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What Is Theopneustos

Some say that theopneustos means that God took over the will of the prophets, and caused them to write exactly what He meant to say, nothing more, and nothing less. I believe that theopneustos means that the prophets cooperated with God, so they were able to write the Word. What do you think?

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I agree. But as you read the Gospel he was using it to show the church the truth. He was writing to the established Christians to increase their faith and help them oppose the Gnostics.

He picked his points especially John 1 to show who Jesus is.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/10/16


I think "cooperating" with God is a gift of God. We of ourselves (2 Corinthians 3:5) do not have the nature to submit to God. So, the thanks and glory are purely thanks to Him >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
---Bill on 3/10/16


\\Sir, if this is indeed true, then like you have Previously Stated, "It sounds like Joseph Smith." is true.
\\

Do you think that the writers of the Bible RESISTED and FOUGHT with God?

Samuel--the Gospel St. John wrote is a GOSPEL,. not a letter, unlike the 3 in the NT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/10/16


Brendan said, "I believe that theopneustos means that the prophets cooperated with God, so they were able to write the Word."

Sir, if this is indeed true, then like you have Previously Stated, "It sounds like Joseph Smith." is true.

I would add if your statement is true then it would be no different then Ellen G. White, Mary Baker Eddy, etc.
---john9346 on 3/10/16


The Gospel of John was written to the church over 50 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Gentiles were entering the church by droves. So John who was sending his letter to Gentiles who had now become part of Israel the Church were told it meant them.

When Jesus went to the Samaritan women and the Gentile woman. Why was he showing love to them. Why did he accept the gentiles who came to worship him.

Luke 2:32
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/9/16




"You have to understand Jn 3:16 in the Jewish Mindset God only loved Jews not gentiles that is the context of Jn 3:16." Ok, John I will keep your view in mind as I continue my studies. Thank for sharing.
---joseph on 3/9/16


Joseph said, "I can not receive that definition."

Sir, as I stated to you prior, Jn 3 is addressing Jews and gentiles.

You have to understand Jn 3:16 in the Jewish Mindset God only loved Jews not gentiles that is the context of Jn 3:16.

You actually are disagreeing with how do we believe, and this is how Jesus answered the question:



"Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Jn 3:7-8.
---john9346 on 3/9/16


To recap:

1. No author of Scripture ever believed and taught that "Theopneustos." in writing the Scriptures depended on their Cooperation.

2. All authors of Scripture attested that "Theopneustos." was a Sovereign Act of God Alone.

3. The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelations as we have seen when examined and understood in there context do not teach, "Libertarian Freewill."

4. The Doctrine of Libertarian Freewill was condemned by church councils as a heresy and is a young teaching.
---john on 3/9/16


"Josef, I said God calls some individuals and you said: "This is applicable to all men" Luke I have no idea how you are misreading my post. Perhaps I am not being clear. That statement was a response to your comment that reads, "God has to call him, give him faith in order for his eyes to be open and be able to see the glory of Christ." on 3/7 Reread the post. Luke This line was meant to read "Luke, I am happy to hear that, because you could not, even if you tried." Luke if you would read my post carefully before responding, it would be appreciated. I would enjoy an honest exchange. Thank you
---joseph on 3/9/16


"May God Guide You," Thank you John, He does, continually.
The online Strongs includes the definition (any... collection of particulars of any sort, i.e. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews) among its definitions of the greek word kosmos, translated world, although it is not included in the original copyright of the book. I can not receive that definition simply because that implies the John 3:16 could read and teach 'God so loved the [gentiles], that he gave his only begotten Son, [so] that [any gentile that] believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' Personally, I know that Jesus "is the Saviour of all men, 'specially' (chiefly, or above all) of those that believe." 1Ti 4:10

---joseph on 3/8/16




Samuel states, "Predestination teaches GOD hates and despises the majority of people on earth and created them so he can torture them for all eternity."

Sir, first, you were corrected on a prior posting on this same statement.

Ellen G. White did not know the difference between election, predestination, and reprobation.

Your arguments are actually against Election not predestination.


"Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

1 Tim 4:16
---john9346 on 3/9/16


"Josef, I do not want to convince you"
Luke, I am happy to hear that, because you could not, ever if you tried.

"Revelation comes from God." Exactly.
---joseph on 3/9/16


Josef, I said God calls some individuals and you said: "This is applicable to all men"
Josef, if this was applicable to all men, then all men would be saved. And we know for sure that all men are not saved. They are still in darkness. Paul speaking to those who are born again, who can now see, hear who once walked according to the prince and power of the air.
"And you He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the prince and power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, just as the others." Eph. 2:1-3
---Luke on 3/9/16


Luke I receive the verses you've quoted, as with all plainly stated scripture, as written. I would never argue the fact that salvation is of the Lord, I know that no man saves himself. I also respect the Father's sovereign right to choose whom He will. Yet I know that He is the God of all men and "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." For He takes no pleasure in the death of anyone. Jesus is the Saviour of all men, the fact that not all men are saved, gives evidence of the reality that not all men will receive Him, not because they don't have a choice, but rather that they do. Man receives influence from the source he yields himself too. Who he yields himself to is a choice.
---joseph on 3/9/16


Cluny, now stop to think for a minute. We are saved by the Word of God. Now who is the Word of God? Jesus Christ. When you read the Bible it is the Word of God. Now maybe because you are Orthodox you do not believe in the Bible only for salvation, you have to add your traditions as Scriptural, but you are wrong.
---Luke on 3/9/16


\\ Luke, I really like the way you think. Most people cannot see that the doctrine of the scriptures saves far more people than the doctrine taught by James Arminius! \\

I thought it was JESUS Who saves.

After all, the Bible was not crucified for us.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/8/16


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Brendan said, "I do not think that Jesus was saying anything other than whosoever--meaning anyone and everyone that chooses to live for Jesus will have eternal life."

Sir, in Jn 3:16, it states, "Whosoever believes." There is a requirement, "One must believe." does everyone believe??

note:

"Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

"Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Jn 3:5, 7, and 8. and
---john9346 on 3/8/16


Joseph said, "John if that is truly what you believe, I am certainly Ok with that. It is not for me to attempt to convince you otherwise."

Well sir, I can appreciate your respect for accepting ones view being different from yours,however, the truth matters and what we believe will lead to life or destruction.

With much respect to you, I'd recommend Baker's Evangelical Dictionary to study, "Kosmos." in more indeft meaning.

The word has 5 Categorical Meanings.

Sir, Above all, God is sovereign and if he wants to open you or Anyone's Heart and mind to this "Cherish Truth." he will and if not he won't to him be Praised now and forevermore...

May God Guide You,

John
---john on 3/8/16


Doctrine does not save people. Jesus saves us by His Grace.

Predestination teaches GOD hates and despises the majority of people on earth and created them so he can torture them for all eternity.

So a Person can say I am once saved always saved they must decide GOD is hateful.

Remember what TULIP stands for.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/8/16


Luke, I really like the way you think. Most people cannot see that the doctrine of the scriptures saves far more people than the doctrine taught by James Arminius!
If we understand the scriptures properly, they teach that Christ will not lose one of his elect! He saves them all!!!

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (KJV)

Man that's good news!!!
---trey on 3/8/16


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Josef, I do not want to convince you. Revelation comes from God. All I am doing is giving you the word of God. God does want He wants with His word.
At no time can we convince anyone to see what they do not see. It is the power of God that makes people see.
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake."
1 Thessalonians 1:4,5.
The gospel has to come to individuals with the power of God and the Holy Spirit in much assurance.
---Luke on 3/8/16


"Jn 3:16 in using world in context is contrasting Jews and gentiles.---john9346 on 3/7/16"
John if that is truly what you believe, I am certainly Ok with that. It is not for me to attempt to convince you otherwise.
---joseph on 3/8/16


Josef, you want everyone to have the right to be able to choose Christ. But they are slaves to sin. The message of the cross is foolishness to them. Faith has to be given to them in order for them to believe and be save.
"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in Him but also suffer for His sake" Philippians 1:29.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" 1 Cor. 1:18.
"So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy" Romans 9:16.
The Truth is there, you just have to see it.
---Luke on 3/8/16


Joseph states, "Whosoever, again, excludes no one."

Sir, whosoever does exclude because the requirement is one must, "Believe." in order to have everlasting life.

kosmo

"any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort."

You see, contain exclusivity in meaning.

Jn 3:16 in using world in context is contrasting Jews and gentiles.
---john9346 on 3/7/16


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Brendan, Samuel, and Joseph,

Note following verses God has all ready chosen/elected who will believe.

Note, "Gave." referring to the believers.

"for You gave Him authority
over all flesh,[a]
so He may give eternal life
to all You have given Him."

"I have revealed Your name
to the men You gave Me from the world.
They were Yours, You gave them to Me,
and they have kept Your word."

"While I was with them,
I was protecting them by Your name
that You have given Me.
I guarded them and not one of them is lost,
except the son of destruction,[d]
so that the Scripture may be fulfilled."


Jn 17:2, 6, and 12.
---john9346 on 3/7/16


Brendan, Samuel, and Joseph,

Note following verses God has all ready chosen/elected who will believe.

Note, "Gave and given." referring to the believers.

"for You gave Him authority
over all flesh,[a]
so He may give eternal life
to all You have given Him."

"I have revealed Your name
to the men You gave Me from the world.
They were Yours, You gave them to Me,
and they have kept Your word."

"While I was with them,
I was protecting them by Your name
that You have given Me.
I guarded them and not one of them is lost,
except the son of destruction,[d]
so that the Scripture may be fulfilled."





Jn 17:2, 6, 9, and 12.
---john on 3/7/16


"Josef, why would God give the lost a choice for salvation if He already knows who He is going to call and save?" Luke, Father does all things according to the counsel of His own will. We were all "lost" at one time, and Jesus came to seek and to save the lost.
"God has to call him, give him faith in order for his eyes to be open and be able to see the glory of Christ." This is applicable to all men.
---joseph on 3/7/16


John 9346 said, "Whosoever." believes does everyone believe??

Also, the word "World." in Jn 3:16 does not mean everybody of the entire Human Race."


Did He just create just some of the people walking around today to be sentient, thinking people with a moral conscience? I don't believe so.

And what is He thinking about if He does not mean everybody that has ever lived, is living now, or will ever live in the future?

I do not think that Jesus was saying anything other than whosoever--meaning anyone and everyone that chooses to live for Jesus will have eternal life.
---Monk_Brendan on 3/7/16


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Amen Joseph, cluny and Monk Brendan.

We can agree on some things. GOD gives us the choice on whether to be saved or lost. We are not forced to be saved.

2Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The usward is all human being.

Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/7/16


"Yes sir, i'd invite you to look up the word, "Kosmos." which means world."
I have John, and yes, it means 1.) the world and it's inhabitants, literally or figuratively. It excludes no one. 2.) The word also references this carnally based system of things that entice and seduces the senses through its adornments, and includes those who advocate and conform to that system due to their sense knowledge dependency.
"I am not praying for the world,"
He's referring the second aforementioned definition of the word world .
"but for those you have given me, for they are yours."
Those given Him are those who believe. Whosoever, again, excludes no one.
---joseph on 3/7/16


Josef, why would God give the lost a choice for salvation if He already knows who He is going to call and save? If He gave them a choice, God would not know who would choose Him? God knows everything. He is not only Omniscience, which means "to have all (Omni) knowledge (science), which only applies to God alone. God, being infinite, is able to be aware of all things, to understand all things, and to comprehend all things. He never learns anything or acquires new knowledge. The future as well as the past and present are completely known to Him.
The lost make choices, but never for Christ, they are blind to the things of God. God has to call him, give him faith in order for his eyes to be open and be able to see the glory of Christ.
---Luke on 3/7/16


\\Joseph said, "No, but it is not because they are excluded."

" I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."\\

John 3:16 uses the Greek word KOSMOS.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/16


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Joseph ask, "What does it mean John9346, and please document your view."

Yes sir, i'd invite you to look up the word, "Kosmos." which means world.

Joseph said, "No, but it is not because they are excluded."

" I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

John 17:9

Deut 30:19-20 is a General Calling, it is not an Effectual Call by God.

Josh 24:15 is also a General Calling not an Effectual Calling.
---john9346 on 3/7/16


"Also, the word "World." in Jn 3:16 does not mean everybody of the entire Human Race." What does it mean John9346, and please document your view. For the way I understand it, whosoever means just that, and doesn't excluded any of the human race.
"Whosoever." believes does everyone believe??" No, but it is not because they are excluded. Father prompts all men to believe, and empowers their belief. However He does not force belief upon any one, He allows a choice by His own words, " I have set before you life and death, the blessing, and the curse. So choose life." Choice demands an option. It's the hardheartedness of the tares that refuses His promptings.
---joseph on 3/6/16


Brendan said, "
I disagree. If what you are saying is true, then God has chosen which of us is to be saved, and which is to be damned."

Yes Sir, you are absolutely correct have you ever read Eph 1:4, Rom 8:29-30, 9:9-23?

John 3:16 note, "Whosoever." believes does everyone believe??


Also, the word "World." in Jn 3:16 does not mean everybody of the entire Human Race.
---john9346 on 3/6/16


Monk, you say:
"I disagree. If what you are saying is true, then God has chosen which of us is to be saved, and which is to be damned."


God has chosen who has been called and also those who have not been called yet. Some have not been born yet. When the sum of all the elect are called the Second Coming will be here.
God know who they are because He chose them before the foundation of the world. How can the lost chose Christ? They have no faith.
"For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" 1 Cor. 1:18.
---Luke on 3/5/16


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John 9346 said, "The Scriptures do not teach Libertarian Freewill. While we do have the ability to make choices, our wills are never free to choose to do sin or to do righteousness."

I disagree. If what you are saying is true, then God has chosen which of us is to be saved, and which is to be damned. THAT is incompatible with Scripture. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whosoever means anyone, and not just some chosen elect.
---Monk_Brendan on 3/4/16


Free Will is that GOD has given us the right to choose. We fail in choosing correctly to not sin many times because of our fallen nature. But many choose to not do certain sins even in their fallen states.

But when we are convicted by the Power of the Holy Spirit we can choose to accept Jesus or reject him.

We choose to do the sin we wish to do.

God does not use force to save us or make us lost.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/16


Brendan said, "Free will is something that God has, correct? If we are made in His image, then we have free will."

Sir, so, you believe in what is called, "Libertarian Freewill."

The Scriptures do not teach Libertarian Freewill. While we do have the ability to make choices, our wills are never free to choose to do sin or to do righteousness

see Rom 3:10-18, 6:16-22, and Matt 10:24-25.

The examples I provided shows God's Eternal Decree/will and God's Perscriptive Will.

Adam eating the apple is an example of God's Perscriptive Will,however, Gen 2 is God's Eternal Decree/will.
---john9346 on 3/3/16


John 9346 said, "Sir, tell me, what is your definition of freewill?

Your examples are all exercises in Man's free will. Free will is something that God has, correct? If we are made in His image, then we have free will. Free will is being able to make up your own mind, to make a choice, good or bad. When you buy a car, God cares about the car you choose. But He does not send down angels to keep you from buying the Corvette and make you buy the Ford.

When Adam ate the fruit, if was because Adam wanted to do so, and not because God caused it to happen. That would make God the author of evil.

Rather, God allowed Adam to choose, and then stepped in to clean up the mess.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/3/16


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Brendan said, "As far as an involuntary take over by God, that invalidates our free will."

Sir, tell me, what is your definition of freewill?


God does have 2 "Wills." "An Eternal Decree." and a "Perscriptive Will."

Deut 30:19-20 is God's Perscriptive Will.

Josh 24:15 is God's Perscriptive Will.

Joseph being sold in to slavery is God's Eternal Decree.

Esau giving up his Birth Right is God's Eternal Decree.
---john9346 on 3/2/16


I am with you Monk Brendan on this one.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/2/16


A Servant said, "Making his hand leprous was giving Moses leprosy, no matter how little or how long.

I never said the Bible used this descriptive term. A puppeteer is one who cannot be prevented by the manipulated. This correctly describes God's control over Moses, David, Paul, etc.

Causing men to speak involuntarily is much more than inspiring them - 2 Sam 23:2, Acts 6:10, 2 Pt 1:21.

Trust Scripture. Ask God to help you understand what He has Authored."


I do trust God. I trust Him for every breath I take, and every beat of my heart.

As far as an involuntary take over by God, that invalidates our free will.

Study Deut 30:19-20
---Monk_Brendan on 2/29/16


David said, "The Protestant church teaches, "Gods Grace is unmerited". That very teaching is the source."


Sir, just remember, when you state a claim as you have and can not provide the source/authority after being asked "3 times." and you are still unable to do so. Its really shows those reading and viewing your credibility.

Brendan had it right when he said to someone in a post, "If one thing that you have said is wrong, then how can I trust the others?"
---john9346 on 2/26/16


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aservant, are you saying that the OT was not theopnevstos until several centuries after it was written down?
---Cluny on 2/25/16


Not at all.

God has the ability to be everywhere at all times = Omnipresent. That also means that He is in yesterday, today, and tomorrow simultaneously. Thus His Authoring (Breathing) of Scripture has no time restraints, and He is always Authoring in His present.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable . . . (is = present tense, not 'was' given)

Ps 90:2 . . . from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. (not 'was' God)

Jn 8:58 . . . I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (not 'was')
---aservant on 2/26/16


aservant, are you saying that the OT was not theopnevstos until several centuries after it was written down?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/25/16


From:Wikipedia

The Masoretic[1] Text (MT, & #120184,, or \mathfrak{M}) is the authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Tanakh for Rabbinic Judaism
. . . These include Greek and Syriac translations, quotations from rabbinic manuscripts, the Samaritan Pentateuch and others such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Many of these are older than the Masoretic text . . .

2Ti 3:16 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God . . . (Including the OT)

Since God causes men to speak involuntarily - 2 Sam 23:2, Acts 6:10, 2 Pt 1:21, it is easy to see that He can make them write as He wishes.
---aservant on 2/24/16


Will someone please answer my question about which is the theopnevstos version of the Hebrew OT?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/24/16


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Brendan,

1. Sir, it was God's Plan for Jonah to run see verse 17 ch 1.

2. In 1 Sam 10, note verses 1,6, and 9. There was no participation from Saul, but God alone.

3. Listen to what David said as far as God needing his participation:

"For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.

Ps., 33:9.
---john9346 on 2/24/16


. . . only his hand that was leprous. Ex 4:6 . . .

. . . "puppet" does not appear in the KJV . . .

David . . . open to inspiration.

. . . how can I trust the others?
---Monk_Brendan on 2/21/16



Making his hand leprous was giving Moses leprosy, no matter how little or how long.

I never said the Bible used this descriptive term. A puppeteer is one who cannot be prevented by the manipulated. This correctly describes God's control over Moses, David, Paul, etc.

Causing men to speak involuntarily is much more than inspiring them - 2 Sam 23:2, Acts 6:10, 2 Pt 1:21.

Trust Scripture. Ask God to help you understand what He has Authored.
---aservant on 2/22/16


First, it was only his hand that was leprous. Ex 4:6 And the Lord said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow.
7 And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again, and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh.

The word, "puppet" does not appear in the KJV, nor in a few others that I checked. However, David was a willing servant of God, therefore open to inspiration.

If one thing that you have said is wrong, then how can I trust the others?
---Monk_Brendan on 2/21/16


. . . I was talking about FREE WILL two words, and not about offerings at all.
---Monk_Brendan on 2/20/16


FYI, the phrase "free will" DOES NOT appear in the KJV Bible (yet, does appear in a few translations). You said that God will not MAKE any man do anything.

The empirical evidence in all Bible translations disagrees with you.

Titus 1:2 . . . God, that cannot lie . . .
Heb 6:18 . . . impossible for God to lie . . .

God gave Moses leprosy. David's mouth spoke as he was puppeteered by the Holy Spirit. Paul was blinded by God. God's nation wandered 40 years. None gave God permission to do so. Which of these could stop God?
---aservant on 2/20/16


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Aservant said, "Sorry Monk, not true. EVERY VERSE re freewill is regarding offerings, not behavior."

Sorry Aservant, but I was talking about FREE WILL two words, and not about offerings at all.

There is nowhere in the Bible that says that God took over a man and him do something that he did not want to do. Even Jonah, who ran away from God's will was pressed into dire surroundings, so that he repented, and THEN God had the fish vomit him up to dry land.

Yes, there is the bit in in 1 Sam 10:10-12 where Saul was caught up in prophesying, but he was already a willing servant of the Lord, and cooperating with Him.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/20/16


God has given us a free will. He will never take over our body and mind and MAKE us do anything.
---Monk_Brendan on 2/18/16


-->Sorry Monk, not true. EVERY VERSE re freewill is regarding offerings, not behavior.

17 verses found, 17 matches

Lev 4 verses found
Num 2 verses found
Deut 4 verses found
2 Chr 1 verse found
Ezra 5 verses found
Ps 1 verse found

Commandments are not about freewill. Obey or pay the cost with sacrifices.

-->You didn't answer: Which man did God first ask permission to use his body to speak?

-->Ex 4 God gave Moses a leprous hand to make him face Pharaoh
---aservant on 2/20/16


Brendan said, "The current discussion is about God dictating the Word to His prophets, or taking over their mind, will, and emotion and forcing them to write exactly what He wants."

"For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.

"The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations."
Ps. 33:9 and 11.


Remember You recently stated on another blog, "If the Holy Spirit is God (which He is), then God can do anything,"
---john9346 on 2/19/16


John 9346 said, "Sir, What does this have to do with the current discussion at hand??"

The current discussion is about God dictating the Word to His prophets, or taking over their mind, will, and emotion and forcing them to write exactly what He wants.

I don't believe that is what theopneustos means. Theopneustos is the prophet listening and cooperating fully with God, and God using the prophet--with his cooperation--using his mind, emotions, passions, vocabulary, and personality to speak out God's Word.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/19/16


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Which version of the Hebrew scriptures is theopnevstos: the original text which had no vowels or breaks between words?

Or the Massoretic text which has word breaks and vowel points, but was not stabilized until hundreds of years after Christ?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/19/16


Brendan said, "
God has given us a free will. He will never take over our body and mind and MAKE us do anything. That would make us nothing but robots. As God has free will, then we, who are made in His image, also have free will, and God will never take that away."

Sir, What does this have to do with the current discussion at hand??
---john9346 on 2/18/16


Aservant said, "
Isn't God the Owner of ALL men? Which of these did God ask if it was OK that He spoke using their bodies? There is no human will that God cannot overcome."


God has given us a free will. He will never take over our body and mind and MAKE us do anything. That would make us nothing but robots. As God has free will, then we, who are made in His image, also have free will, and God will never take that away.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/18/16


Please do not misunderstand me. All scripture is given by Fathers inspiration, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction. However I know that not all scripture is quoting Him. The only verses I receive as quotes are the verse that open with Thus saith the LORD or a similar phrase. Although I believe everything written is truly stated, I do not believe everything written is a statement of truth. Why? One clear example, "After the LORD had finished speaking to Job, He said to Eliphaz the Temanite: I am angry with you and your two friends, for you have not spoken the truth about Me, as My servant Job has." Although He inspired their words to be written for the reader to learn by, they were not His words.
---josef on 2/18/16


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Good point Cluny. But I agree with the men inspired understanding.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/18/16


Whether God inspired the very words of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, or whether it was the MESSAGE that was inspired, as God worked through the vocabulary, style, and personalities of the writers is a minor point to me.

I think BOTH sides can agree that the Bible in the original languages says what God intended it to say, and standard translations in whatsoever language adequately convey this message.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/17/16


2Sam 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost . . .

Act 1:16 . . . the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas,

Act 28:25 . . . spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

2Pet 1:21 . . . holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Isn't God the Owner of ALL men? Which of these did God ask if it was OK that He spoke using their bodies? There is no human will that God cannot overcome.

Which human can stop Him?

What part of a human exists that God cannot take control of whenever He wants? See Ex 4:6, Num 12:10.

God made a donkey speak. Num 22
---aservant on 2/17/16


"Second, just because God is speaking through the prophets doesn't mean that He took over their minds to do so."
You are of course correct Monk Brendan, and there was no need. For as quoted by you, "The spirits of prophets, are subject to the control of prophets." And all but Jonah, that I am aware of, willingly submitted their 'spirits', or in other words their (attitudes and dispositions, both emotionally, and mentally) to the Father's Spirit. Just as the true believer does today, by Father's 'grace', as His divine influence upon the 'heart' of man, as the seat of all mental and emotional acuity and focus, from which words flow.
---josef on 2/17/16


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"Okay, sir. First BCV on that quote." John, allow me. Monk Brendan I supplied the verse earlier in this post, Heb 1:1 "Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets." NLT
"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways," NIV
"God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways," NASB
"God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners," ASV
Most of the other versions use the word by. All of which are translations of the Greek word en.
---Josef on 2/17/16


Brendan you said:

"Okay, sir. First BCV on that quote."

Sir, Joseph pointed you back to those verses please listen sir:

Thus said the LORD unto Me..
And the LORD saith,...
And the LORD said unto Cain...
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,....
Hear the word of the LORD....

"Second, just because God is speaking through the prophets doesn't mean that He took over their minds to do so."

The problem with this statement is all of the authors state that God did and they accepted it and died for it.
---john9346 on 2/17/16


John 9346 said, "Sir, according to the prophets themselves, "Yahweh spoke the words through them."

Okay, sir. First BCV on that quote.

Second, just because God is speaking through the prophets doesn't mean that He took over their minds to do so.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/16/16


Brendan said, "
Whose words do you believe followed these declarations?
Did the prophets quote Him?
Or were the words of prophets subject to the control of prophets.
Think about it.""

Sir, according to the prophets themselves, "Yahweh spoke the words through them."
---john9346 on 2/15/16


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Josef said, "Monk Brenden consider this.
Thus said the LORD unto Me...
Hear the word of the LORD...."

Whose words do you believe followed these declarations?
Did the prophets quote Him?
Or were the words of prophets subject to the control of prophets.
Think about it."


There are a few times in the Old Testament where people fall under the influence of a spirit of prophecy (1 Sam 10:10-11) But in the NT and now, The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. (1 Cor 14:32)
---Monk_Brendan on 2/15/16


Monk Brenden consider this.
Thus said the LORD unto Me..
And the LORD saith,...
And the LORD said unto Cain...
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,....
Hear the word of the LORD....
Whose words do you believe followed these declarations?
Did the prophets quote Him?
Or were the words of prophets subject to the control of prophets.
Think about it.
---josef on 2/14/16


1Cor 14:32 says "The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets."

If God is dictating to a prophet, or opening up the mind of a prophet and pouring in what He wants to say, then the spirit of that prophet is not subject to the control of the prophet.

Think about it!

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/13/16


I am not infallible, my thoughts are based on, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers 'by' ("'en'-A primary preposition denoting [a fixed] position [in place, time or state]),the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us 'by' (same word, same definition) his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." It wasn't by Father's dictation, but rather His Divine influence. 'Divine'-"of or relating to a god, especially the Supreme Being". 'Influence'-"the capacity or power of persons or things to be a compelling force on or produce effects on the actions, behavior, opinions, etc., of others".
---josef on 2/12/16


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Josef said, "Thus, theopneustos is inspiration exerted effectively."

But what you are implying is that God takes over a prophet's mind, with or without his cooperation, and pours in what He wants the prophet to say. (But that is called automatic writing--a big no-no among most Christians.) But 1Cor 14:32 says "The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets."

So God must want the prophet's free will and mind to be in the circuit as well as his mouth, so your thoughts about theopneustos must be wrong.
---Monk_Brendan on 2/12/16


Since every author of scripture used different vocabulary, grammar, and writing style, indicating that God allowed them to write in their own words.

Either that, or God dictated them directly in his own words, which change all the time - implying that God is himself schizophrenic. Somehow, I can't imagine that many people here would actually believe that.
---StrongAxe on 2/12/16


Strong's definition of "Thepneustos",-"divinely breathed in:given by inspiration of God." Webster's definition of the word "inspiration" is "an inspiring or animating action or influence". In Theology "a divine influence directly and immediately 'exerted' upon the mind or soul." "Exerted"-"to put forth or into use, as power, exercise, as ability or influence." Given by an animating action or influence, put forth or into use by His 'effective' power. "Effective"-"adequate to accomplish a purpose, producing the intended or expected result." Thus, theopneustos is inspiration exerted effectively.
---josef on 2/11/16


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