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Real Text Or Real Interpretation

If the original "Christian" Church was corrupted by 325 a.d. then how did a few men learn the truth and start teaching it in the 16th century? Where did they find the "real" texts that told the truth? Part II

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 11/2/15
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You forget that 3/4ths of the Bible was already being read and studied when the church started. The Apostles taught from the Old Testament. They proved they were correct from the OT and like Jesus constantly quoted it.

The Church should follow the Bible. Not go against it't teachings. When the church goes against the Bible it is no longer teaching the truth.

In 2tim3:16 the Old Testament was the one that timothy had studied.

The New and Old are in agreement. It is men who have tried to get rid of the Old Testament and put tradition in it's place.

The Catechism 2052 to 2082 teaches the church is to obey the Ten Commandments.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/12/15


john9346* the Lord Jesus Christ Alone saves sinners not a church.

But the Church plays a part:

Mt 18:15-7 " Finally, if he will not listen to the Church, treat him as though he were a pagan or a tax collector.

john9346* the Jesus of Sacred Scripture alone is infallible.

Were the Apostles of the Sacred scripture infallible?
---Ruben on 11/12/15


\\Cluny said, "This is not an infallible statement. According to PASTOR AETERNUS, a papal statement must have several carefully described criteria to be infallible. This you quoted has none of them."

Read these statements in the sources I cited.\\

And none of the fulfill the conditions of being infallible.

Dr. Miraville is wrong. Co-redemptrix is not now and never has been defined as a dogma.

If Rome ever does so, it will simply put up one more obstacle to reconciliation with the Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/15


I said, \Rosary was an invention by a saint and later elevated by the popes. And invention not in the Bible. \\

And you Cluny said:
//FWIW, the Rosary is NOT an Orthodox practice//

I never said it was an invention of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Do you also have popes? I didn't think so. And you understood when I said beets. It does not take a college degree to understand what I was saying. You just make something out of nothing just to argue. If you do not like the answers we write about in the RCC why do you answer for them?
I guess you are short of questions for the Eastern Orthodox church. A subject not many talk about.
---Luke on 11/13/15


Cluny said, "This is not an infallible statement. According to PASTOR AETERNUS, a papal statement must have several carefully described criteria to be infallible. This you quoted has none of them."

Read these statements in the sources I cited.

Also, the book Introduction to Mary: The Heart of Marian Doctrine and Devotion: by Dr. Mark Miraville teaches and affirms as dogma.


Cluny said, "Your definition of the Immaculate Conception is close enough."

Of course because I am saying what the ccc states.
---john9346 on 11/12/15




Why would anyone want to follow the eoc or the rcc when they contradict each other on which one gave the world the bible.

see below:



"It is from the Church that the Bible ultimately derives its authority, for it was the Church which originally decided which books form a part of Holy Scripture,"

Ware, Timothy

The Orthodox Church p. 199)


"It was the Catholic Church and no other which selected and listed the inspired books of both the Old Testament and the New Testament...If you can accept the Bible or any part of it as inspired Word of God, you can do so only because the Catholic Church says it is." (The Bible is a Catholic Book, p. 4).
---john on 11/12/15


\\Cluny asked, "And do you think this is an infallible statement, johnmanynumbers?"

Well, read what they state they will answer your question.\\

This is not an infallible statement. According to PASTOR AETERNUS, a papal statement must have several carefully described criteria to be infallible. This you quoted has none of them.

OTOH, ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS does have these criteria. Read it and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Your definition of the Immaculate Conception is close enough. Some people (such as Jack Chick) think it means Mary was born of a virginal conception as Jesus was.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/15


Cluny asks, "john9346, without looking it up, can you tell us what "immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary" means?"

That from the moment of conception mary was sinless.


Cluny asked, "And do you think this is an infallible statement, johnmanynumbers?"

Well, read what they state they will answer your question.

Also Cluny I never claimed to be infallible, but I certainly worship the one who is...

How about you?
---john9346 on 11/11/15


Nicole ask, "Now, please while it is fresh on your mind cite Scripture stating we DON'T need the Church."

Salvation is found in Jesus alone. We do not need a church in order to be save.

See, Acts 4:12, Jn 14:6,5:24, and 3:36, Rom 5:1 and 10:13, and Eph 2:1-9.

Nicole states, "According to you we DON'T need the Bible EITHER esp. since Jesus didn't even take the time to set up the Bible before He returned to His Father.

First, I never said this you have on many blogs.

The bible is the Word of God and Jesus is the Word.

Have you ever read 2 Tim 3:16-17, 2 Pet 1:15-21, Acts 17:10-11, and 1 Cor 4:6??
---john on 11/11/15


\\The word was "beads" professor.\\

Then why didn't you use it to start with, Luke? I can only think that someone puts EXACTLY the words he wishes to use on these blogs. Life is too short for me to assume otherwise and try to guess what the poster really meant.

\\Rosary was an invention by a saint and later elevated by the popes. And invention not in the Bible. \\

FWIW, the Rosary is NOT an Orthodox practice.

Neither are indulgences or the treasure of merits.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/15




Good point luke.

The true church is the called out people of GOD who love GOD with all their heart, mind and strength. Also love their neighbor as themselves.

No physical church is the true people of GOD alone. They are in all denominations. Only GOD knows who they are.

The RCC does not follow the Bible. Jesus did leave the entire old Testament which was the Bible of the early church while the New Testament was being written and approved by the Pre Schismatic church. The RCC did not exist when the Bible was approved. It and many of it's doctrines developed over hundreds of years.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/11/15


Nicole, we do not need the church in order to be save. We need faith in Jesus Christ. And that faith comes from God Himself. What you call the church is the RCC. And that is just another denomination. A big one for sure. But salvation does not come from being a member of the RCC. You can be in China where the RCC is not found, and God by His own grace can save anyone He so choses to save. Many missionaries are spreading the gospel there. We are save by grace through faith.
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved," Eph. 2:4,5.
---Luke on 11/11/15


Cluny, why be sarcastic? The truth sure hurts. The word was "beads" professor. Rosary was an invention by a saint and later elevated by the popes. And invention not in the Bible.
The other invention was in the area of indulgences. Created by Pope Sixtus IV. He was the first pope to decide that they could be applied to the dead. Praying for the dead was one thing, paying for them was another. People were let to believe that the pope, or those who came to their village and sold the popes pardon, guaranteed their dead would go to heaven on the wings of indulgences. The abuse was huge. The pope a sinner himself had power over the dead. Souls in torment could be release by his word. He sure made a lot of money on that lie.
---Luke on 11/11/15


John, I asked you to please cite your statement. You answered back asking what statement and I told you.

For some reason you didn't or forgot.

Now, please while it is fresh on your mind cite Scripture stating we DON'T need the Church as Jesus set it up.

According to you we DON'T need the Bible EITHER esp. since Jesus didn't even take the time to set up the Bible before He returned to His Father. The Church He set up, but not the Bible.

Not one single word on stone. At least Moses had 2 Tablets with God's own hand writing for the Jews.

Also, why did Jesus tell the HEALED Leper to see the Priest if Jesus was enough?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/11/15


\\the Lord Jesus Christ Alone saves sinners not a church.

the Jesus of Sacred Scripture alone is infallible.
---john9346 on 11/10/15
\\

That means you are not, john9346, so I need not ever listen to you.

++They even invented a rosary with the beets representing praying to Mary. ++

What do they do when the beets rot? Throw them away and buy more beets? What if beets are not in season? Will rutabagas do?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/10/15


john9346, without looking it up, can you tell us what "immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary" means?

Bet you can't!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/10/15


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the Lord Jesus Christ Alone saves sinners not a church.

the Jesus of Sacred Scripture alone is infallible.
---john9346 on 11/10/15


John, very good points you are bringing up. There is no quarrel concerning the Holy Bible or the authenticity of the word of God, the Scriptures.
What is the problem in the RCC is what is not in Scripture, all those things you mentioned. The worst being the worship of saints. And why the RCC permits that worship. Of course they deny the worship. Yet the RCC has the statues of saints with a place you can kneel and pray to them. They even invented a rosary with the beets representing praying to Mary.
Another point to remember is their salvation comes by their own works. When the Scriptures clearly teach salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ works. You made some very good points.
---Luke on 11/10/15


Dear Monk Brendan

You have not offended me. You have ably defended your points and understanding with tact and patience. I am glad that you have recognized the preschism church.

I know some of how you feel. I am often attacked for defending my church. Both of us are lied about. Or the use the words of offshoots and those who are extremists as if they were the doctrine of the entire church.

GOD be with you.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/10/15


\\Pope John Paul II (Jan. 31, 1985)

Mary is our Co-redemptrix with Jesus. She gave Jesus his body and suffered with him at the foot of the cross. \\

And do you think this is an infallible statement, johnmanynumbers?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/10/15


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I wish to apologize to all of the people that I have offended or angered while I have attempted to defend the Catholic Church. It seems to frighten most Protestants to hear the Catholic Church spoken about in positive terms. She is big enough that a small group of people on the internet won't bother her at all.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/10/15


Brendan states, "John, all of the various texts of the Bible had been written before 325 a.d. However, the Catholic/Orthodox Church existed since that first Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit fell on the Apostles and disciples."


The church at the Day of Pentecost (Book of Acts) did not teach nor practice the following:

Mary's perpetual virginity, immaculate conception, assumption, co-redemptrix, and mediatrix.

papal primacy and infallibility, the priesthood, purgatory, indulgences, treasury of merit, the eucharist, and the mass.

This church was not the EOC nor the RCC...
---john9346 on 11/9/15


Brendan said, "Note: Co-redemptrix is not part of that list."

According to RC theology, the title co-redemttrix derives from using multiple understandings one being ccc 969, 973, 964, 965, etc.


Note statements:


Crucified spiritually with her crucified Son . Marys role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son.

Pope John Paul II (Jan. 31, 1985)

Mary is our Co-redemptrix with Jesus. She gave Jesus his body and suffered with him at the foot of the cross.

Mother Teresa of Calcutta, (August 14, 1984)
---john9346 on 11/9/15


John said, "the following statement is false because the bible existed long before rcc."

John, all of the various texts of the Bible had been written before 325 a.d. However, the Catholic/Orthodox Church existed since that first Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit fell on the Apostles and disciples.

It was that unified Christian Church that compiled the Bible. That decided what would be IN the Bible and what would stay out of the Bible (the gospel of Judas, the Shepherd of Hermes, etc.)

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/9/15


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Trav said, "So truth is now stones. Interesting analogy.
You come on to this site and initiate questions and then you run like scripture is after you. Which it is."


Okay, Trav, I give up. I am a foul sinner plunged in the dirty puddle of my sins.

However, I only have to worry about Christ, not about you (unless you care to stand before Him and point out my sins--but that is someone else's job, if I'm not mistaken!)

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/9/15


John of the numbers said, "Mediatrix and co-redemptrix ccc 969"

What the CCC section 969 actually says is: 969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation ...Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

Note: Co-redemptrix is not part of that list.


the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/9/15


Brendan ask, "Where did they find the "real" texts that told the truth?

To answer your question, the church was corrupted not the bible.

Seems you are combining the two.


the following statement is false because the bible existed long before rcc


"It was the Catholic Church and no other which selected and listed the inspired books of both the Old Testament and the New Testament...If you can accept the Bible or any part of it as inspired Word of God, you can do so only because the Catholic Church says it is." (The Bible is a Catholic Book, p. 4).
---john on 11/9/15


Monk Brendan

I posted some of my points 11/6/15. Also I was not the one with the rant about worshiping the saints and Mary.

True Cluny it has been a long time since I last read Luther's 95 Thesis. So my memory is not perfect. He got harsher after the Pope tried to have him murdered.

Some RCC offshoots do teach the charge about Mary but not the main church. You cannot accuse the main church with what offshoots do.

The RCC has that Mary receives a lessor adulation then GOD and the saints a lessor then her.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/9/15


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Brendan asks, "Please show me in one Roman Catholic source that says we should worship Mary."

word for it, we do not worship Mary."

"IT is impossible for clients of Mary to be damned, if they faithfully honor her and commend themselves to her."

"We are speaking of those clients of Mary who sincerely determine to do better and are faithful in honoring her and recommending themselves to her. I say it is morally impossible for such people to be lost."

THE GLORIES of MARY ch 8 by Alphonsus De Liguori


Brendan states, "As far as co-redemtrix, that rumor has been running around since Luther started it."


Mediatrix and co-redemptrix ccc 969
---john9346 on 11/9/15


Catholics DO worship Mary.---Steveng on 11/8/15

HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!

CITE IT FROM THE CCC!

Or shall I claim you kill every 5th child because you only believe in having 4 children?.


That's how offensive you sound.

Remember, Jesus warns everyone of explaining every single word that comes out of our mouth.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/8/15


Steven G said, "Catholics DO worship Mary. They accept her as co-redemptrix, mediatrix and advocate... They have statues of her and people rub her feet to answer their prayers."

Please show me in one Roman Catholic source that says we should worship Mary. Until someone can do that, then take my word for it, we do not worship Mary. If people touch statues of Mary and say a prayer, it is IN SPITE of the teaching of the Catholic Church. As far as co-redemtrix, that rumor has been running around since Luther started it.

Doesn't your non-denominational worldly denominational church tell you to not spread lies?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/8/15


Monk_Brendan wrote: "We have never worshiped Mary or the Saints."

Catholics DO worship Mary. They accept her as co-redemptrix, mediatrix and advocate. They pray to her (the rosery). They repeat the same prayers to her. Even the pope seeks to communicate with her, a "dead" person. They have built (and never says it wrong) temples and altars to her. They have statues of her and people rub her feet to answer their prayers.

Monk_Brendan wrote: ".., then why do they read portions of the Scriptures at every service?

They only read what they want you to hear. Even Satan quotes scripture.
---Steveng on 11/8/15


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Monk, you said:
"Read the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matt 25:31-46. Note how Jesus rewards based on what they have done, not on who they loved, or did not love."
Monk, the ones who will be reward for their work are those who are save. Those on the right hand not those on the left.



You said, "I firmly believe that you have to ask Jesus into your heart. And I have, no matter what some people on these blogs must think."
I believe that many who can speak, and have faith, will ask Jesus into their hearts. Asking Jesus into your heart does not save someone, it is by grace through faith that we are saved.
---Luke on 11/8/15


Samuel BB said,"2. That works help save a person."

Read the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matt 25:31-46. Note how Jesus rewards based on what they have done, not on who they loved, or did not love.

I firmly believe that you have to ask Jesus into your heart. And I have, no matter what some people on these blogs must think.

But also recognize Matt7:20-22 Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/7/15


BTW, Samuel, you did not actually answer my question. You went off on an anti-Catholic rant about Catholics worshiping Mary, and so on. Stick to the real answers. When and where did the Catholic Church corrupt any of the doctrines that I brought up?

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/7/15


Samuel, did you ever read Luther's 95 theses?

One of them says that "Apostolic pardons [indulgences] are NOT to be lightly despised."

Did you know that?

The Roman Catholic Church never taught that the Pope is God's sole representative on earth, nor does papal infallibility mean the pope is incapable of sin.

But truth means nothing when it's time to play BTC, I've noticed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/7/15


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EGW said this about the General Conference of the SDA Church:

"But when the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has upon the earth, is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be maintained, but be surrendered."

Have all the members of the SDA GC attained the sinless perfection that you demand of the Pope, Samuel?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/7/15


Sorry Monk Brendan you must have missed when I posted them before.

1. That a sinful man who does not follow GOD can be the sole representative of GOD on earth.

2. That works help save a person.

3. That praying to the dead and bowing before statues of the dead is an acceptable form of worship.

3. That traditions is above scripture.

4. That the church is to use force, even unto death, to make people follow it's doctrines.

Some of the doctrines of the Middle Ages that were part of the Apostasy of that day are no longer practiced. But you can read them in Luther's 95 thesis.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/6/15


Samuel BB said,"Now in the middle ages I can say the Roman Catholic church was totally corrupted."

I am still waiting for you to answer which doctrines were corrupted, Samuel. Or actually prove that we have corrupted any of those doctrines.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/6/15


Okay, Trav, I give up.
...please stop throwing stones at me.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/6/15

So truth is now stones. Interesting analogy.
You come on to this site and initiate questions and then you run like scripture is after you. Which it is.

There was a lot more peace before you came here bringing your silly questions with no scripture intent. I really felt like you were sent. Not for us obviously...but for some reason that is slowly revealing itself.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
---Trav on 11/6/15


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Monk, without having to smear the RCC in every blog, I will only answer you concerning the interpretation of passages in Scripture. Everything they do outside of Scripture in the RCC is well documented. And none of it is Scriptural. It is all lies and deceit.
Concerning Arius, he was bringing a new understanding or teaching concerning the Trinity. I will leave it at that.
Two major things I am against the RCC. First is the prayers to saints. Which means prayers to idols. The one thing Israel always went back to. Second, Salvation by works of the law. For salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Not by baptism, not by eating Christ flesh, (which is impossible) and not by studying and doing the catichisms.
---Luke on 11/6/15


Trav said, "You pray to Mary and the saints. You put priests, popes before GOD. Your temple curtain was never rent for common rc'ers.
You'd rather your blind leaders misinterpret scripture for you rather than search the witnesses for yourself. But, hey...we've just about stopped trying to get you out of what you're overcome by... rather warn "the" sheep to beware of your wide rut/pit without end."


Okay, Trav, I give up. I am a foul sinner plunged in the dirty puddle of my sins.

However, I only have to worry about Christ, not about you (unless you care to stand before Him and point out my sins.)

In the meantime, please stop throwing stones at me.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/6/15


\\I was talking about in the past\\

It was that way in the past, too.

FWIW, the first step in Orthodox missions is to translate the Scriptures and liturgical books into the local languages.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/6/15


Luke said, "Monk, you must not be aware of the history of the Church. Which is something you should catch up on.

I was talking about in the past. Of course it is different now that most have a Bible."


I know quite a bit of Church History. More, I would guess than you. Without looking it up, can you tell me what Arius was teaching that made him a heretic, and nearly split the Church?

As far as the readings in Church, some of them are quite long, they have always been there, from the time that the Apostles were alive. I even remember going to Church as a little kid. The readings were in Latin, but they were also read in English.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/6/15


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We have never worshiped Mary or the Saints.
We believe in the Resurrection of the dead, and life in the world to come.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/4/15

You pray to Mary and the saints. You put priests, popes before GOD. Your temple curtain was never rent for common rc'ers.
You'd rather your blind leaders misinterpret scripture for you rather than search the witnesses for yourself. But, hey...we've just about stopped trying to get you out of what you're overcome by...but, rather warn "the" sheep to beware of your wide rut/pit without end.

Note: You misspelled "worshipped", and the moderator didn't grind your nose in it. But, then it never is an issue except for two of you guys)
---Trav on 11/6/15


Monk, you must not be aware of the history of the Church. Which is something you should catch up on.
You said:
"If the Roman Church does not want people to read the Bible, then why do they read portions of the Scriptures at every service? Not just Mass, but Matins, Lauds, Vespers, Compline and all the other little hours in between?"


I was talking about in the past. Of course it is different now that most have a Bible. The RCC does read a very small part at mass.
Once the Bible was available to everyone, and it cause the lives of many for everyone to have a Bible, then the light came on to man. People begin to see. The Truth finally came out.
---Luke on 11/6/15


The Queen had trouble with those Catholics who tried to overthrow her and murder her.

The Catholic Queen Mary is one you should study a little about also.

But we are not just talking about a certain period in English History. I am speaking of all of Europe during the middle ages.

Tell me about the Saint Bartholomew massacre? How about the crusades against the Cathars, Huguenots and the Albigensians?

Tell me about John Wycliff? Or how about Luther translating the Bible into English.

Yes protestant churches often had blood on their hands. I don't deny that.

Have you read Foxe's book of Martyrs?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/6/15


Samuel BB said, "The RCC had been burning Colloquial word Bibles before and after then. As well as trying to murder the other publishers of local language Bible's."

Actually, it was The Anglican Bishop of London, Cuthbert Tunstall, who was set on destroying copies of the English New Testament. So, Anglican is Protestant, not RC.

Anyway, Elizabeth I had been repressing Catholicism for all of her reign. One of her first actions as queen was the establishment of an English Protestant church, of which she became the Supreme Governor.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/5/15


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Luke said, "Scripture has always been around even if the RCC did not want anyone to read it. They knew once that happen, many would find out the lies that had been perpetrated."

If the Roman Church does not want people to read the Bible, then why do they read portions of the Scriptures at every service? Not just Mass, but Matins, Lauds, Vespers, Compline and all the other little hours in between?

And as for lies, which ones do you know of or have been done to you (you, personally, not something that you've heard, or been told--most of those can be put down to urban myths and/or the savagery of Popephobia)

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/5/15


When I found out what I had been taught in the Baptist church was wrong, I left it, got saved, and became Orthodox.
---Cluny on 11/5/15

You're close then! Just one more rut to climb out of to be free. But, your newest rut/ditch/pit/grave is an ancient deeper one. You say its warm and comfortable and all you desire. But then slave of one, slave of another has nothing to compare against.
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood.
Psa 7:15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.
---Trav on 11/5/15


The Roman Catholic Douay/Rheims Bible was published in a limited addition in France in 1582 consisting of the New Testament only.

The rest with all it's footnotes and commentary was published in 1609.

The RCC had been burning Colloquial word Bibles before and after then. As well as trying to murder the other publishers of local language Bible's.

It is harder to try to translate and publish Bible's when people are trying to kill you.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/5/15


\\Once the people found out that what they had been teaching was wrong, many within did leave the RCC.\\

When I found out what I had been taught in the Baptist church was wrong, I left it, got saved, and became Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/5/15


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\\Monk, I apologize, I was speaking specifically of the Catholic church's attempt to prevent the translation of scriptures during the 1600's.

It is widely stated in history that the Catholic church has tried to prevent the common people from having access to the scriptures, believing that only the church had the understanding to interpret the meaning of scripture.\\

Then why does the Roman Catholic Douay/Rheims predate the KJV by a couple of decades, which puts it in the 16th century?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/5/15


Brendan said, "The Catholic Church has always taught that Jesus was fully divine and fully human at the same time."

It is important to note the church was not corrupted in AD 325,furthermore, the church of AD 325 was not the RC.

Trey, the work you cited "The Decian Persection." was right by Cyprian and has been taken out of context.

RC's do pervert Cyprian's Actions, but he was right we should always be merciful to anyone as long as they repent none of us are perfect.
---john9346 on 11/5/15


Monk, as to your question, the Christian Church is the body of true believers. That body has never being corrupt. As to the Assembly of church members, there has always been many within that are not Christians. Yet so, God has always kept a remnant. Scripture has always been around even if the RCC did not want anyone to read it. They knew once that happen, many would find out the lies that had been perpetrated. Once the people found out that what they had been teaching was wrong, many within did leave the RCC. What they worried about came true. When the combination of churches got together, many new people came into the Catholic (united) church and begin to corrupt the church.
---Luke on 11/5/15


Samuel BB said, "Now in the middle ages I can say the Roman Catholic church was totally corrupted."

How? What doctrine was corrupted?

The Holy Trinity?

The virgin birth of Jesus?

His life giving Resurrection?

How about His Ascension into heaven?

The descent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost?

The Catholic Church has always taught that Jesus was fully divine and fully human at the same time.

We have never worshiped Mary or the Saints.

We believe in the Resurrection of the dead, and life in the world to come.

We believe in a final judgement, where each will be judged according to his deeds (Matt 25:31-46).

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/4/15


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Monk, I apologize, I was speaking specifically of the Catholic church's attempt to prevent the translation of scriptures during the 1600's.

It is widely stated in history that the Catholic church has tried to prevent the common people from having access to the scriptures, believing that only the church had the understanding to interpret the meaning of scripture.
---trey on 11/4/15


The Church was becoming corrupt long before the First Ecumenical Council.


But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:14-16 KJV
---john1944 on 11/4/15


Monk,

You should do some research on "The Decian Persection (A.D. 250). This was the birth of the epoch of Latin Christianity, Cyprian its true parent". This work is by H.H. Milman the learned author. He details how the Catholic church began from the corrupted tyrannical practices of a few Bishops.
---trey on 11/4/15


Brendan asks, "If the original "Christian" Church was corrupted by 325 a.d. then how did a few men learn the truth and start teaching it in the 16th century? Where did they find the "real" texts that told the truth? Part II."

The church of AD 325 was not corrupt.

I am not sure of how you are reaching these conclusions??
---john9346 on 11/4/15


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\\First the church in 325 had some problems. But I do not know it was totally corrupted. \\

Name the problems.

\\Now in the middle ages I can say the Roman Catholic church was totally corrupted.\\

Despite such lights as Francis and Claire of Assisi, Dominic, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Becket, Leo I, Gregory I and others?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/15


First the church in 325 had some problems. But I do not know it was totally corrupted.

Now in the middle ages I can say the Roman Catholic church was totally corrupted.

Mostly it is the antitrinitarians who speak of the total corruption. The Great Schism didn't happen until 1054.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/4/15


Trey said, "Part of the problem lies with the Catholic church's attempt to hide the scriptures from God's people through the use of speaking in Latin and their attempt to block the translating of scripture into the KJV."

Trey, what language did the Italians speak in 500 a.d.? How about those people living in what is now France, or England? Hint:ENGLISH DID NOT EXIST!

The NT was written in Greek, as that was the most commonly spoken tongue in the Eastern Roman Empire. Jerome translated that to Latin (and a low, vulgar Latin at that) so that most of the people in the Roman empire could read it and understand.

There was no thought of "hiding" anything.

the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/4/15


trey, there were other languages besides Latin used in the Roman rite.

As a middle eastern Jew, Jesus never attended a vernacular synagogue or Temple service.

The vernaculars of Europe simply were not developed enough to translate scriptures into.

The KJV was translated when Catholicism was illegal in England, but the RC Douay-Rheims preceded it by a decade or two.

The Vulgate was based on the TR. The Alexandrinian texts were not discovered until the 19th century.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/15


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Monk,

Part of the problem lies with the Catholic church's attempt to hide the scriptures from God's people through the use of speaking in Latin and their attempt to block the translating of scripture into the KJV.

Another part of the problem lies with the inaccurate Alexandrian Codices and the Catholic's claim that it is the correct text and that Textus Receptus which was translated into the KJV was altered. A little research into this claim will lead one to understanding that the Alexandrian Codices was transcribed by the Gnostics.
---trey on 11/3/15


The knowledge of the wise will increase like a flood, and his counsel will continue like a fountain of life.

Sirach 21:16
---john1944 on 11/3/15


Hi, Monk Brendan (c: I do not think leaders in the apostolic . . . obedient . . . succession ever were corrupted. I think God has always succeeded in having His real, approved leaders, but they possibly were not recognized by religious groups who had political power and public control. Such obedient ones were not necessarily Catholic or Protestant.

Their leaders met the standards like you might have read in the First Epistle of Clement, which Catholics claim was written by a pope . . . though it says "we" and "us" and not "I" and any name. These standards are a match with 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

God has always succeeded with His people, though big-namers might not acknowledge this.
---Bill_and_Jan on 11/3/15


Oddly, only the Orthodox and the RCC reads chapters of the Bible every Sunday to make sure EVERYONE gets to know the Bible.

If you can't read you are at the mercy of the Pastors on what he wants to talk about.
If he doesn't like a Passage in the Gospel of John, or doesn't know how to explain it, he just doesn't read it.

Most people in the world CAN NOT READ.
I guess they need to go to the RCC or Orthodox if they wish to know what's in the Whole Bible.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/3/15


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I don't know exactly where or how they found it, but they were LED to it by God.
---Geraldine on 11/2/15

Geradine your simple answer is correct. What we see now are a living example of the parables of Christ and prophets. Luk_8:10 ...that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
eo & rc early on held the truth in their hands without understanding it, they still don't (see or hear) to understand it. Reshaping it to what we see today. An aberration of their understanding and "dark ages" superstitions. Unrecognizable and unsupportable by scripture but, for the warnings against.
---Trav on 11/3/15


Mark Eaton quoted, "I vehemently dissent from those who would not have private persons read the Holy Scriptures...that they can only be understood by a few theologians..."

Mark, I have no problem with a variety of translations, as long as they are from the Textus Receptus.

What the Catholic Church was doing BEFORE the invention of the printing press was having Bibles written in exquisite penmanship bound in precious metal and leather covers. To be able to afford one of these meant that you were very rich, or part of the Church. Usually a prince would commission one of these volumes, and bestow it on a church or a bishop. Monks took years to write them.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/3/15


IF (suppose) smh :)

---Leon on 11/3/15


then how did a few men learn the truth and start teaching it in the 16th century? Where did they find the "real" texts that told the truth?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/2/15

I personally like this quote, from the man who likely started it all, Erasmus of Rotterdam, in the preface of his Greek New Testament, First Edition:

"I vehemently dissent from those who would not have private persons read the Holy Scriptures nor have them translated into the vulgar tongues, as though either Christ taught such difficult doctrines that they can only be understood by a few theologians, or the safety of the Christian religion lay in ignorance of it"
---Mark_Eaton on 11/3/15


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But if I speak the truth, you do not believe me.

John 8:45
---john1944 on 11/3/15


\\I don't know exactly where or how they found it, but they were LED to it by God.\\

Where did you get that idea?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/15


Geraldine said, " I don't know exactly where or how they found it, but they were LED to it by God."

And where were they led?

The NT was originally written in Greek, and translated to Latin. Both translations had passed through the hands of countless monks of the RCC and EOC, which, according to most people on these blogs had been totally corrupted by the Pope/cardinals, bishops, etc. Now, where did Luther find true, non-corrupt texts.

Even if you take the date of the Schism (1054 AD) as the beginning of corruption, that is still almost 600 years since the "true" texts were found. So, where did he find the true texts?


Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/3/15


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