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Perceived Wrongs Of Catholic Two

Perceived Wrongs of Catholic Continued

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 ---Darlene_1 on 10/22/15
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I am posting the following for all to read and make their own conclution if mary is worshipped.



"IT is impossible for clients of Mary to be damned, if they faithfully honor her and commend themselves to her."

"We are speaking of those clients of Mary who sincerely determine to do better and are faithful in honoring her and recommending themselves to her. I say it is morally impossible for such people to be lost."

THE GLORIES of MARY ch 8 by Alphonsus De Liguori

My rc and eo friends only the Lord Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture can do this for you...

Please turn from this sin of idolatry and trust and call upon the Jesus of Holy Scripture to be merciful to you and save you.
---john on 11/3/15


Please bear with me,I'm searching, Where in the Bible does it say when we take the Lords bread/flesh and blood/wine it actually turns into flesh and blood. That is contrary to God's commands time and again He told Israel not to eat the blood because the life is in the blood. Deuteronomy 12:16 But you must not eat the blood pour it out on the ground like water.Acts 15:20 Abstain from ----blood. It also says anyone who does eat blood will be cut off from their people,our Spiritual people are Christians. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 11/3/15


Cluny states, "Jesus Himself made a distinction between LATREIA, DOULEIA, and PROSKYNYSIS in the Gospels."

The OT and the NT states no distinction between latria and dulia in a religious context.

see, gal 4:8


Also, the Latin Vulgate, latria and dulia are the same.
---john9346 on 11/3/15


\\That she is due a lower form of worship then the trinity.

The problem is that it is still worship.\\

Jesus Himself made a distinction between LATREIA, DOULEIA, and PROSKYNYSIS in the Gospels.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/15


Nicole,

I see, you posted cluny's question from another blog of which was answered historically and factually...

Nicole said, "As am I on the CCC# in which the RCC teaches the should worship Mary and other falsehoods spoken by him."

Mediatrix and co-redemptrix ccc 969

queen over all things ccc 966


IMMACULATE CONCEPTION -- Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception. ccc 490-492.

ALL HOLY - Mary, the All-Holy, lived a perfectly sinless life. ccc 411, 493

Mother of God ccc 963, 971, 2677

asumption of Mary ccc 966, 974
---john9346 on 11/3/15




But to those who sin, the worship of God is an abomination.

Sirach 1:32
---john1944 on 11/2/15


Well trav you have a good true list there that I cannot disagree with.

In the online RCC catechism that I looked up Sections 963 to 975 explains their view of Mary. That she is due a lower form of worship then the trinity.

The problem is that it is still worship.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/2/15


//Spinning again.//
No it's called studying.
//Only 11, because Judas was dead.//
Thomas was absent
//Which means NOT EVERYONE can forgive sins or not//
You are right, only one can forgive sin, Jesus the Christ.
You might want to leave the OT (Mt-JN) and find where you are in Christ
Our apostle commands us to follow him as he followed Christ
---michael_e on 11/2/15


So truly, love your enemies. Do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return. And then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and to the wicked. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Luke 6:35-37
---john1944 on 11/2/15


Nicole,

you posted Cluny's Question to which was answered historically and factually with the following sources:


The Pope and the Council by Johann Joseph Ignaz von Dllinger (RC Historian)

the work by Thomas Aquinas "Against the Errors of the Greeks." AD 1264.

George Salmon, Historian The Infallibility of the Church (London: John Murray, 1914), pp. 449, 451, 453).


- Richard McBrien, Lives of the Popes: The Pontiffs from St. Peter to John Paul II

- P. G. Maxwell-Stuart, Chronicle of the Popes: The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Papacy over 2000 Years

- Geoffrey Barraclough, The Medieval Papacy (Library of World Civilization)
---john on 11/2/15




Samuel BB said, "50,000,000 Martyrs perished."

Fifty million? There were only 200 million in 100 A.D. If, throughout the years persecutors killed 50 million people, then those Apostles got around. (And I mean all around, even being able to talk to the native Americans, Incas, Mayas and so forth. What rates of travel they had back then! I wish we could do that good today!

(BTW, Foxe's Book of Martyrs is a very slanted, anti-Catholic book that only talks about the Protestant churches in Europe.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/2/15


Trav, can you say and prove who teaches the litany of things you wrote?

Please cite your sources.

Your #2 Jesus did teach and COMMAND us to eat His Body and drink His Blood
My source: John Chapter 6.

The rest is just you speaking nonsense.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/2/15


This was a good start from John. I'm re-posting this for others.

1. Jesus never taught to pray and worship his mother and saints.

2. Jesus never taught to eats his litteral physical body and blood (cannibalism).

3. Jesus never taught salvation was found in the RC or EO church (sola ekklesia), but himself see jn 14:6.

4. Jesus never taught a man (the pope) is infallible.

5. Jesus never taught purgatory, indulgences, and the Treasury of Merit.
---john on 10/30/15

I'll add that Christ never taught that we were to use the ancient, done away with Judaic custom of confessing to a Priest.

There is only one High Priest and he's not orthocatholic. Or any denom for that matter.
---Trav on 11/2/15


He was replaced.
Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
If you go to Acts 1 you will see Christ ascends, He is no longer hanging on a Cross.
You will also see how Judas was replaced --michael_e on 11/1/15

Spinning again.

I said JESUS did not breathe the Holy Spirit on 12 Apostles when giving them the Authority to forgive or not forgive sins.

Only 11, because Judas was dead.

Jesus didn't breathe on Mary who saw Him first either.

Which means NOT EVERYONE can forgive sins or not.

Acts is after the Gospel of John.

It is called Acts because it is about how the Apostles kept Jesus' Words and Acted on them.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/2/15


Catholicism teaches Peter, one of the 12 apostles to Israel was the first pope
Peter says ".. ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation.."
(ref Ex 19:6)
Some protestants claim this verse also.
So Catholics and some protestants must be "a nation of priests"
You say there is only 11 because one died. He was replaced.
Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
If you go to Acts 1 you will see Christ ascends, He is no longer hanging on a Cross.
You will also see how Judas was replaced
---michael_e on 11/1/15


I'm still waiting for either John to tell me which Eastern Orthodox doctrine developed over time.---Cluny on 10/31/15

As am I on the CCC# in which the RCC teaches the should worship Mary and other falsehoods spoken by him.

I have the feeling we are going to be waiting for a very long time.

John, if you need more time just tell us so we don't think you are ignoring us.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/31/15


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Hi Chria, your point is well received. But, Jesus told God to forgive those who were killing His Flesh.

Jesus gave the Apostles powers NOT to forgive sins as well which everyone is forgetting.

Michael e, please explain why Jesus didn't breathe the Holy Spirit on Mary.

She was the first one to see Jesus after He rose.

Cute question:
Which one of the 12 Apostles who I confess to?

But, you forgot there were only 11 Apostles present when Jesus breathed on them.
One killed himself.

So, since you believe that the Breathing of the Holy Spirit GOES BEYOND the 11 because you said 12 which happens in ACTS, I am pleased to know you believe in Confession by Anointed Men.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/31/15


I've found many errors in HBH, especially in what he says about Orthodoxy.

And just who are these historians?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/31/15


Where Protestants come up murdered by Rome?

Halley's Bible Handbook, 1965 edition, 726, & 776) Historians estimate that, in the Middle Ages and Early Reformation Era, more than 50,000,000 Martyrs perished. Furthermore, speaking of Innocent III, More Blood was Shed under his direction, and that of his immediate successors, than at any other period of Church History, except in the Papacy's effort to Crush the Reformation in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Introduction to [Berg, Lectures on Romanism, D. Weidner, Philadelphia, 1840, p.6], Brownlee, Rome has been drunk with the blood of fifty millions of martyred Culdees, Waldenses, Albigenses, Bohemian Brethren, Wicklifites, and Protestants!

Foxes book of Martyrs.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/31/15


StrongAxe: Your numbers reflect the Spanish Inquisition only, and that after the Catholic revisionism of the 1960's. Papal caused genocide ranged from Ireland, Holland, Germany, France, Italy and even as far as India. The target was primarily Sabbatarians, both Protestant Christian and Jew.

The St. Bartholomew Day Massacre (August 24, 1572) in Paris alone killed 18,000 in just a few days. 250,000 Dutch, 900,000 Waldensians, 500,000 French Huguenots, and many countries in central Europe lost up to half their population.

I have seen reliable estimates of from 50 to 150 million murdered. I averaged it at 100 million. Even one life so cruelly ended is too many for someone who claims to be the Vicar of Christ.


---jerry6593 on 10/31/15


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Jerry,

I believe the actual number of those slaughtered by the RCC was only around 32 million. Earlier I stated 50 million but who's keeping score. Many of them were killed during the Dark Ages but the murdering of true Christians by the RCC began around 250 AD.
When I mentioned this to one woman who is of the Catholic faith, she stated "and they needed to be killed they were heretics!" Her statement was a little shocking!!!
---trey on 10/31/15


What are you asking me to prove? --john9346 on 10/30/15

Thanks for asking.

All these MEAN FALSEHOODS YOU WROTE:
PROVE IT IS IN OUR CCC BY GIVING THE # OF THE CCC

Our faith is in print. We don't hide Jesus' Truth.

You wrote this:

the rc exalt mary to God Qualities such as queen of heaven, the universe, of all things, cause of joy, co-redeemer, and spouse of the Holy Spirit.

This teaching of the worship of mary has led muslims to believe the Christian Trinity is the Father, the Son, and Mary.

they reject it as shirk and is a barrier to them believing in the real Jesus of Holy Scripture.---john9346 on 10/23/15
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/30/15


Nicole said, "
John, Gave # from CCC.
Not, "it's in there" PROVE IT!"

What are you asking me to prove?
---john9346 on 10/30/15


jerry6593:

You said: The greatest single wrong of the RCC was the genocide during the dark ages of over 100 million Jesus-loving Christians for the high crime of obeying their conscience by not bowing to the authority of the papacy. Much like the Muslims. That puts the papacy right up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot.

Where did you get your figures? The Black Death was one of the worst tragedies to hit Europe, and it killed around 75-200 million. If the Church killed as many, surely that would have been noted as such? I have read that the death toll in the Inquisition was around 2000-5000, 4-5 orders of magnitude smaller than 100 million.
---StrongAxe on 10/30/15


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\\The greatest single wrong of the RCC was the genocide during the dark ages of over 100 million Jesus-loving Christians for the high crime of obeying their conscience by not bowing to the authority of the papacy\\

You may not know your history, but you sure know your propaganda, don't you?

The Dark Ages from from about 500 to 1000. There weren't that many people in Europe at that point.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/30/15


The greatest single wrong of the RCC was the genocide during the dark ages of over 100 million Jesus-loving Christians for the high crime of obeying their conscience by not bowing to the authority of the papacy. Much like the Muslims. That puts the papacy right up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot.


---jerry6593 on 10/30/15


\\The people who lived then didn't know which was the correct pope or popes since there were more then two a number of times.\\

There was only ONE time when there were three popes (bishops of Rome) at once and the Council of Constance deposed all three of them and elected a new Pope. Not several as you claim here.

The Eastern Orthodox patriarchs have NEVER claimed either universal jurisdiction, primacy, or infallibility for themselves.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/29/15


The people who lived then didn't know which was the correct pope or popes since there were more then two a number of times. This was hashed out much latter.

So did the people who were confused lost or just spent a few thousand more years in purgatory since they did not know which was the correct pope?

When the church was undivided and there were four popes who looked on each other as equals. Three Greek rite. Why doesn't the RCC recognize the other Popes from the time before it existed?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/29/15


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A large segment of the "professing Church" does not tell her followers that believers in Christ are given a position in heaven at Gods right hand (Eph. 2:4-7). She even brings Christ down from His position and offers Him to the world on a crucifix, requiring men to eat His flesh and drink His blood to be saved.
Paul, by the Spirit, says:
yea, THOUGH WE HAVE KNOWN CHRIST AFTER THE FLESH, YET NOW, HENCEFORTH, KNOW WE HIM NO MORE (II Cor. 5:16).

Her followers are occupied with beads and bells, statues and crucifixes, candlesticks and sacred objects,
she departed from the teachings of Paul and from his declaration that we walk by faith, not by sight (II Cor. 5:7).
---michael_e on 10/29/15


The Pope was removed to France where he died in exile.

In the Lateran Treaty of 1929, Mussolini gave the papacy nation status as the Vatican--jerry6593 on 10/28/15

Your History is off.

The Pope wasn't removed he fled. A difference but he still was Pope until the 14 century and back in France in the 15 century.
There was an anti-pope in Rome.

1929 Treaty was to make sure
Mussolini didn't run the RCC. So that's why Vatican City is the smallest Country in the world
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/28/15


StrongAxe:

1260 years -

In 538 A.D. the Ostragoths abandoned their siege of Rome -- and this left the Bishop of Rome to excercise the perogatives of Justinian's decree of 533 A.D. (papal supremacy).

deadly wound -

1260 years later, in 1798 the French general Berthier, with a French army, marched into Rome and proclaimed the political rule of the Papcy at an end and took the Pope prisoner. The Pope was removed to France where he died in exile.

The deadly wound healed -

In the Lateran Treaty of 1929, Mussolini gave the papacy nation status as the Vatican.


---jerry6593 on 10/28/15


I forgot to mention that ELLEN GOULD WHITE (a woman) adds up to 666, too.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/15


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StrongAxe, God and I do not care what OTHERS think one is doing but what is in the heart.

If everyone thinks I am a killer doesn't mean I am. God knows I am not.

Micha, read Luke again.
The Angel address Mary by title. No name called.

John, Gave # from CCC.
Not, "it's in there" PROVE IT!

Santimoy, because Jesus is present and He is the King of Peace.

Darlene, the true translation is Grace.
But no matter if your favored you are have God's Graces, right? Highly favored still means full of Graces
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/27/15


jerry6593:

You said: Persecuted the saints of God for 1260 years (42 months or 3 1/2 times).

Could you elaborate on which exact years those were? Please be specific, i.e. what started the persecution, and what ended it.

Thinks to change times and laws.
Suffered a deadly wound that was healed.
And all the world wonders after her.


You are confusing two totally different entities - the beast, and the woman who rides the beast.

Besides, if you think the RCC is the beast because it "thinks to change times and laws", it is woefully inadequate to the title, since people all over the world are able to buy and sell without the RCC's permission.
---StrongAxe on 10/27/15


Therefore, applying your own standards, all Baptists are corrupt, too.
---Cluny on 10/26/15

I've never defended the protestant denominational churches. But rather their individualistic choice and wisdom of leaving your "Judean Orthodoc's" and catholic ritualistic wide way.
By the same way the slugs entered into your system of men, they have entered into the denominational church as well.
Neither honor, address or follow scripture. Hirelings for the most part are the leaders now. For money and P.C. reasons they allow anything and everything.
Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
---Trav on 10/27/15


\\Has it's seat on seven mountains.//

Rome sits on nine hills. Mecca, however, sits on 7 hills. So does Jerusalem.

\\Arises from among the 10 nations after the fall of pagan Rome, and as a "little horn," it roots up 3 of the 10.\\

When did pagan Rome fall and what are these 10 nations and what are the 3 it rips up?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/15


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The RCC:

Is both a woman (church) and a city.

Has it's seat on seven mountains.

Arises from among the 10 nations after the fall of pagan Rome, and as a "little horn," it roots up 3 of the 10.

Is diverse from the other powers - as iron and clay are unmixable.

Has the eyes of a man and a name which may be counted to total 666.

Speaks blasphemy - two examples of which are given by the Bible as (1) claiming to be God and (2) claiming the power to forgive sins against God.

Persecuted the saints of God for 1260 years (42 months or 3 1/2 times).

Thinks to change times and laws.

Suffered a deadly wound that was healed.

And all the world wonders after her.

---jerry6593 on 10/27/15


\\Throw in pedophiles as humble priests.\\

In the last Baptist Church with which I was associated, the minister of music had a taste for teenage boys, and the pastor was an adulterer.

Therefore, applying your own standards, all Baptists are corrupt, too.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/15


...practices of the RCC were corrupted by certain people with influence.
However, the Sacraments of the Church have always been free of charge, ...
---Monk_Brendan on 10/26/15

Corrupted influences. Exactly. Throw in pedophiles as humble priests.

Salvation to sheep drawn to GOD...does not need to come from your "corrupted institutions".
Who does not give them free but, requires you to submit/disciple in their corrupt system.
Drawn to GOD only by himself, is not your churches to give "free". You are not a "free" conduit to GOD but a "wide" way of men.

Isa 63:(16)-19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them, they were not called by thy name.
---Trav on 10/26/15


Yes Cluny the Counter reformation did end many of the extreme abuses of the RCC teachings and Popes.

They stopped short of truly reforming back to scripture rule.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/26/15


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Jorge Mario Bergoglio gave a speech to our legislative leaders.
For someone with supposedly apostolic authority from Christ, why would he not mention the Lord Jesus Christ.
When the Spirit upon Peter at Pentecost he testified to religious and political leaders in Israel of the need for faith in Jesus Christ as King. Acts 4:12
I bring this up because the Catholic church teaches Peter was the first Pope,
---michael_e on 10/26/15


Michael E said, " My young friend, you being orthodox ... probably don't know of some of the catholic confessions and the payment thereof. As liberal as Catholics and Protestants have become, hopefully that nonsense has changed"

I will agree that some of the practices of the RCC were corrupted by certain people with influence. However, the Sacraments of the Church have always been free of charge, and that has been taught since Day 1.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/26/15


Sometimes I sit quietly in a Catholic church. It can be very peaceful.
---santimoy.kumar on 10/26/15


// I'm aware of the accusations,//
one accusation is true.
I learned long ago confessing sins to a "man" in a "closet" was pure ignorance.
---michael_e on 10/26/15


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\\My young friend, you being orthodox (not the same as rcc, your words) probably don't know of some of the catholic confessions and the payment thereof. \\

I'm aware of the accusations, but I've never seen ANY documentation for this.

Can you provide it?

BTW, the selling of indulgences was suppressed by the Council of Trent. Did you know that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/15


michael_e:

You wrote: My young friend, you being orthodox (not the same as rcc, your words) probably don't know of some of the catholic confessions and the payment thereof.

I'm confused. Which confessions are those, and what kind of payments are you referring to?


Cluny:

michael_e wrote: Saramental practice of self punishment diminishes the judgment for all our sins taken by Christ

You wrote: I have no idea what you mean by this, michael. Do you? If so, please explain.

I think what he means is, if Jesus died for our sins, but even after that, we still need to punish ourselves even more, it means we demean his sacrifice by saying it wasn't sufficient.
---StrongAxe on 10/25/15


My young friend, you being orthodox (not the same as rcc, your words) probably don't know of some of the catholic confessions and the payment thereof. As liberal as Catholics and Protestants have become, hopefully that nonsense has changed
---michael_e on 10/25/15


\\How come the Pope can get all the people out of purgatory since he has the repository of good works from the saints to set them free but chooses not too?\\

The Roman Catholic doctrine of indulgences and merits is NOT what you have said here.

As it is NOT an Orthodox teaching, I need say no more. Let Nicole explain it to you.
---Cluny on 10/25/15


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Darlene said, "Actually I found Grace as given in Strong's means favor,God extending Himself to people."

Actually, Grace means unmerited favor. There is no way that we can say to God, "But I led many revivals, and won souls for Christ, You owe me!" All of God's Grace is just that, unmerited favor. Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 10/25/15


\\Saramental practice of self punishment diminishes the judgment for all our sins taken by Christ
\\

I have no idea what you mean by this, michael. Do you?

If so, please explain.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/15


Joe is walking down the road. He looks at a woman and has a wrong thought. Then a car hits him and he asks for forgiveness then dies.

We understand he is saved and that he will rise in the resurrection to live in Heaven.

Are you saying he has to work off the sin?

How come the Pope can get all the people out of purgatory since he has the repository of good works from the saints to set them free but chooses not too?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/25/15


Gods true Church has no earthly wealth, no huge bureaucracy, no billions tied up in real estate, investments, and bank accounts and no money to maintain these assets. God's true church is not made by man's hands. All denominational churches are also nothing more than government owned businesses. (Mark 12:17) Denominational churches will compromise biblical truth to keep their non-profit status. How many denominational churches will sell all its worldly assets to feed the poor?

Is Christ divided?
---Steveng on 10/25/15


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Nicole,

What Muhammad learned about Christianity he learned from a catholic/orthodox denomination.

What I cited about mary in my prior response to you does in fact come from the rc catechism.

Which are indeed qualities of a deity.
---john9346 on 10/25/15


Nicole: "So much that most call Lucifer satan.
I bet many people know the word satan but not his real name."

I disagree. His name was Lucifer (light bearer), but his name was changed when "iniquity was found in him" (Eze 28:15). He also goes by other names, but no longer Lucifer, as:

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


---jerry6593 on 10/25/15


For the bigger religions repentance is changed into a means by which people present their own works as a sacrifice for sins.
Sins are not forgiven unless there is what is called true repentance which involves penitent works.
The sacrament of penance is a large part of the religion where rosaries, icons, fasting, crucifixes, candles, and priests are used to free people from their sins.
Saramental practice of self punishment diminishes the judgment for all our sins taken by Christ
---michael_e on 10/24/15


\\but you see what grace means is favor and most translations say favor.\\

The Orthodox Church teaches that grace is God Himself acting in us, not mere favor. This cannot be otherwise since God is no respecter of persons, according to the Bible.

It doesn't matter what other translations say. If they are fudging on the translation of CHARIS, they are still fudging the translation.

Beyond this, I will say no more on the topic of the Virgin Mary. It's foolish to discuss her in front of people who don't even believe her Son is fully God and fully human in one Person.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/15


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Nicole Lacey Try as I have to see that the way you do but you see what grace means is favor and most translations say favor. We see things differently and I will leave it there. Ha ha no my husband didn't call me pretty,he called me Fats even when I was 114 lbs. Take care . God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 10/23/15


\\/The Angel didn't even called Mary by name, but by title.
"Hail, full of Grace."\-Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15
-But the angel did not say that to her.
---micha9344 on 10/23/15\\

In Luke 1, he did.

The Greek word is KECHARITOMENI, from the root CHARIS, which everywhere else in the KJV is rendered "grace." This is one place where the KJV translators fudged things.

KECHARITOMENI means "totally graced up," or more euphoniously, "full of grace."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/15


/I am noting that Mary wasn't addressed by her name as everyone else in the Bible.\-Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15
Jdg 6:12 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD [is] with thee, thou mighty man of valour.
-Not everyone.
---micha9344 on 10/24/15


I'm reluctant to discuss Marian doctrine on these blogs.

It's a useless task to do so in front of people who don't even believe her Son is God Incarnate.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/15


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Darlene, when I am talking 'title' for Mary, I am noting that Mary wasn't addressed by her name as everyone else in the Bible.

The Angel called her by title.
As a Judge, Police Officer, or even Teacher.

Mary was so FULL of GOD'S GRACES the Angel addressed her my God's Gift.

I am sure your husband called you pretty instead of your name.

Come here pretty or beautiful.

That's the kind of title I mean.

Which it can go the opposite way as well.

Satan true name is Lucifer.

The Hebrew word satan means "an adversary, one who resists."

So much that most call Lucifer satan.
I bet many people know the word satan but not his real name.

That's what I mean by title.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15


Everybody knows to pray to someone is to worship them. ---john

You do, NOT me and I am part of everybody.
Pray is a form of communication. Watch an old English Movie.
They use the word 'pray' a lot.

Some think $100,000 is a lot of money.
Not Bill Gates. Me, yes.
Understand?

The LIES of claiming we worship Mary has confused Muslims.

Who taught them we worship Mary, NOT the RCC?
NO WHERE IN THE CCC.
But, in your post.
The RCC never states Mary is God's equal, but you have several times, John.

Do you see the Differences?

Quote the CCC for proof. PROVE IT.
All over beliefs are all documented because WE are NOT ashamed to put into print our beliefs.

Are your beliefs in print?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15


"Perceived Wrongs of Catholic Continued" by who? Matthew 7:1-2
---Leon on 10/23/15


Nicole said, "This is a perceived wrongs, but not by Catholics but by non Catholics judging Catholics."

Well, an individual or individuals can only be judged by what they do or don't do.

the rc exalt mary to God Qualities such as queen of heaven, the universe, of all things, cause of joy, co-redeemer, and spouse of the Holy Spirit.

This teaching of the worship of mary has led muslims to believe the Christian Trinity is the Father, the Son, and Mary.

they reject it as shirk and is a barrier to them believing in the real Jesus of Holy Scripture.

See sura 5:72-77 and 116 koran.

Everybody knows to pray to someone is to worship them.
---john9346 on 10/23/15


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Our common unity of faith must bond us together and not let differences in non-essentials divide us.

I am letting this subject die out without replying further.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/23/15

There is no common unity between the two groups. You stated the differences for "sheep" to be aware of them. Now you are not behaving like a shepherd but, a hireling.
I for one of many appreciated the thought, effort and factual research you put into your replies and rebukes.
You might consider that Christ is "division" and a sword. Not a universalist. That all are not "sheep". Shine light where it is the darkest...that is where light is appreciated.
Eze_37:28 And the heathen shall know ...
---Trav on 10/23/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: No where in the Bible, nor the CCC states we (Catholics) worship Mary.

True in theory, not always in practice. For example, many Catholics in Latin American countries have shrines to Mary and other saints, where they light candles, and offer offerings of flowers, fruits, grains, etc. They get ecstatic when they see what they percieve to be the face of Mary in a tortilla. These are not acts of mere honor as one gives to another human, they are acts of worship, as one gives to gods.

The fact that the people believe these things, and their priests do not disabuse them of such notions, means that some Catholics DO worship Mary and other saints, regardless of "official" church teaching.
---StrongAxe on 10/23/15


That "common unity" you are talking about will usher in the one world church and the Antichrist. Light has no place with darkness.
---KarenD on 10/23/15


Nicole Lacey with all respect to your view and opinion but I looked up Grace because I was curious why you think it is a title. Actually I found Grace as given in Strong's means favor,God extending Himself to people. Yes I agree Grace is used as a title as in a King being called your Grace but that is not the case with Mary. I do not remember anywhere the Bible saying Mary was pregnant with God or He was the Ark of the Covenant in her womb. The Ark of the Covenant was only in operation under the Old Covenant not the new. Until Christ was crucified as the Lamb of God the Old Covenant was still in effect.Jesus was carried by Mary not God. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 10/23/15


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Our common unity of faith must bond us together and not let differences in non-essentials divide us.---Mark_Eaton on 10/23/15

I agree. This common unity also should demand respect from each other's statements.

If one says they does or doesn't do or believe something then it should be the end of the matter.

I believe states why the question is been asked because non-Catholics keep confusing other non-Catholics of Catholic's beliefs
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15


Cluny not all of whats in the Bible is meant to be solely spiritual,there's even history in it. The only spiritual thing about the prediction Mary would be called blessed was the prediction and who gave it,and also the reason for it and the outcome,Christ's birth. Mary was no doubt very special in God's eyes and a very righteous person or she wouldn't have been chosen for the mother of Jesus. I don't believe God ever intended for people to pray to her for the Bible says Jesus is the only intercessor between God and man. Mary is not on a level with God,Jesus,or the Holy Ghost as some try to make her. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 10/23/15


/The Angel didn't even called Mary by name, but by title.
"Hail, full of Grace."\-Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15
-But the angel did not say that to her.
---micha9344 on 10/23/15


\\Yes the Bible says people will call Mary blessed,that's nothing spiritual at all,--Darlene_1 on 10/22/15 \\

So, what the Bible says is not spiritual.

Is this what you're saying Darlene?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/23/15


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I am genuinely sad and disgusted at what I have started and the "feeding frenzy" it has become.

I am not innocent in this, but I did think Brendan was genuinely interested in knowing what are the perceived wrongs of the RCC. I quickly fired off my list and thought that would be it. Boy was I ever naive.

I am sure I have no influence in this, but this is a family discussion not a battle between enemies. In a family discussion, no one should be threatened or insulted and everyone should have a voice.

Our common unity of faith must bond us together and not let differences in non-essentials divide us.

I am letting this subject die out without replying further.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/23/15


Yes the Bible says people will call Mary blessed,that's nothing spiritual at all,--Darlene_1 on 10/22/15


I believe it is Spiritual as to point that she carried God in her womb as the Ark of the Covenant.

The Bible quotes Mary saying ALL GENERATIONS will call me Blessed.

The Angel didn't even called Mary by name, but by title.

"Hail, full of Grace."

BTW, Mary is the only one in the Bible addressed by an Angel by title and not name.

No where in the Bible, nor the CCC states we (Catholics) worship Mary.

This is a perceived wrongs, but not by Catholics but by non Catholics judging Catholics.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/15


\\The word You said applies to Mary Douleia means slavery,bondage.\\

No, it doesn't always.

\\ I'm not sure why that applies to Mary. Those came from Strong's Concordance.\\

The lexica at the back of Strong's are NOT the last words in Biblical lexicography.

REAL Biblical scholars will use Liddel and Scott's for Greek and Genesius for Hebrew.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/23/15


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