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What Is The Church

What is your understanding of what the Church is? Do you believe the Church is a building where people gather on Sunday, Saturday, or another day of week?

Do you believe the Church is made up of those people who place their faith, hope, and trust in Christ, and Christ alone, for their SALVATION?

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 ---Rob on 11/4/15
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Nicole, I'm sure Mary too wore a vail over her head, but that doesn't make Mary the Vail. Just because Jesus sat on Mary's lap does not make Mary the Mercy Seat spoken of IN SCRIPTURE defined in the OT, described to detail when God gave Moses the blue prints to build all of it AFTER THE PATTERN OF THINGS IN HEAVEN, just as scripture states. I sure Mary breast fed too, so do you think that means SHE is the milk of the word. Where will this nonsense end?

You just can't make things up Nicole, because it feeds some childish fantasy about Mary. If the Mercy seat was about Mary, then the pattern would have been to build it with a child sitting on a mother lap. It wasn't, and that ENDS this childish fantasy you keep pushing off on others.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/15


Nicole: That's why we Protestants believe in the Bible as our ONLY rule of faith. Because all these silly man-made doctrines lead down the most ridiculous paths.



---jerry6593 on 12/1/15


Jed, Kathr and Samuel, you all are over thinking my comment and can't make right reason.

As a child Jesus sat on Mary's lab. Jesus is Mercy.
Mary is the mercy seat.

Remember when Jesus speaks about Moses's Seat and those sitting on the them now. Telling everyone to do what they say, but don't follow their actions.

The seat only states authority or privilege.

Also remember Jesus had to tell them that the sacrificed meat is worth more than the altar.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/15



Can you tell us what sins she committed? Be specific, please.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 11/30/15


Please don't be a child, Cluny. You should know that the Bible doesn't discuss the sins of many people mentioned in the scriptures. In fact, few people's specific sins are actually named in the scriptures. That doesn't mean all those other people were without sin, just that their sins weren't noteworthy. Can you tell me using scriptures (not your catholic traditions rubbish, but actual scripture) where it actually says that Mary was sinless unlike the rest of us? Please just give the specific verse.
---Jed on 11/30/15


\\And Mary was neither God nor sinless.
---Jed on 11/30/15
\\

No one said she is God.

Can you tell us what sins she committed? Be specific, please.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/15




Why would a mere mortal sinner be called the mercy seat? Only a sinless God and man could provide redemption for sinners and mediate to the father for our sins. And Mary was neither God nor sinless.
---Jed on 11/30/15


Great Point Kathyr.

It would be great if people spent more time studying the Old Testament Tabernacle.

There are good books by authors from many denominations on the Sanctuary.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/30/15


What is the Church? Jesus Christ is the Church.

Nicole, in the OT , everything in the Tabernacle, the Mercy Seat, Holy of Holies, the Veil, the Gates, Arron's Rod, etc, etc, etc, pointed to Jesus Christ. It was a picture of things in Heaven. Mary did not pre-exist then nor was she incarnate. So she could not possibly be the mercy seat. Even the Mercy seat had to be sprinkled in blood. Do you know why? If you did, you would not keep insisting Mary is the Mercy seat.
---kathr4453 on 11/30/15


cluny:


Num 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty.

Then you said:

"If God does not clear the guilty, how can the ungodly possibly be justified and have his sins removed?"

That's arguing with scripture.



---jerry6593 on 11/30/15


Nicole: "Words means as they are written, not as you wish."

True. You should learn that noun words (mercy) and adjective words (merciful) are not the same thing.


"Mary is called 'Seat of Mercy' because She is the 'Seat' and Jesus is the 'Merciful One'."

I don't subscribe to such Catholic doctrine. The mercy seat in scripture is found in the Most Holy Place of the Sanctuary. It is God's throne, not a dead woman's body.


---jerry6593 on 11/30/15




Nicole: Mary is dead....

//Read your Bible. Matthew 22:32
If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were born before Mary are still living, then Mary isn't dead. Unless you are saying Jesus DOESN'T know what HE is talking about?//

"Jesus is Mercy as you wrote."
I'm pretty sure I didn't write that.

//So are you saying Jesus isn't Mercy?///

Jesus is "merciful" - but He isn't "Mercy". He is also just, as:---jerry6593 11/27/15

Words means as they are written, not as you wish.

Mary is called 'Seat of Mercy' because She is the 'Seat' and Jesus is the 'Merciful One'.

Calling someone Pretty or saying she is Pretty is saying the same thing.

Mercy or Merciful is the same.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/15


How curious.

I quote the Bible (KJV, to be precise), and jerry says I'm arguing with the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/15


cluny: Two points: First, you are arguing with the Bible, which shows lack of understanding. Second, you are forgetting the role of repentance in forgiveness.



---jerry6593 on 11/28/15


John, are you there? Are you avoiding answering my questions?
---Luke on 11/28/15


\\and by no means clearing the guilty.

---jerry6593 on 11/27/15
\\

How about these verses, jerry?

Psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

If God does not clear the guilty, how can the ungodly possibly be justified and have his sins removed?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/27/15


Nicole:

Mary is dead. She "knows not anything, and also her love, etc. ... is now perished, neither has she any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." - Ecc 9:5,6

"Jesus is Mercy as you wrote."

I'm pretty sure I didn't write that. Jesus is "merciful" - but He isn't "Mercy". He is also just, as:

Num 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty.



---jerry6593 on 11/27/15


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Jerry, did you know Mary is known as 'Seat of Mercy' and 'Seat of Wisdom'?

Because Jesus sat on her lap.

Jesus is Mercy as you wrote.

Mercy is God highest attribute.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/15


John, you did not answer any of my questions. Is it that you do not believe that we are saved by grace through faith? We are told that there is only one way into heaven, and that is through faith in Jesus Christ works on the cross and His resurrection. Don't you believe that the sinner has to have faith? What is your stand? Do you believe in Universal salvation? Is that what you are claiming?
---Luke on 11/25/15


Jerry. Amen. Thank God so much for His mercy! The thought of His mercy seat and the ten commandments is something I had never thought of. Thank you for sharing that.
---Ruthanna on 11/24/15


Luke:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians 15:22, 26, 28 KJV
---john1944 on 11/24/15


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For information's sake,Ephesians 2:8 we are saved by Grace by/through Faith. That faith gives us the way we believe in Jesus as the son of God,who died ,was buried ,and rose again,and sits on the right hand of God alive for ever more. We are only covered by Grace as we walk in newness of life in the Spirit and die to the works of the flesh buried with Christ through Baptism and die to the old man 's worldly way. Grace by itself doesn't save anyone. We are only under Grace as we live in the Spirit for God. Sinners are not under Grace they are under God's condemnation.God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 11/24/15


Ruthanna, thanks for sharing Romans 1:20.

For some reason it seems people avoid what is written in Romans Chapter One.

This includes those who claim to be Christian!
---Rob on 11/24/15


John, here is what you said:
"Luke, I can't love a god like yours, who will destroy most of what he supposedly created in his own image, because they are ignorant. That sort of god is no better than Stalin."

John, why don't you give me your take on who will be saved and who will not? Tell me about those who are ignorant and never come to Christ? What happens to them? And how about all those who are in His likeness, and yet have spit in His face? Do they also make it to haven? And if you believe God will have mercy on them because they were created in His image, then none will be lost with the god you believe in. Give me your answers, so I know on whom you believe in.
---Luke on 11/24/15


\\So those who follow GOD without the knowledge will still be saved by Grace. \\

I believe that, too.

Through Jeremiah, God said, "If with all your heart you truly seek Me, you shall surely find Me."

Of course, the key words are "ALL YOUR HEART."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/24/15


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Ruthanna, Jerry, Cluny and micha it seems that we are in agreement on this point. Our Hope is in Christ alone and we follow a just and loving GOD.

In Romans 2 Pauls speaks of those who follow GOD but in ignorance. That tells me His grace saves even if we don't know everything.

Many a missionary was saved and helped by people who didn't know about Jesus. But because they loved GOD. They helped and came to the truth.

To borrow a Jewish phrase. Righteous Gentiles. So those who follow GOD without the knowledge will still be saved by Grace.
agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/24/15


It seems that we have already had Christ's mercy when He shed His blood for our sins,now we must walk in his footsteps,follow His example and live a holy life that we may have His fellowship and close relationship plus an eternal home with Him. There was a popular saying many years ago that would be good to ask ourselves before we do something we're not quite sure about,it is "What Would Jesus Do?" We must check our selves and be sure our behavior is in line with the Word. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 11/24/15


\\For me, His mercy is my only hope.


---jerry6593 on 11/24/15
\\

You and me both.

And the rest of us.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/24/15


/"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" 1 Cor. 1:18.\-Luke on 11/23/15
/I can't love a god like yours\-john1944 on 11/23/15
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,
...and so on...
---micha9344 on 11/24/15


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Ruthanna: I think that your take on God's plans for the disposition of eternal justice are right on. No one will suffer final destruction in the lake of fire unless he chooses it by disobedience.

Interestingly, God's throne is called the mercy seat, and below the seat are the tables of the Ten Commandments (Law). So God's government is the mixture of justice and mercy. For me, His mercy is my only hope.


---jerry6593 on 11/24/15


God knows and will judge justly ... Not by human reasoning. He is far beyond our comprehension yet He loves us with an everlasting love.

I don't know how it works. God does, and He will only do what's right.

Romans 1:20 does say, "For the invisible things of Him (God) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse."

Yet, we know from Scripture, that because He is God, He will never let anyone go to eternal death unjustly. He loves all people and doesn't want anyone to perish even more than any of us could so we know He'll do what's right.
---Ruthanna on 11/23/15


john1944 wrote: "what happens to people who die ignorant of Christ?"

There are two resurrections. The first is at the return of Jesus where the dead in Christ shall rise and the living shall be caught up with the dead. The second is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ when all the other dead are raised and judge from the Book of Life according to their works - some to everlasing life, some to everlasting death.
---Steveng on 11/23/15


Luke, I can't love a god like yours, who will destroy most of what he supposedly created in his own image, because they are ignorant. That sort of god is no better than Stalin.
---john1944 on 11/23/15


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...what happens to people who die ignorant of Christ?
---john1944 on 11/23/15

Why do you speculate? Does Christ, Prophets,the Apostles?

Mat_13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Eze_39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel, I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
Joe 2:27 ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, that I am the LORD your God, and none else: my people shall never be ashamed.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 11/23/15


Denominational churches don't even teach the true meaning of the word "gospel." Will Jesus recognize the church upon his return?
---Steveng on 11/19/15


He will recognize the "Sheep".
The "Hirelings" you speak of don't care about truth or gospel. They are Hirelings not sheep or shepherds.
Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jer_23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 11/23/15


John, I gave you my answer, something every Christian should know. That there is only one way into the kingdom of God. Through Christ Jesus. He is the only way. So anyone who is not born of God is going to the lake of fire. You have to remember that the lost are all blind, cannot see, they are all without hearing, their hearts are at enmity against God. I mean everyone. Even those who hear the gospel. The gospel is foolishness to them. To them there is no God. They have no faith. All of them. They are heading to the lake of fire unless God does a miracle in their lives. Remember:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" 1 Cor. 1:18.
---Luke on 11/23/15


Luke, what happens to people who die ignorant of Christ?
---john1944 on 11/23/15


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John, if people do not follow the commands of Jesus Christ, then they are following someone else period. What happens to them? The penalty is the lake of fire.

Michael e, how long we follow Him? We follow Him always. In fact He already lives in all believers born of the Spirit.
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ,.." Eph. 2:4.
---Luke on 11/23/15


Michael_e, another great backup verse is Colossians 3:1-4.

John, when reading the whole chapter of Philippians 3, put together with Colossians 3:1-4, I think you will find the answer to you question at the very end of Philippians 3. That those who mind earthly things are enemies of the cross. You can't have two masters. We know where our Lord is...seated in Heavenly places and we are seated with Him in heavenly places. THIS is what we are to OBEY. AND the ONLY way to get there is by faith..OVERCOMERS. The MYSTERY, Christ IN YOU....THE HOPE OF GLORY. This is who the CHURCH IS, And what the Church has been CALLED OUT FOR.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/15


What happens to people who don't follow Christ?
---john1944 on 11/22/15


//Here is your answer of what it is to FOLLOW CHRIST. We follow Him in Death and resurrection life.//
You are correct, we do follow the ascended Christ as Paul states in Rom. 15:8 1 Cor 15:1-4
---michael_e on 11/21/15


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Here is your answer of what it is to FOLLOW CHRIST. We follow Him in Death and resurrection life.

Philippians 3:9-12

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death,

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/15


Luke, how far do we we follow His example?
He sold all he had and taught others also (Matt 19:21)
He drove men out of the temple with cords (John 2:15)
Baptized without sin (Matt 3:14-15)
Died without sin (Luke 12:50)
He resurrected men from the dead (John 11:43)
He walked on water (John 6:19)
He forgave men their sins (Mark 2:7)
//He didn't say "follow me" not Christ.// you are right.
Acts 9 The ascended Christ called Paul
Paul, called by the ascended Christ, instructs us to follow him as he is of Christ.(1 Cor 11:1,1 Cor 4:16 Phil 3:17)1 Tim 1:16 Our pattern
---michael_e on 11/20/15


Jerry, yours is a better explanation.
---john1944 on 11/20/15


You said:
"How do we follow Jesus when he is seated in heavenly places (Eph 1:20)."

Michael, we follow His example. Remember He lives in us in Spirit even though He is seated at the right hand of God.

You said: "Paul, called by the ascended Christ, instructs us to follow him as he is of Christ.(1 Cor 11:1)"
That isn't in the passage.

"Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you." Speaking of remembering him and what he did for Christ, bringing the gospel, and the traditions past down to him, and from him to them. And for them to remember him in all things, He didn't say "follow me" not Christ.
---Luke on 11/20/15


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I believe Scripture teaches that all those who believe in Jesus for salvation are the Church, no matter what day we choose to worship on.
And in reply to john1944, on the cross Jesus said,"It is finished." God also says that "the wages of sin is death." Jesus paid the penalty for our sins in full but if we reject His payment then we have to pay for it ourselves ... eternal death ... it's up to us which we prefer.
---Ruthanna on 11/19/15


Nicole: "The Church is the RCC."

No, it isn't. While RCC Christians may be members of Christ's Church, according to the Bible, the Church is the people - the flock of the Good Shepherd, Jesus. Thus, members of many denominations (or even the unaffiliated) may be members of the flock. The RCC Papacy, on the other hand, has in the past been the enemy of Christ's true flock.



john1944: The Bible says that the penalty for sin is death - not eternal torture.



---jerry6593 on 11/20/15


John, actually Jesus did pay the full penalty. People go to hell for rejecting the gift of salvation. Jesus died once and for all. And He rose from the dead, never to die again. Our eternal life is totally connected to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To limit the atonement isn't even the issue. The only limited atonement was bulls and goats. It only covered sin. Today sin is washed away IN CHRIST, when you put your faith in His death and resurrection. Because Jesus death was ONCE AND FOR ALL, anyone who comes to The Father, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, will be forgiven.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/15


If the penalty for sin is eternity in hell, Christ didn't pay the full penalty.
---john1944 on 11/19/15


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The called out simply means those called out of this world. Israel as a nation was not called out of this world. We have been translated out of this world into the Kingdom of His dear Son. Not everyone answers this calling out. Those In Christ, those who are crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him, are seated with Him in HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS are those ALONE, who are no longer part of this present evil world. The CHURCH are those who are called out who make up the body of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 11/19/15


The word "church" is defined in today's overly educated world a lot differently than in Jesus' time. The word "church" ARE the christians, period, not a denomination or a building like most so-called christians call it. Just by its use you can tell: "I didn't see you in church today," "Our church has a great pastor," "Our church just installed a new entertainment center," "Our church has a great Christmas program," etc.

The true church of God is not made by man's hands. Denominational churches have watered down the Words of God. Denominational churches don't even teach the true meaning of the word "gospel." Will Jesus recognize the church upon his return?
---Steveng on 11/19/15


Christ paid for sins, and gave us his righteousness Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us
God does not consider righteous works any longer even if they are done in zeal, obedience to the law, sincerity, and love toward God. He accepts only Christ, and those in him. (Rom 10:4)
This is why Paul says he wants to be found in Christ not having his own righteousness. He wanted the righteousness that could only come through the faith of Christ.(Phil 3:9)
---michael_e on 11/19/15


The Church is the RCC.

Divine and Human

All flows to Her from Her Bridegroom Jesus Christ, and from Her to every human Being for Salvation.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/19/15


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//We believers are following Jesus Christ.//
Following him where and how?
When people followed Jesus Matt-John, they used their feet (Mat 14:13,19,20,22)
This literal following would be why Jesus instructed followers to sell possessions (Luke 12:33).
If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast..." Matt 19:21
Leave parents denying themselves for the sake of following the Lord (Mat 10:37-39, Mat16:24-26, Mat 19:29).
How do we follow Jesus when he is seated in heavenly places (Eph 1:20).
Paul, called by the ascended Christ, instructs us to follow him as he is of Christ.(1 Cor 11:1)
He recorded instructions (2 Tim 2:2, 2 Tim 3:16). The Bible rightly divided contains Gods instructions for you.
---michael_e on 11/19/15


The Church is the body of Christ. It consist of individuals who are the "Called out" ones. Where the called out ones meet, there is Jesus Christ. For we are members of one body and Christ is the Head of that body. The Church is also called "the Called out Assembly"
This same individuals are those who have been called by God the Father and then given to Christ.
---Luke on 11/19/15


michal e, you are confused. We believers are following Jesus Christ. And of course no one is perfect like Christ. Nevertheless we follow Him. He sustains us. He is our Savior, not Paul. When Paul speaks it is not his own words that had power, It was the power of our Lord that was working through him. If the words that we speak come in Power, then and only then will a sinner come to Christ. Just listen to Paul:
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, "but also in power" and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake."
1 Thess. 1:4,5.
It was the power of God that made the difference.
---Luke on 11/19/15


Confusion? I know Paul is not the messiah, but he is our pattern (1 Tim 1:16)
I used to think like you do, as most teach.
I always heard "I'm following Jesus" but I saw nobody could do it, as he was perfect.
We can follow our apostle
1 Cor 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Paul glorifies Christ more than all the writers
//Notable is that you do not use Christ words//(Rom 15:8, 2 Tim 3:16)
Try studying 2 Tim 2:15
---michael_e on 11/18/15


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But now" a period without Israel (no Jew nor "ethnos") with Christ. ...(Rom 11:32, Gal 3:28, Col 3:11, Eph 2:15). (
---michael_e on 11/16/15

You have created confusion for yourself. Not your fault, as it is taught. And recognizable. You've made Paul your messiah and prophet, by your own post. Paul doesn't.
Notable is that you do not use Christ words. Or the prophets words...that Christ fulfilled.
Note that you did not post Heb 8:8-10 the New Covenant. Nor Pauls opening remarks in Rom 11:1-2..I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. ...
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
You are cherry picking obscure verses, for your ladder rungs.
---Trav on 11/18/15


In the beginning there was a period without Jew or Gentile and without Christ. This resulted in mans failure.
"In time past" there was a period with Israel (Jew and Gentile) but without Christ. This resulted in Israels failure.
"But now" a period without Israel (no Jew nor Gentile) with Christ. This results in the salvation of a NEW creature not mentioned in Israels history called the church, the BoC (Rom 11:32, Gal 3:28, Col 3:11, Eph 2:15). (There is nothing new about Israel)
"In the ages to come, there will be a period with Israel (Jew and Gentile) with Christ. This will result in the salvation of Israel and the blessing of the nations
---michael_e on 11/16/15


The difference between the nation Israel and the boC is the information...
---michael_e on 11/12/15

United Israel, both houses, two sticks in prophecy are the BOC. The testimony in multiples. Eze 37 declares the whole house reuniting and resurrection. The New Covenant... Heb 8:8 explains the house of Israel "and" Judah. The word "and" is a times past and modern day wake up call.
Mar_4:11 he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mystery of redemption/restitution is Christ. The mystery for most is, where is rest of Israel? 1/12th Judah declares herself, some are Judah, some are not.
---Trav on 11/16/15


The difference between the nation Israel and the boC is the information that was spoken by the mouth of the prophets since the world began(Acts 3:21) and that which was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25). One is the subject of prophecy the other is the mystery. (Eph 3:1-5).
The prophetic program promises future dominion on earth, the mystery program promises dominion in heavenly places. These two programs describe Gods single purpose for eternity, that all things would be in Christ (Eph 1:10).
God revealed his earthly plan almost immediately to Adam, Abraham, eventually the nation Israel. He kept the information of his heavenly program a secret from the foundation of the world (Eph 3:9).
---michael_e on 11/12/15


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...Israel is the subject of prophecy, and the one body church is the subject of the mystery not revealed to the twelve tribes of Israel.
---michael_e on 11/7/15

Michael, this is just not logical or even scriptural. Unless you post some scriptural proof.
If the prophecy is about Israel...then they are the "ecclesia" subject of the mystery. The only mystery Israel is under is where and who they are, and how the end would unfold. We still find them the recipient at the 12 gates in Rev 22.
We find the the "sheep" searched for in OT and Matt 10:6/15:24. Christ didn't fail. Israel's Lost Sheep...accepted. Judah, will...those who are truly Judah and not imposters.
---Trav on 11/11/15


\\Okay, Cluny! In your search for spiritual insight, do not think or claim to never have refused the truth. You seemingly only LIKE to know THE ACCEPTED VERSION of truth.

The accepted version of the truth has been taught for thousands of years in THE CHURCH OF MAN. Many perditious teachings (outright lies and mistaken misunderstandings).
\\

faithforfaith, am I to infer from your words that we DO exist as discarnate purely spiritual entities in the World to Come?

And you think that God did NOT invent and create material things?

This is gnosticism, not Christianity.

Repent!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/9/15


Israel is the subject of prophecy, and the one body church is the subject of the mystery not revealed to the twelve tribes of Israel.
---michael_e on 11/7/15

You are right in the sense of Israel still not seeing everything clearly. Without even realizing it Israel lay claim to the blessings covenanted, the evidence all around us. Judah who is also Israel has/will not recognize Christ, out of jealousy over the (ethnos)Nth House's redeeming acceptance, by the Messiah that came of their own national tribe.
The ending is written.
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, at the gates twelve angels, names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
---Trav on 11/9/15


It's simple to divide the scripture speaking of the church (one body) from the nation which has twelve tribes.
Where the twelve tribes are found in your Bible it is speaking about God working through Israel.
This means the one body church is not found in Gen. through Mal. Jesus earthly ministry to Israel, at Pentecost in Acts 2, nor the Hebrew epistles written to the twelve tribes by the apostles, including Revelation.
When God is working through Israel on earth he is not working through the church which his is body.
Israel is the subject of prophecy, and the one body church is the subject of the mystery not revealed to the twelve tribes of Israel.
---michael_e on 11/7/15


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Okay, Cluny! In your search for spiritual insight, do not think or claim to never have refused the truth. You seemingly only LIKE to know THE ACCEPTED VERSION of truth.

The accepted version of the truth has been taught for thousands of years in THE CHURCH OF MAN. Many perditious teachings (outright lies and mistaken misunderstandings).

The church of man is the result/offspring of all that perdition (the "son of perdition).

If a person chooses not to remain a son of perdition, they need to learn to LOVE the truth.

...In John 17:12, Jesus says that "NONE IS LOST but the son of perdition".

"Come out of her".

"because they REFUSED to LOVE the truth AND SO BE SAVED".
---faithforfaith on 11/7/15


\\that "THE CHURCH" is OF SPIRIT (SPIRITUAL...MIND AND SOUL, not PHYSICAL).\\

We do not exist in the World to Come as merely spiritual discarnate entities.

And the visible Church is where the World to come breaks into the present physical world.

Quit trying to be more spiritual than God. He likes physical things. He invented them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/7/15


You say the Logos is not soul and mind....

What is meant by and exactly constitutes "LOGOS"?.

The Word of God (Jesus) hung on the cross. If you are referring to everything that makes the JESUS DISPENSATION important (Jesus on the cross AND the giving of the divine Spirit), then you are beginning to understand that "THE CHURCH" is OF SPIRIT (SPIRITUAL...MIND AND SOUL, not PHYSICAL).
---faithfiorfaith on 11/6/15


Faith for faith said, "The text of Isaiah 9:18 told the Jews that GOD IN THREE PERSONS would be revealed to them (and then the word became flesh and hung on the cross).... Jesus WITH THE DIVINE SPIRIT is a NEW FAITH (the Jews knew only JEHOVAH Creator)."

I'm sorry, Faith, but I have read through several versions of that verse, and this is what I got: For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.

Maybe you put the wrong verse in there by accident.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/6/15


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\\the true church is of MIND and SOUL.

Eph 3:16 His Spirit in the INNER MAN

Rom 7:22 in my inmost self,\\

But the Logos didn't become a mere mind or soul or inner man or inmost self.

He became a FULL HUMAN BEING with a physical body and was known in these latter days as Jesus.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/6/15


The people and purpose of the church changes as God progressively revealed his plans.
Moses was in the church in the wilderness (Acts 7:38 ).
This church operated mostly out of the Mosaic Covenant,
Under the NT, there were devout Jewish believers preaching the gospel of the kingdom and that Jesus was the Son of God. They were participants in pouring out Gods Holy Spirit at Pentecost, Led by Peter, this congregation was preparing to go into the kingdom.(Acts 2:44-47)
Today, when we trust in the gospel, we are placed into the boC, which is the church (1 Cor 12:13 , Col 1:24 1 Cor 12:27)
Christ is the head and we are subject to him (Eph 5:23-32 ) We don"t go to a temple to worship, we are the temple. (1 Cor 3:16)
---michael_e on 11/5/15


The true church is not one of TEXT, BUILDINGS, or clergy, the true church is of MIND and SOUL.

Eph 3:16 His Spirit in the INNER MAN

Rom 7:22 in my inmost self,

The text of Isaiah 9:18 told the Jews that GOD IN THREE PERSONS would be revealed to them (and then the word became flesh and hung on the cross).... Jesus WITH THE DIVINE SPIRIT is a NEW FAITH (the Jews knew only JEHOVAH Creator).

Rev 19:13 the name by which he is called is The Word of God (this is "THE CHRIST" (Jesus) that Moses chose to suffer for (THE "Word of God" is "THE CHRIST" Jesus).

Many misbeliefs have been taught.
---faithforfaith on 11/5/15


Faith for faith said, "The church OF MAN consists of buildings, text, and clergy (clergy is a chain of command...pastors, priests, monsignor, bishops, etc.).

The church OF GOD is the INNER BEING/man (the true "soul")."


Actually, Faith, the word church has several meanings, all of which can be used correctly. The Church can be a building, it can be a local body of baptized believers, or it can be the whole Body of Christ, of which He is the head.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/5/15


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Ekklesia merely means a called-out company. So be sure of the context in which you find it used.
---john1944 on 11/4/15


In speaking of the church:

The Visible Church or the Militant Church or your local church body is made up of the born again, baptized believers in Christ.

The general assembly or the church of the firstborn, the body of Christ, or "the Church" is made up of all God's children given to Christ before the foundation of the world (aka all those Christ redeemed upon the cross.)
---trey on 11/4/15


The English word "church" actually has several meanings.

Deal with it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/15


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