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Explain Romans 6:14

If Romans 6:14 says "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace," why are there those on these blogs that still believe that the Law holds?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 9/29/15
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Jerry, you keep quoting Mat 5:19 as if it only pertains to the 10. But context shows different.
Mat 5:17 uses the term "law and prophets" meaning the whole Word of God.
Mat 5:18 uses "law" not just referring to the 10.
In Mat 5:19 we see the term "least commandments."
Can you tell me Jerry which of the commandments are least?
Your bait-and-switch tactics with the "law" and the 10C are getting quite old.
---micha9344 on 4/6/16


Luke: "No Jerry, I do not teach people to obey the Ten Commandments. Unbelievers do not believe in Jesus Christ, why should I teach them to obey the Ten Commandments?"

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I guess you've made your choice.


---jerry6593 on 4/5/16


Jerry, you also say:
"do you teach people to obey the Ten Commandments or not? It seems that your story has changed."

No Jerry, I do not teach people to obey the Ten Commandments. Unbelievers do not believe in Jesus Christ, why should I teach them to obey the Ten Commandments? In fact, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it the the power of God" 1 Cor. 1:18.
To believers, I do not have to remind them because they are under grace, so the Holy Spirit is guiding them.
And those under the written letter of the Law are not guided by the Holy Spirit.
They are not under grace.
---Luke on 4/4/16


Jerry, you have no clue where you are going. How is that possible if you are a Christian? Do SDA's go to the Great White Throne of Judgment? They must since you don't know and you are a devoted SDA.
Don't you know that genuine Christians do not go to be Judge, they have been forgiven already. They go for rewards. Unbelievers are going to be judge when the books are open. And they will be sentence according to the bad they did in life.
Christians go to the Judgment Seat of Christ: Rom. 14:10-12: 1 Cor. 3:10-4:5: 2 Cor. 5:9-12.
Unbelievers go to the Great White Throne of Judgment: Rev. 20:11-15.
Hope that helps you know where you are going.
---Luke on 4/4/16


luke: "Great White Throne of Judgment. That is not where the believers go. They go to the Judgment Seat of Christ."

Just where did you get that theory? Not from the Bible. There is only one judgment.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Please show Scripture where a second judgment is discussed.


---jerry6593 on 4/4/16




luke: "Second, you said I taught people to break the law, and that is a lie"

Do you teach people to obey the Ten Commandments or not? It seems that your story has changed.



---jerry6593 on 4/4/16


Jerry, here you say:
"
You are right that we will all stand before Christ's judgment seat. I will plead that I obeyed His Commandments. What will you plead? That you disobeyed them? Good luck with that."


I said you would stand before the Great White Throne of Judgment. That is not where the believers go. They go to the Judgment Seat of Christ. You go to a different location for sentencing for believing your salvation is by the written letter of the law.
Second, you said I taught people to break the law, and that is a lie, like most of your lies when you have not truth to give. You do not know what I do.
---Luke on 4/3/16


Michael: I don't think you and I are that far apart. Had Brendan quoted the v15 it would have been clearer.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Sin is the transgression of the Law (1Jo 3:4). So it is impossible to sin without breaking the Law. Christ does not ignore our sins (breaking of the Law), but rather He pays the penalty for our transgressions when we repent. The Law still stands, but we have a Savior.

The law that we are no longer under is the law of ritual sacrifices, since Christ has fulfilled the prophecy to which those sacrifices pointed.
---jerry6593 on 4/3/16


Licenses give permission to do something that would otherwise be forbidden. The common response to the grace of God from "religious People is "it gives a license to sin".
This is predictable since grace sets you free from the condemnation of the law. Grace teaches the good news, Christ accomplished what we failed to obtain "righteousness."
It's not our works which justifies but Christs work. Someone who doesn't work righteousness can have faith unto righteousness (Rom 4:5)The law condemns and cannot bring justification to those trying to keep it (Rom 3:20). Justification must come by faith without the deeds of the law (Rom 3:28).
If the deeds of the law are not needed then we are free from its condemnation!
---michael_e on 4/2/16


//
Thank God we are "not under law but under grace"

---michael_e on 3/31/16
//


It sounds like you are now free to lie, steal, commit adultery, murder, etc. Is that what you really believe?



---jerry6593 on 4/2/16




Also in History most churches called the first day Sabbath. Puritans and many others kept it as a Sabbath. --Samuelbb7 on 3/31/16

Samuel
I went to a large southern Baptist church for 3 Years. I did my best to understand it, but left scratching my head. The most prominent teaching was tithing.

"Give money to us, and God will bless you", was all I got out of them.
And they surely didn't appreciate me giving them a history lesson on the tithe, a lesson which proved the tithe was irrelevant under the Law of Christ.

They didn't like me much because I asked them very simple questions, questions which required very difficult answers, difficult for those who teach a false doctrine.
---David on 4/2/16


Rom 6:14 "For sin (the Adamic nature) shall not have dominion over you
(Paul is telling us don't let old Adam have dominion or influence you to live the life of the flesh) for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
We have freedom, we're not under a set of rules and regulations and we can still keep Adam under subjection. That's the beauty of the Gospel of the Grace of God.
Mankind didn't always have this kind of freedom. The Nation of Israel was under the Law, and it was severe to the extreme. If someone picked up sticks on the Sabbath day the result was death. If they committed murder, there was no such thing as years of appeals. The law was demanding.
Thank God we are "not under law but under grace"
---michael_e on 3/31/16


Correct David that is one of the reasons I remember it.

But don't forget the Baptist don't have a set doctrine.

A Baptist told me you put ten Baptist in a room and you can get 12 religious opinions on the Bible.

By the way they are small but it was Seventh day Baptists who lead the Early Adventist Church to accept the Seventh day Sabbath.

Also in History most churches called the first day Sabbath. Puritans and many others kept it as a Sabbath.

Today most don't keep it at all.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/31/16


Like one Baptist church posted on the sign. God gave Ten Commandments not suggestions. ---Samuelbb7 on 3/29/16

Samuel
I hope you see the Irony in that statement, since the Baptists and many other churches trumpet, "We are not under the Law".

If they are not under the law, how can the Ten Commandments be anything more, than a suggestion?
---David on 3/31/16


David I didn't have to come up with why. Our founders wrote it down. You see when they started the teachings of many churches were different. Many especially the Methodist supported the Ten Commandments. Look up Wesley's sermons on them. Also look up Calvin and Luther on the Ten Commandments. Like one Baptist church posted on the sign. God gave Ten Commandments not suggestions.

We held up the Seventh day to say we supported all of them and would not let a breach by man be held up in the Ten Words as the Jews called them. Adventist came from that we preach the soon coming of JESUS.

So you see the 7th was to show we followed all of them. Today though men preach and teach differently. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/29/16


As a Church the Seventh day Adventist teach all of the Ten Commandments are equal to us. To disobey one is to disobey all. As James points out. ---Samuelbb7 on 3/27/16

Samuel
If this is true, why doesn't your church call itself, "The Ten Commandment Church"?

I've always wondered why you chose to keep the Sabbath above all of the others. I figure it's because it's one we can actually keep, at least in the way your church interprets the keeping of the Sabbath Law. And if that's the reason, why didn't they choose to observe the three written before the Sabbath Law in their church name?

I'm sure you've had some thoughts on this yourself. What reason have you come up with?
---David on 3/29/16


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luke: "Christ did not write what you wrote, you did."

Not true! I just quoted what Christ said in Mat 5:18,19. Do you believe Christ or not? Do you think He is a liar too?

You are right that we will all stand before Christ's judgment seat. I will plead that I obeyed His Commandments. What will you plead? That you disobeyed them? Good luck with that.


---jerry6593 on 3/29/16


Jerry, my argument is with you and what you write. Christ did not write what you wrote, you did. You make yourself so righteous just because you go to church on Saturday. As I said before, one day you will stand before God at the Great White Throne of Judgment to answer for the sins you committed against God. Tell Him how you went to Church on Saturdays.
---Luke on 3/28/16


Luke: Your argument is with Christ - not with me. It is He who said:

Mat 5:18, 19 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And just where did I make myself "so righteous"?

Are you under the New Covenant?


---jerry6593 on 3/27/16


As a Church the Seventh day Adventist teach all of the Ten Commandments are equal to us. To disobey one is to disobey all. As James points out.

The Bible is clear liars will not be in heaven.

I believe that Jerry get overzealous and speaks in a manner he shouldn't.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/27/16


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Jerry, why would you speak lies? Here you say:
"Yes Luke, the beings in heaven are talking about YOU because you refuse to obey God's Law and you teach men so."

You make yourself so righteous, the example I was giving Samuel concerning SDA's believes. They think they are so righteous because they do Saturday Sabbath, and all their other sins don't count. You are the reason I mention what I do to Samuel. You are a good example. You speak lies about me but those sins don't count either. You slander also, that must not count either. When you get to the Great White Throne of Judgment you can tell God you did Saturday Sabbath and not to count your other sins.
---Luke on 3/26/16


I am sorry Luke. I meant to say what my stand and hope is. I didn't say that others are not doing this. Nor point fingers at anyone. First of all since I cannot know their hearts.

In my mind I was trying to encourage others to follow my example and look to Jesus and follow him.

Unfortunately I don't always get it right. And as Cluny reminds me not even spell it right all the Time.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/25/16


Samuel, now you are comparing yourself to other Christians. You are holy but they are not. They have to do what you do or else they are going to hell. You do not have to do that.
You just answered very well on another blog, and here you change your colors. What's up with that?
---Luke on 3/25/16


Luke: "shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven"

Yes Luke, the beings in heaven are talking about YOU because you refuse to obey God's Law and you teach men so.

The only law we are not under is the Levitical law of sacrifices as they were a prophecy of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, and have been fulfilled. The Ten Commandment Law is the Law written on the heart in the New Covenant. Are you under the New Covenant?


---jerry6593 on 3/25/16


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Good points David.

Personally Luke I want to follow Jesus and not say well I can do this and still squeak in.

I want to stand up for my Lord and Savior and be counted as one who is willing to follow Jesus.

To be a soldier of the Cross.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/24/16


Jerry
Here's another perfect example of an illogical teaching in the church.
How many churches teach they are not under the Law, and yet teach we are subject to the Sabbath Law, or the Law of Tithing?

As Paul said, we are under the Law, the Law of Christ. Only these churches can not implement these teachings, because the Law of Christ involves obedience to God. To them the Law of Christ is optional, when the very word "Law", indicates it is not.

I guess it's okay in to steal, murder, and commit adultery, as long as you Tithe, or come to church on the day they find Holy.
---David on 3/24/16


jerry, you didn't give anything that we have not read already. We heard what Jesus said. We know who Jesus is. He live within us. Take another look at Matt. 5:19, at the end it says,
"shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven"
Did you hear that? "In the kingdom of Heaven. Unbelievers are not in the kingdom of heaven.
---Luke on 3/24/16


"why are there those on these blogs that still believe that the Law holds?"

Because some of us follow Jesus, who said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I just looked outside. heaven and earth are still here.



---jerry6593 on 3/24/16


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Samuelbb7. You are GUILTY of ALL the law (James 2:10).

How is being guilty of ALL the law different from your issue about "living in" sin?
What are you implying about "living in" sin? Is this "habitual" sin?

It seems you're saying most, if not all Christians, are living in (habitual) sin because of not keeping the Sabbath as described in OT.

And why are you charging Christians with sin (transgression of the law, 1John 3:4) when we're NOT even under the jurisdiction of the law (Rom 3:19, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18)?

God says who shall lay ANYTHING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?. Rom 8:33.
Why contradict God when He says we cannot be charged with sin?
---Haz27 on 3/24/16


True we are not under law. We aren't saved by the law. But the law still defines what are sins. Were not supposed to live in sin.

Unless you say that it is not a sin to lie?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/23/16


The Law is every much in effect today as in yesterday. It is condemning all those without Christ. All have broken the law against God. They are not under grace. The law convicts them of sin. They are under the law.
All believers in Christ are not under the law but under grace, Jesus has taken their sins to the cross.
---Luke on 3/23/16


/Ephesians 6:2...Romans 3:20-31...Explain these passages.\-Samuelbb7 on 3/21/16
Eph 6:2 is explained in 6:1.
The Decalogue does not say "obey your parents."
Paul gave instruction to obey the parents with a reminder that the ministration of sin and death written on tables of stones had a similar command and it was the first one with a promise.
Paul gave many instruction to the Ephesians.
Samuel, can you show me where Paul instructs the Ephesians about any of the other 9, especially the Sabbath?
Rom 3:20-31 speaks for itself, but I think you are stuck on v31.
The law is there to bring others to Christ. Since all have not yet come, The law still has its work, and then will be abolished, as it is written.
---micha9344 on 3/22/16


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Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,) Also Read Romans 3:20-31---Samuelbb7

The law is SPIRITUAL, Rom 7:14.
And note that God is our SPIRITUAL Father, and Jerusalem above is our SPIRITUAL mother (Gal 4:26).

Samuel, I see you're still pushing physical works of the law as meaning to establish the law. Am I correct in thinking that this is all part of the SDA doctrine on "imparted" righteousness?

No doubt you recall fellow SDA Francis who often posted on CN with his condemnations of any who do not keep the physical Sabbath.
---Haz27 on 3/22/16


Gal 3:21...29 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid:....
---micha9344 on 3/21/16

Nice micha9344. I'm tying this with...
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, write them in their hearts: I will be to them a God, they shall be to me a people:
Heb_10:16 This is the covenant...saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, in their minds will I write them,
Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 3/22/16


He did not stop killing Christians until the Lord Jesus Christ changed his life.---Luke on 3/21/16

Luke
Since you believe Paul sinned after he was born of God, how do you know he didn't continue to kill people?

Murder is a sin, and it's very hard for a serial killer to stop.
---David on 3/21/16


SAMUELbb7. Here's the commandments of Jesus.
1John 3:23
"And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another"
This is confirmed in John 3:16 and John 13:34.

Note also that our works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.

Also note that God's will is that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40.

SDA doctrine, however, mixes works of the law (so called "imparted" righteousness which all Adventists fail at), with grace, and this is unbelief as the law is NOT OF FAITH (Gal 3:12, Rom 11:6).
---Haz27 on 3/21/16


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Luke, Micha
I talk abut the discussion we are having. When it is those who oppose the word of GOD on the law that is what I talk about. When it is not I don't discuss it.

After you left school did you decide to forget how to read and write?

Yet you say leaving the law means you forget the law.

Paul opposes this which I have pointed out many times. But I just keep hearing I am wrong and I keep getting accused of saying the law saves.

Both of which are false accusation. So let us discuss what you are teaching and I am teaching.

Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,) Also Read Romans 3:20-31. Now instead of saying I am wrong. Explain these passages. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/21/16


/The law tells us what is a sin. That is it's job.\-Samuelbb7 on 3/21/16
Gal 3:21...29 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe...Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus...And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
-Its job is to bring one to Christ.
---micha9344 on 3/21/16


Samuel, you teach and advocate the law. Every answer you give is about the law. You preach more the law then most Pharisee. In Scripture they did quote a part of the law when they wanted to accuse Jesus. Oh, he is breaking the law.
Here you and David do the same thing. You quote the law to others, to try to find fault in them for not doing Saturday Sabbath. That is what all this is about. You guys try to put a smoke screen, but it really is about Saturday Sabbath. David even suggest he is without sin. A perfect person. No one is perfect, especially under the law. You feel you are a nice guy, stop the smoke screen. There is many topics to speak about outside the law.
---Luke on 3/21/16


David, I do not know where you got your information on Paul. People were not following him to learn, he was too busy murdering people.
---Luke on 3/21/16


Luke
I'm trying to understand your reasoning. You believe Paul was a teacher of the law, but he didn't teach anyone?

BTW, Saul was the killer, not Paul.
---David on 3/21/16


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Hey Luke. You didn't respond to my reply?

The law tells us what is a sin. That is it's job.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/21/16


David, I do not know where you got your information on Paul. People were not following him to learn, he was too busy murdering people. He might have been a Pharisee, and might have had a lot of knowledge concerning the law but his life was about how many Christians he could catch and murder.
He did not stop killing Christians until the Lord Jesus Christ changed his life.
---Luke on 3/21/16


Dear Luke

When and where have I judged you?

When and where have I stated the law saves?

I teach and advocate Grace. So you have made a false accusation. Why?

The law as James points out is like a mirror. It shows the dirt of sin. It does not clean or save.

Love
---Samuelbb7 on 3/17/16


Samuel, you must be full of hate since you judge others to your standards. Here is some more help for you,
"For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath, for where there is no law there is no transgression."
Did you read that? Did you not get it? Faith is made void. You are of the law, your faith is made void. And you do not even realize it.
---Luke on 3/17/16


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Agreed David.

There is no limit on grace. No number. But our actions show our hearts. When I sin I repent. I pray for grace and power to overcome. Each day I die to self so to live for Christ.

Doing right is my habit. That is the goal to be like Jesus.

We are to not settle for less.

Read Matthew 25
---Samuelbb7 on 3/16/16


Samuel
As you know, Paul was a teacher of the Law before he was saved. Some of the Jews who trusted him as their teacher, before he was saved, continued to follow him after he was saved.

To better understand Paul's epistles, we need to understand he was writing to both the Jewish believer, those born under the Law, and to the Gentile, those born without the Law.

Paul's conversion is a perfect example of God's wisdom. God knows, men are inclined to follow those they see as teacher. Paul was highly regarded, as a teacher of the Law, and like sheep, many followed him to Christ. Have you noticed in Acts, the Priests did not follow Christ, until after Paul's conversion?
---David on 3/16/16


Those who live in sin are full of hate not love.
---samue6667


Samuel. Did you really mean to post your id as 6667? :)

I find you answer ambiguous.
What is "live in" sin?

Is it 7 sins? Is it 7x70 sins? Have you committed 7x70 sins in your time as an SDA?

And no doubt the sin you speak of is transgression of the law (1John 3:4).
But Christians are NOT even under law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18) so why are you even judging Christians as sinners under the law?

BTW, Rom 8:33 says Who shall lay ANYTHING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect.

Why are you speaking of charging Christians with sin when God says that nothing can be charged against Christians?
---Haz27 on 3/16/16


Samuel, you say:
"Great points David.

Romans 3 points all that we are all sinners and it's the law that tells us."


You do admit you are a sinner. If you want to keep the Saturday Sabbath law, it does you no good since you break other laws. You just admitted you are a sinner. You break one you have broken them all, since you are under the law.
Believers in Christ are under Grace. Jesus took care of our sins at the cross, and sealed us forever. We no longer have a yoke around our necks.
---Luke on 3/16/16


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First we don't agree that the physical Sabbath should not be kept. In fact we believe Hebrews 4 shows it should be kept.

Now there is no minimum standard. When you accept Jesus you are saved. But those who choose to not follow Jesus and walk in love are not following GOD. Read 1 John again. Those who live in sin are full of hate not love.

We are to aim to be like Jesus.
---samue6667 on 3/15/16


Samuel. It's interesting that those always preaching that we must obey the commandments, FAIL to obey them themselves.

No doubt you see yourself as saved by grace, BUT, from what I see of SDA doctrine it implies that there is some minimum standard of obedience to the law that must be attained for one to be considered righteous with "imparted" righteousness. What is that minimum level of obedience in SDA doctrine?

As we both know, Jesus did not include physical Sabbath keeping in his 2 commands (1John 3:23).
As Christians are spiritual, it's clear that it's God's day of rest that we enter in to (Heb 4).
---Haz27 on 3/15/16


The proof that the we are to not break the commandments is shown in Romans 13 which points to love leads to obey. So what is the minimum standard of loving others. Should you love others and God just little. Or with our all.

Jesus does not talk much about the first four commandments except the Sabbath. Use a bible search engine on just the Gospels.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/15/16


Samuel. Rom 3:31 we differ. SDA think ESTABLISH (make stand) the law means we're required to obey it to some ambiguous minimum standard or else we're unrighteous.

My understanding is we establish the law in that we acknowledged the law is just, good and holy (Rom 7:12) and that we rightly deserved the law's death penalty. We then submitted to God's righteousness and sought His mercy.
God had made a way through Jesus (Rom 10:4). Our old physical man was crucified with Christ (Rom 6:6, Rom 8:10), thus establishing the law.
It's because we are in Christ (Col 3:3, Gal 2:20) that we're righteous.

BTW, note Rom 13 does NOT mention Sabbath.
Note likewise the command of Jesus does not mention Sabbath (John 13:34, 1John 3:23).
---Haz27 on 3/15/16


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Great points David.

Romans 3 points all that we are all sinners and it's the law that tells us.

The Jewish leaders tried to save themselves the law dosen't save. Jesus saves us by his Grace. Those saved in the Old Testament looked to salvation when the Messiah Jesus came.

To be under the law means to be living in sin. To use the law to define sin is what we are supposed to do. Romans 3:20 which you ignore along with Romans 3:31 which says the law is established as well as chapters 6, 13,.

True when we break one we are guilty of all James. But James teaches the law is still here.

So which is wrong scripture our your understanding. If you say my understanding is wrong the explain the above scripture.
agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/14/16


Romans 6 states that under law means living in sin.

Rom 6:1-7 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,... Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/14/16


What is wrong with works? It is part and parcel of cooperating with God.
---Monk_Brendan on 3/12/16

Monk Brendan
There's nothing wrong with works, but there are many who believe they are not part of their salvation, because of Pauls misunderstood teachings about the Law.

When Paul was teaching about "The Law", they refuse to accept The fact he was was referring to the old covenant law of Moses, not the new covenant law of Christ.

They accept only the parts of Pauls epistles which support their beliefs and reject those parts which show those beliefs to be false. Not to mention, these false beliefs cause them to reject all the other teachers in the bible, even the very Gospel of Jesus Christ.
---David on 3/13/16


the law cannot condemn us. If we are not living in sin--Samuelbb7

But what does God say?
Whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19.
Christians are NOT under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18.
Thus we see that Christians CANNOT be charged with sin/transgression of the law. Our righteousness is now by faith (Rom 4:5) and not by deeds of the law.
Who shall lay ANYTHING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?, Rom 8:33. 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1.

BTW, just ONE sin makes one guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.
Samuel, based on this fact SDA seem to allege that all Christians, including yourself, are condemned under the law that we are not even under the jurisdiction of.
---Haz27 on 3/12/16


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Monk_B. Our works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.
This is obeying God's will, John 6:40.

Re sheep v's goats (Matt 25) that speaks of preaching the gospel to the lost. And remember God's word is SPIRITUALLY discerned(1Cor 2:14).

Who are the SPIRITUALLY hungry the sheep fed (with the gospel)?
The lost who lack Jesus, our spiritual food/drink 1Cor 10:3,4.

Who are the SPIRITUALLY naked? The lost who lack the garment of salvation, robes of righteousness Isa 61:10, 2 Cor 5:3.

Who are SPIRITUAL strangers the sheep took in? The lost who are strangers from covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God, Eph 2:12,19.

How do we, the sheep,help the SPIRITUALLY needy? We preach the gospel
---Haz27 on 3/12/16


David said, "With that said, why do you believe Paul said righteousness comes through obedience in (Romans 6:16-18)? Isn't obedience defined as "Works", under what you believe?"

What is wrong with works? It is part and parcel of cooperating with God.

In the parable of the sheep and goats, the sheep were praised for obeying God, not for worshiping rightly.

1 Sam 15:22 Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. (KJV)

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/12/16


Monk Brendan
Why?
Because there are those of us that choose to use the entire Bible to learn the truth. We read the Bible with our eyes open, open so we can see those passages which may prove to us, what we believe may be false.

We do not run from them, but try to reconcile them, so that trough many witnesses, we can discover the Truth.

With that said, why do you believe Paul said righteousness comes through obedience in (Romans 6:16-18)? Isn't obedience defined as "Works", under what you believe?

How do you reconcile what Paul says there, with what you believe?
---David on 3/12/16


Because the law in Romans defines sin and is established by faith.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 6:1,2

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

By grace we don't live in sin. So the law cannot condemn us. If we are not living in sin.

Read the whole chapter.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/13/15


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In order to understand the scriptures you have to first be a son of God.

Deu 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

We are to love and treat God as OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, NOT as "MASTER". That is the ONLY way we can be a son of His (we are ADOPTED sons, Jesus was the only son that was BEGOTTEN of the Father).

We are BROTHERS of Jesus (because His Father is also OURS).

God sees humanity as consisting of only two kinds of people...sons of HIS and sons of man).
---faithforfaith on 10/13/15


To understand the scriptures we have to rightly divide the word of God.
Question: Is the Apostle Paul speaking of the Jewish civil laws, the Jewish ceremonial laws, the moral law of God, the law of sin and death, the law of works, or the law of faith?

It is reasonable to believe that we are not under the Jewish civil or ceremonial laws.
It is also reasonable to believe that we are under the moral law of God, that shall not kill, thou shall not commit adultery, etc.

So then what law is Paul referring to?
---trey on 10/3/15


This idea of salvation by law doesn't hold. The religious country had laws for rule under GOD. The main rule repeated over and over by Moses was:

Deuternomy 10:12
And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

When a person sinned. They through the Sanctuary could be redeemed and saved by the death and shedding of blood. They were saved by the blood. Which pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus.

No one is saved by the law and no one ever will be. Only one person has perfectly obeyed the law. Jesus. His death and the Grace shown to mankind saves us. Law defines sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/2/15


If by the law you mean the ten commandments, then I would like to point out the ten commandments points to sin...how would you know if you have sinned if these laws/the ten commandments were not given?
---dee6544 on 10/3/15


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I see people despise the law of GOD.

But the Prophets did not despise the law. Psalm 1 speaks of the wicked despise the law. Psalm 119 speaks of the law our guide.
Read Proverbs about the law.

Paul says the law is established Romans 3:31.

Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

It defines sin. Romans 3:20

Based on love. Romans 13.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/3/15


Instead of grace and peace, the keystone of Gods covenants with Israel was the law and wrath upon those who disobeyed.
We're not under any demands of a set of rules and regulations. That's the beauty of the Gospel of the Grace of God.
Mankind didn't always have this kind of freedom. For many years the Nation of Israel was under the Law, and the Law, was extremely severe. Picking up sticks on the Sabbath was a death penalty. No plea agreements.
---michael_e on 10/2/15


Many people desire to be famous and respected "prophets"/intellectual and spiritual hotshots (no genuine humility). God no longer uses prophets to speak to His people, He uses SONS (we are supposed to be ADOPTED "sons" of Abba FATHER, Romans 8:15 "the spirit of SONship").

The Jews were (at best) slaves and servants of "MASTER" God, but we are to be SONS of His,,,....and Jesus was the only son that was BEGOTTEN of the Father (we are BRETHREN/brothers of Jesus).

We are no longer under the law of sin and death like the Jews were.
---faithforfaith on 10/2/15


Hi, Monk (c: The Law can help to expose sin, in order to bring a person to Christ > Galatians 3:21-24.

Romans 7:7 > the Law helped Paul to see his sin.

"All Scripture" "is profitable" > 2 Timothy 3:16-17 > the Law is included in Scripture.

And we see how Paul has used the Law to help people see our need for Jesus and grace > for one example, Galatians 4:21-27 < Paul uses the authority of the Law to help us.

So, we need to understand how the Law holds and how it does not, I consider (c:

Grace, I consider is God's redeeming action creating excellence. His grace acting in us is almighty, guaranteed to succeed > 1 John 4:17-18.
---Bill on 10/1/15


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I have found the opposite to be true. Once a person learns and absorbs the truth of grace, that they do not have to "perform" for Gods love, they are so grateful to the Lord for giving us such wonderful freedom that they begin living even more "godly" lives.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/30/15

Amen Mark!!! When God reveals to one of his children that they are saved by His grace, by His goodness, by His finished work upon the cross they are much more willing to live for Christ not for what they will receive or for fear of what they will lose if they don't, but they live for Christ out of gratitude and love.
---trey on 10/1/15


COMPARATIVELY, the way the ancient Jews acknowledged and honored (worshipped) the creator and the way we are supposed to acknowledge and honor the creator today,....

the Jews were, IN EFFECT...

PAGANS.

I know that sounds heretical, but we really don't have a spiritual connection/heritage to them (we may have a PHYSICAL/earthly heritage as ancestors that also know of their God, but no SPIRITUAL connection).

They only knew and worshipped JEHOVAH/Creator, WE have "Son and the divine Spirit.

Yet, many people want to be JEWS.
---faithforfaith on 9/30/15


---micha9344 on 9/30/15
I agree with you that is why I said my first statement.
/God has made you holy - sinless before you sin. Which is grace./ The verses you quoted.
The Bible and God holds us in tension we have full liberty to do whatever we want but we are also bound 'slave' to God, 2Tim Ch. 2. Read any of Paul's letters they take a similar form. The first part is all about grace, the second is all about obedience and how to remain holy.
---Scott1 on 9/30/15


"Either slave to obedience to the Law given by God or a slave to sin and death."-Scott1 on 9/30/15
This is a false statement.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
-It is quite clear obedience to the law is only self-righteousness.
-It is our faith in Christ.
I am His slave, not the law's.
---micha9344 on 9/30/15


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Scott 1 said, "This verse is not describing sin itself but the power and punishment for sin. In the OT if you sinned you had to clean yourself, it was an action (sin) then reaction (sacrifice) mentality."

First of all, sin is not only an action. Jesus said, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matt 5:28

When I was in grade school, the nuns taught that sin begins in the heart. It is something I have always remembered.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 9/30/15


If Romans 6:14 says "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace," why are there those on these blogs that still believe that the Law holds?
---Monk_Brendan on 9/29/15

The shortest answer is fear. Fear that people will go on sinning and sinning if we lived according to grace.

I have found the opposite to be true. Once a person learns and absorbs the truth of grace, that they do not have to "perform" for Gods love, they are so grateful to the Lord for giving us such wonderful freedom that they begin living even more "godly" lives.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/30/15


This verse is not describing sin itself but the power and punishment for sin. In the OT if you sinned you had to clean yourself, it was an action (sin) then reaction (sacrifice) mentality. Jesus has flipped the sequence. In Romans theology, God has made you holy - sinless before you sin. Which is grace. However, the Law is good and keeps me from sinning. For we as humans are still a slave to something. Either slave to obedience to the Law given by God or a slave to sin and death. Romans 6:15-20.
---Scott1 on 9/30/15


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