This is based on John Hagee's blood moon theory. One such teaching regarding the first blood moon was 1492 when Christopher Columbus who they state was really a Jew, helped a Jewish family escape the Spanish Inquisition and brought them to America. SERIOUSLY"????
---kathr4453 on 9/5/15


StrongAxe wrote: "He was speaking to Israel, not the whole world."

Lets say you are a manager of a company. The president of the company comes to you and speaks to you about some changes to be made. He was speaking to you and you, in turn, speak to your subordinates. God chose the Israelites to bring God's word to the world so, of course, he was speaking to Israel so that they can tell the world. They also thought it was for them only that's why God punished them. Remember the story on Jonah?
---Steveng on 9/5/15


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Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood,

Well there are many many cross references to this, from OT Prophesy to Revelation. Some just say the moon will not give off light.

BUT do these events all happen together, or what. Certainly in the ORDER every single scripture states...that the SUN will become darkened FIRST before the moon turns blood red. I believe the moon turns blood red as a result of the sun being darkened FIRST. And has nothing to do with astronomy or the Jewish calendar.
---kathr453 on 9/5/15


The date is is significant to 'Cern' is this what is going to be used confusing the people of some sort of biblical disaster forcing them into accepting the New world order as a way of control ?

can't post the evidence as it involves using the internet to uncover the project
---Carla on 9/5/15


The 4th Blood Moon that is to happen Sept 23, 2015. Seeing the Jewish Calendar and their Holy Days revolves around one New moon to the next , we see no coincidences here. But we need to know John Hagee' s "Blood Moon", A term he coined himself, wants to date the beginning of the Great 7 year Tribulation.....Sept 23, 2015, the 4th Blood Moon.

There will first have to be an earthquake, then the sun turning black, and THEN the moon not giving off light. THEN 1/3 of the stars fall from heaven.
So is this symbolism or literal? How long can the earth survive without sunlight literally? And this "6th seal"is supposed to coincide with the day of Atonement? Do the first 5 coincide with Jewish Holy Days?
---kathr4454 on 9/5/15


samuelbb7:

You said: The Apostles went to all people and in the Jerusalem Council stated it was for Gentiles.

Are you saying the Roman Centurion was a Jew?


I was talking about Moses, not the New Testament.

Isaiah 49:6

Note the first half is only about Israel, and the second half, about the Gentiles, is in the future tense.


john9346:

In Lev. 23, Moses was instructed to speak to Israel, not the whole world.
---StrongAxe on 9/4/15


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Good point Strong Ax.

Ethos refers to all people. Nations refer to all people.

The Apostles went to all people and in the Jerusalem Council stated it was for Gentiles.

Are you saying the Roman Centurion was a Jew?

How about the other passages I posted. Or the passages in the Old Testament that say to be a light to the Gentiles?

Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/4/15


Strongaxe you said, "This is how one infers meaning from context when there is no formal specification."

The context would include the formal (explicit and implicit always does)

Strongaxe you said, "He was speaking to Israel, not the whole world."

Lets read all of it my friend,

Lev 23:1-2 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

If the statement, "the Feasts of the Lord" and "My Feasts." is not clear than did God not know what he wanted??
---john9346 on 9/4/15


Trav:

So, basically, you believe that the Apostles, who wrote the New Testament, got it all wrong, and we're all believing the wrong things because of that. It's curious that this is exactly what the Muslims believe as well - that Jesus was a prophet, but his Apostles distorted his teachings, so that now all Christians are apostate.


john9346:

You said: ever heard of context

This is how one infers meaning from context when there is no formal specification.

Lev 23:1 God said these Holidays belonged to him not the Jews.

Leviticus 23:1-2: And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel...

He was speaking to Israel, not the whole world.
---StrongAxe on 9/4/15


But Trav Jesus said it was also for Etnos/Nations.
Act 11:18
... Then hath God also to the etnos/nations granted repentance unto life.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/3/15

gentile is a roman/latin cloak. Substitute the original meanings, Etnos/nations reveals and explains these scriptures you are stumbling over. Ethnos/Nations of Israel. The divorced/put away Northern house of Ten.
Note that the woman at the well's lineage father was Jacob. She was a Lost Sheep. Christ recognized her. Disciples didn't.
Joh 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
---Trav on 9/4/15


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But Trav Jesus said it was also for Gentiles.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/3/15

Christ never used the word the way you interpret it. If he did then the Apostles erred/disobeyed. As well as you. You err only because of your misguided understanding of the word.
Now when you been shown and told... it is no longer an error/ignorance, it is a choice.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
---Trav on 9/4/15


Strongaxe you said, "We have to. The Bible is not a formal specification."

Well, my friend ever heard of context, context, and context??

Is God infallible or is man infallible??

It is God who gave and enabled man to recognize the bible.

Strongaxe you said, ""Yom Kippur" in Hebrew literally means "day of atonement". How is this not Jewish? I'm not sure what you mean by "not Jewish"."

Just because the word is a Hebrew origin doesn't mean it is exclusive to that race/class of people.

Remember Lev 23:1 God said these Holidays belonged to him not the Jews.
---john9346 on 9/4/15


But Trav Jesus said it was also for Gentiles.

Matthew 12:18
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen, my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Read John 4:4-30, 12:20-23 Matthew 8:5-13, 15:21-28 Luke 7:7-10, 17:11-19

John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 10:1-48

Act 11:18
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/3/15


Steveng:

You said: Denominational christians interprets the bible using worldly knowledge.

We have to. The Bible is not a formal specification. It doesn't define many terms ("evening", "bread", "death", "chariot", etc.), relying on cultural knowledge to understand these. Just try to read truly formal specifications (like laws, or computer specifications like HTML) and these will make your head spin.


john9346:

You said: Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) is not Jewish, but every see Lev 16:29-34.

"Yom Kippur" in Hebrew literally means "day of atonement". How is this not Jewish? I'm not sure what you mean by "not Jewish".
---StrongAxe on 9/3/15


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StrongAxe,//A day starts when the sun disappears, not when it appears.//

You are correct that the evening in Jewish culture and the Bible says the day starts in the evening, but it doesn't start when the sun sets. It starts when the stars come out. Tradition is the day is over and starts when three stars come out.
Nehemiah seems to confirm the stars indicate the day is over in 4:21, "So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared."
The moon can be dark up to three nights, knowing that, when would the "New Moon" start? first night, second night, or the third night?
Consequently, the New Moon in Biblical times was the first crescent. Hillel II changed it in 358 AD.
---Rod4Him on 9/3/15


Samuel you asked, "Since in Leviticus it is called the Day of Atonement. I don't understand what you mean."

What is it you don't understand?
---john9346 on 9/3/15


ESUS said the Gospel will be spread to the entire world then the end will come.
Instead of arguing dates we should be working to spread the Gospel.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/26/15

But then you've stumbled across the very reason he hasn't come. GOSPEL. It was to Israel. You know the ten sheep families you've never looked for. Nor has any other denomination in this country. You've substitute them for you. In your blindness you think you are the Gospel spreader but then can never reveal it scripturally. It is hidden to you.
Matt 10:6/15:24/Heb 8:8-10, etc,etc,etc.
And even being shown, you'll argue and avoid these in your circular doctrines. As you should for a mark and sign.
---Trav on 9/2/15


I would not say worldly knowledge but guesses based on understandings of how to interpret the Bible. One group uses tradition. Others use Dispensation ideas. We should let the Bible tell us and pray for guidance.

"Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) is not Jewish, but every see Lev 16:29-34.
john9346"


Since in Leviticus it is called the Day of Atonement. I don't understand what you mean.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/31/15


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Steveng you said, "Denominational christians interprets the bible using worldly knowledge."

Could you explain how Denominational christians interprets the bible using worldly knowledge??

Be specific so we can all understand.
---john9346 on 8/30/15


Cluny wrote: "Jews were observing Yom Kippur for centuries before Our Lord's earthly sojourn. How could they be celebrating/ remembering something that hadn't happened yet?"

How could they predict Jesus' life if is hasn't happened yet? Besides, many events that has happened in the past were/are shadows of things to come.


It's true that man and Jesus does notknow the day nor the hour, but we surely know the season and prophesy. It's too bad that denominational christians are asleep on such matters or there wouldn't be such a wide variety of opinions. Denominational christians interprets the bible using worldly knowledge instead of spiritual knowledge from the Holy Spirit.
---Steveng on 8/30/15


Rod4Him:

You said: It doesn't say the "lack of light" for a sign.

Yet days are measured from evening to evening, not the other way around. A day starts when the sun disappears, not when it appears. So it's the "lack of light" that signals the start of a new day.
---StrongAxe on 8/29/15


StrongAxe, In Genesis it says, that God put the "lights" in the heavens for signs of the years and seasons. It doesn't say the "lack of light" for a sign. There are differences of opinions. 125 words is too short to say all.
However, Rosh Chodesh means New Moon.
The moon is dark for 1.5 to 3.5 days, so in Ancient times going by the dark one wouldn't know when the New Moon was.
Hillel II changed from the light to the dark in about 358 AD. Some say when the Messiah comes back they'll change it back to the sighting of the first crecent.
It was very important for God's "appointed feasts" to be on the right day.
The Bible is not black/white (dark/light) about the issue.
---Rod4Him on 8/29/15


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Rod4Him:

You said: The Bible goes by the New Moon being the first visibility of the moon. The current Rabbis go by the dark of the moon as the New Moon...just saying.

Can you show any evidence (especially in the Bible) to support this claim? All calendars that I am aware of use the New Moon as being when the moon is totally in shadow, not the first day after that.
---StrongAxe on 8/29/15


Cluny you asked, "
Jews were observing Yom Kippur for centuries before Our Lord's earthly sojourn. How could they be celebrating/remembering something that hadn't happened yet?"

1. Have you not read Col 2:17, and Heb 8:1-6?

2. Samuel said, "True Cluny. Yom Kippor is a prophetic time pointing to the Judgment at the Second Coming."

Samuel have you not read Lev 16, Col 2:17, Heb 8:1-6 and 9:11-15??

Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) is not Jewish, but every see Lev 16:29-34.
---john9346 on 8/28/15


23rd? It'll probably be the 24th. The 23rd is the date the Jewish Rabbis set. It's not the Biblical date. The Bible goes by the New Moon being the first visibility of the moon. The current Rabbis go by the dark of the moon as the New Moon...just saying.
---Rod4Him on 8/28/15


Rita_H:

You said: Because the bible makes it clear that 'no man will ever know' (and that 'the Son doesn't know' either) it is totally pointless for any of us to try to work it out.

Actually it says "no man knows", not "no man will ever know". You can bet that when it actually happens, everybody will know. But I agree with your point.
---StrongAxe on 8/28/15


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Because the bible makes it clear that 'no man will ever know' (and that 'the Son doesn't know' either) it is totally pointless for any of us to try to work it out.
---Rita_H on 8/28/15


True Cluny. Yom Kippor is a prophetic time pointing to the Judgment at the Second Coming. Each of the God given Holy Days had prophetic significance.

Glenn thank you for your review. Beside pre-tribulation rapture ideas there are the Post Tribulationist Pre-millennium view. This says the 70s weeks are over. That the Rapture is the Second Coming. That the period of Tribulation is of unknown duration.

There is also amillennial-ism and Post Millennial-ism.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/28/15


The Bible says that no man knows as to when the Lord returns. And there are several different opinions about the tribulation. One, that Jesus paid the price for sin on the cross, most of these prophecies were fulfilled in 70 A.D., and that we are in the tribulation. Two, that the Lord's sacrifice occurred 483 years after Daniel's proclamation, the clock has stopped, and seven years are due (the tribulation). Three, is similar to #2, but that the tribulation lasts only the last 3 1/2 years *. Daniel 9:24-27, * 12:11-12, Matthew 24:4-51.
The New World Order is quite well established though, Matthew 4:8-9, 2Corinthians 4:4, Ephesians 6:12.
---Glenn on 8/27/15


\\Yom Kippur is a celebration/rememberance of the atonement of Christ \\

No, it isn't, and saying it over and over again does not make it so.

Jews were observing Yom Kippur for centuries before Our Lord's earthly sojourn. How could they be celebrating/remembering something that hadn't happened yet?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/27/15


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Cluny you said, "The Jewish religious calendar has no spiritual significance since Pentecost for Christians."

Yom Kippur is a celebration/rememberance of the atonement of Christ see Lev 23:26-32 and Col 2:16-17.

The calendar is not Jewish, but for everyone see Lev 23:1.
---john9346 on 8/27/15


\\September 23, 2015 is the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur)

For Christians it calls for deep contemplation on the atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ...\\

Does it?

Christ was not crucified on Yom Kippur, but Pesach.

The Jewish religious calendar has no spiritual significance since Pentecost for Christians.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/27/15


Richardc:

If, as both you and I agree, the Bible is all over the map about just exactly what "generation" means, you can't dogmatically assume that in this case it "must" be a specific number.
---StrongAxe on 8/26/15


While still going strong the Pretribulation rapture dispensationalist theory is running out of time. When Darby invented it this period was long in the future.

Hal Lindsey is still trying along with others to reinvent it and make it work.

The founding of Israel as a nation does not start any date or calendar.

JESUS said the Gospel will be spread to the entire world then the end will come.

As Christians we are failing at our job. Many who call themselves Christians spend more on alcohol then on missions. Many churches are abandoning the Bible.

Instead of arguing dates we should be working to spread the Gospel.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/26/15


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Strong Axe - I haven't gone over this in a long while,

Lot of people have the generation 40 - 70 - some to 100

Job 140 years - Arron 123 / Moses 120

Life span of most men right now about 70

Interesting - King David died at 70 - reign 40 years - Barzillai - 80

Jerusalem destruction 70 AD

God into math and numbers - 7 - Completeness , And Rested
---Richardc on 8/25/15


Richardc:

In the Bible, a generation was always 40 years. Even though people are supposed to live 70 years, they reproduce much earlier than that. This would make it 1988, which many people (including Camping) indicated as the date. When that didn't happen, many found ways to say "oops, we mised a bit" and slide it up again and again. Camping was adamant it was May 11, 2011. When that didn't happen, he said "Oops, my bad. September 2011". When THAT didn't happen, he got disillusioned (i.e. lost faith in the false god of his own calculations) and died soon afterwards.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/15


Strong Axe - This is the thing, - If the parable about the fig tree is about Israel becoming a State Again - 1948 - A generation will not pass - So wether it's 40 - to - 100 - years, we are at the precipice of the end,

Campings date was May 21 - 2011
---Richardc on 8/24/15


kathr4453:

You wrote: The whole concept of Sept 23, has to do with observing the Jewish Laws and their days, months and times and years. Their moons, eclipses, blood moon theories, etc.

Romans 14:5:
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---StrongAxe on 8/24/15


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Galatians 4:9-11

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

The whole concept of Sept 23, has to do with observing the Jewish Laws and their days, months and times and years. Their moons, eclipses, blood moon theories, etc.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/15


NASB Psalms 90:10
As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years,
Or if due to strength, eighty years,
Yet their pride is but labor and sorrow,
For soon it is gone and we fly away.

It is still popular to predict the end and give a date. But we should learn to not repeat the same mistakes.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/23/15


Richardc:

You wrote: There were more then a few numbers use for generation

Which makes it very easy to pick one, make a prediction, then when it doesn't pan out, say "I picked the wrong one".

Read a lot of Camping writings at the time...

Considering how often Camping predicted Jesus's return, and was proved wrong, "the boy who cried wolf" analogy applies.

Camping date May 21 2011 - and this date 2018 Starting from this point - seven years apart

It's 2015, not 2018.

Jehovah's Witnesses use this method. They predict Jesus's return, then when he doesn't do so, they say "Oh, we forgot something", and re-adjust the date. Rinse, and repeat and nauseam.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/15


StongAxe - Last time I look Israel and it becoming a state again - Parable of fig tree was easy to fine on line , There were more then a few numbers use for generation , The people that where researching this were using - Psalm 90:10 - Be leery yes,
There really no date set in stone here , Read a lot of Camping writings at the time , Thing's didn't seem to fit , I do fine it interesting that Camping date May 21 2011 - and this date 2018 Starting from this point - seven years apart ,

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - I think believers always have a watch full eye out,
---Richardc on 8/21/15


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Richardc:

Where do you get the idea that a Biblical generation is 70 years? I had always thought it was 40 years, and so did many Bible scholars. For example, there was a deluge of end-time prophecy activity in Christian circles in 1988. But it never stops. For example, Harold Camping's predictions of 2013 (after many previous predictions had failed). People will keep setting dates, and all (except perhaps one) will necessarily be wrong.

The two big dangers with date-setting are that believers will trust the dates and become disillusioned when they don't materialize, and unbelievers will hear "the boy who cried wolf" and become desensitized so when the actual events DO occur, they will ignore them.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/15


\\ If a Generation\\

IF.....

My Baptist grandmother used to say to do something nasty in one hand and IF in the other one, and see which one fills up first.

\\ is seventy years as the Bible say's \\

And where does the Bible say a generation is 70 years? BCV, please.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/21/15


/If a Generation is seventy years as the Bible say's\-Richardc on 8/20/15
The Bible says a lifetime may be 70 or 80 years, but a generation is 100 years.
Consider these parallel verses.
Gen 15:13,16 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them, and they shall afflict them four hundred years...But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full.
-As opposed to a lifespan.
Psa 90:10 The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten, and if by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their strength labour and sorrow, for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
---micha9344 on 8/21/15


What you have coming up is 2018 -

Parable of fig Tree - 24:32- 35 - Many have this as Israel becoming a state again - That happen in 1948 -

A Generation will not pass and the end will come - If a Generation is seventy years as the Bible say's - the second coming could happen around - 2018 or sometime shorty after that,
---Richardc on 8/20/15


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There's a lot of this nonsense floating around on the Internet all the time. Google "Tribulation" and any date you choose, and see for yourself.
---learner2 on 8/20/15


How did you arrive at that date? Didn't Jesus say, Matt 24:35-37"35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 8/20/15


Where did you come up with this date, Carla?

This is the latest date setting for the Rapture?

There have been a few in my lifetime, and obviously it hasn't happened yet.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/20/15


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