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Reasons To Doubt Creation

Is there any valid reason to doubt the historical accuracy of the 6-day Creation of the Bible?

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 ---jerry6593 on 9/4/15
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john9346:

You said: Please Cite verses?

This is a ridiculous question. When you assert that something is in a chapter, YOU should be the one to show which verses say it (which you haven't done yet). I am asserting that none of them show it. If you want verses, here they are: every single one of them (do you want me to list out all the numbers?)

Pay attention, I said, "Sounds like."

The 125-word limit (which exists on this blog, and no others I have ever seen) makes it difficult to quote everything anyone says without exceeding the limit. I spend twice as much time editing my posts to squeeze them down so they will fit, as I spend writing them in the first place.
---StrongAxe on 9/18/15


\\ All your mystical mumbo-jumbo aside, any fool can distinguish the difference in taste between flesh and a cracker, and between wine and blood. \\

I've already explained about the difference in Thomistic theology between substance (what makes a thing what it really is, which cannot be perceived) and accidents (what can be weighed, measured, and perceived by the senses such as taste and touch and vision).

But I don't expect you to understand this difference, since spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

(Orthodoxy has never committed herself to this explanation of the Eucharist, btw.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/15


Strongaxe you said, "I have. There is nothing in any of it remotely suggesting that it refers to holy days but not regular sabbaths."

Please Cite verses?

Strongaxe you said, "Anyone who obeys The Two Commandments will automatically refrain from murder and adultery."

could you please provide the definition of sin my friend??

Strongaxe you said, "No, you're just assuming I am, and then judging me for it."

Pay attention, I said, "Sounds like." again question what is the definition of sin?
---john9346 on 9/18/15


/// You're kidding, right? All your mystical mumbo-jumbo aside, any fool can distinguish the difference in taste between flesh and a cracker, and between wine and blood. To "believe" in that which you know to be probably false is cognitive dissonance at its most extreme. You have been shown Christ's explanation in John 6:63:

It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


---jerry6593 on 9/18/15///

COGNITIVE DISSONANCE indeed Jerry. That's the fact of the matter which drives Cluny & his ilk to rationalize untruths as though they were true.
---Leon on 9/18/15


cluny: "jerry: Can you not see the extraordinary mental gymnastics you go through just to avoid believing that Christ gives us His Body and Blood in the Eucharist?"

You're kidding, right? All your mystical mumbo-jumbo aside, any fool can distinguish the difference in taste between flesh and a cracker, and between wine and blood. To "believe" in that which you know to be provably false is cognitive dissonance at its most extreme. You have been shown Christ's explanation in John 6:63:

It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


---jerry6593 on 9/18/15




john9346:

I have. There is nothing in any of it remotely suggesting that it refers to holy days but not regular sabbaths.

And in context why did he say no one was to judge them?

Because they were no longer under bondage to observe them.

seems you think sanctification isn't essential so its ok for someone to lie, commit adultery, fornicate, and murder don't call it sin because its judging.

Strawman argument. Wrong conclusions drawn from wrong premise. Anyone who obeys The Two Commandments will automatically refrain from murder and adultery.

you are promoting Moral Relativism.

No, you're just assuming I am, and then judging me for it.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/15


strongaxe you said, "This is reading a LOT between the lines."

Have you not read the entire chapter my friend??

Strongaxe you said, "Yet anyone who keeps bringing this point up is, in essence, saying "even if it's not 100% mandatory, you would be a better person if you did this". By doing so, they are judging the person, which is expressly what Paul said nobody should allow anyone else to do to them."

And in context why did he say no one was to judge them?

seems you think sanctification isn't essential so its ok for someone to lie, commit adultery, fornicate, and murder don't call it sin because its judging.

Sounds like you are promoting Moral Relativism.
---john9346 on 9/17/15


Faith for Faith said, "Check the video...
Minoans DISCOVERED America."


Minoans??? You've been reading Gavin Menzies, haven't you? Or at least watching videos about his theories. Remember, he also wrote 1421: The Year China Discovered America."

So, which was it? The Greeks or the Chinese?

I happen to know that St. Brendan of Clonfert (my patron saint) discovered American somewhere between 512-530 AD

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 9/17/15


john9346:

You said: Because his point was ...

This is reading a LOT between the lines.

Keeping the Sabbath or the Feasts is not a salvistic matter,however, is that of sanctification.

Yet anyone who keeps bringing this point up is, in essence, saying "even if it's not 100% mandatory, you would be a better person if you did this". By doing so, they are judging the person, which is expressly what Paul said nobody should allow anyone else to do to them.

jerry6593:

Mat 5:18

The Ten Commandments were given to Moses to give to Israel, not everyone.

Joh 14:15

Yes, the ones Jesus gave his disciples, not the 613 laws God gave to Moses.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/15


Strongaxe you asked, "If so, why would Paul enumerate new moons, holy days, and sabbaths separately?"

Because his point was how the church was keeping the Holidays not if they should keep the Holidays. His desire was that they not be influenced to depart from what they always knew was true.

Col 2:8, "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ."

Keeping the Sabbath or the Feasts is not a salvistic matter,however, is that of sanctification.
---john9346 on 9/17/15




jerry: Can you not see the extraordinary mental gymnastics you go through just to avoid believing that Christ gives us His Body and Blood in the Eucharist?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/15


StrongAxe: Can you not see the extraordinary mental gymnastics you go through just to avoid obedience to God's commands? I'll bet if you research your denomination's founding, you'd find that obedience to the Ten Commandments were original tenets.

Now, whatever the excuse, you deny the one who said:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


---jerry6593 on 9/16/15


Incorrect Strong Ax. The majority of festival pointed to the first coming of Jesus. Since we have the reality we don't need the shadow. But if someone wants to keep them we should be okay with it. The problem comes about when others demand we do it.

The Seventh day Sabbath on the other hand is in the Ten commandments of which nine are recognized and still in effect. In fact all ten are recognized as being in effect during Church History. The First day was called Sabbath by all churches.

Two of our SDA Sabbath hymns were by Sunday Sabbath Keepers.

But today both days are rejected. First day is reduced to a hour or two on Sunday Morning. The Puritans would have a major problem with that. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/15/15


jerry6593:

You said: Paul's "esteeming of a day" does ... refers to the keeping of feast days.

If so, why would Paul enumerate new moons, holy days, and sabbaths separately? That would be like saying "thou shalt not eat vegetables, nor carrots" - carrots would be superfluous.

Otherwise, the words of Christ in Mat 5:19 are a lie. So either Christ is a liar or your interpretation of Paul's words is faulty.

By your interpretation, Paul would be a liar by negating the feasts, which would be included in Matthew 5:19.

which of the "613 laws" is written on your heart?

Few, but then again, I'm not the one insisting on obeying the OT law. You are.
---StrongAxe on 9/15/15


/Here's a question for you. As a New Covenant Christian, which of the "613 laws" is written on your heart?\-jerry6593 on 9/15/15
That's an easy one, if I may, and an answer not easily accepted by followers of EGW.
The answer is: The 2 Royal Laws of Liberty: Love God and Love your neighbor, which, according to Sabbath followers, is not a "Law of God", but a "Law of Moses."
A similar question is: What law is written in the hearts of unbelievers (Rom 2:14-15)?
/why do you turn EVERY unrelated discussion into a debate about the Sabbath?-StrongAxe on 9/11/15
I have noticed that myself, but maybe that was his original intent for this thread.
---micha9344 on 9/15/15


StrongAxe: "Or do you understand God's word better than Paul?"

No, but I understand Paul's words better than you. Paul's "esteeming of a day" does not negate the Commandment, but refers to the keeping of feast days. Otherwise, the words of Christ in Mat 5:19 are a lie. So either Christ is a liar or your interpretation of Paul's words is faulty. I'll go with the latter.

Here's a question for you. As a New Covenant Christian, which of the "613 laws" is written on your heart?


---jerry6593 on 9/15/15


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I understand Paul's words.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

As well as Romans 6.
Also the Words of Jesus. Matthew 5 and John I John.

What I don't understand is why only one of the Ten Commandments which as John Wesley preached is for the Church is singled out to be disobeyed. And that those who follow the Example of Jesus are attacked.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/15/15


jerry6593:

You said: I also believe that He is called a lamb and a branch, but I don't take that literally.

Neither do I, but you take some things literally.

StrongAxe: If you don't hate the Commandments of God, why do you make them void?

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

Or do you understand God's word better than Paul?

Mat 5:19

Do you follow all 613 laws? If not, then it's pot, kettle, black.
---StrongAxe on 9/14/15


Cluny: "You claim to believe Jesus. Why not believe Him when He says that the bread and wine become His body and blood?"

Now who's going off topic? Jesus said of the communion emblems:

Joh 6:63 ... the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.

I also believe that He is called a lamb and a branch, but I don't take that literally.


StrongAxe: If you don't hate the Commandments of God, why do you make them void?

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

---jerry6593 on 9/14/15


\\You claim to believe Jesus. Why not believe Him in this?\\

You claim to believe Jesus. Why not believe Him when He says that the bread and wine become His body and blood?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/15


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jerry6593:

You said: StrongAxe: It is you who brought up cats & cakes, not me.

I mentioned those as examples, as reductio ad absurdum to your post.

How then is the Exodus account off topic?

Because what day we should worship has nothing to do with the length of time it took to create the heavens and the earth. Why bring that up?

Unfortunately for your misguided hatred of the Seventh-day Sabbath

Where have I EVER said that I "hate" the Sabbath? All I have said is that we are no longer required to observe it.
---StrongAxe on 9/13/15


StrongAxe: It is you who brought up cats & cakes, not me.

I'll restate the obvious very slowly.

(1) The subject here is the 6-day Creation account.

(2) The account given in Genesis is restated by an eyewitness (Jesus) in Exodus 20.

(3) The Exodus account uses the phrase "in six days the Lord [Jehovah] made heaven and earth". This is a short summary of Gen 1 & 2.

How then is the Exodus account off topic? Unfortunately for your misguided hatred of the Seventh-day Sabbath, it is a fact that Sabbath rest is also mentioned in both the Genesis and the Exodus accounts (Gen 2:2, Exo 20:11).

You claim to believe Jesus. Why not believe Him in this?


---jerry6593 on 9/13/15


jerry6593:

I didn't say to hide it, just to discuss it where it is appropriate. In a blog about cooking, it's inappropriate to argue about cats. In a blog about cats, it's inapporpriate to argue about cakes. In an blog about the validity of the creation account, it's inappropriate to argue about sabbath observances, since they have nothing to do with it.

Why do you re-direct virtually every blog you post in into discussion of the sabbath? The reason there are different blogs here is for people to discuss different topics, not the same topic in each one. If you are so obsessed with that topic, create a separate blog about it.

You DO believe in Jesus, don't you?

Yes, I do.
---StrongAxe on 9/12/15


From another thread, but seemed appropriate.
/The Bible says you can believe a lie and be damned.\-Cluny on 9/11/15
---micha9344 on 9/12/15


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///...True, but not all scripture is on-topic. [?] THIS blog is about Creation. [?!!!] One is free to create other blogs about other topics. Unfortunately, with the 75-message limit on each blog, if any blog gets hijacked onto an unrelated topic, there's scarcely any room to discuss the topic that is ACTUALLY under discussion. [gobbledygook]
---StrongAxe on 9/12/15///

All scripture isn't on topic? HUH?! :)

"ALL SCRIPTURE" is covered from the Genesis "CREATION" to the end times Book of Revelation. The Bible is on-topic here!

You sound like you're just trying to wiggle out of your error with a bunch of gobbledygook instead of admitting it.
---Leon on 9/12/15


Leon:

You said: ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, & is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness ..."
2 Timothy 3:16, KJV)


True, but not all scripture is on-topic. THIS blog is about Creation. One is free to create other blogs about other topics. Unfortunately, with the 75-message limit on each blog, if any blog gets hijacked onto an unrelated topic, there's scarcely any room to discuss the topic that is ACTUALLY under discussion.
---StrongAxe on 9/12/15


StrongAxe: I have overestimated your biblical acumen. Please forgive me.

The Bible tells us that:

(1) Jesus was the Creator in Genesis.

(2) Jesus was the Lawgiver in Exodus.

(3) Jesus confirmed the validity of the Creation account, the permanency of the Ten Commandments, and Moses' writings.

(4) There was indeed a hoard of Gentiles with the Israelites in the wilderness. They were called the mixed multitude. They were taught to observe the Sabbath BEFORE Mt. Sinai.

Sabbath observance is devotion to the one, true, Creator God. Why should I hide it?

You DO believe in Jesus, don't you?


---jerry6593 on 9/12/15


///jerry6593: First, we're talking about Genesis (which Moses wrote) [?!!!], not the stone tablets (which God wrote). These are totally distinct issues...
---StrongAxe on 9/11/15///

ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, & is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness ..."
2 Timothy 3:16, KJV)
---Leon on 9/11/15


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jerry6593:

First, we're talking about Genesis (which Moses wrote), not the stone tablets (which God wrote). These are totally distinct issues. I mentioned both to contrast the difference, but you're equating them. Why?

Second, Moses brought them down to the Hebrews, not the Gentiles. They had gone out into the wilderness, far away from Gentile Egyptian civilization, for quite some time before Moses went up to the mountain. If there WERE any gentiles among them, they were subject to the same law, but only by virtue of "sojourning among them".

Third, why do you turn EVERY unrelated discussion into a debate about the Sabbath?
---StrongAxe on 9/11/15


/Genesis is truth, but not detailed truth.\
How much detail do you want?
If Adam ever stubbed his toe?
Gen 1 is the first six days of creation.
Day 1 -- Heaven, Earth, darkness, light, names for each, and the measurement a normal day -- 1 evening, 1 morning, 1 daytime, 1 nighttime -- 1 day.
/it was Jesus who spoke the world into existence, not the Father.\
It was the Father through Jesus (the Word). Eph 3:9, Col 1:16
/Genesis does not contain the specifics of history that we see in King and Chronicles.\
Gen 5:1, 1Chr 1:1
/Genesis...lacks hard specifics.\-Mark_Eaton on 9/11/15
Genesis gives details on why we wear clothes, why we use a 7 day cycle, why we need a Saviour, and all real, not philosophical, history.
---micha9344 on 9/11/15


They are challenged daily that scripture is not accurate. Here is what I know...
---Trav on 9/9/15

Here is what I know.

Genesis was written 3000 years ago before modern science. It was likely oral history before it became written history. As oral history, it was not meant to answer every question, but likely to answer the question of "where did we come from".

Genesis is truth, but not detailed truth. There is more to the creation story than we know, such as it was Jesus who spoke the world into existence, not the Father. Genesis does not contain the specifics of history that we see in King and Chronicles. Genesis is smooth and lacks hard specifics.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/11/15


Moses wrote what he was either shown in vision and was inspired by the Holy Spirit. He wrote them in human words but that is the only way we can read them.

I choose to believe GOD gave us what we need to know.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/11/15


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StrongAxe: "God wrote the ten commandments on the stone tablets with his finger, but he didn't write Genesis - Moses did."

You should know that God also spoke the words in the hearing of millions of Hebrews and Gentiles and Moses brought the stone tablets down for all to see. If Moses had transcribed these words in error, there would have been much controversy. Are you sure you want to use "Moses made a mistake" as your rationale for disbelieving the Ten Commandments? Jesus believed them (He wrote them) and certified Moses' writings. Do you also think Jesus made a mistake?


---jerry6593 on 9/11/15


jerry6593:

You said: God's own eyewitness account of Creation is recounted in this scripture

God wrote the ten commandments on the stone tablets with his finger, but he didn't write Genesis - Moses did. Since Moses wrote Genesis, but didn't experience it personally, it isn't an eyewitness account. If it were, it would have said, "In the beginning I created the heavens and earth. I said 'Let there be light' and there was light, and I saw that it was good.", but it doesn't. It's written in the third person, meaning someone other than God is describing it.

God said it. That should settle the debate.

I'm not debating how many days creation took, just how long those days actually were.
---StrongAxe on 9/10/15


StroneAxe: "We are talking about Creation here"

You are a smart guy. How could you have missed that God's own eyewitness account of Creation is recounted in this scripture?

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God said it. That should settle the debate. Unfortunately, many don't seem to believe God, but prefer the ravings of crazy Uncle Charlie Darwin.


---jerry6593 on 9/10/15


So far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Gen. 111 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b)
James Barr of Oxford University, (Hebrew Scholar)

For the biblical people this was history, difficult as it is for us to accept this view.
Emanuel Tov of Hebrew University Jerusalem
---john9346 on 9/9/15


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Samuelbb7:

You said: I have usually only brought this up. When people say there is no god because we don't need him. We have evolution and science. A position that I once held.

Regardless of how many people believe that, "X doesn't exist because I don't need it" is a logical fallacy. I've heard an atheist proverb, "Man needs God like fish need a bicycle". While one could argue that position, it's crystal clear that whether or not that were true, any fish that used that logic to disbelieved in the existence of bicycles would be dead wrong.
---StrongAxe on 9/9/15


"History" (the recording of world events that has been ACCEPTED since before technological advances) has often been MISTAKEN and limited in research/study methods, but also has been intentionally distorted whenever it conflicted with what had already been taught.

If you are interested in REAL truth, look on youtube for new archaeological studies/discoveries. There are many discoveries that have simply been COVERED UP in the past because what had always been taught is considered sacred and must not be questioned.

Check the video...
Minoans DISCOVERED America
---faithforfaith on 9/9/15


You know what? We are not commanded by our Lord to show any one any thing except to point the way to Him. And arguing over the creation story does not point anyone to Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/9/15

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You haven't considered you offspring and theirs it seems. They are challenged daily that scripture is not accurate.
Here is what I know. GOD the creator of everything...does not have a Bible that contradicts itself or science. He created the science we discover. Men's ignorant/blind and or lazy doctrines contradict GOD.
---Trav on 9/9/15


I have usually only brought this up. When people say there is no god because we don't need him. We have evolution and science. A position that I once held.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/9/15


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There is reason to doubt the historical records and timelines of world history ("chronologies").

Old EGYPTIAN chronology gives a different timeline of world history than we have been taught. "MIDDLE" chronology is different also. The GLASGOW chronology was actually a Covention of historians that met in Glasgow about 40 years ago to discuss which chronology is most accurate. FOMENKO has his own chronology and so does ROHR ( or ROHL).

What we do know from Genesis 1:1 is that "In the beginning", the earth was simply a ball of matter in the universe before God performed the 7 steps of creation (because it had no useful form)....maybe 4 million years ago or more).
---faithforfaith on 9/9/15


Is there any valid reason to doubt the historical accuracy of the 6-day Creation of the Bible?
---jerry6593 on 9/4/15

Why is this so important?

I have been posting within these blogs for over 5 years now and this subject just keeps coming up and up. And I am baffled by that.

This issue is of little importance to our daily walking in the Spirit, our faith, showing love to others, and our unity of the Spirit.

This is another attempt to show the world we are right and they are wrong.

You know what? We are not commanded by our Lord to show any one any thing except to point the way to Him. And arguing over the creation story does not point anyone to Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/9/15


Yes, the Bible is not a scientific book. The point of creation story is not about creation but the power and nature of God. The Hebrews lived in a land for 400 years with many gods and a spirit living in every type of object. The purpose of the story is to show that only God by himself and out of his desire (not need) created humanity. All creations stories before the Bible have creation come from some type of struggle or war. Before Darwin the Bible was not viewed as a scientific book. I am not saying evolution is correct, far from it, only that the Bible tells the story of God and man not the story of history.
---Scott1 on 9/9/15


Cluny you said, "It could well be that our 7 day week REFLECTS the stages of creation, rather than the latter fitting into a week."

The only problem with that belief system is yom in gen 1 is litteral in linguistic lay out gen 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31, and 2:2.

Scientific Evidence supports litteral of yom as well.
---john9346 on 9/9/15


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The Sabbath Commandment is based on the days of creation. So if they were not real days. The Commandment does not work.

I wish everyone wanted to follow the Commandment.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/9/15


This depends on who and what you believe. A few months ago, I heard T.D. Jakes tell people the world came into being because God was pregnant, people need to evolve into who they want to be, and Adam was the first pregnant man.
---rob on 9/8/15


Rod4Him:

2 Pet 1:15-21 speaks of Peter being an eyewitness to Jesus, and about prophecy. Genesis is not prophecy, so the passage is not relevant here.

"Heavens and earth declare the glory of God". Why would physical evidence be so contrdictory?


jerry6593:

You said: but when the Creator explicitly commands US to work six days and rest the seventh, any meaning other than a normal ~24-hour day is intellectually dishonest

We are talking about Creation here, not sabbath-day worship (your favorite topic). Nobody said anything about countermanding that command.
---StrongAxe on 9/8/15


\\but when the Creator explicitly commands US to work six days and rest the seventh, any meaning other than a normal ~24-hour day is intellectually dishonest,\\

It could well be that our 7 day week REFLECTS the stages of creation, rather than the latter fitting into a week.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/15


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None of these discussions accomplish anything helpful. There's no good reason to continue posting on CN. I wish all of you well. So long. God bless.
---learner2 on 9/8/15


Strongaxe you said, "Whose eyewitness? Moses wrote Genesis, and he certainly wasn't alive for any of it."
2 Pet 1:15-21 has your answer.

Strongaxe you said, "Even if one accepts the 6-day creation, there's a lot of debate as to just what the word "day" means in this context.

The word in Gen 1 is the word yom which is litteral see Gen 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31, and 2:2.

The confusion here is not with Scripture, but attempting to read the Fossil Records in to the Scripture instead of the other way around.
---john9346 on 9/8/15


For the life of me, I can't see why this is so hard for some of you to grasp. Yes, the word "day" in English can mean an "age", and yes a day to God may seem as 1000 years, but when the Creator explicitly commands US to work six days and rest the seventh, any meaning other than a normal ~24-hour day is intellectually dishonest, destructive to context, and reveals a rebellious grasping at straws to get around the Commandment.

Who among you works 6000 years every week? Such arguments are vapid and vacuous.


---jerry6593 on 9/8/15


Wow, such amazing minds here, but still can't discern Peter and David.
Let's say Peter did mean 1k years to God equals one day to man. He also wrote in the same verse, according to that interpretation, that 1 day to God equals 1k years to us.
This is a relative comparison, not an absolute equation.
The same with David. He compares the timelessness of God to a day or even a watch (4 hour period). There is nothing absolute about those passages and in no way references to the context of Gen 1.
The context in Gen 1 is plain: 1 evening, 1 morning, a daytime, and a nighttime = 1 day, 1 rotation of the Earth, whether a reference point is there or not for each of the six days.
---micha9344 on 9/8/15


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trongAxe: "Whose eyewitness?"

God's! He wrote the following with His own finger in stone.

Yes, we aren't disagreeing that the creation took 6 days. Just what the word "day" meant in that context.

No rational person would construe this usage of "day" to mean a thousand years or age.

Does this mean Peter was insane when he wrote 2 Peter 3:8?

Today's English defines day as one period of rotation with respect to the sun, which happens to usually be around 24 hours, and gets periodically adjusted (see leap seconds). But not always (see Joshua's Long Day). And such a measure is meaningless when there is no sun.
---StrongAxe on 9/8/15


Excuse me for speaking for Jerry. But they are saying that for GOD a thousand years as a day is to us. They are comparing two contrasting time periods to prove a point.

They are not saying that GOD's day is a thousand years.

Scientist speculate that the earth is 4.5 to 4.7 billion years old. A thousand years is a small time on that scale.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/8/15


I don't doubt creation. Nor do I doubt 6 days. However, God created night and day, and HE can define those terms as He pleases.

If He uses a clock of 10 million years for one "day" and 83 hours for a "night," then, because He is sovereign, that "day and night" is ten million years, 83 hours long, as we measure time in this limited three dimensional universe that He created for us.

Got a problem? Don't yell at me, yell at God.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 9/8/15


\\No rational person would construe this usage of "day" to mean a thousand years or age. \\

So, when David said, "A thousand years in Your sight are as a day which is past, or a watch in the night [4 hours]," he was not rational.

Nor was St. Peter rational when he said that a day with the Lord is as 1000 years.

Is this what you are saying, jerry?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/15


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StrongAxe: "Whose eyewitness?"

God's! He wrote the following with His own finger in stone. He also spoke these words to the entire Hebrew nation and thousands of Gentiles (mixed multitude):

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

No rational person would construe this usage of "day" to mean a thousand years or age. The act of Creation in Genesis carries on today in our definition of the work week. The use of "day" is no different in today's English, and can have any of several meanings, but the whole world agrees on the length of a week.
---jerry6593 on 9/8/15


jerry6593:

You said: but is the ONLY authentic eyewitness account of Creation.

Whose eyewitness? Moses wrote Genesis, and he certainly wasn't alive for any of it.

Is there any valid reason to doubt the historical accuracy of the 6-day Creation of the Bible?

Even if one accepts the 6-day creation, there's a lot of debate as to just what the word "day" means in this context (e.g. exactly 24 hours, or perhaps something longer). We normally measure days in 24-hour time periods, but that's because of the relative position of the sun - which is not adequate, as it was impossible during the first 3 days before the sun existed.
---StrongAxe on 9/7/15


/Gordon, if you will do a careful reading of the following verses, you will understand that it is God's intention and will to save the whole human race.
1 Corinthians 15:22-28
Ephesians 1:7-10
Philippians 2:8-11
Colossians 1:19-20
1 Timothy 2:4
1 Timothy 4-10\-learner2 on 9/4/15
/Just what I said, it's not history and it's inaccurate.\-learner2 on 9/6/15
It is quite foolish to have beliefs based upon inaccuracies.
Since the Bible is unreliable (IYO), what makes you think God will save everyone?
---micha9344 on 9/7/15


Ones have said the universe is something like ten billion years old. I wonder how long would it take for the starting earth to cool down to have its present thickness of crust???? Has anyone checked if the present earth crust is the thickness which would result from ten billion years of cooling or whatever is supposed to be the correct time?

Personally, I understand God is able to make a universe in moments, but He wasn't in a hurry. Love is creative and not just rushing to get things done, but love includes enjoying. Our Father was enjoying His Son Jesus and the holy angels. So, if you think He should have taken less than six days, maybe you are workaholic??
---Bill on 9/7/15


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learner2 you stated, "Just what I said, it's not history and it's inaccurate."

Could you explain how the bible is not history and it is inaccurate??
---john9346 on 9/7/15


learner2: "Just what I said, it's not history and it's inaccurate."

You need to change your name, as you seem incapable of learning. The Bible is not only the most accurate historical record of ancient civilizations (as is attested by most qualified historians), but is the ONLY authentic eyewitness account of Creation.

Jesus authenticated the Genesis Creation account. Do you also claim that He is wrong? He was there after all.


---jerry6593 on 9/7/15


Just what I said, it's not history and it's inaccurate.
---learner2 on 9/6/15


There are those who believe in God, but don't believe God. That opens the door to all manner of speculations that runs contrary to what the Bible actually teaches. Instead of reading, hearing & adhering to the word of God (as contained in the Bible), many play god as if they were also omniscient. Howbeit?
---Leon on 9/6/15


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Learner2 you stated, "It's not even history, let alone being accurate."

What do you mean?? What's not history and inaccurate??
---john9346 on 9/6/15


Some people are looking for problems which are not there, maybe because of their own agenda.---Rita_H on 9/5/15

Rita
No, some people just read the Bible as it is written, and not according to the teachings of men.

Putting your faith in the teachings which comes from men, is one of the greatest obstacles we must overcome, if we are to learn the Truth from God.

My account is very easy to prove, if you read the Bible as it is written.
Proof?
In (Genesis 2:7-8) it clearly shows Adam was formed before God created the Garden of Eden.
And in (Genesis 2:18-23) it clearly shows Eve was created in the Garden of Eden.

In the (Genesis 1) account, both male and female were created at the same time.
---David on 9/6/15


David: "No, but there is reason to doubt Adam and Eve were created during the first 6 days of creation."

Not so. The Bible says:

Gen 1:27,31 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them. ... And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


Rita: "Some people are looking for problems which are not there, maybe because of their own agenda."

AMEN!

Some people don't even believe God Himself. He wrote with His own finger in stone:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:

That's where we get our work week.

---jerry6593 on 9/6/15


True Cluny.

But other places it means a day.

For instance

Gen 2:1-3

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This is repeated in Exodus 20. Now this has to mean a single day. Also the others are evening then morning used to signify one day.

I believe this by faith. I trust the Word of GOD.

I used to believe in evolution when I was an agnostic. I had to choose. I chose to believe in GOD.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/6/15


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There are many places in the Bible where "day" does not mean an earthly 24 hour day.

When Jesus said, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day...." was this just 24 hours?

Is the Day of the Lord only 24 hours?

Is the Day of Judgement 24 hours long?

When St. Paul said of someone who had passed on, "May the Lord show mercy to him on that day," did he mean that God should show mercy for only 24 hours?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/5/15


Yes because the Biblical creation study is not for scientific reasons.
---Scott1 on 9/5/15


It's not even history, let alone being accurate.
---learner2 on 9/5/15


I don't think that anyone believes that EVERYONE was created in six days. We are not told how much time passed before Adam and Eve had children.

God created Adam and, from Adam, Eve. They had children male and female. Siblings would have married and had a next generation and so on. The gene pool would become more varied and, eventually very distant cousins would be marrying instead of siblings. No genetic flaws originally as God created perfection.

Some people are looking for problems which are not there, maybe because of their own agenda.
---Rita_H on 9/5/15


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First the Bible says in the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth. The Bible does not say when that happened.

The way the sixth day creation is worded it seems that the earth was in existence when the six day period started. So my understanding is the Six day applies to earth as shown to Moses in a vision.

Can I prove it. No.

Many Scientist who are atheists and most who are not atheists do not believe in Creationism.

But a number do believe in intelligent design.

If you don't believe that Miracles can happen there are a lot of reasons to doubt it.

If you believe in Miracles there are some problems in understanding.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/15


Einstein's theory of relativity shows that time is fluid and not fixed.

GPS satellites' times have to be reset every day, as they lag behind terrestrial surface time every 24 hours by a fraction of a second.

If time is this flexible so close to our planet, how much more can time be bent between the created earth and the Creator?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/5/15


No, but there is reason to doubt Adam and Eve were created during the first 6 days of creation.

And through understanding Adam and Eve were created after the 6 day period, created and placed in the "Garden of Eden", many questions can logically be answered, questions that can not be answered with any degree of logic from those who believe everyone was created in 6 days.

Questions like,
Where did Cain's wife and family come from?
Who were the "Sons of God" in (Genesis 6:4)?
---David on 9/5/15


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