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Immortal Soul After Death

The Soul After Death

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches have always taught that the soul (mind, will and emotions) of a person is immortal. Now if the soul is immortal, what happens to it after death, but before the resurrection?

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 4/17/16
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Monk, who said anything about NOW. I asked the question in general. In the 8 the century they were shaped like a CONE, with a crown around the bottom. It represented AUTHORITY AND WORLDLY GLORY. the only one with AUTHORITY Is God.
Now the lesser level of authority and rank is the miter. The miter was only worn by the OT priesthood. Miters are still in use are they not. And the Papal crown showed the highest authority of all. No apostle wore a miter, as we both agree, the OT priesthood was done away in Christ. At least Pope John saw the light that he was NOT the authority of the church in heaven or on earth.
---kathr4454 on 5/2/16


Dear kathr4453

You do think it literal. As I pointed out there would have to be physical bodies for it to work. Also the Spirit and the Soul are not the same thing. Do you have any proof it is?

Abraham's bosom was an idiom like cats and dogs. How can millions of people be on one man's chest?

In the Old Testament all went to Hades or Sheol. Hades is Greek for their place of the dead and the name of the god of hell. So you are using it as the pagans do. Sheol is also translated grave. That is why the Jews believed in the Resurrection. Not an intangible soul like the Greeks.

Jesus was GOD. So He cannot die like regular men. The Bible says the wicked are destroyed. You posted that verse. Why do you say that is a lie.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/2/16


Kathr has accused me of being contentious, and of using sarcasm.

Here are just a few of her lies and sarcastic comments (spelling mistakes and all):

Oh but I see clunky, you made up some excuse for that.

To sneer and post sarcasm to those who KNOW they are saved, because God is not a LIAR, who believe they are saved by GRACE

The WORD Sacriments is NOT in the Bible. Only YOUR definition of Sacriments is.

Cluny, Your last post was bazaar. You love taking the heat off by posting someone's misspelled word, just like Monk does.

Quite a collection of rants!
---Monk_Brendan on 5/2/16


Kathr said, " And those Conehead crowns....you THINK the Levites wore, so you IMMITATE the OT Priesthood???"

First of all, Kathr, the Levitical priesthood died when they crucified Christ on the Cross. There is no remainder of it anyplace in the world!

Second, if you are referring to the Papal Tiara, that was retired by Paul VI, four popes ago.

Do pay attention to current events
---Monk_Brendan on 5/2/16


\\I think she's referring to the very tall mitres, that resemble headgear designed, not for normal human beings, but rather, for the Coneheads (aliens featured on Saturday Night Live, ...\\

1. Orthodox don't use that type of mitre.

2. The very tall mitres are presently not used in the Latin Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/2/16




Cluny:

You wrote: I don't know "conehead crowns" you are talking about. Do you know yourself?

I think she's referring to the very tall mitres, that resemble headgear designed, not for normal human beings, but rather, for the Coneheads (aliens featured on Saturday Night Live, and later in a movie of their own, who had extremely elongated heads resembling long cones).
---StrongAxe on 5/2/16


All the grace we will ever need is received the moment we trust Jesus, by faith, as Savior (Ephesians 2:8-9). The saving grace that is granted at the moment of genuine faith is the only saving grace Gods Word calls on us to receive. This grace is received by faith, not by observing rituals. So, the concept of the seven sacraments as conferring sanctifying grace is completely unbiblical.

We are sanctified through the Body of Christ once and for all. The man who died next to Jesus was not baptized, nor took communion. Although these two things are Biblical ,it in no way secures salvation or even has the power to sanctify you. Man cannot sanctify himself through works. Self sanctification is a 6. Self justification is a 6.
---kathr453 on 5/2/16


kathr, the Sacraments are in the Bible.

Baptism, which you mentioned, is one.

I don't know "conehead crowns" you are talking about. Do you know yourself?

I've told you over and over that I am ORTHODOX, not Roman Catholic, and we don't believe in Purgatory (see the proper spelling). Do you have the mind to grasp that?

I've dealt with "Mother of God" elsewhere in a reply to you.

And the pre-reformation ministry of bishops, presbyters, and deacons is NOT the same thing as the Old Testament priesthood.

But I explained that elsewhere, too.

And YOU have not explained why YOU say things are in the Bible that are in fact, not.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/16


Kathyr you missed my last post. And from the other blog. I was using the work punch as it is in the idiom. Not literal.

GOD bless and keep you.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/1/16


Cluny, Your last post was bazaar. You love taking the heat off by posting someone's misspelled word, just like Monk does. Maybe all you both know is correct spelling, but it appears that may be it. Or do you think misspelled words is posting things not in scripture? Who knows how your mind works Clunky.

Mother of God
pergetory
Sacraments
Infant baptism

Shall I go on?

And those Conehead crowns....you THINK the Levites wore, so you IMMITATE the OT Priesthood???

Cluny, I don't make thing up not in scripture. YOU just don't know scripture. Hebrews shows Jesus DID AWAY with the OT priesthood.

The Lord will forgive my misspellings and words with same definitions. But FALSE DOCTRINE....NEVER.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/16




\\Cluny, that is not even the correct translation. "Meet" should be translated as "fitting." As in a help fitting for you.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/30/16\\

Like I was saying.....

Oh but I see clunky, you made up some excuse for that. The point is, everyone KNEW what help meet- help mate meant when you said it, and it needed NO post in the first place to correct you. Or an additional post from you to wiggle out of the correction by saying it was intentional, and that ONLY Monk would get the inside joke?????? What a load. The MEANING did not change...except maybe to you both. And the discussion did not lend itself to any inside joke either between you two.
---kathr453 on 5/1/16


Monk, my point was your comments were UNWORTHY of your TITLE.

To sneer and post sarcasm to those who KNOW they are saved, because God is not a LIAR, who believe they are saved by GRACE through faith....NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST, was actually beneath YOU. And beneath God. When you have been crucified with Christ and raised a NEW CREATURE, and know you are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, being sanctified once and for all through the Body of Christ, AND BELIEVE IT, it's called ..taking God at HIS WORD, who cannot lie. So You doubt God's Word? I don't.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/16


kathr, you make up things that are NOWHERE in the Bible--

Yet you say that Monk Brendan is contentious.

Does this make sense, class?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/30/16


Dear kathr4453

You do think it literal. As I pointed out there would have to be physical bodies for it to work. Also the Spirit and the Soul are not the same thing. Do you have any proof it is?

Abraham's bosom was an idiom like cats and dogs. How can millions of people be on one man's chest?

In the Old Testament all went to Hades or Sheol. Hades is Greek for their place of the dead and the name of the god of hell. So you are using it as the pagans do. Sheol is also translated grave. That is why the Jews believed in the Resurrection. Not an intangible soul like the Greeks.

Jesus was GOD. So He cannot die like regular men. The Bible says the wicked are destroyed. You posted that verse. Why do you say that is a lie?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/30/16


Ditto Kathr: I've for quite some time suspected (discerned) there was something dead fishy wrong about this alleged "monk" person.
---Leon on 4/30/16


Kathr said, "Monk, are Monks always so contentious, or just you?"

Actually, I'm rather mild. There are some monks I know that wouldn't let a Catholic into an Orthodox shrine.

"Are you REALLY a monk, or do you think giving yourself that title here gives you an edge over others?"

Kathr, that is unworthy of you! I am ashamed. Are you called to judge a man who says he is a Christian just because of his title? How dare you make God's Word of no repute? Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.(KJV)

I AM your neighbor, and profaning God's Word like that should be beneath ANY Christian!
---Monk_Brendan on 4/30/16


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Samuel, I believe the teaching of Jesus in Luke , is literal. Abraham's bosom was just another name for Paradise. Just as Sheol, Hades, hell are all the same place. A PLACE where the departed go after death if not saved. There would be no such place spoken of through out OT and New if it did not exist. Jesus went to paradise/ Abraham's bosom for 3 day, and the man who died next to Him was there as well. If nothing exists of the soul, where did Jesus go for 3 days. Remember His body stayed in the tomb. HIs soul and spirit departed from His dead body. HIs SOUL went into the belly of the earth,... God did not LEAVE His SOUL THERE. If it ceased to exist, there was nothing to LEAVE THERE, and there would be no such thing as THERE.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/16


Job 23:10
10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.......(not wood hay or stubble). will any GOLD be in hell?

Monk, are Monks always so contentious, or just you? Are you REALLY a monk, or do you think giving yourself that title here gives you an edge over others? Whatever the case Monk, not all here hold to your doctrine. I believe that is WHY there was a reformation.

I realize the RCC believes they have to WORK for their salvation, and do not believe we are saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH in the FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST.
We are HIS workmanship Monk. When you understand that....that envy and hate will no longer be in your heart...AND SOUL.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/16


good point Kathyr about reading the whole context.

I like the story the Harrowing of Hell. But it is a story and not true.

On the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. All the dead cannot lay down on one man's chest. A soul which has no substance cannot touch water, nor would a drop of water help a man being constantly on fire. People on fire cannot talk. So this story is to prove a point. That the leaders would deny all evidence even a man who was resurrected.

Which is what happened when Jesus resurrected Lazarus and the leaders still refused to believe.

Humans are mortal and have to be resurrected from the dead. Our works are tested in the Judgement.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/30/16


\\"Today I KNOW I'm saved. Just as Abraham also knew he was and those who were the "just" in the OT, who waited in Abraham's bosom."\\

Please give ONE verse from the Bible that proves that Abraham knew he was saved.

I shall await with interest and just be holding my breath.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/30/16


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I certainly would appreciate it if anyone could explain "PURGATORY" from Scripture. Just what is purgatory? Thanks.
---Leon on 4/29/16


1 Peter 3:19-20By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Like I said Cluny, verse 20 continues on from verse 19. There are several interpretations of the meaning of these verses. Some believe Jesus preached through Noah, as Jesus wasn't in hell at the time of the flood.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/16


Now, if there is a place where a person's WORKS are tested, and the wood hay and stubble are burned off by fire, where is that place of testing?

BTW, the word is spelled "PURGATORY"!
---Monk_Brendan on 4/29/16

monk, the place of testing is here and now....James 1. It is not in PURGATORY. THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE. Jesus baptized us with FIRE that burns away the chaff, as 1 Peter 3-4 tell us this is the fellowship of His sufferings...NOW.
---kathr453 on 4/29/16


Kathr said, "Today I KNOW I'm saved. Just as Abraham also knew he was and those who were the "just" in the OT, who waited in Abraham's bosom."

And just how do you know? a warm fuzzy feeling that touches you deep in your emotions? The thrill you get listening to a great sermon?

These are you ears being tickled, and not God's salvation at work in your heart. Here is what Paul says to the Philipians: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/29/16


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1 Cor 3:13-15 says "13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

Now, if there is a place where a person's WORKS are tested, and the wood hay and stubble are burned off by fire, where is that place of testing?

BTW, the word is spelled "PURGATORY"!
---Monk_Brendan on 4/29/16


Are these verses from 1 Peter 3 not in your Bible, kathr?

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/28/16


Monk, I believe 1Peter 3:19-20 may help explain your verse in 1 Peter 4:6. Correct me if I'm wrong, but some of you all do believe in pergetory correct, and that after a certain time one can get out and go to heaven? If that is what you believe, or someone who may believe that may have taught you Jesus gave dead souls a second chance. Maybe that is where the RCC believes in pergetory in the first place.

So we can agree the soul is still aware after it leaves the body, but we will have to agree to disagree as to exactly what 1peter 4:6 means. The only backup scripture to that is 1peter 3:19-20...which some interpret as the preaching of Noah.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/16


Before Jesus rose from the dead, He went to Hades, and preached the Good News to all of the captives, including Adam and Eve. That is when their salvation happened, and not before.///

Again Monk....Wrong. Nowhere does scripture say Jesus preached THE GOOD NEWS to all the captives. There are no second chances after death Monk. We don't know what Jesus said....possibly those in the bad part of Hades, and not Abraham's bosom, were told they were without excuse. We also see in Luke the division of the just and unjust.

Today I KNOW I'm saved. Just as Abraham also knew he was and those who were the "just" in the OT, who waited in Abraham's bosom.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/16


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Kathr said, "Wrong Monk. So totally wrong. First YOU don't know if Adam and Eve were judged sinners sentenced to hell, second NO judgement has taken place yet. Third, God covered Adam and Eve in Animal skins, representing salvation, and through their FAITH, Abel believed and obeyed, showing he too was an heir of the righteousness that comes by FAITH. Hebrews 11."

Before Jesus rose from the dead, He went to Hades, and preached the Good News to all of the captives, including Adam and Eve. That is when their salvation happened, and not before.

Besides, read Luke 16:16-31. Jesus does not refer to this as a parable. That is proof of the immortality of the soul
---Monk_Brendan on 4/28/16


Ditto Kathr 1000%. Monk's assumption(s) are way off concerning Bible truth & reality.
---Leon on 4/28/16


After Adam died, his soul went before the Judgment Seat, where he was judged a sinner, and went to hell.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/27/16


Wrong Monk. So totally wrong. First YOU don't know if Adam and Eve were judged sinners sentenced to hell, second NO judgement has taken place yet. Third, God covered Adam and Eve in Animal skins, representing salvation, and through their FAITH, Abel believed and obeyed, showing he too was an heir of the righteousness that comes by FAITH. Hebrews 11.

Neither the Judgement seat of Christ OR the Great White Throne Judgement has taken place yet.

But that WASN'T what I was asking to begin with.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/16


Brendan: "After Adam died, his soul went before the Judgment Seat, where he was judged a sinner, and went to hell."

Where do you find that in the Bible? You don't. That doctrine (the immortality of the soul) is a holdover from pagan spiritualism.

The Bible says that the soul is a composite of the body and the breath of life (no body = no soul). It says that the dead know not anything, and that immortality is not inherent, but is "put on" at the resurrection at the "last day". Only God is immortal. The NT says that King David (a man greatly loved by God) is not ascended into heaven, but is still in the grave.



---jerry6593 on 4/28/16


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Kathr said, " Let's take something for an example. God told Adam and Eve if they ate from a certain tree they would die. Ok so they did, and immediately something happened...what? "

But they did die! Not right away, it was some 900 years later. But they died!

After Adam died, his soul went before the Judgment Seat, where he was judged a sinner, and went to hell.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/27/16


Let's take something for an example. God told Adam and Eve if they ate from a certain tree they would die. Ok so they did, and immediately something happened...what? Was it a spiritual death? Or did the soul die when they sinned? YEt the soul is still with the body. NOW let's say they ate from the tree of life AFTER THEY SINNED? Remember God removed them from the Garden so that they would not eat and LIVE FOREVER? They would have become IMMORTAL in a sinful state forever. What part of them would have become immortal? Body and soul, or just body? A body WITHOUT A SOUL????? Or the soul also?
---kathr4453 on 4/27/16


Jerry said, "What is the difference between the fundamentals of spiritualism and those of belief in the immortality of the non-corporeal soul?"

The difference is that I do not bow down and worship satan, nor do I try to conjure up spirits of the dead.

Spiritualism is the process of trying to conjure up dead people. Read 1 Sam 28:7-20

The immortal soul is quite different. It is the mind, will, and emotions of the person, and when the person dies, the soul goes to stand before the Lord for Judgment.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/27/16


So, if we put in immortality, God is unable to destroy us?
---micha9344 on 4/27/16


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Mat_10:28

God can destroy a soul, so it is not immortal.
---aservant on 4/27/16








I still have a (yet unanswered) question:

What is the difference between the fundamentals of spiritualism and those of belief in the immortality of the non-corporeal soul?



---jerry6593 on 4/27/16


Samuel said, "In context the passages are about the physically dead."

Pay attention to the title of the blog. It is about the soul AFTER death. I am talking about the soul after the body has died.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/26/16


Many top scientists are Atheists so you cannot say if they are alive they know nothing. Also read the context. They are dead and buried. you don't bury people who are still alive.

Yes you are correct there is physical and spiritual death.

In context the passages are about the physically dead.

Luke 9:60 is a rebuke since the way it is spoken means his father is still alive. The man wanted his dad to die before he could follow Jesus.

Read any good commentary.

Why doesn't destroy mean destroy?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/25/16


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Samuel, I did on another blog just like this one. I also don't believe these verses are teaching the condition of the afterlife, but the condition of wicked men in general. The wicked who are still alive and breathing also don't praise God, and also know nothing. Jesus referred to the Pharisees as dead man's bones, yet they weren't dead. So DEAD, in scripture has many meanings, and we need to be careful to make these distinctions. Dead also means separation from God in some instances, yet TODAY, Christians are said to be DEAD TO THE WORLD.
Before we were saved we were all DEAD IN TRESSPASSES AND SIN. But we weren't physically dead.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/16


Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Samuel, here we have a great example of the many meanings of DEAD. If it only had one meaning, it would still show a dead person able to move around with a shovel actively digging a hole. We know that isn't so. All unrighteous were/ are referred to as DEAD, as Jesus points out here, even though their physical bodies were/ are alive.
---kathr453 on 4/25/16


Earl I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Katyr why don't you ever explain why the Bible verses I post which are contrary to your understanding. Why they are wrong. You stated the Bible doesn't contradict itself. Yet your points say it does. So please explain these verses.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psalms 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Nor are soul blobs. We are living souls. A combination as the body says body plus spirit.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/16


If the spirit is not present with the body the individual's body is dead and will decay.
At resurrection when the spirit and a new body join up the individual reawakens.
Someone has to carry the soul to the resurrection. We are dead so someone has to do it for us.If we are not given a new body we cannot have our souls back.The person reading the book of life will have our name erased.
There is no book of the dead after judgement because a body without a spirit is again dead if we don't get a new body.
This would cause permanent life disruption,thus one is
destroyed.
A new heaven and Earth does not harbor living sinners,that would be unclean.
---Earl on 4/24/16


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Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. SDA's say WE jump to the wrong conclusion that this is a reference to righteous souls going to heaven.


Hebrews 12:22-But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,23 To the general assembly line and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The Spirits of JUST MEN MADE PERFECT. Here we have individual identity of JUST MEN/ SOULS. ( the MEN part cannot be their physical bodies)There is no spirit BLOB floating around heaven.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/16


James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The Spirit is sometimes called the breath of life. As in Genesis.

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

The word there for breath is also the same word of spirit.

Only GOD is immortal.

1Timothy 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

What does these verse mean. Also if the soul cannot be destroyed. Then how will GOD destroy them.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/23/16


Cluny,
Who is the "nobody" you speak of ?
That is yall jump on my wagon tactic to discredit.
Are you saying it takes approval from the ones who are in greater spiritual standing with God to get approval to give a "good angel" recognition?
Is not my interpretation correct?
---Earl on 4/23/16


Earl, nobody derives any doctrine from Origen, as 15 of his major propositions were condemned by an Ecumenical Council.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/23/16


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Aservant said, " Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

But there is no MAN that can destroy the soul. Only God can do that, and it is right to fear Him.

And yes, He can destroy your soul while you are burning in hell just as easily as He can anyplace else.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/23/16


Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
---aservant on 4/23/16


I thought this would be a productive examination of the gap between the first death and resurrection and who guards the soul as Monk asked above in his question .I guess not.
---Earl on 4/23/16


Monk,P1
Origen wrote,"each one of us even to the least who are in the church of God has a good angel,an angel of the Lord who guides ,warns and governs.
After centuries have passed the good angel became popularized as the Guardian Angel .
When we die we possess nothing of ourselves.All that we did possess was on loan-temporary.
If we are not blotted out of the book of Life then we get everything thats not flesh and blood back.
Someone has to carry who we are to judgement because our flesh is dead and we are unconscious.
The power to get us to roll call is not ours.Someone has to do it for us.We are at the 1st death stage and when the Book is read the guardian angel will speak for us.
---Earl on 4/22/16


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Earl said, " After the roll call there is the second death for those who have been taken off the book"

I'm not going to argue about phrases. But the Bible clearly states that Jesus said, Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matt 25:41 KJV)

There is no second death. If you die in your sins, you will end up in hell, whether yo stand before God in ten minutes, or the Tribulation happens, you survive, and then are judged at the Great and Final Judgment, you still end up in hell.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/22/16


Monk,P2
The soul that that is in us is actually the guardian angel who is our keeper of it.
Hence the good angel is an immortal soul.
So there is no death between the first death and judgement.
If we get through judgement the soul continues immortal as we then will become.
These personal guardians are trustees of mind,memory and soul.
To those who have their names blotted out is a different story.
---Earl on 4/22/16


Earl pointed me to Ps 22:29.

The quote is: "All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul." (KJV)

Earl, by yourself, can you do anything? Can you continue to breathe if God doesn't want that to happen? By ourselves, we cannot keep our soul alive, true. But God's love does keep our souls alive, even if we have been dead for 500 years or longer. This is what I have been talking about all along.

I have learned that I have to trust God for every breath, every function. It took me a while to learn this, and it was a painful lesson. But now I do, and I thank God for everything, every day
---Monk_Brendan on 4/22/16


Monk, if you will answer I get started. Cluny, can you sit in the waiting section for a bit please sir ?Thanks .I'm waiting on Monk to show up .
---Earl on 4/22/16


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\\In this new direction its based on it partly and based on a third century revelation from a catholic person as I understand it.\\

If it were 3rd century--that is, the 200s--the person was ORTHODOX.

Now, what was said?

Glory to Jesus Christ!!
---Cluny on 4/22/16


Monk, don't leave just yet. One of your catholic church ancestors received a valuable revelation related to this topic that I would like to speak about. At this point I will purposely retract my statement ," I do not believe the soul is immortal "in my first post because it is based on a biblical only stance .In this new direction its based on it partly and based on a third century revelation from a catholic person as I understand it.
---Earl on 4/22/16


Monk Brendan.In the Trinity there are three persons.

Humans are one Person. When the Spirit leaves the body is dead.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The Spirit is sometimes called the breath of life. As in Genesis.

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

The word there for breath is also the same word of spirit.

Only GOD is immortal.

1Timothy 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/16


Monk,
I appreciate a your post .It is most understanding and without darts and arrows.
However the soul as I said earlier is not definitive using the Bible.
I am not going to write a chapter paper on this subject but just one verse to prove there remains biblical confusion.
Ps.22.29
"All they that ------and none can keep alive his own soul."
This person understood the soul can die.
What's your interpretation on it.
I'm not asking you to believe this,just saying.
---Earl on 4/21/16


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\\Clung, Have you not heard the song when the roll is called up yonder?It Is the formality of the judgement of the just and the unjust \\

Protestant hymns are not scripture.

What you're admitting is that you believe something that is NOWHERE in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/21/16


Earl said, "...After the roll call there is the second death for those who have been taken off the book . But I differ about the soul.

Okay, Earl, we can agree to disagree. However, if you have solid Biblical proof that the soul dies, let me know.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/21/16


Clung, Have you not heard the song when the roll is called up yonder?It Is the formality of the judgement of the just and the unjust . Was I supposed to answer you before Monk ? Did not know that . However I part ways with the teaching that the ones at roll call or judgement are resurected before the roll call . Our name must be called to awaken us . This tangent is getting away from Monk's space between death and resurection.
---Earl on 4/21/16


Second time, Earl.

What's this "roll call" you're talking about?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/21/16


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Monk, I do agree that the individual after the first death shall not perish between then and the roll call . After the roll call there is the second death for those who have been taken off the book . But I differ about the soul
---Earl on 4/21/16


As God is made up of three Persons, and as Man is made up of body, soul, and spirit, the soul of a person is made up of three things: Mind, Will, and Emotions.

From the time of conception, a human has body, soul, and spirit (not developed, but still in existence). These things are created by God (along with the cooperation of the parents.) When a person dies, his body begins to decay. However the soul and spirit are immortal, and continue to have existence, waiting for the Resurrection of the body.
---Monk_Brendan on 4/21/16


\\but this was after the roll call\\

What roll call, Earl?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/21/16


We do know immediately after resurrection (unknown space of time ) that John saw a undetermined number of individuals appear on the sea of glass .but this was after the roll call. But this does not help knowing the space of time after their first death.
---Earl on 4/20/16


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Good point Strong Ax and Earl.

Cluny your argument follows conditionalism. Those who have Jesus have eternal life. Those who don't will be destroyed in hell and cease to exist.

So Cluny your point is also correct.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/16


Definitions do as well as understanding change with increased insight The focus has diverted to the understanding of a soul rather than the pause between death and resurrection. But understanding the soul must come first .Remember the soul that sinneth it shall die .True or untrue
---Earl on 4/19/16


A search for "soul" and "destroy" comes up with many scriptures that mention that souls can be destroyed, but the most obvious one is Matthew 10:28:
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

If a soul can be destroyed, it can't be immortal.

One can always argue that "what we mean by 'soul' today isn't the same as what the bible meant", but if so, why change the meaning of a word just to create confusion?
---StrongAxe on 4/18/16


I would like to point out that the human soul is not immortal on its own, but only because God wills to keep it alive.

This is to be carefully distinguished from the Greek pagan idea (such as in Plato) that souls are eternal.

Only God is eternal.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/18/16


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Well Earl I appreciate your view. But I agree more with josef.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
1Corithians 15:16-18 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/18/16


A soul by definition is a living breathing sentient being, and this being is mortal until granted immortality. However, In order to clarify my perspective and belief concerning the state of the soul at death, I must first explain my understanding of the term. I understand the soul to be mans conscious state of being alive and aware of his being, figuratively representing his sense of self, both physically and mentally, encompassing mind-intellect, and thought process, will-deliberate action, purpose or direction, and emotions-reflexive or spontaneous instincts. With this understanding in mind, "the soul" is at death, as it is in deep sleep, totally void of all consciousness and/or awareness.
---josef on 4/18/16


Monk,
Great question.
However from the Bible the soul is loosely defined from my view point.
I cannot say the soul is immortal.There is the second death to consider.
However the pause between physical death and awakening at roll call may just be a figurative silence in a figurative moment of time for the individual.Like going to sleep and re awakening in a dream that is real.The Bible is inconclusive.
---Earl on 4/18/16


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