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Eternal Son Of God

Is Jesus Christ the eternal Son of God? In other words, was Jesus the Son of God before the foundation of the world?

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 ---trey on 11/18/15
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Aservant, Adam and Eve were created. You were not. You were begotten. No part of Jesus was Created. So here we go back to the beginning. Jesus I's God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, not a unique created hybrid.

So I again ask, WHEN WAS Jesus Begotten? What do you believe begotten means? And 1 John says we( those born from ABOVE, aka Born Again, are begotten sons THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

David, Jesus said I WILL send the HOLY GHOST whip is the comforter and He will show you and teach you all things. Jesus didn't say, " I'll ask the Father to send the Holy Gost". He said I WILL send.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/16


Not only is there a trinity here, BUT Authority. What angel or man has such power and authority? David, WHO does scripture say IS the Comforter? Ans...The Holy Ghost.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
---kathr453 on 2/22/16


David, the WORD who is GOD WAS MADE FLESH, for the purpose of dying for our sin. A spirit can't die. A spirit has no BLOOD.

You simply do not understand salvation, or HOW GOD made possible your forgiveness.

Do you know what word in scripture means " GOD WITH US" ? Do you really not understand Hebrews 2?

No human can die for the sins of others. As in Adam all die. Jesus is GOD ...perfect sinless sacrifice, without sin, BECAUSE HE IS GOD, who was made flesh.....Hebrews 10, to take YOUR PLACE in taking the judgement of YOUR sin? There is salvation in no other.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/16


Php 2:9 . . . God also has highly exalted him (as a created being) and given him a name which is above every name (of all who were created),

Christ Jesus = Anointed Savior. Jesus is both UNcreated and created.
Completely unique, Jesus is the ONLY Biblical being who is a combination of UNcreation and creation. The UNcreated Word (God) made into created flesh (Jesus) holds the highest name in creation, indicative of Him having the Highest honor in creation.

Ps 89:27, Eph 1:20-23, Col 1:18, Heb 1:4, 1Pet 3:22

I am answering this for the 48,000+ daily readers of these pages, because as Satan's servant, ---David8318, you already know all of this.
---aservant on 2/21/16


//Jesus did not stop being God when He became flesh// - aservant.

Really?

The trinity is truly antichrist- 1Jo.4:2,3.
---David8318 on 2/19/16


YES! REALLY!!

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us . . . full of grace and truth.


"The trinity is truly antichrist- 1Jo.4:2,3".

This is the statement has cooked your goose and exposed your true deceiver's spirit. We all can see that you are Satan's servant. No servant of Jesus would call the "three in one" the antichrist.
---aservant on 2/20/16




When Jesus was on earth, Jesus said, "God is a Spirit"- Jo.4:24.

So was Jesus flesh? Or was he "spirit"?

---David8318 on 2/19/16


Both.

I'm curious why does it seem you are not able to fathom a spirit and a body enjoined?

Or can you truly fathom it, and only pretend there is no dichotomy of being?
---James_L on 2/20/16


MarkEaton complains like a spolit school child his answers are not being answered (when in fact they are), yet at the same time he doesn't answer questions put to him!

MarkEaton says, "I do say that Jesus is God" (2/16/16).

But Philippians 2:9 states, "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place".

My question still unanswered- If Jesus is God... who did God exalt?

You can't blame a trinitarian scarppering from tackling clear Biblical reasoning.
---David8318 on 2/20/16


\\Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

In Simple English: Sheep follow Christ...not a priest, monk, pope, statue, preacher, ortho icons or vestures.\\

Simple English: Trav doesn't sound like the voice of Jesus at all.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/20/16


God is there in the Garden walking with Adam and Eve doesn't agree with facts.
---David8318 on 2/19/16



Gen 3:21 (ERV) The LORD God used animal skins and made some clothes for the man and his wife. Then he put the clothes on them.

(GNB) And the LORD God made clothes out of animal skins for Adam and his wife, and he clothed them.

This seems to reinforce that God was "walking" in the garden. All these tranlators show that God was upon the earth, and even puting clothes on Adam and Eve. While it is true no man has seen God (who is Spirit), men have seen His similitude.
---aservant on 2/20/16


//Jesus did not stop being God when He became flesh// - aservant.

Really?

When Jesus was on earth, Jesus said, "God is a Spirit"- Jo.4:24.

So was Jesus flesh? Or was he "spirit"?

If Jesus never stopped being "God" when he came to earth, aservant therefore wants us to believe Jesus was not flesh... because, "God is a spirit".

Aservant wants us to believe Jesus was "God" who cannot die. Thus there is no salvation in trinitarianism which negates the redemptive value of Jesus' sacrificial death. The trinity is truly antichrist- 1Jo.4:2,3.
---David8318 on 2/19/16




Many doctrines of Christianity are not in agreement with other churches. For instance SDA teach baptism by immersion of those old enough to believe. Many disagree. That does not make the doctrine wrong.

As others have so ably pointed out. Jesus lowered himself to become a man. Therefore he had to be exalted back up to his previous position. There have been a number of verses you have not explained. Including Hebrews 1:5-8.

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

In order to create all things. Jesus had to not be created. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/19/16


Trav said, "I'll state it again, you are no brother by blood or in Christian spirit.
From your beginning here your contribution has been rcc divisive. You rarely bring scripture and when you do it is never conclusive to any point discussed.
You think your title/position/robe is a respectable pass. Too me it is found as "the" mark of the level of your self deception.
Like David, I detest every false way."


Okay Trav, have it your way. I am not going to listen to you, or direct any questions to you. You think I am the foulest sinner, ready to be thrown into the pit of fire. I don't have to answer to you at all.

WHATEVER!
---Monk_Brendan on 2/19/16


. . . no where in scripture will you find "God the Son" or "God the holy spirit"
---David8318


Maybe you're blinded. 2Co 4:4

The son of a tiger = tiger, the son of an elephant = elephant, the son of a bear = bear. The son of God = God.
Simba is a tiger's son. Simba is the son of a tiger. All can see you are wresting over semantics.

Jesus is the ONLY human formed by the Spiritual fertilization of a woman's egg by the Spirit of God.

Lk 1:35 (EMTV) . . . "The Holy Spirit shall come upon you, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow you, therefore, also, that Holy Baby which is to be born shall be called the Son of God.
---aservant on 2/20/16


//answer the question?// - MarkEaton.

I have answered the question. Mark's problem is that his presumption that God is there in the Garden walking with Adam and Eve doesn't agree with facts. MarkEaton claims I mislead and redirect when I had to point out the fact he couldn't even provide the correct verse in the first place!

Read Genesis 3:8 carefully Mark. God is not walking in the Garden. They "heard his voice" walking in the Garden. Where does Ge.3:8 say they saw God?

'No man has seen God at anytime'- Jo.1:18, also Ex.33:20.

Mark's errors are symptomatic of a trinitarian who treats the Bible in a flippant manner with no care as to what is written.
---David8318 on 2/19/16


//Where is "God the Son" mentioned// - reply from aservant.

Thank you aservant. Your set of scriptures proves that no where in scripture will you find "God the Son" or "God the holy spirit".

You clearly demonstrate that the trinity as you guys understand it, is not specifically taught in the Bible. All the verses you cite show Jesus is the son of God. It means exactly that... the son of God.

You employ Plato's pagan philosophy of mataphysics to twist scripture. Using Platonic philosophy, you teach "Jesus is the son of God, therefore he is God". This is false pagan trinitarian propaganda.
---David8318 on 2/19/16


\\You have never sought a sheep here, or consoled a sheep. \\
And you think you have, trav?
---Cluny on 2/17/16

Posted scriptures have. The scriptures you avoid, regarding sheep does, has and will console sheep.

Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

In Simple English: Sheep follow Christ...not a priest, monk, pope, statue, preacher, ortho icons or vestures.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
My Lord doesn't fail.
---Trav on 2/19/16


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A voice can certainly "travel". They heard God, but are you saying God was physically in the Garden?
---David8318 on 2/17/16

Why do you always deflect, redirect, mislead, and never answer the question?

Let's look at Genesis 3:8 again and not focus on the "voice" or "sound", and using whatever translation you like, answer this:

If God is a spirit and has no body, how is God WALKING in the Garden with the man and woman?

Every translation I have, all fifteen, say that Adonai (Kurios) is WALKING in the garden with the man and woman.

Please explain how your God walks.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/19/16


Trav said, "...First and foremost, you are not a brother or sister."

Are you telling me that Jesus was talking only about blood relatives? ...
---m_Brendan on 2/18/16

I'll state it again, you are no brother by blood or in Christian spirit.
From your beginning here your contribution has been rcc divisive. You rarely bring scripture and when you do it is never conclusive to any point discussed.
You think your title/position/robe is a respectable pass. Too me it is found as "the" mark of the level of your self deception.
Like David, I detest every false way.
Psa_119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, ...
---Trav on 2/19/16


//you have a lot of trouble understanding the nature and character of God// - Luke.

Really?

Look at the confusion among trinitarians:

'The Father and Son are equal', says Sambb7.

MarkEaton replies, 'I never said Jesus and the Father are equal'.

Sambb7 says, 'Jesus descended from being GOD and became a man',

aservant replies, 'Jesus did not stop being God'.

There is no unity of understanding among trinitarians. There is no unity because it is not a Bible teaching.

The character of God is very clear. Jehovah is the Almighty Creator (Deut.6:4, YHWH), Jesus is his son and firstborn of creation (Jo.1:34, Col.1:15).
---David8318 on 2/18/16


Where is "God the Son" mentioned . . . show me "God the Holy Spirit" . . .
---David8318 on 2/18/16

Mat 16:16 . . .Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 27:43 . . . for he said, I am the Son of God.
Mat 27:54 . . . saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mar 1:1 . . . Jesus Christ, the Son of God,

OT
1Sam 10:10 . . . the Spirit of God came upon him . .
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me . . .

NT
Mat 3:16 . . . he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove . . .
Mat 12:28 if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come . . .
Rom 8:9 . . . that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
---aservant on 2/18/16


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Trav said, "...First and foremost, you are not a brother or sister."

Are you telling me that Jesus was talking only about blood relatives? Or are you perhaps broadly hinting that I am not a Christian? If so, then you are wrong, and you have made a judgment, by which you will be judged! (Matt7)
---Monk_Brendan on 2/18/16


//God the Son is also mentioned// Luke.

Where?

Where is "God the Son" mentioned in the Bible? Chapter and verse please? While you're at it, can you show me "God the Holy Spirit" as well please. This would help us poor non-trinitarians finally believe the trinity is scriptural and thus should be believed.

But silliness aside, I won't hold my breath because Luke knows the Bible doesn't say 'God the Son', neither 'God the Holy Spirit'. The trinity Luke has been told to believe is not a Bible teaching.

By the way Luke, the ones being saved in 1Cor.1:18 are ones who believe whats written in the Bible. That Jesus died on the torture stake, is thus not eternal and not part of an un-Biblical pagan trinity.
---David8318 on 2/18/16



Jesus descended from being GOD and became a man.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/17/16


Jesus did not stop being God when He became flesh.

Jn 1:1 . . . the Word was God.

Jn 1:3 All things were made by him . . .

Jn 1:14 And the Word(God) was made flesh . . .
{not, God stopped being God when made into flesh.}

Eph 3:9 . . . created all things by Jesus Christ:

Jn 5:18 . . . said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Php 2:6 . . . being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God
---aservant on 2/18/16


Jesus descended from being GOD and became a man. So GOD lifted him back up.

Hebrews 1:5-8 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/17/16


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A voice can certainly "travel". They heard God, but are you saying God was physically in the Garden?
---David8318 on 2/17/16


God is Omnipresent. AND He has the ability to reveal Himself so men can see Him. Look up "similitude" in the KJV, then look it up in Strong's. Yes, God was there in similitude, not physically.

Pr 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place . . .

Is 66:1 Thus says the LORD, "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool . . .

Jer 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
---aservant on 2/17/16


//How did Jehovah fulfill this verse// MarkEaton.

Believe you mean Gen.3:8?

I can't remember the amount of times trinitarians have come to their doors with Gen.3:8 in their hands claiming Jesus was in the Garden of Eden. What do translations say on this verse?

'And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden...' (KJV)

'And they heard the voice of Jehovah God walking in the garden...' (ASV)

'And they heard the voice of Jehovah Elohim, walking in the garden...' (Darby)

A voice can certainly "travel". They heard God, but are you saying God was physically in the Garden?
---David8318 on 2/17/16


//I do say that Jesus is God// MarkEaton.

Phil.2:9, "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place".

If Jesus is God... who did God exalt?
---David8318 on 2/17/16


Jehovah is a Spirit. How did Jehovah fulfill this verse:

Gen. 3:14 "They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden . . .
---Mark_Eaton on 2/16/16


Since nothing is impossible to God, He has the ability to be seen in similitude. Here is another example of how He allows Himself to be seen by man.

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day,
Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
---aservant on 2/17/16


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\\You have never sought a sheep here, or consoled a sheep. \\

And you think you have, trav?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/17/16


Here is a warning!

Matt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. ...
---Monk_Brendan on 2/12/16

Stroke two. Warning is not applicable by you. Maybe too you but, First and foremost, you are not a brother or sister. I've rebuked the dissension you bring, resembling the spirit of a wolf.
You worship your pope, church and robe. You have never sought a sheep here, or consoled a sheep.
Act_20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Joh_10:12 But he that is an hireling, ...
---Trav on 2/17/16


I wonder if David has permission from his JW overseers to be here arguing with us, or if he's doing it on his own without permission.
---john1944 on 2/16/16


The antichrist trinity teaches Jesus' is eternal, yet adherents will also say he died.
---David8318 on 2/13/16

You never answered my question.

According to your literature, Jehovah is a Spirit. How did Jehovah fulfill this verse:

Gen. 3:14 "They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/16/16


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Do you deny the Father exalted the Son to a higher place?
---David8318 on 2/13/16

Why would I deny it? I never said Jesus and the Father are equal.

However, I do say that Jesus is God. Scripture clearly confirms this. Both OT and NT confirm the Deity of Jesus.

But here is another passage of Scripture you have to change to promote your religion:

Phil 2:5-7 "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/16/16


John 8:58 He said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Not only so, but David is calling Jesus a LIAR. There begins the problem. David has the same problem that the Pharisees had, in denying that Jesus Christ was/is GOD. They too were blind to the truth and had Jesus KILLED, for saying He was God, their promised Messiah. They simply refuse to believe Hebrews 1 and 2. Or John 17 where Jesus clearly said, Glorify me with the Glory I HAD with you before the foundation of the world. Phil 2 explain why Jesus left Glory and humbled Himself for the obedience of death for our sin. Man alone cannot take away his own sin, much less the sin of the whole world, however God made flesh did.

---kathr4453 on 2/16/16


Jesus is not eternal.
---David8318 on 2/10/16


Jesus has many names, each describing an aspect of His Character, or describing a duty of His as the Son of God. Yet, there is only one Spirit within those names.

Luk_23:46 . . . he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit . . .
Rom 8:9 . . . the Spirit of Christ . . .
1Pet 1:11 . . . the Spirit of Christ . . .

Jesus = Savior
Word = Jesus
God = Word

God is eternal = Jesus is eternal, though his human flesh body is not eternal. Yet, His risen Spiritual body is eternal.
---aservant on 2/15/16


David, you have a lot of trouble understanding the nature and character of God. I believe like so many you go back and forward believing that everyone is just plain wrong. That we are fools for bringing the nature and character of God the way we do. But here is what it says to those who don't understand the nature and character of God:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
God the Father is mentioned in Scripture, God the Son is also mentioned just like the Spirit of God. Your mind has to open up and that is the work of God.
---Luke on 2/15/16


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Well thats a contradiction in terms...If Jesus "died", then he is not eternal.
---David8318 on 2/10/16


The Word = The Son as Spirit = God = Spirit is eternal

Jesus = The Son as human = God = flesh is not eternaL

Jesus died in his human flesh, and was raised in a Spiritual body

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.
---aservant on 2/13/16


//So what is any church's opinion when compared to God's Word?//

About the same as the false trinitarian verse at 1 John 5:7.

Contrary to your opinion, the false addition to 1 Jo.5:7 was not "breathed" by God. This false trinitarian insertion 'the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one' was inserted into Greek texts from the 15th century, mainly only as a marginal reference. It is not found in early Greek manuscripts.

Even Platonising Early Church Fathers during the Arian controveries during the 2nd-3rd centuries did not quote it, simply because it wasn't there in the text.

Like the trinity dogma, the apostate trinitarian insertion at 1 Jo.5:7 is false.
---David8318 on 2/13/16


//And what is Jehovah's greatest desire in the world?// MarkEaton.

Considering Philippians chapter 2, I couldn't agree more.

Phil.2:9, "Therefore God exalted him [Jesus] to the highest place".

Everyone should acknowledge Jesus as as "Lord" (Kurios) but its "all to the Glory of God the Father".

How does the trinity explain Almighty God Jesus being exalted to a higher place? If they're equal, the Father would not have needed to do this to the Son. Do you deny the Father exalted the Son to a higher place?

Do you deny recognising the Son to the 'Glory of the God the Father'?

Absolutely, it was Jehovah's desire to 'exalt his son'!
---David8318 on 2/13/16


\\1 John 5:7 is the famous trinitarian spurious verse which even the Catholic church now recognises as false. So what is any church's opinion when compared to God's Word?\\

The Orthodox and other churches of the East accept this verse (called the Johannine comma) as being authentic.

It doesn't matter to us WHAT the Roman Catholic--or JWs--say about it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/13/16


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//But you believe in the same contradiction of terms// MarkEaton,

How do you work that out Mark? I believe Jesus had a beginning and died for our sins (Col.1:15,20). A death necessary to redeem sinful humans. Thus, Jesus is not eternal. The antichrist trinity teaches Jesus' is eternal, yet adherents will also say he died.

You confuse what is meant by God being eternal with those who are given everlasting life. Yes the 144K will have immortality in heaven (1Cor.15:53, Re.14:1,3). Also, millions of the 'Great Crowd' of 'other sheep' will enjoy everlasting life on earth (Jo.10:16, Re.7:9). But their living eternally in heaven or earth doesn't mean they are eternal in the same way God is.
---David8318 on 2/13/16


1 John 5:7 is the famous trinitarian spurious verse which even the Catholic church now recognises as false. So what is any church's opinion when compared to God's Word?
---David8318 on 2/12/16

2 Tim 3:16 (ISV) All Scripture is God-breathed . . . , (which includes 1 John 5:7).

Rom 3:4 . . . let God be true, but every man a liar . . .

Tit 1:2 . . . which God, that cannot lie . . .

Heb 6:18 . . . impossible for God to lie . . .

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM the way, THE TRUTH

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
---aservant on 2/12/16


These Scripture refute many things said here:

Joh 14:9 . . . he that hath seen me hath seen the Father . . .

Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

Joh 17:22 . . . as we are one:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God . . .

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person . . .
---aservant on 2/12/16


Trav said, "Why waste your cultish catholic time here? You bring no meat/scripture. Debate minus any scripture and contention is your table fare. Your wine is vinegar.
Why don't you hang with your own."


I quote Scripture when appropriate. Here is a warning!

Matt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, Raca, is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, You fool! will be in danger of the fire of hell.


I'm praying for you,
Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/12/16


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The Father and Son are equal... The Trinity is based on Scripture// samuelbb7.

Is.9:6 is speaking of a "prince", a son. A prophetic reference to the 'son of God'. Almighty God is not a 'prince'!

Matt.11:27, 'All things are delivered unto me of my Father...' If Jesus is equal to God, wouldn't he already have what is being delivered?

John 5:23, 'That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father...', proof they are seperate individuals.

None of the scriptures Sambb7 quotes speak of 3 persons. So how Sambb7 arrives at "trinity" must be through either pre-concieved ideas of pre-christian pagan trinities or by theological gymnastics.

Where is the word "trinity"?
---David8318 on 2/12/16


Well thats a contradiction in terms...If Jesus "died", then he is not eternal.
---David8318 on 2/10/16

But you believe in the same contradiction of terms.

You believe in life everlasting, eternal life, with God. The 144,000 will be in paradise with God forever.

But only after you die, because "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" and Scripture does not lie.

According to your literature, Jehovah is a Spirit. How did Jehovah fulfill this verse:

Gem 3:14 "They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden:
---Mark_Eaton on 2/12/16


Jesus is the "son of God", and subordinate to his Father Jehovah God, before and after his resurrection
---David8318 on 2/11/16

And what is Jehovah's greatest desire in the world?

Phil 2:10-11 "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"

And how are you Witnesses doing this? By denying the deity of Jesus. Denying that Jesus is Kurios, or Adonai.

Do you deny the supremacy and authority of Jesus or do you affirm it?

Do you deny or affirm that the Cosmos and every person are redeemed by and belong to Jesus?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/12/16


David while living on earth as a human. He was subordinate.

The Father and Son are equal.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

The Trinity is based on Scripture. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/11/16


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//I came down from heaven// servant, quoting John 6:38.

No one douts Jesus came down from heaven. Jesus existed in heaven long before coming to earth.

Jo.10:18, 'I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again'- NIV.

Jesus had authority from his Father to lay down his life, that was his fathers will (Heb.10:7). Jesus was sinless when he died and had complete faith in his God that he would be resurrected back to life. He therefore had authority from his Father to recieve life. Jesus was not "two thirds" alive somewhere else. That would make his death & resurrection meaningless.

1 John 5:7 is the famous trinitarian spurious verse which even the Catholic church now recognises as false.
---David8318 on 2/12/16


David, I can't even talk to you. ...or any of the finer points of Christianity.
---Monk_Brendan on 2/11/16

Why waste your cultish catholic time here? You bring no meat/scripture. Debate minus any scripture and contention is your table fare. Your wine is vinegar.
Why don't you hang with your own. You have nothing in common with anyone scripturally. Strangely you like stirring the protestant pot and getting burned by the boiling.
Pro_22:10 Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out, yea, strife and reproach shall cease.
Pro_18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
(Every time you post)
---Trav on 2/11/16


John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 10:18 No man taketh it (i.e., my life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The Word = human Jesus.

John 17:24 . . . for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
---aservant on 2/11/16


//the Second Person of the Trinity// Monk Brendan.

Show me scripture where the Bible says Jesus is "the Second person of the trinity". BCV please!

If you cannot show me scripture to suuport your belief (and you won't be able to), then I agree, we have nothing in common to talk about. I post replies to highlight your contradictions and pagan identity. Either Jesus died for our sins, or he is eternal and didn't die. Belief in the pagan trinity forces you to believe Jesus is eternal and therefore didn't die, a teaching which is antichrist (1Jo.4:2,3).

Jesus is the "son of God", and subordinate to his Father Jehovah God, before and after his resurrection (Mt.24:36, Jo.5:19, 1Cor.15:24, Rev.3:12,13).
---David8318 on 2/11/16


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David said, "Jesus wasn't the 3rd person of the pagan trinity, there is no such teaching in the Bible. Jesus had to die in order for his God to resurrect him. Jesus wasn't God or a part of God existing somewhere whilst watching his flesh die. Jesus died... was out of existence for parts of 3 days. Fully reliant on his Father to bring him back to life. Thats the greatest expression of faith in the Universe. Its that act of sacrifice and faith which releases us from eternal sin and death."

David, I can't even talk to you. If you believe that Jesus is not the Second Person of the Trinity, I'm not going to argue about whether He rose from the dead, or any of the finer points of Christianity.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/11/16


"Which is correct, and why?" Bolivar, if you are referring to the grammatical rules of capitalization in writing, pronouns are only capitalized when they start a sentence, with the exception of 'I', which is always capitalized. Concerning the capitalization of pronouns in reference to the Father, I do this to show that the pronoun does in fact reference Him as opposed to man. In my opinion it's a matter of choice, without correctness or incorrectness either way, apart from the aforementioned rule.
---josef on 2/10/16


//just as Father God is eternal, so is His Son... Jesus. True, He died...// Monk Brendan.

Well thats a contradiction in terms. Monk Brendan believes Jesus is eternal and yet at the same time "died". If Jesus "died", then he is not eternal.

Jesus wasn't the 3rd person of the pagan trinity, there is no such teaching in the Bible. Jesus had to die in order for his God to resurrect him. Jesus wasn't God or a part of God existing somewhere whilst watching his flesh die. Jesus died... was out of existence for parts of 3 days. Fully reliant on his Father to bring him back to life. Thats the greatest expression of faith in the Universe. Its that act of sacrifice and faith which releases us from eternal sin and death.
---David8318 on 2/10/16


\\Which is correct, and why?\\

Either is correct in English.

The KJV had all pronouns referring to God in lower case, except when the first word of a sentence.

This convention was changed in the RSV.

There are some languages, such as modern Hebrew and Arabic, that do not have capital letters.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/10/16


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David said, " Jesus is not eternal. Jesus died to release us from sin and death. Without Jesus' death there is no hope for anyone (Ro.5:18)."

Forgive me, David, but just as Father God is eternal, so is His Son, who became incarnate in the flesh and was called Jesus. True, He died, but He rose again, and will come again at the Last Judgment. The third Person of the Holy Trinity is the Holy Spirit, Who together with the Father and Son is worshiped and glorified.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/9/16


I have noticed something about these blogs.

Some peiple use capitle letters when talking about God, such as He said this.

Some peiple use small letters when talking about God such as he said this.

Which is correct, and why?
---Bolivar_T._Shagnasty on 2/9/16


David, the LAST ADAM, is a life giving spirit, so says 1st Corinthians 15. The first Adam was a life giving soul. The first was earthly, fleshly, the Last HEAVENLY. The first Adam was CREATED, the last WAS NOT.
---kathr4453 on 2/9/16


The Gospel of John was the last book written by the Apostle John. It includes something written no where else.

I think John included Chapter 1 because the Holy Spirit wanted him to write it, and because John knew that Jesus was so much more than how Jesus had been remembered in the other Gospels.

John tell us at the start of his Gospel, that the Word of God was in the beginning with God, the Word was God, and through Him everything was made that was made. The Word then became flesh and became known as the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

I know from this passage that Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is the Word of God, Jesus is God, and Jesus was with God (the Father) in the beginning.

You draw your own conclusions.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/9/16


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Jesus is not eternal. Jesus died to release us from sin and death. Without Jesus' death there is no hope for anyone (Ro.5:18).

The Bible calls Jesus the 'Last Adam'- 1Cor.15:45. Both the first and last "Adams" were not eternal. The death of the first Adam sold us into sin and death (Ro.5:12). The death of the last Adam releases us from condemnation to sin and death (Ro.5:15).

Jesus is 'the son of God', the 'only begotten'. (Jo.1:18,34).

Jehovah (YHWH- Yahweh) is the only eternal God (Ps.83:18 KJV).
---David8318 on 2/9/16


JESUS is and has always been eternal. From everlasting to everlasting he has been GOD.

One GOD three persons.

The term son was adopted to help us understand. He also refers to himself as the son of man. But these are just terms to help us get a glimpse of the nature of GOD.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/9/16


I think this question, which has come up before is asking, " was the WORD" who IS GOD, a SON, before His incarnation.

Or another way to,say this, ...was Jesus "begotten" of the Father sometime before His incarnation?

Before that can be answered, one must define what " begotten" means, and exactly WHEN it took place. Then ask, was the Holy Spirit also "begotten".

It depends on one's understanding of the Trinity. Do you believe in 3 Gods in one person, or ONE GOD, in three persons?

THIS DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU. Hebrews....WHAT DAY WAS THAT? When did DAYS begin? Was there such a thing as a "DAY" before Genesis 1?
---kathr4453 on 2/6/16


Cluny, okay, I respect that.
---john1944 on 11/23/15


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\\Cluny, whar did you talk about with God?
---john1944 on 11/22/\\

That's a secret between God and me, OK?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/22/15


Cluny, whar did you talk about with God?
---john1944 on 11/22/15


\\Do you think there is a God?
---john1944 on 11/21/15\\

No, I don't think there's a God.

I KNOW there is. In fact, I spoke with Him before I logged on.

Why the question?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/22/15


John1944 ask, "Does God view Himself as a Trinity, or is it just a human construct?"

Yes, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), views himself as a trinity.

See, gen 1:26, 3:22, 11:7-8, Isa 6:8-10, 9:6, 10:21, and 48:16-17, Mk 1:9-10, and Jn 14:16.

Also, here is the definition of the Trinity:

"In the being of God (essence) there exist Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are co equal, co eternal, and co existing, 3 distinct persons. The Father is not The Son, The Son is not The Father, and The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor is he the Son.
---john9346 on 11/22/15


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Cluny, I'll just take your word for it. Do you think there is a God?
---john1944 on 11/21/15


\\Does God view Himself as a Trinity, or is it just a human construct?
---john1944 on 11/20/15\\

This is how God has revealed Himself. Oneness, which is historically Sabellian Modalism, is the human concept.

So are Arianism and Pneumomachism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/15


The Jews knew only ONE part of God (the creator), we have all three parts

2Co 11:2
I feel a divine jealousy for you, for I betrothed you to Christ to present you as a pure bride to her ONE husband.
---faithforfaith on 11/21/15


Does God view Himself as a Trinity, or is it just a human construct?
---john1944 on 11/20/15


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The Trinity has always existed. Jesus is GOD and has always existed.

Yes.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/19/15


I am completely satisfied to have no doubt that the first name of "THE CHRIST" was JESUS.

Some people will doubt HISTORICAL Jesus. The Jews called Him Yeshua son of Jehovah. At any rate, He was the "Word of God" that became FLESH. In Revelation it says that He is called by the name of...

....the Word of God".

Moses suffered for Him...

Heb 11:26 He considered abuse suffered for the Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked to the reward.
---faithforfaith on 11/18/15


"Is Jesus Christ the eternal Son of God? In other words, was Jesus the Son of God before the foundation of the world?" Yes, as the "Word of God", made tangible to man in the person of Jesus.
---Josef on 11/18/15


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