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Soul Before Birth

Where was our soul before we were born?

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 ---CAROL on 4/6/16
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kathr: Apparently cluny has forgotten that words have meaning.

Too bad the blog question was barely addressed - as usual.

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ, the Creator and Author of the Ten Commandments, who experienced the depths of human emotions.


---Jerry6593 on 5/1/16


Wow Samuel, was that "punch" for me too. For being accused of adding things to the bible that are not there?

And soul sleep is?
Mother of God?
And pergetory is?

The discussion wasn't about a word here BUT the fact that Jesus describes a "feeling" a feeling that has many words that can describe that same feeling He once says in His soul ....in His spirit.

OR was the punch because it's one of those GOTCHA things because you are both called out for words and biblical DOCTRINE not in scripture.

Well, using the word VEXED didn't CHANGE any truth or DOCTRINE here. But "if" in your small minds you think it did.....then ANY discussion beyond 1st grade is useless.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/16


In John 11:3335, Jesus is deeply moved in his spirit and greatly troubled and even weeps. John 12:27 says, Now is my soul troubled, and in John 13:21, he is troubled in his spirit.

Cluny, someone deeply moved or deeply troubled in soul and spirit can also be vexed...as was Lot...2 Peter 7-8.

Shame on you Cluny for not understanding the definition of vexed.

Although the word vexed is not the EXACT WORD in John 12 and 13, the meaning and definition is the same. Therefore the meaning of vexed can be STRONG HUMAN EMOTIONS of which Jesus felt. I bet you thought it meant demon possessed. Tooooooo funny.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/16


Genesis 49:22-23

22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well, whose branches run over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

The ORIGINAL Hebrew word here for sorely grieved WAS VEXED.

Look it up in your Strongs Concordance Cluny. Type in vexed, and see what Genesis 49:23 says.

NOW do you believe Jesus was at times sorely grieved/ vexed? I DO!

Jesus felt HUMAN emotions.
---kathr453 on 4/30/16


Thank you Cluny you beat me to the punch.

Happy Easter. Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/30/16




\\Jesus said, my soul is vexed within, and my spirit is vexed within\\

SHAME on you, kathr.

Jesus never said EITHER thing, at least according to the KJV.

Why do you REPEATEDLY claim that things are in the Bible that simply are not there?

Again: SHAME ON YOU!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/30/16


Samuel, I believe scripture uses soul and spirit at times inter-changeable. There are some verses Jesus said, my soul is vexed within, and my spirit is vexed within. Now we do have proof that the soul and spirit depart from the flesh when we die, however there is no scriptural proof the soul and spirit of MAN separate at death where one dies and the other still exists. Since the soul is not a tangible substance , as our fleshly body is. You cannot PROVE it disintegrates at death. Jesus own death as a man proves it does not.

No other created being has a soul but man. The body was formed out of the dust of the earth, but the soul was not. And remember God didn't breath in animal nostrils. Yet it is said in Ecc they have a spirit.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/16


What's the difference between eternal life and immortality? Why would you need immortality if you already had eternal life? What does the phrase "But the rest of the dead lived not again (Rev 20:5)" mean to you? Jerry////

Jerry, I already explained the difference between eternal and immortality. The soul can be in a state of eternal suffering or eternal joy. The bible never once uses the term "immortal soul" . Jesus brought LIFE ...eternal life AND IMMORTALITY through the Gospel. Two entirely different things.
Hebrews 12, the spirits of Just men/souls made perfect, will not have put on immortality ( the NEW BODY) until the first resurrection.

Don't confuse immortality with pagan ideas.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/16


I agree with much recently stated. But the Spirit and the soul are not the same thing. So I disagree with spirt/soul.

There is the Spirit and then there is the soul.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/30/16


Jerry, God breathed into Adam, Adam became a LIVING SOUL. Not a robot. Not an immortal soul, or an immortal body. Now let's take Angels. They are created spirits. They will exist FOREVER, yet no angel is IMMORTAL, because they were never MORTAL in the first place. Mortal/ immortal has to do with HUMANS. The MAN Christ Jesus is Immortal, and the ONLY one who is at this time. Jesus/ God was always eternal.

Jesus said, thou will not leave my SOUL in hell. Jesus BODY remained in the tomb and His SOUL went into Paradise for 3 days. Jesus came to save our SOUL from hell, so WE will never have to go there, not even for 3 days. Our SOUL goes to heaven as we wait for our new bodies at the first resurrection...then putting on IMMORTALITY.
---kathr453 on 4/30/16




Our souls were in our bodies in our mother's womb since our conception.

Before our conception we didn't have a soul nor did we existed.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/29/16


Kathr: The spirit/soul gives life (animation) to the body. No spirit/soul, no life. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is the one stated in the Bible. God had to block their way to the tree of life. Otherwise, they'd eat of it & live forever in sin, in their spirit as well as physical bodies.
---Leon on 4/27/16


Jerry, I don't know that Adam and Eve were immortal before they sinned. There is no proof they ever ate from the tree of life while in the garden. Now after they sinned, they were removed from the garden and blocked from the tree of life so that they would not become immortal ( live forever) with a sin nature.

So let's say, for example they did eat after sinning. Would the soul and body be immortal? Must be. GOd said lest they live FOREVER. Or would the soul then have departed from the body? BUT the body would live forever?
---kathr4453 on 4/27/16


kathr: "We have NOW been given ETERNAL LIFE.....and in the future IMMORTALITY."

What's the difference between eternal life and immortality? Why would you need immortality if you already had eternal life? What does the phrase "But the rest of the dead lived not again (Rev 20:5)" mean to you?

God said "thou shalt surely die", but Satan countered "Ye shall not surely die". We each have to choose whether to believe God or Satan.

Man was immortal as long as he had access to the tree of life, but that access was blocked after sin. We are no longer immortal, but may "put on" immortality if faithful at Christ's second advent.



---jerry6593 on 4/27/16


GOD is omnipresent. He neither sleeps or slumbers. He is immortal and has existed for all eternity.

So your question doesn't make any sense. Since we are talking about created beings. We are Mortal.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Corithians 15:53,54
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/26/16


\\ So to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. First Paul doesn't say his soul goes to heaven. \\

So where is the Lord, Samuelssb?

Napping as well?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/25/16


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True we have been given eternal life and future immortality.

Which means we are not immortal now and have no immortal souls. We are promised the resurrection from the dead.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Philemon 3:11
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/25/16


Samuel, go back and read ALL verses before and after Paul,said " absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." It appears we are , once dead, waiting to be clothed with our new body. ..the dead IN CHRIST..is another interesting statement. Asleep IN THE LORD, AGAIN ANOTHER. Colossians 3-1-4....we are dead, hidden with God IN CHRIST. Life NOR DEATH, can separate us who are IN THE LORD. Romans 8. Samuel when we died with Christ, Romans 6, and raised a NEW Creature IN CHRIST, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

Don't any of these truths mean anything to you? The New Creature of which we possess RIGHT NOW, will never die. We have NOW been given ETERNAL LIFE.....and in the future IMMORTALITY.
---kathr453 on 4/24/16


Kathyr you only posted one scripture that was that GOD would destroy the wicked. Which I pointed agreed with my teaching. When I asked for your scriptures that contradicted the one you had previously posted. You gave none.

Cluny posted on souls under the altar and we discussed that one.

So to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. First Paul doesn't say his soul goes to heaven. So what does he mean. When we die. We as the bible says sleep. So I go to sleep then seem to immediately wake up and see Jesus coming in the clouds. To me I am immediately with the Lord at my death.

You complained about the OT Scriptures. Do you believe the Bible contradicts itself? True much more is revealed in the NT.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/16


Samuel, I have answered your question. Unfortunately you post only OT scripture. Yet Jesus, who,is God clearly told us in Luke that there is awareness of those who's bodies have died still continue to live in a state that CAN feel, think and have awareness of where they are. Things hidden in the OT are now openly revealed in the New. There are many scriptures in the New showing those who are saved...and die...absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Hebrews ..the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT. PERFECTION of OT saints CAME AT JESUS RESURRECTIONS. What was perfected, the soul of man, or the spirit of man? Jesus came to save our soul, not our spirit.

I could ask you the same....why don't you respond to NT truth.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/16


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kathyr nor is there a soul blob floating around heaven. We are a living soul. You have not shown a Bible verse that agrees with your statements of the soul going to heaven in a sentient state is denied by Scripture.

Psalms 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalms 88:10
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

On earth men will forget us. But GOD will not.

If we are already in heaven at death why do we have to be resurrected?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/16


I'm glad that you agree with me that there is no such thing as spooks - disembodied spirits of the dead floating around here or in heaven.
---jerry6593 on 4/24/16

Yet we do see the SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW who don't have their immortal bodies yet. Only Jesus right now is IMMORTAL. They have to wait for us, so says the last verse in Hebrews 12. I don't believe they are floating around up there, but who knows. I also don't believe they are the souls under the alter either, Revelation, but who knows. I know they aren't floating around here, as some believe Mary is.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/16


However, the writer also says they are different, saying of mankind, "And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it" Ecc 12:7. Animals do not have souls Ecc. 3:21, which will be judged Ecc 11:9. The Bible does not mention a hell for animals. Scripture does not say of animals to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Cor. 5:8. Nor does it speak of their resurrection John 5:28-29, Rev. 20:4-6 or new bodies. So, there are some substantial differences between humans and animals.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/16


Not just those two groups, but animals as well.///////

Ecclesiastes 3:21

21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Sorry Jerry, but if you had continued to read past that one verse, you would have seen this. This ALSO validates Hebrews 12. Yet nothing about UNJUST SPIRITS of men going back to God in heaven, anymore than unrighteous Angels being there either.
---kathr453 on 4/24/16


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Kathr: "Or is God's breath just returning to Him? Both the wicked and the righteous?"

Not just those two groups, but animals as well.

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts, even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other, yea, they have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

The breath of life is not an independent spirit but the life force that makes bodies live.

I'm glad that you agree with me that there is no such thing as spooks - disembodied spirits of the dead floating around here or in heaven.


---jerry6593 on 4/24/16


Now looking very carefully again at Hebrews 12. What all do we see listed in heaven RIGHT NOW? Now think, God created Angels, who are spirits. They have no soul. So only the righteous angels are in heaven, where they have always been with God. Since Angels have no SOULS, and since God did not redeem Angels in the first place, the fallen angels are awaiting judgement. But of only our spirit was in heaven, what distinguishes us from the Angels? Jesus came to save our SOUL, not our spirit or an angel spirit. So the spirits of JUST MEN /SOULS made perfect distinguish us from the Angels. Humans have a soul within the spirit. Angels do not.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/16


Jerry there is no such thing as a non-corporeal soul, or a corporeal soul, .....and not one verse in scripture says immortal soul. Yes corporeal means physical, so you think non-corporeal means spiritual or a non physical soul? It doesn't work that way. We are body soul and spirit. Someone stated when we die the spirit immediately returns to the Father. Does this spirit have an identity? The identity of each one of us? If you say YES, then that identity is the soul of the man. Or is God's breath just returning to Him? Both the wicked and the righteous?


Physical again is the epidermas...the body. The RESURRECTED JESUS IS IMMORTAL, Because he now has a body. Jesus was not immortal before He was made flesh, He was ETERNAL.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/16


Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. SDA's say WE jump to the wrong conclusion that this is a reference to righteous souls going to heaven.
Hebrews 12:22-But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The Spirits of JUST MEN MADE PERFECT. Here we have individual identity of JUST MEN/ SOULS. ( the MEN part cannot be their physical bodies)There is no spirit BLOB floating around heaven.
---kathr453 on 4/23/16


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Gen 1:28 God is talking to the male and female spirits
Afterward . . .
Gen 2:7 Man became a living soul
Gen 2:23 God made woman with no mention of her soul, thus her soul was from Adam's rib

It seems a baby's soul is formed at conception, and comes from the souls of its father and mother.
---aservant on 4/23/16


I still have a (yet unanswered) question:

What is the difference between the fundamentals of spiritualism and those of belief in the immortality of the non-corporeal soul?

---jerry6593 on 4/23/16


Samuel, in the OT hell, Sheol, Hades were all used for a place the souls of men went after they died. One part was called even by Jesus " Abraham's bosom, where Luke clearly describes a great divide of the righteous and wicked souls. Abraham's bosom was also known as Paradise. "Today you will be with me in Paradise". Jesus soul was in hell, Hades, Sheol, the Paradise part/ Abraham's bosom part for 3 days. It took His resurrection to lead captivity captive, setting the captives free and they are NOW in heaven with God, Jesus, the Church and the General assembly, just as Hebrews 12 tell us.

The problem Samuel is you all do not believe Luke is a literal truth.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/16


One of the meanings of hell is the grave. The greek word is hades. It can be translated according to strongs as "later use of this word: the grave, death, hell".

The immortal soul was a common Greek and latter Roman thought.

But GOD will destroy the soul of the wicked. The soul dies.

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Please show Bible verses for your belief.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/16


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Angels, who are created spirits without souls or bodies will never cease to exist. Each created unique with their own personal identity. Hell was originally made for the fallen angels, aka the wicked. Man is made of body soul and spirit. The body can decay and return to the dust, but the soul and spirit were never dust in the first place. We too are also unique in that each one of us has an identity.
Our soul does not vaporize when our body dies. Nor do they remain with the remains of our dead flesh and bones.

When Jesus told the man on the cross next to Him....TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME, what part of the man was with what part of Jesus? Thou will not LEAVE MY SOUL IN HELL. Jesus soul had awareness after His crucifixion.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/16


Yes Micha9344. Hell will destroy the wicked then they will cease to exist. After which the lake of fire will have nothing to burn.

People will be like the people of Sodom. Which is happening right now.

I don't understand your point that being destroyed is not the finality for the wicked.

1Corithians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Timothy 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/16


immortality is relative to human life that does not end, whereas eternity is relative to time or space.

Jesus brought LIFE aka Eternal Life AND immortality through the Gospel. Our soul once born is eternal. But Eternal LIFE vs eternal death ( death here does not mean EXTINQUISHED, but separation from God. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Adam sinned and Satan holds the power of death Hebrews 2. Jesus death and resurrection broke that power of death over man. Through HIM we now have Eternal LIFE re our souls, meaning being reconciled to God. But this reconciliation does not make our "now bodies" immortal. When we die we are waiting to be clothed in our NEW Bodies, and that is when this mortal has put on immortality.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/16


/So give a bible verse that contradicts your previous verse.\-Samuelbb7 on 4/21/16
That is a silly request. Scripture doesn't contradict itself.
I presume you mean this verse:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
It is God who gives immortality to the soul: It is God who can take it.
Immortal doesn't equate to indestructible.
The Bible says we "put on" immortality (1Co 15:53), yet it also says only Jesus is immortal (1Tim 6:16).
God destroyed the wicked in Sodom, yet Jesus talked of Sodom in the last days.
It seems destruction is not a finality for the wicked.
Hell is also temporary.
---micha9344 on 4/21/16


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You present the theory of men based on the words of men. When the scripture you gave states the wicked will be destroyed.
If the soul is immortal it will not be destroyed.
So give a bible verse that contradicts your previous verse.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/16


Adopting a false doctrine still makes it yours.
/And it follows that that which thinks what is opposed to the body and against its nature must be distinct in kind. What then can this be, save a rational and immortal soul?\-Athanasius 296-373AD
/The immortal soul dwells in a mortal tabernacle, and Christians dwell as sojourners in corruptible [bodies], looking for an incorruptible dwelling in the heavens,\-Ignatius 35-108AD
The false Arian doctrine that JW have adopted is over 1k years old also.
Having age doesn't mean truth.
---micha9344 on 4/20/16


First conditionalism predates the sda church by over a thousand years. So you are making a false accusation about us. Is it okay for you to do that?

Were not a box. We have a spirit that makes us alive. Show me from the Bible what you believe chapter and verse.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/20/16


Your analogy didn't kill or destroy anything, except the box.
Try burning up the boards and see if you can still build the box.
Poor analogy.
Destroy the boards - destroy the box.
No boards - no box
Destroy the body - destroy the soul
No body - No soul per SDA doctrine.
Blinded by the false prophetess.
And, yes, our Maker knows how to both rebuild the boards and the box.
---micha9344 on 4/20/16


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Michael: I can be cryptic too:

No body = no soul. - TRUE
Kill the body, kill the soul. - FALSE


Let's build a box of boards and nails. Fine, Now remove the nails. What do we have? Some boards and some nails. So where is the box? The same place the soul is. IT CEASES TO EXIST. But, the box maker remembers how to re-make the box.



---jerry6593 on 4/20/16


Kathyr you seemed to have missed where I pointed out that when the Body is killed or we die that is not the end. The Spirit returns to GOD and then all wicked and righteous are resurrected.

To truly kill the soul both body and Spirit must be destroyed. As the passage says and I have agreed to before is that only GOD can do that. Only he will do that when the wicked are destroyed in hell and die the Second death.

LEON are you LDS? They are the only church that I know that teaches that doctrine. But you could be from a different group.

You have no Bible verses that agree with your understanding.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/16


Samuel, yes what Saul did was witchcraft. That wasn't the issue. The very idea that Saul believed he could contact Samuel shows that OT saints did not believe the soul became extinguished.

NT has several references ....THesselonians. "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Also Heb 12...and Rev. " souls under the alter." And of coarse Luke.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/16


"Where was our soul before we were born?" Very good question Carol. It's not as complicated as some imagine. All souls (breathing & cognitively intelligent spirit creatures) come from Spirit God, the Creator. We are essentially "God breathed" spirit beings (made in His image/likeness) that live in earthen bodies & have souls (minds).
---Leon on 4/18/16


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/Correct no Body no Soul.\-Samuelbb7 on 4/17/16
/You do the math Michael.\-jerry6593 on 4/16/16
I am. No body = no soul.
Kill the body, kill the soul.
So, SDA doctrine states.
But Scripture denies this:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The prophetess' interpretation of Gen 2:7 is wrong. It is not an equation.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
---micha9344 on 4/18/16


Kathyr could you please give those Bible verses that state soul departs. I believe it is mentioned once in the Old Testament.

On the Saul. Remeber the King had forsaken GOD and the truth. Also that GOD had forsaken Saul.

So you think the Witch had the power to go against the will of GOD and bring up Saul. Also the witch gave a description. Saul couldn't see the ghost.

1Chronicles 10:13

So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it,

So should we ask questions of the dead?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/18/16


I have a question:

What is the difference between the fundamentals of spiritualism and those of belief in the immortality of the non-corporeal soul?



---jerry6593 on 4/18/16


James says, the body without the soul is dead. Not the other way around. The first human body was created on day 6. God breathed life into that body, and Adam became a living soul. No soul was commanded to enter the body. So souls did not exist prior to the creation of man. When our human body dies our soul no longer remains with the body, and we see from OT and Jesus teaching in the NT the soul of each one of us is still called by our given name. If it were taught the soul died, then King Saul never would have thought for a minute he could summon Samuel from the dead. Jesus who is God who cannot lie also showed in Luke the soul after departing from the body is still in a conscious state, using specific names of specific people.
---kathr4453 on 4/18/16


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Correct no Body no Soul.

Some but not all of the definitions of soul include.

breath
the breath of life
the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
of animals
of men
life
that in which there is life
a living being, a living soul
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/16


// So, without the body there is no soul?

---micha9344 on 4/15/16 //


Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man BECAME a living soul.

You do the math Michael.



---jerry6593 on 4/16/16


First Cluny what is the altar in heaven that you are speaking of. I know why I believe there is an Altar there. But what Physical altar you see in Heaven?

Secondly. What are they crying for vengeance? Don't Christians follow the Example of Jesus and ask for forgiveness for their enemies?

Now my answer to you. This is a metaphorical event. Like the blood of Abel crying out from the ground.

So please answer me my questions on why and how you think this is real.

Note Revelation has a lot of symbolism in it. So this would match much of Revelation.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/15/16


This is an SDA doctrine that makes no sense.
Samuel and Jerry are blind to the disconnected thought process.
Just trying to connect the SDA dots, if possible.
So, without the body there is no soul?
---micha9344 on 4/15/16


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Says who Micha? On what authority do you base that assertion?
---Leon on 4/15/16


Without the body there is no soul?
---micha9344 on 4/15/16


Who or what are the "souls under the altar" in Revelation, Samuel?

They are conscious and pleading for justice--and this is BEFORE the Parousia, so the people are obviously still dead as regards their bodies.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/16


Micha you have misunderstood my words.

Humans can kill our body but not the soul. Because they cannot kill the spirit. The Spirit returns to GOD until the resurrection.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

In Revelation 20:6,14 there is the second death. Where body and Spirit together are destroyed.

Which only GOD can do and says He will do as you pointed out in the verse you gave.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/14/16


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/The soul is not existing while our bodies are dead.\-Samuelbb7 on 4/14/16
So, when the body is destroyed the soul ceases to exist?
In other words, when man destroys the body, he destroys the soul.
Do you not see the blindness because of applying your doctrine to scripture rather than scripture dictating your doctrine?
---micha9344 on 4/14/16


Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Revelation 20:5,6
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The soul is not existing while our bodies are dead. Our Spirit who we are is with GOD. In the resurrection our spirit and body are recombined to make our soul. We either come up in first resurrection to live or the second to death.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/14/16


//
What happens to the soul when man destroys the body?

---micha9344 on 4/13/16
//


Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Job 14:12-15 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.


---jerry6593 on 4/14/16


\\Man cannot destroy the body?
---micha9344 on 4/12/\\

Ever hear of cremation, micha?

Ever hear of those residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki whose bodies were vaporized by the atomic bombs?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/13/16


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What happens to the soul when man destroys the body?
---micha9344 on 4/13/16


Michael: "This is the blindness I posted about.
Man cannot destroy the body?"

You are not helping your case any. Man does indeed destroy other men's bodies. Look what Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Muslims have done. Do you even think about the things you post?



---jerry6593 on 4/13/16


This is the blindness I posted about.
Man cannot destroy the body?
---micha9344 on 4/12/16


Michael: The SDA doctrine comports perfectly with Scripture. Both the soul and the body are destroyed in the lake of fire. Your belief in the immortal spirit of man in death is nothing but warmed-over spiritualism.



---jerry6593 on 4/12/16


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The doctrine is called conditionalism and many Christians follow it since we follow Jesus.

The verse you quote shows our doctrine is correct.

You claim the soul is immortal. But God is going to destroy it.
All the dead will be resurrected. Or do you deny the resurrection?

By the way conditionalism was taught before E.G.White was born so you are making a false accusation.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/11/16


/At death God's spirit (breath) returns to Him and our body decays, but our souls (the combination of the two) ceases to exist until the resurrection at Christ's return (the last day) - a new creation.\-jerry6593 on 4/11/
-So says EGW and her followers.
-But the Bible says:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
-If one doesn't see the difference, maybe a false prophet(ess) has one blinded.
---micha9344 on 4/11/16


According to the Bible, the spirit put into our bodies at conception is God's spirit - not our soul. It is His life force that animates our otherwise dead bodies. Our soul is merely our self - a combination of body and God's animating spirit. At death God's spirit (breath) returns to Him and our body decays, but our souls (the combination of the two) ceases to exist until the resurrection at Christ's return (the last day) - a new creation.



---jerry6593 on 4/11/16


True our Spirit or breath of life come from GOD. But as pointed out Spirit plus body is a soul.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/9/16


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"...The first soul was Fathers creation. "The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and adam became a living soul." Each subsequent soul is a result of that creation, brought forth through the process of childbearing. Which is why the woman was called Eve."
---josef on 4/8/16

Scripture doesn't support Traducianism. Only our body comes through procreation. Our spirit comes from God.

Zechariah 12:1
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens and forms the spirit of man within him
---James_L on 4/9/16


Trav said, "While I don't hold to their beliefs, I'm sure they were proud to be "anathematized" by your "un-holy, un-scripturally Universal, and falsely apostalic" so called church. A blessing for them. May everyone globally be blessed by being kicked out of your cult."

Okay, Trav, have it your own way. I will continue to follow God, and not bow to your opinions
---Monk_Brendan on 4/8/16


"Where was our soul before we were born?" The first soul was Fathers creation. "The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and adam became a living soul." Each subsequent soul is a result of that creation, brought forth through the process of childbearing. Which is why the woman was called Eve.
---josef on 4/8/16


Trav, are YOU saying that you believe in a heretofore for souls and the other heresies listed?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/8/16


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...all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and ...
---Monk_Brendan on 4/7/16

While I don't hold to their beliefs, I'm sure they were proud to be "anathematized" by your "un-holy, un-scripturally Universal, and falsely apostalic" so called church. A blessing for them. May everyone globally be blessed by being kicked out of your cult.

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

(if it were possible)
---Trav on 4/7/16


This is the rankest heresy. As Cluny said, it was condemned by the Fifth Ecumenical Council

It is clearly laid out in the following:

If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their impious writings, as also all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and [if anyone does not equally anathematize] all those who have held and hold or who in their impiety persist in holding to the end the same opinion as those heretics just mentioned: let him be anathema.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/7/16


Well Cluny we agree here. Thanks I didn't know that about Origen.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/7/16


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