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What Is True Worship

What does the word WORSHIP mean?

Let's break it down to two Greek words: LATRIA means to offer worship to God alone.

DOULEIA means to venerate. It is the honor and reverence appropriately due to the excellence of a created person.

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 4/13/16
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Jerry
God made the new covenant with Israel is clear from scripture (Hebrews 8:8, Jer 31:31-33).
Does this new covenant get fulfilled in the church in 2 Cors 3:3-6? Do the (ethnos/nations) saved according to the revelation of the mystery partake of the prophesied covenant in Jeremiah 31?
I think not. ...
---michael_e on 5/1/16

But, they do, understanding the latin word gentile means "ethnos/nations" and is referring to the "ethnos" of Israel. Divorced/put away North House of Ten accept Christ while the southern house of Judah to this day has not...yet.
Eze 37:22...one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
---Trav on 5/2/16


michael e: You don't seem to realize that the God of the OT is the same God as that of the NT - Jesus Christ the Creator and Rock that led the Hebrews in the wilderness. He never changes. The religion of Israel is identical to the Christian religion with the exception that apostate Israel didn't recognize that their Messiah had come. They looked forward to the Messiah by their sacrifices (the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world), whereas we Christians look back at the cross.

Salvation has ever been by faith alone and not by works. But although we are saved by faith, we are judged by our works (adherence to the 10C Law). Sinners will not be saved in their sins.


---Jerry6593 on 5/2/16


Salvation for OT people from Adam, Abel, Seth, Noah, etc
was faith + sacrifice. They couldnt approach God without a sacrifice. In Christs earthly ministry, still under Law, plus repentance and water baptism, + their faith.
We, in the BoC, are saved by faith + nothing when we believe the Gospel for salvation I Cor 15:1-4.
Heb 11:4 "By faith Abel (believed God? No He offered. something) By faith, primarily, but it was faith plus.
Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear (what did he do?) prepared an ark
If Noah had said, I believe a flood is coming, and never built an ark, he would have been lost. But with his faith, he built an ark.
---michael_e on 5/1/16


Michael e,
I'm not sure you understand what "saved" means in scripture

Salvation is an Eschatological reality regardless of Testament
---James_L on 5/1/16


Jerry
//The Law written on your heart as the certification of the New Covenant?//
God made the new covenant with Israel is clear from scripture (Hebrews 8:8, Jer 31:31-33).
Does this new covenant get fulfilled in the church in 2 Cors 3:3-6? Do the Gentiles saved according to the revelation of the mystery partake of the prophesied covenant in Jeremiah 31?
I think not.
2 Cor 3 is used wrongly to place the church under Israels new covenant, but when we look closer it becomes apparent that the details are different, and this passage should not be confused with a fulfillment of the new covenant.
---michael_e on 5/1/16




The mystery of Christ explains how all men at all times can only be saved by grace through faith, not of works. However, only in this dispensation grace stands alone without required works. This is because of the substitution of Christs work applied to you.
Though Old Testament saints were never saved by their works, they had no knowledge of the mystery of Christ. They could not put their faith in something that was a secret. Their faith was in the testament. The testament required obedience to works.
Israels salvation is yet in the future as it is there that the testament will be fulfilled. Rom 11:26-27
---michael_e on 5/1/16


Or else you become a victim of satan, and end up in hell"
---Monk

Have you not been forever perfected by the blood of Christ?


"Dead means just that, that faith without works is not alive, there is no faith!"
---Monk

???
How is it called faith, if there is no faith?


"You insult Scripture, and not me when you say these things"
---Monk

ok?
I don't understand how that's supposed to be applicable to my statement
---James_L on 5/1/16


michael e: "True under Law, but we are not under Law."

But what Law are you not under? The Law written on your heart as the certification of the New Covenant?


---Jerry6593 on 5/1/16


Wrong Michael unless you believe David worked his way to heaven as well as the entire Old Testament. Also you ignore so much of the New Testament.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Romans 7:14, 14:10
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)
---Samuelbb7 on 4/30/16


Monk said
//You have to have BOTH works and faith. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith are useless//
True under Law, but we are not under Law.
Until the revelation of the mystery, the substance of faith always included Gods involvement with the nation Israel, its promised kingdom, and its associated covenants.
It was not until Paul that salvation was offered by grace through faith alone apart from any special nation, kingdom requirements, or covenant stipulations (Romans 4:5, Eph 2:8-9, Romans 11:6, Eph 2:12).
---michael_e on 4/30/16




James said, ""You have to have BOTH works and faith."
---Monk Brendan

Or else ??"


Or else you become a victim of satan, and end up in hell

"Faith without works is dead."
---Monk

Wat does "dead" mean?"


Dead means just that, that faith without works is not alive, there is no faith!

"Works without faith are useless."
---Monk

Depending on the context, works might be useless even with faith"


You insult Scripture, and not me when you say these things
---Monk_Brendan on 4/30/16


Good point aservent. Works show our faith.

Yes Monk Bredan. If faith is not present the works mean nothing. A point brought out in Matthew 25 where men claim to speak for GOD. But don't help others are labeled as goats and lost.

Nicole. Yes GOD wants true worship. Which is why we should listen to the Apostles above all the words of men.

what are We are saved from: living in sin.

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/30/16


"You have to have BOTH works and faith."
---Monk Brendan

Or else ??


"Faith without works is dead."
---Monk

Wat does "dead" mean?


"Works without faith are useless."
---Monk

Depending on the context, works might be useless even with faith
---James_L on 4/30/16


Aservant said, "Nothing a man does results in salvation - it is God's gift."Works PROVE faith. Works is the canvas that displays faith. How else can one's faith be seen by others?"

But do we do works only to be seen by others? Jesus had something to say about that:

"But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi."
(Matt 25:5-7)

You have to have BOTH works and faith. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith are useless.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/29/16


True Worship is Worship commanded by God.

Since He made us he knows how we are to Worship Him.

God groomed the Jewish people in perfect Worship that only Jesus fulfilled.

Jesus continues that worship in His Church, His Way, His Pleasure.

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/29/16


Oh? then why does James say, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/28/16


Nothing a man does results in salvation - it is God's gift.

Works PROVE faith. Works is the canvas that displays faith. How else can one's faith be seen by others?
---aservant on 4/29/16


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And the most condemnation falls upon those who have read James 2:18, and do not follow it, or judge harshly those that do.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/28/16

You apparently haven't read 3:1
Don't many aspire to be teachers, knowing we shall receive a stricter judgment


BTW, in 2:14 the question must be asked...save him from what?
---James_L on 4/29/16


Faith works. If it doesn't work then it is a false faith.

True faith loves everyone. Even enemies.

When we were to help others. That is just putting our love in action.

By the way seventh day Adventist are accused of trying to work our way to heaven.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/28/16


Samuel BB said, "We are saints by the grace of GOD alone. Our works earn no merit towards salvation. To live for Jesus is what we are supposed to be doing."

Oh? then why does James say, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled, notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?" (James 2:14-18 KJV)

Or James 2:17 or James 2:20? And the most condemnation falls upon those who have read James 2:18, and do not follow it, or judge harshly those that do.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/28/16


It is worship led and inspired by the Spirit of God that resides in each real Christian.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
---aservant on 4/27/16


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Many saints including some today have died heroic deaths and others like Mother Teresea have lived heroic lives in service to Jesus.

We are saints by the grace of GOD alone. Our works earn no merit towards salvation. To live for Jesus is what we are supposed to be doing.

Glory to GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/26/16


Monk said
//Would you not call this heroic?//
I am saying it doesn't take a heroic act to become a saint.
---michael_e on 4/26/16


Michael E. said, "My young friend, 65 is not that old, I already thanked you for Heb, 11. But it doesn't say anything about doing anything heroic in order to be called a saint.
A saint is a believer."


Heb 11:36-37 (KJV) And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented,

Would you not call this heroic?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/25/16


As saints of God we are pressing on toward an incorruptible crown (1 Cor 9:24-25).Our speech needs to be plain, our doctrine clear, continuous study, with flawless execution.
Praise and worship is not just singing and dancing, just as the Super Bowl is not the half time concert.
Real praise and worship to God is the love for Gods word and right doctrine.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15
---michael_e on 4/24/16


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Really because we worship GOD the father, GOD the son and the Holy Spirit.

To worship Jesus is to worship the Father.

It is called the Trinity.

Rom 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

1John 2:1

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/16


\\So if we want to go back to the original church we should only pray to the Father and worship Him alone.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/16\\

Really?

The Protomartyr Stephen prayed to Jesus with his last breath. "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/23/16


Yes Cluny I am quite aware of words gaining new meaning.

But we are discussing the meaning from about 2000 years ago. So today I would agree with you Douela is used to mean venerate.

But 2,000 years ago it mean slave. So the new meaning had to be give to the old word sometime latter in church history.

The Early Christian were Jews. They would not use images in worship.

Jesus said we are to pray to our Father. The greek word is proseuchomai. It is used only about praying to GOD. So again we are going by the original instead of the more modern meaning of asking.

So if we want to go back to the original church we should only pray to the Father and worship Him alone.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/16


Of COURSE, "venerate" comes from a Latin root. I never said it didn't.

But in an Orthodox context, VENERATE is used as the English equivalent for DOULEIA.

Words frequently gain new meanings. Didn't you know that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/21/16


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Well Cluny I did as you asked. I found where the word is used to mean veneration. But the root word for veneration is not Douleia. But Venerari.

No where did they explain how douleia which is about slavery became the different word Venerate. They just stated it was so.

The international Encyclopedia stated that venerate used to also mean worship. But that it's use has changed.

But no mention of how slavery came to mean to honor.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/16


\\You are right Cluny I didn't check Orthodox scholars.

So explain to me why they oppose what all other scholars say?\\

Please search "DOULEIA + Orthodoxy."

FWIW, Jean Chauvin was the FIRST to deny the distinction between DOULEIA and LATREIA. That's rather late, especially for a language not one's own.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/21/16


//If Hebrews 11 is not showing how people lived heroic lives for Christ, human language has no meaning.//
My young friend, 65 is not that old, I already thanked you for Heb, 11. But it doesn't say anything about doing anything heroic in order to be called a saint.
A saint is a believer.
---michael_e on 4/20/16


\\"And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ."
My young friend said "See Hebrews 11."\\

If Hebrews 11 is not showing how people lived heroic lives for Christ, human language has no meaning.

And I'm 65 and have been a Christian for over 50 years.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/20/16


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Cluny said, "Whatever things mahometans may do, worshipping the Pope with LATREIA is not one of them."

I would have used the term Muslims, but otherwise, thank you!

From this it must be shown that--knowing the Muslims don't worship the Pope (they barely respect him)--there are ways to show respect without it being Latria.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/20/16


Monk this is the post I inquired about,
You said
"And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ."
My young friend said "See Hebrews 11."
And then added "And just WHEN did Monk Brendan say that on this blog, Michael?
Please give the date"
I did.
The question still remains
Do you have any biblical facts for this statement??
---michael_e on 4/20/16


We must always be aware of THE GOAL (eternal life when we "DRAW NEAR" to God with a "faith for faith").

Rom 1:17 the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith".

Isaiah 29:13 "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their LIPS

Heb 10:22 let us draw near.... with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.


Jas 4:8 Draw near to God and he will draw near to you.
---faithforfaith on 4/20/16


The girl kissing the pope's hands and feet that Rob and others mentioned was in fact a mahometan.

Whatever things mahometans may do, worshipping the Pope with LATREIA is not one of them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/20/16


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You are right Cluny I didn't check Orthodox scholars.

So explain to me why they oppose what all other scholars say?

How can one saying it means slave and the other saying it is to honor others can be reconciled?

In the slavery side they point to the root word in greek which is slave. The RCC just stated it wasn't so and gave no reason. You know Orthodox scholars better then I. What basis do they give for it not meaning slavery?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/16


Michael E said, "
For my young friend
// And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ.

More on part 2.

---Monk_Brendan on 4/17/16 //"


Micheal, Part 2 was moderated, which happens to a lot of my posts which try to point out correct belief (from the Bible--Scriptures included).

As I am not a moderator, nor have I been offered the position, I can't do anything about it.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/19/16


\\I can find no where in non RCC scholars who say Douleia is anything but referring to slavery.\\

Have you checked Orthodox scholars, Samuel?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/19/16


For my young friend
// And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ.

More on part 2.

---Monk_Brendan on 4/17/16 //
---michael_e on 4/19/16


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Luke said, "He gave the correct Scripture, but said it changed."

I did not say Scripture had changed. I said the rules in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches had changed, because at one time, with a married bishop, there were disputes about who got all the property, altar ware, etc. from the church. So the rules were changed to prevent that from happening.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/18/16


\\//And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ.//
Monk, this is your own erroneous statement, so you are hijacking your own blog\\

And just WHEN did Monk Brendan say that on this blog, Michael?

Please give the date.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/18/16


//And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ.//
Monk, this is your own erroneous statement, so you are hijacking your own blog
---michael_e on 4/18/16


DOULEIA From the New American Standard Greek Dictionary means slave. The word is from being a slave. So those Greek Scholars also agree with the Definition by Strong's.

I can find no where in non RCC scholars who say Douleia is anything but referring to slavery.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/18/16


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Samuel BB said, "Seems like all are called to be saint."

And we are! We are all called to work as hard as we can to live up to the perfection of Jesus. True, not many of us come very close to that, but that is what we are called to do.

Please let's stick to one topic, and not hijack THIS blog to talk on another subject. If you want to talk about Purgatory, start a blog about it. I will join you there.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/18/16


My young friend, thanks for the scripture, especially 11:6. making all believers saints.
No one ever called me saint, except my Bible.
I suspect that's because the religious sects using the title restrict it ones, THEY BELIEVE, performed heroic religious service.
This doesn't fit the Bibles definition.
To understand our position we must ignore tradition and let the Bible define its own terms.
In the Bible if you are not a sinner dead in sins, you are a saint. You became a saint of God when you trusted the gospel of Christ, irregardless of religious works.
Christ dealt with your sins. You're not in Adam, but in Christ. The Bible calls us saints of God by the grace of God, not by our works... (Eph 2:8-9).
---michael_e on 4/18/16


Luke, this is EXACTLY what Hebrews 11 is describing.

To whoever: The Greek lexicon in the back of Strong's does not exhaust the many meanings of DOULEIA in Greek.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/18/16


Cluny, where are your facts? you say Hebrews 11, and nowhere in Hebrews does it say:
"**//And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ//"

What you believe in is another topic made up by the RCC. Rewarding some individuals for something they did out of their own works. But what they forget is that the good we do as individuals is because of Christ who lives in us, He gets the glory and honor not the individual. All individuals are sinners, without Christ they can do nothing.
---Luke on 4/18/16


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**//And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ//
Do you have any biblical facts for this statement?
---michael_e on 4/17/16**

See Hebrews 11.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/18/16


Well the Bible says Douleia means slaves. I posted how not just Strongs says this.

But let us see who the Bible says are Saints.

1Corithians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Seems like all are called to be saint.

In the RCC doesn't the works saints did help get people out of Purgatory?

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/18/16


//And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ//
Do you have any biblical facts for this statement?
---michael_e on 4/17/16


Real praise and worship to God is the love for Gods word and right doctrine.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15
---michael_e on 4/17/16


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Leon, on the news channel that I watched, before the girl, there was a grown man on his knees before the pope, kissing the pope's hand.

On another blog topic, I asked Monk Brendan what is the Scripture criteria a person must meet to be Bishop/Elder? He gave the correct Scripture, but said it changed. The question I have is who changed it, and a perfect example of Catholics doing what is written in Romans 1: 24-25.

I personally believe the popes are of an Apostle succession, but they are not the Apostles of Christ, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15!
---Rob on 4/17/16


Monk, you say:
"The last time you gave someone a birthday party, and put candles on the cake, were you worshiping him? NO!"

Monk, lighting candles at a birthday party is not worshipping the individual. No one gets on their knees and ask for a miracle. All you are doing is trying to find an excuse. A lot of Catholic Latino's have small shrines in their houses. All that I know worship the saints they have as shrines.
And the Bible calls all born of the Spirit saints. And those dead do not answer prayers of individuals. Only Christ answers prayers. And only to those born of the Spirit. Next time you get on your knees to worship one of the saints just remember what you are doing to Christ. You should be ashamed.
---Luke on 4/18/16


I found that a number of words are used for worship in the Bible. latreu & #333, is used and it is for worship towards God. Along with proskyne & #333, and Doxa.

There is also ethelothr & #275,skia which called a false type of worship.

DOULEIA From the New American Standard Greek Dictionary means slave. The word is from being a slave. So those Greek Scholars also agree with the Definition by Strong's.


Wikipedia speaks on this word meaning slavery. In fact the only ones who disagree are Roman Catholic writers. Speaking on how they use the word today.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/16


Luke said, "Lighting candles to a saint, then getting on your knees, then asking for a miracle, or help from a saint who is dead is worshipping the dead or worshipping the saint no matter what you call it.

The last time you gave someone a birthday party, and put candles on the cake, were you worshiping him? NO!

The saints in heaven are not dead. True, the physical body has died, but both Catholic and Orthodox believe that the person's soul is not dead, but immortal. And a saint is a person that lived a heroic life for Christ.

More on part 2.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/17/16


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I saw the same thing on TV Rob & I agree, that was bonafide worship. By the way, that was a child (little girl).

Scripture says church leaders should be shown respect (love) due to the ministerial responsibility they perform in feeding of their flocks & for pastors faithful covering their church-goers in prayer, & the many other sacrifices pastors make on behalf of their congregations. But, "reverance" (worship) belongs to God alone! We should never worship man (the creature). We should worship God, the Creator & Him alone!!! CREATURE WORSHIP is at the root of much trouble, confusion & doctrinal heresies (even blaphemies) within church congregations whether they be RCC, EOC or Protestant...
---Leon on 4/17/16


\\The pope was in Syria.\\

No. He was on the island of Lesbos in Greece.

||If that is not worshipping the pope, what is it?||

When a gentleman kisses a lady's hand in polite society, is he worshipping her?

When a British official, usually a judge, is addressed as "Your Worship," is that LATREIA?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/17/16


Is it just me, or does it seem strange that people who talk about worshipping, honoring and venerating God also teach disobedience to His Commandments? I never felt honored by my children's disobedience.



---jerry6593 on 4/17/16


Monk, it is not a personal attack. And I was speaking about what you call worship. And if you do not see the worship Catholics make to the saints, then you must be personally blind because it is happening and you do not see it happening.
Every time someone says you worship saints, some of you do not call it worship. Lighting candles to a saint, then getting on your knees, then asking for a miracle, or help from a saint who is dead is worshipping the dead or worshipping the saint no matter what you call it. You might be a great individual, go to church every Sunday, and be a monk, but what you call veneration is worship.
The very same thing Israel did over and over.
---Luke on 4/17/16


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Today I was watching the news.

The pope was in Syria. People were bowing down to the pope and kissing the pope's hand.

One man even got down on both knees in front of the pope, kissed the pope's hand, and said "father bless me."

If that is not worshipping the pope, what is it?
---Rob on 4/16/16


Micha9334 said, "
Umm, Monk Brendan,
Could you reread your previous post?
Or am I missing something?"


Yes, I caught that. And I already said I was wrong.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/16/16


The limited Greek lexicon in the back of Strong's does NOT exhaust the meaning of DOULEIA or other Greek words.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/15/16


I have heard these words before. But had not heard they are from the Bible. So I will use my Greek dictionary to look them up.

Thank you.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/15/16


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Umm, Monk Brendan,
Could you reread your previous post?
Or am I missing something?
---micha9344 on 4/15/16


To me Worship comes from the deepest love of God in our hearts and is an act of the Spirit.
---Darlene_1 on 4/15/16


Micha9344 said, "-The Bible does not equate DOULEIA with VENERATE."

Then I said, "Micha, please pay attention to what I am writing."

Please forgive me, Micha, I did not pay attention to what you wrote. Mea Culpa!

However, if you are looking at Strong's Exhaustive... then what they say DOULEIA means is slavery, and that is wrong. Again, I don't understand Greek myself, but my monastic superior (Fr. Basil) does, and he says that DOULEIA, while it might be based on a Greek word for slavery does not mean slavery. It means to honor, to give honor to whom it is due.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/15/16


Luke said, "Monk, you must be spiritually blind."

Why the personal attack? Did I attack you on this blog?

Now start again. Say what is on your mind, clearly and simply. Then allow me to respond. That is how proper debate is done. That is how one Christian treats another, and how a Christian is supposed to talk to a sinner. And let's keep it on one topic at a time.

If you want to pick a topic, then start a new blog, and state your opinion, and then wait for me to express mine.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/15/16


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Religious people & there great swelling, vain, empty & gospeless words. Lord Jesus, deliver us from such waterless clouds. smh
---Leon on 4/15/16


Micha9344 said, "-The Bible does not equate DOULEIA with VENERATE."

Nor did I.

If you read my original question, then you can see that I did not equate the two. I said, "LATRIA means to offer worship to God alone.DOULEIA means to venerate. It is the honor and reverence appropriately due to the excellence of a created person."

Micha, please pay attention to what I am writing.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/15/16


Gal 4:8-9 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service (DOULEIA) unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage (DOULEIA)?
Eph 6:7 With good will doing service (DOULEIA), as to the Lord, and not to men:
Mat 6:24 No man can serve (DOULEIA) two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve (DOULEIA) God and mammon.
-DOULEIA: serve, obey, submit to.
-VENERATE: respect, revere, exalt, worship.
-The Bible does not equate DOULEIA with VENERATE.
---micha9344 on 4/15/16


When you read the NT in Greek, especially the Gospels, you will see a distinction between DOULEIA, PROSKYNESIS, and LATREIA made by the Savior Himself.

If the Lord did so, then so must we.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/16


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Monk, you must be spiritually blind. I have attended many Catholic churches and many shrines of what you call saints, and in all of them people light candles, get on their knees, and ask the saints for a miracle or for help with a problem they are having. During the war in Vietnam, many ask the saints to bring their son home safe.
I have see this in many shrines. I use to believe in the same garbage you believe in, and I use to say the same thing you say, that it is not worship. But it is worship.
Jesus takes a back seat to those saints.
Second, the Bible tells us that every individual who is saved is a saint. So you got it all wrong. But of course you do not see those things, I didn't either until God opened my eyes to the truth.
---Luke on 4/15/16


Faith, I think you missed my point.

There are many Protestants on these blogs that seem to feel that Catholics worship (latria--worship due to God alone) the saints, including Mary. Catholics and Orthodox are both forbidden to do so, and if they do, it is in spite of the teaching of the Church.

We do venerate (douleia--honor to whom honor is due) the saints as heroes. They are due some honor. But we do not worship them.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/14/16


Satan has dramatized many words and concepts of human emotions in order to mislead us about how to HONOR the creator (all we really need do is remember Him respectfully).

Do not DISrespect or make light of Him.

In Acts 17, it says "as if He needed anything".


God doesn't need glorification. Think about how condescending we've learned to be.
---faithforfaith on 4/14/16


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