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Who Is The Original Church

Can anyone prove with strict evidentiary documentation that the Catholic, Orthodox, and the other pre-Reformation Churches are NOT the original Church that Jesus founded when he said to Peter, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church..."

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 4/15/16
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Trav said, "I would if there wasn't a catholic and orthodox wolf pups circling. Teach? Laughing out loud. These pups b-flat man made latin doctrines inspire to post/point out enough scripture to reveal yourselves.
This one eats fat boys."


If I am a wolf pup, then what are you?

The biggest wolf is inside the flock, laughing at the countless honest sheep, and planning a banquet. And that is you!

And what do your words about size mean? Are you not fat and happy, singing songs to the Lord that He will not listen to?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/28/16


\\In other words, clooney, you don't believe that words have meanings.\\

Oh, I do.

I just don't believe YOUR meanings. Any beginning Greek student--or native Greek speaker--can tell you that PETROS and PETRA are different cases of the same word.

And since you're being substantive instead of psychobbling, I'm discussing things with you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/28/16


cluny: "PETROS and PETRA are different cases of the same word. They don't mean different things."

In other words, clooney, you don't believe that words have meanings.

Do you orthos also believe that Peter was the first pope?

BTW, I thought I was dead to you. What happened?



---jerry6593 on 4/28/16


\\BTW, I consider myself Catholic in that I believe in the universal church of Christ. I also am Baptist as I believe in baptism by full immersion, etc. e\\

In other words, jeery, you don't believe that words have meanings.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/27/16


Trav said, "You are a believer...in a falsehood and can't see it. go away...

Why don't you? I am trying to teach basic B-flat Christianity.
You eat the fleas, but strain out the cows
---Monk_Brendan on 4/26/16

I would if there wasn't a catholic and orthodox wolf pups circling. Teach? Laughing out loud. These pups b-flat man made latin doctrines inspire to post/point out enough scripture to reveal yourselves.
This one eats fat boys.
Zec 11:16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
---Trav on 4/27/16




\\ Brendan: I'm sure you'll agree that it is unwise to found a Bible doctrine on a single verse.\\

Like the SDA does trying to prove souls die with the body?

PETROS and PETRA are different cases of the same word. They don't mean different things.

Most case forms of English nouns, except for singular, plural and their possessives, have disappeared.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/27/16


Brendan: I'm sure you'll agree that it is unwise to found a Bible doctrine on a single verse. The verse you quote to make Peter the first pope translates from Greek as "You are Petros (piece of rock), and upon this Petra (massive rock) I will build my church." It would seem logical that Jesus was pointing to Himself as the ROCK upon which the church was built.

BTW, I consider myself Catholic in that I believe in the universal church of Christ. I also am Baptist as I believe in baptism by full immersion, etc. etc.


---jerry6593 on 4/27/16


Trav the selling of positions was from the Middle ages not from the foundation of the church. It was a major fund raising technique. But not except for a part of the history of the church.

Exaggeration does not help prove anything.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/26/16


Trav said, "All prophets, Apostles, Christ don't witness, authorize, testify your "Ekklesia". Witness is not for you, is against you."

Okay Trav, I am going to ask a simple question, and I want a straight answer.

You are always talking about how Prophets "Witness."

The Prophets prophesied, and they did prophesy about the Church, the Gospel writers told about the Church, Jesus talked about the Church, and a lot of the NT talks about the Church. What type of witness do you need?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/26/16


Trav said, "You are a believer...in a falsehood and can't see it. Among the trees,unable to see the forest.Why not just go away?"

Why don't you? I am trying to teach basic B-flat Christianity. Not Roman Catholicism, or Calvinism, or Lutheranism, or anything except what Christ gave to the world. But you don't seem to understand it! You eat the fleas, but strain out the cows
---Monk_Brendan on 4/26/16




\\Your church from the beginning sold its positions for money.\\

Liar.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/26/16


Can anyone prove with strict evidentiary documentation that the Catholic, Orthodox, ...are NOT the original Church ...
---Monk_Brendan on 4/15/16

All prophets, Apostles, Christ don't witness, authorize, testify your "Ekklesia". Witness is not for you, is against you.
Ekklesia means a calling out or assembly/synagogue.
Who was Christ calling/assembling?
None lost that you care to mention or claim.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Eze_20:41... I bring you out from the people,gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered, I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.
---Trav on 4/26/16


We should do what the Lord Jesus Christ instructs us to do, but only when he is speaking to the church, the Body of Christ. He speaks to the church through the apostle Paul.
People will not change their mind unless they see the problem in their thinking and are aware of a better perspective.
We should do what Jesus instructs us to do when he is talking to the church, not Israel.
---michael_e on 4/26/16


But I have been trying to inform you (and anyone else that cares to listen) of the truth,...Churches
---Monk_Brendan on 4/23/16

Problem is you have no witnesses from scripture. Your church from the beginning sold its positions for money. Gave false authority to positions, priest's and papa's/pope. All for $$$ and power.
You are a believer...in a falsehood and can't see it. Among the trees,unable to see the forest. Why not just go away? We will never "yoke" with you being unequal by your standards an ours. Obviously you crave something here, truth/light you've never heard/seen.
Eze_37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 4/26/16


Kathr said, "The truth is, you only put down, like a robot what you have been taught, and continue with your robotic behavior showing you only know words, without meaning"

And you don't? Your robotic behavior is such that any time you see "Catholic" you hiss, just like the Jews do when "Haman" is said in the reading of Esther.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/25/16


Ephesians 2:11-13. must be read and meditated very carefully. God never made a covenant with a Gentile Nation...ever. The only Covenant with "A Nation" was with Israel. The Old Covenant with the Nation Israel was based upon obedience of the Law, bringing earthly blessings for that obedience. So Gentiles WERE excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, unless they joined Israel, as did Ruth. The Old Covenant was also NOT made WITH the blood of Jesus Christ, only the New Covenant, AND THE EVERLASTING COVENANT IS. The EVERLASTING COVENANT, revealed to Abrahan has ALWAYS PROMISED salvation to all families of the earth. Galatians clearly state ...for the promise to Abraham 400 years BEFORE Israel became a Nation were never annulled.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/16


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Kathr, I never said anything was hidden. Paul is the one who said the Gentiles were without hope and without God in the world. God never hid the fact that Gentiles who were willing to obey Him could join with Israel. No Gentile who wanted to learn about God had to be without Him in the world.
---barb on 4/25/16


Barb, that Gentiles would be saved was never hidden, as Paul shows in Galatians, and as God also said to Abraham, in thee will all families of the earth be blessed.

Michael_e, read below. The GLORY that is to follow is to the BOC. Paul said those who suffer with Him will be GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH HIM...that is to the BOC only. 1peter 4 elaborate more on the mystery of the fellowship.


1 Peter 1:10-11

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/16


Michael_e, your posts of scripture are not answering any of the verses put before you to pray about.

The truth is, you only put down, like a robot what you have been taught, and continue with your robotic behavior showing you only know words, without meaning. It took Paul 14 years to completely understand the mystery, yet we also find Paul saying he would preach nothing unless it was WROUGHT IN him first. Look up the definition of WROUGHT. Paul,also learned these truths through SUFFERING. " That I may KNOW HIM, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, BEING MADE CONFORMABLE TO HIS DEATH. He spoke that not out of doctrine, but PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. He lived the MYSTERY and then preached it.
---kathr453 on 4/24/16


Were Gentiles ever alienated from God or without hope? Exodus 12:48-51 "And when a stranger shall sojourn with you, and keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised and then let him come near and keep it and he Shall be as One that is Born in the land". Also see Lev 19:33-34, and Numbers 15:29-30.

Did Jesus keep any doctrine of salvation secret from His disciples? "Henceforth I call you not servants, for the servant does not know what his lord does, but I have called you friends for all things I have heard of my Father, I have made known unto you." John 15:15-27. I can't believe Jesus sent His disciples out to teach and preach without giving them all the knowledge they needed to do so.
---barb on 4/24/16


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Paul was chosen to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery. (Rom 16:25)
This secret, concerning the risen Lord is in contradistinction to the information the twelve disciples were preaching.
Peter in Jerusalem after Pentecost preached Christ according to prophecy (Acts 3:21).
Paul taught things kept secret from the prophets.
It was kept secret from the prophets that Gentile salvation would occur through Israels fall (Rom 11:25). Also kept secret was the new body of believers created separate from the elect nation of Israel (Eph The gospel Christ gave to Paul is missing from Matthew-Acts, and so is called a mystery gospel (Rom 16:25,1 Cor 15:1-10, Eph 6:19)
---michael_e on 4/24/16


///...Paul spent 14 years on a mountain learning by revelation the deeper things of the Mystery...---kathr4453 on 4/24/16///

Yes Kat. As an aside, when you mentioned "mountain", it occurred to me that Noah's Ark rested safely upon a mountain. Lot & daughters found safety on a mountain. Moses met the Lord up on a mountain & received God's instructions to safely deliver the children of Israel into the promised land. Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount & often went up into the mountain to pray & commune with the Father. The "Upper" Room was mounted above ground. :) And, Paul sought God's instructions on high ground, though he continually suffered opposition from low down people.
---Leon on 4/24/16


Samuel I agree with theses scriptures, so what am I rejecting?
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:11-13 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands,
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
---michael_e on 4/24/16


I see Michael why you must reject parts of the Bible. May GOD open your eyes to the truth of the Word of GOD.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:11-13

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands,

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/16


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Actually, most people who dislike Paul do so because he misrepresents Jesus. Paul never met Jesus and he tells us he learned nothing from any man which would include the 12 apostles, therefore what he did learn came from a spirit in the desert claiming to be god.

Jesus came to set up a kingdom. The word church means set apart, holy, sanctified. Jesus is the rock just as Peter stated that He was "thou are the Son, the living God", and Jesus answered him "flesh and blood has not revealed it to you but my Father which is in Heaven." These are the words of truth spoken by Peter that Jesus' church/kingdom is built upon.
---barb on 4/24/16


I really believe it's because of ultra dispensationalists that so many hate Paul. Why, because they have misrepresented Paul and his ministry.

Jesus Foretold in the Gospels, Upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH, not "A CHURCH". Jesus also foretold through His prayer in John 17....I IN THEM AND THOU IN ME THAT WE MAY BE ONE. This is Colossians 3, again part of the MYSTERY. Only the CHURCH is hidden with God IN CHRIST. To claim that Paul was teaching something NEVER HEARD OF BEFOREHAND, is a lie. Jesus also foretold of His death and resurrection.

And Paul spent 14 years on a mountain learning by revelation the deeper things of the Mystery, yet began preaching the Gospel days after he was struck down.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/16


It was 3-4 years after I was saved that I grasp the understanding that I was a New Creature IN CHRIST. But that revelation came through incredible SUFFERINGS. Head knowledge Is one thing, personal experience is quite another. It was 1 Peter 4 and James 1 that sustained me through that suffering, along with several scriptures in Hebrews, and Phil 3. You can't experience the SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, unless you are IN CHRIST. So YES, Peter and James understood and taught the MYSTERY. One has to actually be IN CHRIST to know that.
---kathr453 on 4/24/16


Both entities point to Christ for fulfillment they must be separated or we have identity confusion. We are either Israel (Jew or Gentile) or we are the Church the boC (neither Jew or Gentile)
---michael_e on 4/23/16

Israel is not Jew OR Gentile. In the Kingdom restored to Israel, Gentiles will be in subjection to Israel. You claim Cornelius became Israel??. And not the BOC? Again you did not read Acts 18-19. If those who were part of Israel were instructed more thoroughly as was Apollos acts 18:23-28.. The same Apollos in 1 Cor 3:5 who now is preaching the same Gospel as Paul, ...tell us Michael_e, what gave Precilla and Aquilla that right to tell him his understanding was incomplete?
---kathr4453 on 4/23/16


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Israel and the Church are the two entities through which Gods will is performed. Israel gives purpose to religion, being the only religion ever ordained by God. Through its covenants this nation of priests shadowed things to come on earth through the Messiah.
The Church here isn't the general congregation throughout history, but that unique one body church which is called the boC. In every aspect, this new creature represents the power of faith. Through faith the gospel of Christ creates all things new manifesting Gods glory in heavenly places.
Both entities point to Christ for fulfillment they must be separated or we have identity confusion. We are either Israel (Jew or Gentile) or we are the Church the boC (neither Jew or Gentile)
---michael_e on 4/23/16


\\Cluny, You mean THESE FATHERS in Acts??? And somehow you equate your Popes to these? ok! No argument from me.
\\

What do you mean by "your Popes"?

Have you not caught on yet that I'm ORTHODOX and not Roman Catholic?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/23/16


Kathr said, " Monk. The only time ranting goes on here is when people don't read and follow a conversation.....ending up taking people out of context. Now if you care to go back TO THE BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION, I did not quote scripture, but EMPHASIZED the part in scripture referring to calling one Father..."

Kathr, I am not trying to make enemies. I have been under attack from almost everybody on these blogs simply because I am Catholic! If I defend myself at all, then I get more hate mail.

But I have been trying to inform you (and anyone else that cares to listen) of the truth, as taught by ALL of the pre-Reformation Churches
---Monk_Brendan on 4/23/16


Peter didn't expound on the nature of the new creature of Christ (2 Cor 5:17), or the riches of Gods grace (Eph 3:8), or the union of the church with Christ, the fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9, Eph 4:3-6, 1 Cor 10:16).


Absolutely wrong Michael _e. The MYSTERY of the FELLOWSHIP is explained in Philippians 3, which is the fellowship OF HIS SUFFERINGS, AND OUR FELLOWSHIP IN THAT SUFFERING. 1st Peter 3 and 4 also preaches this truth that is CHURCH TRUTH ONLY. The so called other church speaks nothing about the Mystery of the fellowship of His sufferings and HOW it works in US that comes only through the NEW BIRTH. New Birth and New Creature are the same thing. We are a New Creature because of our NEW BIRTH.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/16


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Brendan: According to the Bible, the "church" is the collective aggregate of ALL followers of Christ (Immanuel -God with us). Then logically the "church" began in Eden when Adam and Eve walked and talked with Jesus. God has had a people who love and follow Him since that time until now. This "church" is not defined by denominational boundaries, because Jesus has His flock in many fields.

Salvation is not determined by denomination, but by the grace of God, and God is no respecter of persons.


---jerry6593 on 4/23/16


Peter didn't expound on the nature of the new creature of Christ (2 Cor 5:17), or the riches of Gods grace (Eph 3:8), or the union of the church with Christ, the fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9, Eph 4:3-6, 1 Cor 10:16).
He spoke things foretold by the prophets about Christ, the kingdom, and salvation (Acts 3:24, 4:12).
The church the boC operates according to the mystery of Christ (Eph 5:32, 1 Cor 2:7, Rom 16:25).
Filled with the Spirit, the disciples in Acts 2 sold all their possessions (Acts 2:44-45), continued in the temple (Acts 3:1), ministered to Israel only (Acts 2:22, 3:12), preached prophecy (Acts 3:18-22),
Their ministry was a continuation of what had been preached before (Acts 1:22).
---michael_e on 4/23/16


Monk. The only time ranting goes on here is when people don't read and follow a conversation.....ending up taking people out of context. Now if you care to go back TO THE BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION, I did not quote scripture, but EMPHASIZED the part in scripture referring to calling one Father.....that thank you, you so nicely put the whole verse completing the verse " call no one ON EARTH""

Now tell me Monk, where in that verse gives you all permission to actually do the very opposite of what Jesus said? Why do you suppose He said it in the first place? and WHAT " in context " has changed?
---kathr4453 on 4/23/16


Michael_e....there are a couple things here you have stated with no scripture to back it up. You said the Church began in Jerusalem....scripture please. And exactly how did THAT church begin?

Second, you claim the Mystery was kept secret and didn't begin until God revealed it to Paul, yet Paul makes no such claim that the Church began at Paul's revelation.

A careful reading of Acts 18 and 19 show there was only ONE church where many who were misinformed were instructed in the Lord more perfectly......not stolen from the OTHER CHURCH and placed in a new one. John the Baptist didn't even baptize with the Holy Spirit as stated in Acts 19.
---kathr453 on 4/23/16


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Michael_e, here is something to think about. In the Gospels, Jesus FORTOLD of the CHURCH...Upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH. The details of this was not revealed until after Jesus rose from the dead. Now the Apostles asked Jesus before He ascended..." Are you at this time going to restore the Kingdom to Israel?" Ans: only the Father knows when. So that cannot possibly be " MY CHURCH" of which we see Peter was to be a part of. The CHURCHES are those who belong to the SON, His body, His bride, HIS PRIZED possession..the Kingdom of Israel belong to the Father.

Now too, just because Abel didn't have ALL the facts does not disenfranchise him from salvation.
---kathr4454 on 4/23/16


Kathr said, "Jesus clearly said call no man FATHER, PAPPA, OR ABBA"

Now who is misquoting the Bible?

The verse, in KJV, is And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Pay attention. There is no need to lie or embellish something from Scripture. Rather, say what you want to say, clearly and concisely. If you want to rant, go do it someplace else.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/22/16


Michael_e, there is no reference to the Earthly Kingdon, announced by John the Baptist as a CHURCH. The CHURCH is clearly those baptized into Christ.

There is not two churches. The CHURCH began at Pentecost. Those in the upper room were the first and the 3000 were added to them, and you and I are added to them as well.

Just because they may not have UNDERSTOOD all involved doesn't mean they weren't part of the CHURCH. Even those saved TODAY may not understand completely that the Church is separate from Israel, as we see so often. That doesn't mean they are omitted.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/16


The church began when God revealed it.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
The origin of the churchs ministry can not be found in the wilderness with Moses, in Israel with the Messiah, or in Jerusalem at Pentecost.
When God revealed the knowledge of the mystery concerning Christ and His church to Paul, the ministry of the church began, and with it the pattern and origin of the church of today.
Col 1:25-26 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God, Even the mystery
Before Paul the mystery operation of the church was kept secret. It was not possible anyone could minister according to it.
---michael_e on 4/22/16


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///Contrary to what many teach, Acts chapter 2 isn't the beginning of the Christian church. A church was already established in Jerusalem, Acts 2:41 [???!!!] states on the day of Pentecost there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. Acts 2 is an addition to an existing group (Acts 1:15). If there was a beginning of this Pentecostal church it had to start with John the Baptist. [???!!!] ...---michael_eon 4/22/16///

WHAT?!

Michael_e: Please re-read Acts 2 more carefully. The Church of Jesus Christ began in the Upper Room...
---Leon on 4/22/16


Contrary to what many teach, Acts chapter 2 isn't the beginning of the Christian church. A church was already established in Jerusalem, Acts 2:41 states on the day of Pentecost there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. Acts 2 is an addition to an existing group (Acts 1:15).
If there was a beginning of this Pentecostal church it had to start with John the Baptist.
Paul describes a new creature, the church, the BoC (2 Cor 5:17, 1 Cor 12:13). It is this church in which Paul says that he was FIRST to be initiated: (1 Tim 1:16)
Therefore our pattern isn't those believers looking for the end under the New Covenant at Pentecost, but our apostle and model is Paul who tells us what happened after Pentecost.
---michael_e on 4/22/16


Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One, of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Cluny, You mean THESE FATHERS in Acts??? And somehow you equate your Popes to these? ok! No argument from me.

Obviously you can't distinguish the difference between forefathers which can be good or evil, and generational, to the NT understanding of fathers, having nothing to do with generational or a title passed down.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/16


\\ Cluny, Jesus clearly said call no man FATHER, PAPPA, OR ABBA except your Father in Heaven.\\

Without looking at your Bible, can you tell me the next verse? Bet you can't!

\\Not one apostle was ever referred to as Father/Pope, even in endearing conversation. \\

How do you know? Were you present 2000 years ago at such conversations?

\\1st John ranks the saints as Children, young men and fathers, referring to MATURITY IN CHRIST, \\

In other words, you ADMIT that St. John saw Christ's words on this matter as NOT being an absolute prohibition.

If you read ACTS, you will see St. Paul and others addressing Jews in the Synagoguea as "fathers." Did he sin thereby.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/21/16


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Cluny, Jesus clearly said call no man FATHER, PAPPA, OR ABBA except your Father in Heaven. Not one apostle was ever referred to as Father/Pope, even in endearing conversation. 1st John ranks the saints as Children, young men and fathers, referring to MATURITY IN CHRIST, not position over another. And each level is personal between that person and the Lord. Paul said we have many instructors, but not many fathers, meaning MATURE CHRISTIANS, not Popes as in plural or position. Clearly rightly dividing the Word of Truth anyone can see who has eyes to see, that none of the Apostles including Peter ever signed their letter, or began their letters stating they were a Pope/ father. Abraham is also our Father of the faith, but was no Pope either.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/16


ABBA. Isn't that primarily an intimate & reverential term referring to God as Father for born again believers (persons adopted into the family of God)?
---Leon on 4/21/16


\\Everybody here has things wrong. The word "POPE" comes from the Latin Papa, meaning father. It has been used as a term of endearment for centuries.\\

Actually, Greek has it, too.

And it's cognate of the Syro-Aramaic word ABBA.

Ethiopian bishops are generally addressed as "Abba" out of affection and respect.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/21/16


GOD/creator/origin/divinity is generic (God is not proprietary, He has no BRAND name).

Ancient peoples did not assign Him a name or personality/character (the creation FORCE did have INTELLIGENCE though and was THE LIFE FORCE).

There is only a need FOR US who have scriptures (like the Romans) to worship according to what we subscribe to.

Act 9:2 so that if he found any belonging to the Way,

Jhn 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father, but by me.

Act 11:26 and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians.
---faithforfaith on 4/20/16


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Agreed Kathr you have an excellent and true point. Thank you.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/16


Everybody here has things wrong. The word "POPE" comes from the Latin Papa, meaning father. It has been used as a term of endearment for centuries.

Christ did not command this, true, but it became a term of love for the Bishop of Rome.

Alexandria also has a bishop called Pope, but when the custom came about, it was a very Roman city. Hence, their bishop is also called Pope.

Peter himself went to Rome, and, because there was no bishop there, he became bishop by default.

That means that we can call Peter the first Pope, even though "pope" had not yet been coined.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/19/16


There is no such thing as a POPE in the True Church. Peter wasn't even considered head of the Council in Jerusalem...James was. Nor does Peter ever make such a claim of Himself. If Peter was the KNOW ALL between man and God, he never would have said PAUL knows things that are hard to understand. And those who wrestle against those truths are wrestling against God.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/16


Yes I know the difference.

But go ahead and tell me what you say it means. It never hurts for me to learn from you.

But one doctrine that the RCC taught is the Peter was the first Pope and established only the RCC. That the Orthodox in the Great Schism left the true church and failed to follow the only Bishop who stands for the only way of Salvation. The Pope.

Some of the pope's proper titles, according to the Vatican's website, is Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, and Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church.

Do you agree with that doctrine?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/18/16


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\\But if you claim to follow the Apostles then all your doctrine must match what is written in scripture. \\

Discipline is not the same as doctrine.

Or can you tell the difference?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/18/16


Jesus Christ is the Chruch. He is head of the church. HE IS the CHIEF CORNER STONE of the church, so says Peter in Peter's epistles. We are built upon the CHIEF CORNER STONE, who is Jesus Christ. The Chief Corner Stone of any building IS THE VERY foundation itself the building is built upon.

Peter understood this, and never once taught he was the foundation, but a little rock like you and I built upon the Chief Corner stone.
---kathr4453 on 4/18/16


///Leon, Yes I have, but what makes you think you are not one of the weeds he tells his angels to gather them in bundle to burn. Just because you think you are a 'true born again believer!---Ruben on 4/16/16///

Ruben: You're such a judgmental little "devil", but you don't seem to see the error of your ways. Howbeit?!!!
---Leon on 4/17/16


Ruben: One thing I'm certain of is your being full of the devil. How do you think that's going to work out for you?
---Leon on 4/16/16

Leon,

On another blog, I ask if you think I am a born again believer, you said it was between God and I, but here you are knowing I am full of the devil. Isn't there a scripture verse that says ' Take the speck out of your eye first before you tell someone you have a speck in your eye'. Have you look in the mirror lately?
---Ruben on 4/17/16


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I'm not concerned about clothing.

But if you claim to follow the Apostles then all your doctrine must match what is written in scripture.

Written scripture is the doctrine of the Apostles. So if a doctrine is opposed to what is written then it is a false doctrine.

The Apostles also used the Old Testament as an authority on what is truth.

2Timothy 3:15,16
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/16


//Apparently you've not read Acts 2 very carefully.//
My young friend, I have studied Acts 2 very carefully.
Acts 3:21 tells you what Peter preached.
If the mystery was in prophecy it ceases being a mystery.
This is the foundation of rightly dividing the word of truth, and the only way to keep from denying the secret nature of the mystery.
To Paul was revealed the mystery of Christs headship in heaven with one body called the church united to him freely by Gods grace through Christs death, blood, and resurrection.
This mystery of Christ is not found in prophecy.
Something revealed since the world began until Paul, can't be the mystery of Christ revealed first to Paul.(Eph 5:32)
Study to show yourself approved
---michael_e on 4/17/16


Ruben: One thing I'm certain of is your being full of the devil. How do you think that's going to work out for you?
---Leon on 4/16/16


Michael e, you are correct most people are clueless regarding the mystery.

I believe this is because of some reason, most churches avoid teaching/preaching about the mystery.
---Rob on 4/17/16


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On one of these blogs, someone referred to an 18th century Baptist preacher named John Gill.

Guess what contemporary portraits show him wearing?

Cassock (or possibly Geneva gown--they were very similar back then--and preaching tabs.

EXACTLY what KarenD would call a "costume".

BTW, since neither the Bible nor your denomination says anything about Christian clerical attire, why are YOU making an issue of it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/17/16


\\Peter preached nothing at Pentecost concerning the mystery of Christ. \\

Apparently you've not read Acts 2 very carefully.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/17/16


The church in Jerusalem under law doesn't align with the boC.
Peter preached nothing at Pentecost concerning the mystery of Christ.
The boC operates according to the mystery of Christ (Eph 5:32, 1 Cor 2:7, Rom 16:25).
Acts 2 disciples sold possessions (Acts 2:44-45), continued temple worship (Acts 3:1), ministered to Israel only (Acts 2:22, 3:12), Their message changed, slightly, no mystery hidden from ages past (Col 1:26).
When God revealed the mystery concerning Christ and His church to Paul, the church ministry began, and the pattern and origin of the church today. (Col 1:25-26)
Confusion over church origin can be attributed to the ignorance of the mystery of Christ and His church revealed to Paul.
---michael_e on 4/16/16


Ruben: Today's church is located world-wide. Have you not read the parable of the wheat & tares wherein God allows them to grow together until the day of harvest.
---Leon on 4/16/16

Leon,

Yes I have, but what makes you think you are not one of the weeds he tells his angels to gather them in bundle to burn. Just because you think you are a 'true born again believer!
---Ruben on 4/16/16


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KarenD said, " No scripture directs monks...to put on costumes to show the world who they are...Jesus and the disciples did not carry statues around... In fact, the church in Jesus time was very simple and humble."

The Church in Jesus time did not exist! The Church was not born until the Holy Spirit fell on the 120 at Pentecost.

The cassock that I wear looks a whole lot more like what Jesus and the Apostles wore than anything you wear today. Or did you think that the Church was just a bunch of guys that sat around in T-shirts and jeans singing Kum-Ba-Ya?

I don't carry statues around either! I have enough problems without having to lug around a big stone statue as well as cassock, riasa, klobuk, and my cane.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/16/16


Clint....My pastor sometimes wears a suit, sometimes slacks, sometimes jeans. There is no required dress code for pastors in the Bible or our denomination.
---KarenD on 4/16/16


Leon asked, " Monk: Can you credibly show that the RCC/EOC has been around since Pentecost?"

Yes I can. St. Ignatius of Antioch knew Jesus Christ personally, and was a disciple of St. John.

To make sure that the apostles teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic successionhis own generation, Timothys generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.

I can go on--and on--and on, but I will run out of space.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/16/16


\\No scripture directs monks or priests to put on costumes to show the world who they are. \\

I'll bet the cassock an Orthodox or Roman Catholic priest or monk wears looks a whole lot more like what Jesus and the apostles wore than a 3 piece suit.

What does your pastor wear?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/16/16


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No scripture directs monks or priests to put on costumes to show the world who they are. That in itself shows that Catholic and Orthodox are nothing similar to the church Jesus set up. Jesus and the disciples did not carry statues around either. In fact, the church in Jesus time was very simple and humble.
---KarenD on 4/16/16


Monk: Can you credibly show that the RCC/EOC has been around since Pentecost?

"Multitude" means a large number. In comparison to the number 12, for example, 120 is a relatively large number. Just curious, is English your native language?

Ruben: Today's church is located world-wide. Have you not read the parable of the wheat & tares wherein God allows them to grow together until the day of harvest.
---Leon on 4/16/16


The Church began in Jerusalem ( not Rome) on the day of Pentecost. From there Peter & the other Holy Ghost filled believers spread the gospel...
---Leon on 4/15/16

Leon,

And said as you did " The gates of hell not prevail over it" so where is this Church today? Do you say it is the Born again believers, but not by name only? Where in scripture does it say not all born again believers have to believe in the same scripture verse?
---Ruben on 4/16/16


From there Peter & the other Holy Ghost filled believers spread the gospel...
---Leon on 4/15/16

Leon,

Did Peter, Paul, James and Timothy and others preach a different gospel. Yet today so many here on this blog teach a different gospel?

And worse of all, they say theirs is the correct gospel!!
---Ruben on 4/16/16


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Leon said, " Once again Monk seems to think the EOC/RCC is the begin all & be all of the Church of Jesus Christ. BUT, Jesus said, "I will build MY CHURCH & the gates of hell will not prevail against it."

Is there any other Christian Church that can show CREDIBLE authority that it has been around since the Church was born in Jerusalem?

If so, (simple question) could you please tell me who they are, and point me to their documentation?
---Monk_Brendan on 4/16/16


Leon said, "Jesus began "His church" from His original apostles... & multitudes"

Multitudes? Acts 1:15 says, "And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) since when is 120 a multitude? Merriam Webster defines multitude as:

1: the state of being many
2: a great number : host
3: a great number of people
4: populace, public

120 is far from being a great number of people, or a host of people.

Let's not get so caught up in rhetoric that you get pulled into error yourself, Leon.

I know I'm picking nits, but I am concerned for you, and your soul.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/16/16


Jnstead of "Who is the original church?" how about "Who originated the church?" Once again Monk seems to think the EOC/RCC is the begin all & be all of the Church of Jesus Christ. BUT, Jesus said, "I will build MY CHURCH & the gates of hell will not prevail against it." Such gates are designed to take in (deceive) & entrap those who enter therein. Jesus began "His church" from His original apostles (including Judas' replacement & later Paul) & multitudes of other disciples (men & women) who gathered in the upper room. The Church began in Jerusalem ( not Rome) on the day of Pentecost. From there Peter & the other Holy Ghost filled believers spread the gospel...
---Leon on 4/15/16


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