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Are All Sins Forgiven

Are sins forgiven BEFORE they are committed?

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 ---aservant on 2/12/16
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David said, "
John
Who do you think your fooling, accusing me of the very thing you are guilty of?
You couldn't prove what you stated on 2/25. Where you stated Spurgeon, Henry, Wesley and Calvin's teachings come from the Gospels of Jesus Christ."

Sir, If you pay attention, many have answered your question my question is directed to the claims of protestantism you are stating of which you still have not given anyone here Sources/authorities.

Remember, you answer questions when they are asked of you, not ask questions when a question is asked of you.
---john9346 on 2/29/16


Can you give BCV telling us what determines "HABITUAL" sin?
---Haz27 on 2/27/16

I already have but I will again.

The words "commit sin" in John 8:34 in Koine Greek are a Present Participle, with the action taking place in the present but the action is continuous, having no beginning and no end. It represents not a one-time event but a habitual or life-style of the action.

For example, if I exceed the speed limit when trying to get my wife to the emergency room, it is sin but it is a one-time event. But, if I exceed the speed limit always whenever I drive, it is sin but it is a habitual, life-style of sin.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/29/16


I've never said we are saved by obedience to the Law. I have said, we can be saved through our obedience to the commands of Jesus Christ.
---David on 2/29/16

Here we finally have the truth.

David does not believe that faith in the shed blood of Jesus saves us but that obedience to the commands or "law" (not the Mosaic Law) saves us.

But, David misses this truth, taught by Jesus himself:

John 3:14-15 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life"

and again...

John 11:26 "And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/29/16


Haz
Here's something for you to consider. If the thief on the cross was saved, and he did not do anything for Jesus to save him, why didn't Jesus save the other man on the cross?
---David on 2/29/16


Are you able to admit that the thief is in paradise without having had to demonstrate any obedience to the law?---Haz27 on 2/28/16

Haz
I've never said we are saved by obedience to the Law. I have said, we can be saved through our obedience to the commands of Jesus Christ.

Paul taught we can not be saved by keeping the Law, but was he was speaking about the Law of Moses, or the Law of Christ?

In (Romans 2:5-7) Paul is writing about the Law of Christ, and if you read it with an open mind, you will see those who keep the Law of Christ, are the ones who will receive Eternal Life.

Funny thing, it's not me, but the Protestant church who teaches one can save themselves by what they do.
---David on 2/29/16




David. God's grace is unmerited.
Rom 3:22-24
This righteousness is GIVEN through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe..... and all are justified FREELY by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

2Cor 5:21
hath made him to be sin FOR US, who knew no sin, that WE MIGHT BE MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in him

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and THIS IS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, not by works, so that NO ONE CAN BOAST
---Haz27 on 2/29/16


Sir, just remember, when you state a claim or claims as you have and can not provide the source/authority after being asked "3 times." and you are still unable to do so. It really shows to those reading and viewing your credibility.--john9346

John
Who do you think your fooling, accusing me of the very thing you are guilty of?
You couldn't prove what you stated on 2/25. Where you stated Spurgeon, Henry, Wesley and Calvin's teachings come from the Gospels of Jesus Christ.

They all taught Gods Grace is Unmerited, a teaching which is not found anywhere in the Gospels.

After your exhaustive 3 day search, I was expecting you to thank me for correcting your error and for putting you back on the right path.
---David on 2/28/16


To answer the question:

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:19 . . . for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
---aservant on 2/28/16


David. Your reply avoided the fact that Jesus said that the thief would be with him in paradise with him.

Are you able to admit that the thief is in paradise without having had to demonstrate any obedience to the law?
---Haz27 on 2/28/16


David said, "The Protestant church teaches, "Gods Grace is unmerited". That very teaching is the source."


Sir, just remember, when you state a claim or claims as you have and can not provide the source/authority after being asked "3 times." and you are still unable to do so. It really shows to those reading and viewing your credibility.

Brendan had it right when he said to someone in a post, "If one thing that you have said is wrong, then how can I trust the others?"

---john9346 on 2/28/16




I'd invite those seeking the truth on what protestants really believe and teach about salvation, justification, sin, grace, etc. to read the following Confessions of Faith:

The Augsburg Confession of Faith,

The Belgic Confession of Faith,

The London Baptist Confession of faith of 1689,

The Westminster Confession of Faith,
---john on 2/28/16


Aservant
Was Paul referring to himself as a slave of sin, or as a slave of righteousness in (Romans 7:15-20)?

Paul also taught a slave can not serve two masters. If we can serve only one, which master do we serve when we sin?
---David on 2/28/16


Some things not taught in time past Gen thru mid Acts
Justification comes by faith without deeds of the law (Rom 3:28).
Grace isn't a license to sin Paul explains (Rom 6:15)
Grace doesn't mean God ignores sin, it means he paid for us. Grace means we stop serving it (Rom 6:16).
We serve God for purchasing us with his blood (1 Cor 6:20).
Grace teaches to live godly. Not by rules we couldn't keep, but by repudiating sin.
Instead of rules of law we have the action of love. Grace reveals the love of God toward us(Rom 5:8)
This love teaches us to live for one who died for us(2 Cor 5:14-15)
Grace is the ability to live holy lives IN CHRIST without the condemnation of the law. (1 Thess 4:7)
God forgives all sin
---michael_e on 2/28/16


This might help understanding.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: what I would, that do I not, but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 . . . for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
---aservant on 2/28/16


Let's say, for example, smoking is a sin (which it is not anyway), and that the thief on the cross next to Jesus was a chain smoking thief. Even though that thief never gave up smoking, he still entered paradise with Jesus.

Haz
Show me BCV where it says, Jesus and the thief went to Heaven on the day they died.

Perhaps we are reading from different translations. My KJV has led me to believe Jesus ascended into Heaven after he arose from the dead, And that was three days after he died.
---David on 2/28/16


David. Let's use your smoking analogy.

Let's say, for example, smoking is a sin (which it is not anyway), and that the thief on the cross next to Jesus was a chain smoking thief. Even though that thief never gave up smoking, he still entered paradise with Jesus.

But then what about the Christian smoker who lives for several decades believing on Jesus (just like that thief on the cross) yet could not break the smoking habit? You seem to be saying that God is unjust because he allowed the thief entry into paradise without any physical works such as giving up smoking, whilst Christians who live for many years are expected to be perfect in every regard (according to you).

I hope you see your contradiction.
---Haz27 on 2/28/16


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Jesus replies (my translation), "Really, well anyone who habitually commits sin is in bondage to sin". --Mark_Eaton

Mark
Let's apply your logic to the well known habit of smoking.

Someone comes up to you, with a cigarette in their mouth, and declares they have kicked the smoking habit.
You ask, "How can you believe such a thing when you are still smoking?" and they say to you, "I use to smoke one pack of cigarettes a day, and now I only smoke 10 cigarettes a day."

Would you agree with him, by reducting the amount of cigarettes he smoked, that he no longer had a habit? Wouldn't you ask him, "If you no longer have a habit, why do you still smoke?"
---David on 2/27/16


David: The commandments Jesus spoke of in John 14:21 can be seen in 1John 3:23, John 3:16 and John 13:34.
They are:
1: Believe on Jesus.
2: Love one another.

What "sin" are you implying that others here are committing?
Or are you trying to preach righteousness by works of the law, mixing it with grace?

Mark Eaton and Samuelbb7.
Can you give BCV telling us what determines "HABITUAL" sin? This needs to be accurately defined or else it's just an ambiguous term (and God is not ambiguous about such an important issue).
Is "Habitual" 7x70 transgressions of the law?
---Haz27 on 2/27/16


Why then did you say the following on 2/22?
---David on 2/25/16

Because, it is the correct reading of John 8:34.

The John 8:31-36 passage is concerned with bondage and freedom, and habitual sin puts us in bondage. Look at addiction for example. Addiction is habitual sin enslaving the person inside the addiction. This is the nature of habitual sin.

John 8:34 is the response of Jesus to the previous statement of the Jews who said, "we have never been in bondage to anyone". Jesus replies (my translation), "Really, well anyone who habitually commits sin is in bondage to sin".

This is another example of the truth of the acronym C.I.E. - Context is Everything.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/26/16


Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
-What? We don't have to be righteous first to receive grace?
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 3:2-3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---micha9344 on 2/26/16


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Christ's version of Grace is taught in ( John 14:21)
---David on 2/25/16

Wow, are you misinformed.

Here is Jesus version of grace.

Let's start with John 3:16, perhaps the greatest single verse. God SO loved humanity, He purposely intended to save us all.

John 1:1-18 telling us that Jesus is and was God, sent by the Father to us, made of flesh, bringing us grace and truth.

Luke 15:11-32 telling of the intention of the Father for our adoption. We see the Father's good pleasure.

John 14:20 telling of our adoption into the Triune God. The Father dwells in Jesus who is in the Father and we are in Jesus. What a miracle!

Why is this so hard for you to see?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/26/16


David, said:
"Calvin, Henry and Spurgeon's teachings were founded on the Gospels of Jesus Christ. If what you say is true, show me the BCV where Jesus taught the Grace of God is unmerited."

David, if you go to John 6:44 Jesus says,
"No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day"

This passage and many more teaches us that only by the grace of God can we be drawn to the Father. Not by anything we do, its (unmerited) Grace. Without Him drawing us, we remain the same, lost. Those that are drawn by the grace of God go to be with the Son, and He raise them on the last day.
Calvin, Spurgeon and all reformers taught the same things.
---Luke on 2/26/16


Now Sir, For the third time please cite a Protestant Source/authority that substantiate your statements:---john9346 on 2/26/16

John
I thought I answered your question. My mistake, let me try again.

The Protestant church teaches, "Gods Grace is unmerited". That very teaching is the source. You can go to any of their websites to confirm this fact.

Now sir, kindly answer the Question I asked you yesterday. You stated Wesley, Calvin, Henry and Spurgeon's teachings were founded on the Gospels of Jesus Christ. If what you say is true, show me the BCV where Jesus taught the Grace of God is unmerited. As the verse I have shown you, shows Jesus taught the Grace of God is in fact....merited!!
---David on 2/26/16


David, John 14:21 is not teaching grace. It teaches the keeping of the law, the commandments. Something you and the SDA's teach, since I believe you are a Jehovah Witness. So you are confused.

One of many passages that teachs the grace of God is John 6:44: " No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws Him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
It teaches that only by the grace of God can we be drawn to God. There is no other way to be with the Father, only by His grace can we be with Him.
---Luke on 2/26/16


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David said, "
John
Really? Here's your opportunity to prove me a liar.

Show me the foundational Protestant "Unmerited Grace teachings", in the Gospels of Jesus Christ."

Sir, with respect to you, when someone ask you a question you answer the question which has been asked, "2 times of you."

Now Sir, For the third time please cite a Protestant Source/authority that substantiate your statements:


Keep in mind, those who seek the truth on this post are watching and honesty is always appreciated.
---john9346 on 2/26/16


John
I guess by now you've discovered Jesus never even mentioned the word Grace in the Gospels, much less, teach the Protestant version.

Though he does teach Grace in the Gospels, the Protestants will not accept or teach Christ's version, because it opposes their version.

Christ's version of Grace is taught in ( John 14:21)
---David on 2/25/16


Mark and David you both correct. A person who is in Christ does not live in habitual sin.

Romans 6 is all about us not living in sin.

Unmerited Grace comes from John 3. It is shown to the thief on the cross and the tax collectors and others all through the Gospels. True the words are not there. But what did the thief do to earn salvation?

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/16


You are taking John 8:34 out of context. The subject of the passage is not sin, but bondage and freedom. Mark Eaton

Mark
Really?
Why then did you say the following on 2/22?
My reading of John 8:34 is this "Whoever habitually commits sin is a slave of sin". Look at the Greek.
---David on 2/25/16


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If you have been set free of sin, and you are not a slave to sin, why do you sin?
---David on 2/23/16

You are taking John 8:34 out of context. The subject of the passage is not sin, but bondage and freedom. Look at the number of times the word free is repeated in such a short passage. We are freed by Jesus, but from what?

You declare that we are freed from sin, but Scripture does not declare this. Romans 6:7 says we have been freed from sin but 1 John 1:8 says if we say we have no sin in us, we lie. Is this a contradiction?

No. We are freed from the bondage and penalty of sin. We are a new creation in Christ, but the old man still exists. Read Romans 7 to see the war between the new and old in us.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/25/16


And Jesus Christ's Gospels were the source of Calvin, Spurgeon, Wesley, and Henry. -john9346 on 2/25/16

John
Really? Here's your opportunity to prove me a liar.

Show me the foundational Protestant "Unmerited Grace teachings", in the Gospels of Jesus Christ.
---David on 2/25/16


David said, "
John
Jesus Christ's Gospels are my source."

And Jesus Christ's Gospels were the source of Calvin, Spurgeon, Wesley, and Henry.

Sir, For the second time please cite a Protestant Source/authority that substantiates your statement:

Sir, Here are your statements:



"Mark Because much of what the Protestant church teaches is against what Christ taught."

"According to many Protestants, you can not lose your adoption,"

"Remember when I said the Protestant faith looks at the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as a license to sin?"
---john9346 on 2/25/16


1 John 1:9,
Most use this verse for believers whove sinned. But, when you really analyze it, this is a salvation verse for the Kingdom Jewish believers to whom John is writing.
Never lose sight of the fact that James and Peter and John are writing to Jews.
This is where we get that this is to the Jew? Gal 2, Paul rehearses what had happened at the Jerusalem counsel of Acts 15. Some may not be aware that the Jerusalem counsel was held several years after Pentecost or after the cross.
The problem that arose was that the Jewish Law-keeping Kingdom believers were still trying to convince Pauls Gentile believers, under his Gospel of Grace, had to practice circumcision and keep the Law and Commandments. (Acts 15:1-5)
---michael_e on 2/24/16


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We came to your conclusion some time ago.
---Trav on 2/23/16


I am not 'concluding' anything. I am quoting God.
---aservant on 2/24/16


. . . do you also believe Christ causes you to have these thoughts of sin?
---David on 2/24/16


The Lord will prove one's heart, to which spirit one submits. Satan tries to influence, seduce us.

2Chr 18:22 . . . the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets . . .

1Tim 4:1 . . . giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,

Rom 6:16 . . . to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are . . . whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts . . .
---aservant on 2/24/16


I couldn't but notice David's Comments on Protestantism,yet, when I asked him to cite "Source/authority.", he has been unable to do so. John

John
Jesus Christ's Gospels are my source.
---David on 2/24/16


Samuel,

Sir, always remember and never forget most people who say they are Calvinists do not have a clue of the meaning.

In addition, 99 percent of people who attack Calvinists have know clue of the doctrine or what the followers affirm...

I couldn't but notice David's Comments on Protestantism,yet, when I asked him to cite "Source/authority.", he has been unable to do so.

Samuel, if you want to understand Calvinist a good recommended book, "The Potter's Freedom." by Dr. James White.

Also, "The Cause of God and Truth." by John Gill
---john9346 on 2/24/16


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Now that we are in Christ, it is not I that lives but Christ lives in me.
---Luke on 2/23/16


Luke
Christ said in (Mark 7:21), "For from within, out of the hearts of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornication's, murders...ect".

Since you now believe it's Christ who lives in you, do you also believe Christ causes you to have these thoughts of sin?
---David on 2/24/16


- 2 -
Ellen White is rejected by God as a teacher of men, but touted by men in this blog. In doing so, are these men serving the interests of God?

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13...
---aservant on 2/21/16

We came to your conclusion some time ago. Men under the authority of women cannot be men. They certainly have no authority. To be listed effeminates.
1Co_6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
---Trav on 2/23/16


Samuel, Paul never once stated he could be lost. He never preached that message. What you are claiming is that once Jesus died for us who believe, paying with His blood for our sins, a person can go back to been lost. I guess maybe he could come to Christ again, and again be lost. As many times as the person wants.
That is not the message. Once we become sons of God by God's will, we will never have to stand before the Great White Throne of Judgment. All believers go to the Judgment Seat of Christ, where the wrongs they did as sons will be burned, and they will be rewarded for the good they did. Get it right. You do not even know where you will stand. But you have to believe, otherwise you are at the Great white Throne of Judgment.
---Luke on 2/23/16


David, you say:
"If you have been set free of sin, and you are not a slave to sin, why do you sin?"

The reason people still sin is because of our fallen nature that we were born in. But sin is no longer our habit. When we were slaves of sin, we did not have Christ in our lives. Now that we are in Christ, it is not I that lives but Christ lives in me. And all good things we do as Christians come from above. What you fight for is the law. And so you try to find any excuse to take the Christian out of grace and put him back under the law, because you are under the law. You just don't understand what it is to be under grace.
---Luke on 2/23/16


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What a wonderful thing it would be to hear all the publicans of the world cry out God be merciful to me a sinner! This would be a welcomed harvest prepared for the message of reconciliation.
But, there is no more pitiful tradition than when a saint of God who truly understands the message of the cross asks God for forgiveness.
Absolutely a saved man should have an awareness of sin. It is tragic saints forget that Christ died once for sins and they were crucified with him.
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
---michael_e on 2/23/16


My reading of John 8:34 is this "Whoever habitually commits sin is a slave of sin". Look at the Greek.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/22/16

Mark
I take your answer to be no, you do not believe everyone who sins is a slave of sin.

If you have been set free of sin, and you are not a slave to sin, why do you sin?
---David on 2/23/16


Mat 6:14-15:
if ye forgive...your heavenly Father will also forgive...if ye forgive not...neither will your Father forgive...
I believe the believer will and does forgive if he/she has not done so already, a result of belief/faith, a given...God is effective in all He does, the work He does within the believer ensures forgiveness, by the believer, by Him.
It is already done and indicative of what one believes, receives.

As for the original question...simply put, forgiveness happened, but in present and future may be realized, received.forgiveness happened when Jesus died, the perfect, sacrificial Lamb...also "foreknown before the foundation of the world" indicates forgiveness was in the mind of the Father long before.
---Chria9396 on 2/23/16


The Problem Michaele is that the Gospels were written for the church. They were written after the New Covenant was established. So while we need to recognize their original audience he is still speaking to us.
Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This is truth for us.

I don't see in ICorithians 15 that sins are forgiven in advance. I do read in.

ICorithians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

That Paul stated he could be lost.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/23/16


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The fact that our sins under grace have been forgiven stands in contrast with those who were under the Law of Moses:
At the time that the temple was built, God told Israel in 2 Chron 7:14, "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." So we see that their sins had not yet been forgiven.
In Christ's earthly ministry (still under the Mosaic Law), He told the disciples (ref Matth 6:14-15)
When we realize we are under grace, not law, as Paul wrote in Rom 6:14, If we believe Paul's gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4), then all our sins have been forgiven.
---michael_e on 2/23/16


. . . You can buy flood insurance . . . You have to wait for the flood to ask the insurance company to pay the repairs.
---Monk_Brendan on 2/22/16


Exactly! The solution exists BEFORE it is needed.

Insurance = PAID before it is broken. Jesus' Blood = PAID before one sins.

The insurance activator = filing a claim. The forgiveness activator = confession, requesting forgiveness. But the solution is already in place BEFORE you cause the problem.

See Jer 1:5 and Mat 1:21. It is important to point out for the anti-predestination folks, the work of both were determined BEFORE they were born. Both Jeremiah and Jesus (the WORD) existed BEFORE they were formed in the womb.
---aservant on 2/22/16


Aservant, How can you repair a vase before it is broken? You can buy flood insurance, but it won't protect you from a flood. You have to wait for the flood to ask the insurance company to pay the repairs.

Just so, even though God knows all, He will not forgive sin before it has been committed.

If you were so angry you were homicidal, and you asked God to forgive the murder before it happened, He would not do it. His counsel would be to calm down, take a deep breath, and try to work out a solution with words instead of bullets.

Repentance is what is needed, not asking God's forgiveness beforehand.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/22/16


Do you believe "Everyone who sins is a slave to sin", as Christ taught in (John 8:34)?
---David on 2/20/16

You are judging Christ's servants. You, who cannot read another persons heart, are condemning them for what you "think" they believe.

My reading of John 8:34 is this "Whoever habitually commits sin is a slave of sin". Look at the Greek.

The verse condemns no man. The verse and its context, explain the role of sin in our lives. Sin (the disease not the acts) has us in bondage and God has made us free thru Jesus (Col. 1:13).
---Mark_Eaton on 2/22/16


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- 2 -
Ellen White is rejected by God as a teacher of men, but touted by men in this blog. In doing so, are these men serving the interests of God?

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
---aservant on 2/21/16


- 1 -
Do not be deceived, Satan in this blog puts focus on the terms "Pentecost", "Protestant", "Calvin", "Spurgeon", "Wesley", or "Henry" intending to deflect attention away from Scripture written by God - 2 Tim 3:16. Scripture is where God wants our focus. Scripture is profitable, not discussions of men and organizations.

Satan's aim when men and women here are speaking of fallible men and fallible organizations of men, is to erode faith in God via imperfect men and imperfect organizations. Suggest you lead these people back to Scripture. Lead them to discussions of Scripture, not discussions of men and women.
---aservant on 2/20/16


Why do you feel the need to wake anybody up? --Mark_Eaton on 2/19/16

Mark
Because much of what the Protestant church teaches is against what Christ taught. And when Christ comes, you will be left behind. Your Salvation teachings do not come from the Gospels of Christ.

Proof?
Do you believe "Everyone who sins is a slave to sin", as Christ taught in (John 8:34)?

Samuel
FYI, I don't look at the SDA as a member of the Protestant church. Protestant teachings are based on the Letters of Paul, as interpreted by men like Calvin, Spurgeon, Wesley and Henry.

The SDA's are based more on the Gospel of Christ according to Ellen White, which are a bit closer to the Truth.
---David on 2/20/16


john9346 you are correct on the hyper nonhyper. But a few years ago Church Swindoll came out with the Lordship salvation teaching. Which is really a rehash of older Calvinism. That those who are saved will live for Jesus. There was and still is a huge amount of controversy.

I cannot present it here. But it was from a newer form of Calvinism. In one discussion a young man stated even if I murder hundreds of people I cannot be lost. The older ones believed that Christians were to hate sin.

The newer was more it does not matter. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/19/16


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I am only trying to wake you up.
---David on 2/19/16


1Jn 2:27 . . . the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie . . .

The Lord has provided His people an anointing so they will not be misled.
---aservant on 2/20/16


As far as being critical, if you had any idea how much I love you, you would understand I am only trying to wake you up.
---David on 2/19/16

I doubt this statement.

Why do you feel the need to wake anybody up? Is not Jesus the head of the church? Did you receive a "mandate" from Jesus to wake up the BOC?

We as the BOC, have been given the task of making disciples (Matt 28:19). To make disciples, you have to come along side the person, work with them, teach them, demonstrate to them, live with and love them. Not simply shout at them from afar and try to wake them up.

For making disciples, see 2 Tim 2:2. For dealing with people, read and study Proverbs.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/19/16


Tit 2:14 ...and purify unto himself a peculiar people,...
---Josef on 2/15/16

Peculiar/special people, scriptural witnesses.
Exo_19:5 ...keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Deu_14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Deu_26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people,...
Psa_135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people,...
---Trav on 2/19/16


David,

Actually, those who are save can and never will lose their salvation not adoption.
---john9346 on 2/19/16


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Do you lose your adoption?---Mark_Eaton on 2/18/16

Mark
It depends on if we follow one of mans doctrines, or the actual teaching of Jesus Christ on this matter. According to many Protestants, you can not lose your adoption, but according to Christ, those in sin, have never been adopted.

Now I don't expect you to take my word for this, but if you read what Jesus said in (John 8:34-35), you will see what I say is true. As far as being critical, if you had any idea how much I love you, you would understand I am only trying to wake you up.

34 "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever".
---David on 2/19/16


Samuel, there are 2 types of Calvinists Hyper and Non-hyper. Both believe that all sins are forgiven and our salvations can and will never be loss (P in the TULIP)

David states, "Remember when I said the Protestant faith looks at the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as a license to sin?"

Tell me, what protestant Sources/authorities that you believe teach this?
---john9346 on 2/18/16


Remember when I said the Protestant faith looks at the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as a license to sin?
---David on 2/18/16

Brother, what you say is very critical of a lot of people.

First, I am one of these people you are talking about. How do you know what I believe, can you read my mind?

Second, grace can appear as a license to sin. Paul knew this and included the famous line "should we continue in sin that grace may abound"?

Third, you seem to have a legalistic approach to faith. You believe you are only forgiven if you "confess and ask God". But what happens to God's love for you while you are in sin? Do you lose your adoption?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/18/16


Strongaxe
. . . a license to sin?

Aservant . . . using the sacrifice of Christ as a "credit card" for sin.
---David on 2/18/16


License to sin is the WRONG persective. The CCard analogy was to illustrate an ERASER of sin.

The spilled, cursed Blood of Jesus was legislated as the cleaner of sin before creation, and is analogous to a CCard backed by unlimited funds before any purchase is made. Jesus' earmarked Blood erases sin before it occurs. Unlimited earmarked funds erases debt before it occurs.

Sin once you've broken ALL the Law - Jas 2:10. One sin or 10,001 sins = same weight to God = ALL sin ERASED by Jesus' Blood.
---aservant on 2/18/16


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It depend on the Protestant.

Calvinist agree with the all sins forgiven. But even they are two groups. One is what has been labeled today as Lordship salvation. Believes that if you live in sin. You are lying to yourself that you are saved.

The other group is like StrongAx credit card analogy.

But those who are not Calvinist like Methodist and Seventh day Adventist believe that when we are saved we become a new person who lives for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That are love for GOD and others leads us to obey GOD. That if we turn from following GOD. We would be lost.

I hope this helps. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/18/16


God gives you unlimited use of His credit card with ONE condition, afterward you tell Him what you bought and thank Him for buying it. You can buy what you want, when you want, wherever you want, as often as you want until your life ends. He established this for you before you were conceived.

In reality, since God's card already has unlimited, earmarked funds, aren't all your charges paid before you ever use the card, paid before you are born?---aservant on 2/15/16


Strongaxe
Remember when I said the Protestant faith looks at the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as a license to sin?

Aservant, explains their beliefs much better in his analogy, using the sacrifice of Christ as a "credit card" for sin.
---David on 2/18/16


1 John 2:2 "And He Himself is the propitiation . . . for the whole world."

. . . Jesus made appeasement for the sins of the entire world.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/17/16


Yes, you do understand. The Blood of Jesus prepares every human for being saved.

Sinners must fulfill other steps, yet the final, ultimate step is God's. See Mt 7:21-23.

God has the final say, like a Husband has the final decision on the woman He marries.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 . . . Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
---aservant on 2/17/16


Perhaps the wise people in this blog can help understand what this verse means:

1 John 2:2 "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

If I understand this verse correctly, John is saying that Jesus made appeasement for the sins of the entire world.

But this verse is not an island. It must be used in its context, which is:

1 John 1:6-7 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/17/16


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God points you made Josef. Once for all time.
---Luke on 2/16/16


:"Are sins forgiven BEFORE they are committed? Please try to answer this question." Aservant heres my direct answer to your question. In Jesus "we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace." Eph 1:7>Col 1:14

P.S. The believer is liberated from sin by His payment, now and forever. For He "gave himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works," and love for our fellow man. Tit 2:14 The believer is free not to sin, because he is no longer a slave to sin, but rather to righteousness, in Him, where no sin can be found.
---Josef on 2/15/16


God gives you unlimited use of His credit card with ONE condition, afterward you tell Him what you bought and thank Him for buying it. You can buy what you want, when you want, wherever you want, as often as you want until your life ends. He established this for you before you were conceived.

In reality, since God's card already has unlimited, earmarked funds, aren't all your charges paid before you ever use the card, paid before you are born?

The cleansing Blood of Jesus was earmarked - Rev 13:8, available and set aside for the chosen - Eph 1:4, BEFORE they were born, BEFORE they sinned.
---aservant on 2/15/16


NO!






---jerry6593 on 2/15/16


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The blood of Christ once appropriated by faith forgives all your sin, imputes to you Gods righteousness, and places you into the boC.
You are forgiven now and forever. God saw your sin on the cross and the riches of his grace was sufficient to redeem you from your debt.
The proper attitude towards your sin is to stop doing it by reckoning yourself to be dead (Romans 6:7,11).
For the saved man to pray for forgiveness as the publican is to ignore Christs blood on the cross. Paul writes that we have already been forgiven! (Eph 4:32, Col 2:13)
Your prayers have been answered. And that for two thousand years. Take it, believe it, and thank God for the forgiveness you have in Christ!
---michael_e on 2/14/16


"There is much resistance to aspects of how and when God grants forgiveness to those whom He saves." Aservant the how was through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. The when, was the moment that sacrifice was made. Once the believer acknowledges the fact that they have sinned, they receive that forgiveness, and are purified, based on His sacrifice. "By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". For by one offering He has perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Heb 10:10,14.
---josef on 2/14/16


Aservant
First let's look at the promise of God, concerning the confession of sin in
(1 John 1:9). "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Confess your sins before God, and see if you experience the cleansing God promises in the verse.

If you experience this cleansing, this should be an obvious sign, your sins were not forgiven before the confession, since the cleansing is promised after Gods forgiveness.

If our words are of no value in helping one discover the Truth, put Gods word into practice, and then you will know the Truth.
---David on 2/14/16


''I do not believe that sins are forgiven before they are committed although I do believe that God knows that we WILL commit those sins. He waits for us to confess and repent before He forgives.''

Rita, God knows all things. The word "Omniscience" mean "to have all (Omni) knowledge (science) and to comprehend all things. He never learns anything or acquires new knowledge. The future as well as the past and present are completely known to Him, He is surprise by nothing.
The moment we are saved, all our sins are forgiven. We confess when we sin because we know inside ourselves we did wrong and so we go to God. It is not so that we can get God to forgive our sins again, Jesus took care of our sins once for all time.
---Luke on 2/14/16


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"When sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices." Heb 10:18 NLT Jesus took away sin with His sacrifice. Jhn 1:29 Once sin is confessed, forgiven, and purged, they are no longer remembered. Jer 31:34>Psa 103:12 And "the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins." Heb 10:2 For those who understand forgiveness of sin recognizes that having been born of God they cannot sin, 1Jo 3:9, for the only sin that remains for man is missing the mark of the high calling of God in Christ, and the believing worshipper who has received the Savior sacrifice and forgiveness has hit that mark, and embraces His guidance.
---Josef on 2/13/16


I do not believe that sins are forgiven before they are committed although I do believe that God knows that we WILL commit those sins. He waits for us to confess and repent before He forgives. It has always been my understanding that, as soon as we realise/know that what we did was against God, we must get right with God by taking the initiate and ASKING for forgiveness and the strength to cease sinning.
---Rita_H on 2/14/16


Thanks for the responses.

However, my question was not addressed. There is much resistance to aspects of how and when God grants forgiveness to those whom He saves. Please try to answer this question, with refs if you can. But the refs are optional. Thanks.
---aservant on 2/13/16


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