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Darwin Or The Bible

The Creation account of the Bible and that of Darwinism are in conflict. Is there any compelling reason why a Christian would choose Darwin over the Bible?

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 ---jerry6593 on 2/10/16
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Chira: Thanks for the clarification, I was a bit confused.

On bacteria: Individual bacteria (or is it bacterium), like people or dogs, are different, and as such, some are stronger than others. Genomes of all species contain a wide range of characteristics, which may be expressed here and there by selective breeding or "natural selection". The result in bacteria is that a cause (e.g., antibiotics) may weed out the weaker bacteria and give the ILLUSION that a new strain has "evolved", but it has merely expressed characteristics that were already present - not created new genetic material.


---jerry6593 on 3/2/16


True John9346 and thank you.

Also good point Chria9396 thank you.

People often confuse many of the Traditions that Jews adopted as being from the Bible.

There are plenty of problems with Evolution. But the Bible does not explain everything either.

We must choose which to put our faith in.

I used to believe in Evolution but I choose to believe the Bible.

Agape to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/2/16


john9346:

Monk_Brendan asked: But if he drives to church, or even walks, he is breaking the Sabbath, is he not?

You replied: No sir

By what legal theory do you think it's lawful, under Mosaic law, to drive on the Sabbath? It is forbidden to light a fire, and cars have spark plugs that cause sparks that cause gasoline to explode hundreds of times per second. You couldn't even count how many times you violate the sabbath just by turning the ignition switch. (Also, any electrical switch anywhere, since switches create sparks, which is technically lighting a fire). And don't even think of cooking on the Sabbath (or even opening the fridge, unless you've unscrewed the light bulb inside first).
---StrongAxe on 3/2/16


Brendan asks, "
But if he drives to church, or even walks, he is breaking the Sabbath, is he not?"

No sir,

"And if you begin preparing yourself before Friday NIGHT, you are robbing God or your employer, is this not also making void the Sabbath?"

No sir.
---john9346 on 3/1/16


Jerry and Trey,

I apologize for inadvertently crediting Treys quoted comments to Jerry. My post should have read:

Trey,

"drug resistant bacteria does not prove evolution. It proves natural section. These aren't new "bugs". They are simply descendents of the bugs that were already naturally resistant."

That's how I have understood it also. Additionally, much has been known of natural ways microbes are inhibited, from other microbes to applications of natural remedies
---Chria9396 on 3/1/16




Jerry said, " Now if you also believe in the second coming of Christ, you too will be a Seventh-day Adventist."

All of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach the second coming of Jesus Christ, but that does not make me a Seventh Day Adventist.

Jesus is coming again. It hasn't happened yet, and any church that has predicted His return is a false church. Jesus told us (through the Apostles), "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matt 24:36)

Therefore anyone (or church) that has made a prediction of when Jesus is coming and been wrong is false.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/1/16


Jerry,

"drug resistant bacteria does not prove evolution. It proves natural section. These aren't new "bugs". They are simply descendents of the bugs that were already naturally resistant."

That's how I have understood it also. Additionally, much has been known of natural ways microbes are inhibited, from other microbes to applications of natural remedies
---trey on 2/28/16
---Chria9396 on 3/1/16


jerry6593:

I am not arguing this point, merely pointing out how absurd it is when others argue it.

I have heard others on these blogs (Warwick, I think?) specifically argue against evolution because the order of development in evolution is different from that in Genesis.

If the order given in Genesis is unimportant, then this entire argument gets thown out the window. If the order given in Genesis IS important, then Genesis gets thrown out the window, because it contradicts itself. Either way, it can't be used as an argument against evolution. This is not to say that evolution is necessarily correct - just that "it's in the wrong order" doesn't work here to discredit it.
---StrongAxe on 3/1/16


John 9346 said, "Sir, as long as an individual prepares himself on Friday Night before sunset to worship in rememberance of the Sabbath, they are not breaking the Sabbath Commandment."

But if he drives to church, or even walks, he is breaking the Sabbath, is he not?

And if you begin preparing yourself before Friday NIGHT, you are robbing God or your employer, is this not also making void the Sabbath?

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/1/16


monk: "Jerry, you will be happy to learn that I went--along with my monastic superior to Church today--on Saturday."

Great! Glad to hear it. Now if you also believe in the second coming of Christ, you too will be a Seventh-day Adventist. We celebrate Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. We also have Vesper services.



axe: Genesis is no more written in chronological order than is Revelation. Hebrew prose often uses the technique of repeat and amplify. Strange how someone so literate could miss that.


---jerry6593 on 3/1/16




Brendan asked, "All of the days start at the evening. If you are going to church Sabbath morning, then why are you disobeying God's commands."

Sir, as long as an individual prepares himself on Friday Night before sunset to worship in rememberance of the Sabbath, they are not breaking the Sabbath Commandment.

The Scripture state in Lev 26:2, "You must keep My Sabbaths and revere My sanctuary, I am the Lord."
---john9346 on 2/29/16


Concerning "be fruitful and multiply", I don't think anyone reading that thinks that God expected them to procreate, gestate, and spawn all that same day.
God didn't expect Noah to build the Ark the same day the command was given.
---micha9344 on 2/29/16


If you take Gen 2 as an orderly account, then the birds would have been made on day 6. This is in direct opposition to Gen 1, in which birds were made on day 5.
Gen 1 is the orderly account, hence the ordinal numbers.
Gen 2 is a detail of day 6.
The birds and the beasts were made before Adam. The birds and the beasts which God had made, He brought to Adam to name. There is no "order" to when which were made in Gen 2 as there is in Gen 1.
The order (ordinal, ordinary) was set in Gen 1 and contradicts evolutionary timeframe.
Let me ask this: According to Gen 2, when were the fish or the sun, moon and stars made?
The answer is quite clear when one realizes that Gen 2 is only talking about the sixth day.
---micha9344 on 2/29/16


jerry6593:

micha9344 wrote: Birds came before reptiles. These are in opposition to evolution.

I replied: If you reject Darwin on basis of order, you must reject part of Genesis on the same basis.

You wrote: Preposterous!

How so? I was merely pointing out that to micha9344 that, if he is willing to reject Darwin merely because his order differs slightly from that of Genesis 1, he MUST ALSO reject Genesis 2, because its order ALSO DIFFERS FROM GENESIS 1. You can't apply one standard in one case and a different one in a another. Remember what the Bible says about unequal weights.
---StrongAxe on 2/29/16


jerry6593:

You wrote: Are you guys really that biblically illiterate?

Literacy deals with being able to read what is written. It doesn't take someone literate to read what isn't written - it takes a psychic.

Sure, God could speak animals into being in an instant on one day, but that, in and of itself, does not say anything about how long that day lasted afterwards.

You still didn't answer the question of how the command "be fruitful, and multiply" was obeyed by all the different animal species within a single 24 hour period, since other than bacteria and viruses, the gestation periods of most animals is considerably longer than 24 hours.
---StrongAxe on 2/28/16


Jerry, you will be happy to learn that I went--along with my monastic superior to Church today--on Saturday.

The service was called Great Vespers, and it is an ancient and venerable service that happens every night. It is the actual beginning of Sunday
services, but it happens every night.

Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

All of the days start at the evening. If you are going to church Sabbath morning, then why are you disobeying God's commands.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/28/16


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axe: "If you reject Darwin on basis of order, you must reject part of Genesis on the same basis."

Preposterous! If only you Darwinians would reject the anti-science of Darwin as readily as you reject the Holy Scriptures, you would become enlightened - since you are mixing darkness (error) with light (the truth of Scripture).

I reject Darwin because it is false science, it has no truth to support it. Whereas, the Bible IS truth and is supported by science.

Your monkey gene comparison is an example of the childishness of Darwinian conjecture. Darwin also thought that whales came from bears because he once saw one swimming. And for this you reject the beautiful Word of our Savior?




---jerry6593 on 2/28/16


cluny: "Notice that jerry did not actually answer my questions."

Sure I did. Perhaps you should re-read my posts. I'm still waiting for you to make good on your promise to start keeping the REAL Sabbath.




---jerry6593 on 2/28/16


StrongAxe, first of all, you misquoted me.

Second, drug resistant bacteria does not prove evolution. It proves natural section. These aren't new "bugs". They are simply descendents of the bugs that were already naturally resistant.
---trey on 2/28/16


Notice that jerry did not actually answer my questions.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/27/16


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micha9344:

You wrote: Evolution, especially Darwinism, is diametrically opposed to God's Word.

You say this, and many believe this is true, but many also believe it is false. You'll have to do better than that.

Kinds do not create other kinds.

One puzzle in evolution is why Apes have 24 chromosome pairs, while humans have only 23, impossible if they had common ancestry. But one human chromosome turns out to have an end-sequence in the MIDDLE - consistent with two chromosomes becoming welded together end-to-end, supporting common ancestry.

The order of creation in Genesis 2 conflicts with that in Genesis 1. If you reject Darwin on basis of order, you must reject part of Genesis on the same basis.
---StrongAxe on 2/27/16


StrongAxe: "Yes, but it doesn't say HOW he did it."

cluny: "And how long did it take each command to be executed?

Are you guys really that biblically illiterate?

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.



---jerry6593 on 2/27/16


cluny: "jerry, when you start observing the commandment about not bearing false witness against others, then I'll take you seriously about observing the Saturday Sabbath."

Fair enough. I suspect you are referring to the time I mistakenly called you a liberal Democrat, since that's the only thing I have said that's untrue. I'm sorry. I should have called you a liberal RINO, but how was I to know? You, on the other hand, have persistently broken God's Ten Commandment Law, including the one proscribing lying.

OK, now will you keep your promise and begin keeping the REAL Sabbath? I doubt it.



---jerry6593 on 2/27/16


\\Jerry said, "Like Samuel, I am not trying to judge you, but rather to teach the keeping of ALL God's Ten Commandments. It is God who will ultimately judge you by His Law.\\

jerry, when you start observing the commandment about not bearing false witness against others, then I'll take you seriously about observing the Saturday Sabbath.

Fair enough?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/26/16


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Jerry said, "Like Samuel, I am not trying to judge you, but rather to teach the keeping of ALL God's Ten Commandments. It is God who will ultimately judge you by His Law."

Okay Jerry, we understand that you feel that Saturday is the correct day to worship God. Others here feel it should be Sunday. I feel that EVERY day is important, and that God should be worshiped at all times. And as a result, I chose a monastic life where every day is filled with prayer and worship.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/26/16


Please elaborate, someone.
---Cluny on 2/26/16

I do not believe in the six-24 hour creation theory. A close reading of Genesis 1 leaves holes in the 24 hour narrative.

For example, Gen. 1:1 says God created the heavens, plural, not only Earth's atmosphere but all three heavens, including the heavenly beings and the real instruments of the tabernacle. No time is given for this to taken place. Also remember Satan and 1/3 of angels fall sometime.

On the third day God creates grasses and trees. But grasses and trees take months/years to grow and mature.

On the fifth day God creates fish and birds and tells them to be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters. Birds and fish take weeks/months to reproduce.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/26/16


Evolution, especially Darwinism, is diametrically opposed to God's Word.
Gen 1:21,25,27 So God created great sea creatures...according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind...God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind....So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them.
Kinds do not create other kinds.
Birds came before reptiles.
These are in opposition to evolution.
The question is: Which do you truly believe, evolutionary theory, or God's written Word?
---micha9344 on 2/26/16


If the days of Creation were 24 hours, measured from evening to morning, at what time of day did God give the various creative commands?

In the evening?

After the sun came up?

And how long did it take each command to be executed?

Instantaneously?

Several hours?

The entire 24 hour period?

Please elaborate, someone.

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/26/16


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jerry6593:

You wrote: The two ARE indeed mutually incompatible! The Bible says God did it

Yes, but it doesn't say HOW he did it. Genesis 1 provides precious few details on just how all the many different and diverse species came into being. Science attempts to fill in some of the gaps. This does not make the two incompatible.

and that in a very short time by "speaking" matter and living creatures into existence.

Again, "short time" is a matter for debate.

Darwin says "we don't need no stinkin' god"

No, he didn't. That is the straw man that anti-Darwinist Christians put into his mouth, just to demolish in abject theological horror.
---StrongAxe on 2/26/16


trey wrote:

We can observe natural selection in real time, e.g. drug-resistant bacteria.

Due to random variation, a few bacteria are more drug resistant. When exposed to drugs, most bacteria die, but more resistant ones survive. Within a few generations, the only survivors are all descendents of the resistant ones, and the species appears to have "learned" drug resistance, even though this is a totally non-directed and mindless process based mostly on luck.

Do you have a "biblical science" explanation for this improvement?

After looking at our current choices for President of the USA, I have to agree with scripture.

What does scripture say about presidential choices?
---StrongAxe on 2/26/16


StrongAxe: "The very question itself assumes that the two are mutually incompatible - which is, itself, in dispute."

The two ARE indeed mutually incompatible! The Bible says God did it, and that in a very short time by "speaking" matter and living creatures into existence. Darwin says "we don't need no stinkin' god", and that creatures made themselves accidentally over vast periods of time.

The question I keep asking is why would a Christian go with Darwinism in any form? What is the compelling evidence - scientific or otherwise - that dissuades a Christian from following the Word of his Lord in favor of an unsubstantiated atheistic theory?

I'd like to know.


---jerry6593 on 2/26/16


Darwinism teaches that species are evolving and getting better and more superior through natural selection.

The bible teaches that due to the fall of Adam in the garden we are now devolving. Death has entered creation. Even the spin of the earth is slowing as all creation dies.

Darwinism is science falsely so called. See 1st Timothy 6:20.

After looking at our current choices for President of the USA, I have to agree with scripture.
---trey on 2/26/16


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jerry6593:

You wrote: Back on topic, Is there any compelling reason why a Christian would choose Darwin over the Bible?

The very question itself assumes that the two are mutually incompatible - which is, itself, in dispute.

In this way, it's like the classic question "have you stopped beating your wife?", which has no reasonable answer, as it begins with assumptions that are in themselves incorrect (i.e. that you have a wife, and that you had beaten her at some time).

Math teaches us 2+2=4. Do you believe math, or the Bible? (see how silly that sounds?)
---StrongAxe on 2/25/16


Leon: "We are not under the Law."

You have wandered off topic, but I'll play along since you were nice enough not to call me names this time.

If you are not under "the law" then you are not under the new covenant in which "God's Law" is written on your heart. The expression "the law" can have any of several meanings, from the entire writings of Moses to the ancient Hebrew system of sacrifices or even the Ten Commandments. You have misapplied that which pertains to the sacrificial system to the Ten Commandments.

Back on topic, Is there any compelling reason why a Christian would choose Darwin over the Bible?


---jerry6593 on 2/25/16


...I am not to judge others but it is okay for them to judge me.

Nevertheless I must abide by the words of the Bible and not judge others.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/23/16

But, you are whining about why we won't join you in your confusions. You are not found abiding by words of Scripture.
We've only judged for ourselves that you are not one to follow or associate by reason of your false doctrines of men. We have rebuked you by scripture and you & J still cannot see. Your judge is not us.
You honor and follow a woman, a false prophetess/priestess teacher.
Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
---Trav on 2/24/16


Jerry, you are again speaking for those who are under the law. We are not under the Law. You want to take those under grace and put them again under the law.
I cannot make you understand or make you believe anything. It has to come to you by God. There is no use promoting the law. Now those under grace have been bought with a prize. We will go to the Judgment Seat of Christ. And when those under the law stand before God, they will be judge at the Great White Throne of Judgment. Two different places. You don't want to be under the law Jerry, the road is very wide.
---Luke on 2/24/16


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Luke: "God will not judge those in Christ by the law."

Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.



---jerry6593 on 2/23/16


\\But here and other places I often find myself judged for keeping the Sabbath and supporting it.
\\

You can't accuse me of having done so.

The only thing I do is point out that the Decalogue commands rest from labor--nothing about worship.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/23/16


Jerry, you say:
"Like Samuel, I am not trying to judge you, but rather to teach the keeping of ALL God's Ten Commandments. It is God who will ultimately judge you by His Law."

God will not judge those in Christ by the law. They are not under the law. The Christian goes to the Judgment Seat of Christ where his wrong will be burn, and he will get rewarded for his goods. Those under the law, like you suggest, will go to the Great White Throne of Judgment, where they will be judge by the breakings of the law. I believe you have no clue what it is to be under grace since you always speak for the Law. When you come under grace then you will understand what it is to be in Christ.
---Luke on 2/23/16


Samuelbb7:

You wrote: So I often run into a double standard. I am not to judge others but it is okay for them to judge me.

That is the nature of life. When God gives us commandments on how to deal with others, they aren't contingent on others obeying those same commandments relative to us (e.g. thou shalt not steal from those who don't steal from you, etc.) The Golden Rule is "do unto others as YOU WOULD HAVE THEM do unto you", not "as they do unto you".
---StrongAxe on 2/23/16


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StrongAxe: "Paul said we are to NOT ALLOW anyone to judge us with respect to Holy days and Sabbath days."

Like Samuel, I am not trying to judge you, but rather to teach the keeping of ALL God's Ten Commandments. It is God who will ultimately judge you by His Law.

Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto ALL thy commandments.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


---jerry6593 on 2/23/16


Strong Ax agreed we are not to judge others. But that does not mean we cannot teach that the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments which Jesus kept on earth and which the Bible never changes or sets up any other day is still in effect.

But we cannot judge others since we don't know their hearts. But here and other places I often find myself judged for keeping the Sabbath and supporting it.

So I often run into a double standard. I am not to judge others but it is okay for them to judge me.

Nevertheless I must abide by the words of the Bible and not judge others.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/23/16


jerry6593:

You seem to do so. They are very plain. Some (like you) treat some days (e.g. Saturday) as more holy than others. Others (like I) treat and days as equally holy.

Paul said we are to NOT ALLOW anyone to judge us with respect to Holy days and Sabbath days. Yes, know the theory that these are holiday sabbaths, not normal sabbaths, but if that were the case, why would Paul mention them twice? He did because Holy days and Sabbath days were TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

If you find Paul to contradict God, you should examine your own interpretation

Because, of course, YOUR own interpretations could never be wrong, could it?

but he never mentioned observing Sunday as holy.

And I haven't either.
---StrongAxe on 2/22/16


StrongAxe: Many people are like you in that they misinterpret Paul's words. Even Peter admitted that they were difficult. And although Paul's words may seem unclear, God's Commandments are clear as crystal.

But what you have done is pit Paul against God Himself, and have chosen Paul over God. If you find Paul to contradict God, you should examine your own interpretation, as Paul would never do such a thing. That he was accustomed to Sabbath observance is well documented in Scripture, but he never mentioned observing Sunday as holy.



---jerry6593 on 2/22/16


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jerry6593:

You wrote: Exo 20:8-11

Yet Paul wrote in Romans 14:15 (and he was the Pharisee's Pharisee - surely HE knew the ramifications of the Law on Christians):
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Nevertheless you judge me in particular (not to mention 99% of the other poeple on these blogs) on this issue, even though Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I would be violating Paul's commandment if I were to ALLOW you to do this to me, and us. So I don't.
---StrongAxe on 2/20/16


StrongAxe: "Please show exactly which "commandments of God" I have chosen not to obey."

Exo 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.



---jerry6593 on 2/20/16


jerry6593:

You wrote: StrongAxe: That sounds like excuse making to me. God gives us Commandments. You choose to not obey. That sounds like disobedience, no matter how you spin it.

Please show exactly which "commandments of God" I have chosen not to obey.

cluny: You are petty, irrelevant and unable to engage in adult conversations. Come back when you grow up.

A message containing only this and nothing else is 100% pure ad hominem attack and 0% direct or indirect discussion of the blog topic. So who is racing to run out the 75-message limit here?
---StrongAxe on 2/20/16


Jerry said, " cluny & monk:...to fill up the 75 responses limit so that your pro-Darwinist leanings... blah blah blah."

First, I have no intention of filling up the 75 posts on this blog. I have too much to do.

Nor am I pro-Darwin. I have stated categorically that I think Darwin was a loon, and that he was deluded.

On the Origin of Species leaves much to be desired, in that there are too many things that have to happen "by chance" in just the right order to make beautiful things like roses and hummingbirds. I look at those things, and I can see the wonder of God.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/19/16


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\\cluny & monk: It is evident that you are trying to fill up the 75 responses limit so that your pro-Darwinist leanings are not exposed on this blog. \\

More lies from jerry.

Both of us have said we are not Darwinists.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/19/16


cluny & monk: It is evident that you are trying to fill up the 75 responses limit so that your pro-Darwinist leanings are not exposed on this blog. What a shame that you can't participate in a rational discussion of the blog subject without all the childish outbursts.



---jerry6593 on 2/19/16


Notice, class:

jerry has told lies about both me and Brendan...but **I** am petty.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/18/16


Jerry said, " cluny: You are petty, irrelevant and unable to engage in adult conversations. Come back when you grow up."

Oh, right, Jerry, when you can't get your way because Cluny is mentally superior to you, you rant and call him names. Is this adult behavior?

Pick up your ball and bat and go home!

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/18/16


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cluny: You are petty, irrelevant and unable to engage in adult conversations. Come back when you grow up.




---jerry6593 on 2/18/16


// As God is outside of time, He is not bound by our understanding of time... I am not sure about Adam, as he was living in Eden. However, Noah and the others lived 24 hour days. //

While I agree God is outside of time, I think many would say, including myself, that in Genesis 1:1, God created time ("in the beginning"), space ("heaven"), and matter ("earth").

So, if "time" was there at the outset of Genesis, why would it be any different for Adam than it was for Noah?
---jason9835 on 2/17/16


\\You choose to not obey. That sounds like disobedience, no matter how you spin it.\\

You disobey the one about not bearing false witness, jerry.

You've told several lies about me here.

You keep on repeating the lie that Brendan believes Darwin.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/17/16


StrongAxe: That sounds like excuse making to me. God gives us Commandments. You choose to not obey. That sounds like disobedience, no matter how you spin it.



---jerry6593 on 2/17/16


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All dichotomies are false.
---john1944 on 2/16/16


Micha said, " How long is today in "God's eternal timeline"?

As God is outside of time, He is not bound by our understanding of time, be it seconds, minutes, hours, days or years.

"How long was a day to Moses?, Abraham?, Noah?, Adam?"

I am not sure about Adam, as he was living in Eden. However, Noah and the others lived 24 hour days.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/16/16


jerry6593:

You need to understand the difference between "prescriptive text" (that defines rules) and "descriptive text" (that merely clarifies their ramifications).

Some scriptures say "Who disobeys law X will die. Whoever does not disobey it will not die". The second sentence is just descriptive (e.g. does NOT promise immortality for those who obey. Some bibles say so in footnotes because some people actually don't get this).

Look at all the other scriptures that talk about the Sabbath. There are many that speak of the punishment for working on the seventh day, but none that condemn NOT working on any of the other six (e.g. nobody was ever stoned for working 5 instead of 6 days).
---StrongAxe on 2/16/16


Jerry, the only reason I know is that the person couldn't possibly be save. Everyone who is lost has no reason to believe in the Word of God. They find many reason to oppose it. They just don't have faith in the Word. So the answer has to be that the person is not saved. They have to have faith in God. They just don't.
---Luke on 2/16/16


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cluny: "Actually, God ALLOWED work the other six days. He did not command it."

What? Are you really that dense? God wrote:

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

It's called a COMMANDMENT - not a SUGGESTION.

There's a difference, but I don't expect you to grasp it.

Obedience to God seems to mean nothing to you. Are all faux-Orthodox equally rebellious against God's commands?



---jerry6593 on 2/16/16


People we agree with are genuine, and people we don't agree with are nut jobs. Makes perfect sense!
---john1944 on 2/15/16


How long is today in "God's eternal timeline"?
How long was a day to Moses?, Abraham?, Noah?, Adam?
They were all the same length-1 morning, 1 evening, 1 daytime, 1 nighttime i.e. 1 revolution of the Earth - with or without the Sun.
There are 12 hours each of daylight and darkness in the Hebrew mindset.
To retrofit minutes and seconds would be in error.
The sun "arose" in the first hour and "set" in the 12th hour.
The moon was used for months, new moon being the 1st and full moon being the 15th.
Growth and harvest were used for years-when certain plant came forth and when they were ripe.
When God tells us He made the Earth in 6 days, each with a morning and an evening, it was 24 hour days.
---micha9344 on 2/15/16


\\monk: The Fourth Commandment not only commands rest on the seventh day, but work on the other six. Do you work on Sundays?\\

Actually, God ALLOWED work the other six days. He did not command it.

There's a difference, but I don't expect you to grasp it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/15/16


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Jerry said, "Darwin and his ilk ARE wrong. Prove they are not."

I do not have to prove anything. I have stated before that I feel that Darwin was a loon, and deluded.

Please don't put me on the side of the devils when I am not. I agree with you that God created the universe. I have never said otherwise. The only problem I have with your message is the six 24 hour days. And if you look at previous posts, I even agree with you that it took six days. The only disagreement we have is how long a "day" is in GOD'S ETERNAL TIMELINE

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/14/16


monk: The Fourth Commandment not only commands rest on the seventh day, but work on the other six. Do you work on Sundays?



john: "Christians have no more business believing Darwin than they have believing Kepler or Copernicus."

Kepler and Copernicus were REAL scientists. Darwin was a nut job.


---jerry6593 on 2/15/16


Christians have no more business believing Darwin than they have believing Kepler or Copernicus.
---john1944 on 2/14/16


Jerry quoted: "Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to WORSHIP before me, saith the LORD."

Jerry,that is a prophecy about the New Heaven and New Earth, and it is not a command. It is a prophecy, and not a command that all men must worship on that particular day, or any other.

BTW, if there is a Divine Liturgy on Saturday, or any other day of the week, I will try to attend.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/13/16


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monk: "Nowhere in Scripture is WORSHIP commanded on Saturday."

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to WORSHIP before me, saith the LORD.

If you're still confused about which day of the week is the seventh, you could look at a calendar or in any dictionary or encyclopedia.

I'm not aware of any "SDA Calendar". Most any calendar will do. The US Naval Observatory has confirmed that the weekly Sunday-to-Saturday cycle has not changed since the time of Christ. Jesus and all His disciples kept the Sabbath day according to the Commandment. Why not you?


---jerry6593 on 2/13/16


...differences in Genesis one and two are minor ...
Intelligent Design is possible ...
---Samuelbb7 on 2/11/16

Possible? I don't believe in evolution. An unlike you, I never have.
Gen 1, Gen 2 differences are far from minor aligned with the witnesses of scripture.
Gen 1 man was a hunter,gatherer and Gen 2 Man and his wife were tillers. Created in Gen 2. It is pretty simple but, does not suit you so you alter Adam/Israels history. Worse you claim to teach and preach it.
Adam is who the book is written about and his lineage Israel since no other was united or covenanted with GOD.
Deu_32:8 ...when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
---Trav on 2/12/16


Jerry said, "Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ...
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it."


Nowhere in Scripture is WORSHIP commanded on Saturday.

Besides, please tell me which is the true 7th day that God rested, going back through the Jewish calendar (please use your own calculations--you claim to be a physicist, you can do the math--and not the SDA calendar)

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/12/16


trav the differences in Genesis one and two are minor and even though men try to make them two different stories that some latter scholar was too stupid to put together they are missing the point. The second reveals more details.

I used to believe in evolution. But found out it didn't work. Intelligent Design is possible but I prefer to trust the Bible.

By the way the Darwinian style of evolution is out of date.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/11/16


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monk:

Once again, we have [God] trying to get everyone to believe in the idea that God took six 24 hour days to create the earth, and we are commanded by God to worship Him on the seventh day (i.e. Saturday), and that Darwin and his ilk are deluded and wrong.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ...
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Darwin and his ilk ARE wrong. Prove they are not.


---jerry6593 on 2/12/16


Is there any compelling reason why a Christian would choose Darwin over the Bible?
---jerry6593 on 2/10/16

Foolish, indoctrinated churches lack of ability/blindness to give witnesses in scripture is why.
Christian children are rarely shown differences in Gen 1 and a Gen 2.
Or that all men did not come from Noah and there was never a global flood nor any evidence of it. Or about "all" Israel and their covenant.
Or that GOD created science and the scriptures are not unaligned with science but, mens doctrines are.
Deu_32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
---Trav on 2/11/16


Once again, we have Jerry trying to get everyone to believe in the idea that God took six 24 hour days to create the earth, and we are commanded by God to worship Him on the seventh day (i.e. Saturday), and that Darwin and his ilk are deluded and wrong.

Jerry, I'm praying for you,
Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/11/16


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