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How Christians Can Grow

How can Christians grow and mature when they depend upon the government and the denominational church to help others instead of getting personally involved?

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 ---Steveng on 2/7/16
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Are you talking about yourself or the worldly denominational "church" of Steveng?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/23/16


...Ergo,...something missing in the doctrine of predestination.
---StrongAxe on 4/11/16

Whats missing, is scripture.

Isa_45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, Israel mine elect, ...
Mar_13:27 then shall he send his angels, shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth....
Isa_54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee, but with great mercies will I gather thee.
Zec_10:8 I will hiss for them, and gather them, for I have redeemed them: they shall increase as they have increased.
Amo_9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
---Trav on 5/8/16


First I don't see what is wrong with the way Strongax used Romans. So please tell me what he did wrong.

I have studied TULIP and predestination.

I agree with Arminius. And Wesley. So yes I have studied it.

So tell me how do you justify the limited atonement?
---Samuelbb7 on 5/6/16


Strongaxe, there is nothing wrong with the doctrine of Predestination. What I believe has happen is that you have never studied the doctrine to know whether you are right or wrong. You must have read a website opposing the doctrine. If you study the doctrine then you have grounds to stand on.
How can you argue a point in Scripture when you do not even believe the Scriptures are truth? You give every argument concerning the truth of Scripture. And then you turn around and quote Scripture like you just did with Romans.
---Luke on 5/6/16


How Christians Can Grow?

Q. How can Christians grow and mature when they depend upon the government and the denominational church to help others instead of getting personally involved?

A. Read your Bible, pray everyday if you want to grow...
---Leon on 5/3/16




No cluny antinomianism. Is the doctrine that there is no law. Or no nomos which includes there are no Ten Commandments. Some say it means faith alone and that nothing we do matters.

No this was another group. But their doctrine was antinomian.

True Strong Ax. Some like Church Colson teach that if you aren't living for Jesus you are not saved. He calls it Lordship Salvation. Closer to what the Puritans taught.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/11/16


Samuelbb7:

You wrote: There was another group. Whose name I can't remember who decided they were to sin all they could since it didn't matter.

Their bibles must have omitted Romans 6:1-2: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

They were either saved or lost so it made no difference if they lived in sin.

Yet this is the inevitable conclusion when you take follow what predestination actually implies. Ergo, there must be something missing in the doctrine of predestination.
---StrongAxe on 4/11/16


\\There was another group. Whose name I can't remember who decided they were to sin all they could since it didn't matter.\\

Do you mean Antinomian/Antinomianism, Samuel?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/16


I know it stumped me too.

The history that I researched showed me that the Universalists reject that Jesus death was a limited atonement and that GOD hated people. Once they rejected those two points and knew that GOD draws all and loves all they came to the conclusion that in the end all will be saved.

There was another group. Whose name I can't remember who decided they were to sin all they could since it didn't matter. They were either saved or lost so it made no difference if they lived in sin.

Puritans taught that their works showed they were among the chosen.

I love history.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/8/16


Samuelbb7:

You wrote: Universalism came out of Calvinism.

How is this possible, as they are diametrically opposed? Universalism teaches that all will be saved, while Calvinism says that not all will be saved.
---StrongAxe on 4/8/16




Samuel, you say:
"Universalism came out of Calvinism."

you say you do not sin, yet you lie when you made that statement. If you read the passages carefully as you should you would know the two passages are speaking of a complete different topic. You also say that God can do anything including giving sinful man free will. But you are wrong, because you will never find that in Scripture. Like many others you add to Scripture what is not there, so you again sin. But it is ok, you don't know where you are heading to. You must have learned that from E.G. White. Reading her stuff made you an Elder.
---Luke on 4/8/16


God can do what he wants.

Including give mankind free will.

As Jesus Christ said when he was lifted up He would draw all to Him. If that means as you say then all will be saved.

Universalism came out of Calvinism.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/7/16


Samuel, you now say you oppose Calvinism because God does not force anyone to Himself.
What you are saying is that God cannot do what He wants to His creation. That sinful man has the right over God. This is the reason you don't know where you are heading to. You don't know the God of Scripture.
John 6:44 is speaking of God drawing some individuals to Himself, and then gives them to Christ, and He will raise them up on the last day, and He goes on to explain in (v. 47) "Most assuredly, I say to you he who believes in Me has everlasting life" those drawn by God in this passage have everlasting life.
But to even understand the passages you have to be born of the Spirit. Otherwise you get the passages all twisted up.
---Luke on 4/6/16


\Where is this doctrine found in the Bible? \\

BTW, this is hardly a doctrine, but merely an interpretation of history.
---Cluny on 4/6/16

Yeah, after all it was just the prophets of Israel that testify it, Christ and the Apostles. Meaningless, per your testimony.
Here is a couple of prophets "interpretation".
Eze_37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Amo_9:9 For, lo, I will command, I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
---Trav on 4/6/16


\\Where is this doctrine found in the Bible? \\

BTW, this is hardly a doctrine, but merely an interpretation of history.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/6/16


\\The reason I don't put in the nth and sth houses of Israel is that I have never heard of them.

Where is this doctrine found in the Bible? Where did it come from since it is not taught in the History of the Christian church? \\

I was taught this in Baptist Sunday School.

While I never could (and still can't) keep them straight, I know the split started after the death of Solomon.

It's not something I stay up all night fretting over.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/5/16


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But Trav ...Different situation.
Moses's wife was not Jewish.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/2/16

Being separate is not a situation, it was a heritage command. Reference the words "for-ever" an "everlasting".
Moses was not Judean either. Nor were the other thirteen tribes.
Moab is a country named after Lot's incestuous children. Lot being a nephew of Abraham.
Genesis Rabbah and Judean Talmud state that Tamar was an Israelite. As one would expect.
You promote a false doctrine, perhaps without knowing it on all this. Just to climb in another way.
Lev 20:26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.
Jer 51:19.
---Trav on 4/5/16


But Trav I recognize those as true statements and part of the truth. First being Nehemiah was not at the same time as Exodus. Different situation.

But you have not admitted that the Scripture about non Jews becoming Jews is also in the Bible in Exodus.

How about that Jesus is also descended from Tamar a Canaanite, Ruth a Moabite, (See Matthew 1) and Rahab.

James 2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Moses's wife was not Jewish.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/2/16


Trav you ignore the words of the Bible which contradict your viewpoint.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/1/16

Hmmm. Well, actually I'm forced to ignore you by your lack of witnesses. Your opinions...are not even worthy.
Along your precise lines of "Dis-information", some you surely forgot to mention below. Hmmmm.

Exo 12:43 the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Neh_13:3 Now it came to pass, when they had heard the law, that they separated from Israel all the mixed multitude.

6 words for stranger/foreigner in O.T. and 7 in the N.T.
---Trav on 4/1/16


I recognize all the prophets. Including David who in Psalm 117 says all people will be called. Also Isaiah who says all people will be called.

Lastly Moses who talked about the mixed multitude who were accepted into Israel and how all could join to Israel who wanted to.

Trav you ignore the words of the Bible which contradict your viewpoint.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/1/16


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Why are you not accepting of what Jesus stated that all people are to be called?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/23/16

I accept what Christ says. Matt 10:6, 15:24. Christ fulfilled all prophets. All prophets were of Israel speaking to Israel.
You stumble with your doctrines of men, never utilizing all prophets.
By your stumbling lack of witnesses, there is no light in you.
Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
---Trav on 3/31/16


Trav, ... You say:
"Heb_8:8 ... new covenant with the house of Israel and...Judah:"
Luke says: New Covenant better then the old one?
"Micah 2:1 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee, ...,' Luke says: Did you hear that? Only the remnant will be saved. That is not all Israel or all Judah.
---Luke on 3/23/16

Trav replies: Yes better,Yes same people,...new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:"
Trav replies: Jacob is Israel Gen_32:28 Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel:.
Act_2:36 let all the house of Israel know assuredly,...
Mic_2:12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee,...
Rom_11:26 so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,...
---Trav on 3/29/16


In effect Luke you are saying that he did not mean what he said.

To draw doesn't mean forced to be saved. We are agreed not all will be saved.

This is part of the reasons that I oppose Calvinism.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/28/16


Samuel, you now say:
"Jesus will draw all humans to him. Can you agree to that?"

Jesus was speaking of His crucifixion, and when He says all men, in the context it means every nation not just Jews. Salvation is for all people no matter the place where they are born. It does not mean that every single person is drawn to salvation, because we know already many are going to hell. Jesus had already included the Pharisees, and murderers, slanders that were going to hell. So we know He does not draw everyone to salvation.
---Luke on 3/28/16


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I believe that you and I are using called in a different way. Which I believe is my fault. So let me use a different word.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jesus will draw all humans to him. Can you agree to that?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/27/16


Samuel, you now say:
"Why are you not accepting of what Jesus stated that all people are to be called?"

Samuel, I find no passage where Jesus states that everyone will be called. If everyone is called then all are saved, and as we know not everyone is. Maybe what you are trying to say is that the gospel should go out to all the world. But even that has not happen. There is many parts of the world where they have never heard of the gospel. I believe the passage is saying that the gospel will go out to every nation. But in the case of China, millions have never heard of Jesus Christ. And they will die in their sins.
---Luke on 3/25/16


Trav hear the words of Jesus to his Church.

Mark 16:15,16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Matthew 28:19,20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/24/16


Trav Since I have never used anyone but Bible prophets you have made a false accusation.

Nor have you shown where the Prophetic statements that add all the world to Israel and that they will be called also are incorrect. You just ignore what the Bible says when it shows you are wrong.

Why are you not accepting of what Jesus stated that all people are to be called?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/23/16


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Trav, Here you again give passages from the Old Testament, and we all know that God spoke to the nation of Israel. What else is new? You say:
"Heb_8:8 ... saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:" God did make a New Covenant better then the old one.


"Micah 2:1 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee, I will surely gather the remnant of Israel:...,' Did you hear that? Only the remnant will be saved. That is not all Israel or all Judah.


Jer_2:4 Hear ye the word of the LORD, O house of Jacob, and all the families of the house of Israel:" They never could hear or obey God.
---Luke on 3/23/16


...I am following the law and the words of Jesus. Who told the Apostles to go to ????Matt 10:6.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/22/16

Jer 31:1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, they shall be my people.
It is scriptural that you anul the people that GOD chose, and chose to marry...twice. Ironically in this, they will be sought/found. Your work is not without purpose fulfilling Ezekiel 34:6. You cannot hide what GOD and Christ seeks. Matt 10:6/15:24, Eze_34:11,12.
Your posted testimony is of following the false prophet law of egwhite and samuelbb7.

Eze_37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 3/23/16


But I am following the law and the words of Jesus. Who told the Apostles to go to the Gentiles. Just like the Psalmist said.

Psalms 117:1,2
O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people. For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation,
Tools specific to Rev 14:6

Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
---Samuelbb7 on 3/22/16


New Testament Jesus specifically states they are now to be included.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/21/16

The New Testament Covenant Heb_8:8,is specific, prophets are all specific. Christ was specific as were the Apostles.
You are not, nor can be. Therefore you are false. Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Heb_8:8 ... saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Micah 2:1 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee, I will surely gather the remnant of Israel:...,
Jer_2:4 Hear ye the word of the LORD, O house of Jacob, and all the families of the house of Israel:
---Trav on 3/22/16


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Trav, ...only thing you have given us is the same stuff over and over. The lost sheep, Judah, two houses, and on and on...
---Luke on 3/18/16

Thanks.
You've never once bothered to address the truth and valid witness of any of these scriptures.
The fact that you don't look at, honor or unite these to "light", is the darkness and confusion you confess.
Deal with Moses, and prophets.
I won't open and waste what you refuse to eat.
John 5:46,47...For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Luke 16:31 ...If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
---Trav on 3/22/16


A New Covenant is alive naming the same parties as the Old Covenant. Trav

True. But Gentiles have always been accepted into the Covenant of Israel throughout the Old Testament. The New Testament Jesus specifically states they are now to be included.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
---Samuelbb7 on 3/21/16


Trav, you say you have given us proof. The only thing you have given us is the same stuff over and over. The lost sheep, Judah, two houses, and on and on.
The New Testament is not talking about Judah. It is talking about Jesus Christ and the new gospel. After His death when the veil came down, the gospel was now open to everyone. First to the Jews and later to the Gentiles. Now anyone can be saved by God. He has the right to choose whom He wants to have mercy on. He is not stuck by some laws. You want Him to only save Jews because you feel it is not right to save others. What's up with that?
---Luke on 3/18/16


Actually Grace runs through the entire Bible. There's only one who earned Heaven. Jesus.

Only grace can save us.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/18/16


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The Bible rightly divided separates law and grace prophecy from mystery, Israel from the church, heaven and earth. In prophecy God worked through Israel to fulfill his purpose on the earth, but now according to the revelation of the mystery God is working through the church for a heavenly purpose.
Gods present work according to the mystery was never revealed in the prophetic scripture (Rom 16:25).
---michael_e on 3/16/16


One way to be personally involved is through personal contact. And while most of us pay taxes that benefit the needy, we also are in contact personally. One does not cancel the other.
---Geraldine on 2/8/16
---Bill on 3/16/16


Right division
Israel and the Church are the two entities ....---michael_e on 3/15/16

Two entities...are not shown scripturally. Two Houses yes, with a new covenant. Assembly of Israel is the "ekklesia" or church.
If one will utilize the sum of the scripture witnesses it is clear how it is fulfilled.
GOD married Israel. Divorced the North House of Ten (Jeremiah/Isaiah).
Promises to remarry again (Hosea). Which appears impossible, GOD would be breaking his own marriage laws which require widowhood for the wife to be free. Christ death fulfills GOD's law of marriage and sacrifice and a New Covenant is fulfillable. A New Covenant is alive naming the same parties as the Old Covenant.
---Trav on 3/16/16


2/13/16just want to agree with you Bro.Strongaxe,for I too,had cancer 2 thankfull for God'mercy my healings yes govt.had most effective help me God has been good to me.Just wanted to agree with you,govt had alot to do too my being here,today to write this.thankyou brother we both know the mercies given.Elena95555
---Elena95555 on 3/16/16


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Right division
Israel and the Church are the two entities through which Gods will is performed. Israel gives purpose to the only religion ordained by God. Through its covenants this nation of priests shadowed the things to come on earth through the Messiah.
The boC isn't the general congregation throughout all history, but that one body church. This "New CREATURE" represents the power of faith. Through faith the gospel of Christ creates all things new manifesting Gods glory in heavenly places.
While Israel and the boC both point to Christ for their fulfillment they must be separated or we have identity confusion. We are either Israel (Jew or Gentile) or we are the Church the boC (neither Jew nor Gentile).
---michael_e on 3/15/16


Very plain
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, ...2:16...reconcile both unto God in one body
---michael_e on 3/3/16

So plain that Israel will see it...regardless if you cannot.
Re-unified by covenant.
Heb_8:8 ...I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel "AND" with the house of Judah:
Jer_33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel "and" to the house of Judah.
Eze_34:11... I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
Eze_28:25 ...When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and ...sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen,...
---Trav on 3/15/16


Trav, like how you add to Scripture....
Paul not once mentioned Israel, or Mexico, ...
---Luke on 3/3/16

Have posted scriptural proof. If you cannot see or will not look/seek then the onus is on you, not me.
Paul called the Ephesians redeemed. As Israel is by the New Covenant Heb8:8/Jer 31:31...Nth House of Israel who had the law, sinned by adulteries with other gods and was found guilty and put away Jer 3:14.
Paul writes of Predestination, promises, redemption, inheritance, grace etc, etc.
All of the above O.T. prophets confirm addressed to Israel...GOD's wife and servant people he works through. Still today.
Your opinion derives from the doctrines of men no prophets, Christ or Israelite Apostles confirm.
---Trav on 3/15/16


Very plain
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh,
Eph 2:13 ...ye who sometimes were far off ... (nations)
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, (Jew and Gentile Acts 9:15)
Eph 2:15 ...of twain(Jew and Gentile) one new man, so making peace,
Eph 2:16...reconcile both unto God in one body
---michael_e on 3/3/16


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Trav, I like how you add to Scripture in order to bring out your points about Judah and the divorced North House. Ephesians chapter 2 is not speaking about Judah or the North House. Paul is speaking to the saints at Ephesus, the Epistle is written to them see Eph. 1:1,2. It was written to the faithful saints those whom God has set apart from sin to Himself, made holy through their faith in Jesus Christ. Paul not once mentioned Israel, or Montana, Mexico, Northern Mexico, but believing saints at Ephesus.
To you everything is Judah or the divorced North.
You have to move on Trav, you are staying behind building and adding to Scripture what is not there for some reason or another.
---Luke on 3/3/16


...Instead of becoming part of Israel, Paul announces a new creature, the boC. (Eph 2:15)
---michael_e on 3/2/16

Unsupported by Christ or any prophet.
The subject of Eph 2:15 is stated in language the prophets used.
Eph 2:13 ...ye who sometimes were far off ... (Divorced Isr
ael Nth House of Ten)
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, ...(Heb 8:8 House of Israel...and...Judah)
Eph 2:15 ...of twain one new man, so making peace, (Again Heb 8:8 Nth House of Israel "and" Judah)
Eph 2:16...reconcile both unto God in one body ...(again Heb 8:8)
Eph 2:17 ...which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. ("Afar off" Nth House of Israel divorced Jer_30:10,Jer_31:10 etc, )
---Trav on 3/3/16


The reason I don't put in the nth and sth houses of Israel is that I have never heard of them.
Where is this doctrine found in the Bible? Where did it come from...
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/16

It is not a doctrine. It is scriptural history. You've never heard because it will not unify with doctrines of men.
Relearn your Bible. Quit running with the crowd. Man of GOD or man of crowd?

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31.
Jer 3:8 And I saw,...
---Trav on 3/3/16


Steven, first of all you again come out with a blog to bash the denominational churches as always.
Second, sinners will be saved from every church if they are called by God. And they will grow and mature as the Holy Spirit guides them. And they will be saved no matter what anyone believes. Even from those who meet at homes, even when they believe in their own doctrines who do not follow a denomination. Remember, we are all sinners saved by the grace of God. Stop bashing others and start helping others.
---Luke on 3/3/16


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The reason I don't put in the nth and sth houses of Israel is that I have never heard of them.

Where is this doctrine found in the Bible? Where did it come from since it is not taught in the History of the Christian church?

Who started this thought and when?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/16


Romans 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed ...
---Samuelbb7 on 3/2/16

Sam you never connect the scripturally covenanted Nth and Sth Houses of Israel, in prophecy, promise or covenant.
The "grafting" is these two promised/covenanted parties.
Eze_37: (16)-17 And join them one to another into one stick, and they shall become one in thine hand.
Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31.
Same tree, same grafting family. The North House divorced/put away/scattered and lost...with the un-divorced Southern House of Judah.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
---Trav on 3/2/16


You must be a converted Jew. If you were a converted Gentile you would not be defending the gospel only for Jews.
---Luke on 3/1/16

I am converted by truth for truth. Having been feed men's doctrines of lies for so long.
I don't claim to be a sheep. Whether I am or not does not change "Sheep" scripture. Truth doesn't suddenly become untruth because it doesn't fit your doctrines...except for you.
GOD is truth and provides his own witnesses by multiples but, "only" for those to whom anything less than truth is fertilizer. Truth is freedom...lies are a pit and prison controlled by men.
2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
---Trav on 3/2/16


To say the saved become part of Israel denies the purpose God separated Israel from the nations.
Since what was revealed to Paul was not made known unto the sons of men, then no prophetic scripture, spiritualized or literal, would refer to the church today.
Paul says there is neither Jew nor Greek today in Christ (Gal 3:28).
Instead of becoming part of Israel, Paul announces a new creature, the boC. (Eph 2:15)
Out of Jews and Gentiles, Christ made a NEW man. The boC is what we become when we are saved today. We do not know any man after the flesh,(2 Cor 5:16) whether Israel, American or European
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17
---michael_e on 3/2/16


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As I have stated before all those born again become part of Israel in the New Covenant. see my post on 2/26/16.

Read Ephesians 2.

Romans 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
---Samuelbb7 on 3/2/16


Trav, Jesus did not have to use the word Gentile, we know anyone who was not a true Jew was a Gentile. Second, When Jesus told the Apostles to only go to the Jews, the curtain had not come down. That only happens when Jesus is Crucified. When the curtain came down the gospel was now open to all others including Jews yet to this day only very few have come to Christ. Yet the gospel has now gone all over the world to all people. Sorry, but the gospel is not only for you, it is for everyone. You must be a converted Jew. If you were a converted Gentile you would not be defending the gospel only for Jews.
---Luke on 3/1/16


But He commanded the Apostles to go to the Gentiles, for the curtain came down ...
---Luke on 2/26/16

First, Christ never used the word "gentile". It is a latin vulgate/rcc concoction/aberration.
Mat_10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Eze_37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Evermore. Still means, evermore.
---Trav on 3/1/16


Trav, when Jesus came in Person, He did come for the lost sheep of Israel. That was His assignment. But He commanded the Apostles to go to the Gentiles, for the curtain came down and now salvation was for everyone. The Old Testament predicted the salvation of the Gentiles.
Concern Jesus Christ as the Israel of God, we find many verses Israel was God's vine, His Elect, He Servant
And I will put My Spirit upon Him: He will bring forth Justice to the Gentiles....(Isaiah 42:1-3). all those names applied to the physical nation of Israel.
"When Israel was a child I loved Him, and out of Egypt I called My Son" Hosea 11:2 The prophesy came to pass in Matthew 2:14 and it was said concerning Jesus.
---Luke on 2/26/16


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I understand what you believe Trav. The Church is Israel. The new Israel the overcomes who follow GOD.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/16


The Old concerns Israel, the New concerns Jesus Christ.
---Luke on 2/24/16

Because I was mislead like yourself 40 years I understand you.
The Old Covenant is exclusively to Israel's lineage...the New Covenant is a continuation.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The Lost Sheep are the divorced/put away, Ten brothers/sons of Israel of the North House of Israel.
Luk_19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Heb_8:8 ...I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 2/24/16


Rita, I never said for everyone to abandon the Old Testament. The Old Testament is about the coming Savior. He has come and He has risen. The Old concerns Israel, the New concerns Jesus Christ. Israel literally means "Prince with God". God told Moses, "Say to Pharaoh, "Thus says the Lord: Israel is My Son, My firstborn..Let My Son go" Exodus 4:22,23. God called His nation, My Son, My firstborn. Now compare that to the Lord Jesus Christ and you will see that Israel was first the name of one man Jacob, then the nation of Israel, then the Lord Jesus Christ. So no, do not throw away the Old Testament, there is much to learn from the past.
---Luke on 2/24/16


Luke we have never been told to abandon the O.T. It has much to teach us and most churches use an O.T. and a N.T. reading at weekly services.

God has not abandoned Jews. Many still become saved and have the most wonderful testimonies to give. If you ever have opportunity to hear one please do so.
---Rita_H on 2/23/16


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Trav, you quoted Ezekiel three times. ...the Old Testament was for the nation of Israel? We have moved on to the New Testament.
---Luke on 2/23/16

Well Luke throw the Old Testament away, most do. You'll be amongst wide way companionship.
If I look and post for who Christ looked and posted for what is this to you?
A New Testament of a "New Covenant" to the same people Ezekiel spoke too.
Note the language of this "New Covenant" prophesied. GOD can and will do what he wants with who he wants. Whether Luke likes it or not.
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 2/23/16


Trav, you quoted Ezekiel three times. Don't you already know that the Old Testament was for the nation of Israel? We have moved on to the New Testament. Salvation is open to all nations and to all people. So it doesn't matter from where you come from are who you are, if God has chosen you already, you will be called, and when you are called, you will respond. Otherwise, no matter from where you are from, you will be lost. If it was just for those from Judah, there would be no need to bring the gospel to China, Korea, Chile and many other nations. You want to hog salvation to a certain few you belong to. In your mind, led the others in on salvation. If you don't, you mind will never be right.
---Luke on 2/23/16


Trav:

You wrote: Few here tolerate/entertain any mention of any basic part of Israel for instance. Yourself as testament, lump them as one false tribal name and defend the ignorance. Without scriptural witnesses.

The current surviving members of the 12 Tribes of Israel currently refer to themselves as Jews. Who am I, and who are you to argue? We all know what the word means (e.g. the origins of the word originally came from the single tribe of Judah, but common usage today includes all 12 tribes). Arguing over this is choking on gnats. Why are you so obsessed over this one insignificant issue?

Also, there ARE scriptural witnesses - I mentioned two to you already.
---StrongAxe on 2/22/16


Trav:
Groups have distinctions, which is not a problem, unless the distinction is FIRST.
---StrongAxe on 2/20/16

Point made. The "denom" distinction is, First.
Man has added, taken away and modified until Christianity is unrecognizable. Few here tolerate/entertain any mention of any basic part of Israel for instance. Yourself as testament, lump them as one false tribal name and defend the ignorance. Without scriptural witnesses.
Eze_34:6 My sheep wandered ...and none did search or seek after them.
Eze_34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
Eze_39:29 ...I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
---Trav on 2/22/16


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Trav:

Groups have distinctions, which is not a problem, unless the distinction is FIRST. "I am from the church of Ephesus" was fine. "I am for Paul" vs. "I am for Christ" wasn't.

Corporate entities are not a problem, but placing corporation FIRST is.

Unless your church has under ten people, it won't fit in a living room, and regular gatherings in public places are frowned upon. This needs a location, and a corporate entity to rent or own it. The New Testament mentions a few house churches, but most, like in Revelation and Paul's letters, cover cities - something logistically impossible today without some kind of corporate structure. steveng - how would YOU do a New Testament-style church today?
---StrongAxe on 2/20/16


Steven, I believe you are again trying to bash the denominational churches. Why do you always do that?
---Luke on 2/15/16

Steveng knows that a "Denom" is a name is before Christ. A "denom" is a division. Christ is first, the denom is not necessary but, a hindrance.
Christians should be Christians gathering not in a denom name but, in Christ.
Churchs now are businesses. They are blind, their preachers are blind...for the most part. They come and go here for example. They love their title and presume authority...but, have shown none scripturally. As "hirelings" cannot, being false and uncalled.
Joh_10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
---Trav on 2/17/16


Steven, I believe you are again trying to bash the denominational churches. Why do you always do that?
Your question in many ways doesn't make sense.
No one knows how many Christians mature when they depend upon the government and denominational churches. No one has a number. And also no one has a number for how many Christians that don't depend on the government and the denominational churches.
Many upon many just do the work that Christ expects of us, on their own.
---Luke on 2/15/16


Steveng:

While there are certain acts of Christian charity that believers can do to help others, there are some ways where they just can't do enough.

For example, I just spent a year being successfully treated for cancer. Without government help, I would be dead now. How many thousands of church bake sales do you think would have been needed to pay for that?
---StrongAxe on 2/13/16


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Rita, you hit it right on the nose!

//People usually have more than one need and what many don't have is a TRUE FRIEND. Perhaps that is where you can step in if the people you have in mind already have their material needs provided. ---Rita_H on 2/9/16

I have spoken to many adults who were in the foster system.
They all had one thing in common.

They just wanted someone who loved them and wanted to love in return.

They just felt like they were another number or a paycheck to someone else.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/12/16


Steveng,they can not, because a man grows in Christ, as he grows in love towards his fellow man. And "If someone has enough money to live well and sees a brother or sister in need, but shows no compassion, how can Gods love be in that person?" Fortunately, Father has allowed for a system of government, which if it were true to its origin, would be a "government of the people, by the people, for the people, [and that attitude should] not perish from the earth." Taxes have a purpose that should never exclude caring for the less fortunate among us. Working citizens are privileged to pay taxes, especially taxes used to help the needy, unfortunately that has always been a problem for the loveless, selfish, and prejudicial.
---Josef on 2/10/16


I'm not sure that I have understood your question correctly but this might help.

Just because the government helps people is no reason for us, as individuals and as Christians, not to also help those in need.

People usually have more than one need and what many don't have is a true friend. Perhaps that is where you can step in if the people you have in mind already have their material needs provided.
---Rita_H on 2/9/16


They really must get personally involved. John Wesley of the Methodist church put forth a method for Christian growth.

It involved daily prayer, Bible study and witnessing. Some latter people have compared this to breathing, eating and exercising.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/9/16


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One way to be personally involved is through personal contact. And while most of us pay taxes that benefit the needy, we also are in contact personally. One does not cancel the other.
---Geraldine on 2/8/16


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