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Explain 1 John 3:9

We all believe Jesus Christ was born of God, but which translation of (1 John 3:9) best describes him, for you?
The one which says those born of God do not sin (KJV), or the one which says those born of God, sin, only they do not habitually (AMP)?

Moderator - Jesus Christ is part of the Trinity and was NEVER born or created.

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 ---David on 10/16/15
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"Matt 24 salvation is received through endurance."

What you said is not true. That is not what the passage is teaching. It is teaching that those who endure to the end are those who are saved by Grace through faith. Salvation is not by our works. It is an act of God towards the sinner.
---Luke on 11/23/15


//The topic I was on was those who endure to the end will be saved.//
Those who endure to the end of the tribulation will be saved.
Matt 24 salvation is received through endurance. (Matt 24:13).
Salvation today in the dispensation of Gods grace does not depend on our endurance through tribulation. It rests only on the finished work of Christ and provides salvation now.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
---michael_e on 11/20/15


"But it is not the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel. Nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham: but, In Isaac your seed shall be called. That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of promise are counted as the seed."

Trav, not everyone from Israel will be saved. Only those saved by grace through faith. They are the Spiritual Israel, the seed of promise.
" But Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were by the works of the law." Rom. 9:31,32.
---Luke on 11/20/15


"Luke, Matt 24:15 is prophesied events about the Jewish temple and their holy place There is no holy place, temple, or chosen nation in this dispensation. There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ (Col 3:11 1 Cor 3:16)"

michale e, you are not understanding the passages. In (v.3) the disciples asked Jesus two questions. When was He was going to come again and what will be the sign. Jesus then begin to explain what was going to happen in the last days. (V13) is about those who endure to the end. Those that do will be saved.
Then He speaks about the "Abomination of desolation. Still talking about the last days. The topic I was on was those who endure to the end will be saved.
---Luke on 11/19/15


...Rom. 11:7."
Only One Church, the "called out" ones by God. Jesus is the Head of that body, there is no two bodies.
---Luke on 11/17/15

Indeed, it is the prophets prophecy. To the "ethnos"/"nations" of Israel.
Isa_45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, ...

Eze_37:22 I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, ...
Heb 8:8...I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel "AND" with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 11/18/15




Luke, Matt 24:15 is prophesied events about the Jewish temple and their holy place There is no holy place, temple, or chosen nation in this dispensation. There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ (Col 3:11 1 Cor 3:16)
Jesus tells those in Judaea to flee to the mountains because of tribulation (Matt 24:16).
Most of the church today does not live in Judaea. We wouldn't fit in this context.
What would they flee from? The context talks about trouble and wrath coming to that place (Mat 24:21).
Matthew 24 is fulfilling his prophecy purpose on earth. When he returns (Matt 24:30) it will be in judgment to establish his earthly kingdom in Judea (Rev 19:11). These things can't happen while God is offering free salvation to the world.
---michael_e on 11/16/15


Micha
"The dead in Christ shall shall rise first"
Who are these dead?

They obviously did not live until the end, and yet they are being saved.
---David on 11/16/15


Again, knowing that "enduring unto the end" was referencing the end of days and not the end of one's life, how does that apply to those that haven't seen the end?--micha9344

Micha
Good question.

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
---David on 11/15/15


Michael e, Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved"
only means that the ones who persevere are the same ones who are saved. Not the ones whose love grows cold (v.12). This does not suggest that our perseverance secures our salvation, Scripture everywhere teaches precisely the opposite. God, as part of His works secures our perseverance.
Later in history 2 Tim. 2:11-13, 2 Thess. 1:4, Eph. 1:13-14, speaks of how we endure and we endure by the power of God.
---Luke on 11/15/15


"It is important to note that salvation is of the Lord. It is not a human work. Human beings cannot save themselves. Salvation is a divine work, accomplished and applied by God.
---Luke on 11/14/15"
Amen, worth repeating.
---joseph on 11/15/15




Everything Christ needed to do to be our replacement for the punishment of our sins was finished at the cross.
You can read about it in the God-inspired Gospels.
Again, knowing that "enduring unto the end" was referencing the end of days and not the end of one's life, how does that apply to those that haven't seen the end?
Are you trying to redirect the question?
---micha9344 on 11/14/15


What is your reasoning for applying this verse to our Savior's work before we were even born?--micha9344 on 11/13/15

Micha
Weren't the Lords Gospels part of his work?
---David on 11/14/15


Mark E, very good points you gave. Salvation is mentioned not only in many senses but in many tenses. The verb to save appears in virtually every possible tense of the Greek language. For there is a sense in which we were saved from the foundation of the world, and a sense we were being saved by the work of God in history, and a sense we are saved by being in a justified state, and a sense we will be saved by experiencing the consummation of our redemption in heaven. So the Bible really speaks of salvation in terms of the past, present and future.
It is important to note that salvation is of the Lord. It is not a human work. Human beings cannot save themselves. Salvation is a divine work, accomplished and applied by God.
---Luke on 11/14/15


David, when Christ speaks of enduring until the end he is speaking of enduring until the end of the Law Age. By the way, we are no longer living in the Law Age.

Every time the word save, or saved is mentioned in scriptures it means to be delivered. Sometimes it is speaking of eternal deliverance from this world to heaven but sometimes it means a timely deliverance.

Timely Salvation:
Matthew 10:22
Exodus 14:30
Acts 2:40

Eternal Salvation:
Romans 11:26
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,

Note: Time Salvation is up to the believer but Eternal Salvation is the work of God.
---trey on 11/14/15


Jesus ministry in Matthew-John was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Mat 15:24). His ministry to the circumcision confirmed the covenant promises to the nation Israel (Rom 15:8).
Nowhere in Mt-Jn do we find the mystery information revealed by the Lord to Paul. This includes Matt 24 where Jesus tells his chosen judges of the twelve tribes about the sign of his coming.
Here are some clues that we do not fit in this audience.
Matt 24:13 salvation is received through endurance Yet, salvation today in the dispensation of Gods grace does not depend on our endurance through tribulation. It rests solely upon the finished work of Christ and provides salvation now.(Rom 5:11)
---michael_e on 11/13/15


Mat 24:13-14 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.
-Context-"then the end shall come."
-Knowing what the "end" is in context, David, are you going to "endure unto the end"?
-What is your reasoning for applying this verse to our Savior's work before we were even born?
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
---micha9344 on 11/13/15


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How can we be saved in the beginning, when Jesus says he will save those who endure to the end?
---David on 11/13/15

Have you not seen that in the Bible that salvation can be spoken of in past tense, present tense, and future tense?

My belief is "salvation" is Jesus, our life in Jesus, and we will not fully realize our "salvation" until the end of the ages.

But we can realize "salvation" today as we live out the life of Christ in our love for God and our neighbors.

And only because of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and the forgiveness of His father, can I live the life that Jesus has given to me.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/15


You find it difficult to accept that God saved us before we "accepted" Him.---Mark_Eaton

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Mark
How can we be saved in the beginning, when Jesus says he will save those who endure to the end?
---David on 11/13/15


Then tell me, if you still believe I am wrong.
---David on 11/12/15

You are still wrong.

You find it difficult to accept that God saved us before we "accepted" Him.

But here are more Scriptures:

Eph 2:4-5 "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved

2 Tim 1:9 "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began"
---Mark_Eaton on 11/12/15


then you will know you have been cleansed by the Blood of Christ, as the passage claims.
---David on 11/12/15

I hope at some time you study the NT book of Hebrews.

In the OT, when did the Hebrews get forgiveness of their sins from God? When the High Priest applied the blood to the Mercy Seat.

When did our High Priest Jesus apply the blood to the Mercy Seat? Hebrews 9:12 tells us that He applied His own blood, after His death.

And as Hebrews 10:10 tells us, by Jesus applying His blood one time to the Mercy Seat gave forgives to all for all time.

So Jesus is not applying His blood to the Mercy Seat every time a sinner asks for forgiveness.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/12/15


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If everyone's sins are already forgiven, then every single person would be forgiven. So the passage does not teach that. Why would God forgive everyone and then turn around and change His mind and say, you have to ask for forgiveness?
Jesus paid for the sins of all those who have put their faith in Jesus. We are made clean by Jesus blood. And those are forgiven for past, present and future sins. "A one time act by God." As believers, He requires all believers to physically ask for forgiveness every time we sin. It is our duty not God's. God has already forgiven us already.
He is faithful and just to always forgive His children when they later sin.
He chasten us when we sin, only to make us a better person.
---Luke on 11/12/15


I do not believe what you think it means-Mark_Eaton

Mark
I get that a lot, "I believe what the bible says, but I don't believe it says, what it says." Now we could argue this passage, or we could let God show you which one of us is right.

Get alone somewhere, get on your knees, and confess your sin before Almighty God.

Now when you get up from that confession, and go back out into the world, and notice evil, evil you didn't notice before the confession,... then you will know you have been cleansed by the Blood of Christ, as the passage claims.

Then tell me, if you still believe I am wrong.
---David on 11/12/15


To understand a passage you must relate to what is said around it or context.

So we must look at
1John 2:1,2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Our goal is to live without sin. But when we fail we have an advocate or as stated Hebrews a High Priest who will help us since he paid the penalty for sin.

But if sin is pre-forgiven then why would we need an advocate? Don't we have to ask for the forgiveness to get it?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/11/15


Does this mean you don't believe what's written in (1 John 1:9)?
---David on 11/11/15

No, I believe what 1 John 1:9 says. However, I do not believe what you think it means, that we must confess our sins to be forgiven and if we do not confess our sins, we have no forgiveness from God.

If you look at 1 John 1:5-10, I think you will get a sense that John is not writing about getting forgiveness from God, but that we must not conclude we are sinless and deceive ourselves. We must confess that we have sins, ask God to forgive our sins and walk in the light of Gods truth by loving others, loving God, and not making God a liar by seeing ourselves as sinless.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/11/15


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So God has already forgiven you, when Jesus died, long before you thought about confessing your sins to Him.--Mark_Eaton on 11/10/15

Mark
Does this mean you don't believe what's written in (1 John 1:9)?

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
---David on 11/11/15


"Those who decide to reject it find it foolish. Because they choose to not listen to GOD. They choose that they are smarter and know better then GOD."

Samuel, how easy you twisted the passage. The power of God is not for those who are perishing. The power of God is for only those that God is saving. Them only.
It's easy for those who believe that they have the power for their own salvation. You suggest you are smarter then those who do not receive Christ. If they could only see what you see.

Samuel, you see only because God has given you the light to see. Your heart is changed towards Christ in order for you to perceive. Otherwise you would never come to Christ.
Anyone who denies that, is not born of the Spirit.
---Luke on 11/10/15


Those who decide to reject it find it foolish. Because they choose to not listen to GOD. They choose that they are smarter and know better then GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/10/15


Trav, okay thanks. Now I'll understand your posts better.
---john1944 on 11/10/15


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How can this be true, when confession of sin is part of repentance, and (1 John 1:9) says you must confess sin to be forgiven?
---David on 11/4/15

I am sorry I missed your post.

Heb. 10:10 "By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"

In Hebrews, we see that Jesus died for all, not only the many or the elect as some teach, and that we have been sanctified by the death of Jesus. Jesus made the way for all of us to be adopted into the family of God by His death.

So God has already forgiven you, when Jesus died, long before you thought about confessing your sins to Him.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/10/15


"He cares about ALL his creation. He doesn't want anyone to die the second death. Christians, counterfeit christians, are the troublemakers."

Steven, God is in control of all things and knows all things. The way you answer, He is finding out that many are not accepting Him and will die a second death. You seem to say, He doesn't want anyone to die a second death.
Don't you know it's God who gives faith for salvation?

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" 1 Cor. 1:18.
If He cared about everyone equal, His message would not be foolishness to those who are perishing, it would be the power of God to them also.
---Luke on 11/10/15


Trav, do you believe that the modern 12 Tribes of Israel...
---john1944 on 11/9/15

They have all the scriptural marks.
Is a servant the highest level or the served?
Did GOD covenant a people or do I let you/man decide?

Deu_10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
What does Christ say?
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Heb 9:15...he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
---Trav on 11/9/15


Luke wrote: "God doesn't care for only those people. God cares about those He chose before the foundation of the world."

He cares about ALL his creation. He doesn't want anyone to die the second death. Christians, counterfeit christians, are the troublemakers. Denominational christians are causing people to hate christians. Jesus sat with sinners, and even healed them, and God the Father does good to the ungrateful and the evil person, why not christians do the same? Because they do not do what is commanded of God. He is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. In reality, Christians are causing people to hate christians.
---Steveng on 11/9/15


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Trav, do you believe that the modern 12 Tribes of Israel are actually Western Europeans and their progeny, especially the British, and Euro-Americans, and that those are the people God really cares about most?
---john1944 on 11/9/15


John, God doesn't care for only those people. God cares about those He chose before the foundation of the world. Those will come to Christ when God gives them faith. It could be when they are young or when they are old. But they will come to Christ with a contrite heart and accept the work Christ, that He did on the cross for their sins.
Those individuals will come from every nation.
---Luke on 11/7/15


Is it true that the modern 12 Tribes of Israel are actually Western Europeans and their progeny, especially the British, and Euro-Americans, and that those are the people God really cares about most?
---john1944 on 11/6/15


Trav
Sorry my friend, but I'm not going down only the 12 tribes of Israel will be saved road anymore.
---David on 11/4/15

Understand. Building a scaffold around Israels scriptures it becomes fearful. Few have the courage to embrace that GOD being GOD, will do exactly what he wants to do with who he wants to.
I never stated only Israel can be saved. Not my place. I only point what scripture does say repeatedly, the prophets and verses the teachers and churches avoid like the plague. You must also avoid you've posted. What is written before OT and after NT conflicts with modern doctrine. An observation now is ...you've seen the scriptures and deny but, it is after the Rooster/witness/scripture has crowed three times.
---Trav on 11/4/15


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When we are Born Again we are in a saving relationship.
---Samuelbb7


Samuel
When someone is born again, do you believe God lives in that person?

Remember, forgiveness comes before repentance. -Mark_Eaton

Mark
How can this be true, when confession of sin is part of repentance, and (1 John 1:9) says you must confess sin to be forgiven?

Trav
Sorry my friend, but I'm not going down only the 12 tribes of Israel will be saved road anymore.
---David on 11/4/15


For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's , and he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8b KJV
---john1944 on 11/3/15


I am sorry but He wanted us before the foundation of the world was laid and has not changed His mind.

---Mark_Eaton on 11/3/15


True.
The New Covenant Jeremiah wrote ahead of time.
Jer 31:31. And Isa_51:1 Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
Isa_45:4
Isa_65:22
It was predetermined with hundreds of witnesses testifying.
There is only one teacher. Only GOD draws.
---Trav on 11/3/15


No offence taken David.

When our relationship with Jesus starts we are born again.

When we are Born Again we are in a saving relationship.

Suppose a person accepts Jesus into their heart are Born Again and then a member of Isis hears this and shoots them. Are they saved? Will they be in heaven?

On the other hand this person says they are saved but they lives in sin of hatred of others. They feel no need to repent since their hate is justified.
They are not saved in my view.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/3/15


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Because this teaches folks they are born of God before the relationship ever begins, when it is through the relationship we will be saved.
---David on 11/3/15

But the relationship started long before we were born...

Rom 5:8 " But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us"

You seem to indicate that God changes His mind towards us when we want a relationship with Him. I am sorry but He wanted us before the foundation of the world was laid and has not changed His mind.

Remember, forgiveness comes before repentance. That is why salvation and justification are immediate.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/3/15


Salvation and Justification are in an instant.---Samuelbb7

Samuel
No disrespect intended, but this is the very teaching I teach against.
Why?
Because this teaches folks they are born of God before the relationship ever begins, when it is through the relationship we will be saved.

It has always been interesting to me, how folks come to God to be saved, when it's the relationship they truly desire.

I'm a practical application teacher. I lead folks to God with scripture, those promises of God which will bring them into the relationship they desire. Not a relationship they must believe they are in because I say so, but one they can actually see for themselves.
---David on 11/3/15


David, the passage you gave in Romans 6:7 which says ( For those who has died has been freed from sin ) Is not speaking of physical death.
When we are spiritually dead to sin but alive to Christ. We are crucified with Christ as believers.
( For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, )
And when a passage speaks we do not sin, it means we do not sin habitually. For all human beings sin. No one is without sin. But those who are lost sin habitually. We are no longer slaves to sin as believers.
---Luke on 11/3/15


David you're correct, many are taught a do nothing doctrine. Lutherans, Methodists, and most all other denominations used to teach what we as Seventh day Adventist teach.

When we are Born again. We are babies and our walk does not start out surefooted and perfect.

But as we die to self and live to others we become mature in Jesus. The Holy Spirit gives us power to overcome sin as we surrender to GOD and let Him be in charge. As Ephesians 2:10 says we are made to do good works. Why because we are saved and are to be overcomers.

Our goal each day is to love like Jesus loved. Then we will obey like Jesus obeyed.

Salvation and Justification are in an instant. But Sanctification is the work of a lifetime.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/2/15


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(Romans 6:7)For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Trav
How can someone who sins, call themselves free of the slavery of sin,...
---David on 10/31/15

Couple of problems. You don't recognize that it was Israel under the law. It was Israel condemned by the law. Israel now has the Laws written in their Heart and Mind Heb 8:10. Not accepting these two basic concepts you get tangled in and with Paul. Who is discussing the two houses and the very things you are tangled about. Been there done that. Go to the basics from the Prophets and Christ. Paul is not Christ or catholic.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
---Trav on 11/2/15


Trey had the only correct answer so far, on 10/19

There is a distinction between the inner man and the body of death.

The inner man has been cleansed, washed, regenerated, and has become the righteousness of God. A new creation, born again. Not able to sin.

But the sinful flesh is raging with selfishness.

And they both are influencing our psyche, our soul.

Jesus is the only man to perfect conquer the flesh, because He is God
---James_L on 10/31/15


In chapter one he states we are sinners. In chapter two he says our goal is to not sin.---Samuelbb7 on 10/31/15

Samuel
That's because there are two stages in the Christian life. And the contradiction appears, when folks believe there is only one.

The first stage, is one's willingness to become a servant of Jesus Christ. The second stage is being born again, not by works, but because your works, brings you the Love of God the Father.

Proof?(John 14:21 & 23)
However,... people won't accept this teaching, because Jesus teaches obedience to his commands are required to be saved, and they have been taught just the opposite of what Jesus taught. "The DO Nothing Doctrine".
---David on 11/1/15


Seth was also the begotten of Adam. I believe this means Seth was born of Adams seed, what you think it means in accordance with your understanding of the word "Begotten"?---David

You can use the word 'begotten' for Seth to mean being born of Adam.

But not use the word 'born' for the 2nd Person from the 1st Person of the Trinity.

God isn't born. No birth.

No beginning. No time.

I can say I was paid or given money for my services as inter-exchangeable words.

But, if I was given clothes for my services I can only say I was paid for my services.

I can't call the clothes: money.

'Clothes' and 'Money' are not interchangeable words as 'paid' and 'money'.

Do you understand?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/31/15


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(John 8:34) Everyone who sins is a slave of sin.
(Romans 6:7)For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Trav
How can someone who sins, call themselves free of the slavery of sin, when Jesus said "Everyone who sins, is a slave of sin."?

(Genesis 5:4)And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years, and he begot sons and daughters.

Nicole
Seth was also the begotten of Adam. I believe this means Seth was born of Adams seed, what you think it means in accordance with your understanding of the word "Begotten"?
---David on 10/31/15


True Nicole he was incarnated or born as Jesus.

I and my church agree with the Amplified version.

Good point Michael e

Our goal and the point of !John 3:9 must be taken in the context of 1john.

In chapter one he states we are sinners. In chapter two he says our goal is to not sin. But if we fail then we can get forgiveness from JESUS our High Priest.

So if you say 3:9 says we don't commit sins. Then you make it John contradict himself.

This is the reason we must always read the passage in Context.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/31/15


Nicole,
1. Do you believe that Christ existed from eternity past with God the Father and the Holy Spirit?

2. Do you believe that Christ is equal with God?

Just wondering...
---trey on 10/31/15


Nicole
To be clear, you don't believe Jesus Christ was born of the seed of God? If this is true, what's your denomination?---David on 10/30/15

Catholic, Latin Rite.

The 2nd Person of the Trinity, God is Begotten of the 1st Person of the Trinity.

3rd Person is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus who is the 2nd Person of the Trinity was Incarnated by the Holy Spirit.

It's in our Nicene Creed we voiced out loud every Sunday during Mass:

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father,....He came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/30/15


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When we are saved, a battle begins between our saved soul and our unsaved body ( Rom 7:18-25)
as long as any person has flesh, it will always be warring against the spiritual mind
When we are delivered from this body of death, we will be delivered from sin completely
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not, but what I hate, that do I
Notice our apostle speaks in present not past tense
---michael_e on 10/30/15


Trav
Paul is writing of his experience,.... his experience when sin lived in him.
---David on 10/30/15

He established his present tense, mentioning Christ and why I posted Rom 7:25 scripture below. You and I struggle no differently.
We know he is Israel...his testimony shows the covenanted law, also as posted.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul witness aligns with Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 10/30/15


But praise God that He came to save us from our sin (Matthew 1:21)!
Just my personal thoughts but I'd be open to hear your takes on these thoughts!
---Ruthanna on 10/29/15

As to David it was a eyeopener at forty years of age being pointed to scripture that explains this struggle Israel has. . If you have or see this struggle or the marks of the heart then it is self explanatory.
Heb 8:10/Jer 31:31-33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Many do not like these verses...but then, I didn't write them)
---Trav on 10/30/15


Jesus isn't Born of the God but BEGOTTEN. ---Nicole_Lacey

Nicole
To be clear, you don't believe Jesus Christ was born of the seed of God? If this is true, what's your denomination?

So why do we sin?--michael_e

Michael
Jesus answered that question in (John 8:34). He said, it's because, "Everyone who sins is a slave to sin."
Do you believe everyone who sins is a slave of sin?

Trav
Paul is writing of his experience,.... his experience when sin lived in him. An experience before he was born of the seed of God.
---David on 10/30/15


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I hope its okay to jump into the middle of this conversation?
Just wondering ... Have you ever considered Romans 7 as the old man before conversion and Romans 8 as the new man who has been born again?

The Scripture that helps me realize that I can not be sinlessly perfect is I John 1:5-10 but that a true Christian does not LIVE in sin and can find victory and that it is possible to live a victorious Christian life ... I John 2:1-6 And 5:13-18.
Someone e also shares that with me before. If I felt there was no hope of victory I would hardly see the worth of being a Christian. But praise God that He came to save us from our sin (Matthew 1:21)!
Just my personal thoughts but I'd be open to hear your takes on these thoughts!
---Ruthanna on 10/29/15


You believe, those who are born of God will continue to sin after they are born of God.
Can you show me scripture which says this? Scripture which lead you to this conclusion?
---David on 10/29/15

Michael will answer for his self on this but, this came to my mind on your question.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul witness aligns with Heb 8:10/Jer 31:33.
---Trav on 10/29/15


1 John. Who is speaking, to whom is he speaking (Gal 2:9)
Have you found a believer that didnt sin? The Divine part of us can't sin. So why do we sin? Because the other part takes over.(Gal 5:17,18 flesh vs Spirit theyre opposites) "so that ye cannot do the things that you would."
We have a Divine nature, but we still have the old sin nature within us, and whichever you feed the most is going to prevail.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not, but what I hate, that do I.
---michael_e on 10/29/15


..they trust in the teachings of man, and not in Christ.---David

Christ walked on earth for 33 years and gave His teachings to men so they can PAST the same teaching to other men who were not blessed to hear Jesus Voice as the Apostles were.

The book of Acts explains how the teaching of Christ are past from man to man to today.

Please explain Matthew 28:20
"...teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

And Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the One who sent me."

The Moderator is Correct.
Jesus isn't Born of the God but BEGOTTEN.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/29/15


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Michael
Sorry for not responding Michael, my lap top hasn't been working the last few days.

You believe, those who are born of God will continue to sin after they are born of God.
Can you show me scripture which says this? Scripture which lead you to this conclusion?
---David on 10/29/15


//Why are they liars? //
Because they say something that is untrue
---michael_e on 10/26/15


I've known some who say they don't sin, but they lie, because all sin.---michael_e on 10/17/15

Michael
Why are they liars? Is it because the Bible doesn't support their claims, or is it because you have not experienced it?

It's easy to be called "born again", when you define by a doctrine, and not by the Bible. (1 John 3:9-10) only deals with sin, What about your heart? Shall we deny the Truth in (1 John 2:15), (1 John 4:20) & (1 John 5:2) too?

You can deny what is written in (1 John 3:9-10), but can you deny your own heart? Is there anyone you hate? If there is, according to Jesus, you are not "born again".

---David on 10/26/15


Scott
It's astounding, how we are able to make excuses for our own sins, but not the sins of others. Christ, and those born of God, do not see sinful man as evil, they see the evil which lives in the man.

This is why we can not judge others, for all, except Christ, were born of the same seed. It's much like a virus that lives in all of us, and through Christ, we can destroy that virus.

Just as a cough and a fever are the symptoms of a Flu virus, the sins of sinful man are the symptoms of the evil which lives in us.
Sin must die, so Christ can live in us. How do we bring about its death? (John 14:23).

In most, sin never dies, because they trust in the teachings of man, and not in Christ.
---David on 10/22/15


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Define Born of God-Scott1 on 10/19/15

Scott
Two things are required for birth. An egg and a seed. In our case, both were provided by man. But in the case of Jesus Christ, Mary provided the egg, but the seed was provided by God.

It was because Jesus was born of the "Holy seed" of God, that he could not sin, for sin comes from the evil which lives in the hearts of those born of the seed of man. (Matthew 15:19)

And this is why we must be born again, born without this evil in our hearts. When we are born like Christ, we shall also love like Christ. Those born of God love everyone, as Christ loved even the lowliest of sinners.
---David on 10/21/15


Whosoever is born of God--"Everyone that is regenerated / born again / quickened, etc."

doth not commit sin-- the new man / the inner man cannot sin. (The fleshly portion of the man still sins, leading to internal conflict - Romans 7:21)

his seed--meaning the new creature/new man created by the renovation of the Holy Spirit.

remaineth--abideth/liveth in him.

cannot sin--the new nature is sinless. God has changed the man's nature.

because he is born of God--the inner man has been made perfect by God.
---trey on 10/19/15


Define Born of God

I believe that God, the Son (2nd member of trinity), manifested himself into the human race through the virgin birth of Mary. So that he is not tainted by Adam's (man's) sin to be the perfect sacrifice
---Scott1 on 10/19/15


This verse says nothing about Jesus.-Scott1

Scott
I guess that all depends on which Bible translation you use. I prefer those which say, "Those who are born of God, do not sin, for they can not sin, because they have been born of God."

Why?
For those who believe the other translations which say, "those born of God sin", only they don't make a habit of it, must also believe the same of Jesus Christ, since he was one of "Those" who was born of God.
---David on 10/19/15


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This verse says nothing about Jesus.
---Scott1 on 10/18/15


Trinity is interesting concept and helpful for Christians I think.
---santimoy.kumar on 10/17/15


Moderator - Jesus Christ is part of the Trinity and was NEVER born or created.

Moderator
I too believe the first part of your statement, but as to the second part, do you not believe what it says in (Luke 2:11)?

People, who aren't born again, struggle with understanding Scripture because they're trying to interpret it for themselves--Leon

Leon
But if those who define themselves as being born of God, doesn't match the Biblical definition of those born of God, does their interpretation come from Gods Holy Spirit, or from man?

I understand that (1 John 3:9) is not talking about Jesus who is the Son of God.
-Bill


You don't believe Jesus was born of God?

---David on 10/17/15


The translation that best describes "those born of God" is the KJV. For those that are born of God "do not sin" if sin is understood to mean, in this context, as "missing the mark" of man's "high calling of God In Christ," so as to not share in the prize of His salvation through the atoning sacrifice of His Son. The repentant believer who Has confessed their sin, their need of a saviour, and Jesus, The Christ, as that Savior, has hit that mark, and therefore can not sin, for they have been "born of God," as renewed and regenerated in their thinking, from above. Jesus, The Christ, bore our sin in His own body and took it away. 1Pe 2:24>Jhn 1:29
---joseph on 10/17/15


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I John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God. ( whoever has eternal life by virtue of believing) doth not commit sin,."
Ive known some who say they don't sin, but they lie, because all sin. That Divine nature in us, that comes as a result of salvation, whether it was the Jewish economy or ours, the Divine part cannot sin, but the flesh can. Ref Gal 5:17,18
The sin nature says "Do it." The new nature says, "I cant." And so its a constant battle.
---michael_e on 10/17/15


I understand that 1 John 3:9 is not talking about Jesus who is the Son of God.

To "sin" can mean to leave God permanently. Or, "sin" can mean to do some thing which is a sin.

I think it is clear how Christians have sinned, even after being filled with the Holy Spirit > for one example, Peter > Galatians 2:11-13. But Peter was corrected. He did not permanently depart from God.

And Jesus has not sinned, at all >

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)
---Bill on 10/16/15


David: I mean you no offense, but are you born again? In my experience, I've observed that many well meaning & intelligent people, who aren't born again, struggle with understanding Scripture because they're trying to interpret it for themselves instead of having it explained to them by the leading of God, the Holy Spirit.
---Leon on 10/16/15


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