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Who Was Arius

Who was Arius, and why were his teachings condemned by the Church?

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the unworthy monk Brendan

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 11/10/15
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//So you decide what it takes or does not take to be God?// MarkEaton.

No Mark, the Bible does that. I've already shown you Jesus' irrefutable statement at Matthew 11:27 (selectively quoted by you), "all things are delivered to me by my Father". Jesus is given something he once did not have. By definition, Jesus is not God.

//I never read the word union in the verses//

The preposition, "en" (in) can be translated 'by', or 'among' according to context. The idea that everyone is "in" eachother is absurd. Thus,an accurate rendering of Jo.14:10 reads 'in union with'.
---David8318 on 12/13/15


//Adequate Biblical Responses// john0346.

When are you going give 'Adequate Biblical Responses' to your trinity definition? Your definition is:

"In the being of God (essence) there exist Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are co equal, co eternal, and co existing, 3 distinct persons. The Father is not The Son, The Son is not The Father, and The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor is he the Son".

This in not in the Bible! You must be quoting from your aid to understanding the trinity handbook? If I'm juvenile, this make you spiritually delinquent!

I have responded to your scripture references. Unsurprisingly, none of them include your trinity definition.
---David8318 on 12/11/15


Sorry to burst your baloon Mark, but that means Jesus is not God.
---David8318 on 12/10/15

Really? So you decide what it takes or does not take to be God? How arrogant.

Jesus who created all things says to you:

Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding"

You have no understanding because you deny the Son, His due. You will never know the Father, because only the Son can reveal the Father to you, the Scriptures alone cannot. Everything comes from the Son, the Son even keeps you alive (Col 1:17).

Yet you continue to deny the Son.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/15


Thus, when Jesus said he "is in the Father, and we will be in Jesus" etc it simply means Jesus is in union with his father...United in thought and purpose.
---David8318 on 12/10/15

I never read the word union in the verses. Did you make that up? Is that another one of your eisegetical readings of Scripture?

If Jesus is not God, please explain how Jesus has the power to perform the following verse. How can Jesus raise himself from the dead?

John 10:18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/15


//you say he is another god// Luke.

No, regarding John 1:1, I previously said, "It does not identify the Word as another God".

For those unlike Luke who do care and who are not scared of the truth, a reminder that John 1:1 describes the Word. It doesn't identify the Word as another God in addition to the God it is "with"as trinitarians do.

The same grammar is used at Acts 28:6, where Paul survived a snake bite. Everyone believed Paul was "theos", the same description given to the Word at Jo.1:1. Is Paul "God", or "a god"? If its good for Acts 28:6, then its good for John 1:1.

Context Luke, context!
---David8318 on 12/11/15




David, you said:
"That's you're problem Luke. You just don't care. You don't care where your trinity dogma came from becuase it scares you to know."

I don't care what he thinks or for that matter what E.G.White thinks. What scares me is knowing that many will believe them. That is scary.
My faith is in Christ Jesus and His word. I believe in the Trinity because God allowed me to. The reason you speak against it is because God has not allowed you to. You believe in a different Jesus. I have no power to change that. It is the work of God.
When asked "who then can be saved?" Jesus answered:
"But Jesus looked at them and said, with men it is impossible, but not with God. .."
---Luke on 12/11/15


//Who cares what Andrew Norton says or believes?// Luke.

That's you're problem Luke. You just don't care. You don't care where your trinity dogma came from becuase it scares you to know. I posted Andrew Norton's comments because john wanted some proof of Plato's Hellenic influence on the trinity dogma. Here is another one for you and john to chaff at:

The Church of the First Three Centuries says: 'The doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation... it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures... it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers'.
---David8318 on 12/10/15


//Jesus being delivered all things by the Father does not bother me... it happened in the past// MarkEaton.

It doesn't matter when Jesus was delivered all things, whether it was in the past, present or future. The fact remains, Jesus is delivered something he previously didn't have. Sorry to burst your baloon Mark, but that means Jesus is not God.

Thus, when Jesus said he "is in the Father, and we will be in Jesus" etc it simply means Jesus is in union with his father as the disciples are in union with them. United in thought and purpose.

You don't believe Jesus died- you believe he is the eternal God. So how can you be reconciled to God? How am I adopted as a son of God? Read Romans 8:15,16.
---David8318 on 12/10/15


David said, "Norton is not writting what he believed. You're dodging the point. He is discussing how pagan philosophies of Plato and Philo have influenced the trinity dogma seen in Christendoms churches."

Well, it is obvious sir you have not read page 94 of the book in context of what you cited...

I and others are waiting for you to address the verses we have laid out to you.

I am going to hold you to an adequate addressing of the verses I provided you on this blog and the other blog "Advantage of Christianity."

We all would like Adequate Biblical Responses and not Juvenile Personal Attacks...
---john9346 on 12/10/15


But trinitarian Bibles... Not that they're "in" each other... come on!
---David8318 on 12/9/15

Trinitarian Bibles? Really?

Only your NWT and perhaps the Jefferson Bible are the illegitimate copies of the Bible I know of. Every other Bible is Trinitarian because they speak the truth about the Son, that the Son is Kurios (Lord of All) to the Glory of God the Father.

And yes, Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus. And as we see in John 14:20, we will be in Jesus and Jesus in us.

Why else do you think Jesus died? What do you think it means to be reconciled to the Father, who is spirit? How are you adopted as a son of God?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/10/15




//Mr. Norton did not believe Jesus was "Divine." at all// -john9346.

Norton is not writting what he believed. You're dodging the point. He is discussing how pagan philosophies of Plato and Philo have influenced the trinity dogma seen in Christendoms churches.

The trinity dogma was "germinated" or originated from Hellenic philosophies pre-dating Christ.

Those verses you provide claiming they prove Jesus is Jehovah. None of them contain your trinitarian rehtoric, "3 in 1", "3 divine persons in one", not even "God the Father, God the son, God the holy spirit". The Bible doesn't even say "trinity"!

Your pagan trinity dogma is scripturally impotent!
---David8318 on 12/9/15


//trying to disprove others// MarkEaton

Forgot Marks trinitarian translation at John 14:10 reads 'I am in the Father, and the Father in Me'.

If Mark buys into that trinitarian rendering that's his call. But trinitarian Bibles also have Jesus saying about his disciples at John 17:21, 'that they also may be one in us' (Douay).

Mark believes John 14:10 proves the trinity in that "the Father is in Him [Jesus] and He is in the Father". But according to John 17:21, using Mark's trinitarian distortions, the disciples are also part of the trinity!

Rather, John 14:10 and 17:21 discusses the unity between God and Jesus and his disciples. Not that they're "in" eachother... come on!
---David8318 on 12/9/15


"the Father is in Him and He is in the Father"
Another blatant trinitarian falsehood. No where does the Bible say this!
---David8318 on 12/9/15

Perhaps you should stop trying to disprove others and actually read what the Bible says:

John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?..."

Jesus being delivered all things by the Father does not bother me. The tense of the verb delivered is aorist, meaning it happened in the past. When in the past? John 1:3-4 tells us. Before the world began.

You must re-learn the Father, starting with the knowledge of the Son. Otherwise, you call the Son a liar.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/9/15


//Jesus said in Matt. 11:27// -MarkEaton.

Mark selectively quotes from a scripture and includes a big lie!

Matthew 11:27 says in full: "All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" (RSV).

Notice Mark omits the first part of the verse, 'All things have been delivered to me by my Father', obviously because Jesus being given something by his father doesn't sit well with the trinitarian view that Jesus is God.

//the Father is in Him and He is in the Father//- MarkEaton.

Another blatant trinitarian falsehood. No where does the Bible say this!
---David8318 on 12/9/15


David, you give all this explanations about nouns and Greek grammar and then say:
"A non-polytheist rendering reads: 'and the Word was a god'."

Now you say the Word was a god. And you argue there is only one God. So what you are saying is there is two Gods. Or One God and one little god. Doesn't that still say there is two Gods?
So the little god came in the flesh as "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (v14).
Don't you comprehend that the Word is the eternal Word of God? That the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God? It is One God. And you say he is another god. Make up your mind.
---Luke on 12/9/15


\\A non-polytheist rendering reads: 'and the Word was a god'.
---David8318 on 12/8/15\\

First off, Koine and other ancient Greek do not make distinctions of meaning based on capitalization, as they did not have capital letters.

Next, "kai theos en o logos" would be "And God was the Word."

The statement you gave, David, is pure polytheism.

JWs have always had one god too many.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/15


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David said, "
In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity:

'We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy... The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists.'"

And you fail to cite that Mr. Norton also denies the Jesus of theJW's, "the doctrine of the personality of the Logos, and of his divinity, in an Inferior sense of that term, which was the germ of the Trinity, was immediately derived from Philo, the Jewish Plato as he has been called,"

Mr. Norton did not believe Jesus was "Divine." at all.
---john9346 on 12/8/15


//John 1:1. Your mind cannot comprehend that// Luke.

You ignore the context in your rendition of John 1:1. You say, 'the Word was with God, and the Word was God'. You thus believe there are 2 Gods. First: the Word is "God" and Second: the "God" the Word is "with". This is trinitarian polytheism.

You also ignore Greek grammar. At John 1:1, the predicate noun [theos] occurs before the verb ('kai theos en ho logos'). In such cases, remembering context to avoid your polytheist rendering, 'theos' describes the Word. It does not identify the Word as another God in addition to the God it is "with".

A non-polytheist rendering reads: 'and the Word was a god'.
---David8318 on 12/8/15


David says,
"In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity:"
Who cares what Andrew Norton says or believes? Do you know what my neighbor said concerning the Trinity? I bet you don't want to know.
Mark E answered you with passages and all you did was skip the passages and instead brought more accusations against him. That is why I didn't want to give you any passages explaining the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. You just don't answer the passages one give you, instead you bring more negative remarks against the person who answers you.
Jehovah Witnesses do the same thing when they come to my house. You are worse because you are online and you do not have to face the person.
---Luke on 12/8/15


David said, "I recall you were put in your place. There is plenty of evidence to show your trinity dogma is cultured out of Hellenic philosophy. Your cult leaders don't want you to know:"

Actually sir, me, nicole, samuel, and others could never get you to address the Scriptures we showed to you.


Everytime either one of us asked you a question you would jump to something else.

Just remember if you want to be taken serious and believed please learn to answer questions which does not mean avoiding a question to ask a question.

seekers of truth, see, "advantages of Christianity Blog."
---john9346 on 12/8/15


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//I never said that Jesus came as an angel//- Luke.

I never said you did. What you did say was:

"He can also come into the world as a human being. We also see in Scripture that while angels are also spirit beings, they are able to come as human beings.
But you do not have faith that God can do the same".

You want me to have faith that God can come as a human in the same way the spirit angels came as human! Is that how you believe Jesus became a human being, in the same way spirit angels were able to appear as humans?

No, I do not believe your false understanding of scripture. Jesus was not a spirit being clothed with flesh. Jesus "became flesh" to fully die for our sins. Comprendo?
---David8318 on 12/8/15


Hi david,

Jesus is Yahweh/Jehovah verses.

Jn 8:58 Exo 3:14, Heb 1:8 Ps. 45:6, Heb 1:10 Ps. 102 25-27.

Jn 12:41 Isa 6:1, Phil 2:10-11 Isa 45:23. Jn 20:28

If you will read carefully these verses, it shows you that Jesus is God, and answers your question regarding God The Father and God The Son.

---john9346 on 10/11/15
---john on 12/8/15


//Trinitarianism and Triadism// john9346.

However you dress up your trinity dogma john, its not Christian. The other john blogger cannot show where his trinitarian belief is specifically taught in scripture.

More evidence of you Hellenic, Platonic bent:

In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity:

'We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy... The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists.'

The trinity is nothing but pagan darkness. There are many theologians and Christians who identify the trinity dogma with pagan Plato.
---David8318 on 12/8/15


I recall you were put in your place.
---David8318 on 12/8/15

And I recall that you were put in your place. I will repeat what I said before, perhaps you have forgotten.

Jesus said in Matt. 11:27 that only the Father knows Him and only He knows the Father. Therefore, Moses, the Prophets, and all men before Jesus only had limited knowledge of the Father.

And what did Jesus say of the Father? Only that He and the Father were One and that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father. Confirming at least two parts of the Triune God.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/15


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David, I never said that Jesus came as an angel. The baby born to Mary was name Jesus. He was born of the Spirit. He is also called the Word, or the Word of God. Yet we are told that He is God.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." John 1:1. Your mind cannot comprehend that.
We know He is God because He is the Creator of all things including the angelic beings.
Now I am not going to try and convince you of anything. It is impossible for me a mere human to have that power. Only God can change not only your heart but also your understanding. That is His job not mine.
---Luke on 12/8/15


//you were corrected//- john9346.

I recall you were put in your place. There is plenty of evidence to show your trinity dogma is cultured out of Hellenic philosophy. Your cult leaders don't want you to know:

'The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating backto earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches... This Greek philosopher's conception of the divine trinity... can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.'- The French Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (New Universal Dictionary).

There is more.
---David8318 on 12/8/15


//you have no faith// Luke.

On the contrary, I have complete faith in the Bible and its author- Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ. The trinity dogma is irrelevant as your trinitarian co-hort john demonstrates in being unable to provide scriptures describing the trinity in the specific terms he uses.

//angels are also spirit beings, they are able to come as human beings//

Is that how you believe Jesus became a human being? You believe Jesus became human in the same way angels were able to appear as humans? You are far from the truth. Yes Jesus became flesh, but not in the way angels have done. You cannot comprehend the difference. However, Jehovah has never become human.

'No one has ever seen God...' Jo.1:18 (NIV).
---David8318 on 12/7/15


John, you are wasting your time giving David Scriptures. He will not answer the questions but will give you another question for you to answer. In order to believe the Trinity a person has to have faith. He doesn't have it. Faith is hard to come by because God grants it as He pleases.
"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only "believe" in Him but also suffer for His sake" Philippians 1:29.
And the reason I say it is useless is because we are told:
"The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:14
---Luke on 12/7/15


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David states, "No where in scripture does the Bible use the terms you use to describe God."

Can you proove it??

As I recall, on the blog I previously mentioned, many Scriptures were shown to you and your repeated actions were not to deal with them.

So, now I challenge you please show us say 1 Scripture that disprooves the trinity.

Also, for your information, Tertullian who coined the name "Trinity." was against Neo-platonic/greek philosophy.

Tertullian said, "What does Athens have to do with Jerusalem."
---john9346 on 12/7/15


David, how do you explain God going from singular to plural in Genesis creation of the world?

Even the Jewish people who don't believe in the Trinity states it is odd and a mystery to them when speaking about Genesis.

They also KNEW better not to change the Scripture to fit their belief in God being ONE.

They left the Scripture as it is and give no explanation for God saying 'We' and 'US' in Genesis.

Also when speaking to Abraham about Lot's situation.
God goes from singular to plural.

But they don't DENY that God is speaking for more than ONE BEING.

Please explain your thoughts.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/6/15



And I know the Bible in three languages and 17 English translations and can outBible you in any of them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 12/3/15


What makes you think you can outBible me? You have yet to do it with anyone on these blogs. Anytime you feel you have won an argument it is because you reverted to your denominational traditions, opinions, and church "history" rather than scripture. I have never seen you win a debate on these blogs using scripture alone.
---Jed on 12/7/15


David, the reason you do not believe in the Trinity is because you have no faith in the God of Scripture. Your faith cannot comprehend that God while been a Spirit, He can also come into the world as a human being. We also see in Scripture that while angels are also spirit beings, they are able to come as human beings.
But you do not have faith that God can do the same. Your faith comes from what the New World Translation says. That translation has been distorted because passages have been change. But that is your faith. You can never understand our faith no matter how much information you are given. Maybe one day God will open your eyes to our faith. And again maybe never. And you will be ok with that because it is your faith, not ours.
---Luke on 12/7/15


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//To help you understand,

"In the being of God (essence) there exist Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are co equal, co eternal, and co existing, 3 distinct persons (blah blah blah...)//- john.

I understand your trinitarian rehtoric above cannot be supported by scripture. There are no scriptures that describe your belief in the specific terms you use.

You do demonstarte quite adequately and for john9346 benefit your Neo-platonic bent. You use (no doubt in ignorance) Plato's philosophy of "essence and substance" (metaphysics) in your understanding of God.

No where in scripture does the Bible use the terms you use to describe God.
---David8318 on 12/6/15


David states, "Everyone knows the Bible says 'God is one' - Deut.6:4."

Yes, and so do Trinitarians.

I believe you are confusing Trinitarianism and Triadism.

On a Prior Blog, "Advantages of Christianity." you were corrected evidentially on this error you stated there as well.

David states, "And trinitarians get their belief framework from pagan Greek philosopher Plato."

Seriously, please show us this evidentially??
---john9346 on 12/6/15


David,

To help you understand,

Here is definition of the Trinity.



"In the being of God (essence) there exist Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are co equal, co eternal, and co existing, 3 distinct persons. The Father is not The Son, The Son is not The Father, and The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor is he the Son.
---john on 12/6/15


Darlene, people disrespect the Bible and distort it.
JW's teachinsg are not new just because they print their thoughts on paper.

Arius believed Jesus is St. Michael the Archangel as JW.

The first one to teach a heresy has the honor of having the heresy named after him.

Arianism is a system of beliefs about the nature of God developed by Arius, a 4th Century Egyptian presbyter and theologian. Arianism caused significant controversy in the early Christian church, eventually prompting the calling of the first ecumenical council, the First Council of Nicea. During the council, Christian bishops drafted the Nicene Creed to refute the teachings of Arius and establish the basics of orthodox Christian theology.- Opposing views.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/15


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\\They hold their denominational church traditions and the opinions of their pope to be equal in authority to Scripture.\\

Jed, Orthodoxy has no bishop that arrogates to himself the things the Roman pontiff has claimed.

That you would say this shows your knowledge of Orthodoxy is sketchy at best.

And I know the Bible in three languages and 17 English translations and can outBible you in any of them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/3/15


David, no cow-towing, but gladly celebrating Jesus birthday on December 25th.

One thing you must know is that the RCC doesn't do ANYTHING from thin air.

December 25th is when daylight time is finally longer than the dark time. Day light increases minute by minute. Darkness decrease.

Who is the TRUE Light of the World? Jesus. The evil one decrease.

From his Birth Jesus grows big and strong right?
Symbolism plays a big role in the Jewish faith.
Bethlehem in Hebrew means 'House of bread'.

Jesus is going to state his Body is Food to eat.
Jesus is placed in a manager (where animals eat)

Naturally God in His Wisdom and the Holy Spirit inspired the RCC to pick December 25th to celebrate his birthday.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/15


'The RCC PICKED December 25th to CELEBRATE His Birth'- Nicole.

Do you honestly believe the RCC simply plucked a date oot of 'thin air'? Are you saying despite your belief Jesus was born in Spring (which I doubt) you nevertheless cow-tow to the RCC apostasy and celebrate Jesus' birth on December 25?

Nicole, there is a reason why the RCC picked December 25. RCC founder, pagan Roman Emperor Constantine and Roman Emperors who preceded him celebrated the Roman Saturnalia- a pagan festival- and the birth of their false god "Mithra" on December 25.

Like the pagan trinity dogma, the apostate RCC founders also pinched the pagan festival of December 25.
---David8318 on 12/3/15


'They had books with combination of the Bible and written items of Arius'- Nicole.

I'm sorry but exactly what books are you talking about? I really do believe you are now making up stories to justify your argument. There are no writtings of Arius in existence today. And there are no books produced by JW's which "combine" the Bible with Arius.

Those who oversee congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses are not called "leaders" as you claim, which is clear evidence that your 'Uncle and Aunt' story is a fabrication and an attempt to associate JW's with Arius by subterfuge.
---David8318 on 12/3/15


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'the Bible they read... was edited'- Samuel.

Where has it been edited? Any examples? The truth is, Samuel's trinitarian translators have edited out God's name Jehovah (Yahweh- YHWH) from their Bibles. Samuel's reprehensible trinitarian translators do this because it doesn't sit well with their false trinity dogma.

//Jw's do not believe that the can be born again//

Thats not true. Of course there are born again ones who are sealed and enter the Kingdom of the heavens- Jo.3:3, Mt.13:24, Rev.7:4. What Sam fails to comprehand is that in addition to those who are 'sealed', the Bible at John 10:16 and Revelation 7:9 reveal that there are others, a 'great crowd' (multitude- KJV) who also gain salvation.
---David8318 on 12/2/15



Nicole while JW study the Bible. They do not get all their beliefs from it.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/1/15


The same is also true about Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. They hold their denominational church traditions and the opinions of their pope to be equal in authority to Scripture. Although from reading on these blogs, it is doubtful that they even study the scriptures at all.
---Jed on 12/2/15


Nicole while JW study the Bible. They do not get all their beliefs from it.---Samuelbb7 on 12/1/15

Please repost my pasted posting of me stating what you claim?

I believe you are mistaken.
David asked me how do I know that the JW get there beliefs from Arius.

//What evidence do you have to show "most" of JW belief's are from Arius?-David8318

I told him about my Uncle and Aunt's books with both beliefs from Arius and the Bible

---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/15


Nicole while JW study the Bible. They do not get all their beliefs from it.

Two reasons their church translated the Bible they read so it was edited to show their doctrine.

Second they look on the Watchtower as an infallible source of Truth. Similar to the way some consider the Pope.

You once mentioned that you were born Again.

Jw's do not believe that the can be born again. They reject that truth.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/1/15


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//What evidence do you have to show "most" of JW belief's are from Arius?-David8318

They had books with combination of the Bible and written items of Arius. The Books were shown to me in hopes that I would convert.

My Uncle and Aunt were what they called 'Leaders' in the Spanish JW in Birmingham.


Sorry, but as usual you all confuse words and it's meaning.
I said the RCC doesn't believe Jesus was BORN on December 25th. NO ONE KNOWS.

The RCC PICKED December 25th to CELEBRATE His Birth.

If you adopted a kid who the Adoption Agency didn't know his birthdate, are you going to deny him a birthday party?
No, you would just pick a date making it officially his birthday.

Peter has the Keys.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/15


No, he mostly was born in the around spring time. ---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/15

Lol. That's even more off than those who think he was born on Dec. 25th. Jesus was born during the Jewish fall festival of Sukkot, which usually begins in late September and ends in early October. Perhaps you are confusing Jesus' birth with his resurrection, which indeed did occur in the spring. I'm surprised as a Nun in the convent you didn't learn about the Biblical feasts and festivals, and how the events of the New Testament and Jesus' life coincided with them. If you don't study scripture, what do you Nuns do all day?
---Jed on 12/1/15


'Half of my family are JW'- Nicole.

Thats nice to hear. If you are familiar with JW's, why would you make a statement such as 'JW get most of their beliefs from Arius' (11/15/15) if you also acknowledge they read the Bible? What evidence do you have to show "most" of JW belief's are from Arius?

//No, he mostly was born in the around spring time//

So you don't celebrate xmas on December 25? You've gone up in my estimation if thats the case. I would put Jesus' birth around end Sept going from info in Luke.
---David8318 on 12/1/15


\\I'm sure Nicole will next tell us Jesus was born on Dec 25.\\
No, he mostly was born in the around spring time.
AGAIN. The RCC NEVER made an infallible date for Jesus' birth. The RCC proclaimed Dec 25 as the day to celebrate His birth. Light is gaining and surpassing the dark.

Words are important. It isn't nice to distort someone's belief.

//so Contrary to Nicole's views, JW's get their belief's from the Bible ---David8318 on 11/30/15

Why would you make a statement like that?

Half of my family are JW.
My Aunt and Uncle lived with me for 6 months. They knew those Bible. My cousin as well. All JW read the Bible.

It's the interpretation that is off to me.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/15


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'JW get most of their beliefs from Arius'- Nicole (11/15/15).

And trinitarians get their belief framework from pagan Greek philosopher Plato.

Everyone knows the Bible says 'God is one' - Deut.6:4. To twist this truth, trinitarians employ Plato's Hellenic philosophy of 'metaphysics' and 'substance' & reason, 'What is begotten of God must be God' or 'Jesus is 'the Son of God' and therefore is God'. This is Neo-Platonic thought. Trinitarians are duped into using Hellenic philosophy to explain the false trinity dogma. Un-Biblical terms such as '3 in 1' is an example of Hellenic thought.

I'm sure Nicole will next tell us Jesus was born on Dec 25!

Contrary to Nicole's views, JW's get their belief's from the Bible.
---David8318 on 11/30/15


None is found if one doesn't WISH to look:

There is no documented evidence showing that Arius...Unfortunately, none of Arius's writings are extant. All we know about him is hearsay.---john1944

On the very top bar of your webpage TYPE Arius.
On Bing it states 1,140,000 results.

That's over 1 million.
Jump in and start browsing and READING if you WISH AND DARE to do so, but don't state there isn't any evidence.

You sound odd because anyone can Google, Bing or any other way immediately to see if you are correct.

OR just wait for the JW to knock at your door.

Put a sign out saying you are looking for them and within 3 days they will come.
I PROMISE. (but Saturday is the best day of the week)
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/17/15


There is no documented evidence showing that Arius believed Jesus pre-existed as any sort of angel. All Arius said was that the Father existed before the Son. Unfortunately, none of Arius's writings are extant. All we know about him is hearsay.
---john1944 on 11/16/15


Yes Paul was a trinitarian.

Good points Nicole and Cluny.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/16/15


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Cluny is right about Arius.

He taught that Jesus was St. Michael the Arch Angel since he was the most powerful Arch Angel. (Note, not the most powerful Angel).

He also taught that the Holy Spirit wasn't God.

JW get most of their beliefs from Arius.

JW will not tell you this upfront. They know this will stop you from inviting them back to your homes.
But, if they feel you can handle this information they will explain their belief system.

St. Hilary and St. Marin of Tours, Bishop (Feast/Memorial day just celebrated November the 11th.) brought against Arius' teaching in the late 4th Century.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/15/15


Cluny, okay. I'll take your word for it.
---john1944 on 11/14/15


\\Cluny, I don't have a clue..
---john1944 on 11/13/15\\

john1944, I DO have a clue that St. Paul was a Trinitarian. Look at the last verse of 2 Corinthians. It's a Trinitarian formula.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/14/15


1Co 12:4-6 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
-It would seem so.
---micha9344 on 11/14/15


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Cluny, I don't have a clue..
---john1944 on 11/13/15


Arius, was an Alexandrian presbyter who was a heretic. He taught that Christ was not God.

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Arius was an antichrist. See 1 John 2:18
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
---trey on 11/14/15


\\Micha, was Paul a Trinitarian?
---john1944 on 11/13/15\\

Surely, you don't think he was not, john1944.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/15


YOur Bible verse is correct Micha.

The Gospel is found in the Bible and it is to govern all we teach.

The Trinity doctrine comes from the Bile which is why we believe it.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/13/15


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Micha, was Paul a Trinitarian?
---john1944 on 11/13/15


Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Phi 3:16-18
---micha9344 on 11/13/15


Samuel, yes, SDA Christians too.
---john1944 on 11/12/15


No he was a heretic in the eyes of all Christians who believe the Bible teaches the Trinity.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/12/15


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Cluny, yes, all Orthodox Christians.
---john1944 on 11/12/15


\\ Cluny, okay, fair enough. Yes, he was a heretic in the eyes of the Council.
---john1944 on 11/12/15\\

And in the eyes of all Christians.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/15


Cluny, okay, fair enough. Yes, he was a heretic in the eyes of the Council.
---john1944 on 11/12/15


\\He was ordained a presbyter.
---john1944 on 11/11/15\\

Which means he had to be a deacon, first.

But he began his false teaching when he was a deacon.

No, Rob, I'm never wrong about Church history.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/15


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Arius taught that Jesus Christ was not truly divine. He said that Jesus was the highest point of creation, but He was not God.

Pray for me!
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 11/12/15


John1944, there is a problem!

If you look through all the blogs, Cluny is never wrong about anything!
---Rob on 11/11/15


Cluny, we were both wrong. He was ordained a presbyter.
---john1944 on 11/11/15


MarkEaton, and not just Jehovah's Witnesses.
---john1944 on 11/11/15


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\\Arius was a 4th century bishop. \\

Actually, he was just a deacon of Alexandria.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/15


Correct and thank you Mark Eaton.

The JW are the biggest group who still follow his teachings. Though I doubt many have heard his name.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/11/15


The teachings of Arius were that Jesus is not of the same substance as God the Father, that Jesus was less than fully divine, that Jesus was not co-eternal but created by The Father, and that Jesus should be worshipped but as a lesser created being. Arius was opposed by Athanasius and many others who supported to Trinitarian view of the Godhead.

However, Arianism continues today in the views of Jehovah Witnesses.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/11/15


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