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Decided Books Are Canonical

In none of the books of the NT occurs a list of what should be in it.

We know there are writings of the apostles that did not make there, such as St. Paul's lost letter to Laodicea.

What group of people do you think decided what books were canonical? When? How?

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 ---Cluny on 11/29/15
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Augustine states clearly theJews did not accept the Apocrypha.


"During the same time also those things were done which are written in the book of Judith, which, indeed, the Jews are said not to have received into the canon of the scriptures ... And the reckoning of their dates is found, not in the Holy Scriptures which are called canonical, but in others, among which, are also the books of the Maccabees. These are held as canonical, not, by the Jews, but by the Church,"

"The Jews do not have this Scripture which is called Maccabees, as they do the law and the prophets, to which the Lord bears testimony as to his witnesses."
---john9346 on 12/14/15


Cluny,
Just want to remind you of the following:




"Those who do not have good arguments or verses for their views. Often resort to juvenile remarks, snide comments and personal attacks."
---john9346 on 12/13/15


Nicole,

For the third time "A Sect of Jews refused the 7 books because they were not written in Hebrew."

Please provide the name of sect??

The Jewish Historians Josephus, Philo, and Aquila all state clearly the 7 books listed in the Council of Trent were not apart of "Scripture."


Remember, the authors of those books never state, "Inspiration." or "Divine Authority." for their writings.

Again, what is the name of the Jewish Sect that you stated, "A Sect of Jews refused the 7 books because they were not written in Hebrew."
---john on 12/13/15


\\ Honica\\

john9346, if you can't spell a word properly, it's a good sign you don't know what you're talking about when you discuss it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/13/15


Please provide name of JewishSect?--john9346

Thanks for answering YES you believe the Jewish people who celebrate Hanukkah.

If you believe in Hanukkah and the Jewish people are stating that the events in Maccabees are correct, who are you to disagree?

So YOU need to name the Jew Sects who DISAGREES because Normal Jewish people agree with Maccabees since they celebrate Hanukkah.

Tell us John, who are these Jewish Sects who DON'T celebrate Hanukkah since according to you they doesn't believe the Hanukkah account in Maccabees?

Strange Jews.

I don't have or know such Jews Sects?

In other words, Normal Jews agree with all 7 books in the OT. Its your Jews Sects who don't celebrate Hanukkah.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/15




Nicole,

First, the blog is relative to the bible not Honica.

Even without the book of maccabees we would still know Honica is an Authentic Event simply because of Historical Sources.

The issue the Council of Trent has is that the book of Maccabees never claimed, "Inspiration." or "Divine Authority."

Please provide name of JewishSect?
---john9346 on 12/13/15


Okay since John9346 won't answer me, ANYONE who has a 66 book Bible can answer me.

If you are not afraid?

Lets debate it.

Do you believe in the Historical event of Hanukkah in which the Jewish people all over the world Cerebrate still today????????????????

Wait, this is a 2 part question and only for those who say yes (obviously).

If YES, and it is in the book of Maccabees, why don't you have the book of Maccabees?

Okay a 3 part question.

If yes, why do you believe since it isn't in Your Bible?

Come on, Please someone?

StrongAxe, Micha, Trey, or Samuel?
Don't let me down, PLEASE.

JUST curious, that's all.
:D
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/12/15


Cluny said, "Yes. Look up the history of the LXX."

I have and a couple things:

1. There are no Historical Evidence for a cannon of the Septuagint.

2. The name "Septuagint." derives from a legend concerning 70 or 72 elders who suppose to have completed it in 72 days.

3. All of the manuscripts are found in the Fourth and Fifth Century with Christian Origins.
---john on 12/10/15


Please provide the name of sect?--john9346 on 12/10/15

I promise I will answer you if you answer my question first.

Since I asked you first.

Because I believe you know you are in a trapped with your belief in an event and refusal of the texts that tells of the event.

I bet you didn't even know the story of Hanukkah was in book of Maccabees?

Jews represent their history by reenacting them. Telling their children what happened in the past to make history real to them TODAY.

Do you believe Hanukkah happened in history?

Do you believe the Jewish people today who celebrate Hanukkah do so because it exactly took placed?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/15


Nicole said, "A Sect of Jews refused the 7 books because they were not written in Hebrew."


Please provide the name of sect?

Both Palestinian and Alexandrian Jews always knew there were only 22 books (Law, Prophets, and Psalms) not one contained the Apocryphal Books.

Many Jewish Historians attest to this fact over and over again even Augustine.
---john9346 on 12/10/15




The history of God and His redemption of man and the history of His chosen people cross paths but are not the same.
The Bible reveals much of the former and only that which cross paths in the latter.
The Maccabean era was not known for their prophets, nor their references to the messiah.
Even Esther was debated as either mere history or God-inspired.
Let's not confuse Jewish history with scripture.
Josephus' works are another example.
---micha9344 on 12/10/15


John, Sir I believe you mean Origen/Origen Adamantius who lived in the 3rd Century?

A Sect of Jews refused the 7 books because they were not written in Hebrew.

Most Jews have all 46 books.

Do you believe in Hanukkah?

If yes, so do many Jewish people.

If you do believe in the story you have one problem Sir.

Hanukkah is in the book of Maccabees. One of the 7 books not in your OT of your Bible.

So where do you think the story of Hanukkah came from?
Festival of Lights?

If you don't want to pick up a Catholic Bible just google Book of Maccabees and Hanukkah and the story will appear for you to read.

Think about it Sir.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/15


\\I asked you because do you know there are know evidence substantiating this claim??
---john9346 on 12/9/15
\\

Yes. Look up the history of the LXX.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/15


Well Cluny,

I asked you because do you know there are know evidence substantiating this claim??
---john9346 on 12/9/15


Nicole,

Ma'am, please pay attention,

Jerome who was a Hebrew Scholar among the Palestinian Jews did not list the Apocryphal Books "Authoritative and Cannonical."

Neither did Origend who was also a HebrewScholar.
---john on 12/9/15


\\Cluny states, "Is this why the Jewish scholars of Alexandria translated them from Hebrew into Greek some two centuries before Christ as part of the LXX--because they didn't believe them inspired or authoritative?"

Could you explain your statement??
---john9346 on 12/8/15\\

I'll be glad to, if you tell me what you don't understand about it.

It seems clear enough to me--or do you not recognize LXX as the standard abbreviation of Septuagint, the translation of the OT made by 70 Jewish scholars in Alexandria?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/15


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//Nicole, Again, Jerome had all ready separated the extra books from the rest of Sacred Scripture.//

St Jerome lived in the 4 Century when he translated all 73 Books of the Bible.

Trent was in the 16th Century.

Your Church history is all over the map.
At least get the right folks living within the same century the Council is held.

//Trent had to define in this way because many RCC were leaving.---john9346 on 12/7/15

Those Catholics were called Protestants. Because they were protesting against the RCC.

So allowing yourself to be called a Protestant is admitting you are 2nd.

To Protest something is to say the other has to be first/established.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/15


Cluny states, "Is this why the Jewish scholars of Alexandria translated them from Hebrew into Greek some two centuries before Christ as part of the LXX--because they didn't believe them inspired or authoritative?"

Could you explain your statement??
---john9346 on 12/8/15


\\In the Jewish Cannon, the Jews never recognized these 7 books as "Inspired." "Authoritative."\\

Is this why the Jewish scholars of Alexandria translated them from Hebrew into Greek some two centuries before Christ as part of the LXX--because they didn't believe them inspired or authoritative?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/15


Nicole,

Again, Jerome had all ready separated the extra books from the rest of Sacred Scripture.

Trent had to define in this way because many RCC were leaving.

In the Jewish Cannon, the Jews never recognized these 7 books as "Inspired." "Authoritative."

Jerome a Hebrew Scholar knew this while translating this is why he made a distinction the 7 books from the rest.
---john9346 on 12/7/15


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Thank you.
It's title is called: 'Decree concerning the CANONICAL SCRIPTURES'
It names all 73 books and states no one TO CHANGE IT as Martin Luther and others since you only have 66 books.

Proves the cannons were from the Apostles. Here are some of it's proclamation:

"..the purity itself of the Gospel be preserved in the Church, which (Gospel), before promised through the prophets in the holy Scriptures, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, first promulgated with His own mouth, and then commanded to be preached by His Apostles to every creature,...as having been dictated, either by Christ's own word of mouth, or by the Holy Ghost, and preserved in the Catholic Church by a continuous succession..."
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/7/15


Nicole states, "You are wrong. The Council of Trent reconfirms our Creed."

Please read the fourth session of the Council of Trent cannons and decrees and you will have your answer.

The 7 books added to make 73 books were added in response to the reformation.

Also, Jerome when he translated the Scriptures separated these 7 books from the rest of Sacred Scripture.

If the rcc always existed, then there would have been know need for Trent because everyone would have been in Unanimous Agreement of which is not the case.
---john9346 on 12/7/15


3. the rcc didn't define the bible until 1546 (Council of Trent)---john9346

Now we are talking.

You are wrong. The Council of Trent reconfirms our Creed.

The Council of Trent is written down.

Plus, you must have read it if you claim it defines the Bible.

So please cite in the Council's meeting what you claim.

Because I believe you just made it up, or you didn't understand what you read.

Direct quote for your citation please.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/6/15


Nicole,

1. The apostles quotes/refers to each others writings.

2. the rcc and eoc didn't exist until 1054 AD.

3. the rcc didn't define the bible until 1546 (Council of Trent)

4. If one of these churches gave the world the bible then we would expect tosee all of there doctrines/dogmas taught there in.
---john9346 on 12/6/15


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john9346, what is EOC? But the RCC/Orthodox is easy to show you.

Go to your Bible and open it.
Read the lists of books in your index.

Index is part of your Tradition because St. Peter, Paul, John or James didn't care about putting the list of books in Alphabet order.

Nor did they realize books would be arranged according to some of the letters they wrote.

Or do you believe we have all of the letters written by Paul? Course not. Many of them were lost.

Next goggle Martin Luther and Henry the VIII. Notice how both of them were Catholic and LEFT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

So common sense will tell you if the RCC has a 73 book BIBLE so did Father Luther (He was a RC Priest you know) and King Henry the VIII.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/6/15


Cluny sir,

I challenge you to show from "Sacred Scripture." and from history/tradition that the EOC gave the world the bible??
---john9346 on 12/6/15


As posted in another blog it was Paul and John who canonized the New Testament. It was John who finalized the New Testament. (John 21:25 and at the end he finalized it by saying "Amen") John was aware of the gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

In essence, it was the Jewish people who were commissioned by God to protect the bible. (Romans 3:1-2)

It is now the responsibility of the true church of God to protect the scriptures ("the church in the wilderness" Acts 7:38)
---Steveng on 11/30/15


\\although the scriptures were compiled by people. \\

And just who were these people, Geraldine?

Note carefully I'm not asking who WROTE the various NT books, but rather who were the people who COMPILED them and declared that these and none other were inspired and canonical.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/15


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A personal relationship with God is direct and not to be sought through others, although the scriptures were compiled by people. Our trust is not in the men who wrote them but in God who inspired them.
---Geraldine on 11/30/15


Can anyone anyone you know decide otherwise today? Instead of wasting time on silly questions like these, one would do well to study the canons (66 books) of Scripture, as "Divinely" given to anyone seeking after God's Truth, & thereby get understanding & wisdom from God instead of one's vain religion.
---Leon on 11/30/15


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