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Sabbath Kept Holy

How was the Sabbath "kept holy" if there were twice daily services in the Tabernacle, Temple, and Synagogues?

Traditional Jews still do so.

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 ---Cluny on 2/14/16
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John was does fulfill mean to you. Some take it to mean done away with. But that would make Jesus contradict himself.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For if fulfill means the same as destroy or get rid of. Then Jesus was wrong.

Also it makes Paul a liar.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

John when you set a thermostat and let it run that is not kindling a fire. Even the most Talmud observing Jew recognizes that.

So how does the cold keep you from spending a day apart with Christ?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/16


Micha,

1. The Sabbath was kept and celebrated long before and even after Exo 35:3.

2. Jesus fulfilled Exo 35:3.

"I feel sorry for the polar dwellers, who don't even see a sunrise or sunset at times and find it very hard not to have a fire in their homes."

I feel sorry for anyone who will not light a fire to eat or keep warm out of ignorance (Obedience is better than sacrifice." 1 Sam 15:22.
---john9346 on 3/3/16


Brendan said, "Christians are not under the Law, but under Grace"

Sir, might I remind you the Sabbath existed before there was sin, before the "Curse.", before the Jews/Israel, and before the Mosaic Law.

See, Gen 2:1-3.

The 2 Perfect Institutions before, "The Fall." were marriage/family and the Sabbath.


Also, the bible does not state the day when Jesus resurrected.
---john on 3/3/16


The Ten Commandments were not fulfilled the whole body of law was fulfilled. But that does not mean done away with.

Mat 5:18,19
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So those who teach to break the Commandments are the least.
Romans 3:31 The law is established.


Was David saved by the law or grace?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/16


Monk, you are right, Jesus fulfilled the Law ( Matt 5:17-20.) Christians are not under the Law, but under Grace "For the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)" so you are so right. I believe Jerry says what he does because he is under the written Law. He and Samuel are under the Law the reason they bring out the Sabbath all the time as if keeping the Sabbath erases all their other sins. If they break one they are guilty of breaking all the laws even the Sabbath. All means all. They say Saturday, as if that is the only day we worship the Lord. They don't understand that under grace we worship the Lord every second of our lives. He lives within us.
---Luke on 3/3/16




Jerry said, "Sorry, but I think you've got it backwards. Where is the logic in calling Sunday the Lord's Day when that is never even hinted at in Scripture?"

The Resurrection of Jesus was a paradigm shift. The whole focus of true worship of God changed. Believers were no longer under Mosaic Law but under Grace.

When Jesus died on the Cross all of the old Law--including the Ten written by God Himself on the Tablets of Stone were fulfilled. (Read Matt 5:17-20.) I did not say done away with or made void, but fulfilled. Christians are not under the Law, but under Grace "For the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/3/16


Samuel: It is evident that some of these people are searching for the most ridiculous excuses for not obeying God's clear Commandment. Like the Pharisees of old, they construct man-made paradigms by which they think they can sufficiently confuse the issue that they need not obey. They consider themselves Christians, and yet they don't follow Christ in keeping the Sabbath holy, but, like the Pharisees, condemn those who obey God rather than men.


---jerry6593 on 3/3/16


Jews in the far south have machines do it for them. Stove can be bought with a Sabbath setting so it happens automatically.

Also to kindle a fire requires a lot of work. In the past the Jews just banked their fires so they could be continually burning and not have to be started.

Also remember that in the Bronze age to kindle a fire took a lot of time and effort. Since matches hadn't been invented yet. So by banking their fires they could be ready to start with very little effort and time.

So how does this statement show you are not to spend time with GOD on the day he designated? How does this excuse you from keeping the Fourth of third commandment?

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/16


/Based on your statement, allow the bible to instruct regarding Sabbath not the Jewish Talmud...\-john9346 on 3/2/16
Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day. KJV
Exo 35:3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day. NIV
-So much for Talmud.
-I feel sorry for the polar dwellers, who don't even see a sunrise or sunset at times and find it very hard not to have a fire in their homes.
---micha9344 on 3/2/16


strongaxe said, "By what legal theory do you think it's lawful, under Mosaic law, to drive on the Sabbath? It is forbidden to light a fire, and cars have spark plugs that cause sparks that cause gasoline to explode hundreds of times per second. You couldn't even count how many times you violate the sabbath just by turning the ignition switch. (Also, any electrical switch anywhere, since switches create sparks, which is technically lighting a fire). And don't even think of cooking on the Sabbath (or even opening the fridge, unless you've unscrewed the light bulb inside first)."

Sir, Jesus fulfilled these requirements

Based on your statement, allow the bible to instruct regarding Sabbath not the Jewish Talmud...
---john9346 on 3/2/16




Samuel, excuses? You should read my post on this blog before making that type of accusation concerning me. The law is the law, context does not define or alter it. The letter of the law concerning the sabbath is to rest, and do no work, period. If you and Jerry see yourselves as ones under the letter of the law, Ok. For "we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law." Although I am not one to concern myself with the letter of the law, I willingly yield myself to the spirit of the law as Father has given me to understand it, and that understanding is what I have shared on this blog concerning the sabbath. If you believe the sabbath can only be honored on Saturday, I'm Ok with that, please do so:0)
---joseph on 3/2/16


Joseph you should look at the context before quoting a verse. The passage was talking about a man who went out to gather manna when they were not supposed to because GOD said.

The pharisees were using their traditions. They were trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Jesus rebuked them for not understanding scripture. They latter went on to plot to murder Jesus on Sabbath.

The Gospels were written to the church after the Crucifixion. So why did the writers show what Jesus taught about how to keep Sabbath?

Doing services or Holy Work does not break the Sabbath. Also as Jesus pointed out helping others and working to save others is Holy work.

Why all the excuses not to spend time with our Savior?
---Samuelbb7 on 3/2/16


monk: "Jerry, this is a non sequitur. Try again, without the disconnect of logic."

Sorry, but I think you've got it backwards. Where is the logic in calling Sunday the Lord's Day when that is never even hinted at in Scripture?



Rob: "Jerry, are there any people who aren't required to keep Saturday as the Sabbath?"

Are there any who aren't required to refrain from murder, theft, lying, etc.?



joseph: Jesus was a Jew. Deal with it. He kept the Sabbath perfectly according to the Commandment. He did not keep the man-made regulations of the Pharisees. Do you keep a man-made sabbath?



---jerry6593 on 3/2/16


Jerry wrote,"Besides, Jesus was a Sabbath keeper. Keep studying." Jesus practiced the religion of Judaism during His sojourn on earth. So of course "Jesus customarily kept the Sabbath" Yet, not even Jesus kept the sabbath in the strictest sense of the law. For "as His custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read." Luke 4:16 The law of the sabbath day commands "abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." Exo 16:29 Nor did His disciples, for they worked gathering corn to eat, when the law forbids doing any work. Deuteronomy 5:14 The pharisees charged them, and Jesus answered,..Mat 12:2-8 and asked..Mat 12:11,12
---joseph on 3/1/16


Micha,

The Sabbath was established long before Sinai (the Ten Commandments)

Replacement Theology was actually taught long before the SDA was created.

Remember Justin's Dialog with Trypho.

Martin Luther the Protestant Reformer also presented a Disdain Attitude for Jews.
---john9346 on 3/1/16


Brendan asks, "
But if he drives to church, or even walks, he is breaking the Sabbath, is he not?"

No sir,

"And if you begin preparing yourself before Friday NIGHT, you are robbing God or your employer, is this not also making void the Sabbath?"

No sir.
---john on 3/1/16


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Jerry, you forgot to read what seed Paul was talking about concerning Galatians, Paul wrote:
" Now to Abraham and his Seed, were the promises made,"
He does not say: "And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed, who is Christ" Gala. 3:16.
The Israel talked about is the Israel of God, the Messiah Jesus Christ.
In the New Testament, the name Israel not only applies to one Victorious Man, the true Seed, Jesus Christ, but also to those who belong to Christ. Believers in Jesus are infused into the Seed. In other words, true Christians are part of God's Spiritual Israel.
---Luke on 3/1/16


Jerry, are there any people who aren't required to keep Saturday as the Sabbath?
---Rob on 3/1/16


Jerry asked, "Since John does not specify which day of the week is the Lord's Day in Revelation, it is not logical to assume that he meant Sunday, but rather that he was referring to the Sabbath Day since Jesus declares that He is Lord of the Sabbath."

Jerry, this is a non sequitur. Try again, without the disconnect of logic.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 3/1/16


Michael: "We are not "grafted into" Israel."

Too bad!

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



---jerry6593 on 3/1/16


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But Micha9344 the Church replacing Israel is a very old doctrine in Christian history. It was taught and followed for hundreds of years before the SDA church existed.

Until the Dispensationalist theory came about under Darby it was the common understanding of Christians.

Read Ephesians 2,3 it should help you see that we are grafted into Israel. Also read Romans 11. Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/1/16


/Note that the Sabbath was made for ALL MANKIND - not for the Jews only.\
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
/Further, the Sabbath Commandment itself includes non-Jews within it as "the stranger that is within thy gates".\
-Interesting that the "stranger within thy gates" is mixed in with the cattle and servants, yet the Sabbath was made for man.
/Besides, Jesus was a Sabbath keeper.\-jerry6593 on 2/29/16
-He was of Judah Ben Israel.
This gets into the SDA replacement theology which has no basis in scripture.
We have not replaced Israel.
We are not "grafted into" Israel.
---micha9344 on 2/29/16


joseph: "My position is one of a believer, who recognizes that law, as commanded of the nation of Israel, can not practically be honored by the church"

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for MAN, and not man for the Sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Note that the Sabbath was made for ALL MANKIND - not for the Jews only. This is also apparent from the mixed multitude (non-Jews) being present at the lesson of the manna and at the Commandments of Mt. Sinai. Further, the Sabbath Commandment itself includes non-Jews within it as "the stranger that is within thy gates".

Besides, Jesus was a Sabbath keeper.

Keep studying.

---jerry6593 on 2/29/16


Jerry, after considering your position concerning the sabbath day Father set apart for the children of Jacob, later called Israel, and his descendants who formed the nation of Israel, you are absolutely correct. The day had to be specific, in order for the the entire nation to observed and adhere to it collectively, and that day was the 7th day of their calender week, which I understand to be Saturday. With the understanding that Saturday starts, for them, at dust on the day that the majority of mankind calls Friday. My position is one of a believer, who recognizes that law, as commanded of the nation of Israel, can not practically be honored by the church, as a whole, yet I believe should be honored as individually relative, in His honor.
---joseph on 2/28/16


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Jerry you believe the Father set apart a certain day of the calender week for rest. Ok. I believe the command is for man to set apart the seventh day of his individual work week for rest, that the day of that rest is man's choice. With the only requirement being one in seven, for his own benefit, and to insure that man takes at least one in seven, for spiritual reflection without the distractions of his secular life. As concerning worship, I believe Father intended that to be continuous, in the sense of reverence shown Him as Creator, LORD, and Savior. I do recognize and respect your view as the traditional view, and I am not saying that view is incorrect, I am simply sharing my personal view. I also believe the day of assembly is mans choice.
---joseph on 2/28/16


joseph: "Jerry the conclusion that I have come to is that "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."

Then you and I agree. The decision as to which day of the week is holy was MADE FOR US, so the decision is NOT OURS TO MAKE. There is also the little problem for you that there is a commandment to observe the Sabbath day. Unless you consider Paul (whose manner was to observe Sabbath) as of more authority than God.


---jerry6593 on 2/27/16


Michael: "The Lord's day had been established since the first century, John writing about it in Revelation."

Since John does not specify which day of the week is the Lord's Day in Revelation, it is not logical to assume that he meant Sunday, but rather that he was referring to the Sabbath Day since Jesus declares that He is Lord of the Sabbath.



---jerry6593 on 2/27/16


Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my Torah in their minds, and write it on their hearts,...

And Torah means teaching or understanding.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/26/16

Good Stuff Mark.

This "mark" is what brought Christianity forward unto this moment so far.
This people with this mark of the heart and mind, who don't even recognize their own mark/s. If one believes scripture, upon scripture of course.
Which is a mark of its own.
Ummmm, the irony of the only GOD.
Another mark for today:
Joh_5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
---Trav on 2/26/16


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Or havent you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? (Matthew 12:5)
---mike on 2/26/16


A frightful place for SDA to tread.
---micha9344 on 2/26/16

Another frightful place:

Heb. 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people"

But the original verse in Jer. 31 say this:

Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my Torah in their minds, and write it on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people"

And Torah means teaching or understanding.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/26/16


/In Spanish Saturday comes from the word Sabbath.\-Samuelbb7 on 2/26/16
A frightful place for SDA to tread.
In Spanish Sunday comes from the Latin word for Lord, as in Lord's day.
The Lord's day had been established since the first century, John writing about it in Revelation.
---micha9344 on 2/26/16


"Also you did not comment on the fact that GOD by the miracles of manna showed the Seventh day to the Jewish people." Samuel I agree that the seventh day is the sabbath day. What I question is the father declaring to anyone, that the day called saturday, is the seventh day that He was referring to, where is that written? If He did not directly declare it, then saturday is the sabbath only by Jewish tradition. The problem I have with saturday being the sabbath for all believers, is the fact that not all believer are able honor that particular day as their day of rest. And to imply failure to do so somehow dishonors the Father is pretentious. For the true rest we enter into is Jesus, our sabbath, and He's lord of the sabbath day.
---joseph on 2/26/16


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Joseph for the Jewish people it was GOD.

The current days of the week were named after different gods in English. The Romans gave and Saxons gave them current name.

In Spanish Saturday comes from the word Sabbath. The Roman Catholic and Orthodox recognize that Sunday is the first day of the week. Just like most calendars show. There has been a move in some places to make Monday the first day of the week.

Also you did not comment on the fact that GOD by the miracles of manna showed the Seventh day to the Jewish people.

They ended up influencing the entire world.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/16


"joseph: I of course do not concur with your assertion that any day may be the Sabbath. Yes Jerry, I know.
"If you study out the subject in the Bible, you'll come to a different conclusion." This statement presumes that I have not studied the subject.
Jerry the conclusion that I have come to is that "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." Therefore, six out of seven days I may work, but the seventh is set apart as the sabbath of rest.
Samuel, "very specific?" That would depend upon whether you are referring to the seventh day of a work week, or Saturday specifically. Who named the days of the week and determined Sunday to be the first and Saturday the seventh?
---joseph on 2/26/16


Joseph if you read the Commandment it refers to the days of creation. Also by Three miracles a week GOD pointed out which day was the Sabbath. Read Exodus 16.

Six days a week the manna feel. But not the Sabbath. Five days a week if you kept the manna over it spoiled. But on the preparation day you could keep it over to eat on Sabbath.

To me that is very specific. Also Jesus went to church on the same Sabbath Jews do today.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/16


joseph: I of course do not concur with your assertion that any day may be the Sabbath. If you study out the subject in the Bible, you'll come to a different conclusion.

1) God only made the Sabbath holy - not any other day of the week.

2) The Sabbath was set apart as a memorial of the one true Creator God. Any other day exalts a false god.

3) God said Remember THE Sabbath day (not A Sabbath day) to KEEP it holy.

4) God taught only one day as holy in the lesson of the manna BEFORE Mt. Sinai - the Sabbath.

5) Jesus customarily kept the Sabbath. If you insist on picking your own day, why not pick the one He kept?



---jerry6593 on 2/25/16


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"How is it possible to "keep something holy" without worship being involved?" Jerry The way I understand the sabbath law, after working, and handling ones business over a six day period, the seventh day of that period is made holy or declared sacred when it is set apart, as commanded of the Father, for the specific purpose of rest. Also by my understanding, the day that work week starts and ends is irrelevant, even according to the law itself. Which simply specifies that "six days may work be done, but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD:" No mention is made of that work starting on sunday, as the first day of the week, or ending on Friday, as the sixth.
---joseph on 2/24/16


How is it possible to "keep something holy" without worship being involved?



---jerry6593 on 2/23/16


I like it when we can agree. Jerry and Monk Brendan.

I am glad Scott that you recognize that it can be. It is our understanding that the latter passages such and the fourth commandment Protestant third in RCC points to worship. That is why Jesus went to the Synagogue on the Sabbath.

So you are correct we must depend on all scripture on the Sabbath to get our understanding.

Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/23/16


Jerry said, "At least the monk has a sense of humor."

Thank you, Jerry.

You see, I don't disagree with everything you say. When you're right, you are right. LOL

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/22/16


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//Sabbath at creation was set apart for rest and worship.// Samuel

I do not see worship in verse 8. I see holy but holiness is not organized worship. It can be but does not mean it has to be.
---Scott1 on 2/22/16


cluny: "Notice that jerry did not actually answer my question."

Sorry, but I thought I had answered it. Perhaps you could state explicitly what part you don't understand.

At least the monk has a sense of humor.



---jerry6593 on 2/22/16


\\The lubricious (Nice word! Did you have to pay rent to use it?) acts to which you refer bore no portent of the Cross.\\

Notice that jerry did not actually answer my question.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/20/16


Jerry said, "The lubricious (Nice word! Did you have to pay rent to use it?)"

No, I sold him the rights to the word. Next year (if we can find the backers), it will be coming out on Broadway as Lubricious, The Musical! starring Faye Wray, Martha Ray, Daniel Day Louis, and Barf, the wonder dog who barks with a lisp!

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/20/16


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cluny: "Did these likewise pass away with the Crucifixion and Resurrection?"

You apparently missed the point. Only those which were prophecies of the Crucifixion (such as the evening and morning sacrifices) were fulfilled at the cross. The lubricious (Nice word! Did you have to pay rent to use it?) acts to which you refer bore no portent of the Cross.


---jerry6593 on 2/20/16


monk: "that threw out the days of the week. So you really don't know which day is the Sabbath, do you?"

You really don't understand history, do you. Maybe you should consult your genius friend, cluny.

The facts are that although most European countries lost 10 days as a result of Gregory's October 4, 1582 papal bull, Thursday, October 4, 1582, was followed by Friday, October 15, 1582 not October 5. Thus, the Sunday through Saturday weekly cycle was not interrupted by the 10-day change. The US Naval Observatory has confirmed this.

So you really don't know what you're talking about, do you?



---jerry6593 on 2/20/16


Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable, and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD, and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.



---jerry6593 on 2/20/16


/That the Seventh-day Sabbath Commandment is permanent in nature (as well as being set aside for WORSHIP in the future) is made clear in Isa 66:23.\-jerry6593 on 2/19/16
SDA is pulling out Isa 66:23 again.
Many of you should read Isa 66 in context and see if our friend Jerry's statement actually shows true.
For starters, here is the verse referenced:
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
-This is continual worship (from - to)
daily-weekly-monthly, etc.
---micha9344 on 2/19/16


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Scott Where does the Bible say that? The Jews who worship on Sabbath disagree with your understanding. So did Jesus since he worshiped in the synagogue on Sabbath.

In one sense true all days are holy. But Sabbath at creation was set apart for rest and worship. As pointed out in the Commandment. Exodus 20.

True the New Covenant replaces the Old or as many call the Mosaic covenant. But it says GOD's laws will be written in our heart. Which is statement from the Old Testament. The old was on sacrifices of animals and human high priests. The New we have only one High Priest Jesus. Only one Sacrifice his on the cross.

But the Moral laws especially the Ten Commandments are established in the New. Romans 3:31.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/19/16


Just as a comment, Jerry, did you know that Pope Gregory XIII changed the calendar from the Julian--invented by the pagan Julius Caesar, in 42 B.C.

He did this so that Pascha--Easter would line up with March 21, which is when it is supposed to be. When Gregory eliminated the Julian Calendar, 10 days were snipped out, and July the 2 became July 12th.

Taking the most accurate calendar Bp. Ussher used, when the 10 days were snipped out, that threw out the days of the week. So you really don't know which day is the Sabbath, do you?

Several people and many countries have started the calendar on different dates, calling the first day of that month New Year, and started with Sunday.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/19/16


That the Seventh-day Sabbath Commandment is permanent in nature..
---jerry6593 on 2/19/16

So then, which covenant is the writer of Hebrews referring to when it says:

Heb. 8:13 "In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away"

Is the obsolete covenant:

1. Noahic
2. Abrahamic
3. Mosaic
4. Priestly
5. Davidic

In my theology, the answer is #3.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/19/16


Thank you for clarifying, jerry.

Now are the more lubricious passages in Leviticus about more overripe forms of intimate behavior between consenting adults also only of a temporary nature, too?

Did these likewise pass away with the Crucifixion and Resurrection?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/19/16


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cluny: "I would like him to clarify what he's saying."

There are 10 Commandments written by God Himself which are foundational and permanent. The sacrificial system, written by Moses (under the inspiration of God), including the evening and morning sanctuary services, were temporary in nature, being prophecies of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Christ FULFILLED these prophecies on the cross.

That the Seventh-day Sabbath Commandment is permanent in nature (as well as being set aside for WORSHIP in the future) is made clear in Isa 66:23.



---jerry6593 on 2/19/16


Those in Christ have already entered into that rest God spoke of at Mt. Sinai. Hebrews 4.

Those that pitch the Mosaic law, i.e. adherence to the 10 commandments are the children of Hagar, and outside God's grace. Adventists need to read Galatians under the guidance of God's Spirit.
---RioLion on 2/18/16


Jerry said, "NO ONE made Sunday holy, and it never will be. It is a counterfeit Sabbath."

Forgive me, Jerry, but God made Sunday, just as He made the other six days of the week. And if God has made something, how can it NOT be holy?

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/18/16


Sabbath has no connection to worship in the since of activity.
Sabbath was for rest.
Rest takes faith because for true Sabbath we need to stop worrying about things we need to do and rely on God. This gives us the freedom to choose any day as Sabbath.
---Scott1 on 2/18/16


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The Sabbath day was set aside as Holy in Creation and again to the Jews to remind then after their long captivity in the Ten Commandments.

GOD is in every day and every place. So we are to live Holy every day.

But the Sabbath was a set aside time to spend with GOD and so let the poor rest. We need rest and time apart with GOD.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
---Samuelbb7 on 2/17/16


\\To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:\\

Notice that the Lord commands REST, and not worship.

||The Lord is commanding Moses, beginning in Ex 25.||

I'm not debating this. I want jerry to answer the question, as he seems to be saying that if it's not in the Decalogue, it's a commandment given by mere Moses.

I would like him to clarify what he's saying.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/17/16


aservant: Good answer!


NO ONE made Sunday holy, and it never will be. It is a counterfeit Sabbath.



---jerry6593 on 2/18/16


Do you mean to say that MOSES and not God required twice daily sacrifices . . .?
---Cluny on 2/17/16


The Lord is commanding Moses, beginning in Ex 25.

Ex 29:39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning, and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:

This was the required, assigned daily work of the priests. Common men were not involved until the sabbath day.

In today's NT times, all Spirit filled Christians are to make spiritual sacrifices to God (e.g., praise, thanksgiving, singing, sin confession, etc.). The final Blood sacrifice was made by Jesus, the ultimate, perfect Blood sacrifice.

1Pet 2:9, Eph 5:19-20, Col 1:12, Col 3:16, Heb 13:15
---aservant on 2/17/16


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Who made Sunday holy?
---jerry6593 on 2/17/16


No one.

Ex 3:5 . . . the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Ex 16:23 . . . the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

It is holy wherever God is present. God made the sabbath holy, not Sunday. Whatever day, and whatever place one honors the sabbath, that day and place is holy to God and to them.
---aservant on 2/17/16


Jerry said, "Not so. You have me confused with someone else. God inspired thoughts - not words. The authors wrote down the thoughts in their own words."

I apologize. It was Micha that I quoted. God be praised! Something that we agree on.

Monk Brendan
Resist Apostroflies!
---Monk_Brendan on 2/17/16


God inspired thoughts - not words. The authors wrote . . . their own words.
---jerry6593 on 2/17/16


Gen 1:26 . . . Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . .
Gen 2:7 . . . God . . . breathed into his nostrils the breath of life . . . man became a living soul.

Man resembles God = God is LIVING SOUL -> Man is living soul


2Tim 3:16 God breathed Scripture = created words that live.

John 6:63 . . . words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Humans cannot create words that live. God entered their bodies and Authored all Scripture.
---aservant on 2/17/16


Answer my question here, jerry, and I'll answer yours. Fair enough?

I'll repeat my question:

Do you mean to say that MOSES and not God required twice daily sacrifices in the Tabernacle and later the Temple?

Please clarify.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/17/16


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monk: "You have been telling me that God dictated everything that the prophets have written"

Not so. You have me confused with someone else. God inspired thoughts - not words. The authors wrote down the thoughts in their own words.

Since cluny is unable to answer this question, maybe you can.

Who made Sunday holy?



---jerry6593 on 2/17/16


Jerry said, "Those are not part of God's handwritten Commandments written on tables of stone and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant. They are instead part of Moses' handwriting of sacrificial ordinances, written on parchment, placed beside the Ark and subsequently nailed to the cross."

Come on, Jerry, that is sophistry, and you know it. You have been telling me that God dictated everything that the prophets have written, and that it all has to be followed, but then it is only the words that He Himself wrote on tablets of stone that are the LAW.

Make up your mind.

Monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 2/16/16


\\They are instead part of Moses' handwriting of sacrificial ordinances, written on parchment, placed beside the Ark and subsequently nailed to the cross.\\

Are you saying that MOSES and not God commanded twice daily services?

Please clarify.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/16/16


\\Those are not part of God's handwritten Commandments written on tables of stone and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.\\

The design for the Ark is not on the tables of stone, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/16/16


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/Those are not part of God's handwritten Commandments written on tables of stone and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant. They are instead part of Moses' handwriting of sacrificial ordinances, written on parchment, placed beside the Ark and subsequently nailed to the cross.\-jerry6593 on 2/16/16
Then, so also is the two greatest commandments, since they were not written in stone.
OTH, Jesus proclaimed ALL of the law and prophets under the two.
You have a poor interpretation of "The Law."
The phrase "cherry-picking" comes to mind.
---micha9344 on 2/16/16


The idea of sabbath is rest from ordinary work. The Lord rested on the sabbath day, so He wants us to mimic Him. For this resting with the Lord, He declared the sabbath day to be holy.

Since the church is the Bride, as Husband, God is essentially telling His "wife" to spend time with Him. He is more important than her routine work, so that work has to wait. The wife dedicates this day to attending to and serving her Husband in praise and worship. By doing this she is renewing and reinforcing her "marriage" each week.

Ex 20:8-11, 16:23-30, 31:13-14, Gen 2:3, Lev 19:3, 23:3, Is 54:5, 56:4-6, 62:5, 2 Co 11:2-3,
---aservant on 2/16/16


cluny: "He commanded TWICE DAILY sacrifices in the Tabernacle and Temple."

Do YOU obey these commands?

Those are not part of God's handwritten Commandments written on tables of stone and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant. They are instead part of Moses' handwriting of sacrificial ordinances, written on parchment, placed beside the Ark and subsequently nailed to the cross.

Which of your "church fathers" had the power to make Sunday holy?



---jerry6593 on 2/16/16


Work is a form a worship.
God commanded us to worship Him continually.
The Sabbath was a day of rest.
Don't listen to those that would bait-and-switch "rest" and "worship" or "work" and "lack of worship."
---micha9344 on 2/15/16


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\\How is Sunday a day of worship when God commanded work on that day?\\

As a matter of fact, jerry, God DID command worship on Sunday.

He commanded TWICE DAILY sacrifices in the Tabernacle and Temple.

This included Sunday.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/15/16


How is Sunday "kept" holy when it never was "made" holy?

How is Sunday a day of worship when God commanded work on that day?



---jerry6593 on 2/15/16


"How was the Sabbath "kept holy" if there were twice daily services in the Tabernacle, Temple, and Synagogues?" The sabbath was set apart for rest.
---joseph on 2/14/16


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