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Did Mary Remain A Virgin

Did Mary remain a virgin until death, even though she was married to Joseph?

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 ---Jed on 12/4/15
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They hated Wycliffe so much they actually dug up his bones and burned them.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/15


Not all reformers were murdered by the will of the Popes. Just some of them. As any History will show is true.
Even the RCC admits it executed them as heretics. They just do not call it murder. They just needed to have them killed to protect the flock and their money flow.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/17/15


Luke, doesn't it bother you to say things that have no basis in reality, such as your claim that the Reformers were murdered?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/17/15


Luke said, "The Church had them blind until God opened their eyes and they got to see the Truth which was right in front of them....but of course the RCC was very powerful and many like them lost their lives. Yes, they were murdered."

Luke, Martin Luther died of a heart attack in 1546.

Citizens who refused to accept Calvinism were expelled from Geneva or, in extreme cases, executed as heretics. Calvin died of overwork in 1564.

Zwingli received a mortal wound on the battlefield of Kappel 1531. True, he was killed by a Catholic, but it was far from murder.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 12/17/15


Cluny, you said after I said
"I judge what I have seen"

"Jesus said NOT to judge on the basis of appearances. Did you know that?"
yet you turn around and judge Luther, Calvin and Zwingli.
But let me remind you this people were Catholic. The Church had them blind until God opened their eyes and they got to see the Truth which was right in front of them. The didn't want to leave the Church, they wanted to reform it, but of course the RCC was very powerful and many like them lost their lives. Yes, they were murdered.
---Luke on 12/17/15




\\However, all this is explained away by champions of the catholic faith who can certainly make arguments.
---yon6878 on 12/15/15\\

Like Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/15


\\I judge what I have seen\\

Jesus said NOT to judge on the basis of appearances. Did you know that?

\\ and what I have done myself as a once Catholic. \\

If you worshipped Mary or anyone else other than God, it was DESPITE what you were taught.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/15


Catholics teach she did. But the New Testament teaching is that Joseph did not know her until Jesus was born, and the Bible speaks of Jesus having brothers. However, all this is explained away by champions of the catholic faith who can certainly make arguments.
---yon6878 on 12/15/15


Throughout his life Luther held that Mary's perpetual virginity was an article of faith for all Christians.

"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a Virgin."

John Calvin said, "Helvidius has shown himself too ignorant, in saying that Mary had several sons,..." Calvin translated "brothers" in this context to mean cousins or relatives.

Zwingli: "I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin." Zwingli used Exodus 4:22 to defend the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/15


Any of us can worship somebody or something, simply by giving that person or thing too much of our attention, which all belongs with God and how He is ruling us in His own peace in our hearts >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Matthew 1:25 says Joseph "did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son".

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

Growing up with brothers and sisters "could" be included in how Jesus has gone through things which we have gone through.
---Bill on 12/15/15




Nicole, you said,
"Because they are NOT worshipping Mary. You need to stop judging and allow Jesus to be God and not you.'
Nicole, they are worshipping Mary and the saints all over the world. They pray to her and ask for her help. I do not stop Jesus from been God. I judge what I have seen and what I have done myself as a once Catholic.


"Catholics have always told Protestants we don't worship Mary."
I know you have, but all you are doing is denying a true fact. Just admit the truth. The truth will set you free.
---Luke on 12/15/15


Cluny, you said:"If Mariolatry happens in the Catholic church (or Orthodox, for that matter), it is DESPITE the teaching of these churches, and not because of it."

Cluny, your churches do the same as Israel. God commanded Israel not to worship idols, yet through history they broke God's commandment. The same holds true at your churches, the members worship Mary and the saints, they even deny they do. But their actions cannot hide from the eyes of God. They idol worship just like Israel. In Mexico there is a new Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine, millions go on their knees for miles praying to her, and ask for miracles, a stone statue that cannot talk, move, love, or answer prayers.
And Jesus? He is nowhere to be found.
---Luke on 12/15/15


The belief that Mary was sinless and that she remained a virgin her whole life, is in and of itself, Mary worship and idolatry. Yes, the Catholic church holds her in higher esteem than Jesus Christ himself, even if they deny it. The evidence is on these blogs.
---Jed on 12/15/15


\\But all the other Catholics who do, give witness that they do worship Mary. Maybe the Catholic Church has nothing down commanding you to worship Mary, but they sure do not stop the people from doing it.\\

If Mariolatry happens in the Catholic church (or Orthodox, for that matter), it is DESPITE the teaching of these churches, and not because of it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/15


Maybe the Catholic Church has nothing down commanding you to worship Mary, but they sure do not stop the people from doing it.---Luke on 12/14/15

Because they are NOT worshipping Mary. You need to stop judging and allow Jesus to be God and not you.

Catholics have always told Protestants we don't worship Mary.

It's you Protestants who can't find it in the CCC proving what you claim.
You just want us to take your lying words.

People stand for Judges and the President when he enters a room: Worshipping?

Protestants KNEEL when the Queens and Kings of England entered the room: Worshipping?

Watch PBS movies of people on their knees.

Maybe you need to read Matthew 7:1-2
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/14/15


Luke said, "The one most important reason why I left the Catholic Church is because they are idol worshippers. I know. I witnessed that all my life in Texas."

You must not have been paying attention in Catechism Class. The Church does not worship Mary. The teaching of the Church is that we must not worship Mary or the other saints. They are venerated, because of their sanctity, but our WORSHIP belongs to God alone.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 12/14/15


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Nicole, you like most other Catholics that come on line always say you do not worship Mary. But all the other Catholics who do, give witness that they do worship Mary. Maybe the Catholic Church has nothing down commanding you to worship Mary, but they sure do not stop the people from doing it.
In fact the Church puts out the idols of saints and Mary, and even have a kneeling area mostly found in the front of the saint so that people can get on their knees and ask the idols for some miracle.
The one most important reason why I left the Catholic Church is because they are idol worshippers. I know. I witnessed that all my life in Texas.
---Luke on 12/14/15


Mary did not remain a virgin.
Psa. 69:8, I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
Matt. 1:24,Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25. And knew her not TILL she had brought forth her FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name Jesus
Matt 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56. And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
---michael_e on 12/14/15


It is Christ who is due our worship.---trey on 12/12/15

WE AGREE.

Now can you all stop claiming me worship Mary because we don't!


It's you all who are going in circles in this blogs not us.
We just point out some of your strange logic and you tangle yourselves more trying to prove your beliefs.

We use your own Profess rules on you. Do the same for us.

Act like Christians and stop judging other Christians (even some have the nerve to claim Catholics are not Christians).

Can you all ALLOW Jesus to do the judging as GOD for once?

Or you all just can't wait for HIS RETURN and have decided to sit in HIS CHAIR yourself?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/15


Let me ask all of you this question:

Do we all agree that Mary, the mother of our Savior, was highly favored, highly blessed, and must have been a very special person for the Lord of Glory to choose her to be the mother of the Christ?

Let me now ask all of you to imagine how it must have felt for Mary to watch her son be beaten, spit upon, mocked and crucified.

Thank God for this time of the year when we can celebrate the birth of our Savior! Let me also say, "Thank God for the finished and complete work of Christ upon the cross!!!"

It is Christ who is due our worship.
---trey on 12/12/15


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///With all due respect to everyone's right to their beliefs...why in the world would anyone want to complicate the Bible by adding that Mary was sinless from the womb. The Bible does not say that anywhere. Mary found favor with God...that says she was very committed to serving God...Jesus never said to teach all that rigamarole and no one needs it to be saved. I can't see where it has anything to do with New Testament Christianity. God Bless---Darlene_1 on 12/10/15///

Darlene: You're absolutely correct. That nonsense (rigamarole) about Mary being sinless at birth is a religious lie spread by the devil & is propagated by silly people who are deceived. No where in Scripture is such foolishness supported.
---Leon on 12/12/15


Good point Jed thank you.

Also you are correct leon.

2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and overthrow the faith of some.

Philemon 3:11
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

1Corithians 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption:

Act 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/12/15


Leon said, "Monk man: Mother Mary's body is still asleep in her grave awaiting the Second Coming of Lord Jesus."

Where is her body? Not in the tomb in Ephesus, and not in the tomb in the Kidron Valley. Both of those are only shrines.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/15


///...How does one complete the course of one's earthly life? They die. Mary died (i.e. her soul left her body). Her soul went to heaven, and her body, bound to corruption was laid in a grave. God then assumed the body up to heaven to be glorified and reunited with her soul. [HUH???!!!]...---Monk_Brendan on 12/11/15

Monk man: Mother Mary's body is still asleep in her grave awaiting the Second Coming of Lord Jesus.
---Leon on 12/11/15


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What would even be the purpose of Mary remaining a virgin her whole life? Obviously, the purpose of her remaining a virgin until Jesus' birth was to prove that Jesus was indeed conceived by the Holy Spirit. But what would be proved by her remaining a virgin after Jesus' birth? Is that supposed to somehow prove her holiness? Does the thought of her having marital relations somehow defile her or degrade her righteousness? To the contrary! Marital relations are a sacred act that is not only sanctioned and blessed by God, but also commanded by God. For a married couple to abstain from marital relations and not consummate the marriage would be far more defiling and abominable than engaging in marital intercourse could ever be.
---Jed on 12/11/15


Does this make sense, boys and girls?
---Cluny on 12/10/15

Please explain the orthodox doctrine of "Ancestral Sin".

I think you will find it is very much like my understanding.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/15


Does this make sense, boys and girls?
---Cluny on 12/10/15

When did say that every time you read the word flesh in the Bible it means sin nature?

But, if sarx (flesh) does not mean sin nature, please explain what it does mean in these verses?

Rom 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells, for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find."

Rom 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit"

Rom 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/15


Nicole quoted, "the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory."

"...Having completed the course of her earthly life..."

How does one complete the course of one's earthly life? They die. Mary died (i.e. her soul left her body). Her soul went to heaven, and her body, bound to corruption was laid in a grave. God then assumed the body up to heaven to be glorified and reunited with her soul.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 12/11/15


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If "sarx" means "sin nature", then the Greek of 2 Cor 12:7 means that satan sent a messenger to torment St. Paul in his "sin nature."

Does this make sense, boys and girls?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/15


Monk, the dogma by Pope Pius XII states different.


...When Pope Pius XII dogmatically declared the Assumption of Mary, he left the question open." They cite the following from Munificentissimus Deus:

by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.

//Note the Pope didn't say 'after her death was assumed' but used many words to say "..after completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed."

Easier to say Death.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/15


The majority of statements recently are not backed up by
Scripture.

1. All are sinners. Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

But the Bible does not explain how Jesus is both human and GOD. So we cannot say we know what GOD has not revealed.

But the doctrine of original sin that the RCC teaches make sin inherited. Which is not found in the Bible either.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/11/15


\\Simply, the word flesh or sarx in Greek.

Paul uses it over and over in his letters but what does it mean? It means sin nature. \\

The Greek word "sarx" never meant "sin nature."

Otherwise, John 1 says, "The Word was made sin nature," which is garbage.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/15


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Nicole said, "But in Tradition it is said Mary didn't die but was casted into a deep sleep.' She was Assumed into Heaven."

Nicole, Mary did die. the teaching of the Catholic Church is that Mary died, and at some short time after that, her body was taken up to heaven, glorified, and united with her soul.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 12/10/15


Where does the Bible use the expression "sin nature"...Where does the Bible say it was passed on to Jesus?
---Cluny on 12/10/15

Simply, the word flesh or sarx in Greek.

Paul uses it over and over in his letters but what does it mean? It means sin nature.

Makes these verses read a little differently:

1 Pet 4:1-2 "Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/10/15


You're coming VERY CLOSE to the heresy of Pelegianism here.
---Cluny on 12/10/15

Please explain to us the Orthodox doctrine of "Ancestral Sin"?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/10/15


Jesus was not sinless because His mother was sinless. ---Mark_Eaton on 12/10/15

Let's keep words simple.

I said Jesus' Body had to have no sin to sacrifice to His Father.

Remember Jesus is God who obtain a Body from Mary after permission given by Mary.

So, the Body given by Mary to Jesus needed to be pure without any stain of original sin.

Perfect Sacrifice for His Father.

Nothing is too good for God the Father is it?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/15


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With all due respect to everyone's right to their beliefs but why in the world would anyone want to complicate the Bible by adding that Mary was sinless from the womb. The Bible does not say that anywhere. Mary found favor with God,to me that says she was very commited to serving God following all God ordered in His Word the Old Testament. Jesus never said to teach all that rigamarole and no one needs it to be saved. I can't see where it has anything to do with New Testament Christianity. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 12/10/15


\\I see that the "sin nature" or blindness towards God and spiritual things was passed to Jesus. \\

Where does the Bible use the expression "sin nature"?

Where does the Bible say it was passed on to Jesus?

You're coming VERY CLOSE to the heresy of Pelegianism here.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/15


\\1) Based upon the Catholic Doctrine of Immaculate Conception, did Mary remain sinless her whole life?\\

As the Orthodox don't accept this doctrine, defined by Pius IX in the 1800s, I'll leave this alone.

\\2) If the answer to question 1 is "yes" then why did she die?\\

Good question. Here's the Orthodox answer:

She wanted to be as much like her Son as possible. She yielded up her soul to Him not in fear or pain or weakness, but in a transport of joyous love, akin to how she conceived Him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/15


If you don't believe Mary was SAVED at her conception and still had the Original sin then Jesus' Body was imperfect for His Sacrifice to God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/9/15

This is your doctrine, not mine.

I see that the "sin nature" or blindness towards God and spiritual things was passed to Jesus. What was not passed to Jesus was sin itself or any blame resulting from Adam's sin. Jesus could be tempted externally and internally, therefore Jesus was fully human which includes the sin nature.

But Jesus did not sin and Jesus knew no sin. This is because Jesus was fully God and God cannot sin. And this is why Believers IN CHRIST can live above sin.

Jesus was not sinless because His mother was sinless.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/10/15


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Never in the history of the human race has any married woman been able to keep her virginity for any short time. Human nature is what it is - and religion does not change human nature.
---Riolion on 12/10/15


Trey, Mary was Saved at her conception.
Mary was INFUSED with so much Grace that she did never sin.

Heard this before?:'BUT by the Grace of God THERE GOES I'.

As a 'Only Scripture' Man, Mary's death isn't in the Bible.

But in Tradition it is said Mary didn't die but was casted into a deep sleep'
She was Assumed into Heaven.

A feast day cerebrated on August 15th for Catholics.
The Assumption of the Virgin Mary.

So you are correct Trey in realizing that Mary shouldn't have died if she didn't commit any sins.

But according to your own logic, why did Jesus die?

Of course I know why but I am saying that God is in control no whether if a situation doesn't SEEM logical to us mere humans.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/15


Jesus and His Brothers and Sisters had the same mother,Mary,but not the same father because God was Christ's Father and Joseph was Mary's husband by whom she had the other children. The very fact the Bible says in Luke 2:7 And she gave birth to her "first" born,a son, means she had more than one child. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 12/10/15


Nicole, Monk, and/or Cluny,
help a brother out. I need a little bit of education on Catholic doctrine.
1) Based upon the Catholic Doctrine of Immaculate Conception, did Mary remain sinless her whole life?
2) If the answer to question 1 is "yes" then why did she die?

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

My belief is that only Christ is sinless, and that Mary was in need of a Savior just as much as the rest of us.
---trey on 12/9/15


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\\As far as Judah's brothers in Matthew 1 are concerned, those were actually his real brothers. They shared the same father.
\\

But not the same mother, which was the point I was making.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 12/9/15


How is that relevant then? I asked for an example from the New Testament of cousins being called brothers or sisters, since the claim was made that cousins were called brothers and sisters in Jesus' day. You gave an example of half brothers being called brothers. Which is exactly what Jesus' siblings were, since they didn't share the same father. In order for them to be brothers or sisters, they would have had to share the same mother.
---Jed on 12/9/15


Mark when I asked you if you understood was because you asked for a clarification on your understanding of what Immaculate Conception meant.

Even some of the Doctors of the Church disagreed if Mary is the Immaculate Conception.

I believe in reason and faith.

God is a reason and logical.

He isn't a God of chaos.

If you don't believe Mary was SAVED at her conception and still had the Original sin then Jesus' Body was imperfect for His Sacrifice to God.

To later I say IMPOSSIBLE.

God doesn't need our understanding to save us.
But He is Merciful in letting us know the Mystery of Salvation
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/9/15


\\I also think that a majority of the people on these blogs believe and accept these statements. \\

I've run into people on here who don't.

\\Our confusion continues to be the high veneration of Mary within the RCC verses the seemingly lack of veneration for Jesus.\\

If it happens, it's DESPITE the teaching of the Church.

As I've said on occasion, Marian doctrine can be properly understood ONLY within Christology.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/15


Do you understand?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/15

Please read my post on the ProtoEvangelium of James.

I do not believe in the accuracy or truth of this book.

Nearly all of the doctrines/dogmas about Mary come from this single source. You should look into its authenticity, which is very questionable.

As for the doctrine of Original Sin, the Salvation of Mary, and other doctrines/dogmas about Mary, I will leave that to you and your church.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/9/15


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All of this time, He was still the Word of God--but this time, incarnate, in human form, fully divine and fully human, with a divine will and a human will.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/8/15

I know for myself, I accept and believe this definition as truth. Jesus was and is God Incarnate, the Logos from time eternal and the Son beginning with the Incarnation. He is truth, life, and the only way to the Father.

I also think that a majority of the people on these blogs believe and accept these statements.

Our confusion continues to be the high veneration of Mary within the RCC verses the seemingly lack of veneration for Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/9/15


I cannot find it anywhere in the Bible.---Luke

Neither can you find 'only Bible' in the Bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 states the opposite, but I guess ignore that one.

I not bounding myself to a man made up concept of 'only Bible'.

So God can make two sinners conceive a sinless child, but He can't make one sinner impregnated with His Holy Spirit conceive a sinless child?---Jed

Pay attention.

God Saved Mary when Mary was conceived NOT giving her parents POWERS to conceive a sinless child.

Next because Mary's body didn't have the Original sin because she was SAVED at conception her body given to Jesus DOESN'T HAVE THE ORIGINAL SIN!.

Are you suggesting the Holy Spirit has sin to past to Jesus??
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/9/15


\\As far as Judah's brothers in Matthew 1 are concerned, those were actually his real brothers. They shared the same father.
\\

But not the same mother, which was the point I was making.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/15


Jed, Cluny answered you about calling brothers without same parents.

No he didn't. The examples he provided are not even close. Lot was Abraham's nephew from a brother who had died. Thus Abraham's father adopted Lot and raised him as a son, and as a brother to Abraham and the two were raised as brothers. Since Lot's father had previously died, Lot was entitled and received his father's inheritance from Abraham's father. Thus, for all legal and practical purposes, the two were raised and treated as brothers. Lot was only Abraham's nephew biologically, but was legally his brother.

As far as Judah's brothers in Matthew 1 are concerned, those were actually his real brothers. They shared the same father.
---Jed on 12/8/15


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Jed, I said to give Chapter and verse stating Joseph and Mary had other children? Not Jesus having other brothers or sisters. I can have a brother that isn't my mother's child. ---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/15


Since Joseph was not Jesus' father, any children Joseph may have fathered without Mary would be of no biological relation to Jesus. Jesus and His brothers/sisters had to have shared a mother.

Immaculate Conception is at the moment Joachim's sperm entered the egg of Anna causing the conception of Mary: God INFUSED HIS SAVING GRACE TO Saved Mary from Original sin.

So God can make two sinners conceive a sinless child, but He can't make one sinner impregnated with His Holy Spirit conceive a sinless child?
---Jed on 12/8/15


Nicole, can you tell us where in the Bible it says?
" God INFUSED HIS SAVING GRACE TO Saved Mary from Original sin."
I cannot find it anywhere in the Bible. And the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is the truth. Please give the truth.
---Luke on 12/9/15


Jed, I said to give Chapter and verse stating Joseph and Mary had other children?

Not Jesus having other brothers or sisters. I can have a brother that isn't my mother's child.

Jed, Cluny answered you about calling brothers without same parents.

//Immaculate Conception refers to the impregnation of Mary, not of Mary's mother Anna..---Mark_Eaton

Noooo, Immaculate Conception has NOTHING to do with impregnation of anyone, nor the Incarnation of Jesus!!!

Immaculate Conception is at the moment Joachim's sperm entered the egg of Anna causing the conception of Mary: God INFUSED HIS SAVING GRACE TO Saved Mary from Original sin.

Do you understand?
When I said 90%, that also includes Catholics.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/15


No Mary didn't remain a virgin. Matthew 1:24 & 25 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him,and took Mary as his wife,but kept her a virgin "until" she gave birth to a son,and he called His name Jesus. Until means up to the time of,the time when she gave birth,no mortal woman with a physical body can have a baby come down the birth canal and remain a virgin. The old rule for a woman being a virgin was having the hymen still intact. A baby being born would not allow that condition to exist. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 12/8/15


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Mark Eaton said, "Perhaps you could explain to us "simpletons" your definition of Jesus being God Incarnate?"

The Word of God--the second person of the Trinity--was made man by the power of the Holy Spirit. He came into this world crying--as most babies do--and Mary nursed Him, and helped Him learn to walk, and kissed His knees when He fell down. All of this time, He was still the Word of God--but this time, incarnate, in human form, fully divine and fully human, with a divine will and a human will. He suffered, died for us on the Cross, was buried and, on the third day, He rose from the dead.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 12/8/15


Some people on these blogs do not accept that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate.
---Cluny on 12/8/15

As a way to helping us non-Orthodox and non-RCC understand, perhaps you should explain what you mean.

RCC and Orthodox use terms and terminology that is unique. Many Protestants do not use and understand the terminology.

For example, many here believe the Immaculate Conception refers to the impregnation of Mary, not of Mary's mother Anna.

Perhaps you could explain to us "simpletons" your definition of Jesus being God Incarnate?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/15


Sorry Jed, I haven't bound myself to only Scriptures as you.

I merely asked you to provide another example of cousins who were called brothers and sisters. Wouldn't you agree there would be other examples if that was the practice in those days, as you claimed?

Give Chapter and Verse stating Joseph and Mary had another child other than Jesus

You have already been provided with scripture saying that Jesus had other brothers and sisters. You say that they were cousins. The Bible trumps you, Nicole.

You can't, so you HAVE TO DROP the other children as Jesus' brothers or sister according to your only beliefs.

No. I assume they were brothers and sisters, because the Bible says they were.
---Jed on 12/8/15


Please be specific.--Jed

Sorry Jed, I haven't bound myself to only Scriptures as you.

I believe in both Tradition and Scripture.

Just because you don't believe in drinking alcohol does it mean you except me not to drink alcohol?

No! That is your belief not mine.

Now according to your belief of only Scripture.

Give Chapter and Verse stating Joseph and Mary had another child other than Jesus (Foster child to Joseph).

Or even where Mary had children by another man after Joseph's death or he had children by another woman?

You can't, so you HAVE TO DROP the other children as Jesus' brothers or sister according to your only beliefs.

BE TRUE TO YOUR BELIEFS, AND I SHALL DO THE SAME!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/15


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\\ Can you show any other time in the New Testament where cousins were referred to as brothers or sisters, Nicole?\\

Abraham called his nephew Lot his brother.

Matthew 1 refers to Judah "and his brothers," though they had 4 mothers among them.

Admittedly, this may not answer the question you asked, but it does show that the Bible does use "brother" rather loosely when discussing relations in a family

BTW, the reason I've not said anything heretofore is that I agree with Monk Brendan. Some people on these blogs do not accept that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/15


If brothers and sisters really meant cousins---Jed

No, cousins are included with brothers and sisters.
A difference than what you wrote.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/7/15


Okay then, if brothers and sisters INCLUDES cousins (yeah, real big difference there, SMH), then there would be other examples in the New Testament where cousins were referred to as brothers or sisters. Can you show any other time in the New Testament where cousins were referred to as brothers or sisters, Nicole? (Excluding of course any references to spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ.) Please be specific.
---Jed on 12/7/15


So either Mary had relations with Joseph, or she committed sin throughout her entire marriage. Which is it?---Jed on 12/6/15

Jed, I thought you were going to stop judging??

How do you know it was Mary who withhold relations and not Joseph?

Again this is the reason Jesus said don't judge.

Matthew 7:1-2
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/15


If brothers and sisters really meant cousins---Jed

No, cousins are included with brothers and sisters.
A difference than what you wrote.

//3. After having Jesus, Mary and Joseph had other children.---Leon

Where is it that in the Bible? No where. You made that up.

Protestants are always SCREAMING 'CHAPTER AND VERSE'
But are the FIRST to violate it.

//Nickie: Again, the Bible plainly says Jesus had step brothers and sisters.---Leon

CONFUSED?

I defined 'step' relations to you. Do you mean Half sister and brothers since Mary is not the Holy Spirit?

Still prove where in the Bible states Mary had other children??

PLEASE AT LEAST FOLLOW YOUR OWN RULES IF YOU WANT US TO FOLLOW THEM.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/7/15


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If brothers and sisters really meant cousins in the New Testament days, then you should be able to provide other examples of cousins who were called brothers and sisters in the New Testament (not including references to spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ, that's a separate issue altogether).

Interestingly, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox also claim that Mary was without sin her whole life. Yet for able bodied spouses to withhold "relations" from each other is itself a sin. So either Mary had relations with Joseph, or she committed sin throughout her entire marriage. Which is it?
---Jed on 12/6/15


///...Now they are step brothers and Sisters??? Okay. Please tell me when Mary or Joseph remarried? [???] Plus, children by another spouse?...you are stating Mary didn't have any other children. [I DIDN'T SAY THAT!!!] You do know what 'step' means? Not blood related[???]...---Nicole_Lacey on 12/6/15///

NO NIKKI, THAT'S NOT IT! 1.) Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit even though she was betroth/engaged to be married to Joseph. 2.) Joseph agreed to marry Mary, but he was Jesus's step-father. 3.) After having Jesus, Mary & Joseph had other children. 4.) Joseph was their father & Mary was their mother, but Mary was also Jesus's mother.
---Leon on 12/6/15


Leon, only family and friends call me Nikki.

Now they are step brothers and Sisters??? Okay. Please tell me when Mary or Joseph remarried? Plus, children by another spouse?

But at least we are getting somewhere since you are stating Mary didn't have any other children.
You do know what 'step' means? Not blood related.

About cousins, go to a Hispanic family and ask them yourself.
If I gave you my family's number you would accuse me of coaching them.

Also, ask them if they moved from house to house (Aunt or Uncle) as they were growing up.
Immediate family consist of having the same Grandparents, not parents.

I am sorry if you couldn't experience this culture growing up. You are not Hispanic. Remember?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/6/15


///...Since you all want only Scriptures. Give proof that MARY gave birth to other sons or daughters...---Nicole_Lacey on 12/5/15///

Nickie: Again, the Bible plainly says Jesus had step brothers & sisters. If you don't believe Scripture is proof, what do you base your comments on?

Jesus, the elder brother, gave his cousin John the responsibility for taking care of Mary because the other brothers were unbelievers & weren't there. Instead, they thought Jesus was crazy & probably thought Mary was too.

///Cousins are counted as brother and sisters in that cultures as in my Hispanic culture today.///

You made that up, didn't you. :) If that's true, support it with documented proof.
---Leon on 12/5/15


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//Cousins are... brother and sisters// Nicole.

Catholic theologian, John P. Meier, former president of the Catholic Bible Association of America, wrote:

'In the NT adelphos [brother], when used not merely figuratively or metaphorically but rather to designate some sort of physical or legal relationship, means only full or half-brother, and nothing else'.


//[Jesus would not] ALLOW another man care for his mother//

Jesus' brothers were not yet in a position to care spiritually for his mother, as John 7:5 says,

'For even his own brothers [adelphos] did not believe in him'.

'Cousin' [Greek, 'anepsios'] does not occur at Mk.6:3 or Jo.7:5.
---David8318 on 12/5/15


Why anyone in their right mind would debate it is insane. ---Leon on 12/5/15

Because they are in their right mind and not insane.

Cousins are counted as brother and sisters in that cultures as in my Hispanic culture today.

Besides, where were these brothers when John had to take care for Mary after Jesus' death?

No Jew boy would ALLOW another man care for his mother is he if still alive.

The so called brother would have told John, she belongs to me. And Mary would have said the same after Jesus' death.

Since you all want only Scriptures.

Give proof that MARY gave birth to other sons or daughters.

Remember James and John had another dad and mother.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/5/15


///"Aren't James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon his brothers? Don't his sisters still live here in our town?"- Mark 6:3, Contemporary English Version.

Simple answer is no. Mary did not remain a virgin until death. Jesus had brothers and sisters.---David8318 on 12/5/15///

That's right! There it is Dave, in the Bible. Why anyone in their right mind would debate it is insane.
---Leon on 12/5/15


Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (KJV)

This statement says that Mary did not remain a virgin. Note the words "knew" and "till" meaning that he "knew" her in an intimate way as his wife after Christ was born.
---trey on 12/5/15


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"Aren't James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon his brothers? Don't his sisters still live here in our town?"- Mark 6:3, Contemporary English Version.

Simple answer is no. Mary did not remain a virgin until death. Jesus had brothers and sisters.
---David8318 on 12/5/15


It is pointless to discuss Marian doctrine when a lot of people don't believe that Mary's son is God incarnate.

Pray for me,
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 12/5/15


"Did Mary remain a virgin until death, even though she was married to Joseph?" No.
Marriage has to be consummated to be legit. Marriage biblically was almost always predicated by he "went in into her", "he took her", or "he knew her" and she "became his wife" Scripture states that "Mary was espoused to Joseph, [but] before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Mat 1:18 [And] [Joseph] did not consummate their marriage until [Mary] gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."Mat 1:25 NIV . That same verse in the NASB reads "but he kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son, and he called His name Jesus.
---joseph on 12/5/15


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