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Was The Church Corrupted 325

If the original "Christian" Church was corrupted by 325 a.d. then how did a few men learn the truth and start teaching it in the 16th century? Where did they find the "real" texts that told the truth?

Note: They only had the OT in Greek, and the NT in Greek or Latin

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 10/11/15
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I'm still waiting for either John to tell me which Eastern Orthodox doctrine developed over time.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/31/15


Cluny states, "john, all you do is rehash what you've read that agrees with what you want to think."


Wow, I certainly didn't know I have control over the minds of rc, EO, and non-religious Historians and scholars to make them say what I want them to say.

Sir, Read the information is available to you and anyone

May Yahweh guide you to himself today,

John
---john9346 on 10/30/15


Brendan states, "But the Teaching of the Catholic Church follows what Jesus taught the 12 Apostles."

1. Jesus never taught to pray and worship his mother and saints.

2. Jesus never taught to eats his litteral physical body and blood (cannibalism).

3. Jesus never taught salvation was found in the RC or EO church (sola ekklesia), but himself see jn 14:6.

4. Jesus never taught a man (the pope) is infallible.

5. Jesus never taught purgatory, indulgences, and the Treasury of Merit.
---john on 10/30/15


john, all you do is rehash what you've read that agrees with what you want to think.

\\All RC and EO dogmas developed over time every last one of them.
\\

Please name ONE Eastern Orthodox doctrine that developed over time.

Bet you can't.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/29/15


StrongAxe said, "Besides, the Roman Catholic church does actually have a documented history of ganster-like behavior... Can you cite any evidence of Leon having a similar history?"

No, but I don't know anything about Leon save for what he has stated on these blogs. There are no books entitled "2000 Years with Leon." As far as I know, Leon is a teenager who won't or can't work. That's it.

I do agree that the behavior of the RC Church has been egregious in the past, and I will admit that crimes are happening and/or being covered up. But the Teaching of the Catholic Church follows what Jesus taught the 12 Apostles.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/29/15




Brendan,

With all do respect to you sir, you are only rehashing what has been told to you by Vatican I of 1870.


As I said to Cluny, protestants and rc historians stand against you both.

Also, even non-religious Historian substantiate as well these facts.

All RC and EO dogmas developed over time every last one of them.

May Yahweh guide you,

John
---john9346 on 10/29/15


Brendan,

With all do respect to you sir, you are only rehashing what has been told to you by Vatican I of 1870.


As I said to Cluny, protestants and rc historians stand against you both.

Also, even non-religious Historian substantiate as well these facts.

All RC and EO dogmas developed over time every last one of them.

I recommend the books I have previously cited to you both.
---john9346 on 10/29/15


Brendan said, "As far as I am concerned, while certain priests and popes may have been corrupt at times in the past,"

* Pope Honorius reigned from 625 to 638 A.D. He was condemned as a heretic by the Sixth Ecumenical Council (680-681). He was also condemned as a heretic by Pope Leo II, as well as by every other pope until the eleventh century.

* Pope Leo V only reigned for one month (July 903). Cardinal Christopher put Leo in prison and became Pope. Then Christopher was put in prison by Cardinal Sergius. Sergius killed Leo and Christopher while they were in prison. He also killed every cardinal who had opposed him.
---john9346 on 10/29/15


If, as people here contend, the church was corrupt, and the Bible was corrupt because of its Catholic origin, ...
---Monk_Brendan on 10/23/15

You have false logic going on.
Scripture is Israel's heritage, origin and intent. Catholics didn't create a sentence of GOD's.
The "ekklesia" is Israel. It is not a building or a man made greek, or roman/latin false doctrine house.

The gates of "hades" or "grave shall not prevail against the "ekklesia" of Israel.
As noted in: Eze_37
Eze_37:11 he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: ...
. Eze 37:22 ...they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
---Trav on 10/28/15


John said, I challenge you to show that popes didn't use the Donation of Constantine to elevate papal infallibility and primacy??"

Papal infallibility was only defined during Vatican I, and was defined more clearly in Vatican II, in the whole of Christianity, it has only been used three times.

It means that, by the protection of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is protected from teaching error when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church.

Complain to God about it

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/28/15




Cluny,

1. Yes, I have heard of book, but have not read it.

2. The RC Historian Johann Joseph Ignaz von Dllinger, agrees with Salmon's Work.

see, The Pope and the Council by Johann Joseph Ignaz von Dllinger

3. Again, not sure what you keep trying to prove since I have shown you that both dogmas concerning the pope developed over time no matter which one you raise.

4. Please read the books recommended to you my friend to clear up misunderstanding.ou have will
---john9346 on 10/28/15


I looked up Salmon. Seems he also wrote a book called "Non-Miraculous Christianity." While this made my red warning light flash on (sort of like "neat garbage"), I could not find what the book was about.

Have you heard of it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/15


johnnumbers, do you know how Catholics understand and teach Papal Infallibility (as opposed to Papal primacy)? Papal infallibility has limits. Do you know what they are?

Maybe we're not understanding each other here.

BTW, Salmon was a priest of the (Anglican) Church of Ireland.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/15


Well Cluny,

Both RC and Protestant historians are in agreement and stand against you my friend.

Perhaps, you could read the book to gain more understanding.

Also, the work by Thomas Aquinas "Against the Errors of the Greeks." AD 1264.

All sources factually and evidentially establishes papal infallibility and primacy were taught and practice for thousands of years and what ever means to support was used.

All long before Vatican I in 1870.

What happen in 1870 just gave the name like calling a fruit an apple another orange.
---john9346 on 10/27/15


john9346, you are interpreting the quote you gave according to your own bias.

To clarify your quote, "In these are to be found precedents...", what qre the antecedents of "these"?

BTW, temporal sovereignty over churches is NOT the same thing as papal infallibility. Can you prove they are?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/15


Cluny said, "Since the DofC was known to be a forgery in the Middle Ages, and Papal Infallibility did not become an issue until the 19th century, the burden is on YOU to show it was used to back up papal INFALLIBILITY before then."

Actually when you dispute facts with your opinion the burden is really on you to disprove the facts.

"In these are to be found precedents for all manner of instances of the exercise of sovereign dominion by the pope over other Churches. You must take notice of this, that it was by furnishing precedents that these letters helped the growth of papal power."

George Salmon, Historian The Infallibility of the Church (London: John Murray, 1914), pp. 449, 451, 453).
---john9346 on 10/26/15


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Brendan said, "No, sir! You brought up cults, not me."

Here is what you said, "But according to modern Protestants and other cults the RCC and Orthodox had made the Bible unreliable by their additions/subtractions."




Brendan said, "As far as I am concerned, while certain priests and popes may have been corrupt at times in the past, I have to stand with the simple words of Christ, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

My friend, you don't have to Jesus said, "
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Jn 14:6
---john9346 on 10/26/15


Brendan said, "No, sir! You brought up cults, not me."

Here is what you said, "But according to modern Protestants and other cults the RCC and Orthodox had made the Bible unreliable by their additions/subtractions."
---john on 10/26/15


\\You do not seem to understand that both dogmas were used by popes to elavate themselves through out the development of Belief.

I challenge you to show that popes didn't use the Donation of Constantine to elevate papal infallibility and primacy??\\

Since the DofC was known to be a forgery in the Middle Ages, and Papal Infallibility did not become an issue until the 19th century, the burden is on YOU to show it was used to back up papal INFALLIBILITY before then.

And the "development of belief" is a particularly Roman Catholic idea.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/15


Cluny said, "
And you think this is the same thing as Papal Infallibility, john?"

"I thought you had two different issues confused, and you have confirmed my suspicions."

No, I think perhaps it is you my friend.

You do not seem to understand that both dogmas were used by popes to elavate themselves through out the development of Belief.

I challenge you to show that popes didn't use the Donation of Constantine to elevate papal infallibility and primacy??
---john on 10/26/15


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\\And when did I ever say that papal infallibility and papal Primacy is the same thing??\\

You didn't say so in so many words, but when I asked you to give proof that papal infallibility was believed before the 19th century, you quoted the forged Donation of Constantine, which mentions papal PRIMACY, but not infallibility.

This sounds like you had the two issues confused.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/15


John said, "Sir, I was responding to a question you raised to me further down when you included cults. You said cults always say the church was corrupted in AD 325."

No, sir! You brought up cults, not me. And there are various cults that say that the Church was corrupted in all sorts of different dates, from the day after the 1st Christian Pentecost up to and including Pope Francis.

As far as I am concerned, while certain priests and popes may have been corrupt at times in the past, I have to stand with the simple words of Christ, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/26/15


Cluny said, "john, if you understood church history as much as you think you do, you would know that papal infallibility is NOT the same thing as papal primacy."

And when did I ever say that papal infallibility and papal Primacy is the same thing??
---john9346 on 10/26/15


\\You said cults always say the church was corrupted in AD 325.
\\

Oneness Pentecostals and J[f]Ws say that. I've seen it in their literature.

Would you call them cults?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/15


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Brendan,

Sir, I was responding to a question you raised to me further down when you included cults. You said cults always say the church was corrupted in AD 325.
---john9346 on 10/25/15


john, if you understood church history as much as you think you do, you would know that papal infallibility is NOT the same thing as papal primacy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/15


John said, "A lot of people who claim the church was corrupted in AD 325 really have know knowledge of church history especially cults.

everyone brings up Nicea, but when asked what happen they cant tell a single thing ...

... cults do not understand church history, they only use it to convert the "Unlearned."


I do understand Church history. And I know what happened at the Council in 325 a.d. The council was wrestling with several issues, chief of which was Arianism. (You can look it up.) They also wrote several laws about particular groups of people, and they issued a Synodal Letter to the various sees to explain what they did and why they did it.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/25/15


Responding to Brendan,

A lot of people who claim the church was corrupted in AD 325 really have know knowledge of church history especially cults.

everyone brings up Nicea, but when asked what happen they cant tell a single thing that happen at Nicea.

The coruption of the RC was a gradual process not a 1 time occurrence.

Brendan, cults do not understand church history, they only use it to convert the "Unlearned."
---john9346 on 10/25/15


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\\Cluny states, "The Donation of Constantine, proven to be an 8-9th century forgery, says nothing about papal infallibility."

"the pope, as successor of St. Peter, has the primacy over the four Patriarchs of Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and Jerusalem, also over all the bishops in the world."

The Donation of Constantine\\

And you think this is the same thing as Papal Infallibility, john?

I thought you had two different issues confused, and you have confirmed my suspicions.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/15


Brendan said, "
If, as people here contend, the church was corrupt, and the Bible was corrupt because of its Catholic origin, then where were the pure texts that Luther read from to get this inspiration?"

Remember, the rcc didn't, "Give the world the bible."

didn't define Scripture until 1546 by then Luther knew the truth.

Cluny states, "The Donation of Constantine, proven to be an 8-9th century forgery, says nothing about papal infallibility."

"the pope, as successor of St. Peter, has the primacy over the four Patriarchs of Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and Jerusalem, also over all the bishops in the world."

The Donation of Constantine
---john9346 on 10/25/15


Trey said, "It is true that the church at Rome was corrupted early on, but Christ had previously stated:
Mt 16:18 ... (KJV)"


If the Church was corrupt then there must have been times when the gates of hell did prevail against it. (Ooops, that would make Jesus a liar!) For instance, Pope Alexander VI had never heard of Martin Luther, and Luther was still a young man when Alexander died.

If, as people here contend, the church was corrupt, and the Bible was corrupt because of its Catholic origin, then where were the pure texts that Luther read from to get this inspiration?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/23/15


John said, " Brendan, it is not a matter of contherability, but that of idolatry."

Excuse me, John, but I have never heard that word--contherability--can you please give me a definition?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/23/15


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Nicole_Lacey,

Do you believe that Christ was referring to building your house on Peter or on Christ in the following verse?

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
---trey on 10/23/15


The Donation of Constantine, proven to be an 8-9th century forgery, says nothing about papal infallibility.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/23/15


Cluny states, "Are you sure that you and your historians are not confusing papal INFALLIBILITY with papal PRIMACY?"

Both papal infallibility and suppremacy has been practice and taught long before 1870 not 1871 my friend.

Examples, leo I, Damasus, and the Donation of Constantine.



I want to remind you of the following statement:


" Those who do not have good arguments or verses for their views. Often resort to juvenile remarks, snide comments and personal attacks."

Samuel 7
---john9346 on 10/23/15


-He spoke this not of Peter -"Petras" (pebble) but of himself "The Rock".---trey on 10/23/15

NO, NO, NO!

Give one verse in the Gospel when or where JESUS CALLED HIMSELF THE ROCK?

JUST ONE

Because I can you give several verses where JESUS called HIMSELF the CORNERSTONE.

Even PAUL and PETER called Jesus the cornerstone in the NT.
Matthew 21:42,
Eph 2:20-22 and 1 Peter 2:4-8 just a few.

BTW Jesus only spoke in His Body in the NT, not OT.
Give chapter and verse in the NT not the OT please.

Nice try, some on CN have read the Bible before.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15


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It is true that the church at Rome was corrupted early on, but Christ had previously stated:
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (KJV)

-He spoke this not of Peter -"Petras" (pebble) but of himself "The Rock".
So, the true church was still in existence under other names such as the Montanists, Tertullianists, Novatians, Donatists, Panlicians, Petrobrusians, Henricians, Arnolists, Waldenses, Albigenses, and Lollards. Later they were known as Anabaptist.
---trey on 10/23/15


\\Cluny states "Not a Latin doctrine until the 19th century."

actually historian place beginning about fourth-fifth century.\\

Papal infallibility was never a Latin doctrine until the council of Vatican 1 under Pope Pius IX, which met in 1871 or thereabouts.

Are you sure that you and your historians are not confusing papal INFALLIBILITY with papal PRIMACY?

These are not the same at all, but I don't expect you to understand the difference.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/15


\\Cluny, please show from Scripture how these prayers are not Latria since they attribute "The Divine."
---john9346 on 10/22/15
\\

Why am I being asked to comment on a non-Orthodox prayer?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/15


Brendan said, "John, this is the ministry of intercession that God has given to Mary, that she plead with Jesus to save us."

Sir, Holy Scripture does not teach attributing God Qualities to mary and saints asking them to pray for us.

See, Rom 10:13, Jer 17:14, Jn 14:13-14, 16:23, Heb 4:16, and 1 Tim 2:5, and Isa 43:10-11.
---john on 10/22/15


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I said, "John, this is the ministry of intercession that God has given to Mary, that she plead with Jesus to save us."

Let's try this, John. Mary is a typical Jewish mother. Have you ever known ANY Jewish mother that did not try to put her two cents worth in about her son's business?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/22/15


Brendan, it is not a matter of contherability, but that of idolatry.

This is what Yahweh (The Lord) forbids my friend, this is latria.

Only God can do these things and the qualities attributed in these prayers are that only God can do.


Cluny, please show from Scripture how these prayers are not Latria since they attribute "The Divine."
---john9346 on 10/22/15


\\Receive me, good St. Anne, into the number of your true clients, for so I profess myself and wish to remain throughout my entire life.
\\

This is not LATREIA, john, and calling it that will not make it so.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/20/15


Yes, john, truly very beautiful prayer to Mary.
---santimoy.kumar on 10/20/15


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John said, "Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope!...Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary."

John, this is the ministry of intercession that God has given to Mary, that she plead with Jesus to save us.

If you don't feel comfortable praying the Memorare, then don't use it. We ask the Theotokos to intercede with us every day. "Most Holy Theotokos, save us." and "Our Lady of Walsingham, Pray for us."

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/20/15


Cluny states, "As as has been repeatedly said, Mary, Saints, Icons, and relics were NEVER worshipped with LATREIA that belongs to God alone."


Correction,


Receive me, good St. Anne, into the number of your true clients, for so I profess myself and wish to remain throughout my entire life.
Obtain for me, from God, the power to imitate those virtues with which you are so plentifully endowed. Help me to know and regret my sins bitterly. Obtain for me the grace of active love for Jesus and Mary, and resolution to fulfill the duties of my state of life with faithfulness.
Save me from every danger that confronts me in life, and help me at the hour of my death.
Amen.
---john on 10/20/15


Cluny asked, "Which historians? Name one."

Henry Bettenson, Earle Cairns,

- Richard McBrien, Lives of the Popes: The Pontiffs from St. Peter to John Paul II
- P. G. Maxwell-Stuart, Chronicle of the Popes: The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Papacy over 2000 Years

- Geoffrey Barraclough, The Medieval Papacy (Library of World Civilization)
---john9346 on 10/20/15


Cluny states, "As as has been repeatedly said, Mary, Saints, Icons, and relics were NEVER worshipped with LATREIA that belongs to God alone."


Correction,




Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
---john on 10/20/15


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\\actually historian place beginning about fourth-fifth century.
\\

Which historians? Name one.

As as has been repeatedly said, Mary, Saints, Icons, and relics were NEVER worshipped with LATREIA that belongs to God alone.

Why has that not sunk into you yet?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/20/15


Cluny states "Not a Latin doctrine until the 19th century."

actually historian place beginning about fourth-fifth century.

Cluny states "Never taught or received by Orthodox Churches."

icons actually between fifth-eight century as well as mary and saint worship.

vital to note, all these beliefs developed over time, not always held and taught as dogma for salvation both EO and RC.
---john9346 on 10/19/15


Cluny said, "Actually, it was LUTHER who corrupted the text of Romans by inserting the word "alone" to make a verse read, "Man is justified by faith ALONE."

Well have you read 5:1 of Romans??

Brendan asked, "where did Martin Luther read an historically accurate and spiritually inspired text."


In his own testimony "The Scriptures."

You see, he viewed the church fathers through Scripture not the other way around.


Jerome wouldn't agree with EO and rc today

Jerome added the apocrypha to be read as fiction not what trent did by making it Scripture (73 books)
---john9346 on 10/18/15


Cluny:

Oops, sorry. I thought this was a response in a different thread (Perceived Wrongs of Catholic), so my reply was to that issue, and not this one.
---StrongAxe on 10/18/15


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StrongAxe, NO church or religion (with the possible exception of Judaism) comes into a discussion of slavery and its practice with clean hands.

And even the Torah has rules concerning the treatment of slaves.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/17/15


Cluny:

You said: Protestants also supported slavery (this resulted in the founding of the Methodist Episcopal Church, South and Southern Baptist Convention) and killing Roman Catholics when they got the chance, too.

This is a tu quoque argument. This blog is about why people hate the Catholic church. If a child is abused by a priest of one church, it would not comfort him in the least to know that ministers of other churches may be doing the same (or worse) too.

How did the Roman Catholic Church indulge in robbery?

The Spanish conquistadores enslaved local populations and worked them to death in the gold mines to enrich themselves, in the name of Spain, and of the Church, which approved.
---StrongAxe on 10/17/15


\\(e.g. executing its opponents in the Inquisition, supporting enslavement, robbery, and genocide against natives of the Americas) that was "sanctimonious", \\

Protestants also supported slavery (this resulted in the founding of the Methodist Episcopal Church, South and Southern Baptist Convention) and killing Roman Catholics when they got the chance, too.

Most of the people who headed to the West of the United States were Protestants doing so in the name of Manifest Destiny (cf. "lebensraum").

How did the Roman Catholic Church indulge in robbery?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/15


Cluny:

Leon said: Is it a bunch of sanctimonious religious gangsters

You said: Like you, Leon?

"I am, but so are you" (i.e. tu quoque) is not a valid argument.
"I'm not, but you are" (i.e. "neener neener") is not a valid argument either.

Besides, the Roman Catholic church does actually have a documented history of ganster-like behavior (e.g. executing its opponents in the Inquisition, supporting enslavement, robbery, and genocide against natives of the Americas) that was "sanctimonious", as it was done in the name of the God and Church, regardless of whether such actions are currently supported. Can you cite any evidence of Leon having a similar history?
---StrongAxe on 10/16/15


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\\ Is it a bunch of sanctimonious religious gangsters \\

Like you, Leon?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/15


Leon said, " Jesus said He'd build "His church" & the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against it. So then, the more logical question should be what really is the church? Is it a bunch of sanctimonious religious gangsters or is it a world-wide community of truly born again, Holy Spirit led, believers in Jesus Christ?"

Aren't you going out of your way to be nasty?

However, the "sanctimonious religious gangsters" have come and gone, and the Church (for all her flaws) is still standing, and she is willing that all people come to her for the healing that only the Body of Christ can give.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/16/15


Jesus said He'd build "His church" & the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against it. So then, the more logical question should be what really is the church? Is it a bunch of sanctimonious religious gangsters or is it a world-wide community of truly born again, Holy Spirit led, believers in Jesus Christ?

"To be or not to be, that is the question!"
---Leon on 10/16/15


First establish the name of the original church. Then state who these "few men" were and what they taught (and what discoveries of falsities they revealed).

This is not a VALID way of discussing/discovering what the truth might be (because there are no definitive and complete statements).

Instead of a blank statement that ASSUMES,
What was discovered?.
---faithforfaith on 10/15/15


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Actually, it was LUTHER who corrupted the text of Romans by inserting the word "alone" to make a verse read, "Man is justified by faith ALONE."

He also said, "If you papist friend objects, simply say that Dr. Luther will have it so." In other words, the Pope is not infallible, but Luther is.

He also considered James "the epistle of straw" and uncanonical as it says IN SO MANY WORDS we are justified by works and NOT by faith alone.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/15/15


John said, From reading the Scriptures if you remember when Luther read the book of Romans it open his eyes to hidden truths that had been otherwise dismissed by the rc."

But according to modern Protestants and other cults the RCC and Orthodox had made the Bible unreliable by their additions/subtractions. If so, where did Martin Luther read an historically accurate and spiritually inspired text. Remember, the NT was originally written in Koine Greek. Jerome translated that text to the Latin Vulgate, and Martin Luther translated that into German. Can you see where the errors might have crept in?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/15/15


\\Well, 476 commenced the Medieval Period where coruption really became doctrine, papal infallibility\\

Not a Latin doctrine until the 19th century.

\\ righteousness, penance and indulgences, the treasury of Merit, purgatory,\\

Never taught or received by Orthodox Churches.

\\ and worship of Mary and saints and icons.\\

These were never worshipped with the LATREIA that belongs to God alone in either east or west.

If they happened, it's DESPITE the teaching of the Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/14/15


faithforfaith, I'm still waiting for you to tell me just WHAT these corrupt dogmas were in the 13-14th centuries, and who came up with them.

Someone once said that the average person actually knows little about the past, but has definite ideas about it.

If you don't believe that, read these blogs.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/14/15


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Brendan and Cluny,


Well, 476 commenced the Medieval Period where coruption really became doctrine, papal infallibility, works righteousness, penance and indulgences, the treasury of Merit, purgatory, and worship of Mary and saints and icons.

Brendan said, "But you are not answering the question. If the whole of the Orthodox Catholic Church had been corrupted, where did Martin Luther and John Calvin find the true scripts?"

From reading the Scriptures if you remember when Luther read the book of Romans it open his eyes to hidden truths that had been otherwise dismissed by the rc.

Calvin and Luther believed the church fathers taught truth which they always had been taught prior to be rc.
---john9346 on 10/14/15


faithforfaith:

You said: Why do you assume that anyone did find the real truth in the past???.

Perhaps because Jesus himself said "I came to bear witness to the truth".

The real truth about the creator is (MY God, many choose power, greed, etc. to be the "god" in their lives) is just now becoming known (by how many....FEW).

Oh really? And just who IS this God of yours that has never been known until now?

The "strong delusion" has always been present, but now The Lord will teach the sincere people.

Only now? Why now all of a sudden? What makes this time different from all others? And what will he teach that has never been taught before?
---StrongAxe on 10/14/15


faithforfaith, where did you get the idea that your god was the real one?

Sincerity will avail you naught. You can sincerely believe a lie and still be damned, according to St. Paul.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/13/15


John said, "...Coruption was a slow establishment that really didn't start until about 476 by the 13t/14th century the coruption was pretty much dogmas attached to Christianity.

There had to be a reformation my friend really and trufully... ..."


Okay, John, you are just pushing the date back 151 years. While this was the year that the Western part of the Roman Empire fell, this was not the beginning of corruption in the Church. The Eastern empire continued until 1453. But you are not answering the question. If the whole of the Orthodox Catholic Church had been corrupted, where did Martin Luther and John Calvin find the true scripts?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/13/15


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Satan has infiltrated and divided the church since the beginning. The division of christiandom has exploded to what it is today having over sixty thousand different denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of livng and interpretations of the bible.

The true church of God ARE the christians not a denomination or a building. Denominational christians, the counterfeit christians, have the knowledge of God, but deny his power. They are adamant about what denomination they belong: some say they are of Lutheran, some say they are of Orthosox, some say they are of Catholic, some say they are of Baptist. Is Christ divided?
---Steveng on 10/13/15


Why do you assume that anyone did find the real truth in the past???.

The real truth about the creator is (MY God, many choose power, greed, etc. to be the "god" in their lives) is just now becoming known (by how many....FEW).

The "strong delusion" has always been present, but now The Lord will teach the sincere people.
---faithforfaith on 10/13/15


\\Coruption was a slow establishment that really didn't start until about 476 by the 13t/14th century the coruption was pretty much dogmas attached to Christianity.\\

Why 476? What's the significance of that date?

And what were the corrupt dogmas? That Jesus Christ is truly God Incarnate?

That He has a full human nature and full divine nature?

That His full human nature includes a human will and energy?

Be specific, please.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/13/15


Hi Brendan,

I really do not follow your question.

The coruption of the church didn't occur at Nicea in 325 AD.

Coruption was a slow establishment that really didn't start until about 476 by the 13t/14th century the coruption was pretty much dogmas attached to Christianity.

There had to be a reformation my friend really and trufully... ...
---john9346 on 10/13/15


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\\Also, the counterfeits have gained political power so they could keep the real Christians from being recognized in history books and religious record.\\

Name one of these counterfeits and when he/she functioned, please, Bill.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/12/15


It is true that tnere is corruption everywhere and always in this world.
---santimoy.kumar on 10/12/15


The Bible gives us the history of the early Christian church. And Jesus has never failed to have His obedient sheep.

But counterfeiters have gotten started, even before Jesus was on this earth, and there have been groups who have divided from the counterfeits and they have counterfeited the counterfeits. But the real Jesus has real sheep who know Him and obey His voice.

Also, the counterfeits have gained political power so they could keep the real Christians from being recognized in history books and religious records. But God knows who are His.

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)
---Bill on 10/12/15


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