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Prosecute Church Frauds

Why don't the U.S. Attorney General or State Attorneys charge and prosecute church frauds, when they are very guilty of scamming people out of money?

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 ---Rob on 10/31/15
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What church in Texas?

We have liberal churches and progay churches but they were that because of other reasons not because of anything the Government did.

Correct Strong Ax. You are correct a lot.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/10/15


Steveng:

You wrote: So did Jesus about the true church. Rev. chapter one

I don't recall "denominations" being mentioned in Revelation at all. Which verse, specifically?

Doesn't the NT do the same?

Parrot what? At least it's scripture. Your writings aren't.

IRS. Need I say more? Denominations will compromise biblical doctrine to keep their non-profit status.

No they don't. All they have to do is stay out of politics. Saying "behavior X is wrong" is allowed. Saying "Vote for candidate/party Y because they will outlaw X" is not.

Can you cite specific cases otherwise?
---StrongAxe on 11/10/15


Need I say more? Denominations will compromise biblical doctrine to keep their non-profit status. It's already happening in England, Canada and Texas.
---Steveng on 11/9/15

But who are you to judge these churches?

Seems that I read somewhere that Jesus is the Head of the Church and Jesus is the One who died to save her and Jesus is the one who shepherds the church. And Jesus is doing a great job because the gates of Hell will not prevail against her, no matter what you think.

I also seem to remember reading that we are not to judge other servants of Christ because they neither stand or fall because of us and they do not answer to us.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/10/15


StrongAxe wrote: "You have a real chip on your shoulder about "denominational churches"."

So did Jesus about the true church. Rev. chapter one

StrongAxe wrote: "It is pointless to discuss this subject with you,.."

Then why do you?

StrongAxe wrote: "because you always parrot the same things over and over again,'.

Doesn't the NT do the same?

StrongAxe wrote: "What evidence can you provide to support denominational churches are all owned by the government?"

IRS. Need I say more? Denominations will compromise biblical doctrine to keep their non-profit status. It's already happening in England, Canada and Texas.
---Steveng on 11/9/15


I suggest ya'll watch the John Oliver show he had about the get rich preachers. How what they do is legal.

He showed by starting a church that people could send money to.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/9/15




Samuelbb7:

You said: The Attorney General cannot charge Churches for teaching false doctrine

Right. But they CAN prosecute violations of the law. If a church makes promises it doesn't keep (e.g. guaranteeing financial rewards for donations), that's fraud. If a church preaches insurrection, that's treason. If a church performs multiple marriages, that's polygamy (currently illegal in every jurisdiction in the U.s.). If a church tells members to vote for against specific candidates or issues, that violates their non-profit status, which can enable the IRS to revoke such status.

E.g. If a church says abortion is wrong, that's fine, but if it tells members to bomb abortion clinics or kill abortion doctors, it's illegal.
---StrongAxe on 11/9/15


The Attorney General cannot charge Churches for teaching false doctrine since that would really put the government in charge of churches just like when the RCC executed people for teaching false doctrines.

Nicole. I know you feel that you follow truth. GOD be with you.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/9/15


...but not EVERY church is apostate,....---StrongAxe on 11/5/15


THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH!

Why?

Because Pope Francis has the Keys.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/8/15


Steveng:

You wrote: Every denominational church is aspostate for each has its own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Each is owned by the government.

You have a real chip on your shoulder about "denominational churches". It is pointless to discuss this subject with you, because you always parrot the same things over and over again, and ignore any valid points anyone else makes about it.

And now, especially, your absurd assertion that they are all owned by the government. What evidence can you provide to support this?
---StrongAxe on 11/8/15


It's still amazing how T.D. Jakes, along with others tell out right lies, Colossians 2:8, and so many people will stand up, shout Hallelujah, Amen, Praise The Lord!
---Rob on 11/8/15




StrongAxe wrote: "You believe there ARE forces stronger than Jesus?"

Not stronger than Jesus, but weaker for the christians. Satan is still god of this world and he will deceive all people including the true christians if that was possible. Many warnings of falling away are mentioned.

StrongAxe wrote: "Yes, there is much apostasy, but not EVERY church is apostate,.."

Every denominational church is aspostate for each has its own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Each is owned by the government. What church would a newly born christians belong? Can one become a christians without belonging to a denominational church?
---Steveng on 11/8/15


Nicole_Lacey:

Jesus wrote: The gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Steveng wrote: In fact, it will even destroy true christianity.

I wrote: You believe there ARE forces stronger than Jesus?

You wrote: No, but Jesus doesn't stop you from choosing those other weaker forces.

My point was that Steveng's comment contradicts what Jesus said. Yes, there is much apostasy, but not EVERY church is apostate, which would be necessary for "true Christianity" to be destroyed.
---StrongAxe on 11/5/15


You believe there ARE forces stronger than Jesus?---StrongAxe on 11/5/15

No, but Jesus doesn't stop you from choosing those other weaker forces.


EXCELLENT POINT:

Look what's happening in Europe and Canada. Churches have already compromised God's word.--Steveng on 11/4/15
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/5/15


Steveng:

You wrote: You really do you need to get with the persecution of the church.

I don't understand what you mean by "get with".

Go back and re-read my post.

A mayor subpoening church sermons does not make him a church. If he's a Christian doing so to avoid attending, he's a lazy bum. If he's a government official doing so looking for signs of subversion, being sued over it it has nothing to do with "a true church of God suing another", unless you believe the government is a true church (and I know you don't).

In fact, it will even destroy true christianity.

You believe there ARE forces stronger than Jesus?
---StrongAxe on 11/5/15


StrongAxe wrote: "(i.e. the government will stay out of the church if the church stays out of government, i.e. politics)."

You really do you need to get with the persecution of the church. Being politically correct will destroy your denominational churches. In fact, it will even destroy true christianity. Churches will bend over backwards to keep its non-profit status - even if it goes against God's word. Don't believe it? Look whats happening in Europe and Canada. Churches have already compromised God's word.

StrongAxe wrote: "How is a church suing the mayor "suing another"?"

Go back and re-read my post.
---Steveng on 11/4/15


Rob:

You said: My Sister lost her job, home, car because she gave these people her money, instead of paying her bills.

If you have bills, you basically have a contract to pay a certain amount for services that a utility provides for you. Not paying your bills is breaking that contract. This happens to many people through no fault of their own.

But when one CHOOSES to effectively break such a contract by diverting the money elsewhere (whether it's gambling, drugs, or a church), that's the person's own choice. And if a church teaches that, it's saying "You must break your oath to get God's blessing", which is a lie from the pit of hell.
---StrongAxe on 11/4/15


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..giving these people her money for years, with the promise she would receive blessing in return.--Rob

No offense, but it seems your sister was gambling via Church instead of casinos.

Where in the Bible promises blessings here on earth instead of Heaven if you give money.

How can she lose her Job if that is the source of income she is using to give to the Church?

Lose her home and car I can see, but she wasn't NICE not paying her bills after signing a contact PROMISING TO PAY THEM.

The banks trusted her, but according to you she didn't pay her bills not due to lack of money, but due to CHOOSING to divert the funds to the Church in hoping to gain blessings here on earth.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/3/15


Rob....I expect your sister's financial problems result from more than her giving to a church. You don't just lose all that stuff unless you don't pay your bills. Her decision. Her problem. Not yours. God will definitely judge those who are scamming people.
---KarenD on 11/3/15


Steveng:

No, it doesn't. The government places limitations on what ANY church does, 501(c)3 or not. A Mormon church can't perform polygamous marriages. A Satanist temple can't perform human sacrifice. A temple of Aphrodite can't have public orgies. All 501(c)3 does is add a few more restrictions (i.e. the government will stay out of the church if the church stays out of government, i.e. politics).

The most recent high visible report came from a Houston mayor who subpoenas churches sermons. Now the churches are turning around and suing the mayor. What true church of God sues another?

How is a church suing the mayor "suing another"?
---StrongAxe on 11/1/15


Ok Rob, Now I understand your passion against WOF movement. I can see the lie that your sister has experienced. As far as suing your sister's church you would also have to prove intent to fraud which is very hard. I would continue to show love to her and read through Galatians.
---Scott1 on 11/2/15


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==Why don't those other so called Christian Churches and Ministries do the same.==

Which ones to your knowledge do not?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/1/15


Any "church" having a 501(c)3 tax exempt status is of this world and belongs to the government. The government dictates what the church can and cannot do. At first it was finances, now it is dictating what to teach. Canada and England have already done so and it's beginning here in America. The most recent high visible report came from a Houston mayor who subpoenas churches sermons. Now the churches are turning around and suing the mayor. What true church of God sues another? This is just the beginning and being politically correct will be the demise of denominational churches AND its members/christians.
---Steveng on 11/1/15


Shall I re-post this again for Rob?

They Government is already trying to FORCE the Catholic Church to PAY for birth control pills, and we don't want to pay for them.
PLEASE KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT. ---Nicole_Lacey

Rob, please Goggle this and memorize it for yourself. Stop being selfish.:

"First They Came for the Jews"
By Pastor Niemoller

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/1/15


Nicole, I have been a Board Member of a CHRISTIAN MINISTRY for 27 years. We assist others in their time of need.

Even though we have it 501(c)3 tax exempt status, every year we are required to file taxes, register with the Secretary of State, and make our books available for review. This is the Law.

I have no problem doing this because we are HONEST, have INTEGRITY, and HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE!

Why don't those other so called Christian Churches and Ministries do the same.

Nicole, it seems like you defend them because you give them your approval!
---Rob on 10/31/15


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Good point, Geraldine.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/31/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: She doesn't think she is being wronged.

Precisely. She would have legal standing to sue or bring charges, but he doesn't (unless he thinks her belief in a church is so delusional to have her declared legally incompetent, and himself appointed as guardian).

Besides, I don't want the Attorney General having any say in what is scamming us or isn't.

Why not? There are precise legal definitions of what constitutes fraud. If a church promises something specific (e.g. "If you give us money, within 30 days, God will repay you tenfold"), and doesn't deliver, that constitutes demonstrable fraud. "God will bless you", however is vague, so not verifiable nor falsifiable.
---StrongAxe on 11/1/15


What Fraud?
You have to have a victim first.
Rob, isn't it your sister who keeps giving to these Churches?

She doesn't think she is being wronged.
You do.
That's the problem.

As Andrea (I believe who said it) said, God will take care of them.

Besides, I don't want the Attorney General having any say in what is scamming us or isn't.

Remember if you think the Government gives you rights, then they can take them away as well.

They Government is already trying to FORCE the Catholic Church to PAY for birth control pills, and we don't want to pay for them.

The Government thinks it's the worker's RIGHT to have them even if it goes against our beliefs.

PLEASE KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/31/15


Geraldine, I have a Sister who is a member of, and attends one of those so called Churches.

My Sister herself said it's not a Church but a business.

My Sister has been giving these people her money for years, with the promise she would receive blessing in return.

My Sister lost her job, home, car because she gave these people her money, instead of paying her bills.
---Rob on 10/31/15


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Such a prosecution would require the state or federal government to judge which requests by religious groups are of God or of Satan, and would interfere with our "separation of church and State."
---Geraldine on 10/31/15


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