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Citizenship Of Native Country

My Grandfather came to the United States from Italy.

If a person desires to become a Naturalized United States Citizen, I have been wondering if they must denounce citizenship to their Native Country.

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 ---Rob on 3/20/16
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No, because people can be have dual citizenship with the Vatican City and the United States.

No one is a Native of Vatican City.

Couples who have citizenship in the Vatican have their children birthplace in Rome, Italy.

The Vatican doesn't issue Birth certificates.

The child belong to the Native Country the parent's left to work, live, and go to school in Vatican City.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/13/16


Yes, to become a citizen, you must renounce citizenship elsewhere. After renouncing citizenship elsewhere, the U.S. has agreements with some countries to allow U.S. citizens to seek "DUAL CITIZENSHIP" so you are simultaneously a citizen of more than one country. In that, you are either a child or have paid the fees.
---mike4879 on 9/11/16


\\If you say the things I shared are not true, you are a liar!!!"\\

But they are NOT true.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/16/16


Yes Cluny I said hundreds. Then when I checked and found out I was wrong. I admitted it. When I saw a special on the Vatican they had a room full. Which they did not say how many. You add only 20 are from the 1500's.

Fine I am not disagreeing with you. There are others made at a latter date. I am still not concerned about it.

I am not perfect as you have correctly pointed out before. I do try to correct my mistakes and apologize for them.

Repent and confess. We should agree on that.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/16/16


Rob said, "Monk Brendan, Satan is the father of lies. If you say the things I shared are not true, you are a liar!!!"

Another personal attack!

Please, Rob, I am trying not to stoop to invective. I try hard not to attack anyone. (sometimes I mess up, but that is my problem)

However, I have not called you demon possessed, or a liar, or even unsaved. I have tried to talk to you as I would to any other Christian.

Why do you feel it is necessary to attack me?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/15/16




According to what I've seen on the web (which must be approached with caution), there are only some 20 surviving papal tiaras, dating back to no further than the 1600's.

Life-changing fact, isn't it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/16


Samuel BB said, (on April 10. 2016) "As Christians we seek truth. Not spread lies.

The pope has hundreds of crowns. So what?

I oppose what they teach. Also we aren't to judge others."


Samuel, you DID say the pope had hundreds of crowns. So let's keep things straight, and not tell lies, even about ourselves, okay?

The question I have, though, is why you disagree with the official teaching of the Catholic Church.

Note, I said the official teaching, and not slanders purporting to be Catholic, but actually coming from Jimmy Swaggart or other false prophets.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/14/16


I am not upset about being wrong on hundreds. In my last post I just said a room full.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/13/16


Samuel, I'm familiar with the Wikipedia article you mentioned.

However many there might have been, most the the tiaras were destroyed by Napoleon, and there are not "hundreds" of them now, as you claimed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/12/16


Oh I found out about the man and who he was. But I didn't find what you talked about.

I watched a special about the Vatican and it showed a room filled with Crowns of various kinds.

On the History site When Popes Wore Crowns: A Pictorial History of the Papal Tiara. You can see them.

There are crowns but this pope doesn't wear them.

Look up Papal tiara in wikipedia. No denunciation just facts.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/11/16




I'm still waiting for Rob to tell us what these Illuminati symbols in Roman Catholic Churches are.

I asked him several days ago.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/16


I wish Trav you had given us the source of the quote in book and page.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/8/16

I give you the name. It is as simple as searching the name.
---Trav on 4/11/16


Rob said, "They don't worship the sun and don't have a OBELISK in the middle of Saint Peters Square, which is an idol of Baal, and Catholics are told they are to bow to an WORSHIP!!!! This is just the beginning of what can be exposed!!!"

Rob, have you ever looked at the obelisk in St. Peter's Square? It is topped with a cross, which shows that Christ was victorious over the gods of Egypt.

And nobody has ever been told to bow down or worship that obelisk.

And we have never been taught--just as it is not taught in the Bible--that we are to worship the sun.

Where are you getting these ideas?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/10/16


\\The pope has hundreds of crowns.\\

I don't know where you got this info.

Most of the triple tiaras, never a liturgical item, were destroyed by Napoleon. Pope Paul VI retired it at the end of V2.

The Mitre is NOT a crown.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/10/16


Rob, you seem to have missed the meaning of my posting about Protestant churches and Illuminati.

My point is you can't believe everything you read on the internet, especially about conspiracy ideas.

The problem with them is any rational argument against them becomes twisted into proof by those who want to believe in them, even though the Bible tells us NOT to do so in Isaiah 8:12.

You can even find sites linking Billy Graham with the Illuminati. What does that tell you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/10/16


Rob Check your sources. I am fairly sure everything you said was false.

Do you use the pagan names of the days of the week or names of the months of the year?

That is the same thing. No one knows what Dagon hats looked like.

As Christians we seek truth. Not spread lies.

The pope has hundreds of crowns. So what?

I oppose what they teach. Also we aren't to judge others.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

I will speak to Monk Brendan as a Christian brother since he proclaims Jesus as his savior. I will treat you with the same respect. We are to respect and love each other.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/10/16


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Rob, just a few points.

1. The inverted cross has ever been an emblem of St. Peter, who was crucified upside down at his request, because he felt himself unworthy to die as Jesus did.

2. The Wester mitre has nothing to do with Dagon or fishes. Those who think so have seen neither mitre nor fish.

3. Nobody has ever been told to worship the obelisk in St. Peter's square. Anyone who claims that is simply lying.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/10/16


Rob, the Cross on the Pope's throne is inverted because this is the seat of St. Peter, who was crucified head downward--hence, an inverted cross.

In the ordination of a bishop, the following words are said over the bishop's mitre: "We, O Lord, place on the head of this Thy bishop and champion, the helmet of protection and salvation, so that his face being adorned and his head armed with the horns of both testaments, he may seem terrible to the opponents of truth, ... Through Christ Our Lord."

In other words, it is made to scare the devil. It is neither a fish head or a symbol of dagon, a demon that Christ defeated.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/10/16


Monk Brendan, if you say on the popes so called throne the CROSS IS NOT INVERTED (upside down), the pope does not carry a twisted crucifix, the popes does not wear a DAGON GOD HEAD DRESS. They don't worship the sun and don't have a OBELISK in the middle of Saint Peters Square, which is an idol of Baal, and Catholics are told they are to bow to an WORSHIP!!!! This is just the beginning of what can be exposed!!!

Monk Brendan, Satan is the father of lies. If you say the things I shared are not true, you are a liar!!!
---Rob on 4/10/16


Cluny, this may surprise you and you may not believe it, but I agree with you 100 percent there is paganism and illuminati signs, symbols, and rituals in some Protestant Churches.

What you failed to share is they are things they held onto when splitting from the Catholic Church.

Cluny, when I was inducted into the Army, we had to declare if we were, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or Other.

I declared myself as being other, because I'm not Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish. I'm a Christian.

Cluny, I have come to believe you don't think a person can be a Christian without being Religious!!!
---Rob on 4/9/16


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Just for fun and giggles, I googled "Protestantism and Illuminati."

You'd be surprised what you find out there, including articles linking the Reformation with the Illuminati and listing of which evangelical organizations are controlled by them.

What should this tell you about the trustworthiness of what you can find on the web?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/9/16


Rob said, " Monk Brendan and Cluny, all you need to do is Google illuminati signs and symbols in Catholic Churches."

I did. Besides the various Catholic haters, which blame the Catholic Church for everything from the hole in the ozone layer, to the over fishing of tuna by Japan to climate change--besides the millenia we have led people astray from the Lord and cast them into hell (and there are a lot of such hate filled people and web sites), I found no indication of any Illuminati signs or symbols in the Catholic Church.

What type of Illuminati signs and symbols are we supposed to be using? I know you can't give a link, but just a general description. (I like to do research too!)
---Monk_Brendan on 4/8/16


True Rob they could find people who say that. But it is not logical since the Illuminati were from a latter time period.

Now it is possible the Illuminati adopted and changed some symbols used by the RCC. But that invalidates the attack. Which is why some don't want to do that.

I disagree with many of the teachings of the RCC. But I wish to use only the Bible as my basis. Not guesses or symbols. After all the days of our weeks are from Pagan sources in the English version.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/8/16


In other words, you have no evidence that either the Catholic Church or the Pope uses Illuminati symbols.

YOU made the accusation. YOU present the evidence.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/8/16


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Monk Brendan and Cluny, all you need to do is Google illuminati signs and symbols in Catholic Churches.

Also Google
Pope uses illuminati symbols.
---Rob on 4/8/16


I wish Trav you had given us the source of the quote in book and page.

I want to point out in the quote he didn't use the term Illuminati. Why? They were antiCatholic and didn't exist when the church was forming.

We should never use lies to teach the truth.

I understand why you don't believe he is a moral authority Monk Brendan. But he is not being quoted as a Moral Authority. But as a Historian. A proper rebuttal would be his history is incorrect. Can you show his history is incorrect?

Yes you are correct on the Illuminati. Good point.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/8/16


Trav said, "Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD"
Walter Veith is rabidly anti-Catholic, and a member of the SDA.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/7/16

Hmmmm, so his ex catholic views have merit in that you attack the man instead of his proof. His views foundation that he knows you guys well. Amazing you imply...that even the SDA know you guys are pagan.
If not dead, he would probably call you a rabid kissing monk.

Joh_8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Maybe...
---Trav on 4/7/16


Trav said, "Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD"

Walter Veith is rabidly anti-Catholic, and a member of the SDA. Do you consider him to be a moral authority? This is a real question, Trav. You brought him up. I personally don't consider him a moral authority on anything.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/7/16


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Rob said, "Monk Brendan, why do Catholic Churches have pagan and ILLUMINATI SIGNS and SYMBOLS (which are signs and symbols of Satan), in their churches and use them in their rituals?"

Exactly which ILLUMINATI SIGNS and SYMBOLS are you talking about? (I like to research too!) I don't have pages in which to write, but the Illuminati began as an Anti-Catholic secret society, learned a lot from the Masons, and have since disappeared.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/7/16


\\Monk Brendan, why do Catholic Churches have pagan and ILLUMINATI SIGNS and SYMBOLS (which are signs and symbols of Satan), in their churches and use them in their rituals?\\

Can you tell us what these signs and symbols are, especially as the Illuminati is an 18th century ANTI-Catholic movement?

I, for one, shall await with interest, Rob.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/6/16


Cluny in the. Bible the Pharisees taught the resurrection from the dead. The Sadducee taught death was the end of life.

Where in the Bible did it say they taught immortal souls?

You will find it in Plato.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/6/16


\\The RCC ...did adopt a lot of Pagan ways and thoughts. \\

Please name some, ....
---Cluny on 4/2/16

Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD states: Catholic Church makes tradition above or equal to Scripture, many traditions stem from pagan sun worship. Its teachings, beliefs and practices come from Mithraisma form of paganism that existed in Babylonian times. Roman Catholic doctrines infant baptism, sprinkling baptism, teachings on death and immortality, tonsured and celibate priests with power over the dead, prayers to the dead and to relics, repetitive prayers with the use of beads, doctrines on forgiveness of sins,on hell, mass, and Sunday worship are doctrines actually derived directly from ancient Babylon, not the Bible.
---Trav on 4/6/16


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Monk Brendan, you asked for one credible source to show the Catholic Church is pagan and Anti-Christ, and there are many.

You may have forgotten I love to do research.

Monk Brendan, why do Catholic Churches have pagan and ILLUMINATI SIGNS and SYMBOLS (which are signs and symbols of Satan), in their churches and use them in their rituals?
---Rob on 4/5/16


///...Leon I am jealous. I would love to visit the great and beautiful works of art in the Vatican and Rome...---Samuelbb7 on 4/2/16///

Don't be jealous friend. As God made it possible for me, He can do it for you too one day. :)
---Leon on 4/5/16


\\Samuel BB said, "In paganism there were Demigods. They're replaced by saints. The doctrine of immortal soul.\\

The idea of an immortal soul is part of Orthodox Judaism that Christianity inherited.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/4/16


Samuel, I'm sure you know this, but others may not.

The demigods were the result of dalliances between mortals and classical pagan gods.

Christian saints are ordinary believers who lived the Christian life extraordinarily--and in the words of a child, let the Light shine through..

There is neither resemblance nor connection between the two.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/3/16


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Samuel BB said, "In paganism there were Demigods. They're replaced by saints. The doctrine of immortal soul.

Days like Christmas and other days that were Pagan were turned into Christian holy days."


Samuel, I have too much respect for you to start a row, however, I have been studying a "Lives of the Popes" Specifically
Lives of The Popes- Reissue: The Pontiffs from St. Peter to Benedict XVI
by Richard P. McBrien. Yes, there have been bad popes. Yes, the Papacy was moved to Avignon. But neither of them made the Catholic Church bad, much less pagan and/or antichrist. Read the book, and then we can have a reasonable conversation.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/3/16


Samuel, saints have nothing to do with demigods. Only a very shallow person (which you are not) would say there was a connection. (A side note--originally the commemoration of saints were the martyrs of a local church.)

Actually 25 December was determined to be the date of the Nativity of Christ BEFORE it became the birth of Mithras.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/3/16


In paganism there were Demigods. They're replaced by saints. The doctrine of immortal soul.

Days like Christmas and other days that were Pagan were turned into Christian holy days.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/2/16


\\The RCC while still a Christian church did adopt a lot of Pagan ways and thoughts. \\

Please name some, saying when they were adopted and who introduced them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/2/16


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Leon I am jealous. I would love to visit the great and beautiful works of art in the Vatican and Rome.

Cluny The Pope was removed from Rome and sent to Avignon in 1309.

Which lead along with some other history stories to the saying in England that the Pope maybe French but Jesus was English. The point about Jesus being English is from stories.

But the point is that the Pope ruled from Rome until then and then returned latter.

The RCC while still a Christian church did adopt a lot of Pagan ways and thoughts.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/2/16


\\I understand that a person can have "duel citizenship". One can be American plus be a citizen of another country. But there could be countries which the United States will not recognize for American duel citizenship with those countries. \\

Bill, the word is "duAl", not "duEl."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/2/16


\\ From years of study and research, I have learned the Vatican is pagan and Anti-Christ!"\\

In your years of study and research, did you find out that the popes did not move to the Vatican until AFTER the Avignon popes in the 14th century or thereabouts? That's plenty of time for it to have NO pagan connection.

According to St. John, the spirit of Antichrist is to deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Whatever the Popes may have done, this is NOT among them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/1/16


Bill said, "And . . . "of course" . . . there is our nation which does not have natural born citizens. In order to be in the "holy nation" (1 Peter 2:9) of Jesus, one needs to become born-again (c:"

Bill, if one is "born again," then isn't one automatically a citizen by birth? Being born again literally means just that, that our old, sinful man is dead, and that we are reborn into a new life with Christ?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/1/16


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Rob said, "Someday, I hope to visit Italy because it is part of my ancestry.

I'm thankful have I have no desire to visit the Vatican and I will never be a citizen of the Vatican.

From years of study and research, I have learned the Vatican is pagan and Anti-Christ!"


Excuse me? Please point to one CREDIBLE source that has actually proven that the Vatican is pagan or Anti-Christ. By credible, I am not talking about any reformation or post reformation authors, nor do I want critiques of individual popes.

BTW, something cannot be both pagan and anti-Christ. One or the other.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/1/16


Rob: If you have Google Earth on your computer you can take a virtual tour around Vatican City & Roma. Just type in Vatican City, click on the orange man icon & move it to anywhere you want to go on the yellow lines. Ciao!
---Leon on 3/26/16


///Someday, I hope to visit Italy because it is part of my ancestry.

I'm thankful have I have no desire to visit the Vatican and I will never be a citizen of the Vatican.

From years of study and research, I have learned the Vatican is pagan and Anti-Christ!
---Rob on 3/25/16///

I had Embassy duty, in Roma, a few years ago. Roma & the rest of Italy is beautiful & the food is magnificent!

Vatican City is in Rome. It's open to tourist (except for the restricted areas of the Vatican where the Pope & Cardinals do business & reside). The Sistine Chapel, painted by Michelangelo, is awesome. No, I'm not Catholic. :)
---Leon on 3/26/16


Hi, Rob (c:

I understand that a person can have "duel citizenship". One can be American plus be a citizen of another country. But there could be countries which the United States will not recognize for American duel citizenship with those countries. And there may be countries who will not accept having their people share citizenship with the United States.

Native peoples of America have been sovereign nations. They might have their own citizenships along with being legally American citizens.

And . . . "of course" . . . there is our nation which does not have natural born citizens. In order to be in the "holy nation" (1 Peter 2:9) of Jesus, one needs to become born-again (c:
---Bill on 3/25/16


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Someday, I hope to visit Italy because it is part of my ancestry.

I'm thankful have I have no desire to visit the Vatican and I will never be a citizen of the Vatican.

From years of study and research, I have learned the Vatican is pagan and Anti-Christ!
---Rob on 3/25/16


/There is one country where no one is born as it's citizen.\-Nicole_Lacey on 3/21/16
-Agreed
/Citizenship is granted under CERTAIN CONDITIONS.\-Nicole_Lacey on 3/23/16
-Agreed. Age is not one of those conditions.
---micha9344 on 3/24/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Many countries grant citizenship via jus solis (right of the soil) to anyone born there, and/orjus sanguinis (right of the blood) to children of citizens. These sometimes conflict. A former co-worker fled Hungary as a child during the Communist revolution. He did not dare take his children back to visit relatives, because although they were born in Canada, Hungary considered them citizens and might not let them leave.

The Vatican supports neither, and anyone who loses Vatican citizenship and has no other automatically gains Italian citizenship. (I presume this would also apply to anyone accidentally born on Vatican soil, unless jus sanguinis applies from somewhere else).
---StrongAxe on 3/24/16


...although children living with their citizen parents could also be citizens.---StrongAxe

Thanks.

Micha, I guess I didn't make myself clear.

You can not be a citizen just because you are born on the land.
There isn't any hospitals in Vatican City.

The spouses of the employees have their children in Rome. (Italy)

I guess a lady might have a baby in Vatican city by MISTAKE, (which isn't documented since it became a country in 1929 to my knowledge) but it doesn't mean the child is a citizen unless as Strongaxe wrote above.

But nevertheless the citizenship wasn't granted MERELY because he or she was birth within it's walls.

Citizenship is granted under CERTAIN CONDITIONS.
---Nicole_Lacey on 3/23/16


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micha9344:

You wrote: This is a false statement.

From Wikipedia Vatican City:

Unlike citizenship of other states, which is based either on jus sanguinis ... or on jus soli ..., citizenship of Vatican City is granted jus officii, namely on the grounds of appointment to work in a certain capacity in the service of the Holy See. It usually ceases upon cessation of the appointment. Citizenship is extended also to the spouse, parents and descendants of a citizen, provided they are living with the person who is a citizen.

So yes, you need to be an adult (children typically aren't priests or guards), although children living with their citizen parents could also be citizens.
---StrongAxe on 3/23/16


/You become a citizen as an adult.
Vatican City.\-Nicole_Lacey on 3/21/16
This is a false statement.
---micha9344 on 3/23/16


Rob: I hope the foregoing answers your question sufficiently.
---Leon on 3/22/16


Leon:

You quoted: Schneider v. Rusk

This has two parts. The first part is true because, even though U.S. law requires the candidate to renounce his former citizenship before becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen, such renunciation may not necessarily be recognized by the laws of the original country.

The second part is true because, if you have dual citizenship for any reason, you don't lose your U.S. citizenship unless you explicitly renounce it. Accepting political office in another country IS considered renunciation, however. E.g. Meir Kahane.
---StrongAxe on 3/21/16


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"Based on the U.S. State Department regulation on dual citizenship (7 FAM 1162), the [SCOTUS says] dual citizenship is a 'status long recognized in the law' & 'a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries & be subject to the responsibilities of both.' The assertion of the rights of one citizenship [doesn't]... mean that [one] renounces the other, Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717 (1952). In Schneider v. Rusk, 377 U.S. 163 (1964), the [SCOTUS] ruled that a naturalized U.S. citizen has the right to return to his native country & to resume his former citizenship, & also to remain a U.S. citizen even if he never returns to the United States." (Source: Wikipedia)
---Leon on 3/21/16


There is one country where no one is born as it's citizen.

You become a citizen as an adult.

Vatican City.
---Nicole_Lacey on 3/21/16


Rob:

In order for a foreign individual to gain U.S. citizenship, he must fulfill certain requirements, swear an oath before a judge, and renounce allegiances (e.g. citizenships) to any and all foreign governments.

It is possible to have dual cigizenship with U.S. and another country, but only if you have U.S. citizenship first, and gain another citizenship later from a country that does not require you to renounce (as the U.S. does), or to be born with dual citizenship (e.g. be born in one country of parents from another).
---StrongAxe on 3/21/16


NO!

---Leon on 3/20/16


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The word is "REnounce," not "DEnounce."

I don't know how the oath of citizenship reads or what naturalization law requires, but I'm sure you can find out on line.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/21/16


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