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Financial Crises At Some Churches

Denominaional churches throughout the world are facing financial crises and are laying off staff and missionaries - and even selling property to pay its bills. God's true church never runs out of funds, staff, and missionaries - and doesn't need money to operate. Your thoughts?

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 ---Steveng on 8/30/15
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Good thankyou Sis.Rita just found your response!you sure are right on.,.been worried about it! Mercy my husband in SouthAfrica he also is a leader in church.He would advice about that like you said it kept bothing me.That great what advice really appreciate it.it's me like bond some what!!God bless you Sis.Rita.thankyou in jesus name.
---Elena_95555 on 7/3/16


Again to Bro.Cluny,be honest most churches in the last say five to ten years that has been often they having trouble desperately need $$$$
I heard they having a hard time the churches..that where I heard it because I kept hearing It like a Broken rcord they need money.
---Elena_95555 on 7/3/16


Bro.Cluny I will give you a few Example when I used to go to.the presbyterianran.church they pretty much sell dinners and such they also gave food out side the church.Clothes too thrift Store where they sold clothing for the poor.
---Elena_95555 on 7/3/16


In short Bro.Cluny everyone I went to.they have always be complain about the govt.how strict and like that...that was my point you wanted me to.explain.I just know the church has became kind of like paranoid about the govt.far as I could see. God bless you Bro.Cluny
---Elena_95555 on 7/3/16


In short,I do understand what Sis.Rita is saying and point out I agree with her,I'm on small income and there no way me to have to feel,got put my name where I live we do not have here a checking account
I.don't see how I.should be order to have to do it.what you give is bewteen you & God.thankyou Sis.Rita
---Elena_95555 on 7/3/16




This 'financial hardship' of the church OF MAN should make it obvious that the CHURCH OF GOD is GOD HIMSELF.

For centuries, the moneychanger empire (clergy) has deliberately not taught the soul-saving truth in the scriptures (they only want our money in the collection plates and our souls in their pockets).

The Jews that we are taught should be role-models are NOT who we think they are)...
Act 16:6 having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia.

Mat 23:15 you make him twice as much a CHILD OF HELL as yourselves.

Act 7:39 Our fathers refused to obey him, but thrust him aside, and in their hearts they turned to Egypt,
---faithforfaith on 6/29/16


Elena, God tells us to be a cheerful giver (to give willingly what we feel He tells us to give). He also tells us to give in secret. If any human being tells you it must be by cheque or in a numbered envelope or any way which identifies you you should challenge or ignore this and drop in the box/plate the amount you feel that God is telling you to give. If anyone challenges your method or amount (they shouldn't be looking anyway) don't be swayed by them. They are the ones in the wrong. Scripture tells us how it should be done not a priest, vicar, minister etc.
---Rita_H on 6/29/16


\\Hi,again my point was perhaps I use the wrong words, it because the government so hard on the churches/financial wise where money goes.\\

How?

Can you give specific examples, including where, what church, and when of the government being hard on a church for financial reasons?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/28/16


Hi,again my point was perhaps I use the wrong words, it because the government so hard on the churches/financial wise where money goes..etc.
aspect the church'in general are suffering what to do or something it's rather confusing all this...just my view I could be wrong,it's confusing
---Elena_95555 on 6/28/16


Bro.Steven hope I spell your name right,have always read your posts many Times,some I really admire.I think something is not right.Our church they are Fine people but i.have confusin about the money thing,They only want.people to send checks,me myself do.not have a checking acct.for my own reasons.
---Elena_95555 on 6/27/16




In this day and time even churches have to make money to operate. Through tithes and fundraisers and many prayers God can and will make a way for the money to appear.
---Lee on 5/19/16


At Brookside Baptist Church in Boynton Beach we had financial issues. When we got a exceptional pastor to come an help rebuild us we thought that would be resolved. The Pastor , Phillip McLovin taught us that the lack of giving was a symptom of spiritual immaturity. He was right. As we grew in faith we grew in membership and in finances. The problem is a spiritual maturity problem. Address it as such. Discipleship and growth are the answers.
Cheers,
Les
---Rev_Lester_Williams on 9/22/15


We have crossed wires it seems and maybe I've misunderstood something somewhere but I'm leaving this alone now as nothing is to be achieved by continuing.
---Rita_H on 9/10/15

I agree.

God bless you.

PEACE
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/11/15


Nicole, the sentence to which I referred was 'HE said that he NEVER went to church but WAS a Roman Catholic'. That is why I said I was quoting HIM.

We have crossed wires it seems and maybe I've misunderstood something somewhere but I'm leaving this alone now as nothing is to be achieved by continuing.
---Rita_H on 9/10/15


Rita, please re read my statement. You are speaking about yourself.

Nicole, I was quoting the man himself. HE was the one who used the word NEVER, not I.
---Rita_H on 9/10/15

...I would never dream of calling him (or others like him) a protestant. I'd call him a non-Christian,---Rita_H on 9/4/15

What can I say to you?

You used the word 'NEVER' in your sentence talking about him.
You are explaining how he wasn't a Catholic but a non-Christian
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/10/15


"Never use the word never.
You lose every time."

Nicole, I was quoting the man himself. HE was the one who used the word NEVER, not I.
---Rita_H on 9/10/15


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Sweetie Rita, you are wrong and Strongaxe is correct.

",he said that he never went to church but WAS a Roman Catholic. I would never dream of calling him (or others like him) a protestant. I'd call him a non-Christian,---Rita_H on 9/4/15

If is he a Catholic he went to Church at least once when he was Baptized.

Never use the word never.
You lose every time.

Strongaxe, I was having some fun with Learner.

Once Catholic, you are always Catholic even in Hell.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/8/15


\\I don't recall ever being told that we must not use phrases that are not found in the bible.\\

Then why do you say it all the time about other people?

\\ Does the book of Cluny show 'For this purpose, SOMEONE has to be trusted.'?\\

What makes you so hateful, Rita?

\\I'm now leaving this blog and probably most of those you try to scupper.\\

Don't break my heart by reneging on your promise.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/15


I don't recall ever being told that we must not use phrases that are not found in the bible. Does the book of Cluny show 'For this purpose, SOMEONE has to be trusted.'?

I'm now leaving this blog and probably most of those you try to scupper.
---Rita_H on 9/8/15


Well said, Samuelbb7!
---Gordon on 9/8/15


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\\In our church 3 people count the offerings - some from numbered envelopes, some from unnumbered envelopes and some in cash.\\

Where do you find this practice in THE BIBLE, Rita?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/15


'For this purpose, SOMEONE has to be trusted.'

In our church 3 people count the offerings - some from numbered envelopes, some from unnumbered envelopes and some in cash. Those in numbered envelopes are recorded individually, the other two categories as totals. Those using numbered envelopes chose to do it that way. It should never be imposed on anyone.
---Rita_H on 9/7/15


Let your right hand not know what your left hand is doing. That being said no-one but me should know what I give back to God.

Matthew 6:3 & 4 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly."
---Rita_H on 9/6/15


\\Even the church finance officer should NOT know such details - but most do.\\

Good stewardship requires that careful financial records be kept.

For this purpose, SOMEONE has to be trusted.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/6/15


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Samuel, I have no idea who tithes and who doesn't, who gives generously and who does not, nor do I know the financial circumstances of ANY individual in my church, nor do they know mine.

I feel that the main difference between the generous (in real terms) givers and the mean ones will be determined by whether they are genuine born-again Christians or just 'people who attend a church', but I could be wrong.

God is the only one who SHOULD know. Even the church finance officer should NOT know such details - but most do.
---Rita_H on 9/6/15


I am sorry to say. That so often I find that those who oppose tithing oppose giving much to the church or for mission. I pray this is not always true.

But in my experience those who give poorly oppose tithe. I have also meet and know of those who say they support tithe with their mouths but not their wallets.

A Christian should give all they can. Tithe should be the start not the goal.

We owe GOD everything.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/15


Tithing is part of the old covenant. Believers are not under any part of that covenant.
---Learner2 on 9/4/15


Steveng, I agree that the true Church should never have to be doing without needed funds.

Part of the problem is that too many people in the Church are not Tithing and Giving.

Other is a result of not handling properly and wisely the money, Tithes and Offerings that DO come in.

And, other is the spending the money on things that GOD never intended.

And, people can argue 'til the cows come home that "Tithing is not commanded by GOD".

But, add Scripture with Scripture and GOD does will that HIS people give of Tithes and Offerings.

It simply requires money to run the Ministry of GOD on Earth. Even if only to supply Bibles and food and clothing for people. Also, to help those who are without.
---Gordon on 9/4/15


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\\ I'd call him a non-Christian, someone to whom 'a form of religion' has been taught more as a superstition\\

So not going to church means someone is a non-Christian.

The converse would be going to church means someone IS a Christian.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/4/15


Nicole "You are what we call: Protestants."

I know a Roman Catholic man whom I assumed attended church regularly. Just before Easter I asked him what services his church would be having and he stared at me in amazement. Long story cut short - he said that he never went to church but WAS a Roman Catholic. I would never dream of calling him (or others like him) a protestant. I'd call him a non-Christian, someone to whom 'a form of religion' has been taught more as a superstition JUST IN CASE there IS a God but no FAITH whatsoever exists in such a person. They are just as lost as those who have never been taught anything at all about our Saviour.
---Rita_H on 9/4/15


Nicole_Lacey:

learner2 said: most Roman Catholics are not particularly serious about being obedient, practicing Catholics, myself included.

You said: You are what we call: Protestants.

This is just as disingenuous as Mormons calling all Jews "gentiles".

There are Catholics who are fervent, and Catholics who are wishy-washy. There are Protestants who are fervent, and those who are wishy-washy. Protestant doesn't mean "flakey", it means "those who protest the theological errors of the Catholic church". I've known many wishy-washy Catholics who would nevertheless fight to the death to insist that they are Catholic. Mafiosos also have this attitude.
---StrongAxe on 9/3/15


\\Nicole, most Roman Catholics are not particularly serious about being obedient, practicing Catholics, myself included.
---learner2 on 9/1/15\\

That can be said about anybody's church.

I noticed when I was 5 that my family members weren't living up to what I was being taught in Sunday School, and they went to church every Sunday, too.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/2/15


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Nicole, most Roman Catholics are not particularly serious about being obedient, practicing Catholics, myself included.--learner2 on 9/1/15

You are what we call: Protestants.

Strongaxe, I am just stating that one's thinking must be godly with worldly matters.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/2/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: Strongaxe, no Church can endure any of the things you cited because you are treating it like a business.

We are not of the world, but we ARE in the world, and subject to its laws and limitations, including financial ones. Money doesn't fall like mana from heaven. If the Church (however you define it) says "don't rely on government to pay for health care, we should do it", they would need a way to finance it, and tithes and bake sales just aren't enough. I'm not criticizing any church, only pointing out that those who insist on the above ideal have wildly unrealistic expectations.
---StrongAxe on 9/2/15


Nicole, most Roman Catholics are not particularly serious about being obedient, practicing Catholics, myself included.
---learner2 on 9/1/15


Strongaxe, no Church can endure any of the things you cited because you are treating it like a business.

Only the Church who doesn't treat Jesus' Church as a business can afford ANYTHING.

The Roman Catholic Church.

1.2 Billion strong and growing.
Not monies but people
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/1/15


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---StrongAxe on 8/31/15

A person using a healthcare system not based on insurance. The insurance system is broken. By the way the government should not be in control either.
---Scott1 on 9/1/15


Scott1:

Just consider the cost of health care. I was in the hospital several times this year. I almost had a heart attack (figuratively) when I saw the invoice the hospital submitted to my insurer. It was averaging $10,000 or more a day in hospitalization, medications, and everything else. If all of this were to be paid by tithers alone (rather than insurance and government health care subsidies),it would have totally used up the tithes of over 300 people working full time earning $30,000 a year (and since most people earn less than that, a significantly larger number of people). That that's just for one sick person. What church could afford that?
---StrongAxe on 8/31/15


Just another question to get steveng's anti-denominations belief discussed.
---KarenD on 8/31/15


\\For most churches in the US if the average congregate makes poverty level income for their local area. 28% of the congregation gives a tithe. Written out in math.\\

Scott, "congregate" is a verb.

The noun you're looking for is "congregaNt".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/31/15


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The church does not live in la la land. It lives in the real world with bills and commitments. But, here is a quick little math problem.
For most churches in the US if the average congregate makes poverty level income for their local area. 28% of the congregation gives a tithe. Written out in math.
(Annual_Income/#_adults)/(pov_income*10%)=28%. My point is this if every Christian tithed (I am not including non-Christian), we would not need social security, healthcare reform, or snap and government assistance. This is not a denominational church problem but of poor commitment from the congregate assuming the leadership from pastoral staff makes tithing a priority message.
---Scott1 on 8/31/15


To get away from seeking to impress or defining prosperity the wrong way, it would help us to have a "brush arbor" church attitude.
---Geraldine on 8/31/15


A man is worthy of his hire. To live a man must eat. However, what some churches are doing (the salaries they pay, the lavish homes of their staff etc.) has become disgusting. So has their way of extracting cash from adherents (the health and wealth/'blab it and grab it' brigade) are, I believe, now reaping God's wrath. Greed now controls many churches (but definitely NOT all).

Many are leaving the prosperity gospel churches knowing it is fake and are returning to where they once belonged. God WILL have His way, in His own timing. Let us all pray about this and then 'watch this space' as God works through the genuine followers who put Him before hard cash.
---Rita_H on 8/31/15


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